Yes, the alphabet, singing in tongues, silently, outloud, etc.
TWI teaches that sit actually builds up the spirit within a born again believer, makes it stronger like spiritual weight lifting.
They also teach that holy spirit is perfect and lacks nothing, that God gives the same measure of holy spirit to every one who is born again and that nobody's spirit is stronger than another.
So how then can it be built up, made stronger by speaking in tongues?
Regardless of how it's taught, I reckon there's enough of an actual effect in believing, that it's rather easy to miss (or mistake) the real reason(s) for change.
(And that statement be applied to far more than I care to get into...)
Yes, the alphabet, singing in tongues, silently, outloud, etc.
TWI teaches that sit actually builds up the spirit within a born again believer, makes it stronger like spiritual weight lifting.
They also teach that holy spirit is perfect and lacks nothing, that God gives the same measure of holy spirit to every one who is born again and that nobody's spirit is stronger than another.
So how then can it be built up, made stronger by speaking in tongues?
I digress...lol...
even more
Yeah I remember that alphabet gimmick too…I use to practice tongues inspired by the letters on license plates LOL
…hey, wierwille mentioned in an Advanced class (I think... or was it in PFAL – so long ago – don’t remember…don’t care LOL) how he’d practice getting revelation by going to the race track – God helping him pick the winners – or practicing discerning of spirits – it was something like having God show him if a person had a white heart or black heart – then he’d walk up to them and ask them if they were a Christian or not – and their answer would confirm what God showed him…amazing that I believed all his goofy shtick…now I think why didn’t he encourage us to practice stuff like that too? “yeah kids, get out there and practice receiving revelation and while you’re at it – try out the power manifestations…start out small, maybe find a dead bug or dead bird and raise it from the dead.”
why? I'll tell you why (just practicing my way corps public speaking techniques ) the revelation and power manifestations are kinda difficult to fake!
hey, wierwille mentioned in an Advanced class (I think... or was it in PFAL – so long ago – don’t remember…don’t care LOL) how he’d practice getting revelation by going to the race track – God helping him pick the winners
So, God helped him pick the winners when he played the ponies...
Then why ABS?
Just wait until the lottery hits $250 million, then have God reveal the winning numbers.
Yes, the alphabet, singing in tongues, silently, outloud, etc.
TWI teaches that sit actually builds up the spirit within a born again believer, makes it stronger like spiritual weight lifting.
They also teach that holy spirit is perfect and lacks nothing, that God gives the same measure of holy spirit to every one who is born again and that nobody's spirit is stronger than another.
So how then can it be built up, made stronger by speaking in tongues?
I digress...lol...
perfect in quality, no darkness, no sin
Built up in quantity (figuratively), strength (figuratively)
Yeah I remember that alphabet gimmick too…I use to practice tongues inspired by the letters on license plates LOL
…hey, wierwille mentioned in an Advanced class (I think... or was it in PFAL – so long ago – don’t remember…don’t care LOL) how he’d practice getting revelation by going to the race track – God helping him pick the winners – or practicing discerning of spirits – it was something like having God show him if a person had a white heart or black heart – then he’d walk up to them and ask them if they were a Christian or not – and their answer would confirm what God showed him…amazing that I believed all his goofy shtick…now I think why didn’t he encourage us to practice stuff like that too? “yeah kids, get out there and practice receiving revelation and while you’re at it – try out the power manifestations…start out small, maybe find a dead bug or dead bird and raise it from the dead.”
why? I'll tell you why (just practicing my way corps public speaking techniques ) the revelation and power manifestations are kinda difficult to fake!
I learned that most of the manifestations are for helping others, not self.
We were encouraged to go out and learn the manifestations as we went out WOW or our similar equivalent. I always regarded witnessing as the primary arena for learning the big 6. The other place is in the fellowship in helping believers.
The horse race thing was to merely build believing in learning to recognize God's voice, to be later applied to blessing others and not self.
Strikes me your previous post is a waste of your time. You said you were going to read old threads to try to understand people, and give up posting for a while.
I learned that most of the manifestations are for helping others, not self.
We were encouraged to go out and learn the manifestations as we went out WOW or our similar equivalent. I always regarded witnessing as the primary arena for learning the big 6. The other place is in the fellowship in helping believers.
The horse race thing was to merely build believing in learning to recognize God's voice, to be later applied to blessing others and not self.
Just curious - did you learn that from wierwille - aka the plagiarist, sexual predator, narcissist, pathological liar ?
and since we’re talking about the big 6 - revelation and power manifestations - can you give some specific incidents from witnessing and in fellowships.
fyi: another point on wierwille’s self-referencing and the big 6 - revelation and power manifestations - like all his other claims of greatness - these stories of how God taught him revelation are just that - fabricated stories.
Were there any eye-witnesses to any of wierwille’s stories of operating the big 6?
Strikes me your previous post is a waste of your time. You said you were going to read old threads to try to understand people, and give up posting for a while.
Yeah, Twinky..........you've opened two threads, giving him "a platform" to voice his thesis and subsequent viewpoints.
Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that?
Please Mike.......stay on thread message or stay off this thread.
So your saying some of us got five ounces of spirit, while others got 10 pounds?
Yes. Twi still teaches that via implication using jude 1:20 as their point of departure. Its listed in the benefits and purposes of sit in their fnc class, or whereever else they have it printed, i think rhst book. Since mike thinks plaf if theopneustos, he no doubt believes that too.
Except twi says we all start with the same gift of hs but you build it up by exercising your ability to sit. You get that spirit red hot by speaking in tongues like a house of fire.
Self-Referential Greatness...............wierwille's stories in pfal.
Wierwille threads "his" pfal class with stories of believing............were these stories real or fiction? When wierwille moved his family and upstart minus-try from Van Wert back to the wierwille farmstead in February 1962........he ran up against the New Knoxville/St. Mary's townspeople who KNEW his past. Also, at about that time in 1962.........there was an exodus of the Troy and Xenia believers who were concerned that vic and harry were mingling ministry finances with personal/business finances.
And........in Mrs. W's book, there is documentation of pfal classes from 1958-1961. Besides the exodus in the Troy area.........people just keep drifting away. Wierwille's approach to teaching these classes in city after city, with the help of Mal George on occasion, was yielding no long-term benefit......no committed fruit. What happened in those years 1962-1966......presumably, would have been the same, no?
THEREFORE..........by 1967, wierwille KNOWS and NEEDS to change his strategy: 1) Film the class, 2) Target the youth, 3) Find a nucleus of fire-brands (ie-Donnie Fugits) to assist, and 4) Build a corps training program.
He filled his foundational class with pre-emptive strikes.
On 2/16/2016 at 4:47 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
Hi All!
My 2 cents FWIW...... I think that entire rap about the drunk showing up at choich, whether invented or real, is part of a subtle thread which runs throughout piffle. It's like the red thread. What is it? An attempt by vic to pre-emptively mitigate the accusations which had been thrown at him effectively before this filming project in late 1967. Namely that, vic was a drunk and a "womanizer". These went as far back as Van Wert and were definitely part of why the UCC dangcanned him. They fired him and then he wrote his "resignation" letter in August, 1956 or 57.
Upon moving it all back to the family farm where he grew up in New Knoxville, the locals, who couldn't stand young vic when he lived among them, were not shaking their heads that the boy was fired by the Church for drinking and carousing with his young secretary Rhoda Beckett, a Mennonite from NY, along with others in his congregation. The "rumors" were quite effective because first of all, they were factual, and secondly, the NK residents were quite well aware of vic's varied peccadilloes while he terrorized the town's girls and bullied the boys. So, when he returned to the family farm after being fired by the UCC, H.E. bought up the shares of the other siblings, and he was back home facing the reputation he had made for himself as a young man in town and the rumors, which everyone knew were true, of why the church fired him. And so the feud was rekindled and continues today even though no wierwilles are left in twit.
Piffle was filmed in Dayton. The biggest fellowships were in Troy, Xenia, and several towns surrounding New Knoxville like Sidney and St. Mary's. Vic's church along with all the whispers about the fired UCC guy who had his own church now. The rumors never stopped and now followed him wherever he went. So, he constantly did everything he could to squelch, deny, and minimalize the rumors even in piffle. Examples? The drunk story. Vic was a boozer since high school. Everybody knew it. He'd get dangfaced and race his motorcycle all over the place doing "tricks" and scaring people. He was the prankster, practical joker who consistently ....ed people off. The NKers knew all this. So did Shelby and auglaize county sheriffs. So, the whole drunk story was throw in there not to teach grace but rather to obviate vic's "license to sin" practice of grace. How did he respond to the drunk guy incident? He became one! But, we don't need to confront him. We need to love and forgive him by god's grace just like vic
Did for the drunk and like Jesus does for you. "That's the living thing to do."
Then, in that section in Acts where he's "handling" Paul's thorn in the flesh. Remember? "Whaddya think his back looked
like? Whaddya think his back looked like? Why some even accused the great Apostle Paul of being a sex pervert! A sex pervert! Imagine that? Well I'd sure as heck would need to be absolutely sure I was right before I'd lay something like that at the feet of the greatest apostle in the first century church! That's riiight! A sex pervert! Lordy Pete!". Sound familiar? Interesting he'd throw that one specific charge in there that is NOT recorded anywhere in scripture. Again, a pre-emptive strike to obviate the other FACT about Vic that followed him his whole life. A drunken molester of women and a bully. And, the pre-emptive obviating was quite effective all through the 70's. But, then the facts caught up with them all, and down fell the cradle, baby and all. Vic was ALWAYS on alert. But the young jerks like da forehead, Beence finnegan, wrenn, lynn, and a bunch of other young turks were lazy. They had it handed to them and thought it was their right. Didn't take long before they all got caught and when the heat started turning on Vic, he retired and got outta dodge. And, when he died he left Geer behind to take it all back from the guys who screwed it all up......his oldest biological son Don, his best friend Howard, and his best student da forehead. He died a "winner" and took his balls to the grave with him. Which is why his son Don, at the end of a Yak Twig meeting in the motorcycle shed in 1986, tearfully screamed......"He's .... dead and still he tortures me from the grave!". Nice legacy.
Yes. Twi still teaches that via implication using jude 1:20 as their point of departure. Its listed in the benefits and purposes of sit in their fnc class, or whereever else they have it printed, i think rhst book. Since mike thinks plaf if theopneustos, he no doubt believes that too.
Except twi says we all start with the same gift of hs but you build it up by exercising your ability to sit. You get that spirit red hot by speaking in tongues like a house of fire.
It also flies in the face of God being no respecter of persons, meaning He would not give one person more than He gives another.
Self-Referential Greatness...............wierwille's stories in pfal.
Wierwille threads "his" pfal class with stories of believing............were these stories real or fiction? When wierwille moved his family and upstart minus-try from Van Wert back to the wierwille farmstead in February 1962........he ran up against the New Knoxville/St. Mary's townspeople who KNEW his past. Also, at about that time in 1962.........there was an exodus of the Troy and Xenia believers who were concerned that vic and harry were mingling ministry finances with personal/business finances.
And........in Mrs. W's book, there is documentation of pfal classes from 1958-1961. Besides the exodus in the Troy area.........people just keep drifting away. Wierwille's approach to teaching these classes in city after city, with the help of Mal George on occasion, was yielding no long-term benefit......no committed fruit. What happened in those years 1962-1966......presumably, would have been the same, no?
THEREFORE..........by 1967, wierwille KNOWS and NEEDS to change his strategy: 1) Film the class, 2) Target the youth, 3) Find a nucleus of fire-brands (ie-Donnie Fugits) to assist, and 4) Build a corps training program.
He filled his foundational class with pre-emptive strikes.
Yeah, Twinky..........you've opened two threads, giving him "a platform" to voice his thesis and subsequent viewpoints.
Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that?
Please Mike.......stay on thread message or stay off this thread.
Thanks.
(a) Sorry I drifted off topic.
(b) I was most concerned that my "style" was drifting back to "working my thesis" and it looks like it may have, but still not sure.
For both items, what happened was I merely trying to hold simple conversations, zeroing in on the most recent micro-topics, and not getting overly detailed.
I haven't yet looked at Twinky's offer in detail, due to s few distractions in my personal life. I will look at that better, and soon. However, the whole idea of a single thread platform for my thesis presentation is what I wanted to NOT do any more.
So, I'm a little confused (temporary, I'm sure) as to what I CAN do here and not cause a lot of stress.
***
I'm attempting to fully understand the following sentence: "Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that?"
If you want me to completely confine myself to one thread, I can do that, but I did not know that was what Twinky had in mind. Give me time. I'll either find a fine tuned adjustment or go away.
If it's the case that you want NONE of the kind counter perspective I can provide, please say so and I will understand and withdraw completely.
So far, with only a tiny bit of thinking it through, are you asking me to only post on one thread?
If I were doing my thesis, that might work, but it seems a little awkward for me to read a poster's comment on one thread, and then make my comments on another. Is that what I'm hearing? Awkward or not, that's what I'll do; just not sure how much or for how long.
The reason I highlighted "the big SIX manifestations".......because that is what is supposed to be where the ACTION and POWER come into evidence. And, it's one thing to be self-referencing greatness, but quite another to back it up.
Yes, I have many times posted that wierwille's speaking in tongues was ridiculously repetitive......and highly suspect.
In twi.........at the end of session 12.......anyone could "do it" or fake it. But just because wierwille taught this in his fraudulent wheelhouse.......doesn't negate those nine manifestations and their authenticity. Of course......that's where the doctrinal forum comes into play, right?
.
I've always felt it was more About the Way than it was doctrinal, but it's off topic here either way. ;)
I've always felt it was more About the Way than it was doctrinal, but it's off topic here either way. ;)
The nine gifts/manifestations are listed in the bible.......not in twi's doctrines or listed like "The 16 keys to walking by the spirit."
Therefore, it seems to me.......this is better suited for the doctrinal forum, not About the Way forum, because those nine manifestations are not exclusive to twi's teachings but fall into a broader sense of the whole of Christianity. Of course, wierwille/twi had their stated version of these and their application within twi.......but Christian groups, far and wide, have a stake in this doctrinal issue as well.
But hey.......kinda like splitting hairs on this one. No biggie.
Wierwille thumped his chest and told his stories of "believing" (real or fiction)........in pfal.
And, he set up a corps program........culminating in a LEAD-experiment of "believing" entailing hitch-hiking and rock climbing. Corps were subjected to hiking with heavy backpacks, climbing, rappelling, etc. and hitch-hiking back to campus in a certain allotted time period. Upon completion, LEAD staff wrote up a report on each corps person.......then sent it to Corps Coordinators and the Corps Director's office. This report was summarily placed into that person's corps file.
~~~~~~~~~
But in terms of self-referencing greatness.........."Legendary Rock Climber" Alex Honnold has no equals. And, even he is very hesitant to self-reference his abilities.
Some of the "greats" of all time.........let their actions speak for themselves.
Self-Referential Greatness...............wierwille's stories in pfal.
Wierwille threads "his" pfal class with stories of believing............were these stories real or fiction? When wierwille moved his family and upstart minus-try from Van Wert back to the wierwille farmstead in February 1962........he ran up against the New Knoxville/St. Mary's townspeople who KNEW his past. Also, at about that time in 1962.........there was an exodus of the Troy and Xenia believers who were concerned that vic and harry were mingling ministry finances with personal/business finances.
And........in Mrs. W's book, there is documentation of pfal classes from 1958-1961. Besides the exodus in the Troy area.........people just keep drifting away. Wierwille's approach to teaching these classes in city after city, with the help of Mal George on occasion, was yielding no long-term benefit......no committed fruit. What happened in those years 1962-1966......presumably, would have been the same, no?
THEREFORE..........by 1967, wierwille KNOWS and NEEDS to change his strategy: 1) Film the class, 2) Target the youth, 3) Find a nucleus of fire-brands (ie-Donnie Fugits) to assist, and 4) Build a corps training program.
He filled his foundational class with pre-emptive strikes.
DWBH, wow!! What a post! IMO, VPW was a POS, his entire life. I think the locals knew that he was Garbage, and that didn't change when he became a minister. I think if the townspeople had such a low opinion of me, I would have left the area, and started fresh some where else.
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skyrider
Wierwille was The Teacher................because he said he was. TWI is the true household of God......because they say it is. Elena Whiteside wrote The Way: Living in Love.......because she
OldSkool
Yes, the alphabet, singing in tongues, silently, outloud, etc. TWI teaches that sit actually builds up the spirit within a born again believer, makes it stronger like spiritual weight lifting.
So_crates
You mean like proclaiming you have the only true word of God than stealing others ideas and raping women?
TLC
Regardless of how it's taught, I reckon there's enough of an actual effect in believing, that it's rather easy to miss (or mistake) the real reason(s) for change.
(And that statement be applied to far more than I care to get into...)
Edited by TLCLink to comment
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T-Bone
even more
Yeah I remember that alphabet gimmick too…I use to practice tongues inspired by the letters on license plates LOL
…hey, wierwille mentioned in an Advanced class (I think... or was it in PFAL – so long ago – don’t remember…don’t care LOL) how he’d practice getting revelation by going to the race track – God helping him pick the winners – or practicing discerning of spirits – it was something like having God show him if a person had a white heart or black heart – then he’d walk up to them and ask them if they were a Christian or not – and their answer would confirm what God showed him…amazing that I believed all his goofy shtick…now I think why didn’t he encourage us to practice stuff like that too? “yeah kids, get out there and practice receiving revelation and while you’re at it – try out the power manifestations…start out small, maybe find a dead bug or dead bird and raise it from the dead.”
why? I'll tell you why (just practicing my way corps public speaking techniques
) the revelation and power manifestations are kinda difficult to fake!
Edited by T-Bonedetails
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So_crates
So, God helped him pick the winners when he played the ponies...
Then why ABS?
Just wait until the lottery hits $250 million, then have God reveal the winning numbers.
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Rocky
My recollection is that he only got the "heavy revvie" about such things when he didn't wager any money.
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waysider
Yes, that's my recollection, also.
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Mike
perfect in quality, no darkness, no sin
Built up in quantity (figuratively), strength (figuratively)
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Mike
I learned that most of the manifestations are for helping others, not self.
We were encouraged to go out and learn the manifestations as we went out WOW or our similar equivalent. I always regarded witnessing as the primary arena for learning the big 6. The other place is in the fellowship in helping believers.
The horse race thing was to merely build believing in learning to recognize God's voice, to be later applied to blessing others and not self.
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Mike
I have a question:
Is my previous post over the line, and back into my promised-to-end style?
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Twinky
Strikes me your previous post is a waste of your time. You said you were going to read old threads to try to understand people, and give up posting for a while.
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OldSkool
The bible plainly disagrees with you and twi, vic, plaf, etc, on this matter, but ill not derail this thread any further. Later.
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T-Bone
Just curious - did you learn that from wierwille - aka the plagiarist, sexual predator, narcissist, pathological liar ?
and since we’re talking about the big 6 - revelation and power manifestations - can you give some specific incidents from witnessing and in fellowships.
fyi: another point on wierwille’s self-referencing and the big 6 - revelation and power manifestations - like all his other claims of greatness - these stories of how God taught him revelation are just that - fabricated stories.
Were there any eye-witnesses to any of wierwille’s stories of operating the big 6?
Edited by T-Boneand the nonsense continues
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skyrider
Yeah, Twinky..........you've opened two threads, giving him "a platform" to voice his thesis and subsequent viewpoints.
Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that?
Please Mike.......stay on thread message or stay off this thread.
Thanks.
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skyrider
Mike........TAKE YOUR QUESTION and start your own thread.
Thanks.
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So_crates
So your saying some of us got five ounces of spirit, while others got 10 pounds?
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OldSkool
Yes. Twi still teaches that via implication using jude 1:20 as their point of departure. Its listed in the benefits and purposes of sit in their fnc class, or whereever else they have it printed, i think rhst book. Since mike thinks plaf if theopneustos, he no doubt believes that too.
Except twi says we all start with the same gift of hs but you build it up by exercising your ability to sit. You get that spirit red hot by speaking in tongues like a house of fire.
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skyrider
Self-Referential Greatness...............wierwille's stories in pfal.
Wierwille threads "his" pfal class with stories of believing............were these stories real or fiction? When wierwille moved his family and upstart minus-try from Van Wert back to the wierwille farmstead in February 1962........he ran up against the New Knoxville/St. Mary's townspeople who KNEW his past. Also, at about that time in 1962.........there was an exodus of the Troy and Xenia believers who were concerned that vic and harry were mingling ministry finances with personal/business finances.
And........in Mrs. W's book, there is documentation of pfal classes from 1958-1961. Besides the exodus in the Troy area.........people just keep drifting away. Wierwille's approach to teaching these classes in city after city, with the help of Mal George on occasion, was yielding no long-term benefit......no committed fruit. What happened in those years 1962-1966......presumably, would have been the same, no?
THEREFORE..........by 1967, wierwille KNOWS and NEEDS to change his strategy: 1) Film the class, 2) Target the youth, 3) Find a nucleus of fire-brands (ie-Donnie Fugits) to assist, and 4) Build a corps training program.
He filled his foundational class with pre-emptive strikes.
The subtle thread which runs throughout pfal
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So_crates
It also flies in the face of God being no respecter of persons, meaning He would not give one person more than He gives another.
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T-Bone
Great post, Skyrider- and I love that Don’t Worry post - and I think you’ve said it before - I wish/hope Don’t Worry writes a book someday !
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Mike
(a) Sorry I drifted off topic.
(b) I was most concerned that my "style" was drifting back to "working my thesis" and it looks like it may have, but still not sure.
For both items, what happened was I merely trying to hold simple conversations, zeroing in on the most recent micro-topics, and not getting overly detailed.
I haven't yet looked at Twinky's offer in detail, due to s few distractions in my personal life. I will look at that better, and soon. However, the whole idea of a single thread platform for my thesis presentation is what I wanted to NOT do any more.
So, I'm a little confused (temporary, I'm sure) as to what I CAN do here and not cause a lot of stress.
***
I'm attempting to fully understand the following sentence: "Yet, he dodges and weaves........and keeps coming to other threads to strut all over the chessboard. Why is that?"
If you want me to completely confine myself to one thread, I can do that, but I did not know that was what Twinky had in mind. Give me time. I'll either find a fine tuned adjustment or go away.
If it's the case that you want NONE of the kind counter perspective I can provide, please say so and I will understand and withdraw completely.
So far, with only a tiny bit of thinking it through, are you asking me to only post on one thread?
If I were doing my thesis, that might work, but it seems a little awkward for me to read a poster's comment on one thread, and then make my comments on another. Is that what I'm hearing? Awkward or not, that's what I'll do; just not sure how much or for how long.
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Raf
I've always felt it was more About the Way than it was doctrinal, but it's off topic here either way. ;)
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skyrider
The nine gifts/manifestations are listed in the bible.......not in twi's doctrines or listed like "The 16 keys to walking by the spirit."
Therefore, it seems to me.......this is better suited for the doctrinal forum, not About the Way forum, because those nine manifestations are not exclusive to twi's teachings but fall into a broader sense of the whole of Christianity. Of course, wierwille/twi had their stated version of these and their application within twi.......but Christian groups, far and wide, have a stake in this doctrinal issue as well.
But hey.......kinda like splitting hairs on this one. No biggie.
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skyrider
Wierwille thumped his chest and told his stories of "believing" (real or fiction)........in pfal.
And, he set up a corps program........culminating in a LEAD-experiment of "believing" entailing hitch-hiking and rock climbing. Corps were subjected to hiking with heavy backpacks, climbing, rappelling, etc. and hitch-hiking back to campus in a certain allotted time period. Upon completion, LEAD staff wrote up a report on each corps person.......then sent it to Corps Coordinators and the Corps Director's office. This report was summarily placed into that person's corps file.
~~~~~~~~~
But in terms of self-referencing greatness.........."Legendary Rock Climber" Alex Honnold has no equals. And, even he is very hesitant to self-reference his abilities.
Some of the "greats" of all time.........let their actions speak for themselves.
Check out video at 11:10 mark.........
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Twinky
That's quite a vid, Sky. And quite a confident young man. Cool as a cucumber.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, wow!! What a post! IMO, VPW was a POS, his entire life. I think the locals knew that he was Garbage, and that didn't change when he became a minister. I think if the townspeople had such a low opinion of me, I would have left the area, and started fresh some where else.
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