Was baptized Roman Catholic, left it at the age of 10 and after 50+ years, have returned.
Why???
14 hours ago, modwildcat said:
Traditional and Novus Ordo masses
I find "mass" a weird thing ("communion," too; the Anglican version). Isn't it supposed to be a "sacred" meal? Since when did people have meals kneeling down with their hands cupped? Or drink wine, kneeling (unless they've had too much!)? Too much ritual, for my liking.
Anyway, Wildcat, enjoy your spiritual journey wherever it takes you. There is much to learn, from humble Christians everywhere.
Welcome back to posting here! I can't say I've made the same choices as you, but then I don't have your reasons for making them. If it's working for you, then fine.
I also think Pope Francis is tops. (Frankly, I would have rather he gotten the Papacy rather than Benedict last time.) I think he's just what the RCC needs.
He's ( o.k ) but his adopting the hug a tree mindset is just another example of 'virtue signalling' to the latest designer cause.
I never said he was perfect. No Pope can satisfy everyone. (I've seen one person who thinks that his only acceptable action would be to immediately dismantle the RCC and hand out all its assets.) What, precisely, do you think he SHOULD be doing that he's not doing? Remember that he's got the entire RCC to run, and if he just announced a complete inversion of the group, he'd find himself the victim of a sniper.
I think Pope Francis is doing a lot of good for the Roman Catholic Church…My sister is very involved in her parish and has commented on the changes and reform he has inspired.
Let's see....he could start by calling out Islam for what it really is, an ideological, political force intent on enslaving the world ( would probably trigger a 'holy war' tho !! ) He could put an end to the church 'forbidding to marry' priests. He could sanction the use of contraception especially in third world countries. Heck, the RC church has enough money to supply the contraception BUT, they still have the same mindset as muslims...increase converts by breeding. This is just for starters.
"Let's see....he could start by calling out Islam for what it really is, an ideological, political force intent on enslaving the world ( would probably trigger a 'holy war' tho !! )"
EXACTLY. He's trying to make the RCC a group of COMPASSION. Starting a new crusade isn't exactly going to help- or work, for that matter. It will get the RCC AND Islam vilified, which will be bad for the RCC AND its members.
"He could put an end to the church 'forbidding to marry' priests."
They've been talking about that for decades. No consensus has been reached. And all the new ramifications would have to be covered. I think that they should expand the deaconate and promote that for those who feel they could not meet all the requirements of the priesthood but feel a calling. That would alleviate some of the issues caused by lower numbers of priests. Eventually, the RCC will come to some sort of consensus on celibacy and the priesthood.
"He could sanction the use of contraception especially in third world countries."
No, he couldn't. The RCC has a big issue with contraception and think it violates God's Will. They're not going to say "God disapproves but this decision is popular so we're going to run with it..." They think that we can resort to mathematics when preventing childbirth, but not physics or chemistry. I don't agree with them, but I see where they're coming from, and they ARE more about responsibility than about taking any of this lightly.
" Heck, the RC church has enough money to supply the contraception"
Not unless they sell off their stuff. They have some expensive things but not gobs of liquid capital to swim in. Money comes in-and flows out.
"BUT, they still have the same mindset as muslims...increase converts by breeding. "
That's not their reasoning, and it's sad to misrepresent them that badly, then turn around and announce you can solve their problems easily. In fact, his reluctance to change to what's popular rather than traditional argues AGAINST "the latest designer causes".
"This is just for starters."
Thanks for replying, Allan. However, I hope you're getting the idea that it's not all as simple as you made it out to be.
I think that they should expand the deaconate and promote that for those who feel they could not meet all the requirements of the priesthood but feel a calling.
The requirements for priesthood is in 1 Timothy 3. But I guess they haven't read that.
The requirements for priesthood is in 1 Timothy 3. But I guess they haven't read that.
1 Timothy 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine [c]or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation [d]incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not [e]double-tongued, [f]or addicted to much wine [g]or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 [h]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a [j]high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
14 I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15 but [k]in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how [l]one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. 16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh, Was [m]vindicated [n]in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
A) I don't see the word "priest" mentioned anywhere in that chapter.
B) Many Catholics do READ the Bible. There's a fundamental divide between "sola scriptura" Christians (the Bible and that's it, in theory) and historic/high churches. The historic churches rely largely on their history, thinking that something is lost skipping that and ONLY using the Bible. It is true that those of us reading only the Bible ARE relying on history- just a limited amount of it. So, we approach things in fundamentally different ways. Doesn't mean I need to pretend they can't find Genesis in a Bible that's handed to them, or something. I know it's easy- and twi made it policy- to bash other Christians, "FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED", but it's not necessary.
Edited by WordWolf The formatting system sucks eggs.
The historic churches rely largely on their history, thinking that something is lost skipping that and ONLY using the Bible.
This was the thinking of the Pharisees, and Jesus Christ confronted them. They added so many rules to the Mosaic laws, rules they wanted others to adhere to, but not themselves.
8 hours ago, WordWolf said:
I know it's easy- and twi made it policy- to bash other Christians
I'm not bashing other Christians, I'm criticizing the Roman Church leaders. I've met many wonderful Catholics, including priests, that have shown they have very loving hearts for people.
As you all (probably) know, moderators have two accounts: one as a moderator, and one as our normal selves. For a long time, the moderators' identities were secret. Many were outed a few years ago, but not all. If you don't know by now that I am Raf, you probably don't care. Whatever, I am Raf.
It is not my place to disclose the identities of other moderators, with the exception of pawtucket, who owns the site but rarely posts. Two mods have mostly been monitoring things here day to day. Modgellan is the other one. I will not disclose Modgellan's identity.
And I will not disclose Modwildcat's ID either. If he/she chooses to, that's up to him/her.
Personally, I think this moderator's faith journey would be fascinating if he/she would disclose his/her identity.
Finding out that modwildcat returned to Catholicism is ... not terribly interesting to me. I mean, who is modwildcat?
But finding out THIS PERSON returned to Catholicism is surprising, to say the least.
So, I invite modwildcat to post under his/her original screen name and continue this fascinating conversation. Hit me up with a PM if you can't find your login credentials.
I honestly had no memory of him being a moderator. I had to do some digging to piece it together. Pretty sure there was a specific reason, but it's erased from my memory.
Welcome back, oldiesman.
Rather astonished that you went to any Trinitarian church, much less the RC's. What changed your mind?
Once a cultist always a cultist I guess, eh? LOL! A 50 year long circle. Glad you found your way home. I still like Pope Frank! Way better guy than that DiKKKtor Paul pope you used to worship! And, a helluva lot less dangerous too. Light some candles in St. Paddy’s for us here at the GSC when ya get a chance. Thanks!
If you're up for it, I'd really like to hear some of your journey, what led to this, to whatever degree you'd volunteer. (Naturally, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't intend to be rude if you volunteer anything.)
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Taxidev
Would you like a copy of Dan's 114 page paper on that? And maybe JLynne's 13 page rebuttal of Dan?
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Twinky
Why???
I find "mass" a weird thing ("communion," too; the Anglican version). Isn't it supposed to be a "sacred" meal? Since when did people have meals kneeling down with their hands cupped? Or drink wine, kneeling (unless they've had too much!)? Too much ritual, for my liking.
Anyway, Wildcat, enjoy your spiritual journey wherever it takes you. There is much to learn, from humble Christians everywhere.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hey wildcat!
I love your Pope! Hope he sticks around for a long while. Enjoy him and your Church.
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Rocky
I agree!
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WordWolf
Welcome back to posting here! I can't say I've made the same choices as you, but then I don't have your reasons for making them. If it's working for you, then fine.
I also think Pope Francis is tops. (Frankly, I would have rather he gotten the Papacy rather than Benedict last time.) I think he's just what the RCC needs.
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Allan
He's ( o.k ) but his adopting the hug a tree mindset is just another example of 'virtue signalling' to the latest designer cause.
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WordWolf
I never said he was perfect. No Pope can satisfy everyone. (I've seen one person who thinks that his only acceptable action would be to immediately dismantle the RCC and hand out all its assets.) What, precisely, do you think he SHOULD be doing that he's not doing? Remember that he's got the entire RCC to run, and if he just announced a complete inversion of the group, he'd find himself the victim of a sniper.
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T-Bone
Way to go Wildcat !
I think Pope Francis is doing a lot of good for the Roman Catholic Church…My sister is very involved in her parish and has commented on the changes and reform he has inspired.
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Allan
Let's see....he could start by calling out Islam for what it really is, an ideological, political force intent on enslaving the world ( would probably trigger a 'holy war' tho !! ) He could put an end to the church 'forbidding to marry' priests. He could sanction the use of contraception especially in third world countries. Heck, the RC church has enough money to supply the contraception BUT, they still have the same mindset as muslims...increase converts by breeding. This is just for starters.
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WordWolf
"Let's see....he could start by calling out Islam for what it really is, an ideological, political force intent on enslaving the world ( would probably trigger a 'holy war' tho !! )"
EXACTLY. He's trying to make the RCC a group of COMPASSION. Starting a new crusade isn't exactly going to help- or work, for that matter. It will get the RCC AND Islam vilified, which will be bad for the RCC AND its members.
"He could put an end to the church 'forbidding to marry' priests."
They've been talking about that for decades. No consensus has been reached. And all the new ramifications would have to be covered. I think that they should expand the deaconate and promote that for those who feel they could not meet all the requirements of the priesthood but feel a calling. That would alleviate some of the issues caused by lower numbers of priests. Eventually, the RCC will come to some sort of consensus on celibacy and the priesthood.
"He could sanction the use of contraception especially in third world countries."
No, he couldn't. The RCC has a big issue with contraception and think it violates God's Will. They're not going to say "God disapproves but this decision is popular so we're going to run with it..." They think that we can resort to mathematics when preventing childbirth, but not physics or chemistry. I don't agree with them, but I see where they're coming from, and they ARE more about responsibility than about taking any of this lightly.
" Heck, the RC church has enough money to supply the contraception"
Not unless they sell off their stuff. They have some expensive things but not gobs of liquid capital to swim in. Money comes in-and flows out.
"BUT, they still have the same mindset as muslims...increase converts by breeding. "
That's not their reasoning, and it's sad to misrepresent them that badly, then turn around and announce you can solve their problems easily. In fact, his reluctance to change to what's popular rather than traditional argues AGAINST "the latest designer causes".
"This is just for starters."
Thanks for replying, Allan. However, I hope you're getting the idea that it's not all as simple as you made it out to be.
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Taxidev
The requirements for priesthood is in 1 Timothy 3. But I guess they haven't read that.
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WordWolf
1 Timothy 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine [c]or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation [d]incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not [e]double-tongued, [f]or addicted to much wine [g]or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 [h]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a [j]high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
14 I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15 but [k]in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how [l]one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. 16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was [m]vindicated [n]in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.
======================================================================
A) I don't see the word "priest" mentioned anywhere in that chapter.
B) Many Catholics do READ the Bible. There's a fundamental divide between "sola scriptura" Christians (the Bible and that's it, in theory) and historic/high churches. The historic churches rely largely on their history, thinking that something is lost skipping that and ONLY using the Bible. It is true that those of us reading only the Bible ARE relying on history- just a limited amount of it. So, we approach things in fundamentally different ways. Doesn't mean I need to pretend they can't find Genesis in a Bible that's handed to them, or something. I know it's easy- and twi made it policy- to bash other Christians, "FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED", but it's not necessary.
Edited by WordWolfThe formatting system sucks eggs.
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Taxidev
This was the thinking of the Pharisees, and Jesus Christ confronted them. They added so many rules to the Mosaic laws, rules they wanted others to adhere to, but not themselves.
I'm not bashing other Christians, I'm criticizing the Roman Church leaders. I've met many wonderful Catholics, including priests, that have shown they have very loving hearts for people.
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modcat5
For what it's worth:
As you all (probably) know, moderators have two accounts: one as a moderator, and one as our normal selves. For a long time, the moderators' identities were secret. Many were outed a few years ago, but not all. If you don't know by now that I am Raf, you probably don't care. Whatever, I am Raf.
It is not my place to disclose the identities of other moderators, with the exception of pawtucket, who owns the site but rarely posts. Two mods have mostly been monitoring things here day to day. Modgellan is the other one. I will not disclose Modgellan's identity.
And I will not disclose Modwildcat's ID either. If he/she chooses to, that's up to him/her.
Personally, I think this moderator's faith journey would be fascinating if he/she would disclose his/her identity.
Finding out that modwildcat returned to Catholicism is ... not terribly interesting to me. I mean, who is modwildcat?
But finding out THIS PERSON returned to Catholicism is surprising, to say the least.
So, I invite modwildcat to post under his/her original screen name and continue this fascinating conversation. Hit me up with a PM if you can't find your login credentials.
And wow.
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oldiesman
Thanks Raf, it was a mistake for me to post under the mod name.. complete brain fart.
So yeah I go to both the Novus Ordo Mass and also the Traditional Latin Mass, and guess what I do most during those? You guess it, SIT.
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oldiesman
Now I hope to get notified when somebody posts on this thread because I haven't been for months. Don't remember how everything works.
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WordWolf
Just so we have confirmation,
these 2 screen-names belong to the same person?
If so, yes, I'm VERY surprised.
(One, that he was a Mod, two, that his personal journey went in this direction.)
Before we get to discussing that, I'd just like independent confirmation that this wasn't just oldies making some odd joke at modwildcat's expense.
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Raf
Modwildcat is Oldiesman
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Raf
I honestly had no memory of him being a moderator. I had to do some digging to piece it together. Pretty sure there was a specific reason, but it's erased from my memory.
Welcome back, oldiesman.
Rather astonished that you went to any Trinitarian church, much less the RC's. What changed your mind?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Wow Oldies!
Once a cultist always a cultist I guess, eh? LOL! A 50 year long circle. Glad you found your way home. I still like Pope Frank! Way better guy than that DiKKKtor Paul pope you used to worship! And, a helluva lot less dangerous too. Light some candles in St. Paddy’s for us here at the GSC when ya get a chance. Thanks!
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Rocky
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Raf
I know, right?
As foreseeable as me becoming a..
Well, I guess it's not THAT impossible. But still, wow!
And how about that 10-month "let's leave everyone in suspense" period?
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WordWolf
All right, I REALLY didn't see that coming.
If you're up for it, I'd really like to hear some of your journey, what led to this, to whatever degree you'd volunteer. (Naturally, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't intend to be rude if you volunteer anything.)
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WordWolf
In case you need to be quoted to get a response, I'm quoting you. :)
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