They can't go beyond their teaching, regurgitating what they first heard nearly 50 years ago, in other words, they are stuck and can't think for themselves, exploring other avenues of life.
They can't go beyond their teaching, regurgitating what they first heard nearly 50 years ago, in other words, they are stuck and can't think for themselves, exploring other avenues of life.
With no one adding to the comments section about the teachings
When dozens of corps signed that March 2017 letter to twi's board of directors........how many of them are ALREADY gone from this R&R group? I would wager a guess of 60%. Oh sure, they might show up for a teaching or two in their local area........but who wants to fly into Nevada for a bloviating yawnfest? Who is going to head out the door for some witnessing to bring others to this group? And.....just wait another 2-3 years and see the lackluster involvement.
Why didn't these folks just hook up with CFF in Ohio.....rather than start their own gig? Well, for one thing......egos reign supreme! For them to join up with those in CFF would have been a subtle admission of not being "woke" like CFF was in 1995 (when Shroyer and others exited twi). And, as they say......"If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes." Ex-corps coordinators and region guys like to stand at the microphone.......it strokes their ego and narcissism.
And......coming full circle.......all of this probably connects the circle of understanding into why wierwille, when he sat thru B.G. Leonard's class in Calgary, Alberta in 1953, rushed home and started signing up friends and family for "his" (cough, cough) October 1953 class. The ego and greed of man.
I find better teachings/blogs from Frank Viola, Jon Zens, Milt Rodrieguez, and Keith Giles than I can find from CFF, STF, and R&R. Viola takes the same concept from Colossians about The Mystery and does a hell better teaching than VPW ever could. He has written a new book called The Gospel of the Kingdom/Insurgency and does a podcast with 2 or 3 others every week.
Now that you guys are no longer with twi........are you, as described by wierwille, "cop-outs?"
Do you think that you are possessed with *deceiving spirits* because you are not meek to twi's board of directors?
If you are characteristically mislabeled (misjudged) and slandered......what about all other corps/clergy before you?
Was wierwille using bully-tactics against others who "abandoned" his authoritarian rule?
Since you've walked away from those who "taught you the Word"......have you lost all those rewards at the bema?
Now that you are labeled "mark and avoid"......has your understanding of that term changed?
Wierwille died of cancer.......do you still teach, as wierwille did, that cancer is a devil spirit?
What about the "law of believing".......wasn't it misconstrued by cherry-picking scriptures?
Let's address plagiarism. Wierwille stole B.G. Leonard's class and taught it as his own, didn't he?
Books, articles, and sermons were "lifted" along the way....with hardly a mention to Stiles, Bullinger, or others?
And, the "Red Thread" teaching was Rev. Oral Roberts "The Fourth Man" teaching......wierwille simply tweaked it, right?
How about we talk about the *holy spirit field*..........if this was such a cornerstone of wierwille's ministry (cough, cough) why has it been neglected for the past 30 years? Who ever notes, in present-day reality......the demonstration of the spirit of word of knowledge, word of wisdom or discerning of spirits? Heck, I sat in the BRC in 1981 when Dr. Wierwille vehemently stated that an 8th corps guy had a daimon spirit......and after stern confrontation and fuming, wierwille walked away from this guy. No spirit was cast out and the corps guy went back to his unit, graduated, and went on LEAD staff. Huh?
What are you guys doing to correct the DOCTRINAL errors that wierwille taught?
What are you guys doing to "heal the bruised and broken-hearted" of those who wierwille and martindale sexually abused?
Why are all of you guys "teachers?"...... Doesn't anyone have the gift of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist or a Pastor?
Sheesh.....it reminds me of the saying, "Those that can't do....teach."
I've got lots more questions..............but this is a good start.
And, another thing........you guys REALLY need to pull your head out of this echo chamber of self-congratulations and cognitive dissonance. Go to church for a couple of months and learn from them. You guys sound boring as hell.
And, another thing........you guys REALLY need to pull your head out of this echo chamber of self-congratulations and cognitive dissonance. Go to church for a couple of months and learn from them. You guys sound boring as hell.
Evidence..........that wierwille's corps leaders were bailing in 1976, 1977, 1978, etc.....
All those wierwille-apologists who attend splinter groups OR plaster things on Facebook are cult-sycophants. Wierwille's letters, over and over, were lamenting the reality THAT CORPS LEADERS WERE LEAVING TWI.......year after year. The only reason that this is NOT wide-spread news is wierwille instigated a cover-up......trying to put it in "lockbox territory." How damn convenient!!
When wierwille could NO longer contain the hemorrhaging, he resorted to his "corps letters."
The last card in his hand was........"woe is me, that my corps leaders are deserting me".........ugh.
A con-artist to the end.
***********
On 10/6/2017 at 4:24 PM, skyrider said:
December 28, 1981............[You do not have permission to add comments]
BUT......here at GreaseSpot Café, I do.........................................
"Dear Way Corps: (I have difficulty knowing to whom to send and address this letter. Read it and see if you are the one.)
Perhaps other people feel the same way I do but there are sure times when I ask myself the question WHY? Why do people whom you love and whom you want to help so much, and have helped so much in the past, continue to hurt you unknowingly or even unwillingly? You wonder why you continue to bleed your heart out for them. You wonder why one continues after over 40 years, to get up in the morning at 4 or 5 o'clock and go to work just to bless people. Yes, one just wonders "why?" But, then somehow or other I think of my life and what God has wrought for me personally and in me, and I just keep going on and on."
How about looking at it this way............
Mr. Wierwille: (I have no difficulty knowing why I left your cult and sounding the alarm with others here at GSC.)
Perhaps other people don't feel the same way I do, but now after more fully discovering your depravity of sin, lusts and sexual predation on so many innocent young corps girls, I find myself shaking my head and saying, "How sick and perverted was he?" Why does an ordained man ravage the flock of which he, hypocritically, deems to protect? Why does he plagiarize and steal from sources constantly rather than turn to God and His divine love, mercy and inspiration? And, I wonder why did all of his enablers.....Howard Allen, Don Wierwille, Chris Geer, Craig Martindale, Johnnie Townsend (and lots of others) and seductress women in his stable..... continued to succumb to this demented and destructive circle of evil. Yet, here at GSC.......we've connected the dots these past 17 years and continue to sound the alarm for others. And, even to this day.....the lies and plagiarist doctrine in twi and its splinter groups needs a counterpoint. So, it encourages many of us to keep going on and on."
**********
On 10/6/2017 at 6:05 PM, skyrider said:
5 days later.......wierwille sends ANOTHER corps letter.........January 2, 1982
"My Dear Way Corps: .......<snip>......[2nd paragraph]......"It always hurts when any believer "leaves" the household, YET the Word still says, 'Therefore seeing we have this ministry [we've got it!] , as we have received mercy [God's withholding merited judgment], we faint not.' ' It is ours. We do not deserve it, but we've got it. God committed it to us, so we are responsible to God; therefore, we are obligated to commit ourselves to it. There is a great and final day of reward throughout all eternity on the threshold. When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship. Speaking in tongues is a constant reminder of eternal rewards."
ANOTHER corps letter about people leaving twi..........
And.....this little doozie, "When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship."
Yeah, wierhole........like YOU were (cough, cough) IN FELLOWSHIP amassing all those eternal rewards.
Don't you have the heart of a doulos.......like twi's board of directors?
On 10/7/2017 at 5:14 PM, skyrider said:
Wierwille's last corps letter in this collection..................Spring 1982
Embedded in the middle is this........
"The 'programming' of the minds of the world has been materialistic idolatry. The world will always make you feel like you have less than you need with the many 'gods' it offers. As the minds of the leadership go, so will go the minds of the people. The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style."
"What are you claiming and evidencing in your life? Having food and raiment let us be therewith content; and unalterable commitment to move the Word over the world; a need to lead; a yearning for more laborers for the harvest; the heart of the doulos, Jesus Christ."
Well, the reason some of us felt like we had less than we needed.....is because we HAD LESS than we needed. We had no health insurance, no equity, no savings, no IRA-retirement accruement, jumped from menial job in one state to another menial job in another state......we were driving broken-down cars, our marriages were being strained, our kids needed attending, and we didn't know that the next leader's confrontation might just nix 15-20 years of twi-involvement.
Another rambling letter dripping with a sanctimonious lecture on "one's commitment to hock his classes." And, "as the minds of the leadership go"........and......"The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style".................MEANING, many of his lieutenants / corps leaders were ABANDONING WIERWILLE AND HIS CULT LIFESTYLE and getting a real job.
Gawd........it all seems so surreal, knowing that wierwille had the soft, comfortable chair throughout life and stayed on Van Wert church payroll all during his 6-month India itinerary and until August 1957. And, if he wanted to claim martyrdom of his eye......well, that was his own damn fault. He plowed ahead with intense lighting and refused technical advise.
IN MY OPINION.........This thread is in the top 5 of exposing wierwille and his cult tactics. These letters show wierwille's deceptive tactics and shenanigans to keep lock-box secrets in place as his "ministry" was crumbling around him 1976-1982. He uses manipulation to try and get corps to feel guilty that "they are abandoning him and not keeping their vow".......letter after letter, one can see how he uses corps, against their better judgment, to sell his soap. This thread should be pinned.
Were you CALLED to be corps......as wierwille stated time and time again?
On 10/8/2017 at 9:35 AM, skyrider said:
Another reference to doulos............... February 1982
"Some Corps have said to me that they never really were called to be Corps. I don't believe that. You never would have been in the Corps in the first place had not God had His hand on you. Man, you're Corps! I haven't the time to figure it all out, but I'll let God be the judge at the bema. All I know is what God has called The Way Corps to do, and what our sold-out, committed response must be."
"The Way Corps is a lot bigger than just you or me. It's the accuracy and integrity of God's Word that is at stake. When any Corps start turning away from the Corps, they are turning away from the Word, the great Mystery. We are to diligently keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. Your loving response to the ministry that has given you the privilege of being Corps for four years of teaching is your total commitment and service to the Word as a bond slave (doulos)."
With each letter, the incessant focus on "you're corps, called to be Corps, privilege of being corps" was to ratchet pressure against those who knew it was time to get off this moving train. When one reads thru this whole letter......it's obvious that lots of people were dropping their nametags and moving on in life.
How about a timeline of some facts?
5th Corps [75+] graduate in July 1977
6th Corps [320+] graduate in July 1978
1977 ROA in Sidney, OH......utilizing buildings and areas on the fair grounds
1978 ROA was moved to hq-grounds and needed lots of labor to set up tents, food pavilions
Corps Week added prior to roa. Now, corps traveling long distance needed 16-18 days of "vacation time" from employer each year
Add, Anniversary Weekends, WIB, Weekends in the Word......the corps were scrambling to meetings and scrambling to pay bills
By 1980, 81.........corps marriages resulted in babies, babies and more babies
Wierwille could have written a corps letter per month......it wouldn't have mattered. Reality of life was settling in.......with marriages and babies came MORE bills, MORE financial burdens in the short AND long term. Working menial jobs wasn't paying the bills........especially with a growing family. Since wierwille demanded corps attend corps week and roa each year.......a large portion of corps were self-employed; [painters, landscapers, window cleaners, salespersons, etc.] With each passing year, the exponential burden of family/ child-rearing was inescapable reality !!
Read thru the corps letters.......and what you DON'T see? Emphasis on education, family, children, school, careers, building a family unit thru generations.....
Read thru the corps letters.......and what you DO see? A driving emphasis to jump thru hoops of fire and don't complain if you got burnt, dammit.
"What would make any Corps person think that now they are going to go out and supposedly make 'a million' for the ministry? God never called the Corps, the leadership of our ministry, for that purpose?"
Well, for one thing.......you, mr. wierwille, stated publically in 1979 that you WERE WAITING for the day when someone in the ministry would donate one million dollars to the ministry. There were no qualifiers with that public statement: why wouldn't a corps person, "trained in believing," be able to step up to the plate and do it?
See......that's the dirty little secret, what you really wanted was to pigeon-hole groups of people for the cult's purposes....
............Only corps can be the leaders, parrot the mandates, oversee the followers, and help crack the whip to run those classes.
............Only college division alumni are to be the 'business and professionals' of the cult.....
............The staff are to be in the inner sanctum, the holy and spiritual elites near the mog.
These corps letters were NEVER MEANT to reach the general masses.......it exposes the ruse.
These corps letters give insight into the unfiltered, pathological mindset of wierwille.........
May 24, 1979........... "An idea has been working in my heart that I would like to get started among our Corps. I want a sharing by you---an honest and truthful account of your life. It should be systematically laid out, from your birth to the time you entered The Way Corps training. Entitle your sharing 'The Way For Me: From Birth to the Corps.' I want the where, what, who, when, why and how regarding every major decision point in your life from birth that brought you to the point of entering The Way Corps. For example: I got into sex in the sixth grade; I started drugs when I was 12; I robbed the local liquor store; I was in the Baptist Church; my basketball coach taught me something that changed my life. Paint the picture of what you were in, and vividly relate how you were delivered."
Why did wierwille jump to SEX as his first example? Why were the first three examples.......sex, drugs, and robbery?
Is there a connection, a pattern as to WHY NOW THESE PERSONAL ACCOUNTINGS?........when, a month before [April 25, 1979], wierwille assures everyone that the "lock box" of his mind is sealed and then, acknowledges that people are leaving the "corps household." Why are people leaving? Are these women who've been sexually assaulted on the motor coach? Are these two corps letters.......April, then May's corps letter......tandem inner-workings of a sexual predator?
And, as has been clarified here at GSC.........how many women did wierwille EXPLOIT because of this "idea to write these papers?"
Gee........WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE, TO THIS DAY, STILL BELIEVE THAT MARTINDALE WAS THE ONE WHO SCREWED TWI?
Then.......when MANY, MANY corps do not send in these papers, wierwille sends a manipulating letter [November 6, 1979] and even takes a swipe at those who DID send in their life's account of "Birth to the Corps." Anyhoo, it just shows how vpw took swipes at ALL the corps no matter the issue. Always, wierwille gauged their "commitment" as a group.... never on an individual basis. The underpinnings of a cult..........group-identity and group-confrontation !!
Wierwille was manipulating us .......strategically and deceptively.
On 10/10/2017 at 3:48 PM, skyrider said:
.........
These corps letters are of interest to me.......because they give insight into wierwille's mindset, without being edited to death. It seems to me, wierwille's unfiltered ramblings were left, basically, intact by his secretaries [who didn't want any confrontation by correcting/editing his ramblings].
Also........these letters document, time and time again, that CORPS WERE LEAVING......and wierwille's only response was to play the "woe is me, I'm doing my best to love them" card.......ALL THE WHILE he is still sexually preying on corps women. He continued to BLATANTLY LIE thru his teeth. Here at GSC, we've got the documentation and first-hand accounts of sexual predation!
Those who defend wierwille TO THIS DAY.........are sycophants and opportunists.
And, what about those in R&R Group? Are they, too, going to simply take their fight against Rivenbark......and give wierwille a pass? Another wave of wierwille-apologists splintering from the mother-ship......BUT heralding the praises of wierwille? Probably so. Another wave of splinter sycophants.
.....the demonstration of the spirit of word of knowledge, word of wisdom or discerning of spirits? Heck, I sat in the BRC in 1981 when Dr. Wierwille vehemently stated that an 8th corps guy had a daimon spirit......and after stern confrontation and fuming, wierwille walked away from this guy. No spirit was cast out and the corps guy went back to his unit, graduated, and went on LEAD staff. Huh?
A family member recently told me about an attempted "casting out" incident that she witnessed in the BRC sometime between 1971-1973. She was only about 8-10 years old at the time and most of the details have been forgotten. Apparently there was a guy who tried to cast a "devil spirit" out of another man but the the guy attempting the casting out landed flat on his back. Anybody remember this?
A family member recently told me about an attempted "casting out" incident that she witnessed in the BRC sometime between 1971-1973. She was only about 8-10 years old at the time and most of the details have been forgotten. Apparently there was a guy who tried to cast a "devil spirit" out of another man but the the guy attempting the casting out landed flat on his back. Anybody remember this?
I think it was in the Advanced Class that VPW claimed some guy tried to cast out a spirit without having been given revelation to do so. The spirit supposedly smacked the guy silly and laid him out on the floor.The lesson we were supposed to get from this was that you are not supposed to act without guidance to do so.But, of course, you still have the whole deal with VP dying from cancer. You probably recall that he also taught in the Advanced Class that cancer is a devil spirit. So, the guy who we followed because we thought he was the spiritual guru of the entire world was either possessed or (more likely) full of beans on this whole subject of devil spirits and a whole lot of other stuff. And, now we have people like this R&R group who want us to believe them when they perpetuate this regurgitated sort of rubbish.
On April 18th........Revival and Restoration posted a 5-part series of teachings that were recorded in Stateline, Nevada on October 6 & 7, 2018.
Do these guys still pay homage to twi's Anniversary Weekend that is held the first Sunday of October each year?
Podium..........check
Teachings......check
Students at tables.....check
Bland repetition.........check
The marketing of this event was entitled The Mystery Living and Real........see, just this subtle hat tip to how wierwille launched his exclusivity from other Christians. On twi's anniversary weekend no less........of all the weekends in a calendar year they picked this one!?! LOL. So, how do they gear up this "revival?" They've got to separate themselves from the pack (other splinters and churches)......else, why would "students" bother to attend their freelancing conferences and give money/support?
Michael Fort is the first teacher in this series on the Book of Colossians. In his teaching at the 30:40 mark, he teaches on "Coconut Monkey Trap." He has a handout depicting this trap and has it passed out to the students......(because it's worthy of a handout in the context of "The Mystery"......???)......oh, the irony.
In my opinion, these R&R corps leaders are STILL caught in wierwille's monkey trap. They put their hand into the coconut to grasp what was inside.......and STILL haven't let go. They refuse to let go and cannot get away.......even though the coconut is tied with a steel cable to twi. The monkey cannot acknowledge why he is trapped in this device.
Same anniversary weekend
Same podium-style teachings
Same authoritarian corps leaders in charge
Any acknowledgement of wierwille's plagiarism or predation?
Any admitting to complicity to wierwille's wrongdoings?
Any repentance to the Lord Jesus Christ and Body of followers?
Any open discussions to correct all wrong doctrines/practices?
How about dismantling the delusional MOG-doctrine?
I think it was in the Advanced Class that VPW claimed some guy tried to cast out a spirit without having been given revelation to do so. The spirit supposedly smacked the guy silly and laid him out on the floor.The lesson we were supposed to get from this was that you are not supposed to act without guidance to do so.But, of course, you still have the whole deal with VP dying from cancer. You probably recall that he also taught in the Advanced Class that cancer is a devil spirit. So, the guy who we followed because we thought he was the spiritual guru of the entire world was either possessed or (more likely) full of beans on this whole subject of devil spirits and a whole lot of other stuff. And, now we have people like this R&R group who want us to believe them when they perpetuate this regurgitated sort of rubbish.
I meant to add that I first heard this story in 1972 from an Advanced Class grad.. It was told as if it had happened several years prior to the telling, in some non-TWI group. Then, I heard it again, being taught in the Advanced Class, by VPW, in 1973.
I guess VP was concerned someone may have suddenly 'laid hands' on him !!
That's probably why he enlisted the aid of armed bodyguards or why, on at least one documented occasion, a loaded gun was kept under the podium in the BRC..
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
They can't go beyond their teaching, regurgitating what they first heard nearly 50 years ago, in other words, they are stuck and can't think for themselves, exploring other avenues of life.
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Rocky
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Rocky
Bless their pea-pickin' little ol' hearts.
What they need, in under three minutes...
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Rocky
Or, if you respond better to a young pretty female voice (and face), try this one.
She's got some good points. But note to the R&R crowd, there are three things she suggests doing BEFORE reconnecting with your purpose in life.
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skyrider
So......THIS is what they've got after TWO YEARS of exiting twi?
What do I see?
When dozens of corps signed that March 2017 letter to twi's board of directors........how many of them are ALREADY gone from this R&R group? I would wager a guess of 60%. Oh sure, they might show up for a teaching or two in their local area........but who wants to fly into Nevada for a bloviating yawnfest? Who is going to head out the door for some witnessing to bring others to this group? And.....just wait another 2-3 years and see the lackluster involvement.
Why didn't these folks just hook up with CFF in Ohio.....rather than start their own gig? Well, for one thing......egos reign supreme! For them to join up with those in CFF would have been a subtle admission of not being "woke" like CFF was in 1995 (when Shroyer and others exited twi). And, as they say......"If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes." Ex-corps coordinators and region guys like to stand at the microphone.......it strokes their ego and narcissism.
And......coming full circle.......all of this probably connects the circle of understanding into why wierwille, when he sat thru B.G. Leonard's class in Calgary, Alberta in 1953, rushed home and started signing up friends and family for "his" (cough, cough) October 1953 class. The ego and greed of man.
There is nothing new under the sun.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I find better teachings/blogs from Frank Viola, Jon Zens, Milt Rodrieguez, and Keith Giles than I can find from CFF, STF, and R&R. Viola takes the same concept from Colossians about The Mystery and does a hell better teaching than VPW ever could. He has written a new book called The Gospel of the Kingdom/Insurgency and does a podcast with 2 or 3 others every week.
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waysider
All these spin-off groups kinda remind me of those radio stations that still play Freebird 10 times a day.
edit: I'm not talking about one of those oldies stations. I'm talking about the ones who have been playing it for the last 40+ years.
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skyrider
Questions That Should Be Answered By R&R Leaders:
I've got lots more questions..............but this is a good start.
And, another thing........you guys REALLY need to pull your head out of this echo chamber of self-congratulations and cognitive dissonance. Go to church for a couple of months and learn from them. You guys sound boring as hell.
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Rocky
Amen!
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DontWorryBeHappy
Great post, Sky! Thanks brother!!
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skyrider
Appreciate it, DWBH. Love you brother. Keep standing tall.
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skyrider
Moynihans, Forts, and Horneys...........you guys should NOW re-read wierwille's *corps letters* from your "left the ministry" vantage point.
Letters vpw wrote to the way corps
***********
**********
More to follow............
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skyrider
How about this letter? What say you R&R leaders?
Don't you have the heart of a doulos.......like twi's board of directors?
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skyrider
Now what? Are you CORPS......or aren't you?
Were you CALLED to be corps......as wierwille stated time and time again?
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skyrider
And this letter............February 1982
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skyrider
Letter after letter...........
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skyrider
And, so it goes.............corps and clergy had been leaving wierwille since 1975 and wierwille takes to writing these corps letters.
These corps letters were preemptive strikes..............attempting to keep the corps from exiting en masse.
Just like preemptive strikes in pfal.............The six stages of wierwille's climb to power
Wierwille was manipulating us .......strategically and deceptively.
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Infoabsorption
A family member recently told me about an attempted "casting out" incident that she witnessed in the BRC sometime between 1971-1973. She was only about 8-10 years old at the time and most of the details have been forgotten. Apparently there was a guy who tried to cast a "devil spirit" out of another man but the the guy attempting the casting out landed flat on his back. Anybody remember this?
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waysider
I think it was in the Advanced Class that VPW claimed some guy tried to cast out a spirit without having been given revelation to do so. The spirit supposedly smacked the guy silly and laid him out on the floor.The lesson we were supposed to get from this was that you are not supposed to act without guidance to do so.But, of course, you still have the whole deal with VP dying from cancer. You probably recall that he also taught in the Advanced Class that cancer is a devil spirit. So, the guy who we followed because we thought he was the spiritual guru of the entire world was either possessed or (more likely) full of beans on this whole subject of devil spirits and a whole lot of other stuff. And, now we have people like this R&R group who want us to believe them when they perpetuate this regurgitated sort of rubbish.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, same Bullsheet, different day.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, excellent!!
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waysider
I meant to add that I first heard this story in 1972 from an Advanced Class grad.. It was told as if it had happened several years prior to the telling, in some non-TWI group. Then, I heard it again, being taught in the Advanced Class, by VPW, in 1973.
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Allan
I guess VP was concerned someone may have suddenly 'laid hands' on him !!
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waysider
That's probably why he enlisted the aid of armed bodyguards or why, on at least one documented occasion, a loaded gun was kept under the podium in the BRC..
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