Many of you will be aware of the history that got LCM ejected from TWI, and you may know the names of some of his victims who started lawsuits.
I met with J@nu@ry B@rn3s. She told me how LCM had been with her. She told me the whole sordid details of what he did, where; how her marriage broke down and - oh, just so much. I had no idea (how could I have done?) - I was "gobsmacked" with what she said, still am really, filled with revulsion; and it's over ten years since we talked. What she did tell me, though, was that she attended CFFM fellowships and the leaders at CFFM knew some of what had happened (to whom, how, when) and that they spent a lot of time with victims, walking in the grounds, or in other places at CFFM, quietly talking over the abuse (including sexual) of the survivors. Walking, talking, soothing, praying, listening. CFFM certainly wasn't in denial at that time and didn't avoid the topic or tell people to move on.
It's not necessary to shout about it from the rooftops at every meeting, so if it wasn't mentioned on one occasion that's no surprise.
Twinky, I had the exact same conversation with J@nu@ry over 15 years ago, and very similar experiences with CFFM. For what it’s worth, I’m in complete agreement with you comments.
For decades she lived in fear of reprisals from TWI. Actually feared for her life. What a horrible way to live. To my knowledge she’s past that now.
From what I can see these days, CFFM is doing the best they can do to honor Jesus Christ in their small community of Christians as they continue to help those who were abused by TWI in any form.
Twinky and Jaydee, please read the next post- Lifted Up had asked a specific question and I replied to it without including her quote. That is why I stated in my reply " In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on. Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial." My remark had absolutely nothing to do with the sexual abuse of LCM or anyone else, only VPW.
5 hours ago, Twinky said:
Many of you will be aware of the history that got LCM ejected from TWI, and you may know the names of some of his victims who started lawsuits.
I met with J@nu@ry B@rn3s. She told me how LCM had been with her. She told me the whole sordid details of what he did, where; how her marriage broke down and - oh, just so much. I had no idea (how could I have done?) - I was "gobsmacked" with what she said, still am really, filled with revulsion; and it's over ten years since we talked. What she did tell me, though, was that she attended CFFM fellowships and the leaders at CFFM knew some of what had happened (to whom, how, when) and that they spent a lot of time with victims, walking in the grounds, or in other places at CFFM, quietly talking over the abuse (including sexual) of the survivors. Walking, talking, soothing, praying, listening. CFFM certainly wasn't in denial at that time and didn't avoid the topic or tell people to move on.
It's not necessary to shout about it from the rooftops at every meeting, so if it wasn't mentioned on one occasion that's no surprise.
Spam? That's an interesting one. I had made a modesty lengthy post that vanished. Let's just say for now I forgot to enter the post, though I am awfuly sure I did. No, I became involved in TWI in 1975, entered the 8th corps, and my sexual assault happened in 1979. I just fully recalled it in the fall of 2017, though I began to remember it as a "minor event" around the time Kristen Skedgell published he book and when, for a couple years, I was by far the most prolific poster on her blog, "Thriving Reality"' A bit later Kristen moved beyond talking about her Way time publicly, but I came across a wonderful non-Way non-cult person who took her place as my best survivor friend,.In the last year and a half I have acquired plenty of recovery resources so I'm not appealing to anyone to take their place. In fact, my recovery resources are intentionally non-Way, because I see little compassion for the hurting among those who promote and/or teach the "love of God" the same "way" as was done in The Way. That includes the "splinter" groups; do any acknowledge Wierwille's misdeeds without passing them off as irrelevant to them?
This is what was originally said to me by Lifted up and is the context in which I made the remark to Twinky in which that no remarks were made at my visit to CFFM in 2006 about the sexual abuse- the abuse by VPW- Sarah Guigou's father- I did not quote Lifted Up in my remarks, so maybe that is the cause of the confusion, but my remarks immediately follow her post in the thread in this forum topic. So in a sense, my remarks are not applicable to the case of J.-----B-----S. as discussed by Twinky.
I will make a short version of my reply which was in here. But I know my main sexual assaulter is one of those who ignores hurts and carries on with wonderful sounding words and prayers in the one she is in.
Well, guess who gets the reward for the glaring overlook this week? In all fairness, seriously, sometimes my brain jumbles stuff- when Lifted up first threw out the sexual assault remarks, duh, I didn't look to see that his gender was, uh, male. He said it happened in 1979, and it wasn't so much a thing back then for women to be doing the assaulting, so of course I just did the stupid thing and assumed he was a she. And then in one of his posts he mentioned another victim who is a she, so that's who I thought he was referencing with the pronoun "she" in the quote, not his assaulter. Even though he used proper English and preceded the pronoun with the noun. This is what happens when you answer stuff from your tablet in bed before coffee, after sleeping til a ridiculous time. I'm not even going to go into the stupid remark I made to him at Facebook messenger, which I will address with him there in private. Oy vey. Well, at least you all know that when I F up, if I catch it I will come out and do a mea culpa and correct it. And with my real name, imagine that!
I have had more involvement here at GreaseSpot since Friday, what, five days, than since I joined like two years ago. I better quit and start vacuuming my house.
- when Lifted up first threw out the sexual assault remarks, duh, I didn't look to see that his gender was, uh, male. He said it happened in 1979, and it wasn't so much a thing back then for women to be doing the assaulting, so of course I just did the stupid thing and assumed he was a she.
19 hours ago, Kathy Niclaus said:
When I first came onto Greasespot, like many getting on after Waydale, I wasn't talking about the sexual assault because I was still Waybrained and had not recalled it. But still, there was no gender listed under names and for whatever reason many assumed I was female. I corrected people on a couple of occasions but did not make a big deal of it. As females doing assaulting, Back then I guess the Way Corps was already getting VPW's "doctrine" that "men of God" (Way Corps) had to have their sexual needs fulfilled so they could properly do their work. I guess that was also roughly the time when, as I heard a lot of talk about in those early Greasespot days, that VPW told LCM he had to "loosen up". Well, I don't know for sure where the idea came from, but I got that "loosening up", i.e. sexual assault. It surely was just a game to the two involved, largely because of a corps stereotype...SAME one that exists in general society...that men are men and can't be hurt by sex because we are always so sex starved that it is doing us a favor to play those "games" and loosen us up. We talk about there gender stereotypes sometimes in my male survivor support group. But I was deeply emberassed...shamed...as I finally re-lived when I went over the "event" for the first time with my counselor just over a year and a half ago. Here is the clincher: after I finally escaped to my top bunk and re-froze, a little later the other men came in. It was after lights out, so everybody got ready for sleep in the dark. Then they started talking about the event, because the two women had told them all about what happened, again, as if it were a game. The guys did not know I was already quietly frozen in my bunk. Then I heard the them say specifically that it was good for me to be "loosened up". This is ONLY speculation, but I can't help but wonder if anything like this happened to Victor Barnard, perhaps with him going along with the "games" or "loosening up'" , thus later becoming the prolific abuser that he was in his own cult...and maybe with a lot less skill and authority in hiding the abuse that VPW displayed.
Kathy Niclaus, I am beginning to discover you are quite the caring person. Never mind what you believe or don't believe. And if you feel you made a mistake, maybe is was lack of coiffee's fault LOL! I have to get that in because I was a known lifelong NON coffe drinker, yet I was put in charge of the after-class coffee crew at Emporia for several months. It was during that stint one time that VPW drifted in from his coach and ""invited" (as if I could turn him down) me into the coach to eat a pastry. We didn't chat, I just ate while he worked. I guess they trusted me to make the coffee according to instruction, and figured as a non drinker I would not be tempted to alter its prescribed weakness? (and waste Way resources?)
One more thing. Obviously I was waybrained during my corps time. I think all of us were. I won't go into the details, but I would love to offer forgiveness on this event. But I am not sure it will ever go beyond me writing an unsent letter.
Kathy Niclaus, I am beginning to discover you are quite the caring person. Never mind what you believe or don't believe. And if you feel you made a mistake, maybe is was lack of coiffee's fault LOL! I have to get that in because I was a known lifelong NON coffe drinker, yet I was put in charge of the after-class coffee crew at Emporia for several months.
Oh yeah, I care a lot, it's true. I am a smart foot though, and don't suffer fools lightly. The older I get the more like my mother I seem to be, it's amazing. Anyway, thank you for your kind observation, and here's one of my usual snarky ones- what was up with them serving coffee AFTER class? It should have been served before class! I have heard the many stories of people nodding off, WC working all day, I mean up at 5, running in the morning,l working all day, then class at night, who needs coffee at night? Sleep! Sleep is needed!
Speaking of coffee, I am on a totally whack sleeping schedule, and am off for my first cup of the day but it has to be decaf............
Oh yeah, I care a lot, it's true. I am a smart foot though, and don't suffer fools lightly. The older I get the more like my mother I seem to be, it's amazing. Anyway, thank you for your kind observation, and here's one of my usual snarky ones- what was up with them serving coffee AFTER class? It should have been served before class! I have heard the many stories of people nodding off, WC working all day, I mean up at 5, running in the morning,l working all day, then class at night, who needs coffee at night? Sleep! Sleep is needed!
Speaking of coffee, I am on a totally whack sleeping schedule, and am off for my first cup of the day but it has to be decaf............
The coffee was sometimes during breaks as well as after class, but certainly not before. I never got a call to do it before anyway. As for my "caring" remark, caring. as most people realize, caring does not necessarily consist only of sweet words. I have a friend...OK for now a FB fried, but she is a lifelong friend of my best survivor friend...who IMO has a great sensitivity to others who are hurting, and who at times expresses choice words at those doing the hurting. .
OK basic question for this topic. What is considered an offshoot and/or TWI related splinter group? My sexual assault happened in TWI, but one of my assaulters is involved in what I would consider one of them. Thus my spending time on this topic/thread. Whether or not a particular group has any TWI-ike sexual activity happening, I am interested in how they view the TWI stuff. Do they acknowledge it while saying they are clean, or do they refuse to acknowledge even the TWI hurts?
What was happening in December 1978? Why were clergy leaving twi?
[ Shortly after Jim Jones and Jonestown Cult mass murder ]
Note: 1) The "great accuracy of the Word" and 2) the principles of The Way Ministry are interlocked !!
If you LEAVE twi......you LEAVE the word.
~~~~~~~~~~~
"Some I ordained have not remained faithful -- they've broken fellowship with God and the household of The Way. Yet, I was good enough, loved God and you enough, and you were blessed and honored enough to accept God's ordination and my blessing. Breaking of ordination commitments has made me very hesitant about future ordinations. What should I do?"
"Why all the problems? I think you know what I mean? Fighting and dislike of each other -- jealously, prejudice, divorce, remarriage, dope, etc. etc. etc. God forbid that our ordinations of Way Corps grads turn into a mockery, and a laughingstock of the community."
"The least you could do if you were ordained and now you're outside the household of The Way is never to used the term 'Reverend.' If you're still sticking in the household of The Way but you've neglected the loyalty commitment to the ordination vows and the exciting, continuing fellowship of it, build up your life on the Word and believe again in the great accuracy of the Word, and principles of The Way Ministry, that your ordination may again be meaningful."
Wierwille despised the "Reverends" who left him/twi.
Any clergy who exited twi and, STILL, used the "reverend" title......wierwille denigrated.
The Wierwille Doctrine: Standing on The Word was ONLY available to those in twi's household. Period.
The Wierwille Doctrine: Standing on The Word was ONLY available to those in twi's household. Period.
All of these newly-exited corps are purposely dismissing The Wierwille Doctrine.
Corps teaching after corps teaching.....(and Sunday Service Teachings, too).......wierwille claimed that the ONLY WAY to "stand on the Word" was to remain faithful in the way international. If you left.....you went out into the dark night of the soul.
These corps, who've jumped into these new splinter cults (to try and make a splash)........are deceiving themselves. Wierwille could NOT have been more clear. If you left him/twi........you were "NOT on the Word." He relentlessly taught - - - "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
If you leave the ministry (twi).......YOU LEAVE THE WORD.
THAT is what wierwille taught.......(and that's why it was, as is, a cult).
"The least you could do if you were ordained and now you're outside the household of The Way is never to used the term 'Reverend.'
I just read that 40-year old letter again. What struck me (slapped me in the face) this time was that Wierwille said, "I love you for who you are." Oooops, that's not it, instead he actually wrote, "I love you for the privilege and responsibility you have."
What was that "privilege?" As he taught (indoctrinated) H.I.S. way corpse, the privilege was having been called to be "doulos." Literally a slave. One who no longer has freedom to make her/his own life choices.
Of course, in the indoctrination, it was slave to God. In practice, it was slave to Wierwille and his successors.
The reward for the slave? To serve the earthly master on the basis of a bass-ackward interpretation of what leadership is supposed to be... and what Wierwille and successors could con you into believing you'd get at the "Bema." When you stood before God for rewards in heaven. Not unlike the mythical 70 virgins another religion promised for heinous acts of terrorism.
Edited by Rocky Provide link for insight into "doulos"
On 5/29/2019 at 3:47 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
Yeah, Skyrider.... splinters are oftentimes worse than the original disease from which they metastasized!
Look at “Rev” Charlie Quillen’s “Faithful In Christ Ministries” out of Chicago, IL & hooked in tight with CFFM, SOWERS, Wrenn, Reahard and all the other pathetic wierwilleites running around the fringiest fringes of the Alt-Right Aryan “Christian” Dominionist groups flooding the evangelical fundamentalist persecuted hordes of the faithful! They provide shelter and cover for each other, doing their best to sweep away all the blood tracks dripping back to Wierwille, The Way, and and all the spiritual and sexual abuse that they participated in and/or enabled!
Quillen (along with MacMullan) was the wannabe Heinrich Himmler of the wierwille/martindale reich....Head Of The Gestapo and SS. We’ve had tons of stories here at the GSC through the years, involving the creepy stares and eerie presence of the “bless patrol chief’s” security for the MOGs of TWI. Standing guard at the door of the motor coach as the abused victims marched in and out under the watchful stare of “Rev” Quillen and “Rev” Geer, game OF Thrones 1970s cornfield cult style! LOL!
Well, now “Rev” Charlie has a pretty decent sized Wierwille-cult in IL now and has all sorts of “related pages” and “ministries” he sponsors, like “The Solution Radio Show: Jesus Christ Is God’s Solution” which is advertised all over Charlie’s pages. Greg Backes runs the joint and hooks up with old TWIt broadcast refugees like Mike Verdicchio, the voice of Sprits In The Althlete, who also does some jeeezus show on some radio station out west somewhere. CFFM, and SOWERS are heavily promoted as is Sparrow Cartoons, a “Christian” cartoon publishing company owned and operated by none other then one of Charlie’s most loyal Blesstapo Patrol henchman, and Heinrich Himmler to convicted rapist and cult leader, and fellow corpse bruddah, Victor Barnard! Frontczak has 476 likes and followers on his page now!
Taking care of each other is now their job, instead of taking care of the wierwille family. Well......same thing really, since the only wierwille’s still living are all active in CFFM, SOWERS, or John Hagee Ministries......and these ex-wayfer cults are all intermarried with each other!
So, I agree, Skyrider. The splinters are worse in the sense that they have brewed and distilled wierwillean doctrinal and psychosocial perversion down into a slick, state-of-the-art megachurch con, as good and as far removed from what’s left of TWIt in New Knoxville and Gunnison. Makes it easier to “forgive” your old pals and overlook their current associations and alliances with cult-buddies and grifters from their glory daze in TWIt, boozin’ and sexin’ it up in the name of jeeezus and da holy spurt! Worse than hypocrites......cowardly, shameful enablers. Worse indeed, Skyrider. Worse indeed.
DWBH......metastasized indeed.
Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine." If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982].
Much like wierwille ...... when he calculated that he needed 6 more families to faithfully tithe ........ these splinter groups CALCULATE when they can have their **break-away** moment and BE IN CHARGE. What does it take? Faithful Tithing. Sponsorship. Big Donors. 80 people? 120 people?
Amass a group of followers.
Get dedicated followers to "spread the message."
If genuine......signs, miracles and wonders will follow.
If counterfeit......NEVER ALLOW THE MASK TO SLIP.
Start a radio show.
Establish a website.
Do weekly teachings.
Relentlessly tell people that YOU have the answers.
Network and ally with others for specific events.
Guard against zealous, competitive corps leadership.
Strategically distance yourself, and group, from the mother-ship.
........just like wierwille did, when he splintered from Leonard's work.
Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine." If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982].
I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.
I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.
Everything would have changed. He BRIEFLY (in the 1950s) talked about Ecumenical movements- he would have continued as ecumenical, giving Leonard and Stiles due credit, and claiming an eclectic group that did their best to incorporate the best of what each Christian ministry offered. If he reached out the the hippies, it would have been a joint effort and even-handed, and the results would still be felt to this day rather than having choked the vitality out of a nascent Christian movement.
From Skyrider: "Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine." If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982]."
Penworks: Just a small correction: Charl*e Quill#n was working at HQ on "Bless Patrol" while I was on staff 84-87. He didn't "split out on his own" until sometime after I escaped in 87. Wierwille died in 85, so VPW never knew Quill#n split.
Penworks..... thanks for that small correction. Charlie must have moved into more behind-the-scenes, administrative work.....because I don't recall him at hq after 1981. I remember those security guys like Doug MacM, John L., Brooks M., and David R......but not Charlie. Anyhoo....
But then.......after nearly 40 years, it's challenging to remember those security guys and bus drivers and body guards and valets and enablers.
When the Ambassador One pilot, John Ra-ce, split out........wierwille was ticked off. How dare he quit and go start a new life somewhere else. Same deal with some of those bodyguards.....specifically Jim Cr!m. Now THAT one.....I saw up close and remember quite vividly......
Quote
Another Wierwille Confrontation...
While at headquarters my final year of inresidence corps......a nightowl was scheduled in the Way Woods. The night was pleasant and, as we walked past the George Jess memorial, a crackling fire welcomed us with curling flames and warmth. For me, I was thankful to be outdoors and soak in the sounds and smells of nature.
As always, the corps coordinator handles the initial stages of corps gatherings before wierwille steps in. This seems to be standard twi protocol, much like a warm-up band takes the stage before the marquee band takes the music and crowd to a whole new level. Anyways, that is the way it's always done....and probably, will stay. When wierwille enters, he takes his chair and is flanked by the corps coordinator. Another couple of logs are placed on the fire to set the atmosphere, and the crickets chirp in the woods.
About an hour into the nightowl, as the serenity of the evening was peaking....none of us could foresee what was about to erupt! In the shadows behind wierwille was his aide, his bodyguard whose two-way radio blurted and screeched in the quiet night air. The "atmosphere" of the whole evening came to an abrupt halt; a meticulously planned nightowl was broken in an instant. Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.
This bodyguard was the same man wierwille had praised months before by saying, "He stands by my side, because he doesn't take sh!t from no one." So, the irony of this night loomed large as wierwille couldn't help but verbally attack his right-hand man. Why couldn't vpw just cover for the mistake? Or, better yet.....call attention to it as a big ooops! and move on? What made it so awkward was that wierwille was "caught in the headlights" and couldn't adjust to the moment. So, his anger came front and center!! To me, this fury revealed wierwille's character....something he worked a lifetime to hide.
The bodyguard? From what I heard from hq-staffers the next day, he packed up and left.
Vivid description of a livid eruption of ego. A monumental lack of poise. A person not overwhelmed with insecurity might have regained the moment and reset the desired mood simply by laughing it off.
Thanks for your posts, Penworks and Skyrider! Informative and enlightening.
I lived at HQ from 1979-1984, as both Midwest Region Coordinator and Trunk guy. During that entire time, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. Along with Scott Jarvis, Jim Peterson, Don Wierwille, MacMullan, and Geer, Quillen was a prime mover in getting his Bless Patrol Dept. legally and officially deputized by the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office, which effectively made Bless Patrol a Sherriff sanctionioned private police force made up of deputized members of the Shelby County Sherriff’s Office! They ALL had to successfully complete the Ohio Sherriff Deputies qualification and performance exams, which they did.
As I said, my entire time of post-in-rez time at HQ, 9/79-8/84, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. He was joined-at-the-hip with Geer and super-secret-double-probation-agent MacMullan the entire time I was there. ALL the sexual dalliances of ALL the “Trustees” were coordinated and “overseen” by these three Wierwille gestapos. There are scores of personal, eyewitness, firsthand accounts right here over the 19 years of GSC posts, which document the evil, and sometimes guilty stares, at vic’s victims as they marched off the Bunny Hatch, as Dotsie referred to the motor coach, by one or more of these loyal pimps for da MOG. Not one of them would hesitate for one second to put a bullet into ANYONE vic perceived as a threat. NOT ONE.
These days, it is ironic to note, that each one of those three hitman security guards and pimps, runs his own wierwille cult. Geer does his “Word Promotions” franchises out of Maine, Quillen runs his offshoot out of CFFM in Illinois, and Agent MacMullan helps run SOWERS on his family’s MS farm with V2P2, victor paul wierwille II, JP’s kid. And, then there’s Mark Frontczak, Victor Barnard’s right-hand man pedophilic sexual predator at their River Road Felliwship in Finlayson, MN. He was a very loyal and high profile Bless Patrol guy under Quillen. He also enabled and participated in the incredible Victor Barnard cult for nearly 20 years, for which Barnard himself now gets severely beat up in prison regularly, for just a few of the 59+ sexual crimes he committed with Frontczak’s help and support! Frontczak is now happily back with his former boss and the offshoot networks hawking his “spiritually right on” cartoons and acting as if he never heard of Barnard......kinda like trump never met or heard of any of his victims either. So, the wierwillean cults continue vic’s only legacy, lying about their faddah in da woid while continuing to pimp his Aryan, Nazi fundamentalist “Christian” cult.
So, the wierwillean legacy marches on through the scores of all these offshoot TWIt cults spread around the country. Thank God that the GSC is still here! Faithfully and factually telling the other side of the story of these destructive and immoral wierwille cults.
I got my sexual assault at a lower level that fall of 1979 at HQ. I mentioned some things about it yesterday in the language thread, since "loosened up" was specifically said about me. (I was not supposed to hear it said). My main assaulter (not VPW of course) is involved in an offshoot of sorts to this day. I can't help but wonder if Barnard later had some sort of loosening up in TWI...if he did, he no doubt went along with it instead of running and freezing like I did.
Thanks for your posts, Penworks and Skyrider! Informative and enlightening.
I lived at HQ from 1979-1984, as both Midwest Region Coordinator and Trunk guy. During that entire time, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. Along with Scott Jarvis, Jim Peterson, Don Wierwille, MacMullan, and Geer, Quillen was a prime mover in getting his Bless Patrol Dept. legally and officially deputized by the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office, which effectively made Bless Patrol a Sherriff sanctionioned private police force made up of deputized members of the Shelby County Sherriff’s Office! They ALL had to successfully complete the Ohio Sherriff Deputies qualification and performance exams, which they did.
As I said, my entire time of post-in-rez time at HQ, 9/79-8/84, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. He was joined-at-the-hip with Geer and super-secret-double-probation-agent MacMullan the entire time I was there. ALL the sexual dalliances of ALL the “Trustees” were coordinated and “overseen” by these three Wierwille gestapos. There are scores of personal, eyewitness, firsthand accounts right here over the 19 years of GSC posts, which document the evil, and sometimes guilty stares, at vic’s victims as they marched off the Bunny Hatch, as Dotsie referred to the motor coach, by one or more of these loyal pimps for da MOG. Not one of them would hesitate for one second to put a bullet into ANYONE vic perceived as a threat. NOT ONE.
These days, it is ironic to note, that each one of those three hitman security guards and pimps, runs his own wierwille cult. Geer does his “Word Promotions” franchises out of Maine, Quillen runs his offshoot out of CFFM in Illinois, and Agent MacMullan helps run SOWERS on his family’s MS farm with V2P2, victor paul wierwille II, JP’s kid. And, then there’s Mark Frontczak, Victor Barnard’s right-hand man pedophilic sexual predator at their River Road Felliwship in Finlayson, MN. He was a very loyal and high profile Bless Patrol guy under Quillen. He also enabled and participated in the incredible Victor Barnard cult for nearly 20 years, for which Barnard himself now gets severely beat up in prison regularly, for just a few of the 59+ sexual crimes he committed with Frontczak’s help and support! Frontczak is now happily back with his former boss and the offshoot networks hawking his “spiritually right on” cartoons and acting as if he never heard of Barnard......kinda like trump never met or heard of any of his victims either. So, the wierwillean cults continue vic’s only legacy, lying about their faddah in da woid while continuing to pimp his Aryan, Nazi fundamentalist “Christian” cult.
So, the wierwillean legacy marches on through the scores of all these offshoot TWIt cults spread around the country. Thank God that the GSC is still here! Faithfully and factually telling the other side of the story of these destructive and immoral wierwille cults.
DWBH..........ironic, indeed!
THOSE who were the most complicit to this evil and secrets........are STILL the most dedicated to this pseudo-Christian con.
Splinter Cults like these........lord over people who claim to "research the bible" but can't find common sense staring them in the face.
Charlie Qui!!€n has his own 501c3 in Illinois. “Faithful In Christ Ministries”. 2-300 followers. He hasn’t been with CFF for 4-5 years. Fell out with them over whether a Christian can talk or pray to Jesus and other differences.
He was po’d because he wasn’t installed as the new President after John $hroyer passed away and Wayne C!app resigned after serving as President for 3-4 years?
John $hroyer’s daughter in law became president then. Char!ie wasn’t going to follow a woman or anyone else that didn’t hold on to vpee’s doctrine.
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Back when lcm drove off 80% of twi in 88-89 with his "line in the sand", a fellow with the screen-name of Cesar Salad said he thought the biggest problem with lcm was that he wasn't able to get humbl
p l e r o o
Hello all, This is my first comment after finding these forums a few weeks ago. I was born in 1982 into a family that was part of TWI; my parents were part of a twig group in the Houston a
skyrider
Those who intentionally hide and dismiss wierwille's plagiarism, research foibles, and sexual predation AND have made it their business to lord over others.........THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS are worse! At
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JayDee
Twinky, I had the exact same conversation with J@nu@ry over 15 years ago, and very similar experiences with CFFM. For what it’s worth, I’m in complete agreement with you comments.
For decades she lived in fear of reprisals from TWI. Actually feared for her life. What a horrible way to live. To my knowledge she’s past that now.
From what I can see these days, CFFM is doing the best they can do to honor Jesus Christ in their small community of Christians as they continue to help those who were abused by TWI in any form.
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Kathy Niclaus
Twinky and Jaydee, please read the next post- Lifted Up had asked a specific question and I replied to it without including her quote. That is why I stated in my reply " In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on. Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial." My remark had absolutely nothing to do with the sexual abuse of LCM or anyone else, only VPW.
Edited by Kathy Niclausincorrect context quoted
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Kathy Niclaus
This is what was originally said to me by Lifted up and is the context in which I made the remark to Twinky in which that no remarks were made at my visit to CFFM in 2006 about the sexual abuse- the abuse by VPW- Sarah Guigou's father- I did not quote Lifted Up in my remarks, so maybe that is the cause of the confusion, but my remarks immediately follow her post in the thread in this forum topic. So in a sense, my remarks are not applicable to the case of J.-----B-----S. as discussed by Twinky.
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Kathy Niclaus
Well, guess who gets the reward for the glaring overlook this week? In all fairness, seriously, sometimes my brain jumbles stuff- when Lifted up first threw out the sexual assault remarks, duh, I didn't look to see that his gender was, uh, male. He said it happened in 1979, and it wasn't so much a thing back then for women to be doing the assaulting, so of course I just did the stupid thing and assumed he was a she. And then in one of his posts he mentioned another victim who is a she, so that's who I thought he was referencing with the pronoun "she" in the quote, not his assaulter. Even though he used proper English and preceded the pronoun with the noun. This is what happens when you answer stuff from your tablet in bed before coffee, after sleeping til a ridiculous time. I'm not even going to go into the stupid remark I made to him at Facebook messenger, which I will address with him there in private. Oy vey. Well, at least you all know that when I F up, if I catch it I will come out and do a mea culpa and correct it. And with my real name, imagine that!
I have had more involvement here at GreaseSpot since Friday, what, five days, than since I joined like two years ago. I better quit and start vacuuming my house.
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Lifted Up
When I first came onto Greasespot, like many getting on after Waydale, I wasn't talking about the sexual assault because I was still Waybrained and had not recalled it. But still, there was no gender listed under names and for whatever reason many assumed I was female. I corrected people on a couple of occasions but did not make a big deal of it. As females doing assaulting, Back then I guess the Way Corps was already getting VPW's "doctrine" that "men of God" (Way Corps) had to have their sexual needs fulfilled so they could properly do their work. I guess that was also roughly the time when, as I heard a lot of talk about in those early Greasespot days, that VPW told LCM he had to "loosen up". Well, I don't know for sure where the idea came from, but I got that "loosening up", i.e. sexual assault. It surely was just a game to the two involved, largely because of a corps stereotype...SAME one that exists in general society...that men are men and can't be hurt by sex because we are always so sex starved that it is doing us a favor to play those "games" and loosen us up. We talk about there gender stereotypes sometimes in my male survivor support group. But I was deeply emberassed...shamed...as I finally re-lived when I went over the "event" for the first time with my counselor just over a year and a half ago. Here is the clincher: after I finally escaped to my top bunk and re-froze, a little later the other men came in. It was after lights out, so everybody got ready for sleep in the dark. Then they started talking about the event, because the two women had told them all about what happened, again, as if it were a game. The guys did not know I was already quietly frozen in my bunk. Then I heard the them say specifically that it was good for me to be "loosened up". This is ONLY speculation, but I can't help but wonder if anything like this happened to Victor Barnard, perhaps with him going along with the "games" or "loosening up'" , thus later becoming the prolific abuser that he was in his own cult...and maybe with a lot less skill and authority in hiding the abuse that VPW displayed.
Kathy Niclaus, I am beginning to discover you are quite the caring person. Never mind what you believe or don't believe. And if you feel you made a mistake, maybe is was lack of coiffee's fault LOL! I have to get that in because I was a known lifelong NON coffe drinker, yet I was put in charge of the after-class coffee crew at Emporia for several months. It was during that stint one time that VPW drifted in from his coach and ""invited" (as if I could turn him down) me into the coach to eat a pastry. We didn't chat, I just ate while he worked. I guess they trusted me to make the coffee according to instruction, and figured as a non drinker I would not be tempted to alter its prescribed weakness? (and waste Way resources?)
One more thing. Obviously I was waybrained during my corps time. I think all of us were. I won't go into the details, but I would love to offer forgiveness on this event. But I am not sure it will ever go beyond me writing an unsent letter.
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Kathy Niclaus
Oh yeah, I care a lot, it's true. I am a smart foot though, and don't suffer fools lightly. The older I get the more like my mother I seem to be, it's amazing. Anyway, thank you for your kind observation, and here's one of my usual snarky ones- what was up with them serving coffee AFTER class? It should have been served before class! I have heard the many stories of people nodding off, WC working all day, I mean up at 5, running in the morning,l working all day, then class at night, who needs coffee at night? Sleep! Sleep is needed!
Speaking of coffee, I am on a totally whack sleeping schedule, and am off for my first cup of the day but it has to be decaf............
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Kathy Niclaus
What? The word is in the Bible?! Jesus rode one into Jerusalem! Why does the GS software censor that word? Jeez Louise.
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Modgellan
Hah, nobody knows, and I think it is the Invision software not just GSC. I recall there was a problem with typing Walter Cummins name for awhile.
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Lifted Up
The coffee was sometimes during breaks as well as after class, but certainly not before. I never got a call to do it before anyway. As for my "caring" remark, caring. as most people realize, caring does not necessarily consist only of sweet words. I have a friend...OK for now a FB fried, but she is a lifelong friend of my best survivor friend...who IMO has a great sensitivity to others who are hurting, and who at times expresses choice words at those doing the hurting. .
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Lifted Up
OK basic question for this topic. What is considered an offshoot and/or TWI related splinter group? My sexual assault happened in TWI, but one of my assaulters is involved in what I would consider one of them. Thus my spending time on this topic/thread. Whether or not a particular group has any TWI-ike sexual activity happening, I am interested in how they view the TWI stuff. Do they acknowledge it while saying they are clean, or do they refuse to acknowledge even the TWI hurts?
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skyrider
Wierwille despised the "Reverends" who left him/twi.
Any clergy who exited twi and, STILL, used the "reverend" title......wierwille denigrated.
The Wierwille Doctrine: Standing on The Word was ONLY available to those in twi's household. Period.
Read the December 1978 Corps Letter ------
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skyrider
All of these newly-exited corps are purposely dismissing The Wierwille Doctrine.
Corps teaching after corps teaching.....(and Sunday Service Teachings, too).......wierwille claimed that the ONLY WAY to "stand on the Word" was to remain faithful in the way international. If you left.....you went out into the dark night of the soul.
These corps, who've jumped into these new splinter cults (to try and make a splash)........are deceiving themselves. Wierwille could NOT have been more clear. If you left him/twi........you were "NOT on the Word." He relentlessly taught - - - "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
If you leave the ministry (twi).......YOU LEAVE THE WORD.
THAT is what wierwille taught.......(and that's why it was, as is, a cult).
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Rocky
I just read that 40-year old letter again. What struck me (slapped me in the face) this time was that Wierwille said, "I love you for who you are." Oooops, that's not it, instead he actually wrote, "I love you for the privilege and responsibility you have."
Edited by RockyWhat was that "privilege?" As he taught (indoctrinated) H.I.S. way corpse, the privilege was having been called to be "doulos." Literally a slave. One who no longer has freedom to make her/his own life choices.
Of course, in the indoctrination, it was slave to God. In practice, it was slave to Wierwille and his successors.
The reward for the slave? To serve the earthly master on the basis of a bass-ackward interpretation of what leadership is supposed to be... and what Wierwille and successors could con you into believing you'd get at the "Bema." When you stood before God for rewards in heaven. Not unlike the mythical 70 virgins another religion promised for heinous acts of terrorism.
Provide link for insight into "doulos"
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skyrider
DWBH......metastasized indeed.
Hearing of *Charlie Quillen* after all these years and "The Solution Radio Show"...... is another example of "everyone's got a psalm and doctrine." If I remember correctly, he is another one of those guys that wierwille despised for leaving hq and splitting out on his own [around 1981, 1982].
Much like wierwille ...... when he calculated that he needed 6 more families to faithfully tithe ........ these splinter groups CALCULATE when they can have their **break-away** moment and BE IN CHARGE. What does it take? Faithful Tithing. Sponsorship. Big Donors. 80 people? 120 people?
Amass a group of followers.
Get dedicated followers to "spread the message."
If genuine......signs, miracles and wonders will follow.
If counterfeit......NEVER ALLOW THE MASK TO SLIP.
Start a radio show.
Establish a website.
Do weekly teachings.
Relentlessly tell people that YOU have the answers.
Network and ally with others for specific events.
Guard against zealous, competitive corps leadership.
Strategically distance yourself, and group, from the mother-ship.
........just like wierwille did, when he splintered from Leonard's work.
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Rocky
I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.
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WordWolf
Everything would have changed. He BRIEFLY (in the 1950s) talked about Ecumenical movements- he would have continued as ecumenical, giving Leonard and Stiles due credit, and claiming an eclectic group that did their best to incorporate the best of what each Christian ministry offered. If he reached out the the hippies, it would have been a joint effort and even-handed, and the results would still be felt to this day rather than having choked the vitality out of a nascent Christian movement.
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penworks
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skyrider
Penworks..... thanks for that small correction. Charlie must have moved into more behind-the-scenes, administrative work.....because I don't recall him at hq after 1981. I remember those security guys like Doug MacM, John L., Brooks M., and David R......but not Charlie. Anyhoo....
But then.......after nearly 40 years, it's challenging to remember those security guys and bus drivers and body guards and valets and enablers.
When the Ambassador One pilot, John Ra-ce, split out........wierwille was ticked off. How dare he quit and go start a new life somewhere else. Same deal with some of those bodyguards.....specifically Jim Cr!m. Now THAT one.....I saw up close and remember quite vividly......
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Rocky
Vivid description of a livid eruption of ego. A monumental lack of poise. A person not overwhelmed with insecurity might have regained the moment and reset the desired mood simply by laughing it off.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Thanks for your posts, Penworks and Skyrider! Informative and enlightening.
I lived at HQ from 1979-1984, as both Midwest Region Coordinator and Trunk guy. During that entire time, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. Along with Scott Jarvis, Jim Peterson, Don Wierwille, MacMullan, and Geer, Quillen was a prime mover in getting his Bless Patrol Dept. legally and officially deputized by the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office, which effectively made Bless Patrol a Sherriff sanctionioned private police force made up of deputized members of the Shelby County Sherriff’s Office! They ALL had to successfully complete the Ohio Sherriff Deputies qualification and performance exams, which they did.
As I said, my entire time of post-in-rez time at HQ, 9/79-8/84, Quillen was the head of Bless Patrol. He was joined-at-the-hip with Geer and super-secret-double-probation-agent MacMullan the entire time I was there. ALL the sexual dalliances of ALL the “Trustees” were coordinated and “overseen” by these three Wierwille gestapos. There are scores of personal, eyewitness, firsthand accounts right here over the 19 years of GSC posts, which document the evil, and sometimes guilty stares, at vic’s victims as they marched off the Bunny Hatch, as Dotsie referred to the motor coach, by one or more of these loyal pimps for da MOG. Not one of them would hesitate for one second to put a bullet into ANYONE vic perceived as a threat. NOT ONE.
These days, it is ironic to note, that each one of those three hitman security guards and pimps, runs his own wierwille cult. Geer does his “Word Promotions” franchises out of Maine, Quillen runs his offshoot out of CFFM in Illinois, and Agent MacMullan helps run SOWERS on his family’s MS farm with V2P2, victor paul wierwille II, JP’s kid. And, then there’s Mark Frontczak, Victor Barnard’s right-hand man pedophilic sexual predator at their River Road Felliwship in Finlayson, MN. He was a very loyal and high profile Bless Patrol guy under Quillen. He also enabled and participated in the incredible Victor Barnard cult for nearly 20 years, for which Barnard himself now gets severely beat up in prison regularly, for just a few of the 59+ sexual crimes he committed with Frontczak’s help and support! Frontczak is now happily back with his former boss and the offshoot networks hawking his “spiritually right on” cartoons and acting as if he never heard of Barnard......kinda like trump never met or heard of any of his victims either. So, the wierwillean cults continue vic’s only legacy, lying about their faddah in da woid while continuing to pimp his Aryan, Nazi fundamentalist “Christian” cult.
So, the wierwillean legacy marches on through the scores of all these offshoot TWIt cults spread around the country. Thank God that the GSC is still here! Faithfully and factually telling the other side of the story of these destructive and immoral wierwille cults.
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Lifted Up
I got my sexual assault at a lower level that fall of 1979 at HQ. I mentioned some things about it yesterday in the language thread, since "loosened up" was specifically said about me. (I was not supposed to hear it said). My main assaulter (not VPW of course) is involved in an offshoot of sorts to this day. I can't help but wonder if Barnard later had some sort of loosening up in TWI...if he did, he no doubt went along with it instead of running and freezing like I did.
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skyrider
DWBH..........ironic, indeed!
THOSE who were the most complicit to this evil and secrets........are STILL the most dedicated to this pseudo-Christian con.
Splinter Cults like these........lord over people who claim to "research the bible" but can't find common sense staring them in the face.
Ugh.
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JayDee
Charlie Qui!!€n has his own 501c3 in Illinois. “Faithful In Christ Ministries”. 2-300 followers. He hasn’t been with CFF for 4-5 years. Fell out with them over whether a Christian can talk or pray to Jesus and other differences.
He was po’d because he wasn’t installed as the new President after John $hroyer passed away and Wayne C!app resigned after serving as President for 3-4 years?
John $hroyer’s daughter in law became president then. Char!ie wasn’t going to follow a woman or anyone else that didn’t hold on to vpee’s doctrine.
He’s only after the $$$.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Thanks for the current and correct info on Quillen’s offshoot Of CFFM, JayDee. I didn’t realize they had a split with one another.
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