When I was in The Way, many years ago, we were taught that it's "off the word" to give personal testimony. While I no longer subscribe to the teachings of The Way, I'm still curious about the reasoning for that. Can you offer any insight?
When I was in The Way, many years ago, we were taught that it's "off the word" to give personal testimony. While I no longer subscribe to the teachings of The Way, I'm still curious about the reasoning for that. Can you offer any insight?
That is a good question. Were you ever in that organization, and, if so, where and when?
For whatever it’s worth, I’m in agreement with DWBH. This topic doesn’t belong in Doctrinal.
If it gets moved from Doctrinal, it will either get sent to Soap Opera (if it descends to drama and name-calling), or be locked and/or deleted as being off-topic even for Doctrinal.
The GSC is for ex-twi, for twi survivors. No belief system is assumed or required. So, generally, discussions of belief go in Doctrinal or its skeptical subforum. There is no subforum for non-skepticism, so it's Doctrinal or post it elsewhere.
yes I was "in " from 1975-1987..ex-wife as well.."wow" twice so I "paid my dues"..testimonials of people being healed were not what we were used to in TWI...as these are from another ministry that specializes in divine healings & raising the dead..not too sure where it belongs... I always held to the idea that testimonials were & are a worthwhile thing, & perhaps would help encourage others to trust in their Lord. Thats a matter of opinion I suppose so I'm saying it is my opinion & am curious if others out there in cyberspace think as I do or contrary....as I respect people being different...it didn't seem to be a bad thing for the children of Israel to pass down from generation to generation.especially if you wanted your children to "follow in your footsteps of believing in God & his power"..so yeh..put it where you want it as I think its a viable discussion item & of course I can always give you the addy of where I'm reading these wonderful testimonies.. Bless ya 'z
waysider asked where & when...WOW in Massachusetts & Pa...lived in Indiana most of those years (l2)..great times & saddened to see how quickly it fell apart in terms of genuine friends that ceased to communicate.."we have no friends when it comes to da word" yeh right..LOL
How about a new Doctrinal sub forum, Raf? Label it “Abject Ex-wayfer Horseshit”. Jack’s posts would comprise most of the forum. As a matter of fact, I suggest you just add them onto Mike’s archived posts and bury them there. Thank you for listening.
waysider asked where & when...WOW in Massachusetts & Pa...lived in Indiana most of those years (l2)..great times & saddened to see how quickly it fell apart in terms of genuine friends that ceased to communicate.."we have no friends when it comes to da word" yeh right..LOL
Well, actually, I didn't ask where and when. I only asked if you had been in The Way. Thank you for the response, though.
Now, back to the question: Why do you think The Way discouraged personal testimonies? It was never adequately explained to me and I remain curious.
If it gets moved from Doctrinal, it will either get sent to Soap Opera (if it descends to drama and name-calling), or be locked and/or deleted as being off-topic even for Doctrinal.
The GSC is for ex-twi, for twi survivors. No belief system is assumed or required. So, generally, discussions of belief go in Doctrinal or its skeptical subforum. There is no subforum for non-skepticism, so it's Doctrinal or post it elsewhere.
You are correct. This is the proper location for the thread.
As always, if a topic loses interest it works its way to the second page and beyond. Meanwhile, comment if it is interesting and ignore if it doesn’t.
How about a new Doctrinal sub forum, Raf? Label it “Abject Ex-wayfer Horseshit”. Jack’s posts would comprise most of the forum. As a matter of fact, I suggest you just add them onto Mike’s archived posts and bury them there. Thank you for listening.
Except if you're me, there's no way to distinguish.
I'll discuss with ModTheOtherGuy and we'll figure it out.
Testimonials are CLAIMS. They are not evidence for those claims.
People need to understand the difference.
If I tell you I stayed home from work today because I was sick, the amount of evidence you need to support that claim is minimal. There's nothing extraordinary about the claim. Therefore, there is nothing extraordinary about the amount of evidence you require to believe it.
If I were to tell you I stayed home from work today because last night I was abducted by space aliens, you would demand proof. And it had better be good. My claim, by itself, would be inadequate (to say the least) as proof.
I had someone look me straight in the eye and tell me she had HIV. Then she looked me straight in the eye a couple of years later and praised God because it was GONE! Hallelujah! I relied on this person to help me understand things that only someone with HIV would know. Made me look like an idiot. After a while it hit me: she never had HIV. Given the set of facts, it was the explanation that is most probable.
Testimonials are not evidence of themselves. By all means, draw inspiration from them if you will. But when you start presenting them as evidence of their own veracity, buckle up. Immabout to get rude.
waysider..I don't believe I'm the one that stated that TWI discouraged testimonies..I believe it was another poster....anyway..in the dozen years of being in the outfit..just very very few ,ever really saw any kinds of miracles..especially in our area, thus we were never "warned" to "keep it to ourselves"..I think that is what is so refreshing about this list of testimonials..just really thankful people who went after getting healed or did the ministering & saw results..really nothing to be ashamed of..as to me its enlightening & inspirational & gets me to think more & more "outside the box" of if/when we limit God & his power...to me it opens up avenues of possibilites & God loves to come thru ALOT of the times..
Also I think this DOES belong in doctrinal because it (deliverance) is based on what doctrine or false doctrine one has bought into, that could interfere with the deliverance happening..thats exactly what I'm learning about.."sacred cows" that we've held in high esteem but can be the very mind sets that can discourage people from seeking God's help first.. destroying such sacred cows..seems to the open up some great deliverances,,which is what this listing indicates.. pretty exciting IMHO
I tend to approach testimonies carefully BECAUSE I know that some people are: A) great big liars or B) not smart and honestly mistaken or unobservant or C) fanatical enough to ignore more mundane possibilities
So, I don't dismiss them categorically. but I do approach them carefully, and I tend not to blow a trumpet on things I've been in on.
However, I'll let you have one for free. It happened back in 1988.
There was this guy coming off the WOW field. He was on a super-tight budget and "camping" in airports because hotel rooms would have been outside his budget. (He said some things happened in the last few days of his tour of wow-ness.) His plan at the end was to wait in a local airport where he was, take a plane to Dayton Airport the day before everybody travels there for the ROA (the day before twi sent the shuttle buses to pick people up at the airport), and "camp" in the airport until the next day when the shuttle buses showed up. He prayed about all this regularly, of course.
As it turned out, the assigned seat next to his was occupied by someone arriving a day early for the ROA. They were going to be picked up at the airport by another attendee, go have dinner, then proceed to an RV that was going to be mostly vacant until the next day when the others arrived. Because of that, the guy had a lift, a place to stay for the night, and people to hang out with and watch his back.
The odds of him sitting next to someone else attending were small. This was the day before, and it wasn't like the NEXT day the airport would be full of ROA attendees, nor the planes. It appeared as if the only person on the plane who was going there was seated next to him. The probability of that happening by chance was not zero, it was not impossible. However, it was incredibly improbable- enough, at the very least, to raise a few eyebrows.
How do I know this happened? I was the guy in the other seat. As to anything else that he said happened in the days before, I didn't witness them so I don't know for sure they happened, or that they happened quite the way he said. However, what I saw was interesting enough, to say the least.
I have no problems with testimonials. They’re everywhere for anything and everything! I DO have a problem with the smarmy charm and the slick rap of a “spiritual” grifter for self-dealing. That is NOT a testimonial. It is a con. And, in this case, a necessary cover-up of criminal, anti-Christ behavior over a long period of time. I do not patronize or accept these kinds of mentally ill people, I confront them and get them to seek treatment. THAT is both the correct and Christian thing to do, dontchya think???
these are testimonials of healing of the physical body...but Hey WW that was a fun one & very inspirational how good our God is to provide for you in your hour of need...after all these years ..no one can convince you that it was all in your head
also, I posted this last week I believe & no one has said they'd like to check out the web site..which is fine..just thought I'd offer & my offer still stands long term... JJ ;^)
How about a new Doctrinal sub forum, Raf? Label it “Abject Ex-wayfer Horsedang”. Jack’s posts would comprise most of the forum. As a matter of fact, I suggest you just add them onto Mike’s archived posts and bury them there. Thank you for listening.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hey Raf!
why is the bullshit promotion of lies and tall tales permitted in the Doctrinal Forums??? I find it horribly OFFENSIVE. Please advise. Thank You.
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waysider
Hello, Jim Jack
Were you in The Way?
When I was in The Way, many years ago, we were taught that it's "off the word" to give personal testimony. While I no longer subscribe to the teachings of The Way, I'm still curious about the reasoning for that. Can you offer any insight?
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JayDee
For whatever it’s worth, I’m in agreement with DWBH. This topic doesn’t belong in Doctrinal.
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WordWolf
That is a good question. Were you ever in that organization, and, if so, where and when?
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WordWolf
If it gets moved from Doctrinal, it will either get sent to Soap Opera (if it descends to drama and name-calling), or be locked and/or deleted as being off-topic even for Doctrinal.
The GSC is for ex-twi, for twi survivors. No belief system is assumed or required. So, generally, discussions of belief go in Doctrinal or its skeptical subforum. There is no subforum for non-skepticism, so it's Doctrinal or post it elsewhere.
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jim jack
yes I was "in " from 1975-1987..ex-wife as well.."wow" twice so I "paid my dues"..testimonials of people being healed were not what we were used to in TWI...as these are from another ministry that specializes in divine healings & raising the dead..not too sure where it belongs... I always held to the idea that testimonials were & are a worthwhile thing, & perhaps would help encourage others to trust in their Lord. Thats a matter of opinion I suppose so I'm saying it is my opinion & am curious if others out there in cyberspace think as I do or contrary....as I respect people being different...it didn't seem to be a bad thing for the children of Israel to pass down from generation to generation.especially if you wanted your children to "follow in your footsteps of believing in God & his power"..so yeh..put it where you want it as I think its a viable discussion item & of course I can always give you the addy of where I'm reading these wonderful testimonies.. Bless ya 'z
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jim jack
waysider asked where & when...WOW in Massachusetts & Pa...lived in Indiana most of those years (l2)..great times & saddened to see how quickly it fell apart in terms of genuine friends that ceased to communicate.."we have no friends when it comes to da word" yeh right..LOL
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DontWorryBeHappy
How about a new Doctrinal sub forum, Raf? Label it “Abject Ex-wayfer Horseshit”. Jack’s posts would comprise most of the forum. As a matter of fact, I suggest you just add them onto Mike’s archived posts and bury them there. Thank you for listening.
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waysider
Well, actually, I didn't ask where and when. I only asked if you had been in The Way. Thank you for the response, though.
Now, back to the question: Why do you think The Way discouraged personal testimonies? It was never adequately explained to me and I remain curious.
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WordWolf
You asked if he was in. I followed up by asking where and when, which caused a little confusion.
But, yes, this question's worth asking. Why DID twi discourage personal testimonies? Except, of course, when vpw made them....
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Modgellan
You are correct. This is the proper location for the thread.
As always, if a topic loses interest it works its way to the second page and beyond. Meanwhile, comment if it is interesting and ignore if it doesn’t.
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Raf
Except if you're me, there's no way to distinguish.
I'll discuss with ModTheOtherGuy and we'll figure it out.
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Raf
Oh, i missed it. ModTheOtherGuy has already been here.
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Raf
Ok, so, without the modhat:
Testimonials are CLAIMS. They are not evidence for those claims.
People need to understand the difference.
If I tell you I stayed home from work today because I was sick, the amount of evidence you need to support that claim is minimal. There's nothing extraordinary about the claim. Therefore, there is nothing extraordinary about the amount of evidence you require to believe it.
If I were to tell you I stayed home from work today because last night I was abducted by space aliens, you would demand proof. And it had better be good. My claim, by itself, would be inadequate (to say the least) as proof.
I had someone look me straight in the eye and tell me she had HIV. Then she looked me straight in the eye a couple of years later and praised God because it was GONE! Hallelujah! I relied on this person to help me understand things that only someone with HIV would know. Made me look like an idiot. After a while it hit me: she never had HIV. Given the set of facts, it was the explanation that is most probable.
Testimonials are not evidence of themselves. By all means, draw inspiration from them if you will. But when you start presenting them as evidence of their own veracity, buckle up. Immabout to get rude.
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jim jack
waysider..I don't believe I'm the one that stated that TWI discouraged testimonies..I believe it was another poster....anyway..in the dozen years of being in the outfit..just very very few ,ever really saw any kinds of miracles..especially in our area, thus we were never "warned" to "keep it to ourselves"..I think that is what is so refreshing about this list of testimonials..just really thankful people who went after getting healed or did the ministering & saw results..really nothing to be ashamed of..as to me its enlightening & inspirational & gets me to think more & more "outside the box" of if/when we limit God & his power...to me it opens up avenues of possibilites & God loves to come thru ALOT of the times..
Also I think this DOES belong in doctrinal because it (deliverance) is based on what doctrine or false doctrine one has bought into, that could interfere with the deliverance happening..thats exactly what I'm learning about.."sacred cows" that we've held in high esteem but can be the very mind sets that can discourage people from seeking God's help first.. destroying such sacred cows..seems to the open up some great deliverances,,which is what this listing indicates.. pretty exciting IMHO
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WordWolf
I tend to approach testimonies carefully BECAUSE I know that some people are: A) great big liars or B) not smart and honestly mistaken or unobservant or C) fanatical enough to ignore more mundane possibilities
So, I don't dismiss them categorically. but I do approach them carefully, and I tend not to blow a trumpet on things I've been in on.
However, I'll let you have one for free. It happened back in 1988.
There was this guy coming off the WOW field. He was on a super-tight budget and "camping" in airports because hotel rooms would have been outside his budget. (He said some things happened in the last few days of his tour of wow-ness.) His plan at the end was to wait in a local airport where he was, take a plane to Dayton Airport the day before everybody travels there for the ROA (the day before twi sent the shuttle buses to pick people up at the airport), and "camp" in the airport until the next day when the shuttle buses showed up. He prayed about all this regularly, of course.
As it turned out, the assigned seat next to his was occupied by someone arriving a day early for the ROA. They were going to be picked up at the airport by another attendee, go have dinner, then proceed to an RV that was going to be mostly vacant until the next day when the others arrived. Because of that, the guy had a lift, a place to stay for the night, and people to hang out with and watch his back.
The odds of him sitting next to someone else attending were small. This was the day before, and it wasn't like the NEXT day the airport would be full of ROA attendees, nor the planes. It appeared as if the only person on the plane who was going there was seated next to him. The probability of that happening by chance was not zero, it was not impossible. However, it was incredibly improbable- enough, at the very least, to raise a few eyebrows.
How do I know this happened? I was the guy in the other seat. As to anything else that he said happened in the days before, I didn't witness them so I don't know for sure they happened, or that they happened quite the way he said. However, what I saw was interesting enough, to say the least.
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DontWorryBeHappy
I have no problems with testimonials. They’re everywhere for anything and everything! I DO have a problem with the smarmy charm and the slick rap of a “spiritual” grifter for self-dealing. That is NOT a testimonial. It is a con. And, in this case, a necessary cover-up of criminal, anti-Christ behavior over a long period of time. I do not patronize or accept these kinds of mentally ill people, I confront them and get them to seek treatment. THAT is both the correct and Christian thing to do, dontchya think???
Edited by DontWorryBeHappySpelling
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jim jack
these are testimonials of healing of the physical body...but Hey WW that was a fun one & very inspirational how good our God is to provide for you in your hour of need...after all these years ..no one can convince you that it was all in your head
also, I posted this last week I believe & no one has said they'd like to check out the web site..which is fine..just thought I'd offer & my offer still stands long term... JJ ;^)
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WordWolf
(Actually, it was how God provided for THE OTHER GUY. I was the guy who offered him a ride and a place to stay when he needed it.)
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jim jack
oh..I think I missed what you were intending..my bad
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, I second that motion!!
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