It is the best research I have ever read on the Sabbath
I wanted to share it for those who are interested in the Sabbath
If what the research points to is correct, it's surprising conclusion may finally answer what the Sabbath truly is, and it is not a particular day of the week
World's last chance are a bunch of whackos that will make everything complicated
God never intentended for us to be in the twiligh zone regarding seventh day sabbath
Go here for a simplified and clear explanation regarding the sabbath with the calculated hebrew calendar
World's last chance are a bunch of whackos that will make everything complicated
God never intentended for us to be in the twiligh zone regarding seventh day sabbath
Go here for a simplified and clear explanation regarding the sabbath with the calculated hebrew calendar
No wonder Waxit is so fanatical about the Sabbath. According to the link above, your soul is in some serious danger if you don't heed his advice:
"It is, to say the least, the height of foolishness and great arrogance by men who think they know more than God, and establish a lunar/new moon calendar so that they break the weekly Sabbath. And break the seven-day cycle, which goes day-by-day, not reckoned by the new moon. All months and years in the Calculated Hebrew Calendar are subject to the seven-day weekly cycle. So, while the promoters of the lunar/new moon calendar claim everybody else is wrong but them, are being utterly most foolish and arrogant. There is nowhere in the Bible, where it says we are to figure the Sabbath based on the new moon.
"So if you follow that, I hope you heed what I have said and repent. And if you do not repent, then you may find yourself in a worse position in your relationship with God than do Sunday-keepers. While Sunday is obviously the wrong day, they do not make the fatal, spiritual mistake of destroying the continuous seven- day weekly cycle, as do those who profess a lunar/new moon calendar.
"I am being very straightforward with you, because this puts you in a very seriously, near fatal spiritual state before God. So I must be very direct and truthful to you, so that you will not fall prey to this false doctrine."
Once again, thank you for your email.
Fred Coulter
No wonder Waxit is so fanatical about the Sabbath....there are some serious consequences if the Sabbath is not followed. Why he seems to be so concerned about this commandment, and not the rest of the Old Testament, is anyone's guess.
I think he has only jumped from one cult to another.
No wonder Waxit is so fanatical about the Sabbath....there are some serious consequences if the Sabbath is not followed. Why he seems to be so concerned about this commandment, and not the rest of the Old Testament, is anyone's guess.
I think he has only jumped from one cult to another.
Hi Stayed Too Long
This may probably be the last time i respond to you
I can appreciate Fred does use harsh language. As I said in my previous post to TBone, I dont agree with everything Fred says
I have not jumped cults- i am so thankful to have dumped the twi cult like a ton of bricks-stayed too long but since then I have not been brain washed like what twi does and I dont consider myself as belonging to any one group. I personally have done a lot of research inside out and 7th day Sabbath Keeping and this commandment from God is largely ignored among christians and is a sin they repeat week in and week out in direct violation of the 4th commandment in the 10 cwommandments
The reason I am responding to your comment is to let you know that I am not stupid as you think i am and I am certainly not brain washed by Fred
The sabbath is not the be all or end all just so you know I am not fanatical- There are a lot of other things in the bible that come into play like love, truth,mercy etc but the sabbath is something
satan has had enormous success in getting people to disobey- and instead has got christians to obey his 1st day sunday keeping watered down 3hr
"sabbath". Sunday keeping was started by the rc church. The early christians have never made sunday as their regular weekly service
Look at what Cardinal Gibbons of the RC church said
James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes.
s Sunday the first day of the week and did the Churchchange the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answeryes.
Did Christ change the day'? I answerno!
"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"
In fact for close to 300 years from the time Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, there was no hisorical record that sunday was the weekly service
- the reason I am focussing on the sabbath is because this is a very important commandment that people desperately want to ignore because it doesnt suit
their lifestyles or they dont understand what God wants.
If you commit the sin of igrnoring 7th day sabbath keeping week in and week out, what do you expect from God- a grland of flowers from heaven
Of course there is going to be serious consequences like Fred said
We dont own this world, God does- He is the boss. He flicks the switch on and voila you get corona virus.
If you repent He is merciful otherwise the world will continue to suffer the consequences
1 John 3:4|
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is thetransgressionof the law.
(chew on that)
I am hoping that someone will seriously research into the sabbath without having an anti sabbath bias but
it's unlikely I will find that person on gsc
I didn’t quote the three versus because they have been brought to your attention numerous times by several other posters.
For the sake of argument, those passages are certainly key to this subject. IMO, especially Col. 2:16
Colossians 2:16The Passion Translation (TPT)
Liberty in Christ
16 So why would you allow anyone[a]to judge you because of what you eat or drink, or insist that you keep the feasts, observe new moon celebrations, or the Sabbath?
This may probably be the last time i respond to you
I can appreciate Fred does use harsh language. As I said in my previous post to TBone, I dont agree with everything Fred says
I have not jumped cults- i am so thankful to have dumped the twi cult like a ton of bricks-stayed too long but since then I have not been brain washed like what twi does and I dont consider myself as belonging to any one group. I personally have done a lot of research inside out and 7th day Sabbath Keeping and this commandment from God is largely ignored among christians and is a sin they repeat week in and week out in direct violation of the 4th commandment in the 10 cwommandments
The reason I am responding to your comment is to let you know that I am not stupid as you think i am and I am certainly not brain washed by Fred
The sabbath is not the be all or end all just so you know I am not fanatical- There are a lot of other things in the bible that come into play like love, truth,mercy etc but the sabbath is something
satan has had enormous success in getting people to disobey- and instead has got christians to obey his 1st day sunday keeping watered down 3hr
"sabbath". Sunday keeping was started by the rc church. The early christians have never made sunday as their regular weekly service
Look at what Cardinal Gibbons of the RC church said
James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes.
s Sunday the first day of the week and did the Churchchange the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answeryes.
Did Christ change the day'? I answerno!
"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"
In fact for close to 300 years from the time Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, there was no hisorical record that sunday was the weekly service
- the reason I am focussing on the sabbath is because this is a very important commandment that people desperately want to ignore because it doesnt suit
their lifestyles or they dont understand what God wants.
If you commit the sin of igrnoring 7th day sabbath keeping week in and week out, what do you expect from God- a grland of flowers from heaven
Of course there is going to be serious consequences like Fred said
We dont own this world, God does- He is the boss. He flicks the switch on and voila you get corona virus.
If you repent He is merciful otherwise the world will continue to suffer the consequences
1 John 3:4|
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is thetransgressionof the law.
(chew on that)
I am hoping that someone will seriously research into the sabbath without having an anti sabbath bias but
it's unlikely I will find that person on gsc
I didn’t quote the three versus because they have been brought to your attention numerous times by several other posters.
None whatsoever. Waxit refuses to even consider whether the Sabbath is to be regarded or not. He assumes it is to be kept, period. The only point he'd consider is on which day it should be observed. He's arguing against something nobody asserted ("it's supposed to be on Sunday!"- said nobody), and supposedly looks more reasonable because he's not saying that. But as to which day the Sabbath is to be observed among Christians, the Epistles are rather clear the answer is "none of the above." We could discuss it in more detail. Sadly, Waxit's not going to participate in such a discussion, and probably would skip over the actual discussion, despite being most in need of it.
How did Wierwille put it? “Troubling versus understood in light of the clear versus.”
I think this is about the only defense Waxit has in his quiver to explain these three versus away. Of course, that assumes all the versus Waxit’s is using in his arguments are the clear ones.
Then you have to ignore that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
How did Wierwille put it? “Troubling versus understood in light of the clear versus.”
I think this is about the only defense Waxit has in his quiver to explain these three versus away. Of course, that assumes all the versus Waxit’s is using in his arguments are the clear ones.
Then you have to ignore that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
.
Pardonez-moi, kind sir! "verses." "Versus" is something different altogether.
Just remember with folks well versed in theological debates it can mean one verseversus another verse. Hopefully if folks are not averse to goofiness it will not have an adverse effect - and folks will continue to converse amicably.
Just remember with folks well versed in theological debates it can mean one verseversus another verse. Hopefully if folks are not averse to goofiness it will not have an adverse effect - and folks will continue to converse amicably.
How did Wierwille put it? “Troubling versus understood in light of the clear versus.”
I think this is about the only defense Waxit has in his quiver to explain these three versus away. Of course, that assumes all the versus Waxit’s is using in his arguments are the clear ones.
Then you have to ignore that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
.
"Difficult verses must be understood in light of the clear verses."
How did Wierwille put it? “Troubling versus understood in light of the clear versus.”
I think this is about the only defense Waxit has in his quiver to explain these three versus away. Of course, that assumes all the versus Waxit’s is using in his arguments are the clear ones.
Then you have to ignore that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
.
On 5/5/2020 at 7:15 PM, WordWolf said:
"Difficult verses must be understood in light of the clear verses."
That’s a great point, Stayed Too Long! Difficult verses just like the clear verses are a matter of opinion – depending on one’s theological viewpoint. There is also the possibility that the supposed difficult verses will remain problematic - no matter how many simple or straightforward verses one assumes relate to the difficult verses.
...to elaborate a little more on this supposed “principle” of interpretation, I would also add that “difficult” is relative to one’s level of knowledge and understanding.
A complex topic might challenge one person’s intellectual efforts, but the same topic might be a piece of cake for someone else.
For example, I started reading Hamlet – the last time I read Shakespeare was in college - that’s too long ago…age and time have taken their toll on a lot of things I learned in school…anyway, it’s been a real slow read – I lack a good knowledge of the historical period and have difficulty with the language / phraseology of Shakespeare. One thing that helps is reading Hamlet in The Complete Works of Shakespeare, by David Bevington which is like a jam-packed study Bible to me – It’s got footnotes, cultural and historical essays, background on the literary and cultural context. Another big help has been WordWolf – he has an extensive knowledge of Shakespeare / Hamlet – all that is a piece of cake to him…and so in several PMs he has helped me to kick-start a better understanding of Hamlet.
Don't you think that one of the principal things we need to remember is: keep it simple. God is not the author of confusion, of making life difficult, of being oppressive, of bondage. God wants freedom and for us not to be entangled with religious dogma. So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?
That’s a great point, Stayed Too Long! Difficult verses just like the clear verses are a matter of opinion – depending on one’s theological viewpoint. There is also the possibility that the supposed difficult verses will remain problematic - no matter how many simple or straightforward verses one assumes relate to the difficult verses.
...to elaborate a little more on this supposed “principle” of interpretation, I would also add that “difficult” is relative to one’s level of knowledge and understanding.
A complex topic might challenge one person’s intellectual efforts, but the same topic might be a piece of cake for someone else.
Great points, STL and T-Bone.
An example that occurs to me is that it may be difficult to embrace paradox. Though Wierwille knew of the concept, as I recall now, his teaching discounted paradox.
Don't you think that one of the principal things we need to remember is: keep it simple. God is not the author of confusion, of making life difficult, of being oppressive, of bondage. God wants freedom and for us not to be entangled with religious dogma. So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?
Hi Twinky,
Your comment posted while I was writing mine. IMO, paradox is one of those things that many people could describe as difficult.
In the context of this Sabbath discussion, it appears that both the concept of keeping the sabbath AND NT grace may be true.
Embracing paradox might be an intellectual skill that could reduce the associated cognitive dissonance.
Rather than denying the need for the underlying concept of a day of rest and honoring God, a person might be able to recognize and accept it, but realize it's not necessarily a dogma that necessitates a troubling bondage for the person who is unable to practice the "letter of the law."
Don't you think that one of the principal things we need to remember is: keep it simple. God is not the author of confusion, of making life difficult, of being oppressive, of bondage. God wants freedom and for us not to be entangled with religious dogma. So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?
Keep it simple – yes I agree...sorry - I digressed on the supposed difficult / clear principle. ..But you asked “So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?” ....Funny - You’ve just described the current issue with Waxit’s thread on the Sabbath. He asked for one verse that shows the insignificance of keeping the Sabbath – and posters have given him several; going by his lack of response to any one of those verses – it appears, for some reason Waxit is having difficulty addressing those clear simple verses
Your comment posted while I was writing mine. IMO, paradox is one of those things that many people could describe as difficult.
In the context of this Sabbath discussion, it appears that both the concept of keeping the sabbath AND NT grace may be true.
Embracing paradox might be an intellectual skill that could reduce the associated cognitive dissonance.
Rather than denying the need for the underlying concept of a day of rest and honoring God, a person might be able to recognize and accept it, but realize it's not necessarily a dogma that necessitates a troubling bondage for the person who is unable to practice the "letter of the law."
Brilliant post, Rocky...in my humble opinion your last sentence goes along the same lines as what Paul intended to express in Romans 14
Brilliant post, Rocky...in my humble opinion your last sentence goes along the same lines as what Paul intended to express in Romans 14
This chapter truly shows love through Jesus Christ, Judgement by mortal man for others is often not needed or required. The only reason for mortal humanity to judge others is to help the person, while doing this with a loving mindset like Jesus Christ showed. Certainly we can learn from each other. Thank you for mentioning Romans chapter 14 as a very good chapter to read and share with others.
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WordWolf
Waxit, a "productive discussion" must be both "productive" and a "discussion." To "discuss", each of us has to listen to the POV of the others, and probably get something out of it, whether bi
Stayed Too Long
Waxit Do you have any plans to address: Romans 14: 5-6; Galatians 4: 9-10, Colossians 2:16? I didn’t quote the three versus because they have been brought to your attention numerous tim
WordWolf
None whatsoever. Waxit refuses to even consider whether the Sabbath is to be regarded or not. He assumes it is to be kept, period. The only point he'd consider is on which day it should be observed
JumpinJive
If I only had a nickle for every time someone told me Christendom has been caught in a delusion.
-JJ
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Waxit
World's last chance are a bunch of whackos that will make everything complicated
God never intentended for us to be in the twiligh zone regarding seventh day sabbath
Go here for a simplified and clear explanation regarding the sabbath with the calculated hebrew calendar
https://www.cbcg.org/calculated-hebrew-calendar-faq.html
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Stayed Too Long
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Waxit
Hi Stayed Too Long
This may probably be the last time i respond to you
I can appreciate Fred does use harsh language. As I said in my previous post to TBone, I dont agree with everything Fred says
I have not jumped cults- i am so thankful to have dumped the twi cult like a ton of bricks-stayed too long but since then I have not been brain washed like what twi does and I dont consider myself as belonging to any one group. I personally have done a lot of research inside out and 7th day Sabbath Keeping and this commandment from God is largely ignored among christians and is a sin they repeat week in and week out in direct violation of the 4th commandment in the 10 cwommandments
The reason I am responding to your comment is to let you know that I am not stupid as you think i am and I am certainly not brain washed by Fred
The sabbath is not the be all or end all just so you know I am not fanatical- There are a lot of other things in the bible that come into play like love, truth,mercy etc but the sabbath is something
satan has had enormous success in getting people to disobey- and instead has got christians to obey his 1st day sunday keeping watered down 3hr
"sabbath". Sunday keeping was started by the rc church. The early christians have never made sunday as their regular weekly service
Look at what Cardinal Gibbons of the RC church said
James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.
In fact for close to 300 years from the time Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, there was no hisorical record that sunday was the weekly service
- the reason I am focussing on the sabbath is because this is a very important commandment that people desperately want to ignore because it doesnt suit
their lifestyles or they dont understand what God wants.
If you commit the sin of igrnoring 7th day sabbath keeping week in and week out, what do you expect from God- a grland of flowers from heaven
Of course there is going to be serious consequences like Fred said
We dont own this world, God does- He is the boss. He flicks the switch on and voila you get corona virus.
If you repent He is merciful otherwise the world will continue to suffer the consequences
1 John 3:4 |
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(chew on that)
I am hoping that someone will seriously research into the sabbath without having an anti sabbath bias but
it's unlikely I will find that person on gsc
Regards
Waxit
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Stayed Too Long
Waxit
Do you have any plans to address:
Romans 14: 5-6; Galatians 4: 9-10, Colossians 2:16?
I didn’t quote the three versus because they have been brought to your attention numerous times by several other posters.
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Rocky
For the sake of argument, those passages are certainly key to this subject. IMO, especially Col. 2:16
Colossians 2:16 The Passion Translation (TPT)
Liberty in Christ
16 So why would you allow anyone[a] to judge you because of what you eat or drink, or insist that you keep the feasts, observe new moon celebrations, or the Sabbath?
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Rocky
In case you didn't get the notification, Waxit.
I so wish we could have a productive discussion.
Productive discussion entails each side giving genuine consideration to the points raised by the other side.
Alas, that's not happening with you on the subject of Sabbath legalism.
That's just really, really sad.
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WordWolf
None whatsoever. Waxit refuses to even consider whether the Sabbath is to be regarded or not. He assumes it is to be kept, period. The only point he'd consider is on which day it should be observed. He's arguing against something nobody asserted ("it's supposed to be on Sunday!"- said nobody), and supposedly looks more reasonable because he's not saying that. But as to which day the Sabbath is to be observed among Christians, the Epistles are rather clear the answer is "none of the above." We could discuss it in more detail. Sadly, Waxit's not going to participate in such a discussion, and probably would skip over the actual discussion, despite being most in need of it.
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Twinky
We are in danger of this thread becoming a rehash of the other thread, with the same outcomes.
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Stayed Too Long
How did Wierwille put it? “Troubling versus understood in light of the clear versus.”
I think this is about the only defense Waxit has in his quiver to explain these three versus away. Of course, that assumes all the versus Waxit’s is using in his arguments are the clear ones.
Then you have to ignore that Jesus came to fulfill the law.
.
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Rocky
Pardonez-moi, kind sir! "verses." "Versus" is something different altogether.
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Stayed Too Long
Thanks Rocky...just one of those days, Something didn’t look right, but couldn’t put me finger on it.
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T-Bone
Just remember with folks well versed in theological debates it can mean one verse versus another verse. Hopefully if folks are not averse to goofiness it will not have an adverse effect - and folks will continue to converse amicably.
Edited by T-Bonerevision versus original text
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Rocky
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Twinky
And if all else fails, just take a trip to Versailles.
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WordWolf
"Difficult verses must be understood in light of the clear verses."
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T-Bone
That’s a great point, Stayed Too Long! Difficult verses just like the clear verses are a matter of opinion – depending on one’s theological viewpoint. There is also the possibility that the supposed difficult verses will remain problematic - no matter how many simple or straightforward verses one assumes relate to the difficult verses.
...to elaborate a little more on this supposed “principle” of interpretation, I would also add that “difficult” is relative to one’s level of knowledge and understanding.
A complex topic might challenge one person’s intellectual efforts, but the same topic might be a piece of cake for someone else.
For example, I started reading Hamlet – the last time I read Shakespeare was in college - that’s too long ago…age and time have taken their toll on a lot of things I learned in school…anyway, it’s been a real slow read – I lack a good knowledge of the historical period and have difficulty with the language / phraseology of Shakespeare. One thing that helps is reading Hamlet in The Complete Works of Shakespeare, by David Bevington which is like a jam-packed study Bible to me – It’s got footnotes, cultural and historical essays, background on the literary and cultural context. Another big help has been WordWolf – he has an extensive knowledge of Shakespeare / Hamlet – all that is a piece of cake to him…and so in several PMs he has helped me to kick-start a better understanding of Hamlet.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and bunch of editing
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Twinky
Don't you think that one of the principal things we need to remember is: keep it simple. God is not the author of confusion, of making life difficult, of being oppressive, of bondage. God wants freedom and for us not to be entangled with religious dogma. So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?
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Rocky
Great points, STL and T-Bone.
An example that occurs to me is that it may be difficult to embrace paradox. Though Wierwille knew of the concept, as I recall now, his teaching discounted paradox.
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Rocky
Hi Twinky,
Your comment posted while I was writing mine. IMO, paradox is one of those things that many people could describe as difficult.
In the context of this Sabbath discussion, it appears that both the concept of keeping the sabbath AND NT grace may be true.
Embracing paradox might be an intellectual skill that could reduce the associated cognitive dissonance.
Rather than denying the need for the underlying concept of a day of rest and honoring God, a person might be able to recognize and accept it, but realize it's not necessarily a dogma that necessitates a troubling bondage for the person who is unable to practice the "letter of the law."
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T-Bone
Keep it simple – yes I agree...sorry - I digressed on the supposed difficult / clear principle. ..But you asked “So what's a simple way of reading verses that some might describe as "difficult"?” ....Funny - You’ve just described the current issue with Waxit’s thread on the Sabbath. He asked for one verse that shows the insignificance of keeping the Sabbath – and posters have given him several; going by his lack of response to any one of those verses – it appears, for some reason Waxit is having difficulty addressing those clear simple verses
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T-Bone
Brilliant post, Rocky...in my humble opinion your last sentence goes along the same lines as what Paul intended to express in Romans 14
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Rocky
YES!
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Mark Sanguinetti
This chapter truly shows love through Jesus Christ, Judgement by mortal man for others is often not needed or required. The only reason for mortal humanity to judge others is to help the person, while doing this with a loving mindset like Jesus Christ showed. Certainly we can learn from each other. Thank you for mentioning Romans chapter 14 as a very good chapter to read and share with others.
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