To teach is to impart information with a view toward causing a person or group to acquire some knowledge or skill. Teaching is presenting theory with perhaps a challenge to put it into practice. The theory (teaching) is merely the potential for power. Succeeding at putting it into practice is actual power.
To indoctrinate is to condition a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. If what is taught is pseudo knowledge - the “teacher” may claim or promise its potential for power but when put into practice one only succeeds at failing.
The pseudo knowledge of cults is part of the whimpy-a$$ power they wield over the indoctrinated.
This letter was undersigned by about 60 signatures ("plus dozens more")........so, it's going to be very interesting to see how many of these ex-corps stay on the train of this Revival and Restoration RailRoad. You know, year after year.......going to meetings, getting others involved, soon-to-have-own-classes (??), donating time and effort and money....
Rather than a railroad..........in another year or so, it might be like trying to herd a bunch of cats.
Quote
March 2017
Dear beloved Way Corps ministers,
God’s abundant blessings, mercy, and peace be unto you. As Way Corps ministers, we have been and continue to be deeply concerned with the direction our beloved ministry has taken. This is why we persist in sounding the alarm.
We wholeheartedly desire revival and restoration for our ministry of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship. The entire Way Corps household should realize the need to restore this ministry back to the heart and Biblical truths as initiated by our Founder, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. He earned respect many times over by teaching the greatness of God’s Word, leading from the front, and cultivating individual believer’s long suits. He did not ask others to do what he had not done many times himself. This respect cannot simply be transferred. Those succeeding in the same position must earn respect themselves. This involves leading from the front rather than pushing from behind.
We remain firm in our requests to bring our ministry back to "It Is Written," so the Word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified, starting with:
Lift the non-Biblical “no debt” policy that excludes classes and service to those in debt. Rather, continue to teach God’s will of living within our means, working heartily as unto the Lord, and sharing of our abundance.
Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. Replace it with a larger elected board with established term limits and input from the entire Way Corps household.
Bring The Way Corps meetings back to their roots to include spiritually energized, in-depth teachings of God’s Word with an emphasis on scope and a word-by-word study of the scripture.
Redesign Sunday Teaching Services with an energized service and teachers that motivate and inspire believing. Stream the teachings—we have the fiber optic cable already in placeto do so. “Spiritual weakness and inability is caused by improper diet and neglect of the Word.” --VPW
Rethink how Way Corps assignments and placements are handled. Post open positions. Way Corps assignments should be in conjunction with each Way Corps minister, ensuring these decisions really are “best for the individual” and then the ministry by having open discussions and transparent motives.
Reestablish the Word living within a base of youth to lead us into the next generation, or the ministry will not survive. Reenergize their participation by respecting their needs for “Hot Bible,” musical alternatives, listening for and seeking their input, and honoring their desire for fellowship with one another.
Reestablish a research team. This is vital to restore the foundation of our ministry to the integrity of the Word.
Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues.
We know this is not an exhaustive list, but only several of the basics. You will likely have other concerns you would like to see addressed.
Our Lord Jesus Christ showed us how to best evaluate leadership by his simple statement: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” In Matthew 7:15-20, he warned as follows:
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent.
In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline.
The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year.
There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate.
Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low.
The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces. There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14)
There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable.
The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant.
These are factual indications of their fruit. Additional questions need to be asked: Do we have the same laughter, joy, and wholehearted goodwill and love for one another that we once knew and loved in our beloved ministry? Why have we not had any nationwide Way Corps face-to-face meetings where we can fully share and learn from one another in an open manner? Why is the labor for and loyalty to a few select individuals exalted above commitment and devotion to our heavenly Father? These things have thwarted the purposes of God.
The future of our ministry is in peril. This information is intended as a call to action. We have not undertaken this mission lightly, but rather with prayer and a multitude of counselors working together. We recognize our first letter was “loud” in that it addressed issues openly. It is now essential to “yell long” as the Way Corps continue to arise, allowing God to bare His mighty arm. It is time to boldly speak up; we stand approved before God, not men. We will no longer cover for the Board of Directors.
Your one-accord voice is needed. As stated in Acts 4:20, after being commanded by the chief priests and elders not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus, they simply replied, “We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.” They went to their “own company” and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them, Acts 4:23. As a result, in verse 24, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord. Boldness to speak the Word, signs and wonders, and a multitude of believers with one heart and soul was the fruit. Great grace was upon them all.
Many of us have informed our “own company”of our Biblical confrontation and why it was done. We have encouraged the believers to pray for our ministry and live the Word. The results have been a greater commitment to “It is Written,” relief that their concerns are being addressed, and a thankfulness that the Word of God is the foundation of our lives. It has been an answer of peace. We encourage you to do the same as God works in your heart.
It must be the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word.
The numbers that support a change at the Board of Director level are consistently growing. You can contact us at: revivalandrestoration@outlook.com and/or contact us personally with any questions or comments.
Lovingly in Christ,
Ray and Sandy Beets, Ted and Ramona Bidon, Paul and Connie Brooks, Brett and Dale Byers,
Kevin and Melody Carter, Todd and Michelle Cencich, Michael and Cindy Fort,
Gary and Patricia Frederick, Scott and Kristina Froelich, Matthew and Laurie Harmon,
Ed and Jacque Horney, Mark and Terri Ladwig, Aaron and Kelly Lapp, Darrell La Salle,
Rhett Major, Bob and Dottie Moynihan, Rich and Vera O’Neal,
Buddy and Donna Pressler, Stephen and Patty Fay Roberts, David and Cecilia Rowe, Jon and Lisa Ryan,
Michael and Billi-Jo Sanders, Phil and Sue Shelton, Rick and Marian Schilling, Jeffrey and Chrissy Skeltis,
Gene and Sherry Slavit, Sean and Mary Strickland, Walter and Christina Uyehara…plus dozens more
Same old manure in a new manure spreader! My reaction is to quote an old friend of mine from NY, Elaine Benes. “FAKE! FAKE! FAKE! FAKE!”! These morons have the credibility of Lucifer, the intellect of a lava rock, and the spiritual “perception and awaresness” of the dead drunk they worship at his waterlogged tomb in Ohio. They are as relevant today as Ma and Pa Kettle, and the Kettles had more Bible in their pitchfork than these idiots have learned in their 50 years of cultism! Too little too late alright. These spiritual terrorists deserve no place in any Christian home, except maybe at the bottom of a trash compactor! Grow up and accept the reality YOU have created for yourselves after one 1/2 century of lies, theft, and sexual abuse in the name of Jesus Christ! Hope you got asbestos robes for your “bema time”! There’s gonna be a lotta burning going on if you ever make it that far. REPENT YOU LYING, THIEVING, WEASELS! Get a chart and get a life! LMAO at you hypocritical, disgusting, professional beggars. You did it the old fashioned way..... YOU EARNED IT!!
Same old manure in a new manure spreader! My reaction is to quote an old friend of mine from NY, Elaine Benes. “FAKE! FAKE! FAKE! FAKE!”! These morons have the credibility of Lucifer, the intellect of a lava rock, and the spiritual “perception and awaresness” of the dead drunk they worship at his waterlogged tomb in Ohio. They are as relevant today as Ma and Pa Kettle, and the Kettles had more Bible in their pitchfork than these idiots have learned in their 50 years of cultism! Too little too late alright. These spiritual terrorists deserve no place in any Christian home, except maybe at the bottom of a trash compactor! Grow up and accept the reality YOU have created for yourselves after one 1/2 century of lies, theft, and sexual abuse in the name of Jesus Christ! Hope you got asbestos robes for your “bema time”! There’s gonna be a lotta burning going on if you ever make it that far. REPENT YOU LYING, THIEVING, WEASELS! Get a chart and get a life! LMAO at you hypocritical, disgusting, professional beggars. You did it the old fashioned way..... YOU EARNED IT!!
What a load of bull excrement in their praises to wierwille.......
So, obviously.........these guys are going to INDOCTRINATE, not teach.
..........adding a few of my own comments in red
Quote
March 2017
Dear beloved Way Corps ministers,
God’s abundant blessings, mercy, and peace be unto you. As Way Corps ministers, we have been and continue to be deeply concerned with the direction our beloved ministry has taken. This is why we persist in sounding the alarm. We wholeheartedly desire revival and restoration for our ministry of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship. The entire Way Corps household should realize the need to restore this ministry back to the heart and Biblical truths as initiated by our Founder, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. He earned respect many times over by teaching the greatness of God’s Word, leading from the front, and cultivating individual believer’s long suits.
Wierwille forfeited all credibility and respect when his plagiarism came into full view.
Wierwille's psychological and sexual pathologies infiltrated his classes, his programs and his abysmal organization.
He was a narcissist and an opportunist of the highest order........stealing and pilfering everything in his path.
He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse.
He NEVER led from the front........unless you call "seeking the spotlight" as leading. LOL
He didn't cultivate individual's long suits........he oppressed the wellspring of others' abilities.
Where were all the pastors, evangelists, prophets and apostles that were to come from "corps training?"
Yeah.........the 5 gift ministries were noted insignia on the way corps emblem. Riiiiiiight.
This UNBRIDLED ADULATION of wierwille.......is all you need to know about Moneyhands and these corps coordinators.
He did not ask others to do what he had not done many times himself. This respect cannot simply be transferred. Those succeeding in the same position must earn respect themselves. This involves leading from the front rather than pushing from behind.
We remain firm in our requests to bring our ministry back to "It Is Written," so the Word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified, starting with:
Lift the non-Biblical “no debt” policy that excludes classes and service to those in debt. Rather, continue to teach God’s will of living within our means, working heartily as unto the Lord, and sharing of our abundance. Who started these man-made doctrines in twi? Yep, wierwille did. He was fixated on money.
Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. Replace it with a larger elected board with established term limits and input from the entire Way Corps household. And, who started this "absolute power" that filtered down from one president to the next?
Bring The Way Corps meetings back to their roots to include spiritually energized, in-depth teachings of God’s Word with an emphasis on scope and a word-by-word study of the scripture. Spiritually energized? When did wierwille EVER operate word of knowledge, word of wisdom or discerning of spirits? Pppffftt. I witnessed wierwille in the BRC claiming that an 8th corps guy was *possessed*.......had daimon spirits, in fact.......and wierwille did nothing but go ballistic and stomp out. You damn corps coordinators have been lying and covering for wierwille for DECADES.
Redesign Sunday Teaching Services with an energized service and teachers that motivate and inspire believing. Stream the teachings—we have the fiber optic cable already in placeto do so. “Spiritual weakness and inability is caused by improper diet and neglect of the Word.” --VPW Hey, I got a better idea..........why don't you corps elitists get off you a$$es and SHOW everyone how it's done. Quit hiding behind the microphone and DO THE LORD'S WORK.
Rethink how Way Corps assignments and placements are handled. Post open positions. Way Corps assignments should be in conjunction with each Way Corps minister, ensuring these decisions really are “best for the individual” and then the ministry by having open discussions and transparent motives. How about this?....... 1) scrap the whole "way corps" crapola and get back to biblical basics.....like *members in particular* of the One Body of Christ. 2) Stop the pyramid-labeling and the elitist games......and just go about the Lord's work. 3) All those nametags and class designations were nothing more than bureaucratic-layering that caused envy, strife and division. 4) And, finally........all that "spiritual marine corps training" was 100%, grade-A cultism.
Reestablish the Word living within a base of youth to lead us into the next generation, or the ministry will not survive. Reenergize their participation by respecting their needs for “Hot Bible,” musical alternatives, listening for and seeking their input, and honoring their desire for fellowship with one another. Seems like that word "energize" or "reenergize" is your favorite label. Is it because you are projecting what you wish you had?
Reestablish a research team. This is vital to restore the foundation of our ministry to the integrity of the Word. Sure, after 50 YEARS......you STILL don't have it right, and need to get back to "rightly-dividing the word of truth." WTF has been going wrong for your past 5 decades?
Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues. NO THANKS.I do not need another debunked leader. I do not need you guys to mediate between God and man.......I have a lord, savior and mediator Jesus Christ for that.
Will the new R&R group be one that teaches or indoctrinates?
So far, all the teachings I've listed to have actually been teachings geared toward living free, living God's love, living God's power, what being like minded actually means...
There are 2 topics scheduled for this evening: "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". If these are any different I'll let you know.
7 hours ago, skyrider said:
What a load of bull excrement in their praises to wierwille
That does cause me to wonder about them. I've found quite a few contradictions in what VPW propounded, and I was never close to him, never on staff, never in the way corps. I just read the books. And no one I asked - not that there were that many - could clearly explain these things to me. And, I'm sorry to say, there are a couple names on that letter of people I had asked.
So far, all the teachings I've listed to have actually been teachings geared toward living free, living God's love, living God's power, what being like minded actually means...
There are 2 topics scheduled for this evening: "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". If these are any different I'll let you know.
That does cause me to wonder about them. I've found quite a few contradictions in what VPW propounded, and I was never close to him, never on staff, never in the way corps. I just read the books. And no one I asked - not that there were that many - could clearly explain these things to me. And, I'm sorry to say, there are a couple names on that letter of people I had asked.
To understand beyond the surface intent may require you to learn key concepts outside the realm of TWIness. I would ask them AND ask you to consider how on God's green Earth they could do anything different from what they've practiced for 40 and 50 years if they can't give thought to any knowledge (teaching) from any source other than the cult they've become fossilized in already.
To understand beyond the surface intent may require you to learn key concepts outside the realm of TWIness. I would ask them AND ask you to consider how on God's green Earth they could do anything different from what they've practiced for 40 and 50 years if they can't give thought to any knowledge (teaching) from any source other than the cult they've become fossilized in already.
To understand beyond the surface intent may require you to learn key concepts outside the realm of TWIness. I would ask them AND ask you to consider how on God's green Earth they could do anything different from what they've practiced for 40 and 50 years if they can't give thought to any knowledge (teaching) from any source other than the cult they've become fossilized in already.
The smart money says they won't. Oh, there will be some cosmetic differences for about 2-3 years as things are worked out, then the doctrine will be locked into place, the practics locked into place, and you have another twi with a different name and different people doing the exploiting. I'm curious how long it will be before the first higher-up from RnR leaves to do his own personal thing, claiming the others don't listen. Past experience with twi splinters suggest it won't be much longer....
I'm curious how long it will be before the first higher-up from RnR leaves to do his own personal thing, claiming the others don't listen. Past experience with twi splinters suggest it won't be much longer....
Will the new R&R group be one that teaches or indoctrinates?
Well, I was on the call for "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". Not surprisingly, at least for me, these were done with the view toward how we live in the world, how we relate to other people; all people. There was no subtle message about preferring the body of believers/household/fellowship at all.
Living with love toward all others. Giving - in any manner, not focused on money - with a pure heart, not looking for payback, but with the understanding that the best payback will come from God.
Well, I was on the call for "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". Not surprisingly, at least for me, these were done with the view toward how we live in the world, how we relate to other people; all people. There was no subtle message about preferring the body of believers/household/fellowship at all.
Living with love toward all others. Giving - in any manner, not focused on money - with a pure heart, not looking for payback, but with the understanding that the best payback will come from God.
Taxidev......if this is something that you find worthwhile, then I'm happy for you. Knowing the history of these corps coordinators and all those corps teachings on spiritual vigilance, walking in power, the 16 keys to walking by the spirit, defeating the adversary, etc.............hearing that they're teaching on "love as our motivation" is laugh-out-loud laughable. Baby steps, I guess........
For me, I just find dial-a-teaching or online teachings so impersonal and opportunistic. At least with local churches and fellowships.......there is a personal connection and involvement, rather than some distant "teacher" pontificating on spirituality. I never liked the corps phone hook-ups and I deeply resented those Branch Meetings dialed into twit-headquarters.......all the ridiculous gyrations we went thru to mimic like we were actually there. Ugh.
Just wait till they bring out those little child songs with hand movements...............
Thank you all for the information update. Years ago I read Kahler's and Skegdell's books, and just recently finished Lamy's first hand account. People choose to stay asleep and hoodwinked it seems.
Just when I thought it couldn't be more weird, it is more weird than I could have ever thought!! Every brother is fair game for decapitation at some point in WierdWorld.
Knowing the history of these corps coordinators and all those corps teachings on spiritual vigilance,
I'm sorry, I should have qualified that the first teacher wasn't one of the original founders of the group, for "love as our motivation", but the second was.
That might not make a difference for you, but I felt you should know.
I'm sure I mentioned this somewhere here, I enjoy listening to many teachers from different organizations. And it's so easy to do that now with the internet, youtube, their own web sites, and yes, even TV. So I'm really not looking for more than that from them. I have my local fellowship, and we have some very good teachers. We aren't truly associated with R&R, but we do have a connection with them, of a sort.
18 minutes ago, skyrider said:
all the ridiculous gyrations we went thru to mimic like we were actually there. Ugh.
I remember those, they WERE ridiculous. I avoided those, especially clapping. I figured, they can't hear me, so what's the point.
I have my local fellowship, and we have some very good teachers
Taxidev, nice that you've found a local fellowship that you can enjoy.
My question is: these teachers - are they doers of what they say? even more, are they doers of what the Bible commands them to do? and do they lead others into doing by example? This will have a practical outworking of service to the community at large, regardless of whether they are Christian believers or other people? Are these teachers full of head knowledge, or has that head knowledge developed into really wise, gentle, ways of dealing with complex situations?
My question is: these teachers - are they doers of what they say? even more, are they doers of what the Bible commands them to do? and do they lead others into doing by example?
I find it truly fascinating to watch transformation. I have had the benefit of watching 2 boys grow and transform (actually, one is still in process), increasing in their understanding of themselves and the world around them. This is pretty much the same. How so?, you ask? Well, I'll elaborate.
The homeowners were in the way corps, but they have been branch coordinators only. They stepped down for personal reasons, some being the micromanagement from HQ. As fellowship coordinators, they cooperated only minimally. I was speaking with the husband a while back about quite a few topics, both of us realizing that our understanding wasn't quite in line with TWI. It led to many interesting discussions into the Word, looking at it in so many different ways.
And, he has been quite vocal about the bogus rules propounded by TWI.
However, they were in the way corps, and for a good number of years. So, after departing ways with the way - haha - they have been cleaning out, and I have been able to watch it happen. So, while they haven't yet begun to reach out to people in the community - I think having to move recently may have hindered that - they do seem to be heading in that direction. They have expressed concern for people in general, and they emphasized multiple times that this is the form of giving we should be doing, to local people in need.
both of us realizing that our understanding wasn't quite in line with TWI. It led to many interesting discussions into the Word, looking at it in so many different ways
Sounds good.
One of the things that I have enjoyed about going to my church is that sometimes a familiar Bible passage will be read - and then the talk (sermon) is something so wildly different from the TWI "standard line" that it might as well be a different book altogether. But always, there is the Bible passage, and then an effort to link that to how we should be responding now, what our actions and heart should be - without ever "pointing the finger" and NEVER with any kind of bellowing, shouting, name-calling or bad language.
Perhaps you can encourage these people you're hanging out with to read a variety of different Bible translations. You might find that very helpful, both in choice of words, and in how some passages are punctuated. Also try looking at one or some of the more modern "thought for thought" versions, considering why they chose a particular turn of phrase, and what that might communicate to people today.
Frankly, now, I find it impossible to read, or hear read, the AV (what you call KJV), for a variety of reasons, one of which is the mindset I find myself being dragged back into, and dubious teaching brought back. There are other threads here about what Bible versions people prefer, and why.
You do understand, don't you, that VPW chose AV not because "it's the most accurate" but because he pinched a class that had been started in it, then pinched other men's work (esp Bullinger's); and giving his versions of archaic language made him seem to be a scholar. In fact HE DID NOT understand the language or some of the turns of phrase. If he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, some of his phony difficulties wouldn't even have been there for him to expound his great wisdom. And if he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, there are in fact some real gems that he could have drawn from some passages.
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skyrider
Cult Awareness groups, books, articles, and seminars.......also, teach the *necessary information* to over power cult indoctrination.
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skyrider
Will the new R&R group be one that teaches or indoctrinates?
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T-Bone
It’s been said that knowledge is power.
To teach is to impart information with a view toward causing a person or group to acquire some knowledge or skill. Teaching is presenting theory with perhaps a challenge to put it into practice. The theory (teaching) is merely the potential for power. Succeeding at putting it into practice is actual power.
To indoctrinate is to condition a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. If what is taught is pseudo knowledge - the “teacher” may claim or promise its potential for power but when put into practice one only succeeds at failing.
The pseudo knowledge of cults is part of the whimpy-a$$ power they wield over the indoctrinated.
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Rejoice
I looked around to find a definition of the "new R&R" group, but couldn't find it. Of whom are you speaking?
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Rocky
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24457-revival-and-restoration/
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WordWolf
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24586-rr-group-too-late-cult-sycophants-already-taken/
The other thread on "Revival and Restoration."
"R&R Group- Too late, cult sycophants already taken."
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skyrider
And..........if you want to trace its origin further
.......here is another link: why the moneyhands were mark and avoided
This letter was undersigned by about 60 signatures ("plus dozens more")........so, it's going to be very interesting to see how many of these ex-corps stay on the train of this Revival and Restoration RailRoad. You know, year after year.......going to meetings, getting others involved, soon-to-have-own-classes (??), donating time and effort and money....
Rather than a railroad..........in another year or so, it might be like trying to herd a bunch of cats.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Whiney little bitches! Bwaaaahahahaha!
Same old manure in a new manure spreader! My reaction is to quote an old friend of mine from NY, Elaine Benes. “FAKE! FAKE! FAKE! FAKE!”! These morons have the credibility of Lucifer, the intellect of a lava rock, and the spiritual “perception and awaresness” of the dead drunk they worship at his waterlogged tomb in Ohio. They are as relevant today as Ma and Pa Kettle, and the Kettles had more Bible in their pitchfork than these idiots have learned in their 50 years of cultism! Too little too late alright. These spiritual terrorists deserve no place in any Christian home, except maybe at the bottom of a trash compactor! Grow up and accept the reality YOU have created for yourselves after one 1/2 century of lies, theft, and sexual abuse in the name of Jesus Christ! Hope you got asbestos robes for your “bema time”! There’s gonna be a lotta burning going on if you ever make it that far. REPENT YOU LYING, THIEVING, WEASELS! Get a chart and get a life! LMAO at you hypocritical, disgusting, professional beggars. You did it the old fashioned way..... YOU EARNED IT!!
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skyrider
Thanks, DWBH.................
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skyrider
What a load of bull excrement in their praises to wierwille.......
So, obviously.........these guys are going to INDOCTRINATE, not teach.
..........adding a few of my own comments in red
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Taxidev
So far, all the teachings I've listed to have actually been teachings geared toward living free, living God's love, living God's power, what being like minded actually means...
There are 2 topics scheduled for this evening: "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". If these are any different I'll let you know.
That does cause me to wonder about them. I've found quite a few contradictions in what VPW propounded, and I was never close to him, never on staff, never in the way corps. I just read the books. And no one I asked - not that there were that many - could clearly explain these things to me. And, I'm sorry to say, there are a couple names on that letter of people I had asked.
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Rocky
To understand beyond the surface intent may require you to learn key concepts outside the realm of TWIness. I would ask them AND ask you to consider how on God's green Earth they could do anything different from what they've practiced for 40 and 50 years if they can't give thought to any knowledge (teaching) from any source other than the cult they've become fossilized in already.
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Taxidev
That's an excellent point - hence my wariness.
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WordWolf
The smart money says they won't. Oh, there will be some cosmetic differences for about 2-3 years as things are worked out, then the doctrine will be locked into place, the practics locked into place, and you have another twi with a different name and different people doing the exploiting. I'm curious how long it will be before the first higher-up from RnR leaves to do his own personal thing, claiming the others don't listen. Past experience with twi splinters suggest it won't be much longer....
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Taxidev
Well, I will be watching.
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Rocky
What will you be doing to broaden your understanding of cult behaviors and tactics in the meantime?
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chockfull
I'm sure you'll detect the working of the leaven or yeast as it causes the bread to rise.
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Taxidev
Well, I was on the call for "love as our motivation" and "genuine giving". Not surprisingly, at least for me, these were done with the view toward how we live in the world, how we relate to other people; all people. There was no subtle message about preferring the body of believers/household/fellowship at all.
Living with love toward all others. Giving - in any manner, not focused on money - with a pure heart, not looking for payback, but with the understanding that the best payback will come from God.
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skyrider
Taxidev......if this is something that you find worthwhile, then I'm happy for you. Knowing the history of these corps coordinators and all those corps teachings on spiritual vigilance, walking in power, the 16 keys to walking by the spirit, defeating the adversary, etc.............hearing that they're teaching on "love as our motivation" is laugh-out-loud laughable. Baby steps, I guess........
For me, I just find dial-a-teaching or online teachings so impersonal and opportunistic. At least with local churches and fellowships.......there is a personal connection and involvement, rather than some distant "teacher" pontificating on spirituality. I never liked the corps phone hook-ups and I deeply resented those Branch Meetings dialed into twit-headquarters.......all the ridiculous gyrations we went thru to mimic like we were actually there. Ugh.
Just wait till they bring out those little child songs with hand movements...............
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Rejoice
Thank you all for the information update. Years ago I read Kahler's and Skegdell's books, and just recently finished Lamy's first hand account. People choose to stay asleep and hoodwinked it seems.
Just when I thought it couldn't be more weird, it is more weird than I could have ever thought!! Every brother is fair game for decapitation at some point in WierdWorld.
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Taxidev
I'm sorry, I should have qualified that the first teacher wasn't one of the original founders of the group, for "love as our motivation", but the second was.
That might not make a difference for you, but I felt you should know.
I'm sure I mentioned this somewhere here, I enjoy listening to many teachers from different organizations. And it's so easy to do that now with the internet, youtube, their own web sites, and yes, even TV. So I'm really not looking for more than that from them. I have my local fellowship, and we have some very good teachers. We aren't truly associated with R&R, but we do have a connection with them, of a sort.
I remember those, they WERE ridiculous. I avoided those, especially clapping. I figured, they can't hear me, so what's the point.
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Twinky
Taxidev, nice that you've found a local fellowship that you can enjoy.
My question is: these teachers - are they doers of what they say? even more, are they doers of what the Bible commands them to do? and do they lead others into doing by example? This will have a practical outworking of service to the community at large, regardless of whether they are Christian believers or other people? Are these teachers full of head knowledge, or has that head knowledge developed into really wise, gentle, ways of dealing with complex situations?
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Taxidev
I find it truly fascinating to watch transformation. I have had the benefit of watching 2 boys grow and transform (actually, one is still in process), increasing in their understanding of themselves and the world around them. This is pretty much the same. How so?, you ask? Well, I'll elaborate.
The homeowners were in the way corps, but they have been branch coordinators only. They stepped down for personal reasons, some being the micromanagement from HQ. As fellowship coordinators, they cooperated only minimally. I was speaking with the husband a while back about quite a few topics, both of us realizing that our understanding wasn't quite in line with TWI. It led to many interesting discussions into the Word, looking at it in so many different ways.
And, he has been quite vocal about the bogus rules propounded by TWI.
However, they were in the way corps, and for a good number of years. So, after departing ways with the way - haha - they have been cleaning out, and I have been able to watch it happen. So, while they haven't yet begun to reach out to people in the community - I think having to move recently may have hindered that - they do seem to be heading in that direction. They have expressed concern for people in general, and they emphasized multiple times that this is the form of giving we should be doing, to local people in need.
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Twinky
Well, that sounds quite promising.
Sounds good.
One of the things that I have enjoyed about going to my church is that sometimes a familiar Bible passage will be read - and then the talk (sermon) is something so wildly different from the TWI "standard line" that it might as well be a different book altogether. But always, there is the Bible passage, and then an effort to link that to how we should be responding now, what our actions and heart should be - without ever "pointing the finger" and NEVER with any kind of bellowing, shouting, name-calling or bad language.
Perhaps you can encourage these people you're hanging out with to read a variety of different Bible translations. You might find that very helpful, both in choice of words, and in how some passages are punctuated. Also try looking at one or some of the more modern "thought for thought" versions, considering why they chose a particular turn of phrase, and what that might communicate to people today.
Frankly, now, I find it impossible to read, or hear read, the AV (what you call KJV), for a variety of reasons, one of which is the mindset I find myself being dragged back into, and dubious teaching brought back. There are other threads here about what Bible versions people prefer, and why.
You do understand, don't you, that VPW chose AV not because "it's the most accurate" but because he pinched a class that had been started in it, then pinched other men's work (esp Bullinger's); and giving his versions of archaic language made him seem to be a scholar. In fact HE DID NOT understand the language or some of the turns of phrase. If he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, some of his phony difficulties wouldn't even have been there for him to expound his great wisdom. And if he'd understood English, especially idiomatic English, and English grammar, there are in fact some real gems that he could have drawn from some passages.
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