That's going to be difficult, for a specific reason, and I shall explain why,.
A) Can I get it from twi? NO. They're trying to erase any vestiges of lcm''s memory. His VANITY PROJECT was probably first on the list of things to go. So, they don't have it.
B) Can I get it from ex-twi? Well, that raises the question- Who would have it?
The majority of ex-wayfers who would hang onto something, get digital copies of something, copy something, and so on, are nostalgics. twi nostalgics froze their memory of twi. They only remember the good times, and those good times are almost all of the 70s and NEVER include negative memories of vpw- and in fact bleach those out when they intrude. The Mayberry they constructed is an idyllic version of twi in the 70s where nothing was wrong and so nothing was vpw's fault. They're hanging onto that until death, and some are indoctrinating their kids in the same thing (a few of them, at least.)
Those people know things blew up in the 80s. They erase all the crimes of vpw that came to light then. The troubles of the 80s are entirely blamed on lcm. If not for lcm, and if vpw had lived another decade, their 80s would have continued just as fabulous as their 70s (at least in their imaginations.) So, it's all lcm's fault.
Would THOSE people immortalize anything loy did? Obviously not.
The ones who got on with their lives generally dumped their twi stuff across the decades.
That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think you're going to find a copy. Few would have a motive to make or keep one.
A good analysis WordWolf. I for one was one of those that dumped twi stuff and encouraged friends and family to do the same. But now I'd really like to find a copy somewhere out there. I'm hoping that either:
A) there's an archivist-true-at-heart that had the foresight to store and catalog all material for scholarly pursuit at a later date (just to be clear, by scholarly I mean the study of cults generally not religious study of the faithful)
or
B) someone never got around to offloading everything despite their best intentions and there's still a tape buried in a storage locker that they wouldn't mind digging up and mailing my way for $100.
Does anybody know of any effort to collect LCM material in opposition to TWI's attempts to erase that history?
Ah yes, Twinky, the ash heap of history. I think thats where mine landed too. Lots of folks buying TWI stuff up on Ebay at the time, but seemed like they might be using it for nefarious purposes so I think virtually everything went into the wood stove or the trash. Had no idea I'd ever want to see any of it again, but here I am.
Did it even exist on VHS? I have a beta copy but am not parting with it. God told me Beta is the way to go ;)
It DEFINITELY existed in VHS. My family NEVER went Beta, so it wasn't until twi gave up and began releasing VHS videos (probably late 1987 or early 1988) that I got any VIDEOS from twi. I didn't get much- WC's "Fundamentals of Biblical Research" I had as audiocassettes and as VHS, and I had AOS. Both of them used the labels from the Beta versions- the AOS VHS case contained a label that was too small to fit normally. But I am 100% sure I OWNED the VHS version once, and even played it at home for non-twi people at least once.
EDIT- If you look at Nova3200's photo, you'll see what I mean, a VHS case with a Beta label that doesn't fit like most VHS labels did.
When AOS was current, we were all taught that a soldier kills an opponent, but an athlete tries to outdistance an opponent, therefore, calling believers athletes is better than calling them soldiers. Well, after further review...I disagree. Killing is not the only thing a soldier does.
My mother was put in foster care when she was 12. After 2 years of 3 foster homes that didn't work out, she was placed in one that did. This family had a 5 year old boy. My mother certainly helped raise him. He grew up, became a pilot, was shot down over Germany in 1944, and spent 14 months in a prison camp. I never met the guy; he died a year before I was born, but I've seen letters he wrote to my mom.
He said that with the exception of a month or so in which food was in very short supply, he was not treated that badly in the prison camp. The German soldiers didn't kill him, they held him captive. Whatever he did to oppose Germany, he could not do while he was in the camp. This reminds me of 2 scriptures: the one that says Christ led captivity captive, and the one that says he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way.
Just as those German soldiers held my mom's foster brother captive so that he was limited in what he could do to oppose Germany, we believers, who are the lights of the world, limit what the adversary can do to oppose, not only God's people, but the whole world. This strikes me much more like military than athletic. About athletic...
In the world, athletes get a lot of praise. Not just Tom Brady praise, but even kids who plays T ball will get all kinds of love from whomever is supervising them. Also, in the world, athletes who play team sports have to compete with their own teammates for playing time. Some of those athletes are willing to do ethically questionable things to 'outdistance' their own teammates.
It seems to me that even before VP fell asleep, the tone of the ministry morphed from walking in love and being kind one to another, into judging each others' flesh thinking it was walking by the spirit. AOS exacerbated this. I'm leaning toward concluding that this was the game changer. I even suspect that LCM really believed that by enforcing the strict legalistic dogma which included the debt purge, homo purge, and unproductive evil purge in 1995, that God would give the increase and the numbers would come back to the ministry just like in the 70s.
Soldiers kill, a POW died, . . . but VP fell asleep. Quite a change in tone there.
My mom's foster brother didn't die as a pow. I was born in 1954. His group of pows were freed by Russian soldiers in 1945. He later fought as a pilot in Korea. That didn't kill him, either. Ironically, he died when a cargo plane he was flying went down in the Atlantic.
quote:
"In the world" ... athletes cheat ... as opposed to a place where this does not happen?
My point exactly. AOS implied that athletes are better spiritually than soldiers.
Soldiers kill, a POW died, . . . but VP fell asleep. Quite a change in tone there.
My mom's foster brother didn't die as a pow. I was born in 1954. His group of pows were freed by Russian soldiers in 1945. He later fought as a pilot in Korea. That didn't kill him, either. Ironically, he died when a cargo plane he was flying went down in the Atlantic.
quote:
"In the world" ... athletes cheat ... as opposed to a place where this does not happen?
My point exactly. AOS implied that athletes are better spiritually than soldiers.
Recommended Posts
WordWolf
That's going to be difficult, for a specific reason, and I shall explain why,.
A) Can I get it from twi? NO. They're trying to erase any vestiges of lcm''s memory. His VANITY PROJECT was probably first on the list of things to go. So, they don't have it.
B) Can I get it from ex-twi? Well, that raises the question- Who would have it?
The majority of ex-wayfers who would hang onto something, get digital copies of something, copy something, and so on, are nostalgics. twi nostalgics froze their memory of twi. They only remember the good times, and those good times are almost all of the 70s and NEVER include negative memories of vpw- and in fact bleach those out when they intrude. The Mayberry they constructed is an idyllic version of twi in the 70s where nothing was wrong and so nothing was vpw's fault. They're hanging onto that until death, and some are indoctrinating their kids in the same thing (a few of them, at least.)
Those people know things blew up in the 80s. They erase all the crimes of vpw that came to light then. The troubles of the 80s are entirely blamed on lcm. If not for lcm, and if vpw had lived another decade, their 80s would have continued just as fabulous as their 70s (at least in their imaginations.) So, it's all lcm's fault.
Would THOSE people immortalize anything loy did? Obviously not.
The ones who got on with their lives generally dumped their twi stuff across the decades.
That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think you're going to find a copy. Few would have a motive to make or keep one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ExCorpsArtist
A good analysis WordWolf. I for one was one of those that dumped twi stuff and encouraged friends and family to do the same. But now I'd really like to find a copy somewhere out there. I'm hoping that either:
A) there's an archivist-true-at-heart that had the foresight to store and catalog all material for scholarly pursuit at a later date (just to be clear, by scholarly I mean the study of cults generally not religious study of the faithful)
or
B) someone never got around to offloading everything despite their best intentions and there's still a tape buried in a storage locker that they wouldn't mind digging up and mailing my way for $100.
Does anybody know of any effort to collect LCM material in opposition to TWI's attempts to erase that history?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Goodness me! $100? Pity I tossed mine into the woodburner years ago.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ExCorpsArtist
Ah yes, Twinky, the ash heap of history. I think thats where mine landed too. Lots of folks buying TWI stuff up on Ebay at the time, but seemed like they might be using it for nefarious purposes so I think virtually everything went into the wood stove or the trash. Had no idea I'd ever want to see any of it again, but here I am.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nova32000
I have it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ExCorpsArtist
AMAZING! Looking forward to working out payment/shipment. Thanks Nova!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
does this mean I don't need to dig out my copy ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
does nova's copy mean you don't need me to dig out mine , excorpsartist ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ExCorpsArtist
Copy received! Thanks for the help, y'all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Enjoy, Ex!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jonathan Schwartz
Are there any more copies out there? Would also be eager to purchase a copy if they exist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Junior Corps Surviver
Did it even exist on VHS? I have a beta copy but am not parting with it. God told me Beta is the way to go ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It DEFINITELY existed in VHS. My family NEVER went Beta, so it wasn't until twi gave up and began releasing VHS videos (probably late 1987 or early 1988) that I got any VIDEOS from twi. I didn't get much- WC's "Fundamentals of Biblical Research" I had as audiocassettes and as VHS, and I had AOS. Both of them used the labels from the Beta versions- the AOS VHS case contained a label that was too small to fit normally. But I am 100% sure I OWNED the VHS version once, and even played it at home for non-twi people at least once.
EDIT- If you look at Nova3200's photo, you'll see what I mean, a VHS case with a Beta label that doesn't fit like most VHS labels did.
Edited by WordWolf,
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Junior Corps Surviver
Ah. by 88 I was gone. The revelation must have changed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mindy
Anyone still have a copy of AOS? Would be interested in seeing this craziness from my childhood again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
This is on YouTube but its not in English:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
That's alright. It doesn't make any sense in English, either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rejoice
OMG, I needed that laugh after paying taxes!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
When AOS was current, we were all taught that a soldier kills an opponent, but an athlete tries to outdistance an opponent, therefore, calling believers athletes is better than calling them soldiers. Well, after further review...I disagree. Killing is not the only thing a soldier does.
My mother was put in foster care when she was 12. After 2 years of 3 foster homes that didn't work out, she was placed in one that did. This family had a 5 year old boy. My mother certainly helped raise him. He grew up, became a pilot, was shot down over Germany in 1944, and spent 14 months in a prison camp. I never met the guy; he died a year before I was born, but I've seen letters he wrote to my mom.
He said that with the exception of a month or so in which food was in very short supply, he was not treated that badly in the prison camp. The German soldiers didn't kill him, they held him captive. Whatever he did to oppose Germany, he could not do while he was in the camp. This reminds me of 2 scriptures: the one that says Christ led captivity captive, and the one that says he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way.
Just as those German soldiers held my mom's foster brother captive so that he was limited in what he could do to oppose Germany, we believers, who are the lights of the world, limit what the adversary can do to oppose, not only God's people, but the whole world. This strikes me much more like military than athletic. About athletic...
In the world, athletes get a lot of praise. Not just Tom Brady praise, but even kids who plays T ball will get all kinds of love from whomever is supervising them. Also, in the world, athletes who play team sports have to compete with their own teammates for playing time. Some of those athletes are willing to do ethically questionable things to 'outdistance' their own teammates.
It seems to me that even before VP fell asleep, the tone of the ministry morphed from walking in love and being kind one to another, into judging each others' flesh thinking it was walking by the spirit. AOS exacerbated this. I'm leaning toward concluding that this was the game changer. I even suspect that LCM really believed that by enforcing the strict legalistic dogma which included the debt purge, homo purge, and unproductive evil purge in 1995, that God would give the increase and the numbers would come back to the ministry just like in the 70s.
Didn't happen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Soldiers kill, a POW died, . . . but VP fell asleep. Quite a change in tone there.
"In the world" . . . athletes cheat . . . as opposed to a place where this does not happen?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
"it's a jungle out there."...Randy Newman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
quote:
Soldiers kill, a POW died, . . . but VP fell asleep. Quite a change in tone there.
My mom's foster brother didn't die as a pow. I was born in 1954. His group of pows were freed by Russian soldiers in 1945. He later fought as a pilot in Korea. That didn't kill him, either. Ironically, he died when a cargo plane he was flying went down in the Atlantic.
quote:
"In the world" ... athletes cheat ... as opposed to a place where this does not happen?
My point exactly. AOS implied that athletes are better spiritually than soldiers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Ah, good 'ole Russians.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Anyway, back to the topic:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.