i have been in california since the mid 1980's. I have personally known all the limb coordinators during that time. WHO was the limb coordinator you are referring to ? i have never heard of or seen the things you accuse the way of and i have been next to leadership many times until the past 2 years. I have never met anyone or any leader here that does what you say. If Weirwille has such a hold on people all those that took the class would still be around. I was gone for a few years once. Over last 2 years I have to get off my butt and go to fellowship which means they dont have a hold on me. I know there were some false teachers that were around but all church groups have those and the catholic church has child rapist.
Perhaps one of the most insidious aspects of TWI’s indoctrination was to instill (by a gradual but firm process) in followers a deep trust in wierwille. This is rather obvious even in PFAL, where wierwille worked so hard to convince students to suspend critical thinking. With his silly notion that the Bible prohibits private interpretation he asserts the Bible actually interprets itself, thus laying the groundwork for students to firmly believe that what wierwille taught was the ONLY CORRECT or AUTHORIZED interpretation of the Bible, the Scriptures, the Word, or whatever you want to call it. Given that even the simplest definition of “interpretation” is explanation, clarification, analysis, and evaluation – for one to claim that the Bible interprets itself is absurd! Folks may not still be in TWI but they may still be held captive in the bizarro-fundamentalist mindset wierwille instilled in them.
It was merely a mental sleight-of-hand via wierwille’s charisma, logical fallacies, cobbled together plagiarism, and the unabashed incompetency of a narcissistic zealot that he got a lot of folks to think he was giving them a true understanding of the scriptures. I think that the more one’s misplaced trust of wierwille grew – the more wierwille’s subterfuge agenda took root in the person – like being intertwined. Perhaps a cult leader’s power is in part derived from the followers – their misplaced trust helps to cement the bond – or whatever “hold” the cult leader has on them…
The depth and degree of wierwille’s “hold” on followers varied – for numerous reasons besides length and depth of involvement with The Way, since we are all individual and unique. Like any exploitative cult leader, wierwille was parasitic and he based his “ministry” on deception and manipulation; in the long run however, “holding” onto dedicated followers is unsustainable, in my humble opinion. People get fed up, frustrated, tired of being used and lied to, or they see through the bull$hit of PFAL, or start looking into red flags they’ve known of for a while… or for any number of other reasons – so they leave. Whatever manipulative “hold” TWI had on them is now broken…yeah !!! that’s the best kind of severing ties – when you cut the ties with a false church/family like TWI !!!
Perhaps one of the most insidious aspects of TWI’s indoctrination was to instill (by a gradual but firm process) in followers a deep trust in wierwille. This is rather obvious even in PFAL, where wierwille worked so hard to convince students to suspend critical thinking. With his silly notion that the Bible prohibits private interpretation he asserts the Bible actually interprets itself, thus laying the groundwork for students to firmly believe that what wierwille taught was the ONLY CORRECT or AUTHORIZED interpretation of the Bible, the Scriptures, the Word, or whatever you want to call it. Given that even the simplest definition of “interpretation” is explanation, clarification, analysis, and evaluation – for one to claim that the Bible interprets itself is absurd! Folks may not still be in TWI but they may still be held captive in the bizarro-fundamentalist mindset wierwille instilled in them.
It was merely a mental sleight-of-hand via wierwille’s charisma, logical fallacies, cobbled together plagiarism, and the unabashed incompetency of a narcissistic zealot that he got a lot of folks to think he was giving them a true understanding of the scriptures. I think that the more one’s misplaced trust of wierwille grew – the more wierwille’s subterfuge agenda took root in the person – like being intertwined. Perhaps a cult leader’s power is in part derived from the followers – their misplaced trust helps to cement the bond – or whatever “hold” the cult leader has on them…
The depth and degree of wierwille’s “hold” on followers varied – for numerous reasons besides length and depth of involvement with The Way, since we are all individual and unique. Like any exploitative cult leader, wierwille was parasitic and he based his “ministry” on deception and manipulation; in the long run however, “holding” onto dedicated followers is unsustainable, in my humble opinion. People get fed up, frustrated, tired of being used and lied to, or they see through the bull$hit of PFAL, or start looking into red flags they’ve known of for a while… or for any number of other reasons – so they leave. Whatever manipulative “hold” TWI had on them is now broken…yeah !!! that’s the best kind of severing ties – when you cut the ties with a false church/family like TWI !!!
Interesting thought - the Bible interprets itself. So here Wierwille is introducing a "personification" of the literal scripture here. A figure of speech about the Bible itself. And what does this Bible do? Self-interprets.
What purpose does this figure of speech serve?
To hide the hand of Wierwille's interpretation? Put in place of it the Bible itself doing the interpreting and coming up with the exact thing Wierwille is saying?
This totally reminds me of the movie "The Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey plays a fictional crimelord Kaizer Soze. The famous quote from the movie is:
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.'
That is the true "greatest secret the world never knew" and the truth behind Victor Paul Wierwille's interpretation of the Bible.
Interesting thought - the Bible interprets itself. So here Wierwille is introducing a "personification" of the literal scripture here. A figure of speech about the Bible itself. And what does this Bible do? Self-interprets.
What purpose does this figure of speech serve?
To hide the hand of Wierwille's interpretation? Put in place of it the Bible itself doing the interpreting and coming up with the exact thing Wierwille is saying?
This totally reminds me of the movie "The Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey plays a fictional crimelord Kaizer Soze. The famous quote from the movie is:
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.'
That is the true "greatest secret the world never knew" and the truth behind Victor Paul Wierwille's interpretation of the Bible.
Interesting comparison Chockfull – between wierwille and Kaizer Soze…and another thing came to mind…near the end of the movie The Usual Suspects, the detective – played by Chazz Palminteri – realizes a lot of the details he got from his interrogation of the character Verbal (played by Kevin Spacey – who was actually Kaizer Soze) were things that Verbal (Kaizer) noticed on a cluttered bulletin board in the office.
I see a funny parallel with wierwille’s incompetency “shining forth” from his plagiarism. Bullinger focuses on context, previous usage, etc. in How to Enjoy the Bible by saying in essence – these are the things you need to pay attention to when interpreting the scriptures. Which implies YOU as the reader of the Bible is the one who actually interprets the scriptures - you are the one analyzing the biblical data, noting details, context, syntax, using the powers of reason, etc. Besides the fact that people are fallible and there’s the possibility of misinterpretation – there’s also the possibility there could be more than one legitimate interpretation...wierwille twisted all that around by suggesting private interpretation is prohibited...I mentioned it before - that's another thing he screwed up! what Bullinger said about the passage "no prophecy of the scripture is of private interpretation" was that "of" is genitive of origin - meaning the actual scriptures did not come from someone's own interpretation. It is in reference to their source or origin and NOT how we are to analyze them now.
You made an excellent point of wierwille’s twisting Bullinger’s ideas - to hide the hand of his own interpretation. Like Kaizer piecing together an entire story from a police bulletin board, wierwille cobbled together a mish mosh theology from the works he plagiarized. He was the consummate con artist!
Edited by T-Bone Clarence played the clarinet with great clarity and it was all for charity
that's another thing he screwed up! what Bullinger said about the passage "no prophecy of the scripture is of private interpretation" was that "of" is genitive of origin - meaning the actual scriptures did not come from someone's own interpretation. It is in reference to their source or origin and NOT how we are to analyze them now.
Thank you. That's been my understanding of it for years. But the wayers just kept on parroting back what VPW propounded, without even thinking about it.
It's the same thing with the Way's most prized Biblical research possessions, the "literal translations according to usage". These were seen in the University of Life courses, which were Way Corps teachings.
The quoted words are basically invented language to hide the fact that this is really a commentary on scriptures by a cult leader.
Step 1. Use a 400-year old (450 now) version of the Bible. Insist everyone use it.
Step 2. Tell everyone they have to turn to you to understand this thing. Rely sometimes on the archaic language to say things that it didn't mean. ("Mortify your members". "You know what "mortify" means? It means to blow to smithereens." No, 'mortis' is Latin for 'death.' Morticians don't blow a body to smithereens, they deal with deaths. The Greek word there was "nekrosate", and the Greek word "nekros" for "death" just jumps out of that word. The word didn't mean to use a 20th century mortar weapon, it meant to kill off.) ("no private interpretation" means that you can't interpret it privately." No, the 'one's own letting loose' referred to the origin of Scripture, as the next verse made clear. In forcing the King James English to instill a meaning that wasn't there before, vpw engaged in what he himself would call "private interpretation" -with the verse HE said was telling us not to do that.)
Step 3. Use other versions when no one's looking, and say your research came up with it. Like , say, the Amplified Bible, copyright 1954 on the first commercial version.
Philippians 4:13
KJV: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
"twi's literal translation according to usage:" I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me.
Amplified Bible ("classic" version.) I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me
. (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me [/u]
[/u]I am self-sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency)
Yes, vpw plagiarized the Amplified Bible. It's a paraphrase Bible, and he condemned those loudly and at great length. Once everyone shunned them, he felt free to plagiarize them, confident nobody would go near the original with a 10-foot pole. That plagiarism, as always, saved him a lot of time. It was much easier to just lift the work of others than to do it himself- supposing he had the skill TO do it himself, which was more storied than actual.
Edited by WordWolf formatting error that refuses to be fixed.
Which kinda demands the questions: what about figures of speech? which are certainly NOT literal. And usage at what time period? Because surely also, words change meanings. Which VPW made a big deal of - mainly because he was soooo ignorant that he didn't actually understand the English language, never mind any ancient languages.
Which kinda demands the questions: what about figures of speech? which are certainly NOT literal. And usage at what time period? Because surely also, words change meanings. Which VPW made a big deal of - mainly because he was soooo ignorant that he didn't actually understand the English language, never mind any ancient languages.
Maybe - literals according to AB-usage?
Or even - be-littles according to usage?
Well, based on the insights in Charlene's book about "research," I'd have to say that Taxidev nailed it... literal translation according to what VPW believed it meant. Which was not necessarily what God intended.
i have been in california since the mid 1980's. I have personally known all the limb coordinators during that time. WHO was the limb coordinator you are referring to ? i have never heard of or seen the things you accuse the way of and i have been next to leadership many times until the past 2 years. I have never met anyone or any leader here that does what you say. If Weirwille has such a hold on people all those that took the class would still be around. I was gone for a few years once. Over last 2 years I have to get off my butt and go to fellowship which means they dont have a hold on me. I know there were some false teachers that were around but all church groups have those and the catholic church has child rapist.
I don't know what to tell you but these people are hard core mark and avoid. They will not even use my son's name because it is my grandson's name as well. They call him Greg and refer to my son as 'what's his name'. Does that sound like they are facilitating any bonding between father and son? They have taught him how to hang up the phone during factime - and he is not even 2 years old yet. When he hangs up my son is told by text, because she is not allowed to talk to him, that if the baby doesn't want to talk to him he doesn't have to....... really? does that sound like they honor the court ordered co-parenting agreement? no ALIENATION - OWNERSHIP surely not parenting. It's the parents that have destroyed this young family all in the name of their deep rooted devotion to rebuilding the fellowship and keep us cop out, delusional devil people away. I will see my grandson soon and certainly hope that we can have a visit without tremendous stress but it is unlikely. You obviously haven't had the opportunity to meet these particular leaders. They left CA about the time you arrived in the mid 80's I would guess. It is incredibly sad that courts do not recognize mark and avoid as the abuse it is to families - it is as real and devastating as any abuse. Telling a child a parent abandon them when it is an absolute lie is horrible. Kids that believe parents abandon them have all kinds of emotional problems, when in our case it doesn't have to be so. I watched an incredible video clip of a mom in the service that facetimed her 2 year old every other day and he knew her and was so excited to greet her at the airport - but that fortunate little boy had a dad with him that told facilitated that relationship. It is crazy that it can't be that way for my grandson. He deserves to know how much he is loved.
On 8/22/2018 at 11:39 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
Hi At A Loss!
i am so sorry for the insane and totally unnecessary havoc wreaked upon your lives by the ignorant bigotry of moron wayfers. Greg Lewis was a loser before he was in the 7th corpse, and as usual, the corpse made him into an even bigger .... and bigot! I knew him back then, and the fact that he was ever a limp coordinator ANYWHERE, let alone CA, proves how utterly and pathetically void of anything near “leadership” TWIt has been since 1986!
The fact that an ignorant, talent-less, dumbass below average schlepp like Lewis would be assigned as anything above chair-stringer is yet more proof of the utter dearth of normal human beings in any nook and cranny of wayworld. LOL!
If you were not so far away in miles, I would suggest you sue the dang out of them for kidnapping your grandson and estranging him from his father and paternal grandparents. That is illegal unless adjudicated by a court of law. Expensive yes! Maybe even prohibitively so. But, you do have the right to do so. Money may be the biggest hindrance.
Whatever happens, DO NOT accept one ounce of .... from these morons. They are insane and immoral. They are a danger to the mental and physical well-being of your grandson. There are numerous effective anti-cult groups that may be able to assist you. But I warn you, anything less than cold-hearted JUSTICE will not help you. You must be tough as nails if you want access to your grandson. This is a child custody and child welfare issue. Don’t quit! You’ll win! Godspeed to you and your family!
P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL!
We are headed out to see my grandson soon! I hope we get to have a good visit with him. It is always a stressful time, the exchanges are at the 'safe zone' which I guess is a good thing for us since we know that they can say absolutely anything in court and they lie under oath. It has video recording of the site and is next to police station. Not exactly ideal when there are inmates roaming around washing police cars in the parking lot next to us. If it wasn't so really sad it would be comical with all their theatrics. They show up with multiple cars and people to witness the interaction more for intimidation I think than anything. One exchange they had 3 cars and 6 people. They act like they will be kidnapped and deprogrammed. They told the daughter she can not have any contact with any of us - she will only text and the mother I am sure either edits or writes them.
I watched “The Usual Suspects” again recently - and this time I was amazed by another great trick Verbal (Kaizer) was able to pull off; by his own deceitful narrative of past events Verbal manipulated the detective to think another member of their small band of criminals - Keaton (played by Gabriel Byrne) was actually Kaizer Soze.
In his first post on this thread Skyrider talked about the subterfuge agenda hidden in PFAL , Defeating the Adversary class ...and I think it goes beyond that - into a deep level of deception sewn into the very fabric of a certain frame of thought - the TWI mindset - this acts like a blinders on a horse, you look at only what they direct you to look at.
Like the character Verbal redirecting the detective’s attention - essentially shifting the blame off himself - wierwille, craig and other well trained illusionists were adept at avoidance, minimizing and blame shifting.
If you had a problem with something they said or did or even an issue with a policy or practice - it was because YOU are walking in the flesh...going by your 5 senses ...letting the devilish or worldly influence of family/friends or the church you grew up in sway you...or they’d use some other intentionally obfuscating tactic...anything to get you to sever ties with the real world and your own better judgment.
So-called benefits of the class tended to be nullified by one’s continued commitment to the principles of the class. The supposed development of more harmony in the home went out the window many times when a gung ho grad really took a stand on “the word” - some families and marriages suffered and split up...yeah like Kaizer Soze , manipulative cults like TWI always make greater and greater demands on your commitment and yet any familial, financial or social problems or damage caused by your “stand” are attributed to the world trying to hold you back...remember “when it comes to the word I have no friends. It’s “the word” vs the world”...yeeeccchhhh!
Yeah I think one of the greatest lies by manipulators like wierwille and craig was that false teachers / wolves / predators did not exist in TWI.
Perhaps one of the most insidious aspects of TWI’s indoctrination was to instill (by a gradual but firm process) in followers a deep trust in wierwille. This is rather obvious even in PFAL, where wierwille worked so hard to convince students to suspend critical thinking. With his silly notion that the Bible prohibits private interpretation he asserts the Bible actually interprets itself, thus laying the groundwork for students to firmly believe that what wierwille taught was the ONLY CORRECT or AUTHORIZED interpretation of the Bible, the Scriptures, the Word, or whatever you want to call it. Given that even the simplest definition of “interpretation” is explanation, clarification, analysis, and evaluation – for one to claim that the Bible interprets itself is absurd! Folks may not still be in TWI but they may still be held captive in the bizarro-fundamentalist mindset wierwille instilled in them.
It was merely a mental sleight-of-hand via wierwille’s charisma, logical fallacies, cobbled together plagiarism, and the unabashed incompetency of a narcissistic zealot that he got a lot of folks to think he was giving them a true understanding of the scriptures. I think that the more one’s misplaced trust of wierwille grew – the more wierwille’s subterfuge agenda took root in the person – like being intertwined. Perhaps a cult leader’s power is in part derived from the followers – their misplaced trust helps to cement the bond – or whatever “hold” the cult leader has on them…
The depth and degree of wierwille’s “hold” on followers varied – for numerous reasons besides length and depth of involvement with The Way, since we are all individual and unique. Like any exploitative cult leader, wierwille was parasitic and he based his “ministry” on deception and manipulation; in the long run however, “holding” onto dedicated followers is unsustainable, in my humble opinion. People get fed up, frustrated, tired of being used and lied to, or they see through the bull$hit of PFAL, or start looking into red flags they’ve known of for a while… or for any number of other reasons – so they leave. Whatever manipulative “hold” TWI had on them is now broken…yeah !!! that’s the best kind of severing ties – when you cut the ties with a false church/family like TWI !!!
I was never told or taught to put my trust in VP. Those of us in the fellowships I attended were taught to put our trust in GOD. Look to GOD for answers, worship GOD, put GOD first etc. VP was the name of the teacher and that was all. VP's name rarely came up when he was alive. Thats the way it was in the fellowships I attended. One thing is for sure and that is the Word works when applied ans believed. Anyone including me can prove it doesnt word by not believing it but when I have believed it my prayers have gotten answered. My focus has always been on GOD and not the ministry. The ministry is made of people like us that research the Bible and teach it.
i am so sorry for the insane and totally unnecessary havoc wreaked upon your lives by the ignorant bigotry of moron wayfers. Greg Lewis was a loser before he was in the 7th corpse, and as usual, the corpse made him into an even bigger .... and bigot! I knew him back then, and the fact that he was ever a limp coordinator ANYWHERE, let alone CA, proves how utterly and pathetically void of anything near “leadership” TWIt has been since 1986!
The fact that an ignorant, talent-less, dumbass below average schlepp like Lewis would be assigned as anything above chair-stringer is yet more proof of the utter dearth of normal human beings in any nook and cranny of wayworld. LOL!
If you were not so far away in miles, I would suggest you sue the dang out of them for kidnapping your grandson and estranging him from his father and paternal grandparents. That is illegal unless adjudicated by a court of law. Expensive yes! Maybe even prohibitively so. But, you do have the right to do so. Money may be the biggest hindrance.
Whatever happens, DO NOT accept one ounce of .... from these morons. They are insane and immoral. They are a danger to the mental and physical well-being of your grandson. There are numerous effective anti-cult groups that may be able to assist you. But I warn you, anything less than cold-hearted JUSTICE will not help you. You must be tough as nails if you want access to your grandson. This is a child custody and child welfare issue. Don’t quit! You’ll win! Godspeed to you and your family!
P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL!
you havent a clue dude. At least I have a wonderful life and all my prayers get answered. At least I make GOD my focus instead of focusing on crap that some people in the ministry did. So if you claim I have a waybrain thats fine with me cause I will just get more answers to prayer. For someone to say i am FOS just shows the mental illness you have and the deliverance you need. If you took all that energy and aimed it toward GOD you might just start having a wonderful life that you can share with others.
you havent a clue dude. At least I have a wonderful life and all my prayers get answered. At least I make GOD my focus instead of focusing on crap that some people in the ministry did. So if you claim I have a waybrain thats fine with me cause I will just get more answers to prayer. For someone to say i am FOS just shows the mental illness you have and the deliverance you need. If you took all that energy and aimed it toward GOD you might just start having a wonderful life that you can share with others.
Shift, my, my, my!! Who are you to say that someone has a mental illness, and needs deliverance?? IMO, DWBH has a wonderful life, and he shares it with us here at the GSC. I don't know DWBH personally, nor do I know all that God has done for him, but I know that he was a GREAT MOG. DWBH was one of the few people who could really, really teach, and reach people with The Word; I know because I was one of them. You may, or may not like DWBH, but please don't call him mentally ill. He is many things, but mentally is not one of them.
Shift, my, my, my!! Who are you to say that someone has a mental illness, and needs deliverance?? IMO, DWBH has a wonderful life, and he shares it with us here at the GSC. I don't know DWBH personally, nor do I know all that God has done for him, but I know that he was a GREAT MOG. DWBH was one of the few people who could really, really teach, and reach people with The Word; I know because I was one of them. You may, or may not like DWBH, but please don't call him mentally ill. He is many things, but mentally is not one of them.
did you read the p.s. that he wrote about me ? he doesnt know me ,i never met him, yet he writes this about me > P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL! < Thats what he wrote about me. A wonderful MOG does not make statements like that about people he never met. As for as i am concerned he is an arrogant jerk for saying i am full of sheet and stuck on waybrain stupid and the rest of what he said. He comes across as a major A to put it nicely and yes he needs mental help and he needs to get that from GOD.
did you read the p.s. that he wrote about me ? he doesnt know me ,i never met him, yet he writes this about me > P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL! < Thats what he wrote about me. A wonderful MOG does not make statements like that about people he never met. As for as i am concerned he is an arrogant jerk for saying i am full of sheet and stuck on waybrain stupid and the rest of what he said. He comes across as a major A to put it nicely and yes he needs mental help and he needs to get that from GOD.
Shift, yes I read what he said about you. All of us need help from God-everyday. I think you may be jealous that DWBH is smarter than you, and had a higher position than you in TWI.
thanks for all your pithy posts! You have faithfully proven everything I said about you in the “p.s.” part of a post to someone else. You ARE FOS, and, you are quite obviously still quite stuck in TWIt cult idiocy. My, my! After all these years YOU choose to remain an ignorant, arrogant, stuck-on-stoopeed Wayfer! Congratulations Pilgrim. Your search has ended. You are now officially a know-that-you-know-that-you-know-it-all moron just like dictor paul and the rest of the lying, thieving, weasels you moron wayfers worship and follow instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Get a life you TWIt pimp. It’s still not too late for you to “get right with God”, and give up the lifestyle of anti-Christ wierwille worshippers proving you have no functional grey matter of your own.
God bless, you’re the best! See ya at the Rock! Bwaaaahahahaha!
thanks for all your pithy posts! You have faithfully proven everything I said about you in the “p.s.” part of a post to someone else. You ARE FOS, and, you are quite obviously still quite stuck in TWIt cult idiocy. My, my! After all these years YOU choose to remain an ignorant, arrogant, stuck-on-stoopeed Wayfer! Congratulations Pilgrim. Your search has ended. You are now officially a know-that-you-know-that-you-know-it-all moron just like dictor paul and the rest of the lying, thieving, weasels you moron wayfers worship and follow instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Get a life you TWIt pimp. It’s still not too late for you to “get right with God”, and give up the lifestyle of anti-Christ wierwille worshippers proving you have no functional grey matter of your own.
God bless, you’re the best! See ya at the Rock! Bwaaaahahahaha!
thanks for all your pithy posts! You have faithfully proven everything I said about you in the “p.s.” part of a post to someone else. You ARE FOS, and, you are quite obviously still quite stuck in TWIt cult idiocy. My, my! After all these years YOU choose to remain an ignorant, arrogant, stuck-on-stoopeed Wayfer! Congratulations Pilgrim. Your search has ended. You are now officially a know-that-you-know-that-you-know-it-all moron just like dictor paul and the rest of the lying, thieving, weasels you moron wayfers worship and follow instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Get a life you TWIt pimp. It’s still not too late for you to “get right with God”, and give up the lifestyle of anti-Christ wierwille worshippers proving you have no functional grey matter of your own.
God bless, you’re the best! See ya at the Rock! Bwaaaahahahaha!
You are one of the troublemakers that was kicked out and good riddance. You call me names and put me down and you never met me. how many other people did you do that to when you were going to a wi fellowship ? you are the type that are not welcome at any fellowship and i wouldnt hire you on my construction crew either. Look in the mirror and you see who one of the troublemakers are. IF you would keep your mouth shut and learn to love yourself and treat others with the love of GOD you will get rid of the spirits hanging around you and you will see how wonderful life can be.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi At A Loss! i am so sorry for the insane and totally unnecessary havoc wreaked upon your lives by the ignorant bigotry of moron wayfers. Greg Lewis was a loser before he was in the 7th corpse,
waysider
Pay no attention to shiftthis. He has the credibility of a chia pet. (No offense to chia pets.) I wish you well with your situation.
T-Bone
Perhaps one of the most insidious aspects of TWI’s indoctrination was to instill (by a gradual but firm process) in followers a deep trust in wierwille. This is rather obvious even in PFAL, where wier
T-Bone
Perhaps one of the most insidious aspects of TWI’s indoctrination was to instill (by a gradual but firm process) in followers a deep trust in wierwille. This is rather obvious even in PFAL, where wierwille worked so hard to convince students to suspend critical thinking. With his silly notion that the Bible prohibits private interpretation he asserts the Bible actually interprets itself, thus laying the groundwork for students to firmly believe that what wierwille taught was the ONLY CORRECT or AUTHORIZED interpretation of the Bible, the Scriptures, the Word, or whatever you want to call it. Given that even the simplest definition of “interpretation” is explanation, clarification, analysis, and evaluation – for one to claim that the Bible interprets itself is absurd! Folks may not still be in TWI but they may still be held captive in the bizarro-fundamentalist mindset wierwille instilled in them.
It was merely a mental sleight-of-hand via wierwille’s charisma, logical fallacies, cobbled together plagiarism, and the unabashed incompetency of a narcissistic zealot that he got a lot of folks to think he was giving them a true understanding of the scriptures. I think that the more one’s misplaced trust of wierwille grew – the more wierwille’s subterfuge agenda took root in the person – like being intertwined. Perhaps a cult leader’s power is in part derived from the followers – their misplaced trust helps to cement the bond – or whatever “hold” the cult leader has on them…
The depth and degree of wierwille’s “hold” on followers varied – for numerous reasons besides length and depth of involvement with The Way, since we are all individual and unique. Like any exploitative cult leader, wierwille was parasitic and he based his “ministry” on deception and manipulation; in the long run however, “holding” onto dedicated followers is unsustainable, in my humble opinion. People get fed up, frustrated, tired of being used and lied to, or they see through the bull$hit of PFAL, or start looking into red flags they’ve known of for a while… or for any number of other reasons – so they leave. Whatever manipulative “hold” TWI had on them is now broken…yeah !!! that’s the best kind of severing ties – when you cut the ties with a false church/family like TWI !!!
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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Taxidev
If that were true, then no one would ever leave any cult, and there have actually been news stories of people escaping cults. So, you are incorrect.
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chockfull
Interesting thought - the Bible interprets itself. So here Wierwille is introducing a "personification" of the literal scripture here. A figure of speech about the Bible itself. And what does this Bible do? Self-interprets.
What purpose does this figure of speech serve?
To hide the hand of Wierwille's interpretation? Put in place of it the Bible itself doing the interpreting and coming up with the exact thing Wierwille is saying?
This totally reminds me of the movie "The Usual Suspects" where Kevin Spacey plays a fictional crimelord Kaizer Soze. The famous quote from the movie is:
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.'
That is the true "greatest secret the world never knew" and the truth behind Victor Paul Wierwille's interpretation of the Bible.
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Twinky
Isn't that a statement from PFAL? Plagiarised, of course, though who knows who or what from.
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T-Bone
Interesting comparison Chockfull – between wierwille and Kaizer Soze…and another thing came to mind…near the end of the movie The Usual Suspects, the detective – played by Chazz Palminteri – realizes a lot of the details he got from his interrogation of the character Verbal (played by Kevin Spacey – who was actually Kaizer Soze) were things that Verbal (Kaizer) noticed on a cluttered bulletin board in the office.
I see a funny parallel with wierwille’s incompetency “shining forth” from his plagiarism. Bullinger focuses on context, previous usage, etc. in How to Enjoy the Bible by saying in essence – these are the things you need to pay attention to when interpreting the scriptures. Which implies YOU as the reader of the Bible is the one who actually interprets the scriptures - you are the one analyzing the biblical data, noting details, context, syntax, using the powers of reason, etc. Besides the fact that people are fallible and there’s the possibility of misinterpretation – there’s also the possibility there could be more than one legitimate interpretation...wierwille twisted all that around by suggesting private interpretation is prohibited...I mentioned it before - that's another thing he screwed up! what Bullinger said about the passage "no prophecy of the scripture is of private interpretation" was that "of" is genitive of origin - meaning the actual scriptures did not come from someone's own interpretation. It is in reference to their source or origin and NOT how we are to analyze them now.
You made an excellent point of wierwille’s twisting Bullinger’s ideas - to hide the hand of his own interpretation. Like Kaizer piecing together an entire story from a police bulletin board, wierwille cobbled together a mish mosh theology from the works he plagiarized. He was the consummate con artist!
Edited by T-BoneClarence played the clarinet with great clarity and it was all for charity
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Taxidev
Thank you. That's been my understanding of it for years. But the wayers just kept on parroting back what VPW propounded, without even thinking about it.
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chockfull
It's the same thing with the Way's most prized Biblical research possessions, the "literal translations according to usage". These were seen in the University of Life courses, which were Way Corps teachings.
The quoted words are basically invented language to hide the fact that this is really a commentary on scriptures by a cult leader.
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WordWolf
Step 1. Use a 400-year old (450 now) version of the Bible. Insist everyone use it.
Step 2. Tell everyone they have to turn to you to understand this thing. Rely sometimes on the archaic language to say things that it didn't mean. ("Mortify your members". "You know what "mortify" means? It means to blow to smithereens." No, 'mortis' is Latin for 'death.' Morticians don't blow a body to smithereens, they deal with deaths. The Greek word there was "nekrosate", and the Greek word "nekros" for "death" just jumps out of that word. The word didn't mean to use a 20th century mortar weapon, it meant to kill off.) ("no private interpretation" means that you can't interpret it privately." No, the 'one's own letting loose' referred to the origin of Scripture, as the next verse made clear. In forcing the King James English to instill a meaning that wasn't there before, vpw engaged in what he himself would call "private interpretation" -with the verse HE said was telling us not to do that.)
Step 3. Use other versions when no one's looking, and say your research came up with it. Like , say, the Amplified Bible, copyright 1954 on the first commercial version.
Philippians 4:13
KJV: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
"twi's literal translation according to usage:" I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me.
Amplified Bible ("classic" version.) I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me
. (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me [/u]
[/u]I am self-sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency)
Yes, vpw plagiarized the Amplified Bible. It's a paraphrase Bible, and he condemned those loudly and at great length. Once everyone shunned them, he felt free to plagiarize them, confident nobody would go near the original with a 10-foot pole. That plagiarism, as always, saved him a lot of time. It was much easier to just lift the work of others than to do it himself- supposing he had the skill TO do it himself, which was more storied than actual.
Edited by WordWolfformatting error that refuses to be fixed.
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Taxidev
I was wondering about this just recently - who's literal translation is it? VPW's?
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Twinky
Which kinda demands the questions: what about figures of speech? which are certainly NOT literal. And usage at what time period? Because surely also, words change meanings. Which VPW made a big deal of - mainly because he was soooo ignorant that he didn't actually understand the English language, never mind any ancient languages.
Maybe - literals according to AB-usage?
Or even - be-littles according to usage?
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Rocky
Well, based on the insights in Charlene's book about "research," I'd have to say that Taxidev nailed it... literal translation according to what VPW believed it meant. Which was not necessarily what God intended.
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At A Loss
I don't know what to tell you but these people are hard core mark and avoid. They will not even use my son's name because it is my grandson's name as well. They call him Greg and refer to my son as 'what's his name'. Does that sound like they are facilitating any bonding between father and son? They have taught him how to hang up the phone during factime - and he is not even 2 years old yet. When he hangs up my son is told by text, because she is not allowed to talk to him, that if the baby doesn't want to talk to him he doesn't have to....... really? does that sound like they honor the court ordered co-parenting agreement? no ALIENATION - OWNERSHIP surely not parenting. It's the parents that have destroyed this young family all in the name of their deep rooted devotion to rebuilding the fellowship and keep us cop out, delusional devil people away. I will see my grandson soon and certainly hope that we can have a visit without tremendous stress but it is unlikely. You obviously haven't had the opportunity to meet these particular leaders. They left CA about the time you arrived in the mid 80's I would guess. It is incredibly sad that courts do not recognize mark and avoid as the abuse it is to families - it is as real and devastating as any abuse. Telling a child a parent abandon them when it is an absolute lie is horrible. Kids that believe parents abandon them have all kinds of emotional problems, when in our case it doesn't have to be so. I watched an incredible video clip of a mom in the service that facetimed her 2 year old every other day and he knew her and was so excited to greet her at the airport - but that fortunate little boy had a dad with him that told facilitated that relationship. It is crazy that it can't be that way for my grandson. He deserves to know how much he is loved.
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At A Loss
We are headed out to see my grandson soon! I hope we get to have a good visit with him. It is always a stressful time, the exchanges are at the 'safe zone' which I guess is a good thing for us since we know that they can say absolutely anything in court and they lie under oath. It has video recording of the site and is next to police station. Not exactly ideal when there are inmates roaming around washing police cars in the parking lot next to us. If it wasn't so really sad it would be comical with all their theatrics. They show up with multiple cars and people to witness the interaction more for intimidation I think than anything. One exchange they had 3 cars and 6 people. They act like they will be kidnapped and deprogrammed. They told the daughter she can not have any contact with any of us - she will only text and the mother I am sure either edits or writes them.
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waysider
Pay no attention to shiftthis. He has the credibility of a chia pet. (No offense to chia pets.)
I wish you well with your situation.
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T-Bone
I watched “The Usual Suspects” again recently - and this time I was amazed by another great trick Verbal (Kaizer) was able to pull off; by his own deceitful narrative of past events Verbal manipulated the detective to think another member of their small band of criminals - Keaton (played by Gabriel Byrne) was actually Kaizer Soze.
In his first post on this thread Skyrider talked about the subterfuge agenda hidden in PFAL , Defeating the Adversary class ...and I think it goes beyond that - into a deep level of deception sewn into the very fabric of a certain frame of thought - the TWI mindset - this acts like a blinders on a horse, you look at only what they direct you to look at.
Like the character Verbal redirecting the detective’s attention - essentially shifting the blame off himself - wierwille, craig and other well trained illusionists were adept at avoidance, minimizing and blame shifting.
If you had a problem with something they said or did or even an issue with a policy or practice - it was because YOU are walking in the flesh...going by your 5 senses ...letting the devilish or worldly influence of family/friends or the church you grew up in sway you...or they’d use some other intentionally obfuscating tactic...anything to get you to sever ties with the real world and your own better judgment.
So-called benefits of the class tended to be nullified by one’s continued commitment to the principles of the class. The supposed development of more harmony in the home went out the window many times when a gung ho grad really took a stand on “the word” - some families and marriages suffered and split up...yeah like Kaizer Soze , manipulative cults like TWI always make greater and greater demands on your commitment and yet any familial, financial or social problems or damage caused by your “stand” are attributed to the world trying to hold you back...remember “when it comes to the word I have no friends. It’s “the word” vs the world”...yeeeccchhhh!
Yeah I think one of the greatest lies by manipulators like wierwille and craig was that false teachers / wolves / predators did not exist in TWI.
Edited by T-BoneOops there goes another edit
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shiftthis
and who are you ?
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shiftthis
I was never told or taught to put my trust in VP. Those of us in the fellowships I attended were taught to put our trust in GOD. Look to GOD for answers, worship GOD, put GOD first etc. VP was the name of the teacher and that was all. VP's name rarely came up when he was alive. Thats the way it was in the fellowships I attended. One thing is for sure and that is the Word works when applied ans believed. Anyone including me can prove it doesnt word by not believing it but when I have believed it my prayers have gotten answered. My focus has always been on GOD and not the ministry. The ministry is made of people like us that research the Bible and teach it.
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shiftthis
you havent a clue dude. At least I have a wonderful life and all my prayers get answered. At least I make GOD my focus instead of focusing on crap that some people in the ministry did. So if you claim I have a waybrain thats fine with me cause I will just get more answers to prayer. For someone to say i am FOS just shows the mental illness you have and the deliverance you need. If you took all that energy and aimed it toward GOD you might just start having a wonderful life that you can share with others.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Shift, my, my, my!! Who are you to say that someone has a mental illness, and needs deliverance?? IMO, DWBH has a wonderful life, and he shares it with us here at the GSC. I don't know DWBH personally, nor do I know all that God has done for him, but I know that he was a GREAT MOG. DWBH was one of the few people who could really, really teach, and reach people with The Word; I know because I was one of them. You may, or may not like DWBH, but please don't call him mentally ill. He is many things, but mentally is not one of them.
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shiftthis
did you read the p.s. that he wrote about me ? he doesnt know me ,i never met him, yet he writes this about me > P.S.....BTW, shiftthis is FOS. If he’s still stuck on waybrain stupid the best thing you can do is ignore the identity confused adolescent stuck in the 1980s of TWIt idiocy and hypocrisy. LOL! < Thats what he wrote about me. A wonderful MOG does not make statements like that about people he never met. As for as i am concerned he is an arrogant jerk for saying i am full of sheet and stuck on waybrain stupid and the rest of what he said. He comes across as a major A to put it nicely and yes he needs mental help and he needs to get that from GOD.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Shift, yes I read what he said about you. All of us need help from God-everyday. I think you may be jealous that DWBH is smarter than you, and had a higher position than you in TWI.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi shift this.
thanks for all your pithy posts! You have faithfully proven everything I said about you in the “p.s.” part of a post to someone else. You ARE FOS, and, you are quite obviously still quite stuck in TWIt cult idiocy. My, my! After all these years YOU choose to remain an ignorant, arrogant, stuck-on-stoopeed Wayfer! Congratulations Pilgrim. Your search has ended. You are now officially a know-that-you-know-that-you-know-it-all moron just like dictor paul and the rest of the lying, thieving, weasels you moron wayfers worship and follow instead of the Lord Jesus Christ. Get a life you TWIt pimp. It’s still not too late for you to “get right with God”, and give up the lifestyle of anti-Christ wierwille worshippers proving you have no functional grey matter of your own.
God bless, you’re the best! See ya at the Rock! Bwaaaahahahaha!
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, my, my, my! LMAO!!
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shiftthis
You are one of the troublemakers that was kicked out and good riddance. You call me names and put me down and you never met me. how many other people did you do that to when you were going to a wi fellowship ? you are the type that are not welcome at any fellowship and i wouldnt hire you on my construction crew either. Look in the mirror and you see who one of the troublemakers are. IF you would keep your mouth shut and learn to love yourself and treat others with the love of GOD you will get rid of the spirits hanging around you and you will see how wonderful life can be.
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