I hope no one takes this the wrong way - - I just found this so funny
Gold Star joined Grease Spot about an hour ago…comes to this thread…and for their FIRST post - I’m guessing this is just Gold Star’s startled reaction to Twinky’s post…”oh my!”
anyway…
welcome to Grease Spot, Gold Star
uhm….it’s not always like this (whatever that means ) hope you stick around awhile and enjoy reading – and if you feel like it - share some too.
I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL.
I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box?
How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather? Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship.
Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.
Twinky, good advice, but Mike won't take it. He is like that fool in the WH; he loves attention, good or bad. Mike has to be the center of attention, in order to function.
I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL.
I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box?
How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather? Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship.
Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.
I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL.
Hi Twinky,
Love certainly is what it’s all about. That, or a similar verse comes up in the first 10 minutes of the film class. Since I took the class to heart, I naturally took that idea of loving God first and then neighbor as self to heart. I still do.
One of the things that I did early in my experiences with that verse was track it down. I wanted to know where Jesus got that from. It wasn’t hard. From memory I think it was Deut 6. but I’m avoiding a lot of quotations right now.
Right after Moses told Israel (and Jesus) to love God first, he told HOW to do it. The OT verses that follow the "love God first" verse are interesting. They basically say that to love God we should immerse ourselves in His words, almost like a fanatic. Some people err on the side of moderation here; sorry, I may have erredon the side of fanaticism. I am moderating.
Long ago, when we carried green cards in our Bibles, I would tell people that we love God the same basic way we love people: we listen to hear their will, and we act on that will. Not so coincidentally, this is also the heart of entrepreneurship.
***
I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box?
.Yes, I agree. The “acting on another’s will” I mentioned means first determining what their need or yearning is, and then finding actions that assist in that.
How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather?
.Yes, again I agree.I look to what is needed in my life for me to be able to love others.
***
Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship.
.More agreement.
However, this kind of behavior has not been a primary focus of my public posting here. In my private communications with posters here things are a lot different. In my personal life things are a lot different.
I have hundreds of customers that I try to regard as friends of varying closeness. My application of love there is not trivial. Same with neighbors in my apartment complex.I belong to a dance club that involves hundreds of people and all kinds of social giving and receiving. I’ve found I can give companionship where it is needed most.
It may be the case that, for me, a public GreaseSpot application of the principle of love may not be as possible as it is in other areas of my life.I mentioned before that I do actually come here in love, post words of love as I see it, and have to hold my nose for a lot of my applications of it. If I succeed in transmitting one of God’s ideas here, then that is love. I regret the messiness, and am doing my best to clean it up.
***
Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.
.Good advice. I’m glad to say I have followed it a lot already, and often. I put GreaseSPot down for 10 years. My posting is not even one tenth the volume it was, and I am slowly driving it down as we speak.
I am having a great time with the people around me, honest.For the past 5 years I have been enjoying many open doors in my work and in my play.
***
There is a certain momentum involved in my posting style. I honed it 15 years ago.It’s like trying to stop a freight train from my perspective.
There’s also a kind of momentum within posters here, to keep me in my hard hitting style, and I understand that.Whenever we go back to our home town, our old townie friends expect us to be the same person who left town 40 years ago. They tend to drag us back to our former selves.
I think both of these momenta are diminishing. Thank you for your patience.
Hi Mike. That's a more encouraging response than I'd expected. Thank you.
I do have to take issue with you on one point:
2 hours ago, Mike said:
we listen to hear their [people's] will, and we act on that will. ...
The “acting on another’s will” I mentioned means first determining what their need or yearning is, and then finding actions that assist in that.
It's not so much "will" or "desire" as hearing the deeper heart issues, the words that are not said, the hurt that is not expressed. Sometimes a carefully worded question will elicit further information, and sometimes not. Sometimes the "action that assists" is simply to be there, to sit, to let the person talk - or not. And you listen with your inner heart, listen with as much as you can understand of God's heart. It's called empathy (not at all like sympathy!).
I do not think you will get this level of intimacy at a dance club involving hundreds of people. That's a way of being with people, without actually engaging with them as individuals. In any large group, there is little space for intimacy. Sad to say, people can even go to large churches for years and yet never get engaged or involved with others, and so their needs go unmet.
To whomever: can we stop spamming up the threads with colored fonts and all? The forums have a quote function that makes it easy to read along. Unless one's intent is to obfuscate threads, the quote function does wonders
As far as the tight arguments go, I was only asking for examples because I seek learning in that area. It was not to win an argument.
You probably gave away more information about yourself then you wanted to when you thought the purpose of the proofs I outlined were to win arguments.
First, of they can be used in that type of arguing, but it wasn't my intent.
My intent was to give you the build blocks for presenting your case. They can be strung together in any order.
The elements also don't have to be how they're laid out on the cheat sheet. They can be positive or negative or any combination as long as the form is retained.
The only reason I used negatives is to prove to you that it is possible to prove a negative.
I'm afraid winning an argument takes a little more than mons ponens or mons tollens.
To whomever: can we stop spamming up the threads with colored fonts and all? The forums have a quote function that makes it easy to read along. Unless one's intent is to obfuscate threads, the quote function does wonders
And remember the rule for font size: small fonts are for small minds…big fonts are for big minds…and I guess medium fonts are for communicating with the minds of the dead.
To whomever: can we stop spamming up the threads with colored fonts and all? The forums have a quote function that makes it easy to read along. Unless one's intent is to obfuscate threads, the quote function does wonders
For people with difficulty seeing, color/bold/sized fonts can make for easier reading.
Also, I find when a lot of detail is happening, with lots of back and forth quoting, colors help in sorting out who said what.
There’s also a kind of momentum within posters here, to keep me in my hard hitting style, and I understand that.Whenever we go back to our home town, our old townie friends expect us to be the same person who left town 40 years ago. They tend to drag us back to our former selves.
I think both of these momenta are diminishing. Thank you for your patience.
I see is as normal human mechanics. Just a little momentum.
I see it as you blaming others for "dragging us back to our former selves." Honestly, nobody can force you to hold on to your former self, or to grow for that matter.
I understand that we influence each other's actions, but really nobody is responsible for your actions other than you yourself.
I appreciate that you don't want anyone to blame you. But if you want to make the case more convincing, don't try to shift that responsibility to others.
The way I'm using words in this context is “profound” involves matters of mind and life and love, i.e.,the big issues that come upin everyday life with people.
I’m using “trivial” for the more elementary things like matter, super simple matters like Hydrogen, math, numbers, and the things of hard core science. These issues have been dealt with efficiently in recent centuries, BECAUSE the human element has been systematically stripped out as a major theme in the scientific method.
There seems to be a huge gap between these two worlds, but it may be filled someday with future developments brain science. However some leaders in the field have a few doubts about this possibility.
I had a life long interest in Godel’s Theorem because it seems to bridge this gap in some ways. The elements of the theorem are all “trivial” elements of set theory and the topic mostly is mere numbers. However, with an odd twist, the theorem seems to say something “profound” about the world of mathematics and it’s completeness and/or consistency.
Proofs in the human area are IMO not so tight and applicable. I am have not spent a lot of time in this area, and it is here that I have asked for examples of tight proofs. I suspect they don’t exist.
Proofs in science and math are plenty tight and their applications clear, but they seem to me to always involve ideas that are not so profound in the human area.
My interest in Godel and its possible bridging abilities has diminished in recent years as I have become more familiar with it’s details. It’s still a super interesting area of thought, but I now have less expectations it will help with any breakthroughs in consciousness research.
Godel basically formulated a mathematics theorem for accepting the limitations of human mental models.
If you are truly an admirer of his work, why don't you follow his example and tell us about the limitations of your mental model of PFAL being "God-breathed"?
Hi Mike. That's a more encouraging response than I'd expected. Thank you.
I do have to take issue with you on one point:
It's not so much "will" or "desire" as hearing the deeper heart issues, the words that are not said, the hurt that is not expressed. Sometimes a carefully worded question will elicit further information, and sometimes not. Sometimes the "action that assists" is simply to be there, to sit, to let the person talk - or not. And you listen with your inner heart, listen with as much as you can understand of God's heart. It's called empathy (not at all like sympathy!).
I do not think you will get this level of intimacy at a dance club involving hundreds of people. That's a way of being with people, without actually engaging with them as individuals. In any large group, there is little space for intimacy. Sad to say, people can even go to large churches for years and yet never get engaged or involved with others, and so their needs go unmet.
Twinky, I agree that very small groups (twig size?) are essential to effectively get to individuals.
Sometimes approaching individuals over what blesses their lives and what they are really into is better than approaching them with a view to hurts.Connecting on positives may lead, for some, to deeper hurt ministering later.
I have a suggestion for your dealings with those leaving TWI, or had left long ago, or are still in.The reason they stayed in and got hurt is because there was genuine good there that kept them (us) in, holding noses to tolerate the stink.If you acknowledge that good with them, then they can let go of the bad easier.
I’m talking about a sub-set of those leaving.
I think there are some leaving TWI who agree (somewhat) with me that PFAL was of God. They see it a tangled mess with the ministry machinery and would like to give it all up, but the goodness they see in there (like I see) prevents them from trusting you and the GS landscape.
I think you folks can do better if you advance from the Pure Evil model to a more realistic model. The man did a lot of good when he walked in fellowship, and that is lost in your model of him.
Those younger grads who never saw the real spiritual work (unsupervised by TWI) in the field like many of us did, and who only know of LCM’s monstrosity and afterwards are probably in a different boat. But those older grads who can’t give up TWI because they know there was something worthwhile in PFAL, are IMO, not able to get much help here.
I suggest if a realistic model, and not the Pure Evil one, were entertained then the GS community could help much better those older grads stuck in TWI’s influence. The only reason TWI has this influence is because members are committed to that SOMETHING that is good. Get to know that something and you all can relate together better.
There is a certain momentum involved in my posting style. I honed it 15 years ago. It’s like trying to stop a freight train from my perspective.
There’s also a kind of momentum within posters here, to keep me in my hard hitting style, and I understand that.Whenever we go back to our home town, our old townie friends expect us to be the same person who left town 40 years ago. They tend to drag us back to our former selves.
(SNIP)
Perhaps you might want to re-think your self-described “hard hitting style”; the adjective hard-hitting
usually describes someone as being uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in revealing unpalatable facts; and I have NOT seen much of any of those qualities in your posts.
As examples of some hard-hitting posters being uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in revealing unpalatable facts, you might want to check out these posts:
I’m trying to be as respectful as possible when I say this - what might help to keep your “freight train” on track and have some impact to gain credibility is to do a better job at being honest – like: don’t fabricate stories to impress others…answer direct questions…stay on point if you have something to contribute instead of changing the subject or focus of a discussion…don’t make claims without backing them up…and by all means DO express your opinions and be respectful of other folks’ opinions.
Godel basically formulated a mathematics theorem for accepting the limitations of human mental models.
If you are truly an admirer of his work, why don't you follow his example and tell us about the limitations of your mental model of PFAL being "God-breathed"?
I have already done that, a little here, and a lot in my own mind.
There are things I don't know about it, like it's exact boundaries. I mentioned this here. Examples: the Foreward to ADAN is written by Karen Martin, a very large quote from Kenyon in OMSW, the added Appendix of JCNG.
Another limitation(and posters were constantly missing this, so I repeated it about 6 times) was I was not able to prove that PFAL was God-breathed. I was only proving that vpw had CLAIMED it was.
Now, that proof was pretty significant, even though it didn’t at all prove PFAL to actually BE Good-breathed.What my proof did show was the vpw had said over and over, right under our noses on tape and in print, that PFAL was God-breathed AND WE MISSED IT!
It begs the question: what else did we miss that is in the record?
I think there are some leaving TWI who agree (somewhat) with me that PFAL was of God. They see it a tangled mess with the ministry machinery and would like to give it all up, but the goodness they see in there (like I see) prevents them from trusting you and the GS landscape.
I think you folks can do better if you advance from the Pure Evil model to a more realistic model. The man did a lot of good when he walked in fellowship, and that is lost in your model of him.
I think that the Board of Directors could do better if they advanced from the Pure Whitewash model to a more realistic model. If they were actually humble, and accepted input from other members it would improve the quality. But they don't, and won't, because they have sacrificed their lives to obtain the highest level of power they have in the little podunc organization and their pride and ego keeps them there.
Statements like "PFAL was of God" - while nice feeling and sounding, it has no level of detail within it. Of course God, constrained by stupid choices in youth and enamoration with flim-flam like scripture manipulation, had to work with something. Reading scriptures, seeking God - all of those things were and are genuine motivations and actions.
That was the foundation that people used to assert their authority over me. The Way asserts authority over the individual to a far greater extent than your normal community church does.
Now the organization no longer does any Biblical research, yet has that in their organization title. Splinter groups vie for relevancy and anyone to pay attention to them and send them money.
Is it good that I studied scripture, pursued a relationship with God, and tried to treat people well when I was in the Way? Of course. But I think the whole "God led me there" is a violation in understanding of freedom of will. I chose to take PFAL, rather than continuing on in a different Christian venue or other religious pursuit. When I made that choice, God worked with it to bring the best outcome possible with the choices I made.
The question remains not for condemning myself but for a more efficient plan for the future, if I would have made a different choice, what better outcomes could God have provided for my life?
I have already done that, a little here, and a lot in my own mind.
There are things I don't know about it, like it's exact boundaries. I mentioned this here. Examples: the Foreward to ADAN is written by Karen Martin, a very large quote from Kenyon in OMSW, the added Appendix of JCNG.
Another limitation(and posters were constantly missing this, so I repeated it about 6 times) was I was not able to prove that PFAL was God-breathed. I was only proving that vpw had CLAIMED it was.
Now, that proof was pretty significant, even though it didn’t at all prove PFAL to actually BE Good-breathed.What my proof did show was the vpw had said over and over, right under our noses on tape and in print, that PFAL was God-breathed AND WE MISSED IT!
It begs the question: what else did we miss that is in the record?
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Twinky
I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL. I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading th
Twinky
Mike, please re-read the first two posts when I opened this thread. You indicated that you had been re-reading heart-rending stories on old threads and your understanding was growing. So this thread
Twinky
Well, this thread has wandered off point somewhat. This was the point: I'm seeing lots of defensiveness from Mike, but nothing about empathy or understanding about the hurt caused by TWI.
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GoldStar
Oh my!
Edited by GoldStarRepentance
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T-Bone
I hope no one takes this the wrong way - - I just found this so funny
Gold Star joined Grease Spot about an hour ago…comes to this thread…and for their FIRST post - I’m guessing this is just Gold Star’s startled reaction to Twinky’s post…”oh my!”
anyway…
welcome to Grease Spot, Gold Star
uhm….it’s not always like this (whatever that means
) hope you stick around awhile and enjoy reading – and if you feel like it - share some too.
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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JayDee
Welcome GoldStar
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, good advice, but Mike won't take it. He is like that fool in the WH; he loves attention, good or bad. Mike has to be the center of attention, in order to function.
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Mike
I do not see that this says, Love a book (not even a bible) - not love PFAL.
Hi Twinky,
Love certainly is what it’s all about. That, or a similar verse comes up in the first 10 minutes of the film class. Since I took the class to heart, I naturally took that idea of loving God first and then neighbor as self to heart. I still do.
One of the things that I did early in my experiences with that verse was track it down. I wanted to know where Jesus got that from. It wasn’t hard. From memory I think it was Deut 6. but I’m avoiding a lot of quotations right now.
Right after Moses toldIsrael
Long ago, when we carried green cards in our Bibles, I would tell people that we love God the same basic way we love people: we listen to hear their will, and we act on that will. Not so coincidentally, this is also the heart of entrepreneurship.
***
I do see that it requires some practical application, otherwise, how else will you love your neighbour? By reading the house number on the letter box?
.Yes, I agree. The “acting on another’s will” I mentioned means first determining what their need or yearning is, and then finding actions that assist in that.
How do you love yourself? Is it by reading your diary? Or is it by being kind to yourself, and trying to understand your own strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical needs. Do you seek warm clothes and a roof over your head, in bad weather?
.Yes, again I agree. I look to what is needed in my life for me to be able to love others.
***
Help someone less fortunate. Do you enjoy sufficient food every week? Help someone who has less. Do you get help or companionship at your "low times"? Come alongside someone who needs that help or companionship.
.More agreement.
However, this kind of behavior has not been a primary focus of my public posting here. In my private communications with posters here things are a lot different. In my personal life things are a lot different.
I have hundreds of customers that I try to regard as friends of varying closeness. My application of love there is not trivial. Same with neighbors in my apartment complex. I belong to a dance club that involves hundreds of people and all kinds of social giving and receiving. I’ve found I can give companionship where it is needed most.
It may be the case that, for me, a public GreaseSpot application of the principle of love may not be as possible as it is in other areas of my life. I mentioned before that I do actually come here in love, post words of love as I see it, and have to hold my nose for a lot of my applications of it. If I succeed in transmitting one of God’s ideas here, then that is love. I regret the messiness, and am doing my best to clean it up.
***
Put the book down, Mike, and leave the internet alone. Take a couple of months off and spend that time engaging in a meaningful way with the people around you.
.Good advice. I’m glad to say I have followed it a lot already, and often. I put GreaseSPot down for 10 years. My posting is not even one tenth the volume it was, and I am slowly driving it down as we speak.
I am having a great time with the people around me, honest. For the past 5 years I have been enjoying many open doors in my work and in my play.
***
There is a certain momentum involved in my posting style. I honed it 15 years ago. It’s like trying to stop a freight train from my perspective.
There’s also a kind of momentum within posters here, to keep me in my hard hitting style, and I understand that. Whenever we go back to our home town, our old townie friends expect us to be the same person who left town 40 years ago. They tend to drag us back to our former selves.
I think both of these momenta are diminishing. Thank you for your patience.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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Twinky
Hi Mike. That's a more encouraging response than I'd expected. Thank you.
I do have to take issue with you on one point:
It's not so much "will" or "desire" as hearing the deeper heart issues, the words that are not said, the hurt that is not expressed. Sometimes a carefully worded question will elicit further information, and sometimes not. Sometimes the "action that assists" is simply to be there, to sit, to let the person talk - or not. And you listen with your inner heart, listen with as much as you can understand of God's heart. It's called empathy (not at all like sympathy!).
I do not think you will get this level of intimacy at a dance club involving hundreds of people. That's a way of being with people, without actually engaging with them as individuals. In any large group, there is little space for intimacy. Sad to say, people can even go to large churches for years and yet never get engaged or involved with others, and so their needs go unmet.
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OldSkool
To whomever: can we stop spamming up the threads with colored fonts and all? The forums have a quote function that makes it easy to read along. Unless one's intent is to obfuscate threads, the quote function does wonders
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Twinky
You're not into bright colors, OS?
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OldSkool
Rofl!
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So_crates
You probably gave away more information about yourself then you wanted to when you thought the purpose of the proofs I outlined were to win arguments.
First, of they can be used in that type of arguing, but it wasn't my intent.
My intent was to give you the build blocks for presenting your case. They can be strung together in any order.
The elements also don't have to be how they're laid out on the cheat sheet. They can be positive or negative or any combination as long as the form is retained.
The only reason I used negatives is to prove to you that it is possible to prove a negative.
I'm afraid winning an argument takes a little more than mons ponens or mons tollens.
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T-Bone
And remember the rule for font size: small fonts are for small minds…big fonts are for big minds…and I guess medium fonts are for communicating with the minds of the dead.
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Mike
For people with difficulty seeing, color/bold/sized fonts can make for easier reading.
Also, I find when a lot of detail is happening, with lots of back and forth quoting, colors help in sorting out who said what.
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Rocky
Don't blame anyone else for your choices.
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Mike
Please don't read that much blame in there.
I see is as normal human mechanics. Just a little momentum.
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OldSkool
So put the colors within the quote.
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Rocky
I see it as you blaming others for "dragging us back to our former selves." Honestly, nobody can force you to hold on to your former self, or to grow for that matter.
Edited by RockyI understand that we influence each other's actions, but really nobody is responsible for your actions other than you yourself.
I appreciate that you don't want anyone to blame you. But if you want to make the case more convincing, don't try to shift that responsibility to others.
Reference Mistakes were made, but not by me. It's fundamental human behavior and a pervasive psychological defense mechanism.
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Mike
I was taking the bulk of the blame.
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chockfull
Godel basically formulated a mathematics theorem for accepting the limitations of human mental models.
If you are truly an admirer of his work, why don't you follow his example and tell us about the limitations of your mental model of PFAL being "God-breathed"?
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Mike
Twinky, I agree that very small groups (twig size?) are essential to effectively get to individuals.
Sometimes approaching individuals over what blesses their lives and what they are really into is better than approaching them with a view to hurts. Connecting on positives may lead, for some, to deeper hurt ministering later.
I have a suggestion for your dealings with those leaving TWI, or had left long ago, or are still in. The reason they stayed in and got hurt is because there was genuine good there that kept them (us) in, holding noses to tolerate the stink. If you acknowledge that good with them, then they can let go of the bad easier.
I’m talking about a sub-set of those leaving.
I think there are some leaving TWI who agree (somewhat) with me that PFAL was of God. They see it a tangled mess with the ministry machinery and would like to give it all up, but the goodness they see in there (like I see) prevents them from trusting you and the GS landscape.
I think you folks can do better if you advance from the Pure Evil model to a more realistic model. The man did a lot of good when he walked in fellowship, and that is lost in your model of him.
Those younger grads who never saw the real spiritual work (unsupervised by TWI) in the field like many of us did, and who only know of LCM’s monstrosity and afterwards are probably in a different boat. But those older grads who can’t give up TWI because they know there was something worthwhile in PFAL, are IMO, not able to get much help here.
I suggest if a realistic model, and not the Pure Evil one, were entertained then the GS community could help much better those older grads stuck in TWI’s influence. The only reason TWI has this influence is because members are committed to that SOMETHING that is good. Get to know that something and you all can relate together better.
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T-Bone
Perhaps you might want to re-think your self-described “hard hitting style”; the adjective hard-hitting
usually describes someone as being uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in revealing unpalatable facts; and I have NOT seen much of any of those qualities in your posts.
As examples of some hard-hitting posters being uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in revealing unpalatable facts, you might want to check out these posts:
The wierwille legacy who will write the book?
TWI began its independent undeertaking Dec 19 1957
vpw truths lies reasons motives
original letter sent to TWI by top leaders leaving
what is the purpose of da corps training
The Way - Living in Wonderland
vp and me in wonderland
a vpw historical timeline
== == == ==
I’m trying to be as respectful as possible when I say this - what might help to keep your “freight train” on track and have some impact to gain credibility is to do a better job at being honest – like: don’t fabricate stories to impress others…answer direct questions…stay on point if you have something to contribute instead of changing the subject or focus of a discussion…don’t make claims without backing them up…and by all means DO express your opinions and be respectful of other folks’ opinions.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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Mike
I have already done that, a little here, and a lot in my own mind.
There are things I don't know about it, like it's exact boundaries. I mentioned this here. Examples: the Foreward to ADAN is written by Karen Martin, a very large quote from Kenyon in OMSW, the added Appendix of JCNG.
Another limitation (and posters were constantly missing this, so I repeated it about 6 times) was I was not able to prove that PFAL was God-breathed. I was only proving that vpw had CLAIMED it was.
Now, that proof was pretty significant, even though it didn’t at all prove PFAL to actually BE Good-breathed. What my proof did show was the vpw had said over and over, right under our noses on tape and in print, that PFAL was God-breathed AND WE MISSED IT!
It begs the question: what else did we miss that is in the record?
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chockfull
I think that the Board of Directors could do better if they advanced from the Pure Whitewash model to a more realistic model. If they were actually humble, and accepted input from other members it would improve the quality. But they don't, and won't, because they have sacrificed their lives to obtain the highest level of power they have in the little podunc organization and their pride and ego keeps them there.
Statements like "PFAL was of God" - while nice feeling and sounding, it has no level of detail within it. Of course God, constrained by stupid choices in youth and enamoration with flim-flam like scripture manipulation, had to work with something. Reading scriptures, seeking God - all of those things were and are genuine motivations and actions.
That was the foundation that people used to assert their authority over me. The Way asserts authority over the individual to a far greater extent than your normal community church does.
Now the organization no longer does any Biblical research, yet has that in their organization title. Splinter groups vie for relevancy and anyone to pay attention to them and send them money.
Is it good that I studied scripture, pursued a relationship with God, and tried to treat people well when I was in the Way? Of course. But I think the whole "God led me there" is a violation in understanding of freedom of will. I chose to take PFAL, rather than continuing on in a different Christian venue or other religious pursuit. When I made that choice, God worked with it to bring the best outcome possible with the choices I made.
The question remains not for condemning myself but for a more efficient plan for the future, if I would have made a different choice, what better outcomes could God have provided for my life?
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Mike
Thanks for the tip (reaching for my Thesaurus).
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chockfull
Aluminum siding.
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