Severing Family/Church Ties and ....The Destruction of Self

[skyrider]

In the process of unraveling the cult's indoctrination in my life........I hold the belief that pfal had a subterfuge agenda.

The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.  Wierwille used preemptive strikes against church, family and community to sever the ties to one's support system.....and then, taught us that we needed to rebuild our support systems based on his teachings and pseudo-Christian cult family.  After sitting thru pfal, wierwille closes the last session with stern admonition to "stand on this word".......whether no one believes it.  And further, take this material and....."if you'll put away all of your other reading material for the next three months and *study this word,* you won't know yourself."

After months of anticipation to take pfal......and the deep truths and secrets to the universe.....we were ushered into this class with hyper-sensitive expectations.  It was promoted as the greatest secret in the world today.  And, by the end of the class.......you will KNOW it, too.

Young, naïve and searching for belonging, how could you NOT take this class?  If you walked thru this door, then you'll be a part of it, too.  And, if you don't take the class.....you will be shunned or badgered until you drop your objections and sit thru it.  After all, everyone else seemed so excited about it.

Years ago, I read this article...........The Destruction of Self

But now, I understand more fully that all of this started with pfal........not the Defeating the Adversary class.

The Word of God truly is a Sword  ----  it was used in pfal to sever ties of family, friends, church and community.  Wierwille had spent 10 years traveling up and down the highways trying to build a faithful following who would tithe weekly and become workers in building his ministry.  Letter after letter, even as early as 1959..... wierwille pressed his deep desire for "co-laborers" and "fellow-workers."

By 1967, at the filming of pfal.......wierwille was ready to cross the line into *indoctrination.*   He gave lip-service to the Body of Christ, but did everything to subvert each one's uniqueness as a member in particular.......as he rushed onward to plant The Way Tree.  LOL.  And, all of that "Christ-in-you" evolved into groupthink and follow your cult leadership.  It took years and years of discarding individual identity and sovereignty.......to get to the point of "destruction of self."

 

 

 

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, skyrider said:

In the process of unraveling the cult's indoctrination in my life........I hold the belief that pfal had a subterfuge agenda.

The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.  Wierwille used preemptive strikes against church, family and community to sever the ties to one's support system.....and then, taught us that we needed to rebuild our support systems based on his teachings and pseudo-Christian cult family.  After sitting thru pfal, wierwille closes the last session with stern admonition to "stand on this word".......whether no one believes it.  And further, take this material and....."if you'll put away all of your other reading material for the next three months and *study this word,* you won't know yourself."...(SNIP)…

Years ago, I read this article...........The Destruction of Self

But now, I understand more fully that all of this started with pfal........not the Defeating the Adversary class....(SNIP)

And, all of that "Christ-in-you" evolved into groupthink and follow your cult leadership.  It took years and years of discarding individual identity and sovereignty.......to get to the point of "destruction of self."

 

Skyrider, you had an interesting point “The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.”

That got me thinking about a lot of the benefits the PFAL class claimed to provide actually had the opposite effect - to your detriment - a few of the supposed “benefits” pertinent to your thread:

Enables you to separate truth from error:

Oh yeah fat chance of that happening...You get sucked into a cult mindset - not seeing the bad tree / false prophet / wolf of Matthew 7 - that you are now involved with ! You are like a blind person working as a teller - handling money at a bank (if the bank was a fellowship - and the accepted currency is disinformation, twisted interpretations of scripture, lies, polarizing ideas,  deception, manipulation or anything else that has real value to TWI and serves their warped agenda ) - you have no idea if the currency you are handling is counterfeit or not - unless of course, the bank manager (wierwille, TWI, your local leadership) tell you it's counterfeit or not; and just as an fyi: the more counterfeit money you exchange or distribute to your customers - the more perks and praise you'll receive from leadership; you choose a counterfeit church over the local church that may have been a lot more transparent and served you better; the real “benefit” of the class is in favor of TWI - that you will stay true to their indoctrination and not err from what you’ve been “taught”.

 

Develops more harmony in the home: as wierwille said in the class “when it comes to the word - I have no friends”; thus the litmus test for who you can associate with is whether or not they are receptive to your "stand" on what’s taught in PFAL; it doesn’t matter if it’s your spouse, your kids, your parents, or any relatives or friends - it’s either “the word’s way” (which is what wierwille taught as the true interpretation of the scriptures and you have now adopted as your way) or the highway...so either you split or they do - details of how to execute the split are sometimes worked out on the fly through a maelstrom of emotions, any dysfunctional family dynamics , the pressures of the hive-mind (TWI group-think), etc.

 

Makes life meaningful: (Skyrider thanks for posting link on "the Destruction of Self" - I read that again - great stuff!) as you continue walking in “the greatness” of PFAL , your outlook and decision-making process get recalibrated to the TWI-mindset - what’s important to you now is what wierwille or leadership said is important; all your original hopes and dreams become morphed or hijacked  into what’s really best for you and the ministry. Your purpose now is to move “the word”; as a matter of fact the only worthwhile endeavor is to move “the word” (aka - "get more people to take PFAL").

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by T-Bone
Bullhorn - what a steer uses to call home...I'm here all week folks or until the cows come home...whichever comes first

[skyrider]

3 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Skyrider, you had an interesting point “The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.”

.....snip

 

T-Bone........when I read this article years ago, I found it to have great value.

BUT......it doesn't go far enough in helping one to find his/her way out of wierwille's cult.  Imo, the Defeating the Adversary class took us into another chamber, a deeper chamber of captivity.....but we already were inside the cult compound.

When locked inside a prison cell one must NOT ONLY get out of the prison cell, but out of the PRISON COMPOUND........standing outside looking back at it.  Splinter groups might help you get out of that "prison cell"...... but NOT outside "Folsom State Prison."

Folsom Prison Blues Lyrics  (last stanza)

Well if they freed me from this prison
If that railroad train was mine
I bet I'd move it on a little farther down the line
Far from Folsom prison, that's where I want to stay
And I'd let that lonesome whistle blow my blues away

[skyrider]

In other words..........this is what all the splinter groups are doing. 

They point to Martindale/Rivenbark saying they were (are) the reason why things went bad!   NOPE........

........Wierwille was the warden of this prison.

[chockfull]

So for my own take on the class card benefits - LOL:

Enables you to separate truth from error - primarily by redefining Wierwillian error as truth.  

Develops more harmony in the home - and if you don't like that home you can always mark and avoid everyone in it and start your own gender non-specific home.

 

Makes life meaningful - the life of a hamster on a wheel - it has great meaning.  Always something to do, always somewhere to go.  This class, that class, outreach, programs.  You just have to ignore the fact that the wheel drives motion for revenue for a cult.  And you never go anywhere, always the same place, same wheel.  Life is a perpetual motion wheel of meaning.

[skyrider]

Cult leaders NEVER want to relinquish their power over others. 

• Wierwille retired shortly before an eye removal and liver cancer.....but still lashed out at trustees for being "shelved."
• Martindale found himself battling twi's lawyers to stay in office.....and tried to be, at least, the Research Department Coordinator. [Ousted]
• Rosalie F. Shumate assigned lapboy as president......and then, she STAYED as the vice president and Chairman of the Board.

Next March 2019.......Rosalie will be 80 years old. 

Twi no longer runs the advanced class each year, because there are NOT enough students to warrant it.  Another 150-180 corps grads have exited their ranks in the last ten years.... much of it because of the debt-policies and double-standard hypocrisy.  The corps in-residence  program is abysmal.  The Sunday teachings are a snoozefest.

Some of those staffers took pfal some 40 years ago.......and look where they are today?  LOL

So, how well did those green card BENEFITS work out? 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

22 hours ago, skyrider said:

In the process of unraveling the cult's indoctrination in my life........I hold the belief that pfal had a subterfuge agenda.

The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.  Wierwille used preemptive strikes against church, family and community to sever the ties to one's support system.....and then, taught us that we needed to rebuild our support systems based on his teachings and pseudo-Christian cult family.  After sitting thru pfal, wierwille closes the last session with stern admonition to "stand on this word".......whether no one believes it.  And further, take this material and....."if you'll put away all of your other reading material for the next three months and *study this word,* you won't know yourself."

After months of anticipation to take pfal......and the deep truths and secrets to the universe.....we were ushered into this class with hyper-sensitive expectations.  It was promoted as the greatest secret in the world today.  And, by the end of the class.......you will KNOW it, too.

Young, naïve and searching for belonging, how could you NOT take this class?  If you walked thru this door, then you'll be a part of it, too.  And, if you don't take the class.....you will be shunned or badgered until you drop your objections and sit thru it.  After all, everyone else seemed so excited about it.

Years ago, I read this article...........The Destruction of Self

But now, I understand more fully that all of this started with pfal........not the Defeating the Adversary class.

The Word of God truly is a Sword  ----  it was used in pfal to sever ties of family, friends, church and community.  Wierwille had spent 10 years traveling up and down the highways trying to build a faithful following who would tithe weekly and become workers in building his ministry.  Letter after letter, even as early as 1959..... wierwille pressed his deep desire for "co-laborers" and "fellow-workers."

By 1967, at the filming of pfal.......wierwille was ready to cross the line into *indoctrination.*   He gave lip-service to the Body of Christ, but did everything to subvert each one's uniqueness as a member in particular.......as he rushed onward to plant The Way Tree.  LOL.  And, all of that "Christ-in-you" evolved into groupthink and follow your cult leadership.  It took years and years of discarding individual identity and sovereignty.......to get to the point of "destruction of self."

 

 

 

Sky, you are so right; expectations for the PFAL class did run high; perhaps that is why the class was such a huge disappointment to me.  I expected to be able to read, and understand the Bible on my own, and it never happened. One day I realized that the Bible was a very complex book, and I would probably never understand it.  That's the day, I finally understood that much of what we were taught in the class, was Dung.

 

 

[At A Loss]

I have read a lot of the posts from past members to try and get a better understanding of the Way and its hold on people.  I have really no personal experience with the Way other than the fallout of my son marrying a lovely girl whose parents were limb leaders in CA years ago.  These limb leader parents destroyed their short marriage in no time flat.  They moved their daughter back under their roof 2100 miles away from the life they were building as a family here.  To complicate it even more they have their daughter completely cutting my son and his entire family off from the little boy that they had together.  The baby was one day old when the mother moved into the studio apartment with them and did not allow them to spend a SINGLE day together without her being in charge for the first month the baby was born.  I thought it was CRAZY and didn't understand it at all.  I kind of get it now..... indoctrination everyday, alienation, and constantly telling her she could not rasie a baby without them.  At this point we get to see our grandson for one week every quarter of the year.  We have to do all the traveling for the first 2 years.  Attorney's fees in 2 states, plane fare, rental cars and housing..... it has been honestly a nightmare.  If it weren't bad enough the parents sit and supervise the daughter's facetime calls she is court ordered to allow, so my son can see and talk to his little boy.  They are the most manipulative people I have ever encountered and I apologize for ranting! It is heart breaking to see what they have done and continue to do to completely alienate us from him.  They worked their daughter over pretty good!  She is lifeless and bitter, something I never saw in the 3 years she was dating my son and living clear across the U.S. away from her leader parents.  Any advise? We just keep hoping that if we keep chipping away at visitation that we will build a bond so he knows us but it feels pretty defeating most days.  The oldest son has never been able to get away, he has been at home for over 30+ years, the other daughter lives within 10 minutes of them.  They have a hold like VPW, as well they would after being limb leaders for years.

[chockfull]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:52 PM, At A Loss said:

I have read a lot of the posts from past members to try and get a better understanding of the Way and its hold on people.  I have really no personal experience with the Way other than the fallout of my son marrying a lovely girl whose parents were limb leaders in CA years ago.  These limb leader parents destroyed their short marriage in no time flat.  They moved their daughter back under their roof 2100 miles away from the life they were building as a family here.  To complicate it even more they have their daughter completely cutting my son and his entire family off from the little boy that they had together.  The baby was one day old when the mother moved into the studio apartment with them and did not allow them to spend a SINGLE day together without her being in charge for the first month the baby was born.  I thought it was CRAZY and didn't understand it at all.  I kind of get it now..... indoctrination everyday, alienation, and constantly telling her she could not rasie a baby without them.  At this point we get to see our grandson for one week every quarter of the year.  We have to do all the traveling for the first 2 years.  Attorney's fees in 2 states, plane fare, rental cars and housing..... it has been honestly a nightmare.  If it weren't bad enough the parents sit and supervise the daughter's facetime calls she is court ordered to allow, so my son can see and talk to his little boy.  They are the most manipulative people I have ever encountered and I apologize for ranting! It is heart breaking to see what they have done and continue to do to completely alienate us from him.  They worked their daughter over pretty good!  She is lifeless and bitter, something I never saw in the 3 years she was dating my son and living clear across the U.S. away from her leader parents.  Any advise? We just keep hoping that if we keep chipping away at visitation that we will build a bond so he knows us but it feels pretty defeating most days.  The oldest son has never been able to get away, he has been at home for over 30+ years, the other daughter lives within 10 minutes of them.  They have a hold like VPW, as well they would after being limb leaders for years.

Sad to hear, At A Loss.  

When you look at the lives of those who thought they were so high spiritually, and see the destruction, you absolutely see where they sold their souls over the years.  Here you see ordained Way ministry leaders very clearly violating scriptures in Genesis 2:24 and Ephesians 5:31-33 interfering in children's lives and causing deep destruction across multiple generations.  Their conscience is so seared they can't see the difference between their own behavior and the Amish next door, or any other group preventing marriage due to improper religion of the person their daughter chose.  They violate scripture without a second thought.  They have no remorse.   That title means they sold their soul to an organization not to God.  And if that man didn't have the intestinal fortitude to keep his wife from doing that and moving in like she did I don't know how he looks at himself in the mirror.  Actually yes I do.  With a seared conscience.

How pathetic!!!

It sounds like your son was caught in some weird version of the movie "The Wicker Man" from 2006.  Thankfully unlike the end of that movie he didn't go up in flames!  Hopefully over time things will smooth out and he will find a way forward for new growth in his life.  I wouldn't hold my breath on those @$$holes having a change of heart anytime soon though.  I really hope I don't know them because the likelihood is that I did know them years ago.  

When you look at the Way and its history, what you see is interference in marriages pretty much across the board.  Where people try to control others, they control their marriages.  Whatever they say with their mouth, their actions say the real story and what is in their hearts.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

On 8/13/2018 at 4:52 PM, At A Loss said:

I have read a lot of the posts from past members to try and get a better understanding of the Way and its hold on people.  I have really no personal experience with the Way other than the fallout of my son marrying a lovely girl whose parents were limb leaders in CA years ago.  These limb leader parents destroyed their short marriage in no time flat.  They moved their daughter back under their roof 2100 miles away from the life they were building as a family here.  To complicate it even more they have their daughter completely cutting my son and his entire family off from the little boy that they had together.  The baby was one day old when the mother moved into the studio apartment with them and did not allow them to spend a SINGLE day together without her being in charge for the first month the baby was born.  I thought it was CRAZY and didn't understand it at all.  I kind of get it now..... indoctrination everyday, alienation, and constantly telling her she could not rasie a baby without them.  At this point we get to see our grandson for one week every quarter of the year.  We have to do all the traveling for the first 2 years.  Attorney's fees in 2 states, plane fare, rental cars and housing..... it has been honestly a nightmare.  If it weren't bad enough the parents sit and supervise the daughter's facetime calls she is court ordered to allow, so my son can see and talk to his little boy.  They are the most manipulative people I have ever encountered and I apologize for ranting! It is heart breaking to see what they have done and continue to do to completely alienate us from him.  They worked their daughter over pretty good!  She is lifeless and bitter, something I never saw in the 3 years she was dating my son and living clear across the U.S. away from her leader parents.  Any advise? We just keep hoping that if we keep chipping away at visitation that we will build a bond so he knows us but it feels pretty defeating most days.  The oldest son has never been able to get away, he has been at home for over 30+ years, the other daughter lives within 10 minutes of them.  They have a hold like VPW, as well they would after being limb leaders for years.

What are their names, especially their last name or family name? Anyone that knows them should try to get them to change and be more Christ like with God's Love. Is your son a believer in Jesus Christ? The limb leader family should obviously put on the mind of Christ instead of the mind of bias in their religious beliefs. We need to all improve.  As a former Wayfer, here is a web site showing my beliefs now. 

http://christian-universalism.info/

[shiftthis]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:52 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Sky, you are so right; expectations for the PFAL class did run high; perhaps that is why the class was such a huge disappointment to me.  I expected to be able to read, and understand the Bible on my own, and it never happened. One day I realized that the Bible was a very complex book, and I would probably never understand it.  That's the day, I finally understood that much of what we were taught in the class, was Dung.

 

 

well the stuff i learned in pfal has gone beyond my expectations. GOD has been working overtime in my life. I "decided" to go for broke and believe the scripture in the Bible. I started getting results. I know many people that took the class and doubted what the scriptures said and didnt reap the results. Its the scriptures that we are to believe. the class was just a way to show us things in the Bible. I grew up roman catholic and went to catholic schools and sunday schools. we did not study the Bible in school. When I went to sunday school all we ever did was read a verse and go around the room and get every ones opinion of what the verse means. It all comes back to no private interpretation and believing equals receiving. Forget the class and just read the scriptures and expect GOD to backup what he says. I also tithed 10% plus a few cents when I was working. I am retired now. If you say what you were taught was dung then you will never see GOD work in your life. IF you decide to believe what GOD says he will do for you then you will see reap the results. When I have doubted I dont reap the results but when I have believed GOD I reap the results.  I still have problems understanding parts of the Bible so I concentrate on the parts I understand. I am thankful for pfal.  I dont go to fellowship very often and I know I would be able to understand the Bible better if I did. At least I am not obligated to like the catholic church demanded me and my go to there church.

Edited August 16, 2018 by shiftthis

[shiftthis]

On 8/9/2018 at 9:27 AM, skyrider said:

In the process of unraveling the cult's indoctrination in my life........I hold the belief that pfal had a subterfuge agenda.

The pfal class held the keys to the doors alright......and once locked inside the cult, it was hard to find your way out.  Wierwille used preemptive strikes against church, family and community to sever the ties to one's support system.....and then, taught us that we needed to rebuild our support systems based on his teachings and pseudo-Christian cult family.  After sitting thru pfal, wierwille closes the last session with stern admonition to "stand on this word".......whether no one believes it.  And further, take this material and....."if you'll put away all of your other reading material for the next three months and *study this word,* you won't know yourself."

After months of anticipation to take pfal......and the deep truths and secrets to the universe.....we were ushered into this class with hyper-sensitive expectations.  It was promoted as the greatest secret in the world today.  And, by the end of the class.......you will KNOW it, too.

Young, naïve and searching for belonging, how could you NOT take this class?  If you walked thru this door, then you'll be a part of it, too.  And, if you don't take the class.....you will be shunned or badgered until you drop your objections and sit thru it.  After all, everyone else seemed so excited about it.

Years ago, I read this article...........The Destruction of Self

But now, I understand more fully that all of this started with pfal........not the Defeating the Adversary class.

The Word of God truly is a Sword  ----  it was used in pfal to sever ties of family, friends, church and community.  Wierwille had spent 10 years traveling up and down the highways trying to build a faithful following who would tithe weekly and become workers in building his ministry.  Letter after letter, even as early as 1959..... wierwille pressed his deep desire for "co-laborers" and "fellow-workers."

By 1967, at the filming of pfal.......wierwille was ready to cross the line into *indoctrination.*   He gave lip-service to the Body of Christ, but did everything to subvert each one's uniqueness as a member in particular.......as he rushed onward to plant The Way Tree.  LOL.  And, all of that "Christ-in-you" evolved into groupthink and follow your cult leadership.  It took years and years of discarding individual identity and sovereignty.......to get to the point of "destruction of self."

 

 

 

anybody could leave at anytime. i have seen many come and go. a few of my friends and my brother came a  short time and lost interest. i was gone a few years once.

Edited August 16, 2018 by shiftthis

[shiftthis]

On 8/13/2018 at 4:52 PM, At A Loss said:

I have read a lot of the posts from past members to try and get a better understanding of the Way and its hold on people.  I have really no personal experience with the Way other than the fallout of my son marrying a lovely girl whose parents were limb leaders in CA years ago.  These limb leader parents destroyed their short marriage in no time flat.  They moved their daughter back under their roof 2100 miles away from the life they were building as a family here.  To complicate it even more they have their daughter completely cutting my son and his entire family off from the little boy that they had together.  The baby was one day old when the mother moved into the studio apartment with them and did not allow them to spend a SINGLE day together without her being in charge for the first month the baby was born.  I thought it was CRAZY and didn't understand it at all.  I kind of get it now..... indoctrination everyday, alienation, and constantly telling her she could not rasie a baby without them.  At this point we get to see our grandson for one week every quarter of the year.  We have to do all the traveling for the first 2 years.  Attorney's fees in 2 states, plane fare, rental cars and housing..... it has been honestly a nightmare.  If it weren't bad enough the parents sit and supervise the daughter's facetime calls she is court ordered to allow, so my son can see and talk to his little boy.  They are the most manipulative people I have ever encountered and I apologize for ranting! It is heart breaking to see what they have done and continue to do to completely alienate us from him.  They worked their daughter over pretty good!  She is lifeless and bitter, something I never saw in the 3 years she was dating my son and living clear across the U.S. away from her leader parents.  Any advise? We just keep hoping that if we keep chipping away at visitation that we will build a bond so he knows us but it feels pretty defeating most days.  The oldest son has never been able to get away, he has been at home for over 30+ years, the other daughter lives within 10 minutes of them.  They have a hold like VPW, as well they would after being limb leaders for years.

i have been in california since the mid 1980's. I have personally known all the limb coordinators during that time. WHO was the limb coordinator you are referring to ? i have never heard of or seen the things you accuse the way of and i have been next to leadership many times until the past 2 years. I have never met anyone or any leader here that does what you say. If Weirwille  has such a hold on people all those that took the class would still be around. I was gone for a few years once. Over last 2 years I have to get off my butt and go to fellowship which means they dont have a hold on me. I know there were some false teachers that were around but all church groups have those and the catholic church has child rapist.

Edited August 16, 2018 by shiftthis

[Grace Valerie Claire]

27 minutes ago, shiftthis said:

well the stuff i learned in pfal has gone beyond my expectations. GOD has been working overtime in my life. I "decided" to go for broke and believe the scripture in the Bible. I started getting results. I know many people that took the class and doubted what the scriptures said and didnt reap the results. Its the scriptures that we are to believe. the class was just a way to show us things in the Bible. I grew up roman catholic and went to catholic schools and sunday schools. we did not study the Bible in school. When I went to sunday school all we ever did was read a verse and go around the room and get every ones opinion of what the verse means. It all comes back to no private interpretation and believing equals receiving. Forget the class and just read the scriptures and expect GOD to backup what he says. I also tithed 10% plus a few cents when I was working. I am retired now. If you say what you were taught was dung then you will never see GOD work in your life. IF you decide to believe what GOD says he will do for you then you will see reap the results. When I have doubted I dont reap the results but when I have believed GOD I reap the results.  I still have problems understanding parts of the Bible so I concentrate on the parts I understand. I am thankful for pfal.  I dont go to fellowship very often and I know I would be able to understand the Bible better if I did. At least I am not obligated to like the catholic church demanded me and my go to there church.

Shift, you believed God, not the S--t you were taught in the PFAL class.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

29 minutes ago, shiftthis said:

anybody could leave at anytime. i have seen many come and go. a few of my friends and my brother came a  short time and lost interest. i was gone a few years once.

Shift, many people were stuck in TWI for years; they didn't have the resources to leave.  If you were married, and/or had kids, often you had to rent a truck to move your stuff. Those trucks cost money, and many people didn't have the money to rent one.  Also, many people who wanted to leave were kids; if you were underage, you had to remain with your parents.  For some of us it was easy to leave; for others it wasn't.  

.

[At A Loss]

9 hours ago, Mark Sanguinetti said:

What are their names, especially their last name or family name? Anyone that knows them should try to get them to change and be more Christ like with God's Love. Is your son a believer in Jesus Christ? The limb leader family should obviously put on the mind of Christ instead of the mind of bias in their religious beliefs. We need to all improve.  As a former Wayfer, here is a web site showing my beliefs now. 

http://christian-universalism.info/

Thank you for responding!  I so wish they would take a step back and really look at their views.  Unfortunately, the Way was brought up in the court hearings and they are deadfast in their belief that they are not controlling and they are better people than most.  They have established themselves in their community, he is a high school teacher, and she worked in a bank for years.   I am amazed at the parallels in their lives and the lives of those whose books I have read.  She was a singer and traveled around with the group and he followed her, eventually to complete the corp and get married in a mass wedding at the compound.  They were limb leaders in CA, both Stockton and Oakdale, where he was a window washer and recruiter.  Greg and Christine Lewis are my son's ex in-laws.  Through all of this horrible ordeal, my son has not said one negative thing about his wife.  He loved her beyond words and he will fight forever to have a bond with his boy, as will this entire huge family over 2000 miles away.  Honestly, no one has ever said they are bad poeple, what they are doing to sever the bond between father and son is however, is the most ungodly thing I have witnessed. 

[Mark Sanguinetti]

3 hours ago, At A Loss said:

Thank you for responding!  I so wish they would take a step back and really look at their views.  Unfortunately, the Way was brought up in the court hearings and they are deadfast in their belief that they are not controlling and they are better people than most.  They have established themselves in their community, he is a high school teacher, and she worked in a bank for years.   I am amazed at the parallels in their lives and the lives of those whose books I have read.  She was a singer and traveled around with the group and he followed her, eventually to complete the corp and get married in a mass wedding at the compound.  They were limb leaders in CA, both Stockton and Oakdale, where he was a window washer and recruiter.  Greg and Christine Lewis are my son's ex in-laws.  Through all of this horrible ordeal, my son has not said one negative thing about his wife.  He loved her beyond words and he will fight forever to have a bond with his boy, as will this entire huge family over 2000 miles away.  Honestly, no one has ever said they are bad poeple, what they are doing to sever the bond between father and son is however, is the most ungodly thing I have witnessed. 

If the Way limb leaders are followers of Jesus Christ then they should also follow these scriptures. If they do not follow these scriptures then in practical application regarding marriage they are unbelievers. Hopefully as unbelievers they at least know how to wag their tails and not bark only. Friendly loving dogs know how to wag their tails. They should at least learn from dogs. 

1 Corinthians 7:10-16

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 

15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? 
NIV
 

[shiftthis]

19 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Shift, many people were stuck in TWI for years; they didn't have the resources to leave.  If you were married, and/or had kids, often you had to rent a truck to move your stuff. Those trucks cost money, and many people didn't have the money to rent one.  Also, many people who wanted to leave were kids; if you were underage, you had to remain with your parents.  For some of us it was easy to leave; for others it wasn't.  

.

are referring to in residence way corps ?

[shiftthis]

19 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Shift, you believed God, not the S--t you were taught in the PFAL class.

Yes I believe GOD and thats what we do to get answers and results.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

 

 

17 minutes ago, shiftthis said:

are referring to in residence way corps ?

Shift, I am referring to people in, and out of the Corps.  Many people were stuck in in Way World, and lacked the resources to leave.  Sky, and DWBH have discussed in great detail, how hard it was to leave TWI, with their families.  I had no idea, how hard it was for some people with families to leave.  Perhaps it wasn't hard for you to leave; it was quite easy for me to leave.  I am single, and Childfree.  I left Way World in May of 1988, because Uncle Sam sent me to Italy, and thus I was able to leave TWI behind.  However, others like Sky, and DWBH, had families to think about, and support. They had responsiblies to deal with, that I didn't. I give people like Sky, and DWBH a lot of credit; they stayed with TWI longer than I did, because of their family responsibilities.

 

 

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

42 minutes ago, shiftthis said:

Yes I believe GOD and thats what we do to get answers and results.

Shift, sometimes God works through the help of others.  

[shiftthis]

30 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Shift, sometimes God works through the help of others.  

Yep !

Edited August 17, 2018 by shiftthis

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 minute ago, shiftthis said:

Yep !

Shift, agreed!

[Taxidev]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:52 PM, At A Loss said:

They moved their daughter back under their roof 2100 miles away from the life they were building as a family here.

I don't know what bible they are using to justify this, but mine says this:
"Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Nowhere in that verse does it say "unless they aren't part of the way ministry".  They have broken apart a "one flesh" union where they had no authority to do that.  If that's not evil I don't know what is.

[At A Loss]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, Taxidev said:

I don't know what bible they are using to justify this, but mine says this:
"Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Nowhere in that verse does it say "unless they aren't part of the way ministry".  They have broken apart a "one flesh" union where they had no authority to do that.  If that's not evil I don't know what is.

It is disheartening to be so far away and know that we are being marked and avoided by a family that is still so delusional about VPW.  Frankly, it scares me that they are so into it after decades.  They keep it pretty well under wraps. Why? because at some level they have to know it is not sane.  They even stopped calling the little guy by his name, which is my son's name.  They call him by his middle name (the grandfather's name).  They do not want him to even hear his dad's name - Sadly, there are dads out there that do not want anything to do with their kids and my grandson has an entire extended family that just wants the oppotunity to be a part of his life.  I pray that one day he knows the truth.