BTW, if you ever get a chance to see comedian Dennis Swanberg doing one of his performances live, I recommend going
I saw him once and his impersonation of Billy Graham is eerily realistic, I mean everyone in the audience got so quiet you could hear a feather drop
It literally sounded like Billy Graham was there in person, was an experience to hear the great preacher's voice, even though I don't agree with some of his doctrinal beliefs
Dennis was hilarious with his stories and his impersonation of Barney Fife were extremely realistic, like Fife was ther in the auditorium
You can see some videos of Dennis on YouTube, but they don't compare to the experience of hearing him in person
Apparently I have been vindicated on this thread, and my prediction also came true, activity on this thread died after having been moved from the front page of GSC
It was never going to go far, no matter what forum it's in. As you can see, people found it and posted on it. So why complain?
Watch Billy reveal his true beliefs on national tv in 90 seconds...
'nuff said, and right from the horse's mouth...
Schuller's question:
"Tell me, what do you think is the futureof Christianity?"
Billy's exact words starting at 1:03
- "They are members of the body of Christ, because they've been called by God"
- "They may not even knowthe name of Jesus..."
- "But they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have..."
- "And they turn to the only light that they have..."
- "And I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven..."
Christian evangelist for 40 years but doesn't even know the most basic doctrine of salvation?
Not a snowball's chance in hell
"that IFthou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord JESUS and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED." ~ Romans 10:9,10
Billy's Revised Version:
"that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus ("They may not even know the name of Jesus"), and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved ("I think that they are saved")...
Matthew 12:37 ~ "For by thy wordsthou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Luke 6:26 ~ "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."
Schuller ends with:
"That's fantastic, I'm so thrilled to hear you say that there's a WIDENESS in God's mercy...."
"for WIDE is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction...." ~ Matthew 7:13
Ok, for the record, I disagree with the letter of what he said exactly. I do agree with him that there are Muslims and other non-Christians who DO seek God in one form or another, and I DO think that God Almighty has SOMETHING up his sleeve to cover that. I disagree with him that those in that category who don't know Jesus are in the One Body of Christians. I appreciate his trying to address an important issue, but think he fumbled on the 5-yard line and didn't get where he should have. He wasn't saying "everyone gets into Heaven" or any number of other things that vaguely resembled what he DID say. In short, I'd have corrected him on the subject but I wouldn't have defenestrated him over it.
I think BG may have had something like this in mind, from Romans 2:
Quote
12 All those who sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all those who sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.[d]14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law[e] is written on their hearts. Their consciences confirm this. Their competing thoughts will either accuse or excuse them[f]16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
My remarks on above scripture
And as for Jesus, did he not spend time with those who hadn't heard of him, with those who didn't believe who he was, and with those who only knew vague whispers about a Messiah? Was not the Promise to Abraham, who'd never heard of Jesus? Does God not want all people to be saved?
Unwise to lift Rom 10:9,10 out of context. Get a bigger vision than what TWI taught, especially about these verses.
Get a bigger view of "saved" and salvation, too.
And note, while you're about it, that BG didn't call people to his own cultic ministry. He referred people to local churches, places in their area, where they could be taught, mentored, guided, not by him but by people who knew the area and culture into which he was preaching. He didn't take all the glory to himself but acknowledged his fellow laborers (local churches) in their work for God.
Edited by Twinky Oops, apologies for funky formating, I'd delete and start again if I could
I do agree with him that there are Muslims and other non-Christians who DO seek God in one form or another, and I DO think that God Almighty has SOMETHING up his sleeve to cover that.
There is a little-known scripture that addresses both the above and below comments, I will it post here as soon as I can
41 minutes ago, Twinky said:
Get a bigger view of "saved" and salvation, too.
I don't base my beliefs on TWI or BG Leonard or anyone or anything other than scriptures
I do agree with him (Billy Graham) that there are Muslims and other non-Christians who DO seek God in one form or another, and I DO think that God Almighty has SOMETHING up his sleeve to cover that.
Hi WordWolf,
I replied to your comment above that was your response to something that Billy Graham said in the video that I posted here where Billy spoke about his beliefs
But I have moved my reply to your comment to another thread "May Explain Salvation of Non-Christians" in the Doctrinal section since it wiill very likely take us off-topic of this Billy Graham thread
12 All those who sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all those who sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.[d]14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law[e] is written on their hearts. Their consciences confirm this. Their competing thoughts will either accuse or excuse them[f]16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
Quote
And as for Jesus, did he not spend time with those who hadn't heard of him, with those who didn't believe who he was, and with those who only knew vague whispers about a Messiah? Was not the Promise to Abraham, who'd never heard of Jesus? Does God not want all people to be saved?
Unwise to lift Rom 10:9,10 out of context. Get a bigger vision than what TWI taught, especially about these verses.
Get a bigger view of "saved" and salvation, too.
And note, while you're about it, that BG [Billy Graham] didn't call people to his own cultic ministry. He referred people to local churches, places in their area, where they could be taught, mentored, guided, not by him but by people who knew the area and culture into which he was preaching. He didn't take all the glory to himself but acknowledged his fellow laborers (local churches) in their work for God.
Thanks for that insight Twinky. I've thought for several years that it would be unjust for God to limit salvation/eternal life (if there really will be such a thing/experience) to only those who fulfill the requirements of Romans 10:9 and 10. Of course, I also have read those verses from Romans 2 before but don't remember having considered them from this perspective. This also sort of redeems BG in my mind, since I am torn regarding his outsized influence on American politics.
"Graham was also close to Richard Nixon — so close that Graham took it upon himself to draft a secret 13-page plan to bomb North Vietnam. In his book “The Golden Age Is In Us: Journeys and Encounters,” Alexander Cockburn cites a declassified 1969 memo Graham wrote after meeting with missionaries in Bangkok. Graham’s plan, he wrote to Nixon, “could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam.”
Had Nixon followed through, that strike could have killed an estimated million people."
"Graham was also close to Richard Nixon — so close that Graham took it upon himself to draft a secret 13-page plan to bomb North Vietnam. In his book “The Golden Age Is In Us: Journeys and Encounters,” Alexander Cockburn cites a declassified 1969 memo Graham wrote after meeting with missionaries in Bangkok. Graham’s plan, he wrote to Nixon, “could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam.”
Had Nixon followed through, that strike could have killed an estimated million people."
Way, and he is regarded as a great MOG??!! I still think he was Garbage.
2. Chose politics over genuine evangelism message - even according to him. He courted the Presidents.
3. Succession - Franklin has issues.
Where I do see the major difference between Billy and Victor Paul Wierwille is that Billy was not a drunken adulterer and plagiarist. I see no accounts of him obtaining a "sex motor coach" and traveling around the country. He notoriously would not be alone with a woman not his wife.
But sure he had other issues. So does the empire run by his son.
I see no accounts of him obtaining a "sex motor coach" and traveling around the country. He notoriously would not be alone with a woman not his wife.
Thanks Chockfull, I wish I had your confidence in order to make statements similar to those, but my thinking is that multi-millions of dollars can hide many things as we all know by now
But the "there's worse about him" that I mentioned previously has not been touched on by any comments here, I may post the source I have already but was waiting till I found a more complete source of proof, but research takes time
What could this have to do with it?: "their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage."
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waysider
Reminds me of THIS.
TLC
Did he preach and elevate himself (or live lavishly)? Did he preach Christ crucified, and risen from the dead? Were doors opened unto him? What then? Well, to continue on (in the words of
Rocky
But then again, there's this... about Billy Graham.
GoldStar
WaySider,
Thank you for posting the link to the
Rolling Stone Billy Graham article
I had not seen it
Edited by GoldStarLink to comment
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GoldStar
BTW, if you ever get a chance to see comedian Dennis Swanberg doing one of his performances live, I recommend going
I saw him once and his impersonation of Billy Graham is eerily realistic, I mean everyone in the audience got so quiet you could hear a feather drop
It literally sounded like Billy Graham was there in person, was an experience to hear the great preacher's voice, even though I don't agree with some of his doctrinal beliefs
Dennis was hilarious with his stories and his impersonation of Barney Fife were extremely realistic, like Fife was ther in the auditorium
You can see some videos of Dennis on YouTube, but they don't compare to the experience of hearing him in person
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Twinky
It was never going to go far, no matter what forum it's in. As you can see, people found it and posted on it. So why complain?
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waysider
I'll leave you with this article, as well.
HERE
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Rocky
Isn't that special?! <3
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GoldStar
Thank you WaySider, for making a positive contribution of value to the discussion.
I wonder how 'The Johnson Amendment' applied to Billy since he was so heavily involved with politicians...
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GoldStar
Billy's Beliefs...
Watch Billy reveal his true beliefs on national tv in 90 seconds...
'nuff said, and right from the horse's mouth...
Schuller's question:
"Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?"
Billy's exact words starting at 1:03
- "They are members of the body of Christ, because they've been called by God"
- "They may not even know the name of Jesus..."
- "But they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have..."
- "And they turn to the only light that they have..."
- "And I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven..."
Christian evangelist for 40 years but doesn't even know the most basic doctrine of salvation?
Not a snowball's chance in hell
"that IF thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord JESUS and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED." ~ Romans 10:9,10
Billy's Revised Version:
"that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus ("They may not even know the name of Jesus"), and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved ("I think that they are saved")...
Matthew 12:37 ~ "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Luke 6:26 ~ "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."
Schuller ends with:
"That's fantastic, I'm so thrilled to hear you say that there's a WIDENESS in God's mercy...."
"for WIDE is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction...." ~ Matthew 7:13
Billy & Bob....Beelzy & Bub
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WordWolf
* watches video*
Ok, for the record, I disagree with the letter of what he said exactly. I do agree with him that there are Muslims and other non-Christians who DO seek God in one form or another, and I DO think that God Almighty has SOMETHING up his sleeve to cover that. I disagree with him that those in that category who don't know Jesus are in the One Body of Christians. I appreciate his trying to address an important issue, but think he fumbled on the 5-yard line and didn't get where he should have. He wasn't saying "everyone gets into Heaven" or any number of other things that vaguely resembled what he DID say. In short, I'd have corrected him on the subject but I wouldn't have defenestrated him over it.
As always, YMMV.
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JayDee
At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow.
Edited by JayDeeMisspelling
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Twinky
I think BG may have had something like this in mind, from Romans 2:
Edited by TwinkyOops, apologies for funky formating, I'd delete and start again if I could
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GoldStar
There is a little-known scripture that addresses both the above and below comments, I will it post here as soon as I can
I don't base my beliefs on TWI or BG Leonard or anyone or anything other than scriptures
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Twinky
GoldStar, perhaps you'd care to expound your views on Saved and Salvation. Doctrinal would be the forum for that.
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modcat5
Next comment that does not mention Billy Graham gets deleted without warning.
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GoldStar
Hi WordWolf,
I replied to your comment above that was your response to something that Billy Graham said in the video that I posted here where Billy spoke about his beliefs
But I have moved my reply to your comment to another thread "May Explain Salvation of Non-Christians" in the Doctrinal section since it wiill very likely take us off-topic of this Billy Graham thread
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Rocky
Thanks for that insight Twinky. I've thought for several years that it would be unjust for God to limit salvation/eternal life (if there really will be such a thing/experience) to only those who fulfill the requirements of Romans 10:9 and 10. Of course, I also have read those verses from Romans 2 before but don't remember having considered them from this perspective. This also sort of redeems BG in my mind, since I am torn regarding his outsized influence on American politics.
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Rocky
But then again, there's this... about Billy Graham.
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waysider
"Graham was also close to Richard Nixon — so close that Graham took it upon himself to draft a secret 13-page plan to bomb North Vietnam. In his book “The Golden Age Is In Us: Journeys and Encounters,” Alexander Cockburn cites a declassified 1969 memo Graham wrote after meeting with missionaries in Bangkok. Graham’s plan, he wrote to Nixon, “could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam.”
Had Nixon followed through, that strike could have killed an estimated million people."
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, and he is regarded as a great MOG??!! I still think he was Garbage.
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GoldStar
Exactly why I brought this side of the story into this thread Grace
Now everybody knows
Was he a great preacher - emphatically yes!
Was he a great Christian - emphatically no!
And there's worse about him, just keep digging, it'll come out
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Grace Valerie Claire
GS, like the fact that he didn't like Catholics, Jews, or non-whites??
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Rocky
Exactly.
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GoldStar
No, not that, it's something much worse...
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chockfull
Sure - so after research, here are some sources:
http://www.nickiswift.com/100872/untold-truth-billy-graham/
http://historicaljesusresearch.blogspot.com/2018/02/why-billy-graham-gets-c.html
https://eatapeckofdirt.com/2018/02/22/billy-graham-is-dead-god-save-america-from-false-prophets-amen/
Major criticism summary:
1. Anti-semitic
2. Chose politics over genuine evangelism message - even according to him. He courted the Presidents.
3. Succession - Franklin has issues.
Where I do see the major difference between Billy and Victor Paul Wierwille is that Billy was not a drunken adulterer and plagiarist. I see no accounts of him obtaining a "sex motor coach" and traveling around the country. He notoriously would not be alone with a woman not his wife.
But sure he had other issues. So does the empire run by his son.
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GoldStar
Thanks Chockfull, I wish I had your confidence in order to make statements similar to those, but my thinking is that multi-millions of dollars can hide many things as we all know by now
But the "there's worse about him" that I mentioned previously has not been touched on by any comments here, I may post the source I have already but was waiting till I found a more complete source of proof, but research takes time
What could this have to do with it?: "their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage."
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