There is a thread somewhere here, in which I document the events leading up to my being thrown off dictor paul’s motor coach on I-35, at a rest stop on the way to WIBAP 1982 in Kansas City. He demanded that I take the lead on “fighting those .... Jews in KC who are gonna picket me at WIBAP!”. When I responded, “Dr. (sic!), what does that have to do with moving the word over the world”? That’s when the purple-faced, neck-vein-popping order was barked out to Kramden Geer, the bus driver, to “pull over and get rid of this sonofabitch!”. Thankfully, by serendipity, we were within 2 miles of a rest stop, from which I called Emporia and begged a ride from another wayfer heading toward WIBAP. What a dangshow!
DWNH, unbelievable that VPW would do that to anyone! What a jerk!!
I was only involved in TWI from 2009-2017 and have heard vague rumors that VPW did not believe the Holocaust happened. Does anyone know if that is true? Was he also anti-Semitic? I was Jewish before believing in Jesus so I find it very offensive and if it’s true and I had known, I never would have gotten involved with TWI in the first place and could have avoided all the grief from them from those 8 years of my life.
Life, I was involved in TWI from 1978-1988; if I had known 40 years ago what I now know about TWI, I would never have gotten involved.
Yes I have a Jewish background and I asked my fellowship leader if he thought the Holocaust was a hoax. He said that it happened, but the numbers were not as high as they say. I guess that's the next step they take when they can't get away with fully denying it.
Good bye. It's always interesting to hear from another Jew who was in the Way.
From what we've seen, vpw never actually DENIED the Holocaust. Behind closed doors, he said Hitler had the right idea and that the US fought on the wrong side in WW2. He recommended books, and echoed books- that said the modern Jews were not the historical Jews (proven wrong since then), and that the numbers of deaths in the Holocaust were greatly exaggerated (if anything, they were UNDERstated.)
I don't know if actually DENYING the Holocaust would be worse than all that, but I've never heard of him actually deny the Holocaust.
Maybe a little worse. I just think he would deny it if he could, but that would be harder to get people to believe. Blabbering made up words and claiming they are from God is one thing, but thank God we have some video footage of the event. We know he hated the Jews even more than most people do or did in 1942 or whatever. He also hated pretty much everyone else too, but that's another story.
I just feel that if you say anything to make the Holocaust seem any worse and horrific than it was you are denying it. That's like saying 911 did happen, but the number of people killed were greatly exaggerated, and it was actually closer to 300 deaths than 3000. Well that's not really 911- "just some people did something".
What a fascinating topic! For those who may be interested I recently attended a talk with a Nuremberg prison guard. He was right there. (He's now 92 years old.) This video is about 30 minutes long.
What a fascinating topic! For those who may be interested I recently attended a talk with a Nuremberg prison guard. He was right there. (He's now 92 years old.) This video is about 30 minutes long.
That is really interesting. He was definitely a sharp guy, and it's great he did this to get it on record. Thanks for posting this, I read up a bit on him couple other places where I found references.
Psalms says "precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints".....Jesus said "the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy"......and "fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell".....
Clearly, in the grave there's no living glory to God, yet throughout history the deaths of those who have stood against evil and died doing it speaks forever. One, 10, a 1,000, 10 million. Every life counts.
VPW's views on Jews and WW2 were odd to say the least. He didn't "deny" that a holocaust occurred, that I ever heard through '69 - '85. He seemed more intent on the idea that the numbers were exaggerated in order for Jews to get leverage and advantage. But it sounded like reporting a flood and that "only 50 died, not the 200 reported".....as if to say that those 50 people were milking their tragedy to want help and for others to learn from what happened to them....
The Nazi's found that mass shootings took a mental toll on their soldiers. Can't have good people going crazy. So they started the concentration camps where steps in the killing process could be broken down and made less personal.
Himmler himself would carry a little book with him to remind him of their ultimate goal, when all this killing turned his stomach. It doesn't feel right, but it is right, he needed to remind himself.
Anyway, this is where VPW got the idea for Retemories.
Well, I don't know where he got the idea for retemories. (I always thought that was Walter C's doing.) But I know it reminds me of a time in FellowLaborers that I looked in the mirror and suddenly wondered how I had changed into a seeming other person in such a short stretch of time. I had to convince myself it was in my best interest. It was a very surreal experience.
VPW did not care what he taught, he only used "new" or out-of-the-mainstream claims to to "prove" that he alone taught truth instead of tradition, seem distinct and gain a following. Michael Rood and other Prophecy club speakers and cult leaders do the same thing today. Rood has a new "amazing discovery" every year, like clockwork. Over-the-top and "unique" claims are the way to get attention and money. VP promoted odd ideas like 4 crucified, law of believing, etc, not because they were true, but because they gained a following and served his megalomania. "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine... they have itching ears... they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables" (2 Timothy 4:3). Sadly, many well-meaning people were deceived.
On top of that, he presented himself as anti-establishment, as "against The Man" to the hippies, which was an interesting marketing tool that worked in this instance.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWNH, unbelievable that VPW would do that to anyone! What a jerk!!
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Longhunter
I grew up at HQ and our 8th grade Washington DC trip was not allowed to visit the Holocaust Museum per Way instructions, that was 1998.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Life, I was involved in TWI from 1978-1988; if I had known 40 years ago what I now know about TWI, I would never have gotten involved.
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No names left
Yes I have a Jewish background and I asked my fellowship leader if he thought the Holocaust was a hoax. He said that it happened, but the numbers were not as high as they say. I guess that's the next step they take when they can't get away with fully denying it.
Good bye. It's always interesting to hear from another Jew who was in the Way.
Edited by No names leftJust a change
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WordWolf
From what we've seen, vpw never actually DENIED the Holocaust. Behind closed doors, he said Hitler had the right idea and that the US fought on the wrong side in WW2. He recommended books, and echoed books- that said the modern Jews were not the historical Jews (proven wrong since then), and that the numbers of deaths in the Holocaust were greatly exaggerated (if anything, they were UNDERstated.)
I don't know if actually DENYING the Holocaust would be worse than all that, but I've never heard of him actually deny the Holocaust.
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No names left
Maybe a little worse. I just think he would deny it if he could, but that would be harder to get people to believe. Blabbering made up words and claiming they are from God is one thing, but thank God we have some video footage of the event. We know he hated the Jews even more than most people do or did in 1942 or whatever. He also hated pretty much everyone else too, but that's another story.
I just feel that if you say anything to make the Holocaust seem any worse and horrific than it was you are denying it. That's like saying 911 did happen, but the number of people killed were greatly exaggerated, and it was actually closer to 300 deaths than 3000. Well that's not really 911- "just some people did something".
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oldiesman
What a fascinating topic! For those who may be interested I recently attended a talk with a Nuremberg prison guard. He was right there. (He's now 92 years old.) This video is about 30 minutes long.
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socks
That is really interesting. He was definitely a sharp guy, and it's great he did this to get it on record. Thanks for posting this, I read up a bit on him couple other places where I found references.
Psalms says "precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints".....Jesus said "the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy"......and "fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell".....
Clearly, in the grave there's no living glory to God, yet throughout history the deaths of those who have stood against evil and died doing it speaks forever. One, 10, a 1,000, 10 million. Every life counts.
VPW's views on Jews and WW2 were odd to say the least. He didn't "deny" that a holocaust occurred, that I ever heard through '69 - '85. He seemed more intent on the idea that the numbers were exaggerated in order for Jews to get leverage and advantage. But it sounded like reporting a flood and that "only 50 died, not the 200 reported".....as if to say that those 50 people were milking their tragedy to want help and for others to learn from what happened to them....
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Bolshevik
The Nazi's found that mass shootings took a mental toll on their soldiers. Can't have good people going crazy. So they started the concentration camps where steps in the killing process could be broken down and made less personal.
Himmler himself would carry a little book with him to remind him of their ultimate goal, when all this killing turned his stomach. It doesn't feel right, but it is right, he needed to remind himself.
Anyway, this is where VPW got the idea for Retemories.
(you read this on the internet, it must be true)
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waysider
Well, I don't know where he got the idea for retemories. (I always thought that was Walter C's doing.) But I know it reminds me of a time in FellowLaborers that I looked in the mirror and suddenly wondered how I had changed into a seeming other person in such a short stretch of time. I had to convince myself it was in my best interest. It was a very surreal experience.
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johnj
VPW did not care what he taught, he only used "new" or out-of-the-mainstream claims to to "prove" that he alone taught truth instead of tradition, seem distinct and gain a following. Michael Rood and other Prophecy club speakers and cult leaders do the same thing today. Rood has a new "amazing discovery" every year, like clockwork. Over-the-top and "unique" claims are the way to get attention and money. VP promoted odd ideas like 4 crucified, law of believing, etc, not because they were true, but because they gained a following and served his megalomania. "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine... they have itching ears... they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables" (2 Timothy 4:3). Sadly, many well-meaning people were deceived.
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WordWolf
On top of that, he presented himself as anti-establishment, as "against The Man" to the hippies, which was an interesting marketing tool that worked in this instance.
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