I'm dying to give the answer, but I should wait for Rocky and Oldskool to have a chance at it.
Excuses. excuses.
Why didn't you say that a few hours ago, when you were first asked the question and refuse to answer and then went into your you need to learn diatribe?
The bottom line of love for a human means to love their words and ultimately their will.
So in order to love somebody with agape love that is hungry, physically starving to death then to love them I should do their will...I mean God forbid if their will is to rob a bank so they don't starve...IGod forbid I would love them by giving them food and shelter or a job or whatever would actually help them and demonstrate God's agape love which is expressed as giving...so do I love peoples will and words when those will and words are sinful and contrary to God's will?
I'm dying to give the answer, but I should wait for Rocky and Oldskool to have a chance at it.
Dont wait on me, Im not really participating in this conversation because I have addressed you several times with points of consideration that youve ignored....talking with you in this context is like clapping with one hand...its all about you and Im not into feeding narcissisism. Most everyone of your posts are condescending and your choice of words indicate a disdain for people here that you have a prejudice against folks here because we reject your false prophet. So, again, don't wait on me....carry on sir.! Peace.
I am very reluctant to waste time, writing a long essay for someone who is trying to find targets to shoot at, and not understand my essay.
6 hours ago, Mike said:
Are you reluctant to respond to my answer, that loving a human strongly implies loving their words, SO THAT you can come to know and love their will?
6 hours ago, Mike said:
Yes, Rocky did. He didn't use the word essay, though, it was implied.
That seems to be exquisite projection. 1) No, I did not. 2) Had you not been projecting, you may have more fairly stated "I inferred it." Which would have been a legit "I" statement in that case. 3) We now don't have the gift of T-Bone's additional insight because, IIRC, he realized he went down the proverbial rabbit hole too often with his long-winded replies and essays. 4) Our friend OldSkool quite succinctly and eloquently answered the rhetorical question you posed about HOW does one love.
This is my projection: nobody wants to read your long-winded BS.
Hence, I try diligently to not make my comments TL:DR. Because I would rather not lose my readers if I can help it.
Do you think Jesus would have issued that great commandment for the people to love God if they didn't know how to love Him.
Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.
Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.
And Jesus did that on purpose....so is he unloving?...Mike...?
When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.
Deut 6:1-12 1These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.
7 Impress them on your children.
Talk about them when you sit at home
and when you walk along the road,
when you lie down and when you get up.
8 Tie them as symbols on your hands
and bind them on your foreheads.
9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses
and on your gates.
10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build,11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied,12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
*/*/*/*
Paraphrasing: You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.
And a little followup for us Christians with:
1 John 5:1-3 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...
When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.
Deut 6:1-12 1These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.
7 Impress them on your children.
Talk about them when you sit at home
and when you walk along the road,
when you lie down and when you get up.
8 Tie them as symbols on your hands
and bind them on your foreheads.
9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses
and on your gates.
10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build,11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied,12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
*/*/*/*
Paraphrasing: You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.
And a little followup for us Christians with:
1 John 5:1-3 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...
Just admit you don't have very much experience loving people and for you its all an intellectual pursuit where you pontificate this or that....all you doing is quoting scripture with little depth and scope behind the quotes...Its to be expected becacuse that was wierwille as well and you idolize him. Your arguments are not convincing at all and trying to take everything back to the Bible isn't working out to well for you. The Bible is a collection of books. Those books within the Bible's covers may or may not be scripture. You think God made Bibles? Its a sleight of hand to control who reads what...while the KJV Bible is fine and I use it daily it's not the end all be all. Not all scripture is within it's covers. More exhaustive canons contain books that are not scripture but are within the same binding.....dont you see? God is no bound within the pages of a Bible because its a man made construct and God is not limited in any fashion, though you frequently try and limitl the unlimited God.
Just admit you don't have very much experience loving people and for you its all an intellectual pursuit where you pontificate this or that....all you doing is quoting scripture with little depth and scope behind the quotes...Its to be expected because that was wierwille as well and you idolize him. Your arguments are not convincing at all and trying to take everything back to the Bible isn't working out to well for you. The Bible is a collection of books. Those books within the Bible's covers may or may not be scripture. You think God made Bibles? Its a sleight of hand to control who reads what...while the KJV Bible is fine and I use it daily it's not the end all be all. Not all scripture is within it's covers. More exhaustive canons contain books that are not scripture but are within the same binding.....dont you see? God is no bound within the pages of a Bible because its a man made construct and God is not limited in any fashion, though you frequently try and limit the unlimited God.
Do you really expect Mike to be able to cogently answer your question? Even if he tried, how would/could Mike credibly do so?
Expect? No, my expectations are pretty low. Whenever anyone asks mike a question that doesn't fit his narrative he ignores it...so...I expect more of the same really...but hey...he has a chance to at least...
I'll let the folks at home decide for themselves there.
I wonder how many of them were able to check Jesus' sources and find Deut. 6 by themselves.
It is likely that oldiesman and johniam would have gotten this little love quiz answered right and quick. It's just a no-brainer to check out where Jesus was quoting in the OT. I think I first did it my first year in the Word. No one showed me.
God told natural men of Israel to love God, and He told them how: become "Bible freaks."
In everyone's zeal to condemn me for doing what God commanded men to do long ago, and then calling it "biblio-idolatry," what we have here is a spectacular demonstration of group blindness.
If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.
Of course it is...you were asked relevant questions that you couldn't answer, so you became critical and now your shutting down. I've dealt with the same issues and it's from cult related damage....you should look into it.
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penworks
Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!)
waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
OldSkool
I dont see jeering and chatter I saw you completely shut down because you were confronted with uncomfortable truths that you are smart enough to recognize but deluded enough to rationalize them away.
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So_crates
Excuses. excuses.
Why didn't you say that a few hours ago, when you were first asked the question and refuse to answer and then went into your you need to learn diatribe?
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waysider
I would say nearly nonexistent. Sarcasm, condescension and feigned concern are not particularly good motivators.
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OldSkool
So in order to love somebody with agape love that is hungry, physically starving to death then to love them I should do their will...I mean God forbid if their will is to rob a bank so they don't starve...IGod forbid I would love them by giving them food and shelter or a job or whatever would actually help them and demonstrate God's agape love which is expressed as giving...so do I love peoples will and words when those will and words are sinful and contrary to God's will?
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OldSkool
Dont wait on me, Im not really participating in this conversation because I have addressed you several times with points of consideration that youve ignored....talking with you in this context is like clapping with one hand...its all about you and Im not into feeding narcissisism. Most everyone of your posts are condescending and your choice of words indicate a disdain for people here that you have a prejudice against folks here because we reject your false prophet. So, again, don't wait on me....carry on sir.! Peace.
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Rocky
That seems to be exquisite projection. 1) No, I did not. 2) Had you not been projecting, you may have more fairly stated "I inferred it." Which would have been a legit "I" statement in that case. 3) We now don't have the gift of T-Bone's additional insight because, IIRC, he realized he went down the proverbial rabbit hole too often with his long-winded replies and essays. 4) Our friend OldSkool quite succinctly and eloquently answered the rhetorical question you posed about HOW does one love.
This is my projection: nobody wants to read your long-winded BS.
Hence, I try diligently to not make my comments TL:DR. Because I would rather not lose my readers if I can help it.
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Rocky
Do you really think there's any question about Mike's credibility? I mean, REALLY???????
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Nathan_Jr
Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.
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Rocky
Further discussion, exposition of love is taking place on the new thread Charity has started.
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OldSkool
And Jesus did that on purpose....so is he unloving?...Mike...?
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Mike
(cue the orchestra)
THE ANSWER IS:
When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience.
Deut 6:1-12
1These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
3 Hear, Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, promised you.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.
7 Impress them on your children.
Talk about them when you sit at home
and when you walk along the road,
when you lie down and when you get up.
8 Tie them as symbols on your hands
and bind them on your foreheads.
9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses
and on your gates.
10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
*/*/*/*
Paraphrasing: You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.
And a little followup for us Christians with:
1 John 5:1-3
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome...
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OldSkool
Just admit you don't have very much experience loving people and for you its all an intellectual pursuit where you pontificate this or that....all you doing is quoting scripture with little depth and scope behind the quotes...Its to be expected becacuse that was wierwille as well and you idolize him. Your arguments are not convincing at all and trying to take everything back to the Bible isn't working out to well for you. The Bible is a collection of books. Those books within the Bible's covers may or may not be scripture. You think God made Bibles? Its a sleight of hand to control who reads what...while the KJV Bible is fine and I use it daily it's not the end all be all. Not all scripture is within it's covers. More exhaustive canons contain books that are not scripture but are within the same binding.....dont you see? God is no bound within the pages of a Bible because its a man made construct and God is not limited in any fashion, though you frequently try and limitl the unlimited God.
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Rocky
Looks to me like lashing out in frustration.
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Rocky
Do you really expect Mike to be able to cogently answer your question? Even if he tried, how would/could Mike credibly do so?
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OldSkool
Yeah, makes sense...good catch.
Expect? No, my expectations are pretty low. Whenever anyone asks mike a question that doesn't fit his narrative he ignores it...so...I expect more of the same really...but hey...he has a chance to at least...
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oldiesman
Yes. This is what I surmised in an earlier post, i.e. the written Word aids and helps and directs us to worship Him.
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Mike
LoL !
I'll let the folks at home decide for themselves there.
I wonder how many of them were able to check Jesus' sources and find Deut. 6 by themselves.
It is likely that oldiesman and johniam would have gotten this little love quiz answered right and quick. It's just a no-brainer to check out where Jesus was quoting in the OT. I think I first did it my first year in the Word. No one showed me.
Edited by MikeGod told natural men of Israel to love God, and He told them how: become "Bible freaks."
In everyone's zeal to condemn me for doing what God commanded men to do long ago, and then calling it "biblio-idolatry," what we have here is a spectacular demonstration of group blindness.
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Mike
Thank you sir.
It is pretty obvious, isn't it.
I mean, they all painted themselves into a corner on this one.
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OldSkool
Gloating in an assumed victory? Your true colors are showing. Nobody's even painting.
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Mike
No. I am just happy that THIS sub-topic is finished.
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OldSkool
Not finished, it's just that your the only one painting
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Mike
It is finished for me.
If anyone wants to make further fools of themselves entertaining the idea of bible-idolatry, have at it.
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OldSkool
Of course it is...you were asked relevant questions that you couldn't answer, so you became critical and now your shutting down. I've dealt with the same issues and it's from cult related damage....you should look into it.
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Rocky
So what you're fishing for is exterior validation, which you're not getting yet?
Why would you need to have anyone agree with you? Leaders don't generally need to beg for it.
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Rocky
Those are intriguing words to use. But are they the same as worshiping the book(s) (anthology)?
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