My feeling is that the minute I stop being alarmed and indignant about the Board of Directors antics, cover-ups, control, ruining of lives through slander and lies, that's the minute they whitewash over the fence I was painting and move on. The whole nature of this forum is to point out the other side of the story of the Way, not to accept that it is the nature of things for individuals and groups, thus excusing the evil behavior and equating it to other normal or semi-normal human behavior in society.
And my feeling and assessment is that the minute I stop being alarmed and indignant about TWI's corporate governance and all it entails is the minute I stop letting them have any control over my life. I no longer need to accept that corporate governance as somehow necessary in my life.
And my feeling and assessment is that the minute I stop being alarmed and indignant about TWI's corporate governance and all it entails is the minute I stop letting them have any control over my life. I no longer need to accept that corporate governance as somehow necessary in my life.
I'm not sure I understand this, but I can continue to be indignant, alarmed, and telling the truth about the Way without them having any control over my life.
Again, nobody (well, me that is) was asking or suggesting you should stop telling the truth about them. However, you rightly don't have to let them have control over your life. Obviously, that process can take time to make the changes in one's brain.
Shouldn't the translation be "Most humans are liars"?
The "humans" part of the translation is there to include women.
But why the "most"?
Well, Jesus Christ was a man, did he lie?
Soc, what a good question!! No where in The Word, have I ever read that JC lied. Yet, he was a man. JC was kind, and compassionate, yet also truthful when he needed to be. I personally think your question is one for a Biblical Scholar, which I am not. What a great question Soc; does anyone know the answer?
Soc, what a good question!! No where in The Word, have I ever read that JC lied. Yet, he was a man. JC was kind, and compassionate, yet also truthful when he needed to be. I personally think your question is one for a Biblical Scholar, which I am not. What a great question Soc; does anyone know the answer?
Jesus Christ is the exception because he was not of Adam's bloodline.
He was not "of Adam" or "of the man."
I'd translate the verse "All of Adam [the man] are infused with lies."
This is an ownership issue. The adversary owns Adam's race.
Jesus Christ is the second Adam, and never was owned by the adversary, the liar-in-chief.
Again, nobody (well, me that is) was asking or suggesting you should stop telling the truth about them. However, you rightly don't have to let them have control over your life. Obviously, that process can take time to make the changes in one's brain.
Sounds like we are saying the same thing. Sorry for talking past you there for a bit.
Of course, more recent translations/versions don't make this the exclusive domain of the male gender.
We can either be alarmed and indignant about it or we can accept that it's the nature of things (a fact of life) for individuals and groups (organizations).
Academics have pondered the issue, probably for eons. Interpersonal Deception Theory (IDT) explores the interrelation between the sender's communicative meaning and the receiver's thoughts and behavior in deceptive exchanges. Then there's looking at deception solely from the perspective on the deceived person.
When does one first recognize and realize that team sports often rely heavily on deception? Baseball -- the hidden ball trick; stealing signs (either baserunning signs or catchers calling for certain pitches). There's more of them just in baseball. In basketball, there's the head fake (then passing the "rock" to a different offensive player or taking the shot). In football, if the quarterback doesn't become masterful at looking at one receiver and throwing to others, he gets intercepted too frequently to be successful.
good post Rocky !
The ESV renders Psalm 119: 11 as follows:
I said in my alarm, All mankind are liars…Psalm 116: 11 ESV
Reading the context, it appears to me that the psalmist said this out of great distress – and I think he may have succumbed to a cognitive distortion
– which may simply be one of the “ways that our mind convinces us of something that isn’t really true. These inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling ourselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.” (from above link)
Do people lie sometimes? Sure. And some folks have a tendency to lie more than others. Like wierwille – he sure went on and on about his concern for the integrity and accuracy of “The Word” in PFAL…yeah, for someone who was an unabashed plagiarist I guess personal integrity or accuracy over where he got his ideas from wasn’t that big a deal.
I think the mindset reinforced by The Way International was prone to a lot of cognitive distortions – which was one of the ways they exercised a lot of control over folks…lies of entrapment!
Soc, what a good question!! No where in The Word, have I ever read that JC lied. Yet, he was a man. JC was kind, and compassionate, yet also truthful when he needed to be. I personally think your question is one for a Biblical Scholar, which I am not. What a great question Soc; does anyone know the answer?
Occam's razor would suggest that regardless of whether JC ever lied, "All people are liars" retains it's veracity. It's a generalization that is accurate. IF JC never lied, it could rightfully be said that he would be the exception that proves the rule.
Further, I think Mike's
6 hours ago, Mike said:
Jesus Christ is the exception because he was not of Adam's bloodline.
He was not "of Adam" or "of the man."
I'd translate the verse "All of Adam [the man] are infused with lies."
This is an ownership issue. The adversary owns Adam's race.
Jesus Christ is the second Adam, and never was owned by the adversary, the liar-in-chief.
Gobbledygook is just a lame attempt to translate his PFLAP belief into something that addresses the questions of modern Christians. I don't buy it.
Jesus Christ is the exception because he was not of Adam's bloodline.
He was not "of Adam" or "of the man."
I'd translate the verse "All of Adam [the man] are infused with lies."
This is an ownership issue. The adversary owns Adam's race.
Jesus Christ is the second Adam, and never was owned by the adversary, the liar-in-chief.
Do you have some early Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text that rightfully translates it that way or are you just deciding that's how it must be according to your private interpretation of PFLAP?
Well for what it's worth I thought Mike gave a decent answer. Works for me, anyway.
Thank you, RottieGirl.
What I answered was pretty much straight from Paul's epistles. Some of the terminology I used is PFAL, but the verses line up very nicely. I'll bet thousands of churches answer it the same way I did.
Addendum - the same word is used for "man" and for "Adam."
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
21
27
19
21
Popular Days
Feb 18
31
Feb 15
29
Feb 16
23
Feb 19
20
Top Posters In This Topic
Rocky 21 posts
Mike 27 posts
T-Bone 19 posts
So_crates 21 posts
Popular Days
Feb 18 2018
31 posts
Feb 15 2018
29 posts
Feb 16 2018
23 posts
Feb 19 2018
20 posts
Popular Posts
T-Bone
Hi Grease Spotters, Just wanted to mention why I am incredulous with some of the posts on this thread (like the ones quoted above). It just seems like a trick to outmaneuver other posters wh
T-Bone
“dulled to questionable behavior, and therefore a pushover for any rationalization. Dulled to it yes; spiritually mature, pretty unlikely.” Hmmmmm… wierwille supposedly the most “spiritually mature”
Bolshevik
The answer usually given has been cognitive dissonance. They've been lied to. They've accepted the lies. They live in a false reality. They now lie to themselves and have to protect that reali
So_crates
Shouldn't the translation be "Most humans are liars"?
The "humans" part of the translation is there to include women.
But why the "most"?
Well, Jesus Christ was a man, did he lie?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
And my feeling and assessment is that the minute I stop being alarmed and indignant about TWI's corporate governance and all it entails is the minute I stop letting them have any control over my life. I no longer need to accept that corporate governance as somehow necessary in my life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I'm not sure I understand this, but I can continue to be indignant, alarmed, and telling the truth about the Way without them having any control over my life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Thanks for asking for clarification.
Again, nobody (well, me that is) was asking or suggesting you should stop telling the truth about them. However, you rightly don't have to let them have control over your life. Obviously, that process can take time to make the changes in one's brain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Soc, what a good question!! No where in The Word, have I ever read that JC lied. Yet, he was a man. JC was kind, and compassionate, yet also truthful when he needed to be. I personally think your question is one for a Biblical Scholar, which I am not. What a great question Soc; does anyone know the answer?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Jesus Christ is the exception because he was not of Adam's bloodline.
He was not "of Adam" or "of the man."
I'd translate the verse "All of Adam [the man] are infused with lies."
This is an ownership issue. The adversary owns Adam's race.
Jesus Christ is the second Adam, and never was owned by the adversary, the liar-in-chief.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, I think VPW was perhaps the greatest liar who ever lived. He pretended to love God, then lived like the Devil himself.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Did that answer your question?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
My guess would be no.
Shall we take something a liar says as fact?
How do we know when he's telling the truth and when he's lying?
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
No!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Soc, bingo!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, I think the subject is more complicated, than the answer you gave.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
The bible says "ALL" not "ALL WITH THE EXCEPTION"
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Straight out of PFAL.
(It must be true.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Sounds like we are saying the same thing. Sorry for talking past you there for a bit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
good post Rocky !
The ESV renders Psalm 119: 11 as follows:
I said in my alarm, All mankind are liars…Psalm 116: 11 ESV
Reading the context, it appears to me that the psalmist said this out of great distress – and I think he may have succumbed to a cognitive distortion
– which may simply be one of the “ways that our mind convinces us of something that isn’t really true. These inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling ourselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.” (from above link)
Do people lie sometimes? Sure. And some folks have a tendency to lie more than others. Like wierwille – he sure went on and on about his concern for the integrity and accuracy of “The Word” in PFAL…yeah, for someone who was an unabashed plagiarist I guess personal integrity or accuracy over where he got his ideas from wasn’t that big a deal.
I think the mindset reinforced by The Way International was prone to a lot of cognitive distortions – which was one of the ways they exercised a lot of control over folks…lies of entrapment!
Edited by T-Boneclarity
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Occam's razor would suggest that regardless of whether JC ever lied, "All people are liars" retains it's veracity. It's a generalization that is accurate. IF JC never lied, it could rightfully be said that he would be the exception that proves the rule.
Further, I think Mike's
Gobbledygook is just a lame attempt to translate his PFLAP belief into something that addresses the questions of modern Christians. I don't buy it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Do you have some early Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text that rightfully translates it that way or are you just deciding that's how it must be according to your private interpretation of PFLAP?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Not a problem. It's always okay to ask for clarification.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Well for what it's worth I thought Mike gave a decent answer. Works for me, anyway.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Thank you, RottieGirl.
What I answered was pretty much straight from Paul's epistles. Some of the terminology I used is PFAL, but the verses line up very nicely. I'll bet thousands of churches answer it the same way I did.
Addendum - the same word is used for "man" and for "Adam."
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
RG, I thought Mike gave a Bullsheet answer, and it didn't work for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
I'd be very interested if you ever find a better one.
What do you find wrong with it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, I think Rocky's posts were right on the money. Please read his posts, and your question will be answered.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.