well..that is what I'm "calling" what I'm about to share..as for those of you who spoke or speak in tongues (SIT) and interpret..perhaps this might be of interest to you..
When I first did PFAL & the following class on interpretation & prophesy...they allowed a question & answer period at the end of the finale..well my question way back when was : "am I allowed to interpret my tongue for myself"..like a self edification of sorts..as I've interpreted several times over the time period I was "in " TWI..so having been asked to leave years ago..I began to wonder about certain aspect of what I'd been taught.. The answer I received was "no!!! its just for being within a group of believers or unbelievers..& not for any private edification"
So skip ahead 20 years and I, one day, decided to "go to the source" (God)...so I just asked & a few days later I not seeing any reason why I shouldn't decided to try it..say l minute of tongues & l minute of interpretation..well I did this quite often and some of the interpretations were super..& one day I was doing it and I sensed in my spirit the Lord asking me "do you remember what I said last time you did this?..I had remembered that it was a very powerful interpretation, but for the life of me...didn't have any clue & the next question laid on me was..'well what are you gona do about it??" LOL..well..I thought about it for a few & then came up with recording just the interpretations on cassette tapes..which I've been faithfully doing for nearly 5 years.. I play them back..say when I'm doing the dishes or mindless housework & they just never get old and are quite edifying. IF it really is God or holy spirit or Jesus speaking thru me, which I believe it is..are we interested in keeping those words as edifying in the future??
Well...about two weeks ago, I was doing it & I got all done and my thought was "I'm not quite done".lolol...so at the time I was laying in my bed and I shut up and let the words continue to flow in my mind and OH MY GOSH..he wasn't done..as l/2 hr later he did finish & I was superblessed at what I was being shown..very very intimate...so I call this extended interpretation..."spirit of God providing the "words" even if unspoken.. It happens to parallel two different verses... "Christ in you..." and "we have the mind of Christ!" !!!!!
So I've been faithfully doing this nearly two weeks now..it's never boring believe me..especially when he's getting into minute details of what he'd like me to consider...sometimes I get up..get on the puter & write out what I just "heard" and most of the time I just lay there & bask in it.
If Christ lives within us...can this be a way that he would utilize to get thru this 4 inch thick skull of mine? What thinkest thou?? ;^)
JJ, do you have any scriptural basis for any of that?
You said, "Am I allowed to do that?"
Well, whatever it is you are doing, is there anyone or anything that is prohibiting or preventing you from doing it? (rhetorical question)
To me, it seems the real question isn't whether you're "allowed to do that," but rather "what is it that you are actually doing?"
Can it hurt you to record something you feel inspired to say out loud? I doubt it.
Is it reasonable to label the practice "interpretation of tongues" or "prophecy?" I don't know that anyone can stop you from doing so whether what you are doing/describing matches anything that might fit a biblical definition of either of those things.
That said, even if (though) I think you're likely off your rocker, who am I to judge you if you're not hurting anyone? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Waysider.
Some time ago, we had several inter-connected discussions here. They were on the subject of speaking in tongues, and what we called speaking in tongues, and what they had in common, and what they did not. As the discussions ran their course, and I examined everything said, and everything I COULD say, I changed my position. I have no proof that the speaking in tongues, as mentioned in the Bible, does not occur today somewhere, nor that it is not "available" today. However- I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt, that what we learned in twi, and what is practiced today as "speaking in tongues" is neither the thing from the Bible, nor proceeding from God, but rather a secular activity which is done by actors every day. The only difference is that we THINK what we're doing is from God, and they know they're doing it of themselves. (Likewise, people who think they have to throw themselves on the floor when doing it are choosing to do so, and so on.) So, I don't think that what we called "speaking in tongues" was anything of the sort, or any kind of language.
(I can link you to several threads where we discussed this. We split the discussion into different threads, so that someone who only wanted to discuss one thing could find it- and the main discussion kept getting side-tracked so badly that I felt very good points were getting lost. So, we had a thread on the secular practice that performs EXACTLY like what we did, we had a thread on what language is, and so on. To explore ALL of it would take a LOT of reading, which is one reason to look at the threads individually.)
So, where would that leave "interpretation of tongues" and "prophecy"? Although I do think that OCCASIONALLY we got an actual message from God through them, the vast majority of the time, I think they were from the minds of the people performing them- which is understandable and to-be-expected under the circumstances in which we learned how to do them.
Taking all of THAT into consideration, what would I say about what you're doing?
I think it's much the same. OCCASIONALLY, there MIGHT be an actual message from God that gets through. The vast majority of the time, it would be you, thinking about what a message of God is SUPPOSED to look like and say, and producing a message that fits your own notion as to what that would be. That doesn't make you a bad person, nor crazy. It doesn't make you right nor receiving messages from God, either.
That's my honest, measured opinion, for all that it's worth. You're free to consider it carefully, or dismiss it automatically, or anything else.
At this point I'm not really looking for so called "approval" from anyone & if in the past you did SIT & interpreted and it did edify you & the others ( a method of giving to the body of Christ or to the unbeliever) & since this is a "private thing " which definitely IMHO is blessing me..the only response I have is "try it..you may see a value in it!" To 99.99% of my world out there..they usually would have little or no reply let alone a response, to this sharing..but to former TWI people..this might be of value..just something I'm faithfully doing & enjoying what I'm "hearing"...my mother always called stuff like this "food for thought"...important or not important? Thus far to me... its been important!
At this point I'm not really looking for so called "approval" from anyone & if in the past you did SIT & interpreted and it did edify you & the others ( a method of giving to the body of Christ or to the unbeliever) & since this is a "private thing " which definitely IMHO is blessing me..the only response I have is "try it..you may see a value in it!" To 99.99% of my world out there..they usually would have little or no reply let alone a response, to this sharing..but to former TWI people..this might be of value..just something I'm faithfully doing & enjoying what I'm "hearing"...my mother always called stuff like this "food for thought"...important or not important? Thus far to me... its been important!
thanx Rocky & yeh waysider..this has been quite revealing as I do my best to attempt to follow what I believe is the Lord leading me..so for now this is where I'm at..it is alot of fun, as it gets very detailed at times..which the more I think about it, doesn't suprise me, as I think God's big into "details" & not getting off on tangents..so that has been pleasant & am looking forward to more insights..Bless you both richly!! JJ
yes this has been very good for me personally..as I'm reminded of the verse that speaks of those who heal the sick in having poor motives & the Lord says "I never knew you"..never want that to be the case with the Lord & I as its cool being on talking terms with him
waysider:
"In my opinion, you're dabbling in self delusion."
Rocky:
"That said, even if (though) I think you're likely off your rocker, who am I to judge you if you're not hurting anyone? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Waysider. "
WordWolf:
" What do I think?
1) I think God does have information to give us.
2) I think we are far too quick to label things as information God has for us. (snip)
Taking all of THAT into consideration, what would I say about what you're doing?
I think it's much the same. (snip)
That doesn't make you a bad person, nor crazy. It doesn't make you right nor receiving messages from God, either."
jim jack:
"At this point I'm not really looking for so called "approval" from anyone"
Well, you were in the original post. If you ask for people's opinions- which you did- don't be shocked when some of them, or all of them, disagree with you.
word wolf..oh don't worry..I've had plenty of negativity from a few posters..but keep in mind I didn't post it to draw criticism..but we live in a very judgemental world & perhaps a few people reading this might begin interpreting for themselves & then just let it flow through their minds as I do daily & experience what I'm hearing....just offering the possibility to perhaps another..Allen seems to think there's a good value in it..so that was cool to hear! Constructive criticism would be helpful..but people for some reason like to use destructive..which honestly I feel bad for them..not here to hurt anyone but perhaps to help.
word wolf..oh don't worry..I've had plenty of negativity from a few posters..but keep in mind I didn't post it to draw criticism..but we live in a very judgemental world & perhaps a few people reading this might begin interpreting for themselves & then just let it flow through their minds as I do daily & experience what I'm hearing....just offering the possibility to perhaps another..Allen seems to think there's a good value in it..so that was cool to hear! Constructive criticism would be helpful..but people for some reason like to use destructive..which honestly I feel bad for them..not here to hurt anyone but perhaps to help.
I'm sure you meant more to offer it for others to like, which happened with Allan. However, you phrased it with a question- so we answered your question. Most of us don't have a beef with you even if we disagree. (Most of us don't have detailed, personal reasons to have a beef with you. One of us certainly seems to.) Mind you, I'm sure we all reserve the right to change our opinions and tones, one way or another, depending on what we're responding to. (We've seen posters condemn women for the crime of letting vpw drug and rape them, then later say that he drugged and raped them- and some of us responded rather sharply to that, for example.)
Also, there's no single consensus of opinion around here. We are all free to think as we wish, and to disagree freely. So, we do. Please don't think otherwise, and don't paint all of us with the same brush. (Now, THAT can get everyone to start liking you less...)
thanks WW..I'll take that to heart as in sharing this..I felt it was an interesting subject that perhaps hadn't been discussed..plus the fact that I see him now & then thought it might be of interest to others..we think there are healings that happen but dead raising is seldom right in front of us like it is with me..lol
I think some of us find this story of interest, but for very different reasons than you do. Also, nothing even in the newspaper article suggested this was a "dead raising."
This thread is about extended interpretation of tongues. The OTHER thread is about the exaggerated "raising of the dead" story where the guy was never dead and nothing supernatural is even alleged to have happened except in the working brain of a man in a coma.
I'll say this once so as not to derail a thread where being a believer is the expectation (reserving my right to think and post differently):
Interpretation of tongues is extemporaneous speech (or, more precisely, impromptu speech). There's nothing remotely supernatural about it, and you're not interpreting what is spoken in a tongue because (news flash) your "tongue" is not another language, and thus not what the Bible describes.
If you are a believer, then you want what the Bible promises. Speaking in tongues, as we practiced it, is NOT what the Bible promises. Interpretation and prophecy have perfectly natural explanations that fit the facts better than the notion that something supernatural is taking place.
I'll say this once so as not to derail a thread where being a believer is the expectation (reserving my right to think and post differently):
Interpretation of tongues is extemporaneous speech (or, more precisely, impromptu speech). There's nothing remotely supernatural about it, and you're not interpreting what is spoken in a tongue because (news flash) your "tongue" is not another language, and thus not what the Bible describes.
If you are a believer, then you want what the Bible promises. Speaking in tongues, as we practiced it, is NOT what the Bible promises. Interpretation and prophecy have perfectly natural explanations that fit the facts better than the notion that something supernatural is taking place.
A) He mixed the topics, I responded briefly to his post. Responding briefly to YOUR post:
B) IF the Bible is actually correct, the things in I Corinthians called "interpretation" (of tongues) and "prophecy" are, apparently, supernatural, as is the tongue. The thing twi'ers were taught was the same thing mainly resembles it in being told "this is the same thing" and people believing it's the same thing. (ThingS, but you know what I mean.)
And several of those are in Doctrinal, one in Questioning Faith, and 2 in About the Way.
If anyone wants to discuss something relevant, they should pick the thread that it's relevant TO and revive the thread. (The GSC doesn't mind "necroíng" a thread if it's relevant.)
I would say I don't disagree with you, except I can't make heads or tails of what you said.
Mainly, I posted links to the other discussions. If they want to follow up on the mundane practice of vocalizing, or discuss the Bible on it, or approach it skeptically, they can follow the links to the other discussions and revive whichever one they want to participate in.
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waysider
In my opinion, you're dabbling in self delusion.
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Rocky
JJ, do you have any scriptural basis for any of that?
Edited by RockyYou said, "Am I allowed to do that?"
Well, whatever it is you are doing, is there anyone or anything that is prohibiting or preventing you from doing it? (rhetorical question)
To me, it seems the real question isn't whether you're "allowed to do that," but rather "what is it that you are actually doing?"
Can it hurt you to record something you feel inspired to say out loud? I doubt it.
Is it reasonable to label the practice "interpretation of tongues" or "prophecy?" I don't know that anyone can stop you from doing so whether what you are doing/describing matches anything that might fit a biblical definition of either of those things.
That said, even if (though) I think you're likely off your rocker, who am I to judge you if you're not hurting anyone? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Waysider.
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WordWolf
What do I think?
1) I think God does have information to give us.
2) I think we are far too quick to label things as information God has for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some time ago, we had several inter-connected discussions here. They were on the subject of speaking in tongues, and what we called speaking in tongues, and what they had in common, and what they did not. As the discussions ran their course, and I examined everything said, and everything I COULD say, I changed my position. I have no proof that the speaking in tongues, as mentioned in the Bible, does not occur today somewhere, nor that it is not "available" today. However- I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt, that what we learned in twi, and what is practiced today as "speaking in tongues" is neither the thing from the Bible, nor proceeding from God, but rather a secular activity which is done by actors every day. The only difference is that we THINK what we're doing is from God, and they know they're doing it of themselves. (Likewise, people who think they have to throw themselves on the floor when doing it are choosing to do so, and so on.) So, I don't think that what we called "speaking in tongues" was anything of the sort, or any kind of language.
(I can link you to several threads where we discussed this. We split the discussion into different threads, so that someone who only wanted to discuss one thing could find it- and the main discussion kept getting side-tracked so badly that I felt very good points were getting lost. So, we had a thread on the secular practice that performs EXACTLY like what we did, we had a thread on what language is, and so on. To explore ALL of it would take a LOT of reading, which is one reason to look at the threads individually.)
So, where would that leave "interpretation of tongues" and "prophecy"? Although I do think that OCCASIONALLY we got an actual message from God through them, the vast majority of the time, I think they were from the minds of the people performing them- which is understandable and to-be-expected under the circumstances in which we learned how to do them.
============================================================
Taking all of THAT into consideration, what would I say about what you're doing?
I think it's much the same. OCCASIONALLY, there MIGHT be an actual message from God that gets through. The vast majority of the time, it would be you, thinking about what a message of God is SUPPOSED to look like and say, and producing a message that fits your own notion as to what that would be. That doesn't make you a bad person, nor crazy. It doesn't make you right nor receiving messages from God, either.
That's my honest, measured opinion, for all that it's worth. You're free to consider it carefully, or dismiss it automatically, or anything else.
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jim jack
At this point I'm not really looking for so called "approval" from anyone & if in the past you did SIT & interpreted and it did edify you & the others ( a method of giving to the body of Christ or to the unbeliever) & since this is a "private thing " which definitely IMHO is blessing me..the only response I have is "try it..you may see a value in it!" To 99.99% of my world out there..they usually would have little or no reply let alone a response, to this sharing..but to former TWI people..this might be of value..just something I'm faithfully doing & enjoying what I'm "hearing"...my mother always called stuff like this "food for thought"...important or not important? Thus far to me... its been important!
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Rocky
More power to you, as they say.
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waysider
"If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad."
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jim jack
thanx Rocky & yeh waysider..this has been quite revealing as I do my best to attempt to follow what I believe is the Lord leading me..so for now this is where I'm at..it is alot of fun, as it gets very detailed at times..which the more I think about it, doesn't suprise me, as I think God's big into "details" & not getting off on tangents..so that has been pleasant & am looking forward to more insights..Bless you both richly!! JJ
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Allan
I'm with you on this JimJack ! I tend to write mine down as I don't want to forget them.
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jim jack
yes this has been very good for me personally..as I'm reminded of the verse that speaks of those who heal the sick in having poor motives & the Lord says "I never knew you"..never want that to be the case with the Lord & I as its cool being on talking terms with him
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DontWorryBeHappy
What a total crock of ages.
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WordWolf
jim jack, thread's original post:
"What thinkest thou?? ;^) "
waysider:
"In my opinion, you're dabbling in self delusion."
Rocky:
"That said, even if (though) I think you're likely off your rocker, who am I to judge you if you're not hurting anyone? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Waysider. "
WordWolf:
" What do I think?
1) I think God does have information to give us.
2) I think we are far too quick to label things as information God has for us. (snip)
Taking all of THAT into consideration, what would I say about what you're doing?
I think it's much the same. (snip)
That doesn't make you a bad person, nor crazy. It doesn't make you right nor receiving messages from God, either."
jim jack:
"At this point I'm not really looking for so called "approval" from anyone"
Well, you were in the original post. If you ask for people's opinions- which you did- don't be shocked when some of them, or all of them, disagree with you.
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jim jack
word wolf..oh don't worry..I've had plenty of negativity from a few posters..but keep in mind I didn't post it to draw criticism..but we live in a very judgemental world & perhaps a few people reading this might begin interpreting for themselves & then just let it flow through their minds as I do daily & experience what I'm hearing....just offering the possibility to perhaps another..Allen seems to think there's a good value in it..so that was cool to hear! Constructive criticism would be helpful..but people for some reason like to use destructive..which honestly I feel bad for them..not here to hurt anyone but perhaps to help.
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Rocky
holy crap
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WordWolf
I'm sure you meant more to offer it for others to like, which happened with Allan. However, you phrased it with a question- so we answered your question. Most of us don't have a beef with you even if we disagree. (Most of us don't have detailed, personal reasons to have a beef with you. One of us certainly seems to.) Mind you, I'm sure we all reserve the right to change our opinions and tones, one way or another, depending on what we're responding to. (We've seen posters condemn women for the crime of letting vpw drug and rape them, then later say that he drugged and raped them- and some of us responded rather sharply to that, for example.)
Also, there's no single consensus of opinion around here. We are all free to think as we wish, and to disagree freely. So, we do. Please don't think otherwise, and don't paint all of us with the same brush. (Now, THAT can get everyone to start liking you less...)
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waysider
I talk to the wind.
My words are all carried away.
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jim jack
thanks WW..I'll take that to heart as in sharing this..I felt it was an interesting subject that perhaps hadn't been discussed..plus the fact that I see him now & then thought it might be of interest to others..we think there are healings that happen but dead raising is seldom right in front of us like it is with me..lol
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WordWolf
I think some of us find this story of interest, but for very different reasons than you do. Also, nothing even in the newspaper article suggested this was a "dead raising."
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Raf
You guys are mixing topics.
This thread is about extended interpretation of tongues. The OTHER thread is about the exaggerated "raising of the dead" story where the guy was never dead and nothing supernatural is even alleged to have happened except in the working brain of a man in a coma.
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Raf
I'll say this once so as not to derail a thread where being a believer is the expectation (reserving my right to think and post differently):
Interpretation of tongues is extemporaneous speech (or, more precisely, impromptu speech). There's nothing remotely supernatural about it, and you're not interpreting what is spoken in a tongue because (news flash) your "tongue" is not another language, and thus not what the Bible describes.
If you are a believer, then you want what the Bible promises. Speaking in tongues, as we practiced it, is NOT what the Bible promises. Interpretation and prophecy have perfectly natural explanations that fit the facts better than the notion that something supernatural is taking place.
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WordWolf
A) He mixed the topics, I responded briefly to his post. Responding briefly to YOUR post:
B) IF the Bible is actually correct, the things in I Corinthians called "interpretation" (of tongues) and "prophecy" are, apparently, supernatural, as is the tongue. The thing twi'ers were taught was the same thing mainly resembles it in being told "this is the same thing" and people believing it's the same thing. (ThingS, but you know what I mean.)
Some threads we discussed this on.... One side-thread on "what is language" - https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24206-what-is-language/
One side-thread on "free vocalization" (a non-supernatural/ mundane practice actors do) https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23550-free-vocalization/
This one started with links to all the other threads: Another discussion on SIT https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24434-another-discussion-on-sit-and-the-bible/
And several of those are in Doctrinal, one in Questioning Faith, and 2 in About the Way.
If anyone wants to discuss something relevant, they should pick the thread that it's relevant TO and revive the thread. (The GSC doesn't mind "necroíng" a thread if it's relevant.)
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Raf
I would say I don't disagree with you, except I can't make heads or tails of what you said.
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WordWolf
Mainly, I posted links to the other discussions. If they want to follow up on the mundane practice of vocalizing, or discuss the Bible on it, or approach it skeptically, they can follow the links to the other discussions and revive whichever one they want to participate in.
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Raf
i meant B
but yeah
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Raf
Ok, so let me get this right:
If the Bible is right, interpretation and prophecy are supernatural.
But that is no guarantee that what we were taught and practices in TWI were supernatural.
So, if that's what you're saying, without committing either way on interpretation or especially prophesy, then we are in agreement.
I, of course, believe it's ALL a bunch of hooey, but that started as a deduction, not as a presupposition.
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