Considering the history of vpw's group, its "scraping by" years exceeded its successful years.
He started, IIRC, in 1941. In 1942 AND 1943 (I may be off and it was 1941 and 1942), vpw claims he considered giving up. If he told the truth, he certainly didn't have much endurance to "run the race." Imagine if anyone else went to HIM talking about quitting, what a failure he'd make them out to be, especially the SECOND time.
He claimed to have heard from God Almighty in 1942, and STILL nothing took off. He continued for several years in the denomination, while doing side-projects for over a decade, with a radio show, editing the work of Bible teachers, and so on. A few years after he was able to deed the family farm to HIS ministry, (time to do work around it), he went out on his own, and complained that he wasn't getting enough tithes to do the job. Even after stealing Leonard's class and Stiles' book, he had lukewarm results. If he hadn't hijacked the hippies around 1969-1970, he would have vanished into history, another would-be "giant" of history nobody's ever heard of.
So, 1941-1969 is 28 years of lukewarm results and skating by.
1969-1982 is 13 years of success- built on the backs of others whom he deceived, and those years ended with him bitter and neglected just as he'd neglected so many others down the decades.
Considering the history of vpw's group, its "scraping by" years exceeded its successful years.
He started, IIRC, in 1941. In 1942 AND 1943 (I may be off and it was 1941 and 1942), vpw claims he considered giving up. If he told the truth, he certainly didn't have much endurance to "run the race." Imagine if anyone else went to HIM talking about quitting, what a failure he'd make them out to be, especially the SECOND time.
He claimed to have heard from God Almighty in 1942, and STILL nothing took off. He continued for several years in the denomination, while doing side-projects for over a decade, with a radio show, editing the work of Bible teachers, and so on. A few years after he was able to deed the family farm to HIS ministry, (time to do work around it), he went out on his own, and complained that he wasn't getting enough tithes to do the job. Even after stealing Leonard's class and Stiles' book, he had lukewarm results. If he hadn't hijacked the hippies around 1969-1970, he would have vanished into history, another would-be "giant" of history nobody's ever heard of.
So, 1941-1969 is 28 years of lukewarm results and skating by.
1969-1982 is 13 years of success- built on the backs of others whom he deceived, and those years ended with him bitter and neglected just as he'd neglected so many others down the decades.
Perhaps all because -- even though he saw it in the scripture -- he failed at the two greatest commandments. Didn't he define that kind of thing as idolatry?
It's probably also tied directly (btwn any given person's ears) to failure to maintain humility.
Considering the history of vpw's group, its "scraping by" years exceeded its successful years.
........
YES.......it could easily be deemed that the majority of wierwille's "ministry years" (1941-1982) were barely "scraping by."
1941- 1957.......pastoring at Payne, OH and Van Wert, OH.
1948......with vpw heading to Pikes Peak to receive his degree-mill doctorate from Pikes Peak....his Dad bought them a new 1948 Chevrolet.
With 3 kids in tow.....Dotsie claimed in her book that it was "an exceptional summer" [driving to Colorado and then, to Camp Farthest Out in MN]
Sep 1955 - Apr 1956......sold some of their furniture and vpw's car to make this India itinerary [mounting further dissention with the church board]
Dec 1957......moved to rental house at 649 South Washington Street in Van Wert, OH [... rent payments - - vpw was 41 yrs old]
Jan 1958 - March 1972 .........arguably, "struggling years" by most measures.
........by November 1958, wierwille is pleading in his mailer for 6 more families to faithfully tithe and help him meet expenses.
........for several years, wierwille was traveling from state-to-state to run his [Leonard's] foundational class to church-goers.
........and, people were endangered helping the wierwilles move IN A BLIZZARD ...... in February 1961, to the wierwille homestead.
........when pfal was filmed in 1967, every aspect was on a strict time limit...studio, lighting, furniture.....because of MONEY CONSTRAINTS.
........in fact, the desk wierwille used was "purchased" for this filming......and then, RETURNED after the filming was done
........and......in was this LACK OF MONEY that caused vpw to make foolish decisions and burn his eyes during filming!!!
Much more could be added to this list.
All throughout Mrs. W's book.........the lack of money, i.e. "scraping by" comes to the foreground of nearly every decision made.
Why March 1972? What changed?
It was the coup of Steve and Sandi Heefner in March 1972, during the Rye, NY advanced class......when things REALLY changed for vpw (imo).
"The Way East (Heefner) and the Way West were INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations, completely and legally separate from wierwille and new Knoxville. When Wierwille threw them out under the cover of his AC show, moneyhands, coward allen and dictor paul formed a new corporation The Way of NY, which was "owned" by new knoxville now. The Way East also included the states of New England, NJ, DE, & PA. All those states were also "incorporated under "the Way international" as subsidiaries in their own right, thus accomplishing the corporate takeover of The Way East with the "M&A-ing" of the Heefner's and consolidating all control to dictor paul and the BOT, which at that time was Ermal and Harry. Remember, those three were the ONLY official members of TWI at that time." [ from DWBH -- "Mark n Avoid" thread]
So, yeah......most all of wierwille's "ministry years" were LEAN YEARS and the scales tipped in his favor when wierwille confiscated Heefner's and Doop's INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations as his own. Jim Doop posted here at GSC years ago that wierwille blatantly lied and went back on his word.....85% of abs was to stay in The Way West and 15% was to be sent to the way international.
Wierwille and TWI have whitewashed all of this......to exalt vpw's image and legacy.
Splinter cults whitewash it as well.........the leaders are hanging onto wierwille's coattails for dear life (and livelihood).
So, yeah......most all of wierwille's "ministry years" were LEAN YEARS and the scales tipped in his favor when wierwille confiscated Heefner's and Doop's INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations as his own. Jim Doop posted here at GSC years ago that wierwille blatantly lied and went back on his word.....85% of abs was to stay in The Way West and 15% was to be sent to the way international.
This was Jim Doop's last post.
.......[bold-faced for emphasis]
Quote
Originally posted by jimdoop:
Since it's my birthday, I would like to make a brief note. I turned 68 today- the same age as Victor when he passed away. I made my stand against him when he went back on his word and changed what he had taught me and many others. THAT was when the love and grace went out of his ministry. He set himself as the MAN OF GOD, and stopped acknowledging other men of God's contributions to his spiritual development.
I saw this coming in 1969. 1971 was when I heard his plan-how he was going to take over the states rights of all the fellowships, and he was going to control all of the states and their MONEY.
(That is, was, and always will be the root of ALL evil.) I was receiving more money into THE WAY WEST then he was at headquarters. The agreement was that I-"THE WAY WEST" would send H.Q. 15% each month, for abundant sharing each month. I did this every month. I kept my word.
I had spent 15 years in the "real world", and had learned enough to know that people lie, cheat, and steal. Victor was so sincere that I gave him a chance to prove himself. I believe that is what most of us did. As things worked out, he failed. His word wasn't any good. He taught one thing and did another.
All of are hearts have been broken-but not by God. His Word is always faithful. His Word is always truth. His promises work just as well today as they always have for getting the rent or house payment paid. Please all of you keep your brain and heart on God's Word. He loves us and will always bring us to victory. Filled with the power of the HOLY SPIRIT. we THE BELIEVERS, have been given enormous power in this age of DARKNESS. Be prepared. LOVE GOD AND YOUR FAMILY OF GOD.
Thanks for putting up with me, and I hope you heard my message. We cannot expect any help from anyone other then from GOD. If you know of anything better, please contact me, .. at jddpp@yahoo.com
Really appreciate this and other posts I have been reading on this lovely Sunday a.m. Helping me to continue to detach and let go of the fantasy of the ideal safe place I naively took shelter in so long ago... Yes, God and Jesus are the only fully Safe Places.
THAT is the essence of leaving TWI. I don't think the R&R guys and gals are generally prepared to do that.
So true...........they are just not EQUIPPED with the right tools and ropes to get out of this cult rut and rot.
THAT is why GSC is so damn important!
More than three decades of splinter cults.......Lynn, Finn3gan, Seed, Carr, Burt0n, Hendricks, Rea-hard, Rood, Sann, Sides, Quillen, McMullan, Geer, etc, etc........and now, the latest two groups, Magnelli via Oikeos and these ex-corps coordinators spearheading R&R. Years and years of more involvement and fellowship....followship UNTIL the indoctrination (Momentus) or scandal became too blatantly obvious. And then, a mini-exodus from a mini-splinter cult. Some have died. Some have faded away.
I find it incredulous that believers (cough, cough)....indoctrinated followers STILL are trapped in this mindset. Don't they read others books and material besides the wierwille books and class syllabi? Don't they have an independent thought that they can call their own? How rigid and boring it must be to go thru life having others dictate the boundaries of your existence (rut).
Looking back on all this......as I've stated before, "I tend to see wierwille in terms of his narcissist pathologies to acquire power and dominance over others. It was only after he had "cornered the market" of stolen and plagiarized work from others that his "ministry" came to the fore and he made greater strides of controlling others. Dependence on twi was the alpha and omega.........not independence. Everything in the cult was a sequence..........of followship. Not once in all my years in twi did any leader encourage me to "go to the Lord in prayer." Every cog in the twi-machine functions on OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE-DOCTRINE..........not biblical authority."
Cults, like twi, do their level best to always keep "their people" in submission. Dependence was the name of their game.......not INDEPENDENCE. To offer advice/counseling that one "should seek the Lord in prayer".....is to relinquish control of that follower (to seek the Lord). With each passing year, wierwille devised a set of one-liners that he accentuated over and over again. Along with the "man of God DOCTRINE".......he commandeered the authority of one who speaks for God (yeah, right). Slick, deceptive con. And, all of his lieutenants marched in lockstep.
But hey......that's what cults do.
What were all those cult buzz-lines back then?
It's the Word, the Word.....and nothing but the Word.
Lift Lists? Sure.....with vpw and trustees at top of list.
VPW quote......"If you're wrong, I will tell you."
The Word = bible verses filtered thru twi's classes and material
Corps Research Papers......had to be sanctioned by "research advisors"
Corps Research Papers......had to be rooted in pfal material, not "new" stuff
Not once......did any corps leadership direct me to "seek the Lord in prayer" concerning corps assignments, department issues, courtship/marriage, etc. We were simply railroaded to obey leadership.....always. Heck, even as late as March 2017.......Moynihan, Fort and Horney refer .....2. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. THAT was what it was like at hq back in 1980-1984 as well. Wierwille had absolute power to pull all the levers of power at his command.
The Way International WAS and IS a cult......using the subtle power of spiritual abuse.
In twi, they looked at prayer.....in terms, of Lift Lists. Mechanical, contrived, obedience.
Looking back.....I can hardly believe how crazy and controlled it really was.
Who are you to call anyone posting on GSC a liar?
Having delusions, are you, Rocky? Very plainly, I did no such thing.
And speaking of arrogance, seems you're familiar enough with it.
Or what is it that you think gives your questioning a post here such righteous preeminence over my questioning of a post?
Having delusions, are you, Rocky? Very plainly, I did no such thing.
And speaking of arrogance, seems you're familiar enough with it.
Or what is it that you think gives your questioning a post here such righteous preeminence over my questioning of a post?
Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.
Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.
I think your original analysis is accurate. That is how both cult and sexual assault survivors are called liars. The idea is to throw doubt into the survivor's testimony, and point out all the years that have passed to suggest nobody can remember details that far back. Then, the real key...even if the question is answered ("nope...not once") the accuser(s)' last word is far from being given.
On 5/29/2019 at 3:47 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
......
Taking care of each other is now their job, instead of taking care of the wierwille family. Well......same thing really, since the only wierwille’s still living are all active in CFFM, SOWERS, or John Hagee Ministries......and these ex-wayfer cults are all intermarried with each other!
........
That's the thing about being ensnared in a cult for 30-45 years.......all of your "support systems" are cult-related whereas business/community systems are deemed "worldly" or anathema. So, even though you exit mothership-cult....victims are grasping at any support floating by and voila, another splinter cult just happens to extend a "helping hand."
And, for many.....all those years of distancing themselves from "earthly family" doesn't help. Or, by now......parents are deceased and relatives are complete strangers.
At gatherings, weddings and funerals.......it is quite possible that you bump into two or three ex-wayfers who are each involved in a different splinter cult. But hey..... as long as they're not involved with *The Way International* then they lock arms with fellow-comrades who "saw the light and got out."
The real rogue individuals are NOT those who have no affiliation with any splinter group but ........THOSE WHO PULL THE CURTAIN BACK ON WIERWILLE'S PLAGIARISM, PROPAGANDA AND PREDATORY WAYS TO SPOTLIGHT THE CON.
Welcome to GSC......where the rubber meets the road, Defiant Rogues Inc.
The only “plan” these wierwillean hacks and Nazi bigots have, is to continue the malignant paranoid narcissism and serial misogyny and sexual predation of their religious bigot idol and fuhrer, Herr wierwille the First. They have NO IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. They have no moral compass of their own, and they reside in the “intellectual” swamp of Aryan Nazi theology and practice. They are what their “man’o’gawd” ordained them to be. Perverted Nazi religious bigots and mental terrorists, in “IT” only for the money and the free sex, and the personality cult of a severely mentally ill pervert. They brought nothing to TWIt but their personal hates and fears and pathologies. That’s all they ever “contributed” because that’s all they ever had to “give”. They are the epitome of what a “seared conscience” is and has to offer this world. They are a cancer in the Body of Christ. They are a blight to our nation and to humanity. They are uncharged and unconvicted criminals. They are guilty. Anyone who covers for, protects, excuses, or apologizes fir them is as guilty as they are imo. Lynn, Wrenn, Reahard, Pierce, Walker, Quillen, Frontczak, Barnard, Finnegan, Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, Joe Block, Maurice Goulet, Terry & Melanie Wilson, MacMullan, Geer, Jerry Carr, Strzepeks, Geer, Backes, and on and on and on. They are all diseased wierwille-worshipping lying cowards and thieves.
Skyrider is right!
2 hours ago, skyrider said:
Today's splinter groups have the SAME plan...........followship masquerading as fellowship.
The only “plan” these wierwillean hacks and Nazi bigots have, is to continue the malignant paranoid narcissism and serial misogyny and sexual predation of their religious bigot idol and fuhrer, Herr wierwille the First. They have NO IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. They have no moral compass of their own, and they reside in the “intellectual” swamp of Aryan Nazi theology and practice. They are what their “man’o’gawd” ordained them to be. Perverted Nazi religious bigots and mental terrorists, in “IT” only for the money and the free sex, and the personality cult of a severely mentally ill pervert. They brought nothing to TWIt but their personal hates and fears and pathologies. That’s all they ever “contributed” because that’s all they ever had to “give”. They are the epitome of what a “seared conscience” is and has to offer this world. They are a cancer in the Body of Christ. They are a blight to our nation and to humanity. They are uncharged and unconvicted criminals. They are guilty. Anyone who covers for, protects, excuses, or apologizes fir them is as guilty as they are imo. Lynn, Wrenn, Reahard, Pierce, Walker, Quillen, Frontczak, Barnard, Finnegan, Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, Joe Block, Maurice Goulet, Terry & Melanie Wilson, MacMullan, Geer, Jerry Carr, Strzepeks, Geer, Backes, and on and on and on. They are all diseased wierwille-worshipping lying cowards and thieves.
Skyrider is right!
I'll say this; you name names. You don;t seperate Barnard, but from the rest of you post I certainly understand why. I recognize several names, including that couple. The reason I mention Barnard is that your grouping him in with the others goes with the fact that to a survivor, ignoring rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse can hurt as much...even more....than the original act. I suppose I should consider my prime assaulter in the "on and on and on" group.
Did any twi leader encourage YOU to go to God in prayer?
If so....would you be so kind as to give us the details.
Thanks.
To put it bluntly, unless you're trying to make some strange point about it being or using those exact words, there were so many times that I was asked "Did you pray about it," or that I overheard it being said to others, or that I asked it of someone else, at this stage in life it would be exceedingly difficulty (and pointless) to differentiate between them. Evidently I must have been around an entirely different genre of people back in those days, ..or I'm totally insane, and my memory of those days (and my life) is somehow entirely wrong and perverted.
Or maybe it's simply a matter of what one actually heard, and/or might have paid attention to at the time when certain words were spoken.
When did they stop using (or calling it) "Third Aid"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems I recall there being a "third aid" tent at Rock of Ages festivals. Did no one hear ever hear of it, or the reason why it was called that instead of the First Aid tent? Did no one else here ever ask anyone else in the ministry "did you pray about it"?
ENTER into the world of The Way Ministry's Doublespeak.
The language that deliberately obscures.
Phrases that use sleight-of-hand to disguise.
Descriptions that intend to distort.
Definitions that reverse the meaning of words.
The Way = The Way International (a follower by twi-servitude)
The Way = the Lord Jesus Christ (a follower by making him lord of your life)
HERE is how to be a follower of The Way International............. : "The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God."
NOW.......look at the Doublespeak of wierwille's use of phrases and words to define his "ministry":
the more abundant life
manifests power from on high
spiritual nurture and growth
renewing of the mind
the Word of God
Wierwille/twi has obscured and distorted each one of those terms in class presentation (pfal).
Is "the more abundant life" physical or spiritual? Wierwille "looked around" and states (in pfal) that he SAW PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT CHRISTIAN living more of an abundant life that the church-going Christians.
Is "manifesting power from on high" simply speaking in tongues in a believer's meeting......or is it a DAILY walk with your lord, mediator and savior Jesus Christ doing that which is pleasing to our Heavenly Father, loving and serving Him?
Is "spiritual nurture and growth" defined by taking all of twi's classes and THEN, upgraded classes years later? Or, is it more deeply embedded in a deep, trusting spiritual relationship with our Father walking in His love and His light?
Is "renewing of the mind" simply a matter of adhering to pfal material and twi's claptrap? Or, is it a moment-by-moment process (enlightenment?) of trusting Him and letting His will be done in our lives (as a vessel - pouring out in service to another)?
Is "the Word of God" merely the teachings and plagiarized material from victor paul wierwille? Or, is it far-superior and excellent in power, deliverance and fulfillment as prophets of old spoke as they were moved via the holy spirit....whereby we have some of that mighty Word of God today in the written holy scripture?
I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it......
I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was distorted, obscured and twisted.....
I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it......
I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was distorted, obscured and twisted.....
I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
Excellent points Skyrider…the word “parasite” came to mind…I firmly believe wierwille/TWI/PFAL etc. are parasitic in nature…from the internet:
1. an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.
"the parasite attaches itself to the mouths of fishes" ·
2. derogatory
a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.
"the capitalist is really a parasite on the workers"
My involvement with TWI was an exercise in how to install a filter on your perception. Stick with them long enough and you only see what they want you to see. That’s the parasite’s cloaking device.
Thanks, T-Bone...........yeah, "parasitic in nature."
Even twi's definition of "The Way'........strives to supplant their meaning, and strategy of "fellowship meetings," of those desiring to be true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Rather than elevating the spiritual nature and manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us as "sons of God" ( I John 3:1 ).....this twi-definition confines and restricts learning and growth to attendance of fellowships meetings for spiritual nurture and growth (cough, cough).
Supplanted to follow in the steps of another man-made religion. Thanks wierwille.......pppffffftttt. SSDD
UPDATE:
I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it......
I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was restrictive with attempts to supplant followers into twi-adulation and servitude.
I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
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WordWolf
Back when lcm drove off 80% of twi in 88-89 with his "line in the sand", a fellow with the screen-name of Cesar Salad said he thought the biggest problem with lcm was that he wasn't able to get humbl
p l e r o o
Hello all, This is my first comment after finding these forums a few weeks ago. I was born in 1982 into a family that was part of TWI; my parents were part of a twig group in the Houston a
skyrider
Those who intentionally hide and dismiss wierwille's plagiarism, research foibles, and sexual predation AND have made it their business to lord over others.........THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS are worse! At
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WordWolf
Considering the history of vpw's group, its "scraping by" years exceeded its successful years.
He started, IIRC, in 1941. In 1942 AND 1943 (I may be off and it was 1941 and 1942), vpw claims he considered giving up. If he told the truth, he certainly didn't have much endurance to "run the race." Imagine if anyone else went to HIM talking about quitting, what a failure he'd make them out to be, especially the SECOND time.
He claimed to have heard from God Almighty in 1942, and STILL nothing took off. He continued for several years in the denomination, while doing side-projects for over a decade, with a radio show, editing the work of Bible teachers, and so on. A few years after he was able to deed the family farm to HIS ministry, (time to do work around it), he went out on his own, and complained that he wasn't getting enough tithes to do the job. Even after stealing Leonard's class and Stiles' book, he had lukewarm results. If he hadn't hijacked the hippies around 1969-1970, he would have vanished into history, another would-be "giant" of history nobody's ever heard of.
So, 1941-1969 is 28 years of lukewarm results and skating by.
1969-1982 is 13 years of success- built on the backs of others whom he deceived, and those years ended with him bitter and neglected just as he'd neglected so many others down the decades.
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Rocky
Perhaps all because -- even though he saw it in the scripture -- he failed at the two greatest commandments. Didn't he define that kind of thing as idolatry?
It's probably also tied directly (btwn any given person's ears) to failure to maintain humility.
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skyrider
YES.......it could easily be deemed that the majority of wierwille's "ministry years" (1941-1982) were barely "scraping by."
Much more could be added to this list.
All throughout Mrs. W's book.........the lack of money, i.e. "scraping by" comes to the foreground of nearly every decision made.
Why March 1972? What changed?
So, yeah......most all of wierwille's "ministry years" were LEAN YEARS and the scales tipped in his favor when wierwille confiscated Heefner's and Doop's INDEPENDENT 501(c)3 corporations as his own. Jim Doop posted here at GSC years ago that wierwille blatantly lied and went back on his word.....85% of abs was to stay in The Way West and 15% was to be sent to the way international.
Wierwille and TWI have whitewashed all of this......to exalt vpw's image and legacy.
Splinter cults whitewash it as well.........the leaders are hanging onto wierwille's coattails for dear life (and livelihood).
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skyrider
This was Jim Doop's last post.
.......[bold-faced for emphasis]
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annio
Really appreciate this and other posts I have been reading on this lovely Sunday a.m. Helping me to continue to detach and let go of the fantasy of the ideal safe place I naively took shelter in so long ago... Yes, God and Jesus are the only fully Safe Places.
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skyrider
So true...........they are just not EQUIPPED with the right tools and ropes to get out of this cult rut and rot.
THAT is why GSC is so damn important!
More than three decades of splinter cults.......Lynn, Finn3gan, Seed, Carr, Burt0n, Hendricks, Rea-hard, Rood, Sann, Sides, Quillen, McMullan, Geer, etc, etc........and now, the latest two groups, Magnelli via Oikeos and these ex-corps coordinators spearheading R&R. Years and years of more involvement and
fellowship....followship UNTIL the indoctrination (Momentus) or scandal became too blatantly obvious. And then, a mini-exodus from a mini-splinter cult. Some have died. Some have faded away.I find it incredulous that
believers(cough, cough)....indoctrinated followers STILL are trapped in this mindset. Don't they read others books and material besides the wierwille books and class syllabi? Don't they have an independent thought that they can call their own? How rigid and boring it must be to go thru life having others dictate the boundaries of your existence (rut).Looking back on all this......as I've stated before, "I tend to see wierwille in terms of his narcissist pathologies to acquire power and dominance over others. It was only after he had "cornered the market" of stolen and plagiarized work from others that his "ministry" came to the fore and he made greater strides of controlling others. Dependence on twi was the alpha and omega.........not independence. Everything in the cult was a sequence..........of followship. Not once in all my years in twi did any leader encourage me to "go to the Lord in prayer." Every cog in the twi-machine functions on OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE-DOCTRINE..........not biblical authority."
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TLC
You weren't in so late that, quite frankly... I find that rather hard to believe of you.
You were at HQ. Are you absolutely sure your memory isn't just a wee bit hazy or tainted on that LB?
Yeah, TWI had issues. But... not even once?
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skyrider
Nope.......not once.
Cults, like twi, do their level best to always keep "their people" in submission. Dependence was the name of their game.......not INDEPENDENCE. To offer advice/counseling that one "should seek the Lord in prayer".....is to relinquish control of that follower (to seek the Lord). With each passing year, wierwille devised a set of one-liners that he accentuated over and over again. Along with the "man of God DOCTRINE".......he commandeered the authority of one who speaks for God (yeah, right). Slick, deceptive con. And, all of his lieutenants marched in lockstep.
But hey......that's what cults do.
What were all those cult buzz-lines back then?
Not once......did any corps leadership direct me to "seek the Lord in prayer" concerning corps assignments, department issues, courtship/marriage, etc. We were simply railroaded to obey leadership.....always. Heck, even as late as March 2017.......Moynihan, Fort and Horney refer .....2. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. THAT was what it was like at hq back in 1980-1984 as well. Wierwille had absolute power to pull all the levers of power at his command.
The Way International WAS and IS a cult......using the subtle power of spiritual abuse.
In twi, they looked at prayer.....in terms, of Lift Lists. Mechanical, contrived, obedience.
Looking back.....I can hardly believe how crazy and controlled it really was.
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Rocky
Seriously? Who are you to call anyone posting on GSC a liar? That comment seems extraordinarily arrogant.
Did anyone encourage you to go to God in prayer?
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TLC
Having delusions, are you, Rocky? Very plainly, I did no such thing.
And speaking of arrogance, seems you're familiar enough with it.
Or what is it that you think gives your questioning a post here such righteous preeminence over my questioning of a post?
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Rocky
Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.
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skyrider
So.....TLC
Did any twi leader encourage YOU to go to God in prayer?
If so....would you be so kind as to give us the details.
Thanks.
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Lifted Up
I think your original analysis is accurate. That is how both cult and sexual assault survivors are called liars. The idea is to throw doubt into the survivor's testimony, and point out all the years that have passed to suggest nobody can remember details that far back. Then, the real key...even if the question is answered ("nope...not once") the accuser(s)' last word is far from being given.
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skyrider
That's the thing about being ensnared in a cult for 30-45 years.......all of your "support systems" are cult-related whereas business/community systems are deemed "worldly" or anathema. So, even though you exit mothership-cult....victims are grasping at any support floating by and voila, another splinter cult just happens to extend a "helping hand."
And, for many.....all those years of distancing themselves from "earthly family" doesn't help. Or, by now......parents are deceased and relatives are complete strangers.
At gatherings, weddings and funerals.......it is quite possible that you bump into two or three ex-wayfers who are each involved in a different splinter cult. But hey..... as long as they're not involved with *The Way International* then they lock arms with fellow-comrades who "saw the light and got out."
The real rogue individuals are NOT those who have no affiliation with any splinter group but ........THOSE WHO PULL THE CURTAIN BACK ON WIERWILLE'S PLAGIARISM, PROPAGANDA AND PREDATORY WAYS TO SPOTLIGHT THE CON.
Welcome to GSC......where the rubber meets the road, Defiant Rogues Inc.
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waysider
All too true.
Re: going to the Lord in prayer.
What we were encouraged to do was recite our lift list while speaking in tongues.
In retrospect, it now seems more like we were trying to invoke some sort of magical spell.
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skyrider
Everything in the cult was a sequence..........of followship.
By the mid-90s........the insanity of followship went to new heights.
A believer is a follower......and a good follower is a good believer. Indoctrination Complete.
TWI never had a corps leadership program. It was ALL a fabricated scam.
Today's splinter groups have the SAME plan...........followship masquerading as fellowship.
Edited by skyriderEdit: Not Daily, but WEEKLY schedule in 15 minute increments
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DontWorryBeHappy
The only “plan” these wierwillean hacks and Nazi bigots have, is to continue the malignant paranoid narcissism and serial misogyny and sexual predation of their religious bigot idol and fuhrer, Herr wierwille the First. They have NO IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. They have no moral compass of their own, and they reside in the “intellectual” swamp of Aryan Nazi theology and practice. They are what their “man’o’gawd” ordained them to be. Perverted Nazi religious bigots and mental terrorists, in “IT” only for the money and the free sex, and the personality cult of a severely mentally ill pervert. They brought nothing to TWIt but their personal hates and fears and pathologies. That’s all they ever “contributed” because that’s all they ever had to “give”. They are the epitome of what a “seared conscience” is and has to offer this world. They are a cancer in the Body of Christ. They are a blight to our nation and to humanity. They are uncharged and unconvicted criminals. They are guilty. Anyone who covers for, protects, excuses, or apologizes fir them is as guilty as they are imo. Lynn, Wrenn, Reahard, Pierce, Walker, Quillen, Frontczak, Barnard, Finnegan, Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, Joe Block, Maurice Goulet, Terry & Melanie Wilson, MacMullan, Geer, Jerry Carr, Strzepeks, Geer, Backes, and on and on and on. They are all diseased wierwille-worshipping lying cowards and thieves.
Skyrider is right!
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Lifted Up
I'll say this; you name names. You don;t seperate Barnard, but from the rest of you post I certainly understand why. I recognize several names, including that couple. The reason I mention Barnard is that your grouping him in with the others goes with the fact that to a survivor, ignoring rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse can hurt as much...even more....than the original act. I suppose I should consider my prime assaulter in the "on and on and on" group.
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TLC
To put it bluntly, unless you're trying to make some strange point about it being or using those exact words, there were so many times that I was asked "Did you pray about it," or that I overheard it being said to others, or that I asked it of someone else, at this stage in life it would be exceedingly difficulty (and pointless) to differentiate between them. Evidently I must have been around an entirely different genre of people back in those days, ..or I'm totally insane, and my memory of those days (and my life) is somehow entirely wrong and perverted.
Or maybe it's simply a matter of what one actually heard, and/or might have paid attention to at the time when certain words were spoken.
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TLC
yeah, right. you got me all figured out...
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TLC
When did they stop using (or calling it) "Third Aid"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems I recall there being a "third aid" tent at Rock of Ages festivals. Did no one hear ever hear of it, or the reason why it was called that instead of the First Aid tent? Did no one else here ever ask anyone else in the ministry "did you pray about it"?
Please tell me it's not so...
Edited by TLCLink to comment
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skyrider
You WANT to be a believer?
You HAVE to be a follower?
ENTER into the world of The Way Ministry's Doublespeak.
The Way = The Way International (a follower by twi-servitude)
The Way = the Lord Jesus Christ (a follower by making him lord of your life)
HERE is how to be a follower of The Way International............. : "The Way is a fellowship of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ for the manifestation of the more abundant life. A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth. The Way fellowship is cemented together by the Spirit of God with each individual believer being transformed by the renewing of his mind according to the Word of God."
NOW.......look at the Doublespeak of wierwille's use of phrases and words to define his "ministry":
Wierwille/twi has obscured and distorted each one of those terms in class presentation (pfal).
I believe that some of what I was taught in pfal/twi had a basis of truth in it......
I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was distorted, obscured and twisted.....
I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
.
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T-Bone
Excellent points Skyrider…the word “parasite” came to mind…I firmly believe wierwille/TWI/PFAL etc. are parasitic in nature…from the internet:
1. an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.
"the parasite attaches itself to the mouths of fishes" ·
2. derogatory
a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.
"the capitalist is really a parasite on the workers"
My involvement with TWI was an exercise in how to install a filter on your perception. Stick with them long enough and you only see what they want you to see. That’s the parasite’s cloaking device.
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skyrider
Thanks, T-Bone...........yeah, "parasitic in nature."
Even twi's definition of "The Way'........strives to supplant their meaning, and strategy of "fellowship meetings," of those desiring to be true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Rather than elevating the spiritual nature and manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us as "sons of God" ( I John 3:1 ).....this twi-definition confines and restricts learning and growth to attendance of fellowships meetings for spiritual nurture and growth (cough, cough).
Supplanted to follow in the steps of another man-made religion. Thanks wierwille.......pppffffftttt. SSDD
UPDATE:
I believe that much of what I was taught in pfal/twi was restrictive with attempts to supplant followers into twi-adulation and servitude.
I believe that most of what I was taught in pfal/twi wilts in significance to what is truly "power from on high"....and truly, The Word of God.
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