My limited understanding of the meaning of that phrase is this:
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It doesn't say anything about inviting people to a bible fellowship, only to be reconciled to God. I'm sure that would often include some biblical teaching, but that can happen anywhere - my living room, his living room, the park bench, over lunch at a diner, etc, etc... And I have enjoyed a good number of biblical discussions with people that resulted in nothing more than a thank you for sharing my understanding of the Word.
It was only when I heard the term "outreach" that it was clear to me that they wanted to get people in the fellowship meeting. But, typically, I didn't feel comfortable inviting people to see what I was seeing in those fellowships. As that feeling grew over the past few years, I knew there was no way I would ever invite anyone to our fellowship, and that was the beginning of the end of TWI for me.
My limited understanding of the meaning of that phrase is this:
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It doesn't say anything about inviting people to a bible fellowship, only to be reconciled to God. I'm sure that would often include some biblical teaching, but that can happen anywhere - my living room, his living room, the park bench, over lunch at a diner, etc, etc... And I have enjoyed a good number of biblical discussions with people that resulted in nothing more than a thank you for sharing my understanding of the Word.
It was only when I heard the term "outreach" that it was clear to me that they wanted to get people in the fellowship meeting. But, typically, I didn't feel comfortable inviting people to see what I was seeing in those fellowships. As that feeling grew over the past few years, I knew there was no way I would ever invite anyone to our fellowship, and that was the beginning of the end of TWI for me.
I've got to tell you about this guy I was "witnessing to" or whatever it is you want to call it one time.
I was having lunch with this Moslem - very kind soul. The conversation came around to God and religion. I was describing to him my faith. He related to me some of his faith, and where it led him. One very interesting path is that he received a telephone call from someone from his home country (Iran) for charitable donations. Instead of blowing them off or blindly giving money he decided he wanted to be involved. The charity was one that placed homeless children from back home in Iran with families living in the United States that were seeking adoption. So he became involved, ended up donating quite a bit of money and was personally responsible for placing 6 children in adopting families.
We had a great time discussing God, truth, man, religion over smoked meat in Montreal Quebec. He told me he was always skeptical of those whose livelihood was enhanced by the growth of their flock, as they were a biased witness. He equated it to a company he was working for giving an opinion about it.
Was I being an ambassador for Christ towards him, or was he being an ambassador for Mohammed towards me? Or both?
What I do know is I seldom remember a man's words, but I always remember a man's actions. This man's actions helped me remember his words.
We were The Way's sales force. No salary, no commissions, just ridicule and chastisement if we failed to meet sales quotas.
It's important to understand that PFAL was not the main product. PFAL and the accompanying series of classes were the enticement The real product, or goal, if you prefer, was to find people who would faithfully donate 10, 15, 20% (or more) of their income... paycheck after paycheck, month after month and year after year. Yes, they made a profit on the classes, but it was chump change compared to a lifetime of handing over your hard earned cash.
It was a scam, folks. The sooner someone comes to grips with that realization, the more time and resources they have left to rise back up from the rubble.
Your post made me think of an episode on Silicon Valley where these 2 guys in a start-up internet company are discussing money and value...FYI - Jared - the nerdy starry-eyed guy plugging in cables is like me at the height of my TWI-indoctrination daze
I'm all for telling how God is good, is faithful, cares. And giving examples. Happy to share with anyone how God is at work. If that's "moving the word," fine.
What we never knew, much less said, was that in TWI it was "moving the goal posts" that was what was meant.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Thomas, LMAO!!
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Taxidev
My limited understanding of the meaning of that phrase is this:
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It doesn't say anything about inviting people to a bible fellowship, only to be reconciled to God. I'm sure that would often include some biblical teaching, but that can happen anywhere - my living room, his living room, the park bench, over lunch at a diner, etc, etc... And I have enjoyed a good number of biblical discussions with people that resulted in nothing more than a thank you for sharing my understanding of the Word.
It was only when I heard the term "outreach" that it was clear to me that they wanted to get people in the fellowship meeting. But, typically, I didn't feel comfortable inviting people to see what I was seeing in those fellowships. As that feeling grew over the past few years, I knew there was no way I would ever invite anyone to our fellowship, and that was the beginning of the end of TWI for me.
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chockfull
I've got to tell you about this guy I was "witnessing to" or whatever it is you want to call it one time.
I was having lunch with this Moslem - very kind soul. The conversation came around to God and religion. I was describing to him my faith. He related to me some of his faith, and where it led him. One very interesting path is that he received a telephone call from someone from his home country (Iran) for charitable donations. Instead of blowing them off or blindly giving money he decided he wanted to be involved. The charity was one that placed homeless children from back home in Iran with families living in the United States that were seeking adoption. So he became involved, ended up donating quite a bit of money and was personally responsible for placing 6 children in adopting families.
We had a great time discussing God, truth, man, religion over smoked meat in Montreal Quebec. He told me he was always skeptical of those whose livelihood was enhanced by the growth of their flock, as they were a biased witness. He equated it to a company he was working for giving an opinion about it.
Was I being an ambassador for Christ towards him, or was he being an ambassador for Mohammed towards me? Or both?
What I do know is I seldom remember a man's words, but I always remember a man's actions. This man's actions helped me remember his words.
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waysider
Let's boil the cabbage down, shall we?
We were The Way's sales force. No salary, no commissions, just ridicule and chastisement if we failed to meet sales quotas.
It's important to understand that PFAL was not the main product. PFAL and the accompanying series of classes were the enticement The real product, or goal, if you prefer, was to find people who would faithfully donate 10, 15, 20% (or more) of their income... paycheck after paycheck, month after month and year after year. Yes, they made a profit on the classes, but it was chump change compared to a lifetime of handing over your hard earned cash.
It was a scam, folks. The sooner someone comes to grips with that realization, the more time and resources they have left to rise back up from the rubble.
Sunk Cost Fallacy
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T-Bone
Such a great point, Waysider !
Your post made me think of an episode on Silicon Valley where these 2 guys in a start-up internet company are discussing money and value...FYI - Jared - the nerdy starry-eyed guy plugging in cables is like me at the height of my TWI-indoctrination daze
Silicone Valley - money and. Value
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waysider
Yeah. We thought we were part of something magical.
Yoiks!
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Twinky
I'm all for telling how God is good, is faithful, cares. And giving examples. Happy to share with anyone how God is at work. If that's "moving the word," fine.
What we never knew, much less said, was that in TWI it was "moving the goal posts" that was what was meant.
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