The point you are making is very interesting, so much so that I had to look this up in my bible. And here is what I found:
Gal_6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Eph_2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
So, according to Paul, there certainly is a household of God. However, in the context of the verses, and looking at the Greek for faith and God, there isn't any limitation on where that household actually is. In other words, in the bible there is no stipulation as to actions one would be taking, or location, or manner of fellowship, or obedience to anyone other than God.
So, while I completely agree with the basic point you made, I absolutely disagree with this quoted statement.
OK, I will rephrase. I feel you got the intent, but apparently due to a couple of scriptures having similar phrases, the accuracy is missed. I will take that as I need to explain it better.
THERE IS NO HOUSEHOLD OF GOD DISTINCT FROM THE BODY OF CHRIST.
Or, if you understand the statement with a bit of original intent there is no "household of God" as taught by the Way International. This meaning that ordinary Christians are "in the family of God", but those in the Way are "in the household of God"..
THERE IS NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FAMILY OF GOD AND THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD.
As applied to the verses in Gal and Eph above, both references are talking about the overall group of Christians in the world that one might encounter as a classification separate than "all men". Those verses carry an instruction to value highly all those belonging to Christ, not a distinct group under authority of the Way, or the R&R railroad folks, or whatever church it is you might be attending.
Paul's instruction is not saying to Christian believers "do good unto all, but single out those in your church only to be especially good unto" or saying that the "fellowcitizens with the saints" is a group that includes only those of your particular denomination. Definitely not those who "took the class" or some such nonsense.
For Way people
THERE IS NO HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. THERE IS ONLY A FAMILY OF GOD WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST ON EARTH TODAY.
What damage does this view on the household of God separate from the family of God do? It provides an environment where human evil can breed unchecked. What it leads to is the distinction in every follower's mind of some form of elite group separate from the body of Christ, yet fulfilling all of the things the body of Christ is supposed to. This breeds a form of "spiritual elitism" which comes off as ego. It definitely involves the ego, and it is like a virus on a computer - it masks itself. The ego masks as altruism. "We're just trying to move the Word over the world". "We're just trying to help people".
They don't realize that due to this false doctrine they systematically violate scripture by continually judging their brother in Christ as somewhat less than they and their group are.
I think "shipwrecked" is a perfect word to describe this state. Like on "Gilligan's Island" the crew and passengers set sail on a 3 hour tour. They become marooned on an island separated off from society and create their own little socio-political-economic system on an island that becomes its own identity.
What Way followers and former Way followers do not realize is they can rescue themselves from their own Gilligan's island by just rejecting false doctrine and interacting with other Christians not of the same background from the Way. That's not a "cure-all" or anything, just logically putting yourself into the path of others and viewing them as scripture tells you to.
Would it be similar to the use of term "earthly family". Because, nobody out there would understand what you meant if you said "biological family".
Yes, the ol' us vs them.. Distinctions and separations. Not that there isn't a "set apart" body of Christ.. But then, that's God's separation not man(woman) made and since we know not the heart of humans, it's outside us.
Didn't someone do a topic once on defining cults.. I kind of recall that "us vs them" doctrine being a primary mover.. Even non-Christians would agree we all came from the same origin, share the same, and ought to be here to help one another..
and anything 'earthly' was wrong.... in our thinking or environment....as I'm thinking about in the context of wayspeak and conditioning, 'earthly family' is a total insult and dismissal of our families, parents, siblings.
and anything 'earthly' was wrong.... in our thinking or environment....as I'm thinking about in the context of wayspeak and conditioning, 'earthly family' is a total insult and dismissal of our families, parents, siblings.
Boy, you got that right. I always hated that term, very disrespectful. Then they prop that garbage up using let the city bury its dead from the gospels. Oh and they even justify their divisive ways quoting Jesus that he came to bring a sword. Sick. Twisting scripture to suit their own ends.
Yes, the ol' us vs them.. Distinctions and separations. Not that there isn't a "set apart" body of Christ.. But then, that's God's separation not man(woman) made and since we know not the heart of humans, it's outside us.
Didn't someone do a topic once on defining cults.. I kind of recall that "us vs them" doctrine being a primary mover.. Even non-Christians would agree we all came from the same origin, share the same, and ought to be here to help one another..
Not just once. It's a recurring theme to identify the spiritual abuse of cults like TWI.
So thankful for the outstanding Christians that I have encountered in my church, the parent church, the local abbey (traditional main city church). and the very many people I've encountered through Christian organisations I'm involved with. There are so many ways to learn from each other (and preaching in church is only a small part of it) and so many ways to serve each other and the very much wider community.
I wouldn't want to pull any elitist cards over them; such tremendous people, I'd prefer to emulate their heart and commitment, not "lord it over them." Oddly, there are some that think that about me, too! (Now I know they must be lacking in role models!). Try checking out this verse in other translations:
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or conceit, but
in humility consider others as more important than yourselves.
and also this:
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in
honoring one another.
Sorry, I missed the elitist bit that shows that the "household" gets to be the superior part of the Body of Christ.
Anyway - how many "households" are there in a body?
My body, and doubtless yours, comprises blood, skin, bone, various soft tissues (and harder tissues), arranged as fingers, toes, lungs, etc. But my body, and doubtless yours, doesn't have any "households." It's just ... a body.
So thankful for the outstanding Christians that I have encountered in my church, the parent church, the local abbey (traditional main city church). and the very many people I've encountered through Christian organisations I'm involved with.
You are very fortunate. I live in a very selfish part of the country, so finding true Christians that actually care about people is proving to be a challenge. In my area, they mostly seem to be pretend Christians - "(and preaching in church is only a small part of it)" - going through the show on Sundays. But I won't give up.
A while back, Louisiana had been devastated by a hurricane - Katrina, I think - and TWI did absolutely nothing. I remember thinking how odd it was that other Christian organizations, albeit larger, were contributing money, supplies, and people to aid in the rescue and rebuilding operations. Apparently, enough people voiced their disappointment and HQ sent a token to them, but only after being pressured. How sad that it took being pressured.
You are very fortunate. I live in a very selfish part of the country, so finding true Christians that actually care about people is proving to be a challenge. In my area, they mostly seem to be pretend Christians - "(and preaching in church is only a small part of it)" - going through the show on Sundays. But I won't give up.
A while back, Louisiana had been devastated by a hurricane - Katrina, I think - and TWI did absolutely nothing. I remember thinking how odd it was that other Christian organizations, albeit larger, were contributing money, supplies, and people to aid in the rescue and rebuilding operations. Apparently, enough people voiced their disappointment and HQ sent a token to them, but only after being pressured. How sad that it took being pressured.
Yes, it was Katrina. "Devastated" is a dramatic understatement.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Chockful's original post for this thread hit the nail squarely on the head and drove that nail home in one powerful swing of the hammer.
The elitism and pomposity that dogma generated in Wierwille's cult comes very close to actually being the root of all evil. But frankly, I believe it's not much of a logical leap to suggest that it was Vic's love of money and adulation that "inspired" that dogma.
You are very fortunate. I live in a very selfish part of the country, so finding true Christians that actually care about people is proving to be a challenge. In my area, they mostly seem to be pretend Christians - "(and preaching in church is only a small part of it)" - going through the show on Sundays. But I won't give up.
A while back, Louisiana had been devastated by a hurricane - Katrina, I think - and TWI did absolutely nothing. I remember thinking how odd it was that other Christian organizations, albeit larger, were contributing money, supplies, and people to aid in the rescue and rebuilding operations. Apparently, enough people voiced their disappointment and HQ sent a token to them, but only after being pressured. How sad that it took being pressured.
Humans have a tremendous capacity for not only evil but to actually care about one another and do good. You see splashes of it here and there. The way I find Christians that actually care about people is to show them I care about them unconditionally first.
If we can change ourselves we can change the world.
23 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
Would it be similar to the use of term "earthly family". Because, nobody out there would understand what you meant if you said "biological family".
*Cues Burning Bridges by Singing Ladies of the Remnant of Old Drapes*
Dude, totally. Even the term "earthly family" if you think about it smacks of tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
"I have to go make a phone call to my earthly family". It leads to so many questions:
Why? Were you abducted by aliens and they adopted you? Do they have shared custody?
Will you get sufficient reception for the call on your tinfoil hat or do you need to use a cell phone?
Do you think the alien spaceship commander will approve the long distance minutes for your call to earth?
So thankful for the outstanding Christians that I have encountered in my church, the parent church, the local abbey (traditional main city church). and the very many people I've encountered through Christian organisations I'm involved with. There are so many ways to learn from each other (and preaching in church is only a small part of it) and so many ways to serve each other and the very much wider community.
I wouldn't want to pull any elitist cards over them; such tremendous people, I'd prefer to emulate their heart and commitment, not "lord it over them." Oddly, there are some that think that about me, too! (Now I know they must be lacking in role models!). Try checking out this verse in other translations:
Sorry, I missed the elitist bit that shows that the "household" gets to be the superior part of the Body of Christ.
Twinky in my opinion your mindset and how you are carrying this out practically is living the intent of Paul's teaching on the one body. I prefer your mindset any day of the week over elitist anti-Christ crapola about the household.
This to me is leadership. What you are doing there in interacting and serving in your community is a healthy model for recovering cult followers:
Take off the tinfoil hat. Stop being elitist. Stop thinking you are "Gamaliel the elder" with the need for people sitting at your feet. Take your "twig" around to visit all the different churches in your community and see how you could partner with them or help them. They are already doing it with each other many of them.
Now the exact makeup of this in each area probably is going to look a little different. For example, I don't have the denominational reporting structures of parent churches and I go to a community church. But the element I live similar to Twinky is that I volunteer and serve others as a Christian through programs. I like Habitat for Humanity a lot lately. Our church partners with Damascus Road - https://damascusroadproject.org/ - ending sex trafficking. I like helping them too - financially, community support. Other Christians are involved, go to other churches, there is a comraderie, a common goal, a real genuine service to others and society different than the Jehovah's witness style door-to-door witnessing in the Way trying to convince people to come sit in your house and be under your spiritual authority.
Wierwille and all of the Way leadership would label the causes I am currently involved in and contributing to "designer causes". Uncle Harry would teach that he used to give to other causes, but now he gives everything to the Way.
I think they've got it exactly wrong. Being in a cult is the designer cause. It's the frivolous cause, the one that enslaves many yet produces nothing of value in a community except a bunch of egotistical idiots plotting how to accost people in supermarkets, at home, etc. to convince them to "take the class". You know, the one that was plagiarized originally from BG Leonard, re-worked with the same content in different outline order, and taught by whomever the cult hasn't fired to date.
Causes where Christians in Christ's body band together and positively influence communities and genuinely help others those are the genuine causes, those are Christ's work. Whether it is a meal for the homeless a home for the downtrodden or rescuing someone from being drugged up and pimped out all over the world. That's providing value, not ego.
The Way started out more towards its roots as we look into it with an ecumenical bent. At one point it was even named "The Way Ecumenical Bible Center" or some such similar phrase. I recall black and white videos and cars pulling up to the Biblical Research Center and bouffant hairdos and Victor Paul Wierwille teaching the Sunday Teaching Service, which later was transcribed by his secretary and became the PFAL class collaterals. Mal and Jan George with Jan with one of those bouffant do's or something.
But I think the problem old VP had was people wouldn't stick. They would say "nice class" and go back to their churches. There was the old "Spiritual 40 club" or something, some method for VP to pay travel expenses to bring in teachers that formed the bulk of who he either mimic'd in nice terms or plagiarized in realistic terms. Eventually over time VP found out that being the nice guy didn't make an impact. No, he needed more followers for planes, coaches, and motorcycles. More adulation, more money.
So the root to getting people to leave their churches was poisoning the well. Conspiracy theory that VP espoused and had a high level of interest in was a great resource to tap into to accomplish this. Focus on the Illuminati for a little while, and then pretty much you can connect conspiracy theories to the devil's work throughout all the major Christian denominations especially the Catholics modern Christianity's whipping boy. The Pope as well as denomination heads were part of the Illuminati. The Illuminati was really a new term VP invented called "seed of the serpent" extracted from some permutation of Genesis discussion of seed.
So that conspiracy theory he can introduce in the Advanced Class, where you have people out of their own element and not connected to questioning intelligence. He started teaching that seed stuff in the foundational though but they took it out because people would think they were that in his classes. But what was in is VP's subtle sleight-of-hand magic with scriptures, coming off as a spiritual authority in the area of Biblical research. The real research commandos of modern Christianity. However that was a Drambuie-infused Kool cigarette pipe dream. If you want to know the reality purchase a copy of penworks book Undertow. That details a firsthand account of an early Corps graduate on the research team and lays bare how VP did research.
The key though was all of the Bullinger plagiarized stuff, which he morphed into "Keys to How the Word interprets Itself". Then he could dissect up the gospels with a new interpretation making all previous obsolete and declaring himself as "the" Christian visionary of the time. And have detailed instructional dogma just like L. Ron Hubbard did in Scientology to force on the noob cult member.
It should have instead have been entitled "Keys to How the Word Was Removed From the Brain Cells Through a Magical False Prophet's Sleight of Hand"
The key though was all of the Bullinger plagiarized stuff, which he morphed into "Keys to How the Word interprets Itself". Then he could dissect up the gospels with a new interpretation making all previous obsolete and declaring himself as "the" Christian visionary of the time. And have detailed instructional dogma just like L. Ron Hubbard did in Scientology to force on the noob cult member.
It should have instead have been entitled "Keys to How the Word Was Removed From the Brain Cells Through a Magical False Prophet's Sleight of Hand"
This was written more than 300 years before Christ:
Surely, I said, knowledge is the food of the soul; and we must take care, my friend, that the Sophist does not deceive us when he praises what he sells, like the dealers wholesale or retail who sell the food of the body; for they praise indiscriminately all their goods, without knowing what are really beneficial or hurtful: neither do their customers know, with the exception of any trainer or physician who may happen to buy of them. In like manner those who carry about the wares of knowledge, and make the round of the cities, and sell or retail them to any customer who is in want of them, praise them all alike; though I should not wonder, O my friend, if many of them were really ignorant of their effect upon the soul; and their customers equally ignorant, unless he who buys of them happens to be a physician of the soul. If, therefore, you have understanding of what is good and evil you may safely buy knowledge of Protagoras or any one; but if not, then, O my friend, pause, and do not hazard your dearest interests at a game of chance. For there is far greater peril in buying knowledge than in buying meat and drink. … Plato
The Way started out more towards its roots as we look into it with an ecumenical bent. At one point it was even named "The Way Ecumenical Bible Center" or some such similar phrase. I recall black and white videos and cars pulling up to the Biblical Research Center and bouffant hairdos and Victor Paul Wierwille teaching the Sunday Teaching Service, which later was transcribed by his secretary and became the PFAL class collaterals. Mal and Jan George with Jan with one of those bouffant do's or something.
But I think the problem old VP had was people wouldn't stick. They would say "nice class" and go back to their churches. There was the old "Spiritual 40 club" or something, some method for VP to pay travel expenses to bring in teachers that formed the bulk of who he either mimic'd in nice terms or plagiarized in realistic terms. Eventually over time VP found out that being the nice guy didn't make an impact. No, he needed more followers for planes, coaches, and motorcycles. More adulation, more money.
Exactly................"people wouldn't stick." This is well documented in Mrs. W's book as she details a list in 1958, 1959 and 1960 of wierwille's pfal classes in various cities. When you consider the hundreds of people who sat thru his classes each year (1957-1967)........the question becomes, "What happened to all these people who, having heard these truths taught live by Dr. Wierwille (cough, cough), were supposed to commit their lives, effort and money toward word-over-the-world twi servitude?" Apparently, they didn't see -- 1) power or 2) abundant living.........as highlighted in its promotion.
So......when vpw films the class in 1967, what does he do? He adds and augments certain preemptive strikes against the denominational churches. Wierwille not only wants his new students to sit thru his series of classes, but to stick with him. He demonizes church elders and their motives.......to guilt and shame anyone who, having taken pfal, would even think of going back to their church. With each passing year, the rhetoric escalates.........until vpw and others were teaching that denominational church hierarchy have the seed of the serpent. Egads! The level of hyperbole and accusations was absurd. Then, once you attend the "advanced class".......you hear about the Illuminati, the Thirteenth Tribe, Marxist Minstrels, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Seed of the Serpent, etc......you're indoctrinated into the inner sanctum and servitude.
Add......a year or two of going WOW, or Corps Training and you become absorbed into the cult blob. Leaders over leaders over leaders......each following orders of next higher (or lower) unit. As a leaf on a mighty tree (LOL).....you give respect to the twig leader, branch, limb, and trunk leader. Seems like more and more.......you are getting closer and closer to the dirt. Then, work on staff AT THE ROOT.........now, you've gone underground. Wowsers!!!
It seems clear to me that wierwille took stock of all those pfal students LEAVING HIM IN THE 60s.............and struck out on a subterfuge agenda. What was this new hidden objective? To entrap new students into his organization by destroying their old support systems of family, religion and community........and erect a new system, a spiritual family that replaced their "earthly family." In essence: A Cult.
Wierwille needed to separate these young students from their support systems for longer and longer periods of time. Not just a three week class.......else, they go back to friends, family and work/education. Start summer camps......like the churches do, but for the purposes of building an *us versus them* mentality. Later, add WOW program......and then, the corps program. The youth are malleable and fall prey to indoctrination. The corps program was a multiplier in wierwille's climb to power: 1) Isolation of these "training centers" gave twi the availability, time and power over the individual without outside interference, and 2) Conformity to be obedient and follow "elder" corps established a pecking order that permeated the campus and fed the egos of even the most inept "elder" corps.
In the end..........it all came tumbling down. Lots of reasons, I suppose......but the youth grew up and real life responsibilities, decisions and motivations were staring them in the face. Who has the means to give "volunteer services" to twi for a lifetime? Why? Why is this opportunistic cult hoarding millions? Where is this power and abundance that wierwille taught? Everyone is selling soap........and it's all being washed down the drain. The whole damn thing was a scam........as wierwille took every opportunity to advance himself into the spotlight.
It's a scam...........and that's why "people don't stick."
It makes a lot of sense - that a compelling force behind wierwille’s ever tightening grip of control was a fear of folks not sticking around - like in the earlier days, when folks heard his spiel but went back to their churches.
Exactly................"people wouldn't stick." This is well documented in Mrs. W's book as she details a list in 1958, 1959 and 1960 of wierwille's pfal classes in various cities. When you consider the hundreds of people who sat thru his classes each year (1957-1967)........the question becomes, "What happened to all these people who, having heard these truths taught live by Dr. Wierwille (cough, cough), were supposed to commit their lives, effort and money toward word-over-the-world twi servitude?" Apparently, they didn't see -- 1) power or 2) abundant living.........as highlighted in its promotion.
So......when vpw films the class in 1967, what does he do? He adds and augments certain preemptive strikes against the denominational churches. Wierwille not only wants his new students to sit thru his series of classes, but to stick with him. He demonizes church elders and their motives.......to guilt and shame anyone who, having taken pfal, would even think of going back to their church. With each passing year, the rhetoric escalates.........until vpw and others were teaching that denominational church hierarchy have the seed of the serpent. Egads! The level of hyperbole and accusations was absurd. Then, once you attend the "advanced class".......you hear about the Illuminati, the Thirteenth Tribe, Marxist Minstrels, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Seed of the Serpent, etc......you're indoctrinated into the inner sanctum and servitude.
Add......a year or two of going WOW, or Corps Training and you become absorbed into the cult blob. Leaders over leaders over leaders......each following orders of next higher (or lower) unit. As a leaf on a mighty tree (LOL).....you give respect to the twig leader, branch, limb, and trunk leader. Seems like more and more.......you are getting closer and closer to the dirt. Then, work on staff AT THE ROOT.........now, you've gone underground. Wowsers!!!
It seems clear to me that wierwille took stock of all those pfal students LEAVING HIM IN THE 60s.............and struck out on a subterfuge agenda. What was this new hidden objective? To entrap new students into his organization by destroying their old support systems of family, religion and community........and erect a new system, a spiritual family that replaced their "earthly family." In essence: A Cult.
Wierwille needed to separate these young students from their support systems for longer and longer periods of time. Not just a three week class.......else, they go back to friends, family and work/education. Start summer camps......like the churches do, but for the purposes of building an *us versus them* mentality. Later, add WOW program......and then, the corps program. The youth are malleable and fall prey to indoctrination. The corps program was a multiplier in wierwille's climb to power: 1) Isolation of these "training centers" gave twi the availability, time and power over the individual without outside interference, and 2) Conformity to be obedient and follow "elder" corps established a pecking order that permeated the campus and fed the egos of even the most inept "elder" corps. [and there were PLENTY of inept "elder" corpse.]
In the end..........it all came tumbling down. Lots of reasons, I suppose......but the youth grew up and real life responsibilities, decisions and motivations were staring them in the face. Who has the means to give "volunteer services" to twi for a lifetime? Why? Why is this opportunistic cult hoarding millions? Where is this power and abundance that wierwille taught? Everyone is selling soap........and it's all being washed down the drain. The whole damn thing was a scam........as wierwille took every opportunity to advance himself into the spotlight.
It's a scam...........and that's why "people don't stick."
.
For the first few years of GSC, some people wondered whether Vic was a good man gone wrong... THIS analysis (presented by Skyrider) is legitimate and cuts through the bull$hit to demonstrate the motivation and intent from the very beginning.
When Vic demonized church leaders, was he employing psychological projection? Sure seems like it.
The CULT BLOB! I love that expression. It's so apt.
"Everyone is selling soap..." i.e. the Amway pyramid scheme. Also quite apt.
Was Wierwille a malignant narcissist?
Thanks Skyrider for continuing to ponder, reflect and share you comments the situation.
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Taxidev
The point you are making is very interesting, so much so that I had to look this up in my bible. And here is what I found:
Gal_6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Eph_2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
So, according to Paul, there certainly is a household of God. However, in the context of the verses, and looking at the Greek for faith and God, there isn't any limitation on where that household actually is. In other words, in the bible there is no stipulation as to actions one would be taking, or location, or manner of fellowship, or obedience to anyone other than God.
So, while I completely agree with the basic point you made, I absolutely disagree with this quoted statement.
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chockfull
OK, I will rephrase. I feel you got the intent, but apparently due to a couple of scriptures having similar phrases, the accuracy is missed. I will take that as I need to explain it better.
THERE IS NO HOUSEHOLD OF GOD DISTINCT FROM THE BODY OF CHRIST.
Or, if you understand the statement with a bit of original intent there is no "household of God" as taught by the Way International. This meaning that ordinary Christians are "in the family of God", but those in the Way are "in the household of God"..
THERE IS NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FAMILY OF GOD AND THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD.
As applied to the verses in Gal and Eph above, both references are talking about the overall group of Christians in the world that one might encounter as a classification separate than "all men". Those verses carry an instruction to value highly all those belonging to Christ, not a distinct group under authority of the Way, or the R&R railroad folks, or whatever church it is you might be attending.
Paul's instruction is not saying to Christian believers "do good unto all, but single out those in your church only to be especially good unto" or saying that the "fellowcitizens with the saints" is a group that includes only those of your particular denomination. Definitely not those who "took the class" or some such nonsense.
For Way people
THERE IS NO HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. THERE IS ONLY A FAMILY OF GOD WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST ON EARTH TODAY.
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Taxidev
Perfect! I didn't even need to read more. Now I completely agree with you.
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chockfull
What damage does this view on the household of God separate from the family of God do? It provides an environment where human evil can breed unchecked. What it leads to is the distinction in every follower's mind of some form of elite group separate from the body of Christ, yet fulfilling all of the things the body of Christ is supposed to. This breeds a form of "spiritual elitism" which comes off as ego. It definitely involves the ego, and it is like a virus on a computer - it masks itself. The ego masks as altruism. "We're just trying to move the Word over the world". "We're just trying to help people".
They don't realize that due to this false doctrine they systematically violate scripture by continually judging their brother in Christ as somewhat less than they and their group are.
I timothy 1:19 speaks of this:
holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith
I think "shipwrecked" is a perfect word to describe this state. Like on "Gilligan's Island" the crew and passengers set sail on a 3 hour tour. They become marooned on an island separated off from society and create their own little socio-political-economic system on an island that becomes its own identity.
What Way followers and former Way followers do not realize is they can rescue themselves from their own Gilligan's island by just rejecting false doctrine and interacting with other Christians not of the same background from the Way. That's not a "cure-all" or anything, just logically putting yourself into the path of others and viewing them as scripture tells you to.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Anti(against)-Christ. Indeed Chockful! Indeed.
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Bolshevik
Would it be similar to the use of term "earthly family". Because, nobody out there would understand what you meant if you said "biological family".
*Cues Burning Bridges by Singing Ladies of the Remnant of Old Drapes*
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TrustAndObey
Yes, the ol' us vs them.. Distinctions and separations. Not that there isn't a "set apart" body of Christ.. But then, that's God's separation not man(woman) made and since we know not the heart of humans, it's outside us.
Didn't someone do a topic once on defining cults.. I kind of recall that "us vs them" doctrine being a primary mover.. Even non-Christians would agree we all came from the same origin, share the same, and ought to be here to help one another..
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hiway29
and anything 'earthly' was wrong.... in our thinking or environment....as I'm thinking about in the context of wayspeak and conditioning, 'earthly family' is a total insult and dismissal of our families, parents, siblings.
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OldSkool
Boy, you got that right. I always hated that term, very disrespectful. Then they prop that garbage up using let the city bury its dead from the gospels. Oh and they even justify their divisive ways quoting Jesus that he came to bring a sword. Sick. Twisting scripture to suit their own ends.
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Rocky
Not just once. It's a recurring theme to identify the spiritual abuse of cults like TWI.
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Twinky
So thankful for the outstanding Christians that I have encountered in my church, the parent church, the local abbey (traditional main city church). and the very many people I've encountered through Christian organisations I'm involved with. There are so many ways to learn from each other (and preaching in church is only a small part of it) and so many ways to serve each other and the very much wider community.
I wouldn't want to pull any elitist cards over them; such tremendous people, I'd prefer to emulate their heart and commitment, not "lord it over them." Oddly, there are some that think that about me, too! (Now I know they must be lacking in role models!). Try checking out this verse in other translations:
and also this:
Sorry, I missed the elitist bit that shows that the "household" gets to be the superior part of the Body of Christ.
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Twinky
Anyway - how many "households" are there in a body?
My body, and doubtless yours, comprises blood, skin, bone, various soft tissues (and harder tissues), arranged as fingers, toes, lungs, etc. But my body, and doubtless yours, doesn't have any "households." It's just ... a body.
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Taxidev
You are very fortunate. I live in a very selfish part of the country, so finding true Christians that actually care about people is proving to be a challenge. In my area, they mostly seem to be pretend Christians - "(and preaching in church is only a small part of it)" - going through the show on Sundays. But I won't give up.
A while back, Louisiana had been devastated by a hurricane - Katrina, I think - and TWI did absolutely nothing. I remember thinking how odd it was that other Christian organizations, albeit larger, were contributing money, supplies, and people to aid in the rescue and rebuilding operations. Apparently, enough people voiced their disappointment and HQ sent a token to them, but only after being pressured. How sad that it took being pressured.
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Rocky
Yes, it was Katrina. "Devastated" is a dramatic understatement.
Edited by RockyThe more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Chockful's original post for this thread hit the nail squarely on the head and drove that nail home in one powerful swing of the hammer.
The elitism and pomposity that dogma generated in Wierwille's cult comes very close to actually being the root of all evil. But frankly, I believe it's not much of a logical leap to suggest that it was Vic's love of money and adulation that "inspired" that dogma.
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chockfull
Humans have a tremendous capacity for not only evil but to actually care about one another and do good. You see splashes of it here and there. The way I find Christians that actually care about people is to show them I care about them unconditionally first.
If we can change ourselves we can change the world.
Dude, totally. Even the term "earthly family" if you think about it smacks of tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
"I have to go make a phone call to my earthly family". It leads to so many questions:
LOL.
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Taxidev
Double LOL!!!!
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chockfull
Twinky in my opinion your mindset and how you are carrying this out practically is living the intent of Paul's teaching on the one body. I prefer your mindset any day of the week over elitist anti-Christ crapola about the household.
This to me is leadership. What you are doing there in interacting and serving in your community is a healthy model for recovering cult followers:
Take off the tinfoil hat. Stop being elitist. Stop thinking you are "Gamaliel the elder" with the need for people sitting at your feet. Take your "twig" around to visit all the different churches in your community and see how you could partner with them or help them. They are already doing it with each other many of them.
Now the exact makeup of this in each area probably is going to look a little different. For example, I don't have the denominational reporting structures of parent churches and I go to a community church. But the element I live similar to Twinky is that I volunteer and serve others as a Christian through programs. I like Habitat for Humanity a lot lately. Our church partners with Damascus Road - https://damascusroadproject.org/ - ending sex trafficking. I like helping them too - financially, community support. Other Christians are involved, go to other churches, there is a comraderie, a common goal, a real genuine service to others and society different than the Jehovah's witness style door-to-door witnessing in the Way trying to convince people to come sit in your house and be under your spiritual authority.
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chockfull
Wierwille and all of the Way leadership would label the causes I am currently involved in and contributing to "designer causes". Uncle Harry would teach that he used to give to other causes, but now he gives everything to the Way.
I think they've got it exactly wrong. Being in a cult is the designer cause. It's the frivolous cause, the one that enslaves many yet produces nothing of value in a community except a bunch of egotistical idiots plotting how to accost people in supermarkets, at home, etc. to convince them to "take the class". You know, the one that was plagiarized originally from BG Leonard, re-worked with the same content in different outline order, and taught by whomever the cult hasn't fired to date.
Causes where Christians in Christ's body band together and positively influence communities and genuinely help others those are the genuine causes, those are Christ's work. Whether it is a meal for the homeless a home for the downtrodden or rescuing someone from being drugged up and pimped out all over the world. That's providing value, not ego.
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chockfull
The Way started out more towards its roots as we look into it with an ecumenical bent. At one point it was even named "The Way Ecumenical Bible Center" or some such similar phrase. I recall black and white videos and cars pulling up to the Biblical Research Center and bouffant hairdos and Victor Paul Wierwille teaching the Sunday Teaching Service, which later was transcribed by his secretary and became the PFAL class collaterals. Mal and Jan George with Jan with one of those bouffant do's or something.
But I think the problem old VP had was people wouldn't stick. They would say "nice class" and go back to their churches. There was the old "Spiritual 40 club" or something, some method for VP to pay travel expenses to bring in teachers that formed the bulk of who he either mimic'd in nice terms or plagiarized in realistic terms. Eventually over time VP found out that being the nice guy didn't make an impact. No, he needed more followers for planes, coaches, and motorcycles. More adulation, more money.
So the root to getting people to leave their churches was poisoning the well. Conspiracy theory that VP espoused and had a high level of interest in was a great resource to tap into to accomplish this. Focus on the Illuminati for a little while, and then pretty much you can connect conspiracy theories to the devil's work throughout all the major Christian denominations especially the Catholics modern Christianity's whipping boy. The Pope as well as denomination heads were part of the Illuminati. The Illuminati was really a new term VP invented called "seed of the serpent" extracted from some permutation of Genesis discussion of seed.
So that conspiracy theory he can introduce in the Advanced Class, where you have people out of their own element and not connected to questioning intelligence. He started teaching that seed stuff in the foundational though but they took it out because people would think they were that in his classes. But what was in is VP's subtle sleight-of-hand magic with scriptures, coming off as a spiritual authority in the area of Biblical research. The real research commandos of modern Christianity. However that was a Drambuie-infused Kool cigarette pipe dream. If you want to know the reality purchase a copy of penworks book Undertow. That details a firsthand account of an early Corps graduate on the research team and lays bare how VP did research.
The key though was all of the Bullinger plagiarized stuff, which he morphed into "Keys to How the Word interprets Itself". Then he could dissect up the gospels with a new interpretation making all previous obsolete and declaring himself as "the" Christian visionary of the time. And have detailed instructional dogma just like L. Ron Hubbard did in Scientology to force on the noob cult member.
It should have instead have been entitled "Keys to How the Word Was Removed From the Brain Cells Through a Magical False Prophet's Sleight of Hand"
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Rocky
This was written more than 300 years before Christ:
Surely, I said, knowledge is the food of the soul; and we must take care, my friend, that the Sophist does not deceive us when he praises what he sells, like the dealers wholesale or retail who sell the food of the body; for they praise indiscriminately all their goods, without knowing what are really beneficial or hurtful: neither do their customers know, with the exception of any trainer or physician who may happen to buy of them. In like manner those who carry about the wares of knowledge, and make the round of the cities, and sell or retail them to any customer who is in want of them, praise them all alike; though I should not wonder, O my friend, if many of them were really ignorant of their effect upon the soul; and their customers equally ignorant, unless he who buys of them happens to be a physician of the soul. If, therefore, you have understanding of what is good and evil you may safely buy knowledge of Protagoras or any one; but if not, then, O my friend, pause, and do not hazard your dearest interests at a game of chance. For there is far greater peril in buying knowledge than in buying meat and drink. … Plato
Protagoras
Fromm, Erich. Man for Himself: An Inquiry Into the Psychology of Ethics (p. 3). Open Road Media. Kindle Edition.
Wise words from one of the Ancients... very few of us knew that when we were young people.
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skyrider
Exactly................"people wouldn't stick." This is well documented in Mrs. W's book as she details a list in 1958, 1959 and 1960 of wierwille's pfal classes in various cities. When you consider the hundreds of people who sat thru his classes each year (1957-1967)........the question becomes, "What happened to all these people who, having heard these truths taught live by Dr. Wierwille (cough, cough), were supposed to commit their lives, effort and money toward word-over-the-world twi servitude?" Apparently, they didn't see -- 1) power or 2) abundant living.........as highlighted in its promotion.
So......when vpw films the class in 1967, what does he do? He adds and augments certain preemptive strikes against the denominational churches. Wierwille not only wants his new students to sit thru his series of classes, but to stick with him. He demonizes church elders and their motives.......to guilt and shame anyone who, having taken pfal, would even think of going back to their church. With each passing year, the rhetoric escalates.........until vpw and others were teaching that denominational church hierarchy have the seed of the serpent. Egads! The level of hyperbole and accusations was absurd. Then, once you attend the "advanced class".......you hear about the Illuminati, the Thirteenth Tribe, Marxist Minstrels, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Seed of the Serpent, etc......you're indoctrinated into the inner sanctum and servitude.
Add......a year or two of going WOW, or Corps Training and you become absorbed into the cult blob. Leaders over leaders over leaders......each following orders of next higher (or lower) unit. As a leaf on a mighty tree (LOL).....you give respect to the twig leader, branch, limb, and trunk leader. Seems like more and more.......you are getting closer and closer to the dirt. Then, work on staff AT THE ROOT.........now, you've gone underground. Wowsers!!!
It seems clear to me that wierwille took stock of all those pfal students LEAVING HIM IN THE 60s.............and struck out on a subterfuge agenda. What was this new hidden objective? To entrap new students into his organization by destroying their old support systems of family, religion and community........and erect a new system, a spiritual family that replaced their "earthly family." In essence: A Cult.
Wierwille needed to separate these young students from their support systems for longer and longer periods of time. Not just a three week class.......else, they go back to friends, family and work/education. Start summer camps......like the churches do, but for the purposes of building an *us versus them* mentality. Later, add WOW program......and then, the corps program. The youth are malleable and fall prey to indoctrination. The corps program was a multiplier in wierwille's climb to power: 1) Isolation of these "training centers" gave twi the availability, time and power over the individual without outside interference, and 2) Conformity to be obedient and follow "elder" corps established a pecking order that permeated the campus and fed the egos of even the most inept "elder" corps.
In the end..........it all came tumbling down. Lots of reasons, I suppose......but the youth grew up and real life responsibilities, decisions and motivations were staring them in the face. Who has the means to give "volunteer services" to twi for a lifetime? Why? Why is this opportunistic cult hoarding millions? Where is this power and abundance that wierwille taught? Everyone is selling soap........and it's all being washed down the drain. The whole damn thing was a scam........as wierwille took every opportunity to advance himself into the spotlight.
It's a scam...........and that's why "people don't stick."
.
Edited by skyridertypos
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T-Bone
It makes a lot of sense - that a compelling force behind wierwille’s ever tightening grip of control was a fear of folks not sticking around - like in the earlier days, when folks heard his spiel but went back to their churches.
Edited by T-BoneClarity
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Rocky
For the first few years of GSC, some people wondered whether Vic was a good man gone wrong... THIS analysis (presented by Skyrider) is legitimate and cuts through the bull$hit to demonstrate the motivation and intent from the very beginning.
When Vic demonized church leaders, was he employing psychological projection? Sure seems like it.
The CULT BLOB! I love that expression. It's so apt.
"Everyone is selling soap..." i.e. the Amway pyramid scheme. Also quite apt.
Was Wierwille a malignant narcissist?
Thanks Skyrider for continuing to ponder, reflect and share you comments the situation.
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skyrider
Bump
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
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