Juanita Carey! Now THERE’S a flash from the past! She was very close to Peter J. Wade, kinda like “his” Donna Randall. She was a serious student of textual criticism in Koine Greek. She also wrote 2 of those 56 “collaterals” I told you we received when I first took piffle in 01/1971. Peter J. Wade was credited with 3 of those collaterals. So, roughly 10% of the 56 printed collaterals given with piffle were written by Wade and Carey. Carey got run off when Wade was.
I vividly remember sitting in at a corpse meeting (2nd & 3rd) in the spring of 1972 in the BRC, where dic and coward read a series of letter exchanges between them and Peter Wade who was back in Adelaide, Australia by that time. Those exchanges were nasty and mutually accusatory. I was in OH working on the first PDSTRO album, and when I finished my tracks, I went to HQ for an “official” visit. I was a full-time employee area leader for Brooklyn/Queens in NY at that time, working with Steve & Laurie Perez out of The Way of Long Island. That was 2 months before the wierwille putsch which annexed both The Way East and The Way West in one fell swoop in March, 1972. An interesting side note RE: the Rye AC 1972; I was assigned to pick up a Dr. and Mrs. James John, at the Indian Mission to the UN in Manhattan, NY, and take them to a dinner reception at the home of John and Julie Lowery, in their home in Rye, NY prior to the opening session of the AC, in the main sanctuary of the Rye Presbyterian Church the following evening. I was told that these two diplomats met vp during his trip to India in 1956, and were active now with the Indian National Church, and representing “Indian Christian interests” at the Indian Mission to the UN. This was confirmed by Dr. and Mrs. John during our ride together from Manhattan to Rye.
Are The Dead Alive Now, as well as the entire “seed-boy” crap came from Bullinger’s article in his Research Journal, “Of Things To Come”, entitled “The Witch of Endor.....”, along with a BG’s teachings on devil spirits in his Gifts of the Spirit class. Dictor had all 23 volumes of “Of Things To Come”! Donna Randall showed me dic’s personal research library. It was in a wall safe in his office. I had access to them a couple of times, but that didn’t last after I asked some questions that Moggie-Pooh couldn’t answer. Dic stole almost all of Bullinger’s works, then sold them in the bookstore to validate that his “research” was original, and that Bullinger proved it. He even said once, “ I believe Bullinger would have gotten to Jesus Christ is not God had he lived long enough.” LOL! Same thing with RTHST. After even just a brief investigation of Bullinger writings with dictor’s “writings”, it becomes almost immediately obvious, that there are LENGTHY sections of many Bullinger works which are lifted almost verbatim by dic in many of his “writings”, but most definitely in his so-called “research”, and ALL the corpse night teachings on Romans, Ephesians, Thessalonians, and I&II Timothy. BTW, da forehead did the same thing with his “Lies & Deception” book too. The entire basis of his 8 great statements is lifted from appendices in Bullinger’s Companion Bible. Like faddah-in-da-woid, like son! LOL!
I remember wierwille saying something like that "He even said once, I believe Bullinger would have gotten to Jesus Christ is not God had he lived long enough.” – maybe it was at Advanced Class ’79.
== == == ==
and I remember another thing he said in reference to Bullinger – maybe it was in that same setting – can’t recall his exact wording but it was something like “ you can squeeze the Word so hard that you’ll have error running out through your fingers.”
there’s some sneaky things about wierwille’s somewhat derogative statement of Bullinger:
- criticize and detract from one of his biggest plagiarized sources…so much for the “mathematical exactness and scientific precision” of “The Word”…
- as much as wierwille twisted and mangled the interpretation of the Bible – and yet elevated himself so much above Bullinger is like Jack the Ripper saying he’s a better surgeon than any qualified medical practitioner...wierwille always had a tendency to present himself as head and shoulders above many of the people he referred to - like he was so far ahead of them in rightly dividing the Bible... and maybe even more importantly supposedly having God as his own personal tutor.
I seriously doubt if wierwille could have been intellectually objective in looking at another person’s work - let alone grasping the salient points – I could be wrong but I suspect his intent to steal their work and cover his tracks was the overriding principle to thwart such "insignificant issues".
I guess he figured he had more to gain by stealing and lying than by truly learning and being an honest teacher... or maybe he just misunderstood the "make it your own" idea of becoming thoroughly knowledgeable of studied material...he took that literally (< note the double entendre - includes plagiarism ) - - and put his name on it
Juanita Carey! Now THERE’S a flash from the past! She was very close to Peter J. Wade, kinda like “his” Donna Randall. She was a serious student of textual criticism in Koine Greek. She also wrote 2 of those 56 “collaterals” I told you we received when I first took piffle in 01/1971. Peter J. Wade was credited with 3 of those collaterals. So, roughly 10% of the 56 printed collaterals given with piffle were written by Wade and Carey. Carey got run off when Wade was.
I vividly remember sitting in at a corpse meeting (2nd & 3rd) in the spring of 1972 in the BRC, where dic and coward read a series of letter exchanges between them and Peter Wade who was back in Adelaide, Australia by that time. Those exchanges were nasty and mutually accusatory. I was in OH working on the first PDSTRO album, and when I finished my tracks, I went to HQ for an “official” visit. I was a full-time employee area leader for Brooklyn/Queens in NY at that time, working with Steve & Laurie Perez out of The Way of Long Island. That was 2 months before the wierwille putsch which annexed both The Way East and The Way West in one fell swoop in March, 1972. An interesting side note RE: the Rye AC 1972; I was assigned to pick up a Dr. and Mrs. James John, at the Indian Mission to the UN in Manhattan, NY, and take them to a dinner reception at the home of John and Julie Lowery, in their home in Rye, NY prior to the opening session of the AC, in the main sanctuary of the Rye Presbyterian Church the following evening. I was told that these two diplomats met vp during his trip to India in 1956, and were active now with the Indian National Church, and representing “Indian Christian interests” at the Indian Mission to the UN. This was confirmed by Dr. and Mrs. John during our ride together from Manhattan to Rye.
Don’t Worry,
I really appreciate all the intriguing details you’ve been posting about the humble - naw , scratch that - I mean bumble beginnings of a cult.
and thanks to WordWolf, Chockfull, Socks and everyone else who have commented
Juanita Carey! Now THERE’S a flash from the past! She was very close to Peter J. Wade, kinda like “his” Donna Randall. She was a serious student of textual criticism in Koine Greek. She also wrote 2 of those 56 “collaterals” I told you we received when I first took piffle in 01/1971. Peter J. Wade was credited with 3 of those collaterals. So, roughly 10% of the 56 printed collaterals given with piffle were written by Wade and Carey. Carey got run off when Wade was.
I vividly remember sitting in at a corpse meeting (2nd & 3rd) in the spring of 1972 in the BRC, where dic and coward read a series of letter exchanges between them and Peter Wade who was back in Adelaide, Australia by that time. Those exchanges were nasty and mutually accusatory. I was in OH working on the first PDSTRO album, and when I finished my tracks, I went to HQ for an “official” visit. I was a full-time employee area leader for Brooklyn/Queens in NY at that time, working with Steve & Laurie Perez out of The Way of Long Island. That was 2 months before the wierwille putsch which annexed both The Way East and The Way West in one fell swoop in March, 1972. An interesting side note RE: the Rye AC 1972; I was assigned to pick up a Dr. and Mrs. James John, at the Indian Mission to the UN in Manhattan, NY, and take them to a dinner reception at the home of John and Julie Lowery, in their home in Rye, NY prior to the opening session of the AC, in the main sanctuary of the Rye Presbyterian Church the following evening. I was told that these two diplomats met vp during his trip to India in 1956, and were active now with the Indian National Church, and representing “Indian Christian interests” at the Indian Mission to the UN. This was confirmed by Dr. and Mrs. John during our ride together from Manhattan to Rye.
It's gotten to be that we've seen so many instances of vpw shown to have lied about things that it actually counts as news when he's found to have told the truth about something. So vpw actually went to India. It would not have shocked me terribly to find out the whole India trip was a hoax with doctored photos attached to it.
"We disagree on this doctrine, but if he'd lived long enough, he would have agreed with me."
"We disagreed on doctrine publicly, but PRIVATELY, he said he really agreed with me but didn't want to lose his job so publicly he still disagreed with me."
"We disagreed on doctrine most of his life, but on his deathbed he changed his mind and agreed with me."
3 different, dishonest ways to treat disagreeing with someone you respect. Conmen pull this, and vpw pulled this, although I have no need to repeat myself.
Lamsa grew up in Eastern Turkey, not Palestine. different cultures. Likewise India, totally different Asian culture, even different from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.Mega egos just like Weird Willie.
2nd part of quote relates to Pillai, former Hindu converted to Mar Thoma form of Christianity
I was recently doing a study on the tithe, and came across some works by Ernest L Martin. For anyone who is not acquainted with his work, you can find his name in "JCOPS". He isn't actually cited there, but at least he's in the bibliography. I think I've mentioned this somewhere here at GSC before.
But, I just remembered hearing in a class - I can't remember if VP or Craig was the teacher - something to the effect of "through computers and astronomy we have determined the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ". Not an actual quote. I was thinking the phraseology implied that TWI determined this, and that is exactly what I had thought when I first heard this. Now I find it was actually Ernest Martin who figured this out, and published his findings quite a while before TWI put it in a class.
Does anyone else remember hearing this concept in a class?
I was recently doing a study on the tithe, and came across some works by Ernest L Martin. For anyone who is not acquainted with his work, you can find his name in "JCOPS". He isn't actually cited there, but at least he's in the bibliography. I think I've mentioned this somewhere here at GSC before.
But, I just remembered hearing in a class - I can't remember if VP or Craig was the teacher - something to the effect of "through computers and astronomy we have determined the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ". Not an actual quote. I was thinking the phraseology implied that TWI determined this, and that is exactly what I had thought when I first heard this. Now I find it was actually Ernest Martin who figured this out, and published his findings quite a while before TWI put it in a class.
Does anyone else remember hearing this concept in a class?
The original dissemination of the material was in Christianity Today's article (in 1976) titled "“The Celestial Pageantry Dating Christ’s Birth." He continued with this in his 1978 book, The Birth of Christ Recalculated. JCOPS and JCOP were books written by the twi research dept, to which vpw added his name and a few words of introduction and a dedication. (Personally, I think that takes gall, but he's not the first to pull that one.) Both of those books were far superior to anything vpw was involved with, and both had bibliographies. Martin was correctly credited in JCOPS.
I didn't hear it, but that eliminates the vpw stuff and the Intermediate Class (and the TIP class.) Since they had access to the material as of 1976 when everybody else did, that suggests that any class covering it would have been filmed/recorded after 1976. It would not surprise me if lcm said that, not even aware he was stealing the credit for all the work for twi from Martin. lcm didn't see the same reality as the rest of us all through the 1990s and through his ouster from twi.
BTW, anyone who wants the full text of the article and lives in the US, they might be able to get it. What you do is walk into a local library, and consult "the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature"- looking at Christianity Today and checking for Ernest L. Martin's article in 1976 with the name I posted above. Then you'll have the correct date-issue, and I forget if the page#s are included. Either way, if the library is well-stocked on periodicals, you can then request that issue on microfilm (or microfiche, depending on their system). Most of them will have a reading-gadget that will allow you to print out a photocopy (in negative form, IIRC) of the pages you want, for some change. If your local libraries don't have it, I'm sure any college library would have it. (I looked up articles in that magazine when I was in college, and I didn't go to an ivy-league school.)
Didn't you just today claim (on another thread) that you had never been exposed to VP?
He probably means he was never in vpw's physical presence while the man drew breath. That's not the same as his taped stuff, which is STILL being disseminated in one form or another.
BTW, even he never saw the taped stuff, he was exposed to vpw's influence because that infected all sorts of twi people, which was the idea.
He probably means he was never in vpw's physical presence while the man drew breath. That's not the same as his taped stuff, which is STILL being disseminated in one form or another.
BTW, even he never saw the taped stuff, he was exposed to vpw's influence because that infected all sorts of twi people, which was the idea.
You might be right, but I figure it's up to the Taxi man to clarify for himself.
I remember one of his posts stating that Taxi first took Piffle in 1995. He said it was the only time he had seen dictor’s original flick as Da Forehead had replaced it with his YouTube video of private interpretation, homophobia, misogyny, and rambling insanity before the next “class” came together in Taxi’s location. That’s how he is aware of both dictor and da forehead. Hey....a new sitcom: Dictor and Da Forehead! LOL!
I remember one of his posts stating that Taxi first took Piffle in 1995. He said it was the only time he had seen dictor’s original flick as Da Forehead had replaced it with his YouTube video of private interpretation, homophobia, misogyny, and rambling insanity before the next “class” came together in Taxi’s location. That’s how he is aware of both dictor and da forehead. Hey....a new sitcom: Dictor and Da Forehead! LOL!
The new book is probably Martin's best work on the subject. However, if someone's trying to retrace exactly all vpw's steps, they'd probably want to read the article, not the completed book. That's why I brought it up.
There are no “VPW’s steps to trace! It was Peter Bernegger and John Crouch who first introduced Ernest Martin and his astronomical calculations and research into the timing of the birth of Christ. Peter Bernegger was admitted into the 8th corpse along with two other men who later became his unfortunate compatriots in TWIt’s first PUBLIC execution, excommunication, and mark and avoid procedures which were faithfully and more forcefully applied as the years rolled on, and taken to their ultimate, perverted, vengeful conclusion under the reign of their second King, the proud and ridiculous King Okie Da Forehead until he became too psychotic and insane to even keep around as some worthless old drooling emeritus wannabe. LOL! Peter already had a degree and maybe even a Masters in Astronomy, and it was he who introduced Ernest Martin to TWIt. He went on to get a PhD and is a professor at a university some where. I have never spoken to Bernegger or Fanning since those meetings were cancelled. I have been in touch with Marty, Dave W. (now sadly deceased and very missed by many) and John Crouch during the years past-TWIt.
Anyway.....the other two guys were John Fanning (some self-trained Greek and research expert with a background (and now PhD) in Psychology or Psychiatry), and Marty McCrae, who at that time had all ready attained a Masters in Middle Eastern Languages, particularly Aramaic and Syriac and Hebrew. He eventually went on to receive his PhD also, and teaches at McGill University in Canada IIRC.
These three men were uniquely “assigned” to a spayshull project in their very first weeks at Emporia by dictor himself. They were given the “opportunity and privilege” of doing research on the dating of the birth of Christ and to submit it to Cummins and the Research Dept. as an “underlying” text for dic’s new book “he was working”, JCOPS. I was contacted along with Schoenheit, David Wilensky, and John Crouch as we each had specific “knowledge and abilities” in areas necessary to the work in progress. Schoenheit and myself on Old T. History, and symbolism/foreshadowing of Christ in the construction and services of The Tabernacle, The Feasts, the Hebrew Liturgical Calendar and the Lunar Calendar dating, and The Temple and Priesthood. David Wilensky was a math and science genius who eventually wound up working for the DOD as a “scientific analyst” on highly classified government intelligence gathering via satellite and U-2 aerial photo and other data for the NSA, CIA, and FBI. John Crouch had an advanced degree in Meterology, and eventually, as a member of the Research Dept., was one of the prime movers behind the writing and publication of JCOPS when it finally came out.
I was at Emporia teaching on The Tabernacle when the public execution went down. I had twice had a meeting with Fanning, Bernegger, McCrae, Wilensky and Crouch (all first year in-Rez 8th corpse) cancelled by LCM who was also at Empiria during that time. No reasons were given. Then, without notice, my evening class on The Tabernacle was superseded by an all corpse meeting phone hook-up for all the “campuses” with dictor and LCM that night instead. THAT was the night of the public execution of Bernegger, Fanning and McRae....the three amigos of seed boyz. LOL.
As I said, I was at Emporia for this kangaroo court, and watched in utter disbelief at what was going on! I was friendly with both Crouch and Wilensky prior to their entrance into the corpse. So, I met briefly and secretly with each of them wondering how we didn’t get the axe with them. We agreed we were fortunate for some reason and that’s the last time we ever spoke of it together.
Dictor NEVER read ANY of Ernest Martin’s work! He was too dumb, just like his C- performance at Lakeland Mission House College years before. As usual he had to have Walter do everything on it and always had Cummins, Schoenheit, and Crouch to translate and explain anything dic said he wanted to know “more about”. He never even read the final manuscript, and the only thing in the entire book he wrote was the dedication at the beginning. That’s it!! THAT’S also why there won’t be any “VPW’s steps” to trace anywhere on this book. There weren’t any!! LOL!
There are no “VPW’s steps to trace! It was Peter Bernegger and John Crouch who first introduced Ernest Martin and his astronomical calculations and research into the timing of the birth of Christ. Peter Bernegger was admitted into the 8th corpse along with two other men who later became his unfortunate compatriots in TWIt’s first PUBLIC execution, excommunication, and mark and avoid procedures which were faithfully and more forcefully applied as the years rolled on, and taken to their ultimate, perverted, vengeful conclusion under the reign of their second King, the proud and ridiculous King Okie Da Forehead until he became too psychotic and insane to even keep around as some worthless old drooling emeritus wannabe. LOL! Peter already had a degree and maybe even a Masters in Astronomy, and it was he who introduced Ernest Martin to TWIt. He went on to get a PhD and is a professor at a university some where. I have never spoken to Bernegger or Fanning since those meetings were cancelled. I have been in touch with Marty, Dave W. (now sadly deceased and very missed by many) and John Crouch during the years past-TWIt.
Anyway.....the other two guys were John Fanning (some self-trained Greek and research expert with a background (and now PhD) in Psychology or Psychiatry), and Marty McCrae, who at that time had all ready attained a Masters in Middle Eastern Languages, particularly Aramaic and Syriac and Hebrew. He eventually went on to receive his PhD also, and teaches at McGill University in Canada IIRC.
These three men were uniquely “assigned” to a spayshull project in their very first weeks at Emporia by dictor himself. They were given the “opportunity and privilege” of doing research on the dating of the birth of Christ and to submit it to Cummins and the Research Dept. as an “underlying” text for dic’s new book “he was working”, JCOPS. I was contacted along with Schoenheit, David Wilensky, and John Crouch as we each had specific “knowledge and abilities” in areas necessary to the work in progress. Schoenheit and myself on Old T. History, and symbolism/foreshadowing of Christ in the construction and services of The Tabernacle, The Feasts, the Hebrew Liturgical Calendar and the Lunar Calendar dating, and The Temple and Priesthood. David Wilensky was a math and science genius who eventually wound up working for the DOD as a “scientific analyst” on highly classified government intelligence gathering via satellite and U-2 aerial photo and other data for the NSA, CIA, and FBI. John Crouch had an advanced degree in Meterology, and eventually, as a member of the Research Dept., was one of the prime movers behind the writing and publication of JCOPS when it finally came out.
I was at Emporia teaching on The Tabernacle when the public execution went down. I had twice had a meeting with Fanning, Bernegger, McCrae, Wilensky and Crouch (all first year in-Rez 8th corpse) cancelled by LCM who was also at Empiria during that time. No reasons were given. Then, without notice, my evening class on The Tabernacle was superseded by an all corpse meeting phone hook-up for all the “campuses” with dictor and LCM that night instead. THAT was the night of the public execution of Bernegger, Fanning and McRae....the three amigos of seed boyz. LOL.
As I said, I was at Emporia for this kangaroo court, and watched in utter disbelief at what was going on! I was friendly with both Crouch and Wilensky prior to their entrance into the corpse. So, I met briefly and secretly with each of them wondering how we didn’t get the axe with them. We agreed we were fortunate for some reason and that’s the last time we ever spoke of it together.
Dictor NEVER read ANY of Ernest Martin’s work! He was too dumb, just like his C- performance at Lakeland Mission House College years before. As usual he had to have Walter do everything on it and always had Cummins, Schoenheit, and Crouch to translate and explain anything dic said he wanted to know “more about”. He never even read the final manuscript, and the only thing in the entire book he wrote was the dedication at the beginning. That’s it!! THAT’S also why there won’t be any “VPW’s steps” to trace anywhere on this book. There weren’t any!! LOL!
Thanks for reading.
DWBH, thanks for the background information. The one book "TWI" book, I enjoyed reading was "JCOPS." I loved it!! It was well-written, and very educational. I can't believe VPW kicked the three writers out; they were very bright, talented men. I am so happy for them, that they went on, and had successfull teaching carrerrs. Unlike VPW, they were the real deal, and were able to teach others. Good for them.
Dictor NEVER read ANY of Ernest Martin’s work! He was too dumb, just like his C- performance at Lakeland Mission House College years before. As usual he had to have Walter do everything on it and always had Cummins, Schoenheit, and Crouch to translate and explain anything dic said he wanted to know “more about”. He never even read the final manuscript, and the only thing in the entire book he wrote was the dedication at the beginning. That’s it!! THAT’S also why there won’t be any “VPW’s steps” to trace anywhere on this book. There weren’t any!! LOL!
This is disgusting! It churns my stomach to read this. To think I was impressed at all the work VPW put into this book...
i appreciate your comments. However, i am completely confused as to why you seem to support the incredibly self-serving PI Of Gallagher and your RnR heroes. Why? They are blatantly self-serving, and biblically so inaccurate and self-deluded, that I have no idea why you grant them ANY credibility or respect! They are hopelessly, conscience, hubristic, liars! What don’t YOU understand about that??
This is disgusting! It churns my stomach to read this. To think I was impressed at all the work VPW put into this book...
You’ll find that when DWBH tells you/us about these individuals, that he’s telling it like it is. No BS. He has no axe to grind. Just protecting people from the madness that is twi.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi Greasespotters! Allow me to clue you in on a FACT: dictor Paul couldn’t write his way through high school! At his very best, he was capable of writing at an 8th grade level. Remember all those
chockfull
Great information here. I was just reflecting on EW Bullinger as one of VP's most prolific source of plagiarized material. He lived December 15, 1837 – June 6, 1913 Bullinger died in 1913, mean
WordWolf
Now, there's this fiction that goes around-popular with a few handfuls of people- that vpw acknowledged his sources. That's easy to dismiss. 1) To give proper- as in LEGAL and MORAL- acknowled
DontWorryBeHappy
Juanita Carey! Now THERE’S a flash from the past! She was very close to Peter J. Wade, kinda like “his” Donna Randall. She was a serious student of textual criticism in Koine Greek. She also wrote 2 of those 56 “collaterals” I told you we received when I first took piffle in 01/1971. Peter J. Wade was credited with 3 of those collaterals. So, roughly 10% of the 56 printed collaterals given with piffle were written by Wade and Carey. Carey got run off when Wade was.
I vividly remember sitting in at a corpse meeting (2nd & 3rd) in the spring of 1972 in the BRC, where dic and coward read a series of letter exchanges between them and Peter Wade who was back in Adelaide, Australia by that time. Those exchanges were nasty and mutually accusatory. I was in OH working on the first PDSTRO album, and when I finished my tracks, I went to HQ for an “official” visit. I was a full-time employee area leader for Brooklyn/Queens in NY at that time, working with Steve & Laurie Perez out of The Way of Long Island. That was 2 months before the wierwille putsch which annexed both The Way East and The Way West in one fell swoop in March, 1972. An interesting side note RE: the Rye AC 1972; I was assigned to pick up a Dr. and Mrs. James John, at the Indian Mission to the UN in Manhattan, NY, and take them to a dinner reception at the home of John and Julie Lowery, in their home in Rye, NY prior to the opening session of the AC, in the main sanctuary of the Rye Presbyterian Church the following evening. I was told that these two diplomats met vp during his trip to India in 1956, and were active now with the Indian National Church, and representing “Indian Christian interests” at the Indian Mission to the UN. This was confirmed by Dr. and Mrs. John during our ride together from Manhattan to Rye.
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T-Bone
I remember wierwille saying something like that "He even said once, I believe Bullinger would have gotten to Jesus Christ is not God had he lived long enough.” – maybe it was at Advanced Class ’79.
== == == ==
and I remember another thing he said in reference to Bullinger – maybe it was in that same setting – can’t recall his exact wording but it was something like “ you can squeeze the Word so hard that you’ll have error running out through your fingers.”
there’s some sneaky things about wierwille’s somewhat derogative statement of Bullinger:
- criticize and detract from one of his biggest plagiarized sources…so much for the “mathematical exactness and scientific precision” of “The Word”…
- as much as wierwille twisted and mangled the interpretation of the Bible – and yet elevated himself so much above Bullinger is like Jack the Ripper saying he’s a better surgeon than any qualified medical practitioner...wierwille always had a tendency to present himself as head and shoulders above many of the people he referred to - like he was so far ahead of them in rightly dividing the Bible... and maybe even more importantly supposedly having God as his own personal tutor.
I seriously doubt if wierwille could have been intellectually objective in looking at another person’s work - let alone grasping the salient points – I could be wrong but I suspect his intent to steal their work and cover his tracks was the overriding principle to thwart such "insignificant issues".
I guess he figured he had more to gain by stealing and lying than by truly learning and being an honest teacher... or maybe he just misunderstood the "make it your own" idea of becoming thoroughly knowledgeable of studied material...he took that literally (< note the double entendre - includes plagiarism
) - - and put his name on it 
Edited by T-Boneclarity & typos
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T-Bone
Don’t Worry,
I really appreciate all the intriguing details you’ve been posting about the humble - naw , scratch that - I mean bumble beginnings of a cult.
and thanks to WordWolf, Chockfull, Socks and everyone else who have commented
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WordWolf
It's gotten to be that we've seen so many instances of vpw shown to have lied about things that it actually counts as news when he's found to have told the truth about something. So vpw actually went to India. It would not have shocked me terribly to find out the whole India trip was a hoax with doctored photos attached to it.
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WordWolf
"We disagree on this doctrine, but if he'd lived long enough, he would have agreed with me."
"We disagreed on doctrine publicly, but PRIVATELY, he said he really agreed with me but didn't want to lose his job so publicly he still disagreed with me."
"We disagreed on doctrine most of his life, but on his deathbed he changed his mind and agreed with me."
3 different, dishonest ways to treat disagreeing with someone you respect. Conmen pull this, and vpw pulled this, although I have no need to repeat myself.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
2nd part of quote relates to Pillai, former Hindu converted to Mar Thoma form of Christianity
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Taxidev
I was recently doing a study on the tithe, and came across some works by Ernest L Martin. For anyone who is not acquainted with his work, you can find his name in "JCOPS". He isn't actually cited there, but at least he's in the bibliography. I think I've mentioned this somewhere here at GSC before.
But, I just remembered hearing in a class - I can't remember if VP or Craig was the teacher - something to the effect of "through computers and astronomy we have determined the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ". Not an actual quote. I was thinking the phraseology implied that TWI determined this, and that is exactly what I had thought when I first heard this. Now I find it was actually Ernest Martin who figured this out, and published his findings quite a while before TWI put it in a class.
Does anyone else remember hearing this concept in a class?
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WordWolf
You're talking about Dr Ernest L. Martin's "The Star That Astonished the World." https://philologos.org/guide/books/martin.ernest.3.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin
The original dissemination of the material was in Christianity Today's article (in 1976) titled "“The Celestial Pageantry Dating Christ’s Birth." He continued with this in his 1978 book, The Birth of Christ Recalculated. JCOPS and JCOP were books written by the twi research dept, to which vpw added his name and a few words of introduction and a dedication. (Personally, I think that takes gall, but he's not the first to pull that one.) Both of those books were far superior to anything vpw was involved with, and both had bibliographies. Martin was correctly credited in JCOPS.
I didn't hear it, but that eliminates the vpw stuff and the Intermediate Class (and the TIP class.) Since they had access to the material as of 1976 when everybody else did, that suggests that any class covering it would have been filmed/recorded after 1976. It would not surprise me if lcm said that, not even aware he was stealing the credit for all the work for twi from Martin. lcm didn't see the same reality as the rest of us all through the 1990s and through his ouster from twi.
BTW, anyone who wants the full text of the article and lives in the US, they might be able to get it. What you do is walk into a local library, and consult "the Readers Guide to Periodical Literature"- looking at Christianity Today and checking for Ernest L. Martin's article in 1976 with the name I posted above. Then you'll have the correct date-issue, and I forget if the page#s are included. Either way, if the library is well-stocked on periodicals, you can then request that issue on microfilm (or microfiche, depending on their system). Most of them will have a reading-gadget that will allow you to print out a photocopy (in negative form, IIRC) of the pages you want, for some change. If your local libraries don't have it, I'm sure any college library would have it. (I looked up articles in that magazine when I was in college, and I didn't go to an ivy-league school.)
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Rocky
Didn't you just today claim (on another thread) that you had never been exposed to VP?
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WordWolf
He probably means he was never in vpw's physical presence while the man drew breath. That's not the same as his taped stuff, which is STILL being disseminated in one form or another.
BTW, even he never saw the taped stuff, he was exposed to vpw's influence because that infected all sorts of twi people, which was the idea.
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Rocky
You might be right, but I figure it's up to the Taxi man to clarify for himself.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hey Rocky......
I remember one of his posts stating that Taxi first took Piffle in 1995. He said it was the only time he had seen dictor’s original flick as Da Forehead had replaced it with his YouTube video of private interpretation, homophobia, misogyny, and rambling insanity before the next “class” came together in Taxi’s location. That’s how he is aware of both dictor and da forehead. Hey....a new sitcom: Dictor and Da Forehead! LOL!
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Taxidev
I meant in person. Sorry, I left that qualifier out.
But I do understand that all of his collaterals, his other books, and that one class is plenty of exposure.
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Taxidev
Could be a comic tragedy.
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Taxidev
Or if anyone wants to read Martin's work directly, here is the link.
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Taxidev
I actually met Craig once, at a word in business special in Dallas, TX. He's really tall! I guess his body needs to be that big to house all that ego.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
More like the Odd Couple
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JayDee
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WordWolf
The new book is probably Martin's best work on the subject. However, if someone's trying to retrace exactly all vpw's steps, they'd probably want to read the article, not the completed book. That's why I brought it up.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi WordWolf!
There are no “VPW’s steps to trace! It was Peter Bernegger and John Crouch who first introduced Ernest Martin and his astronomical calculations and research into the timing of the birth of Christ. Peter Bernegger was admitted into the 8th corpse along with two other men who later became his unfortunate compatriots in TWIt’s first PUBLIC execution, excommunication, and mark and avoid procedures which were faithfully and more forcefully applied as the years rolled on, and taken to their ultimate, perverted, vengeful conclusion under the reign of their second King, the proud and ridiculous King Okie Da Forehead until he became too psychotic and insane to even keep around as some worthless old drooling emeritus wannabe. LOL! Peter already had a degree and maybe even a Masters in Astronomy, and it was he who introduced Ernest Martin to TWIt. He went on to get a PhD and is a professor at a university some where. I have never spoken to Bernegger or Fanning since those meetings were cancelled. I have been in touch with Marty, Dave W. (now sadly deceased and very missed by many) and John Crouch during the years past-TWIt.
Anyway.....the other two guys were John Fanning (some self-trained Greek and research expert with a background (and now PhD) in Psychology or Psychiatry), and Marty McCrae, who at that time had all ready attained a Masters in Middle Eastern Languages, particularly Aramaic and Syriac and Hebrew. He eventually went on to receive his PhD also, and teaches at McGill University in Canada IIRC.
These three men were uniquely “assigned” to a spayshull project in their very first weeks at Emporia by dictor himself. They were given the “opportunity and privilege” of doing research on the dating of the birth of Christ and to submit it to Cummins and the Research Dept. as an “underlying” text for dic’s new book “he was working”, JCOPS. I was contacted along with Schoenheit, David Wilensky, and John Crouch as we each had specific “knowledge and abilities” in areas necessary to the work in progress. Schoenheit and myself on Old T. History, and symbolism/foreshadowing of Christ in the construction and services of The Tabernacle, The Feasts, the Hebrew Liturgical Calendar and the Lunar Calendar dating, and The Temple and Priesthood. David Wilensky was a math and science genius who eventually wound up working for the DOD as a “scientific analyst” on highly classified government intelligence gathering via satellite and U-2 aerial photo and other data for the NSA, CIA, and FBI. John Crouch had an advanced degree in Meterology, and eventually, as a member of the Research Dept., was one of the prime movers behind the writing and publication of JCOPS when it finally came out.
I was at Emporia teaching on The Tabernacle when the public execution went down. I had twice had a meeting with Fanning, Bernegger, McCrae, Wilensky and Crouch (all first year in-Rez 8th corpse) cancelled by LCM who was also at Empiria during that time. No reasons were given. Then, without notice, my evening class on The Tabernacle was superseded by an all corpse meeting phone hook-up for all the “campuses” with dictor and LCM that night instead. THAT was the night of the public execution of Bernegger, Fanning and McRae....the three amigos of seed boyz. LOL.
As I said, I was at Emporia for this kangaroo court, and watched in utter disbelief at what was going on! I was friendly with both Crouch and Wilensky prior to their entrance into the corpse. So, I met briefly and secretly with each of them wondering how we didn’t get the axe with them. We agreed we were fortunate for some reason and that’s the last time we ever spoke of it together.
Dictor NEVER read ANY of Ernest Martin’s work! He was too dumb, just like his C- performance at Lakeland Mission House College years before. As usual he had to have Walter do everything on it and always had Cummins, Schoenheit, and Crouch to translate and explain anything dic said he wanted to know “more about”. He never even read the final manuscript, and the only thing in the entire book he wrote was the dedication at the beginning. That’s it!! THAT’S also why there won’t be any “VPW’s steps” to trace anywhere on this book. There weren’t any!! LOL!
Thanks for reading.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, thanks for the background information. The one book "TWI" book, I enjoyed reading was "JCOPS." I loved it!! It was well-written, and very educational. I can't believe VPW kicked the three writers out; they were very bright, talented men. I am so happy for them, that they went on, and had successfull teaching carrerrs. Unlike VPW, they were the real deal, and were able to teach others. Good for them.
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Taxidev
This is disgusting! It churns my stomach to read this. To think I was impressed at all the work VPW put into this book...
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DontWorryBeHappy
Taxiedev:
i appreciate your comments. However, i am completely confused as to why you seem to support the incredibly self-serving PI Of Gallagher and your RnR heroes. Why? They are blatantly self-serving, and biblically so inaccurate and self-deluded, that I have no idea why you grant them ANY credibility or respect! They are hopelessly, conscience, hubristic, liars! What don’t YOU understand about that??
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JayDee
You’ll find that when DWBH tells you/us about these individuals, that he’s telling it like it is. No BS. He has no axe to grind. Just protecting people from the madness that is twi.
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