Bob Moynihan's Command: Not allow mark/avoid brother to attend his sister's funeral

[Watered Garden]

Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls. 

Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

12 minutes ago, Watered Garden said:

Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls. 

Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused.

Sounds like a midnight lineup in a fraternity, circa 1965. 

George

[Grace Valerie Claire]

55 minutes ago, Watered Garden said:

Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls. 

Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused.

WG, how horrible that must of been for everyone.  I think if this had happened to me, I would have left.  Sounds to me, that the people in charge of you, were A--holes.  

[WordWolf]

1 hour ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

Sounds like a midnight lineup in a fraternity, circa 1965. 

George

In a fraternity, it's an example of what's called "hazing." Hazing is illegal, and is grounds for throwing a fraternity off-campus, or throwing a chapter out of a fraternity (or not, if the fraternity is cool with it.)   Colleges make a big deal out of it, and legal action can be taken.  Some fraternities make a huge deal out of it.  But in twi, it was business as usual. "They're feeling too comfortable- time for a little hazing to shake them out of their complacency..."

[Infoabsorption]

2 hours ago, Watered Garden said:

 We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls. 

 

Watered Garden...just wondering what era this incident occurred?

Also I think the ones who got themselves kicked out early did themselves a favor without realizing it.

[waysider]

It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience.

 

edit: Here's the thing about these kind of incidents.Some people can walk away unscathed while others are deeply scarred emotionally. There was no follow up for those who were deeply affected. In fact, those who were deeply affected were made to feel it was their own fault they were hurt. Like a spouse who is led to believe it's somehow their own fault they were the victim of abuse. It's bass-ackwards.

Edited June 6, 2018 by waysider

[GeorgeStGeorge]

2 hours ago, WordWolf said:

In a fraternity, it's an example of what's called "hazing." Hazing is illegal, and is grounds for throwing a fraternity off-campus, or throwing a chapter out of a fraternity (or not, if the fraternity is cool with it.)   Colleges make a big deal out of it, and legal action can be taken.  Some fraternities make a huge deal out of it.  But in twi, it was business as usual. "They're feeling too comfortable- time for a little hazing to shake them out of their complacency..."

Hazing was far more accepted in the 50s-70s.  Then again, one of the chapters of the fraternity I belong to was de-chartered because of an incident gone wrong.  (The pledges were to dig a big pit on the beach.  It collapsed, suffocating one of the pledges.)  That incident provoked a LOT of changes in the national fraternity's codes.  This is a bit of a de-rail, I suppose; but I'm reminded of how different individual chapters were.  At my undergrad institution (MIT), when I was a freshman, some of the seniors remembered having a lineup, ONCE.  In grad school (U of Illinois), pledges were rousted out of bed about once a month, along with other "games."

George

[Twinky]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty.

 

Yes, that's something they did to in rez Corps, usually in the first semester, and now and again at other times, too. There's some tiny trigger event, nothing significant, and it's an excuse to blast everyone in sight, threaten them, browbeat them some more. 

I think one of the provocations for throwing out my Corps was: we were out running, outside, one cold and frosty midwinter morning: the usual 6am wake-up.  Ed Horney, Corps Coordinator, had decreed that we must all wear our hats.  Now, if a person is running, something to be expected is - getting hot! - so some people took off their hats for a while towards the end of their runs.  Adults, right?  Able to make decisions as to personal comfort levels??

This crime of taking off one's hat was grounds for giving all of us a bo££ocking and threatening to throw all of us out for disobedience.  Happily (?), we were all allowed to stay, providing we didn't dare stray into disobedience again.

What?  They'd rather we got heatstroke from being too bundled up?  (Never mind injuring ourselves by slipping on the ice, or snow, that they were making us run on!!)

There were occasional other events of this type.

[waysider]

1 hour ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

This is a bit of a de-rail, I suppose; but I'm reminded of how different individual chapters were

I don't think that is really off topic. It illustrates that individual experiences were varied. Everyone's experience is uniquely their own.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

19 hours ago, Twinky said:

 

Yes, that's something they did to in rez Corps, usually in the first semester, and now and again at other times, too. There's some tiny trigger event, nothing significant, and it's an excuse to blast everyone in sight, threaten them, browbeat them some more. 

I think one of the provocations for throwing out my Corps was: we were out running, outside, one cold and frosty midwinter morning: the usual 6am wake-up.  Ed Horney, Corps Coordinator, had decreed that we must all wear our hats.  Now, if a person is running, something to be expected is - getting hot! - so some people took off their hats for a while towards the end of their runs.  Adults, right?  Able to make decisions as to personal comfort levels??

This crime of taking off one's hat was grounds for giving all of us a bo££ocking and threatening to throw all of us out for disobedience.  Happily (?), we were all allowed to stay, providing we didn't dare stray into disobedience again.

What?  They'd rather we got heatstroke from being too bundled up?  (Never mind injuring ourselves by slipping on the ice, or snow, that they were making us run on!!)

There were occasional other events of this type.

yep. Way Corps=Marine Corps, not Peace Corps(which many believers thought that was what Wierwille had in mind. Jackass never served in the military, got excused for religious reasons).

Edited June 7, 2018 by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

[WordWolf]

1 hour ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

yep. Way Corps=Marine Corps, not Peace Corps(which many believers thought that was what Wierwille had in mind. Jackass never served in the military, got excused for religious reasons).

when addressing the Way Corps live (and caught on tape while doing so), vpw was rather clear that it was intended to serve like the Marine Corps. He claimed that the US was able to get effective, loyal soldiers.  His explanations after that diverged slightly in wording, but the intent was the same. "I thought, 'What about God'?" "So I concluded that the Army was greater than God, the Marines were greater than God..."       Mind you, this was from a man who spent no time in the military, no time in the reserves, no time in the National Guard, no time in ROTC, and was not directly related to anyone in any of the above categories.  So, his idea of what the reality of the Marines was, was based on old movies. That's why the Way Corps didn't actually RESEMBLE anyone's genuine military experience.   But, really, what else is new?  vpw always had an excuse not to do what he told others to do.  Even when he told lcm to do the opposite, he did it again.   When it was time to address a crowd in the rain, vpw said "if the crowd gets wet, so do you." The way to cement this would be to step out and introduce lcm.  Instead, vpw stayed dry and shoved lcm out.  vpw told people to hitchhike, and didn't do it himself. Sent people on runs- rode around on Cushmans and golf carts. Told people to go witnessing-and said an evangelist's job wasn't to get out there and witness, but to get others to go out there and witness. My, how CONVENIENT.  Never did show chapter and verse on that one, though... The real apostle Paul risked his life getting out there.

[Taxidev]

On 5/27/2018 at 9:01 PM, skyrider said:

Keeping on the railroad tracks of wierwille............Moynihans, Forts, Horneys, and others want to keep the locomotive churning down those tracks.  They can't abandon wierwille or else they lose the indoctrinated-followers that are institutionalized to the cult lifestyle and nostalgia.  Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails.  Else, they'd have to look in the mirror and SEE WHAT UTTER FAILURES THEY'VE BECOME.

sky, what a crystal clear picture you have drawn with these words.  I believe this paragraph, more than anything else I have seen here at GSC concerning the R&R group founders, explains the response we received to my email of issues from some of you here. 

All I can do is hang my head, shaking it lightly, in utter disappointment.  I have many friends involved with them.  I am not actually involved, but I do listen to the phone teachings.  My interest in them is severely diminished.

"Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails."  Yes, they all seem to be doing that, including my friends.

[skyrider]

The splinter groups will continue to market the wierwille mystique and his legacy..........to bring notoriety to their doorstep and money to their coffers. 

Wierwille was a showman and a storyteller.  He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse.  He traveled up and down the highways searching for the new shtick that would arrest the public's curiosity and attention.......wherein, he could run full-throttle with his narcissism.  From retreats to seminars to camps farthest out, wierwille was intently looking for a pyramid of his own making.

The youth had the time, and zeal, to make things happen.  And, when the youth leaders [Way West / Way East] surged forward with throngs of people, wierwille walked into those meetings and power-grabbed their movements for himself.  The revisionist history that accompanied his "God-ordained greatness" was a slick ploy to build this mystique of "the man of God." Yet, in reality.......Wierwille's legacy is one of stealing, exploiting, and destroying others for his own opportunity. 

Splinter groups need to keep the wierwille-mystique in place........thus, they will not abandon him, nor will they come to GSC and step into the area of open discussions on the matter.  Mystique only plays well in shades of grey.......not in open sunlight.

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

27 minutes ago, skyrider said:

The splinter groups will continue to market the wierwille mystique and his legacy..........to bring notoriety to their doorstep and money to their coffers. 

Wierwille was a showman and a storyteller.  He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse.  He traveled up and down the highways searching for the new shtick that would arrest the public's curiosity and attention.......wherein, he could run full-throttle with his narcissism.  From retreats to seminars to camps farthest out, wierwille was intently looking for a pyramid of his own making.

The youth had the time, and zeal, to make things happen.  And, when the youth leaders [Way West / Way East] surged forward with throngs of people, wierwille walked into those meetings and power-grabbed their movements for himself.  The revisionist history that accompanied his "God-ordained greatness" was a slick ploy to build this mystique of "the man of God." Yet, in reality.......Wierwille's legacy is one of stealing, exploiting, and destroying others for his own opportunity. 

Splinter groups need to keep the wierwille-mystique in place........thus, they will not abandon him, nor will they come to GSC and step into the area of open discussions on the matter.  Mystique only plays well in shades of grey.......not in open sunlight.

 

Sky, 

[mchud11]

Watered Garden said:
 Waysider probably remembers the time in Fellow Laborers when we were all jerked out of bed in the middle of the night and told to report to limb in the middle of the night. This was a twenty minute drive. Got there, were screamed at by the limb leader, J** M**ne, and dismissed en masse. Nowhere to go, no idea why. Weighed in the balance of an unknown judge and found wanting in unknown ways for unknown reasons. We were later reinstated, except for a few hapless souls.
Waysider said:
Later, I realized the purpose of this little exercise was to keep us off balance and fearful, dependent and confused.
It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience.

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It is the case that the Fl's were called to Limb HQ's very late in the evenning.  It is the case that everyone was shocked, including myself.  This post of mine is the most complete record of that evenning.

J. Mil@@ dismissed the FL program for two reasons:  alcohol consumption and too much sex. If memory serves me, the dismissal was shortly after everyone in the program returned from "Christmas"...the FL program had a Christmas break.  Regardless if my recollection of the time of the dismissal, I am very sure I know what J. Mil@@ was talking about.  There was alcohol consumption, against the rules of the program...Secondly, that year of the program there were many first year FL's who were married, many children.  

Within a half an hour of the dismissal, I convinced my fiance, Barbara S@@ St@@a@t, to drive me back to Limb HQs.  With her in hand, I knocked on J. Mil@@'s door and was invited in, was invited to sit down in his office. I then told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched Ms. St@@a@t.  
I was diagnosed in 1999 as a Bi Polar, as having a mental illness.  The Dr. said it started to develop when I was 13 years of age or so, just not diagnosed for 33 years.  What I am saying is that I was mentally ill throughout my TWI experience.  To this day, I cannot explain why I told J. Mil@@ that I had inappropriately touched my fiance, I hadn't...being mentally ill, what else could be the reason.  Anyway, immediately after I stated the touching, J. Mil@@ called the FL mens coordinator, asking the coordinator if he wanted to re-start the program the next night.  My fiance and I saw the call being made, we both heard the contents of the call.  The program did restart the next evenning....nothing has been left out of the dismissal Waysider and Watered Garden have referred to...