Excellent and insightful post, Sky! I love you man!!!
Thanks DWBH.......appreciate it.
This cult-splinter insanity strikes me again and again........when corps exit the twi-cult and start their own splinter groups. They desire to have the SAME RESULTS as the cult they left behind (cough, cough).......perks, privileges, adulation, no accountability, meals and travel reimbursed, leisure and flexibility, and control over others!
Gawd........it is so damn obvious, NOW.
With swelling words of vanity, they make merchandise of others. False teachers hiding their seductive ways (II Peter 2).
Always a "teaching" ministry........ever-teaching and never coming to a knowledge of the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ.
Some of this is eventually self-correcting. With the numbers of new people affected by twi dwindling, this problem afflicts fewer people because twi trains fewer people in its dysfunctional methods. So, over the decades, the puffed-up leaders get old and die of old age if nothing else.
Most people who leave twi, after a few years, discover their splinters (if they jump to one) aren't helping them, and they get on with their lives without splinters. Those ex-twi who don't, generally end up in groups with no authority figure at all, and end up just doing house-church. Those can actually work and help people, depending on who's teaching and what they're teaching. Since that's a system that selects AGAINST authority figures, it selects for the more "Christian" types who actually wanted to help people and do the right thing from Day One. (I don't think there's sizeable numbers of those, but I know they exist.)
Insanity is often quoted as......"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
..........but with cult-splinter insanity, I find myself wondering if they are doing the same thing over and over again desiring the SAME results. With nearly 20 years of internet exposure..... Waydale and Greasespot Café.......surely IF these corps leaders had an ounce of integrity and empathy for others, they'd see the errors of their ways, no?
What do ALL of the cult offshoots have in common?
A self-appointed leader claims to have "the Word" and teach "it" to others.
He offers up dissention and disagreements with martindale or rivenbark........and gives wierwille adulation.
Without objective reflection and further seminary training or study, he tweaks the wierwille-teachings only slightly.
Same pyramid structure is implemented..........same centralization, same lording over others, same rules on giving money.
Now that you've met the *new boss, same as the old boss*..........how can you possibly expect DIFFERENT RESULTS?
After exiting The Way International Cult.........how many got entrapped into another splinter group for another decade or more? Insanity right? And, within these various splinters......how many more twisted perversions were promoted and propagated by the spiritual elite (cough, cough) among us? The Geer group plunged into the posthumous indoctrinations of geer's idol, wierwille. CES/STFI grafted in new age, self-help quackery like Momentus and personal prophesies and nose spiders. Egads! And, CFF took you back to the nostalgia "good old days of twi" when that young blood was coursing thru your veins. Oh, the memories.......
Here a splinter, there a splinter.............everywhere there is ANOTHER splinter.
Whether the R&R group will get rooted is still questionable.......but Rico's upstart - Oikeos is another baby cult that is flailing its arms and legs. Nourished on the milk of "Wierwille's Word" this infant will grow up in the image of wierwille...........same result, same outcome as its mother-cult.
IMO.........these splinters have NOTHING to do with serving and ministering to others, but rather are SELF-SERVING OVERLORDS. These corps cleave to the cult model, because they have no real-life job experience in the real world. At best, they would be hard to find middle management jobs, sales jobs or seek self-employment. There are near-zero employers out there who are willing to hire a 56-66 year old man who has been fossilized into an obscure "Christian" group for 35 or 40 years.
Two years ago, I documented a timeline of my experiences during the Martindale Era.....Insanity on Steroids.......and it was crazy then.
But now, seeing these corps who stayed ANOTHER 17 YEARS of Rivenbark's Reign of Error.........and now, wanting to claim the mantle of *Leadership* is laugh-out-loud appalling. What a bunch of weasels. Until they clean and sanctify themselves from all of wierwille cult, top to bottom, thoroughly and throughly............they are a blight on the body of Christ. They disappoint and diminish and destroy by seeking opportunities for filthy lucre's sake. Beware of their pernicious ways as they twist and pervert words to indulge and profit in this seduction. They seek those who've had their minds grooved with cult indoctrination and servitude, rather than do the hard work of reaching others.
Beware of cults. Beware of groupthink.
"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. " Friedrich Nietzsche
Sky, I remember when you documented your experiences with TWI. It was fascinating to read, and study. I was so upset with the way, you and your family were treated, by TWI, I wanted to smack the entire BOD!! You, and your family worked your butts off for years, and then TWI treated you like CACA. It was inhumane, and quite frankly disgusting!! Someday Sky, the people who treated you like S--t, will get what they deserve. I would not treat an animal the way you, and your family were treated.
Some of this is eventually self-correcting. With the numbers of new people affected by twi dwindling, this problem afflicts fewer people because twi trains fewer people in its dysfunctional methods. So, over the decades, the puffed-up leaders get old and die of old age if nothing else.
Most people who leave twi, after a few years, discover their splinters (if they jump to one) aren't helping them, and they get on with their lives without splinters. Those ex-twi who don't, generally end up in groups with no authority figure at all, and end up just doing house-church. Those can actually work and help people, depending on who's teaching and what they're teaching. Since that's a system that selects AGAINST authority figures, it selects for the more "Christian" types who actually wanted to help people and do the right thing from Day One. (I don't think there's sizeable numbers of those, but I know they exist.)
WW, interesting post. I didn't know this; thanks for the information.
WW, interesting post. I didn't know this; thanks for the information.
It's old news that the splinters often act as airlocks. People jump from twi to a splinter, realize there's life outside twi, then realize there's life outside the splinters and that they can do better, so they jump from the splinter to anything else, whether another Christian group or denomination, or another religion, or another philosophy, or supposedly nothing at all, depending on their personal inclinations.
There is going to be an Oikeos Conference --- Our Maturity in Christ Course
Rico Magnelli is going to march into Rosalie's backyard to pluck off more followers.
Another cult teaching on "Our Maturity in Christ" is unsurprisingly surreal.
January meeting in Wichita, KS......February meeting in Sidney, OH.......I see a pattern
What's next? A meeting in New Bremen?
According to Rico's website, it has been over a year since Moynihans, Horneys, or Michael Fort taught at an "oikeos-event" co-joining efforts in a splinter splash.
We will learn a great deal about the direction of R&R if....AGAIN.....they rally together behind Rico (in Sidney, Ohio).
Wouldn't it be a hoot if they rented out the GreatStone Castle for this event?
According to Rico's website, it has been over a year since Moynihans, Horneys, or Michael Fort taught at an "oikeos-event" co-joining efforts in a splinter splash.
We will learn a great deal about the direction of R&R if....AGAIN.....they rally together behind Rico (in Sidney, Ohio).
Wouldn't it be a hoot if they rented out the GreatStone Castle for this event?
Sky, would Rico have enough followers, to rent it out? It seems to me, he is losing people left, and right. I don't keep up with his organization, but how stable is it? I suspect that a year, or two from today, his people will leave, and start their own organization.
This cult-splinter insanity strikes me again and again........when corps exit the twi-cult and start their own splinter groups. They desire to have the SAME RESULTS as the cult they left behind (cough, cough).......perks, privileges, adulation, no accountability, meals and travel reimbursed, leisure and flexibility, and control over others!
Gawd........it is so damn obvious, NOW.
With swelling words of vanity, they make merchandise of others. False teachers hiding their seductive ways (II Peter 2).
Always a "teaching" ministry........ever-teaching and never coming to a knowledge of the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ.
When I think about my time in the Way Corps, I don't think I ever really fully identified with being a minister. I mean I was invested, and spent my early adulthood trying to be one, but I was always suppressing a part of myself to do so. Since I left TWI, I have spent years trying to rediscover who I truly am, and what my own ambitions are. I have observed that a lot of people never find their way back to themselves. They want to recapture that thing they had where they were important, and listened to, and looked up to. They think that's who they are and nothing else feels right. And you can't easily integrate into any other religious setting. So you roll your own.
I feel sympathy for them.
I notice as a cult survivor, I have a certain proneness to cult-like groups of all stripes. Art cults, fitness cults, education cults. I see them everywhere. I'm trying to understand and heal the part of me that needs them.
Not posting as a counter point, just some additional thoughts.
On 2/14/2019 at 11:28 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:
Sky, would Rico have enough followers, to rent it out? It seems to me, he is losing people left, and right. I don't keep up with his organization, but how stable is it? I suspect that a year, or two from today, his people will leave, and start their own organization.
Grace........it appears that Rico's group is on the upswing. He is developing 8-hour weekend courses wherein he, and a couple of others, can fly in and teach their material, collect the "abundant sharing" and coerce more followers to faithfully partner ($$$) with his group.
January -- in Wichita, KS......teach on faithful giving, tithing, partnering
February -- in Sidney, OH......teach on steps to take for "spiritual maturity"
This summer -- in Montana.......an outdoor camp to enjoy God's creation
Courses, classes and camps........sound familiar?
Rico followed Martindale's directives..........until martindale was finally ousted.
Rico followed Rivenbark's micromanagement...........for ANOTHER 16 years.
Like mother-cult before him, Rico is herding a religious seclusion of cult-life followers. Most of them, who are isolated from church, community and neighbors.....are also displaced from their own families, unless the whole dysfunctional family is involved. Cults prey on the weak, vulnerable and grieved. Teachings are subtly designed to keep their minds grooved in guilt, fear and dependency......working toward "stages of spiritual maturity" or goals that cannot be attained.
Grace........it appears that Rico's group is on the upswing. He is developing 8-hour weekend courses wherein he, and a couple of others, can fly in and teach their material, collect the "abundant sharing" and coerce more followers to faithfully partner ($$$) with his group.
January -- in Wichita, KS......teach on faithful giving, tithing, partnering
February -- in Sidney, OH......teach on steps to take for "spiritual maturity"
This summer -- in Montana.......an outdoor camp to enjoy God's creation
Courses, classes and camps........sound familiar?
Rico followed Martindale's directives..........until martindale was finally ousted.
Rico followed Rivenbark's micromanagement...........for ANOTHER 16 years.
Like mother-cult before him, Rico is herding a religious seclusion of cult-life followers. Most of them, who are isolated from church, community and neighbors.....are also displaced from their own families, unless the whole dysfunctional family is involved. Cults prey on the weak, vulnerable and grieved. Teachings are subtly designed to keep their minds grooved in guilt, fear and dependency......working toward "stages of spiritual maturity" or goals that cannot be attained.
.
Sky, I feel for these people. We know what happened to many of the people in TWI; I hope it doesn't happen again. When will people learn that cults are evil, and usually only benefit the few on top?
Sky, I feel for these people. We know what happened to many of the people in TWI; I hope it doesn't happen again. When will people learn that cults are evil, and usually only benefit the few on top?
I'd suggest that it might be more fair to characterize it thus, "cults usually primarily benefit the few on top." If there was no other benefit, there would be no cult(s). Those not at the top generally get a strong sense of belonging.
I'd suggest that it might be more fair to characterize it thus, "cults usually primarily benefit the few on top." If there was no other benefit, there would be no cult(s). Those not at the top generally get a strong sense of belonging.
When that subsides, those people leave.
This goes back to "why do people join cults?" People never join a cult- they start associating with some people, and the associations become inclusive, making them one of US rather than one of THEM, and then the rules slowly move in, and then one day, the person's in a cult. People keep being shocked how much they liked hanging out with people in twi, with no rules chaining them, and then, years later, how the rules slowly creeped in to choke the life out of them.
This goes back to "why do people join cults?" People never join a cult- they start associating with some people, and the associations become inclusive, making them one of US rather than one of THEM, and then the rules slowly move in, and then one day, the person's in a cult. People keep being shocked how much they liked hanging out with people in twi, with no rules chaining them, and then, years later, how the rules slowly creeped in to choke the life out of them.
WW, yes!!! So true!! I know this happened to me. When I first started attending Twig, it was fascinating; very few rules. Years later, it sucked due to all the rules.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Excellent and insightful post, Sky! I love you man!!!
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skyrider
Thanks DWBH.......appreciate it.
This cult-splinter insanity strikes me again and again........when corps exit the twi-cult and start their own splinter groups. They desire to have the SAME RESULTS as the cult they left behind (cough, cough).......perks, privileges, adulation, no accountability, meals and travel reimbursed, leisure and flexibility, and control over others!
Gawd........it is so damn obvious, NOW.
With swelling words of vanity, they make merchandise of others. False teachers hiding their seductive ways (II Peter 2).
Always a "teaching" ministry........ever-teaching and never coming to a knowledge of the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Yup!!
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WordWolf
Some of this is eventually self-correcting. With the numbers of new people affected by twi dwindling, this problem afflicts fewer people because twi trains fewer people in its dysfunctional methods. So, over the decades, the puffed-up leaders get old and die of old age if nothing else.
Most people who leave twi, after a few years, discover their splinters (if they jump to one) aren't helping them, and they get on with their lives without splinters. Those ex-twi who don't, generally end up in groups with no authority figure at all, and end up just doing house-church. Those can actually work and help people, depending on who's teaching and what they're teaching. Since that's a system that selects AGAINST authority figures, it selects for the more "Christian" types who actually wanted to help people and do the right thing from Day One. (I don't think there's sizeable numbers of those, but I know they exist.)
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penworks
Is Rico's group based in Melbourne, Florida?
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skyrider
Hi penworks..........
According to their website.........oikeos.org/contact/giving
Please send checks or money orders (cover letter not required) to the following address:
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penworks
Whoa. In my neighborhood somewhere! I should ask him over for tea.
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skyrider
Attention: Cults Battle for Followers!
February 23 and 24, 2019.........Sidney, Ohio
There is going to be an Oikeos Conference --- Our Maturity in Christ Course
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DontWorryBeHappy
A nest of scorpions devouring each other into the bottomless oblivion they have so richly earned. GOOD RIDDANCE!
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Raf
I really need to sneak into one of these things.
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waysider
They'd smoke you out instantly with their heightened sense of spiritual perception.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I remember when you documented your experiences with TWI. It was fascinating to read, and study. I was so upset with the way, you and your family were treated, by TWI, I wanted to smack the entire BOD!! You, and your family worked your butts off for years, and then TWI treated you like CACA. It was inhumane, and quite frankly disgusting!! Someday Sky, the people who treated you like S--t, will get what they deserve. I would not treat an animal the way you, and your family were treated.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, interesting post. I didn't know this; thanks for the information.
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WordWolf
It's old news that the splinters often act as airlocks. People jump from twi to a splinter, realize there's life outside twi, then realize there's life outside the splinters and that they can do better, so they jump from the splinter to anything else, whether another Christian group or denomination, or another religion, or another philosophy, or supposedly nothing at all, depending on their personal inclinations.
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skyrider
According to Rico's website, it has been over a year since Moynihans, Horneys, or Michael Fort taught at an "oikeos-event" co-joining efforts in a splinter splash.
We will learn a great deal about the direction of R&R if....AGAIN.....they rally together behind Rico (in Sidney, Ohio).
Wouldn't it be a hoot if they rented out the GreatStone Castle for this event?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, would Rico have enough followers, to rent it out? It seems to me, he is losing people left, and right. I don't keep up with his organization, but how stable is it? I suspect that a year, or two from today, his people will leave, and start their own organization.
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waysider
Hey, kids, let's put on a show.
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shortfuse
When I think about my time in the Way Corps, I don't think I ever really fully identified with being a minister. I mean I was invested, and spent my early adulthood trying to be one, but I was always suppressing a part of myself to do so. Since I left TWI, I have spent years trying to rediscover who I truly am, and what my own ambitions are. I have observed that a lot of people never find their way back to themselves. They want to recapture that thing they had where they were important, and listened to, and looked up to. They think that's who they are and nothing else feels right. And you can't easily integrate into any other religious setting. So you roll your own.
I feel sympathy for them.
I notice as a cult survivor, I have a certain proneness to cult-like groups of all stripes. Art cults, fitness cults, education cults. I see them everywhere. I'm trying to understand and heal the part of me that needs them.
Not posting as a counter point, just some additional thoughts.
PEACE.
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skyrider
Grace........it appears that Rico's group is on the upswing. He is developing 8-hour weekend courses wherein he, and a couple of others, can fly in and teach their material, collect the "abundant sharing" and coerce more followers to faithfully partner ($$$) with his group.
Rico followed Martindale's directives..........until martindale was finally ousted.
Rico followed Rivenbark's micromanagement...........for ANOTHER 16 years.
Like mother-cult before him, Rico is herding a religious seclusion of cult-life followers. Most of them, who are isolated from church, community and neighbors.....are also displaced from their own families, unless the whole dysfunctional family is involved. Cults prey on the weak, vulnerable and grieved. Teachings are subtly designed to keep their minds grooved in guilt, fear and dependency......working toward "stages of spiritual maturity" or goals that cannot be attained.
.
Edited by skyridertypo
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DontWorryBeHappy
It would not surprise me to find out that the Montana connection has something to do with Steve Sann. Wanna bet?? LOL!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I feel for these people. We know what happened to many of the people in TWI; I hope it doesn't happen again. When will people learn that cults are evil, and usually only benefit the few on top?
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Rocky
I'd suggest that it might be more fair to characterize it thus, "cults usually primarily benefit the few on top." If there was no other benefit, there would be no cult(s). Those not at the top generally get a strong sense of belonging.
When that subsides, those people leave.
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WordWolf
This goes back to "why do people join cults?" People never join a cult- they start associating with some people, and the associations become inclusive, making them one of US rather than one of THEM, and then the rules slowly move in, and then one day, the person's in a cult. People keep being shocked how much they liked hanging out with people in twi, with no rules chaining them, and then, years later, how the rules slowly creeped in to choke the life out of them.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, yes!!! So true!! I know this happened to me. When I first started attending Twig, it was fascinating; very few rules. Years later, it sucked due to all the rules.
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