I simply think we were poorly and pathetically taught.
The Splinter Groups simply cannot admit they were taught wrong. Session One? Piffle.....what corrects wrong teaching? Hah! Right teaching. And, that ain't coming from The Way no matter the Era.
I also think that's why splinter groups keep splintering further and further into the Wild Blue Yonder: It appears to me that the Splinter Groups believe they were taught correctly, ALMOST, but, like a Cook, this needs more salt, hmmmm, some more of this, or that. Then, we'll have this Manifestions of the Spirit stuff cooking, our Walk by the Spirit, and the Word will move. Well, I'd love to see that, but, I doubt it.
Nope. Sorry. Your Foundation is a mess, IMO, designed poorly, and the exclusion of the Chief Cornerstone was a fundamental mistake. Go back. Make a course correction. Raze your building, and start over, or do some costly repair work. And, costly it will be, I assure you, but better.
................
Why do splinter groups keep splintering further and further into the Wild Blue Yonder?
Highly aggressive (narcissistic) cult individuals have NO other lanes to run in.....but the cult lane.
No credentials, no academic achievements, no professional experience......no desire to start at bottom rung.
Starting a splinter group.......keeps them from facing the reality of their pitiful, petty cult fantasy world.
Must cling to wierwille-brand......otherwise, they lose their base of renewed-mind (LOL) followers.
Splinter group leader........sets himself on payroll for life (if he can keep others paying tithes and jumping hoops).
The cult leaders are NOT going to "make a course correction".........why should they? They are self-serving.
False prophets/teachers......their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness.
"Splinter Groups" [False prophets and priests].......are nothing new, date back to the days of old.
Jeremiah chapter 23 gives an apt description of what the Lord God of Israel thinks about them.
"The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God."
TRANSLATION:
The Way Ministry is a pyramid scheme, where the top Pharaoh/Pharisee mandates policy, and the workers obey with daily tasks of servitude. The servant-follower obeys the chain-of-command by adhering to teachings, classes and home-group meetings of weekly conformity. The Way Group masks its coercion and cohesion by utilizing scripture and factions of pseudo-Christianity to entice new recruits. The deeper chambers of this pyramid reveal that all of these workers and their servitude is for the leisure, lust and longevity of the man-god ruling over them.
I find it incredulous that believers (cough, cough)....indoctrinated followers STILL are trapped in this mindset. Don't they read others books and material besides the wierwille books and class syllabi? Don't they have an independent thought that they can call their own? How rigid and boring it must be to go thru life having others dictate the boundaries of your existence (rut).
My life experience both in TWI and outside of it has shown me that there are many people that prefer to be led. That's why there are still so many people involved with TWI and all of the offshoots. They either don't want to, or don't know how to, do their own research. And I mean real research, not re-searching what was published by TWI or the offshoots. (That was such a stupid concept)
Several months ago I stepped away from R&R. I can't even bring myself to listen to the recorded teachings on their web site. Instead, a few of us just get together and actually research topics of interest to the group, or if one of us has been working on something and wants help with it then we do that together. The give and take is wonderful, and it is done without anyone having authority of any sort. Sometimes, we reach a consensus, and we leave there electrified!
I can honestly say of the 20+ years going to fellowship I never left feeling electrified.
My life experience both in TWI and outside of it has shown me that there are many people that prefer to be led. That's why there are still so many people involved with TWI and all of the offshoots. They either don't want to, or don't know how to, do their own research. And I mean real research, not re-searching what was published by TWI or the offshoots. (That was such a stupid concept)
Several months ago I stepped away from R&R. I can't even bring myself to listen to the recorded teachings on their web site. Instead, a few of us just get together and actually research topics of interest to the group, or if one of us has been working on something and wants help with it then we do that together. The give and take is wonderful, and it is done without anyone having authority of any sort. Sometimes, we reach a consensus, and we leave there electrified!
I can honestly say of the 20+ years going to fellowship I never left feeling electrified.
I agree, it seems quite apparent in many areas of society and culture that there are "plenty of people (who) prefer to be led." There are plenty of other examples in societies and cultures these days -- not limited to twi and offshoots thereof.
Bravo for you that you study and re-search bible stuff with a small group of friends.
A caveat I would add, that you probably have already thought of -- don't translate ANY of your re-search into dogmas that others must follow.
Further, perhaps you might find studying (and searching or re-searching) other, not necessarily limited to biblical, topics also electrifying. Some might also provide exciting insights into what might indirectly relate to "things of God."
Further, perhaps you might find studying (and searching or re-searching) other, not necessarily limited to biblical, topics also electrifying. Some might also provide exciting insights into what might indirectly relate to "things of God."
Interesting that you bring this up. My friend and I have been looking at quantum physics and, as it turns out, it fits perfectly with what Jesus Christ said about believing, and also what it says in Psalms about guarding your heart because out of it are the issues of life.
I have always believed that science is pretty good at explaining how things work. For example, chemistry explains the reactions of mixing certain chemicals, and physics explains action/reaction. But until recently they couldn't tell us why, at the root of it, these things work this way. But quantum physics points out very clearly that there is a spiritual energy in everything.
So, while the bible tells us what to do and the benefits of that, quantum physics is now explaining what is happening at the microscopic level and smaller. Invisible, in fact. And from what I've seen so far there is nothing indirect about the relationship to "things of God".
Interesting that you bring this up. My friend and I have been looking at quantum physics and, as it turns out, it fits perfectly with what Jesus Christ said about believing, and also what it says in Psalms about guarding your heart because out of it are the issues of life.
I have always believed that science is pretty good at explaining how things work. For example, chemistry explains the reactions of mixing certain chemicals, and physics explains action/reaction. But until recently they couldn't tell us why, at the root of it, these things work this way. But quantum physics points out very clearly that there is a spiritual energy in everything.
So, while the bible tells us what to do and the benefits of that, quantum physics is now explaining what is happening at the microscopic level and smaller. Invisible, in fact. And from what I've seen so far there is nothing indirect about the relationship to "things of God".
My life experience both in TWI and outside of it has shown me that there are many people that prefer to be led. That's why there are still so many people involved with TWI and all of the offshoots. They either don't want to, or don't know how to, do their own research. And I mean real research, not re-searching what was published by TWI or the offshoots. (That was such a stupid concept)
Several months ago I stepped away from R&R. I can't even bring myself to listen to the recorded teachings on their web site. Instead, a few of us just get together and actually research topics of interest to the group, or if one of us has been working on something and wants help with it then we do that together. The give and take is wonderful, and it is done without anyone having authority of any sort. Sometimes, we reach a consensus, and we leave there electrified!
I can honestly say of the 20+ years going to fellowship I never left feeling electrified.
It's the difference between watching a cooking show, and cooking dinner. It's the difference between watching a show about helping someone, and going out to help someone. You're taking an active role in your own life- something contrary to twi and R&R. Feel subversive? Feel more powerful?
My involvement in twi lasted until 1998.......after six agonizing years as Oklahoma's Limb Coordinator.
Why were those SIX YEARS (1992-1998) so agonizing?.........not because of the good-hearted folks in Oklahoma, that's for sure. But because of twi's "mission-creep" from elitists at headquarters (cough, cough) who dogged the way corps constantly with faxes, corps teachings, reports, phone calls, verbal attacks, encroaching legalism and more......proclaiming (and further indoctrinating us) that we were the (only) faithful remnant of God's Household standing on "The Word." Yearly themes like......Living Sanctified, Crossing the Bridge into God's Prevailing Word, and the new, upcoming class series on The Way of Abundance and Power.
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse........is alive and well in twi's cult and its splinters.
They use subtle, manipulating and intimidating guilt and abuse to strong-arm followers into compliance. Public teachings and themes all have an agenda to keep you in submission to their doctrines. Centralized abuse from afar!! Martindale was using the SAME techniques that wierwille used......only, the sex-crazed leader of twi (martindale) was not nearly as crafty as old man wierwille.
Six intense years of Insanity on Steroids ........a link to where 3 years ago, I documented the systemic abuse and over-bearing intrusive legalism most specifically pronounced from 1995-1998 when all corps were mandated to quit their jobs and sign onto twi's "revelation project." Yeah, tongue-in-cheek......."revelation project" where martindale supposedly got revelation from God (cough, cough) that all corps be on twi's payroll and thereby, be available full-time to jump thru every damn hoop at the circus. What a growing, ludicrous farce it became!!! Read the link......and see how twi treats its field staff.
THEN.......take note that ALL of these newly-exited corps (2016-2018)......especially the new splinter leaders, STAYED ANOTHER 17 YEARS into rivenbark's regime.
NOTE.......having known most all of these corps people for over 20 years, NOT ONE OF THEM ever called us when my wife and I were smeared with a diatribe character assassination in September 1998 on a corps phone hook-up meeting. What happened to us...........has happened DOZENS and DOZENS of times. Wierwille did it. Martindale did it. And, I have heard that Rivenbark and DeLisle have done it.
I knew every twi-president.......personally.
So did my wife.
Not one of them lifted a finger in our defense.
Twi is a cult........not because of its beliefs, but because of its methods.
Many splinters have surfaced in the past 32 years. How many of them have taken the time to uproot the poison ivy that is growing in their midst? People have died on Twi's LEAD program......yet, wierwille never addressed it publically to the corps body. Women were raped hitch-hiking to LEAD.......yet, no accountability by the "spiritual leaders." Sexual predation by wierwille and martindale was widely known.......yet, all the upper-tier enablers kept silent. Yes, Howard and Wanda and Rosalie were partakers of the sins. With her counseling degree, Dottie Moneyhands was involved in Florida with "counseling" twi-victims of rape/abuse.
But hey. many of you splinter guys........keep whistling your merry tune thru the graveyard of wierwille's abundant living......er, redundant misgivings.
Twi is a cult........not because of its beliefs, but because of its methods.
In twi's organization chart.......corps coordinators were near the top of the pyramid. With the abysmal fallout of that program, this position no longer warrants such prestige or access to the spotlight as it did in the late 70's and 80's. But at that time, corps coordinators were the "drill sergeants" who led the instruction and indoctrination of yearly waves of corps apprentices on several campuses to instill discipline, protocol and strict adherence to wierwille's "Way."
There also was an inner circle of wierwillites as well........body guards, bus drivers, valets, pimps, dog trainers......many, of which, switched several hats of responsibility throughout their day of twi-servitude. Some of these men rose to the highest levels of service, because of their zealous loyalty to wierwille's commands.
But now......these past corps coordinators are disposable. They do not garner the adulation or honor that they once held in twi's cult chart. Three things have changed that have altered the landscape significantly:
Percolating beneath the surface for years, the steam of suppression, disappointment and anger came forth shortly after wierwille's death in 1985. No longer were corps going to submit to mandates and policies that were detrimental to their lives, families and advancement. The curtain was pulled back to see the levers of power and who was pulling them.
Although splinter groups began forming in earnest by 1987 and a mass exodus........it took another 12 years (1999) before Waydale exploded on the internet with aggressive, factual information for open-forum dialogue and chat rooms to herald, far and wide, the true nature and extent of twi's deception and fraud since its inception.
With this extensive exposure on Waydale, 6 region coordinators resigned between 2001-2004 when these two sexual predation lawsuits hit martindale squarely between the eyes. The last vestiges of twi's "greatness" crumbled to the ground..........and Rosalie's tact was to secure the millions and further isolate the cult.
So, these newly-exited corps coordinators.........Magnelli, Moynihan, Fort, and Horney.......are trying to rise from twi's ash heap of mark-and-avoid label-quackery to RE-INSTATING their positions of prominence (cough, cough) by taking their shingle across the street and setting up shop. And, thereby.........re-establishing the spiritual deception and fraud that wierwille and his pyramid scheme perpetrated upon all of us long ago.
These corps guys were complicit in decades of suppression, exploitation and fraud. In all their avenues of access, they could NOT SEE this seduction?
And, now......they are fast-tracking to set up the SAME pyramid again? That is why........these corps-led splinter cults are WORSE.
So, these newly-exited corps coordinators.........Magnelli, Moynihan, Fort, and Horney.......are trying to rise from twi's ash heap of mark-and-avoid label-quackery to RE-INSTATING their positions of prominence (cough, cough) by taking their shingle across the street and setting up shop.
I don't really know Moynihan, he wasn't much present during my time with TWI. Fort was around for a while. I remember enjoying how he taught. Magnelli and Horney I had a lot of exposure to, both through the CDs and magazine, and also on campus, either at Gunnison or New Knoxville. I liked them. Of course, at that time I didn't know anything about the hidden secrets.
I have shared here how I gave them a chance in their new endeavor to show if they were doing anything different. They aren't, except for one thing. They seem hell-bent on getting things back to how they were with VPW rather than how they were with LCM.
When they first announced their separation from TWI I was looking forward to seeing something new and fresh, but how disappointing it was when just the opposite happened. Their teachings, while sometimes providing an interesting point here and there, were just as mundane as the STS from TWI, just a little meatier and not like being in kindergarten. Still, they were irrelevant to me.
I often wondered how they came up with their topics. Were they requested by the body of believers? Did they have some insight into some issues that people were having? Were they related to some current events? No, no, and no. They were just topics that those teachers felt like teaching, demonstrating their supreme understanding of a topic. Yuk.
As many of you are aware, I stopped listening to them early this year. I've been on their web site 4 times since then, just to see what they had taught and recorded. I have listened to none of them.
How wonderful it would be to meet a minister/teacher that goes around like Paul did, speaking with people where they live, and covering topics in the bible that are relevant to their situation. I guess I have high hopes.
Many splinters have surfaced in the past 32 years. How many of them have taken the time to uproot the poison ivy that is growing in their midst? People have died on Twi's LEAD program......yet, wierwille never addressed it publically to the corps body. Women were raped hitch-hiking to LEAD.......yet, no accountability by the "spiritual leaders."
Rochelle died from events that link directly back to the LEAD program. Read the eye-witness account (link).
I don't really know Moynihan, he wasn't much present during my time with TWI. Fort was around for a while. I remember enjoying how he taught. Magnelli and Horney I had a lot of exposure to, both through the CDs and magazine, and also on campus, either at Gunnison or New Knoxville. I liked them. Of course, at that time I didn't know anything about the hidden secrets.
I have shared here how I gave them a chance in their new endeavor to show if they were doing anything different. They aren't, except for one thing. They seem hell-bent on getting things back to how they were with VPW rather than how they were with LCM.
When they first announced their separation from TWI I was looking forward to seeing something new and fresh, but how disappointing it was when just the opposite happened. Their teachings, while sometimes providing an interesting point here and there, were just as mundane as the STS from TWI, just a little meatier and not like being in kindergarten. Still, they were irrelevant to me.
I often wondered how they came up with their topics. Were they requested by the body of believers? Did they have some insight into some issues that people were having? Were they related to some current events? No, no, and no. They were just topics that those teachers felt like teaching, demonstrating their supreme understanding of a topic. Yuk.
As many of you are aware, I stopped listening to them early this year. I've been on their web site 4 times since then, just to see what they had taught and recorded. I have listened to none of them.
How wonderful it would be to meet a minister/teacher that goes around like Paul did, speaking with people where they live, and covering topics in the bible that are relevant to their situation. I guess I have high hopes.
Yeah......many of these splinter leaders elevate the VPW-era because.....
Those early years fan the flames of nostalgia......when it was, supposedly, all lollipops and ice cream. No adult responsibilities.
Wierwille was the consummate cult leader.......keeping "his" people in the spin-cycle of subservience. Run pfal classes, go WOW, go Corps......run pfal. Repeat. There was no long-term investment or advancing of peoples' lives. Where were teachings/discussions on personal goals, strengths and attributes, personal choice, children, parents & families, each family's heritage, traditions, higher education, careers, grandchildren, retirement, and having one's own fulfillment in this life?
Why is it?........that nearly EVERYONE who has left twi has expressed the *need* to REBUILD THEIR LIVES?
We were railroaded by the wierwille-system of classes and control. Knowledge was the bait, submission to follow was the hook.
Wierwille's cult at headquarters was anti-family, anti-Christian and anti-life. It was a petri dish of subculture.
Those who want to re-establish the wierwille-subservience era.....have ulterior motives to lord over others.
Those who want to re-establish the wierwille-subservience era.....have ulterior motives to lord over others.
From what I've seen of R&R, which is quite a bit, it's not even along these lines. It's more like they're just stuck in the "I'm the teacher and you're the student" mindset. It's like they are stuck in a trench and instead of digging out they just keep pacing back and forth. Maybe the first couple of laps it's interesting, but then, why?
I never felt like they were imposing anything on me, they never demanded any particular actions, they never asked for money, they never tried to rally us to some cause. I was receiving no benefit from listening to them. They just taught their own topics. And continuously injected some obscure principle from VPW, or quoted him, or praised him. It just got so boring.
That's why I stopped listening to them.
At least here we can select a topic that interests us, or even start our own, and have a discussion with others that are also interested in that topic. And we get to challenge each other, and lead each other to think differently. I couldn't do that with R&R.
I know a lot of people think poorly of Joel Osteen, and criticize him. But I've listened to some of his teachings on youtube and they were more relevant to daily life than anything the R&R group has put out up to the last time I listened.
From what I've seen of R&R, which is quite a bit, it's not even along these lines. It's more like they're just stuck in the "I'm the teacher and you're the student" mindset. It's like they are stuck in a trench and instead of digging out they just keep pacing back and forth. Maybe the first couple of laps it's interesting, but then, why?
I never felt like they were imposing anything on me, they never demanded any particular actions, they never asked for money, they never tried to rally us to some cause. I was receiving no benefit from listening to them. They just taught their own topics. And continuously injected some obscure principle from VPW, or quoted him, or praised him. It just got so boring.
.........
Taxidev........don't you see its benefit? It is standing there in plain sight.
Those who are teaching ........ are doing "the Word."
Those who are sitting and listening ....... are doing "the Word."
When the sitter becomes the teacher..... s/he is "doing the Word."
These corps grads have sat listening tens of thousands of hours ...... "doing the Word."
The indoctrination is ..... sit there and listen, remember and obey ..... to sit and re-learn some more.
Hope this clears that up for you.
The reason you were receiving nobenefit from listening to them is because you weren't fully initiated into wierwille's Way. The way corps were trained at twi's various campuses to sit cross-legged (like 2nd graders) on the ground or floor during wierwille's visits. These "sharings" at night owls or afterglow meetings.....could easily run 2 hours or more.
And, of course, sitting on your butt for hours was "doing the Word."
It's been so ingrained into the corps psyche ....... that it sometimes takes YEARS to break from this indoctrinated mindset. Sadly, some never recover from this psycho-babble of numb-buttedness from their way daze..... and join the ranks of the flat-butt society.
Taxidev........don't you see its benefit? It is standing there in plain sight.
Those who are teaching ........ are doing "the Word."
Those who are sitting and listening ....... are doing "the Word."
When the sitter becomes the teacher..... s/he is "doing the Word."
These corps grads have sat listening tens of thousands of hours ...... "doing the Word."
The indoctrination is ..... sit there and listen, remember and obey ..... to sit and re-learn some more.
Hope this clears that up for you.
The reason you were receiving nobenefit from listening to them is because you weren't fully initiated into wierwille's Way. The way corps were trained at twi's various campuses to sit cross-legged (like 2nd graders) on the ground or floor during wierwille's visits. These "sharings" at night owls or afterglow meetings.....could easily run 2 hours or more.
And, of course, sitting on your butt for hours was "doing the Word."
It's been so ingrained into the corps psyche ....... that it sometimes takes YEARS to break from this indoctrinated mindset. Sadly, some never recover from this psycho-babble of numb-buttedness from their way daze..... and join the ranks of the flat-butt society.
Hope this helps.
Ahhhh…such is life in a hamster-wheel:
hamster-wheel: Noun. (plural hamster wheels) A circular cage for a hamster or other small rodent, which rotates vertically as the animal runs at the bottom. (figuratively, by extension) A monotonous, repetitive, unfulfilling activity, especially one in which no progress is achieved.
Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved, those with big home problems; and suchlike.
As a special thing this year, I've made up Christmas parcels with hats and gloves etc, and some things to eat; and some "crackers" with a toothbrush and some toothpaste samples; and some cards, to give to the street sleepers. Hope these are well received; we hope for opportunities to share the gospel more with recipients.
Sometimes, we even speak the gospel instead of demonstrating it.
"The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for who enables his followers to fulfil the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The WayLord Jesus Christ is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings with all other Christians for spiritual nurture and growth. The WayLord Jesus Christ's followers are fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God."
hamster-wheel: Noun. (plural hamster wheels) A circular cage for a hamster or other small rodent, which rotates vertically as the animal runs at the bottom. (figuratively, by extension) A monotonous, repetitive, unfulfilling activity, especially one in which no progress is achieved.
T-Bone.......yes, a circular cage. Activity but no accomplishment.
Looking back at the wierwille hamster-wheel ......... it is absolutely imperative to understand that the corps indoctrination program was to spearhead the training of faithful, disciplined pfal-class instructors. Full stop. Twigs were to help introduce new people to "the ministry"...... but it was THE CLASS that taught them. And, right out of the gate, the Dale Carnegie sales techniques were twi's ground-level modus operandi during September and October months of corps "training."
Twigs were to promote ....... pfal class.
WOWs were to promote ...... pfal class.
Corps were trained to stand guard over..... pfal class.
Run, rinse, repeat pfal. Run, rinse, repeat pfal.
Did wierwille really think that running these pfal classes (or sitting in them) would sustain us a lifetime? For that matter.......did the Board of Dummies really believe that the same old, same old Rock of Ages would continue indefinitely? Especially, when they added a Corps Week (work week) before it......expecting corps from all over the country to leave their work of employment for 3 weeks EVERY YEAR to participate in wierwille's mandated policy? Not only did wierwille show no empathy for this burden that he placed on the corps, he rarely (if ever) thanked us for years of service.
Talk about a static system. The pyramid man liked his position on the top and wasn't going to change it. The authoritarian was about as dynamic as thick maple syrup left outside in freezing, wintery Vermont. PFAL and ROA........that was it. Whoopee! Ain't it great? Hamster-wheel Heaven.
Year after year.......we ran pfal and went to the rock of ages.
Year after year.......it was a revolving door. People were leaving, never to return.
Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved, those with big home problems; and suchlike.
As a special thing this year, I've made up Christmas parcels with hats and gloves etc, and some things to eat; and some "crackers" with a toothbrush and some toothpaste samples; and some cards, to give to the street sleepers. Hope these are well received; we hope for opportunities to share the gospel more with recipients.
Sometimes, we even speak the gospel instead of demonstrating it.
Our main concern was three girls, who all separately were very drunk outside a club. We gave them water, which will either make them sick, or will help reduce the hangover next day. One girl had a friend with her, but two were alone. Eventually two got friends to pick them up, but we were left with one who had no phone and her only friends were still in the club. Her coat was in the club, too, and the ticket could not be found. She was near comatose, became shivery, and couldn't be left. Amazingly, one of the security staff was taking an interest and offered to get (and did) a coat from their Lost Property section; he found a nice cosy hooded jacket for her. A belligerent drunk male was among the many people hanging about and several times approached the girl, not with evil intent, I think, more "what's this?" Some of us stood between the girl and the male; others tried to get him to move away. After an hour or so, the male wandered off and by then the oblivious girl had had a bit of a sleep, and was warm, conscious and speaking reasonably clearly. (Perhaps this was your prayers taking effect!) At that point, we felt it safe to leave her. The BID security/ambulance team checked on her a time or two after we left. Of course, whether she found her friends and went with them in the booked taxi to their nearby home town is another matter.
While we were tending her, another female, a rough sleeper, clearly with problems, rocked up. She had been refused admission to Julian House hostel because she was too late. She had a partner, who was off collecting cardboard boxes on which to sleep. We gave them a good wool blanket and Christmas presents: hats, socks and gloves, and toothbrushes.
We'd made up parcels of hats, gloves, socks etc and toothbrushes and paste to distribute to rough sleepers. We were disappointed that we didn't give out too many of our gifts to homeless people, because there weren't many of them around. Perhaps tonight's team will distribute more.
We gave out one blanket, hot drinks, gathered about 80 bottles and glasses, swept up about 8 broken glasses, chatted with many doorstaff and other passers-by (one was a SP in another city, who came to thank us for what we do).
A street pastor from another city came up to us and thanked us for what we do, explained she was a SP elsewhere, loved the mission. Many other people came up to us and thanked us for looking out for the city; we explain to those who still don't know that it's an expression of our Christianity, church on the street, getting out there and helping; people always express amazement and pleasure that it's a volunteer organisation, and high-five us or hug us. In such ways, the name and the work of the Lord is magnified.
All in all, a normal sort of night - quiet, even, for late December.
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Why do splinter groups keep splintering further and further into the Wild Blue Yonder?
"Splinter Groups" [False prophets and priests].......are nothing new, date back to the days of old.
Jeremiah chapter 23 gives an apt description of what the Lord God of Israel thinks about them.
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skyrider
"The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God."
TRANSLATION:
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Taxidev
My life experience both in TWI and outside of it has shown me that there are many people that prefer to be led. That's why there are still so many people involved with TWI and all of the offshoots. They either don't want to, or don't know how to, do their own research. And I mean real research, not re-searching what was published by TWI or the offshoots. (That was such a stupid concept)
Several months ago I stepped away from R&R. I can't even bring myself to listen to the recorded teachings on their web site. Instead, a few of us just get together and actually research topics of interest to the group, or if one of us has been working on something and wants help with it then we do that together. The give and take is wonderful, and it is done without anyone having authority of any sort. Sometimes, we reach a consensus, and we leave there electrified!
I can honestly say of the 20+ years going to fellowship I never left feeling electrified.
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Rocky
I agree, it seems quite apparent in many areas of society and culture that there are "plenty of people (who) prefer to be led." There are plenty of other examples in societies and cultures these days -- not limited to twi and offshoots thereof.
Bravo for you that you study and re-search bible stuff with a small group of friends.
A caveat I would add, that you probably have already thought of -- don't translate ANY of your re-search into dogmas that others must follow.
Further, perhaps you might find studying (and searching or re-searching) other, not necessarily limited to biblical, topics also electrifying. Some might also provide exciting insights into what might indirectly relate to "things of God."
Just a few thoughts, FWIW.
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Taxidev
Interesting that you bring this up. My friend and I have been looking at quantum physics and, as it turns out, it fits perfectly with what Jesus Christ said about believing, and also what it says in Psalms about guarding your heart because out of it are the issues of life.
I have always believed that science is pretty good at explaining how things work. For example, chemistry explains the reactions of mixing certain chemicals, and physics explains action/reaction. But until recently they couldn't tell us why, at the root of it, these things work this way. But quantum physics points out very clearly that there is a spiritual energy in everything.
So, while the bible tells us what to do and the benefits of that, quantum physics is now explaining what is happening at the microscopic level and smaller. Invisible, in fact. And from what I've seen so far there is nothing indirect about the relationship to "things of God".
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Rocky
excellent observation! Keep on learning!
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WordWolf
It's the difference between watching a cooking show, and cooking dinner. It's the difference between watching a show about helping someone, and going out to help someone. You're taking an active role in your own life- something contrary to twi and R&R. Feel subversive? Feel more powerful?
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skyrider
Why were those SIX YEARS (1992-1998) so agonizing?.........not because of the good-hearted folks in Oklahoma, that's for sure. But because of twi's "mission-creep" from elitists at headquarters (cough, cough) who dogged the way corps constantly with faxes, corps teachings, reports, phone calls, verbal attacks, encroaching legalism and more......proclaiming (and further indoctrinating us) that we were the (only) faithful remnant of God's Household standing on "The Word." Yearly themes like......Living Sanctified, Crossing the Bridge into God's Prevailing Word, and the new, upcoming class series on The Way of Abundance and Power.
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse........is alive and well in twi's cult and its splinters.
They use subtle, manipulating and intimidating guilt and abuse to strong-arm followers into compliance. Public teachings and themes all have an agenda to keep you in submission to their doctrines. Centralized abuse from afar!! Martindale was using the SAME techniques that wierwille used......only, the sex-crazed leader of twi (martindale) was not nearly as crafty as old man wierwille.
Six intense years of Insanity on Steroids ........a link to where 3 years ago, I documented the systemic abuse and over-bearing intrusive legalism most specifically pronounced from 1995-1998 when all corps were mandated to quit their jobs and sign onto twi's "revelation project." Yeah, tongue-in-cheek......."revelation project" where martindale supposedly got revelation from God (cough, cough) that all corps be on twi's payroll and thereby, be available full-time to jump thru every damn hoop at the circus. What a growing, ludicrous farce it became!!! Read the link......and see how twi treats its field staff.
THEN.......take note that ALL of these newly-exited corps (2016-2018)......especially the new splinter leaders, STAYED ANOTHER 17 YEARS into rivenbark's regime.
NOTE.......having known most all of these corps people for over 20 years, NOT ONE OF THEM ever called us when my wife and I were smeared with a diatribe character assassination in September 1998 on a corps phone hook-up meeting. What happened to us...........has happened DOZENS and DOZENS of times. Wierwille did it. Martindale did it. And, I have heard that Rivenbark and DeLisle have done it.
I knew every twi-president.......personally.
So did my wife.
Not one of them lifted a finger in our defense.
Twi is a cult........not because of its beliefs, but because of its methods.
Many splinters have surfaced in the past 32 years. How many of them have taken the time to uproot the poison ivy that is growing in their midst? People have died on Twi's LEAD program......yet, wierwille never addressed it publically to the corps body. Women were raped hitch-hiking to LEAD.......yet, no accountability by the "spiritual leaders." Sexual predation by wierwille and martindale was widely known.......yet, all the upper-tier enablers kept silent. Yes, Howard and Wanda and Rosalie were partakers of the sins. With her counseling degree, Dottie Moneyhands was involved in Florida with "counseling" twi-victims of rape/abuse.
But hey. many of you splinter guys........keep whistling your merry tune thru the graveyard of wierwille's
abundant living......er, redundant misgivings.Link to comment
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waysider
This right here.
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Raf
You know who NEVER says quantum physics explains spirituality? Quantum physicists.
It's like, I can't explain A, I don't understand B. Therefore B explains A.
No, it doesn't.
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Rocky
I don't understand how that relates to this discussion.
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skyrider
In twi's organization chart.......corps coordinators were near the top of the pyramid. With the abysmal fallout of that program, this position no longer warrants such prestige or access to the spotlight as it did in the late 70's and 80's. But at that time, corps coordinators were the "drill sergeants" who led the instruction and indoctrination of yearly waves of corps apprentices on several campuses to instill discipline, protocol and strict adherence to wierwille's "Way."
There also was an inner circle of wierwillites as well........body guards, bus drivers, valets, pimps, dog trainers......many, of which, switched several hats of responsibility throughout their day of twi-servitude. Some of these men rose to the highest levels of service, because of their zealous loyalty to wierwille's commands.
But now......these past corps coordinators are disposable. They do not garner the adulation or honor that they once held in twi's cult chart. Three things have changed that have altered the landscape significantly:
So, these newly-exited corps coordinators.........Magnelli, Moynihan, Fort, and Horney.......are trying to rise from twi's ash heap of mark-and-avoid label-quackery to RE-INSTATING their positions of prominence (cough, cough) by taking their shingle across the street and setting up shop. And, thereby.........re-establishing the spiritual deception and fraud that wierwille and his pyramid scheme perpetrated upon all of us long ago.
These corps guys were complicit in decades of suppression, exploitation and fraud. In all their avenues of access, they could NOT SEE this seduction?
And, now......they are fast-tracking to set up the SAME pyramid again? That is why........these corps-led splinter cults are WORSE.
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Taxidev
I don't really know Moynihan, he wasn't much present during my time with TWI. Fort was around for a while. I remember enjoying how he taught. Magnelli and Horney I had a lot of exposure to, both through the CDs and magazine, and also on campus, either at Gunnison or New Knoxville. I liked them. Of course, at that time I didn't know anything about the hidden secrets.
I have shared here how I gave them a chance in their new endeavor to show if they were doing anything different. They aren't, except for one thing. They seem hell-bent on getting things back to how they were with VPW rather than how they were with LCM.
When they first announced their separation from TWI I was looking forward to seeing something new and fresh, but how disappointing it was when just the opposite happened. Their teachings, while sometimes providing an interesting point here and there, were just as mundane as the STS from TWI, just a little meatier and not like being in kindergarten. Still, they were irrelevant to me.
I often wondered how they came up with their topics. Were they requested by the body of believers? Did they have some insight into some issues that people were having? Were they related to some current events? No, no, and no. They were just topics that those teachers felt like teaching, demonstrating their supreme understanding of a topic. Yuk.
As many of you are aware, I stopped listening to them early this year. I've been on their web site 4 times since then, just to see what they had taught and recorded. I have listened to none of them.
How wonderful it would be to meet a minister/teacher that goes around like Paul did, speaking with people where they live, and covering topics in the bible that are relevant to their situation. I guess I have high hopes.
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skyrider
Rochelle died from events that link directly back to the LEAD program. Read the eye-witness account (link).
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skyrider
Yeah......many of these splinter leaders elevate the VPW-era because.....
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Taxidev
From what I've seen of R&R, which is quite a bit, it's not even along these lines. It's more like they're just stuck in the "I'm the teacher and you're the student" mindset. It's like they are stuck in a trench and instead of digging out they just keep pacing back and forth. Maybe the first couple of laps it's interesting, but then, why?
I never felt like they were imposing anything on me, they never demanded any particular actions, they never asked for money, they never tried to rally us to some cause. I was receiving no benefit from listening to them. They just taught their own topics. And continuously injected some obscure principle from VPW, or quoted him, or praised him. It just got so boring.
That's why I stopped listening to them.
At least here we can select a topic that interests us, or even start our own, and have a discussion with others that are also interested in that topic. And we get to challenge each other, and lead each other to think differently. I couldn't do that with R&R.
I know a lot of people think poorly of Joel Osteen, and criticize him. But I've listened to some of his teachings on youtube and they were more relevant to daily life than anything the R&R group has put out up to the last time I listened.
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skyrider
Taxidev........don't you see its benefit? It is standing there in plain sight.
Hope this clears that up for you.
The reason you were receiving no benefit from listening to them is because you weren't fully initiated into wierwille's Way. The way corps were trained at twi's various campuses to sit cross-legged (like 2nd graders) on the ground or floor during wierwille's visits. These "sharings" at night owls or afterglow meetings.....could easily run 2 hours or more.
And, of course, sitting on your butt for hours was "doing the Word."
It's been so ingrained into the corps psyche ....... that it sometimes takes YEARS to break from this indoctrinated mindset. Sadly, some never recover from this psycho-babble of numb-buttedness from their way daze..... and join the ranks of the flat-butt society.
Hope this helps.
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Taxidev
That's so sad.
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T-Bone
Ahhhh…such is life in a hamster-wheel:
hamster-wheel: Noun. (plural hamster wheels) A circular cage for a hamster or other small rodent, which rotates vertically as the animal runs at the bottom. (figuratively, by extension) A monotonous, repetitive, unfulfilling activity, especially one in which no progress is achieved.
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Twinky
Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved, those with big home problems; and suchlike.
As a special thing this year, I've made up Christmas parcels with hats and gloves etc, and some things to eat; and some "crackers" with a toothbrush and some toothpaste samples; and some cards, to give to the street sleepers. Hope these are well received; we hope for opportunities to share the gospel more with recipients.
Sometimes, we even speak the gospel instead of demonstrating it.
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Twinky
Is that more like the way it should read?
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skyrider
T-Bone.......yes, a circular cage. Activity but no accomplishment.
Looking back at the wierwille hamster-wheel ......... it is absolutely imperative to understand that the corps indoctrination program was to spearhead the training of faithful, disciplined pfal-class instructors. Full stop. Twigs were to help introduce new people to "the ministry"...... but it was THE CLASS that taught them. And, right out of the gate, the Dale Carnegie sales techniques were twi's ground-level modus operandi during September and October months of corps "training."
Run, rinse, repeat pfal. Run, rinse, repeat pfal.
Did wierwille really think that running these pfal classes (or sitting in them) would sustain us a lifetime? For that matter.......did the Board of Dummies really believe that the same old, same old Rock of Ages would continue indefinitely? Especially, when they added a Corps Week (work week) before it......expecting corps from all over the country to leave their work of employment for 3 weeks EVERY YEAR to participate in wierwille's mandated policy? Not only did wierwille show no empathy for this burden that he placed on the corps, he rarely (if ever) thanked us for years of service.
Talk about a static system. The pyramid man liked his position on the top and wasn't going to change it. The authoritarian was about as dynamic as thick maple syrup left outside in freezing, wintery Vermont. PFAL and ROA........that was it. Whoopee! Ain't it great? Hamster-wheel Heaven.
Year after year.......we ran pfal and went to the rock of ages.
Year after year.......it was a revolving door. People were leaving, never to return.
Who wants to join the new splinters?
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outandabout
I don't want to go anywhere near anything that remotely resembles TWI.
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Twinky
Our main concern was three girls, who all separately were very drunk outside a club. We gave them water, which will either make them sick, or will help reduce the hangover next day. One girl had a friend with her, but two were alone. Eventually two got friends to pick them up, but we were left with one who had no phone and her only friends were still in the club. Her coat was in the club, too, and the ticket could not be found. She was near comatose, became shivery, and couldn't be left. Amazingly, one of the security staff was taking an interest and offered to get (and did) a coat from their Lost Property section; he found a nice cosy hooded jacket for her. A belligerent drunk male was among the many people hanging about and several times approached the girl, not with evil intent, I think, more "what's this?" Some of us stood between the girl and the male; others tried to get him to move away. After an hour or so, the male wandered off and by then the oblivious girl had had a bit of a sleep, and was warm, conscious and speaking reasonably clearly. (Perhaps this was your prayers taking effect!) At that point, we felt it safe to leave her. The BID security/ambulance team checked on her a time or two after we left. Of course, whether she found her friends and went with them in the booked taxi to their nearby home town is another matter.
While we were tending her, another female, a rough sleeper, clearly with problems, rocked up. She had been refused admission to Julian House hostel because she was too late. She had a partner, who was off collecting cardboard boxes on which to sleep. We gave them a good wool blanket and Christmas presents: hats, socks and gloves, and toothbrushes.
We'd made up parcels of hats, gloves, socks etc and toothbrushes and paste to distribute to rough sleepers. We were disappointed that we didn't give out too many of our gifts to homeless people, because there weren't many of them around. Perhaps tonight's team will distribute more.
We gave out one blanket, hot drinks, gathered about 80 bottles and glasses, swept up about 8 broken glasses, chatted with many doorstaff and other passers-by (one was a SP in another city, who came to thank us for what we do).
A street pastor from another city came up to us and thanked us for what we do, explained she was a SP elsewhere, loved the mission. Many other people came up to us and thanked us for looking out for the city; we explain to those who still don't know that it's an expression of our Christianity, church on the street, getting out there and helping; people always express amazement and pleasure that it's a volunteer organisation, and high-five us or hug us. In such ways, the name and the work of the Lord is magnified.
All in all, a normal sort of night - quiet, even, for late December.
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