I'm glad I never suffered under Pontius Wierwille. I suffered under the reign of the Dancing Prez. Burdens? My lord, when I hear what some of the early Corps got up to, I wonder how on earth you had the liberty.
Practically every minute of in rez time in the 90s was buttoned down very tightly. LCM was twice the child of hell, as it were. As in this statement, by Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
"Woe to you, Phariseeical President, VPW, hypocrite, because you travel around on sea and land to make one President; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourself."
"Woe to you, Phariseeical President, VPW, hypocrite, because you travel around on sea and land to make one President; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourself."
So many failures by veepee.............
Zero Corps program........[check]
Instilled "Lock-Box" teaching as a Principled Pillar.........[check]
Built on a Foundation of Unaccountability to Anyone.........[check]
Tried to Update Teaching/Filming of foundational class at PFAL '77........[check]
No Accreditation at The Way College of Emporia...........[check]
Lauding Camp Gunnison as Premier Vacation Spot and Restaurant for Way Believers...........[check]
Sent out corps letters as stop-gap of hemorrhaging corps grads.............[check]
The Sno-Way.......an all-terrain vehicle attempt-built by Grumelot and another Family Corps guy......[check]
Putting Mantle on Martindale as 2nd prez...............hahahahahahaha.............[check]
Word in Culture........Fine Arts House, "Cultural Center," High Country Caravan, etc........splat....[check]
The Victors Quartet..................nothing like killing off youthful zeal..........LOL.......[check]
Athlete of the Spirit terminology......---> AOS Production.........oops......[check]
Corps Exploitation and Labor at corps wk/roa.........not sustainable........[check]
Pharisaic Example of "Desiring to be Seen & Served".................[check]
NO demonstrating God's Power to the people.......NONE............[check]
Flaunting Smoking/Drinking at late night corps mtgs..............[check]
Used Motor Coach for Sexual Predation..............[check]
Wrecked Twig-Hopper in Ontario and silenced all to secrecy.......[check]
Lies and Cover-up of Cause of Death.....CANCER...........[check]
Mystique of "man of god"...........like dust in the wind........[check]
Hardship and Burdens............were heaped upon corps grads and advanced class followers with each passing year.
<snip>............ When I was in Canada as the country coordinator.......I had many of these conversations with way corps in Vancouver, B.C. and Calgary, Alberta. It was a HUGE deal to take 3-weeks off EACH YEAR for corps wk/roa.
One corps grad in Vancouver, British Columbia was struggling with financial burdens and trying to keep pace with attending yearly corps week/roa. She had this amazing, genuine heart to serve others.......giving thanks to her lord and savior, Jesus Christ......to be there for others.
So, when it came to my attention that she needed $4,000 for dental work........I addressed this matter at our next executive meeting. [Yes, in Canada......we had a three-member executive board to discuss business and financial decisions. Each year, The Way of Canada paid an audit firm to do a thorough, in-depth yearly audit of our books. Thus, we were tasked with submitting official *meeting minutes* from our executive board to the audit firm.]
Without hesitation, we authorized this $4,000 payment/gift to enable this wonderful corps grad to get the best dental care available. And, if she needed more......that was absolutely available. And, it brought great joy to our hearts to see her beautiful smile once again.
June Marie Casey...........one of the finest disciples of Christ I ever knew.
.............Sadly, she died in a car accident about 17 years later or so [2003 or 2004].
One corps grad in Vancouver, British Columbia was struggling with financial burdens and trying to keep pace with attending yearly corps week/roa. She had this amazing, genuine heart to serve others.......giving thanks to her lord and savior, Jesus Christ......to be there for others.
So, when it came to my attention that she needed $4,000 for dental work........I addressed this matter at our next executive meeting. [Yes, in Canada......we had a three-member executive board to discuss business and financial decisions. Each year, The Way of Canada paid an audit firm to do a thorough, in-depth yearly audit of our books. Thus, we were tasked with submitting official *meeting minutes* from our executive board to the audit firm.]
Without hesitation, we authorized this $4,000 payment/gift to enable this wonderful corps grad to get the best dental care available. And, if she needed more......that was absolutely available. And, it brought great joy to our hearts to see her beautiful smile once again.
June Marie Casey...........one of the finest disciples of Christ I ever knew.
.............Sadly, she died in a car accident about 17 years later or so [2003 or 2004].
The Way of Canada is a financial loophole like all International Outreach. All monies there are managed locally - Canada, Democratic Republic of Congo, South America, etc. I suspect this is because of tax code scrutiny on VP where he didn't want to have to deal with international giving or something.
Because of this good-hearted people were able to help others in other countries than the US. This was not possible in the United States.
Money in the United States for expenses worked on a strict approval level. If I remember correctly, state coordinators could approve up to $100, Region coordinators to $300, and Trunk Office to $500. Anything more required Board of Dummies signatures. Any request of this type of nature would have been squashed by the state level, and definitely by the region level. They are reluctant to spend money even on meeting spaces, driving people to go with free options. Basically a leech on society. I remember the trunk office not even approving normal type expenses.
The Way of Canada is a financial loophole like all International Outreach. All monies there are managed locally - Canada, Democratic Republic of Congo, South America, etc. I suspect this is because of tax code scrutiny on VP where he didn't want to have to deal with international giving or something.
Because of this good-hearted people were able to help others in other countries than the US. This was not possible in the United States.
Money in the United States for expenses worked on a strict approval level. If I remember correctly, state coordinators could approve up to $100, Region coordinators to $300, and Trunk Office to $500. Anything more required Board of Dummies signatures. Any request of this type of nature would have been squashed by the state level, and definitely by the region level. They are reluctant to spend money even on meeting spaces, driving people to go with free options. Basically a leech on society. I remember the trunk office not even approving normal type expenses.
Yes, Chockfull......The Way of Canada was/is registered as a non-profit entity under Canadian governance. All monies (donations/gifts/tithes) stayed in Canada and were documented and all expenses coded under strict restraints in formal ledger and end-of-year accounting. Then, The Way of Canada submitted these records to a yearly audit by a reputable accounting firm. As I remember, the fee of $5,000 for annual audit was deemed a prudent investment to keep The Way of Canada in good standing with governing officials.
In retelling this experience and situation in Canada, I am reminded of the "giving and receiving" that I experienced during those three years in Canada. Quite honestly, it seemed like we used way magazines, teaching tapes and yearly themes from twi as a guideline rather than dogma. From Moncton, New Brunswick to Vancouver, British Columbia........there were pockets of believers who didn't care a whit about what was happening at twi's headquarters. The language barriers, the subcultures and demographics of Toronto and Montreal, most notably....... added a vast array of challenges and "liberties," for sure.
As you stated above, the Board of Dummies were heavy-handed in exploiting the people........and therefore, limb/region guys didn't have the opportunity that I had. Perhaps, if I'd "run it up the flagpole" all the way to Howard Allen, who oversaw I.O. ..........he might have shot it down. But.......I didn't ask him.
I believed that I was walking with God.......and allocating the $4,000 for dental work to a corps grad in need was what I did.
Again......I was trying to walk in his steps [Luke 4:18].
When I graduated from the corpse (4th), my assignment was VP of the Way of MI and State WOW Coordinator. I had 20 WOW families in 10 different cities, each pair coordinated by Interim 6th corpse. There were only 6 interim corpse college WOWS, who coordinated College WOW wayhomes at MSU, Uof MI, and Ferris State College, and University of Detroit. Of those 20 WOW families, 2 were in Detroit city, and there were 2 families in the Detroit suburbs of Livonia, Warren, Dearborn, and an interim family corpse couple with a group of 3 twigs in the City. I lived just north of the city in Berkeley, MI. I had an interim corpse WOW meeting for all the interim corpse WOWS once a month in my apt in Berkley. They were fabulous, and we all became very close friends. Word got out, and then all the rest of the corpses in the state wanted to come too. So, after a buncha hoohey from Ken Brown, turd corpse LC, it was opened to any corpse who wanted to attend.
At the second one of those monthly meetings, we decided we'd do a weekly SNS for the Detroit Area. We started on Anniversary Sunday, 1976, with about 80 people, including all the WOWS & corpse. At the December meeting, we had over 350, and never looked back!
When I first got involved with TWIt, in Long Island and Rye, NY in 1970, when we used to pass the horns at fellowships (not called "Twigs yet!), both Steve Heefner (LC) and Steve Perez each used to say before passing the horn, "If you are in serious need of $, take out whatever will help you get through tonight and tomorrow." We had petty cash for ministry expenses, and ALL the ABS was kept in the local branches and areas until all the bills were paid, our meager "salaries" fluctuated with the ABS, which many times meant that our total weekly salary was $10-20. However, whenever there was an emergent need among the fellowships, ABS was used to pay Dr./Hospital bills, buy food or clothing for homeless folks who came to fellowship, pay for refreshments and food at classes and Sunday night meetings every week, etc. Sometimes we even gave people the $45 "donation" so they could take the class and repay when they got back on their feet. Those decisions were made at the Branch and Area levels. At the end of the month, whatever was left over, we sent to the Limb in Rye. Those amounts rose dramatically from month to month, and the same was done by Heefner for the whole Limb every month. How much we sent was determined by how much came in, and since we emptied the bank accounts every month, that was a lot of moolah, and everybody was happy, except dictor. When he saw the amount of $ coming in from just NY, he wanted it all for himself. So, with the help of none other than Christopher Geer, dictor and coward Allen, fired Heefner and the limb staff he brought with him from CA, during the Advanced Class in Rye in March of 1972. Boob and Doody MoneyHands came in with Gary Frederick to take over the limb, close all branch and area bank accounts in the state other than the Limb, and change over to blue forms and the way tree structure. Perez quit, and all the rest of us fulltimers (2 of us, Ed Goebel and myself) quit and got jobs. The Way of Long Island was broken into just the Nassau and Suffolk branches, Brooklyn/Queens became a separate area, and the Bronx branch was run by a guy named Steffen Emerick. I ran the Bklyn/Queens area, and refused to take any salary. I ran it the way I was taught by Heefner and Perez, and it boomed. I NEVER told Moynihan what I was doing. I just gathered the blue forms and cash from the branches and deposited them all directly into the one Limb account. Since the area was booming, I never got any complaints.
So, getting back to MI, when we started the weekly Sunday Area meetings, I had all this abundant sharing to send to the limb, checks and cash. I kept a couple of hundred dollars cash in my apt. and used it as the needs arose among the corpse and their WOWS. For example, the interim family corpse couple had 2 young daughters living in the heart of Detroit the summer after the Cobo riots. Well, mommy got pregnant again, which meant they could not re-enter the corpse. So, to help them out, I paid their medical bills from the delivery and their rent for 3 months, from that ABS stash I kept. Sometimes, WOWS couldn't pay their rent or buy decent food, so i'd pay it from my stash. I even paid for a WOW apprentice corpse to have an abortion when her corpse leader got her pregnant, so she could go into the corpse as planned. To me, THIS was the PUREST and most Christ-like use of ABS for ANYTHING!! I still feel that way.
Well.....Bo Reahard was the Trunk guy and the Midwest region guy too. So, he came for a visit in March, and I had him teach at the Detroit SNS. When we got back to my apt, he watched me prepare The ABS to send to the limb. I took out my $200 cash, and zipped up the remaining cash, checks, and coins into a bank pouch with the blue form to take to the limb. Bo wanted to know what the cash was for, and I told him. He asked me if Ken Brown knew about this. I said "No, why? I didn't think i needed to tell him." Well he calls Ken Brown and then rips me a new one for "stealing the ABS"! I called his bullshit, bullshit, and he said he was gonna tell dictor when he got back to HQ. I said, "Good! Tell him to call me and tell me I'm stealing his ABS!"
Well, I get a phone call 2 days later from dictor himself! He's got Bo in his office "so he can hear this too". Then he says: "Son, you're right and Bo is full-of-shit like you told him! THAT IS the best use of our ABS and you just go right ahead and keep on doing the right thing, OK?? OK BO??". Then, in harmony comes 2 "yessirs"!! LOL! Then he puts Bo on the phone! Bo says, "You were right. I'm sorry for falsely accusing you. When I hang up, I'm calling Ken Brown to tell him the same thing." I said "thanks Bo, I love ya!"
Throughout my entire time in TWIt, at every level of the verkackte Way tree I served in, I did exactly the same thing! And NO ONE, not even Coward or Ding Dong ever said another word to me. There are people still living because of that, who would have been dead, maimed, or arrested. I never used any of those monies for any personal needs or purchases for anybody. I distributed to each as there was need. AND, IT WORKED!
i watched dictor and da Forehead take baskets and baskets of ABS from various large meetings and stuff it all in brown shopping bags and take it onto the coach never to be seen again. I watched them splurge on themselves and their corpse girls.....gifts, booze, drugs, bribes, and "contributions to their lockboxes"! I confronted da Forehead several times, and accomplished NOTHING. That one time on the phone with dictor and Bo was the ONLY time I ever talked about it with dictor.
So, what Skyrider was doing was absolutely "right-on" as far as dictor and Howard were concerned. Even though it could never have been done under da forehead's reign here in the USA, Skyrider being in Canada and having a pair.....did the right thing. If only there were more who had the guts to do the right thing, which, as usual, meant going against HQ and the board of terrorists, perhaps fewer people would have endured life-altering hurts and pains. We'll never know. Thanks for reading!.........peace.
Damn straight, DWBH......................you rock !!
THAT is what leadership looks like......and should have been taught and detailed in corps training. LOVE in all of its manifestations helping others.......caring for the weak and vulnerable, ministering to the wounded souls, fighting against those who ravage the flock, leading them to "still waters and green pastures," replenishing their souls with righteous nutrition, etc. etc. In essence, to follow in the steps of Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd.
In Canada, from March 1984 - April 1987.........my wife and I embraced our duties of ministering/oversight of the Canadian brethren with every fiber of our beings. We deemed it an honor and privilege of a lifetime to serve them. The only reason that our tenure was 3 years......was because our work visas had expired and the Canadian government officials would not extend them. The country coordinators before us were Americans, Danny and Rhonda Stephenson, [3 years]........and then, we had 3 years. The visa/immigration/custom officers terminated our visa status at the end of March 1987.........and then, Randy and Diane Ginn [Canadian birthright citizen] assumed the duties.
Here at GreaseSpot Café.........we document the multi-layered fabric of micro-management, legalism and abuse on countless threads. BUT..........THERE WAS A TIME AND PLACE when those things were not so. Canada, for a number of years, was young, vibrant, sharing, loving........without the tentacles of spiritual overlords and mandates. Each year, we had a "Western Canadian Advance" and "Eastern Canadian Advance" that were like a 3-day family gathering of hugs, fun, laughter, prayer/healing, outdoor games, short vibrant evening teachings, and capped the Saturday night with a two-hour songs/talent/skit night. Nearly everyone got involved......and lots of us stayed up till 2am hanging out together, because we just didn't want to go to bed. Love saturated these wonderful times. We had corps and believers in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Windsor, London, Toronto, Mississauga, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City and other small hamlets ......most notably around Ontario.
During our tenure, the outreach and ABS grew near 300%.........as we stayed valiant for the truth.
In confidence, I had many corps and believers tell me that our "Canadian Advances" were far superior to the rock of ages in ohio.
Hardship and Burdens............were heaped upon corps grads and advanced class followers with each passing year.
The fact that there is a 21-page (and counting) discussion on "the secret messaging of wierwille's writings" is sleight-of-hand and moot............in my opinion. The Scriptures give us explicit examples and warn us to beware of this type of deception and seduction. Words and fair speeches without confirming results are little more than intellectually theorizing intent.
OMG.......wierwille could NOT do what he claimed. Not one time did I ever see him operate "the big SIX manifestations." I have posted of an incident in the BRC where he adamantly proclaimed an 8th corps guy was possessed with devil spirits.......YET, wierwille did nothing but yell, fume and stomp out. Pppfffftttt.
THE REASON CORPS STARTED EXITING...............more rapidly by 1980-->.........was hardships and burdens. The burden to attend corps week and roa each year was unsustainable. Anyone with a modicum of empathy for these increasing burdens could SEE THIS. When I was in Canada as the country coordinator.......I had many of these conversations with way corps in Vancouver, B.C. and Calgary, Alberta. It was a HUGE deal to take 3-weeks off EACH YEAR for corps wk/roa.
As more corps married........more pregnancies, more babies. Reality was at the front door. Corps grads needed a career path that would strengthen and sustain their families. The burdens to keep apace with the cult-mandates was escalating.
Maybe, that is why I highlight the Luke 4:18 reference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't care how many times someone tries to explain to me "the secret writings of wierwille"............the man was a narcissist, a drunkard, a predator and a bully. He fits every description of a "senses man" drunk on power. I loathe everything about him.......his deception, his cloak of authority, his plagiarism, his sexual predation over corps women I knew and his unrepentant wantonness.
As for the three weeks off- If you had to quit your job to go to Corps Week and The Rock, how were you supposed to get another job when you went home that gave you three weeks off? And then you'd have to quit THAT job the next year if they didn't give you 3 weeks and be right back in the same situation. And that would just make it harder and harder every year because your job history sucked after never spending a decent amount of time at a job as a loyal employee. People at the top and at HQ had no clue and they were the ones telling us what to do!
ANYONE with common-sense management skills, proper discernment and empathy for others........COULD SEE that this "high-speed train" was going to derail.
Imagine........year after year, you are REQUIRED to take 3 weeks leave of pay......THEN work-for-free at corps wk/roa.
Then.............drive home, and have added stress at work to catch up......OR.........need to find new employment
And...............if you were married and had little kids, you were separated from them (mostly) during this time
Also...............what about your OWN family??......parents/siblings/nieces/nephews........reunions/weddings/funerals/birthday celebrations
The corps couples who started having children............of course, parents wanted to see them and spend time with NEW GRANDBABIES
The demands and restraints put upon the corps by wierwille was IN-YOUR-FACE EXPLOITATION.
There was NO WAY this was going to continue.......and each year, more and more corps drifted away. Understandably !!
Wierwille was a narcissistic bully.........with NO compassion or christian character. NONE.
The cult was DIVIDING families............the cult was ANTI-family.
ANYONE with common-sense management skills, proper discernment and empathy for others........COULD SEE that this "high-speed train" was going to derail.
Imagine........year after year, you are REQUIRED to take 3 weeks leave of pay......THEN work-for-free at corps wk/roa.
Then.............drive home, and have added stress at work to catch up......OR.........need to find new employment
And...............if you were married and had little kids, you were separated from them (mostly) during this time
Also...............what about your OWN family??......parents/siblings/nieces/nephews........reunions/weddings/funerals/birthday celebrations
The corps couples who started having children............of course, parents wanted to see them and spend time with NEW GRANDBABIES
The demands and restraints put upon the corps by wierwille was IN-YOUR-FACE EXPLOITATION.
There was NO WAY this was going to continue.......and each year, more and more corps drifted away. Understandably !!
Wierwille was a narcissistic bully.........with NO compassion or christian character. NONE.
The cult was DIVIDING families............the cult was ANTI-family.
It was one story with 20 something hippy children. However, as people like you say started getting married and popping out little ones who needed them to have a steady job, they started dropping off like flies.
Wierwille wanted his free love 60s exploitive Jesus movement to continue well beyond the boundaries of logic, marriage, family, employment, and community. Well beyond the ability of his own even aging body to respond to it.
That's the foundation of your Way ministry right there, new people. That's what is behind the "Timothy" statue in the auditorium lobby and the foundational class you are sitting through right now.
Even though there has been time and a lot of whitewash applied.
As for the three weeks off- If you had to quit your job to go to Corps Week and The Rock, how were you supposed to get another job when you went home that gave you three weeks off? And then you'd have to quit THAT job the next year if they didn't give you 3 weeks and be right back in the same situation. And that would just make it harder and harder every year because your job history sucked after never spending a decent amount of time at a job as a loyal employee. People at the top and at HQ had no clue and they were the ones telling us what to do!
I totally remember a WOW year where this happened. I was in manufacturing. I was laid off on a mandatory company shutdown over 2 weeks in July. Then in August for Corpse Week / ROA I was back working on a no vacation mandatory policy. I had to quit to attend CF/ROA.
Not only this, I remember the distinct privilege of being reamed out because I only volunteered for a 4 hour shift at the ROA on a few days. During the only vacation I would have that year or any other year. How nice. The person reaming worked in the Way of the USA tent where he "worked 14 hour days". Funny every time I would stop by there were about 3 nice looking girls assigned to run to get him food. He was mostly lounging sitting down. And he got to BS with his friends and occasionally counsel someone to step up their haircuts to get their WOW money together. Also, he took his multi-week Way earned staff vacation every year. That was the stomping ground of one of the current Board of Directors.
So, what Skyrider was doing was absolutely "right-on" as far as dictor and Howard were concerned. Even though it could never have been done under da forehead's reign here in the USA, Skyrider being in Canada and having a pair.....did the right thing. If only there were more who had the guts to do the right thing, which, as usual, meant going against HQ and the board of terrorists, perhaps fewer people would have endured life-altering hurts and pains. We'll never know. Thanks for reading!.........peace.
I wanted to thank you for your heart and work in doing what was right in your time and ongoing into today. I agree with your conclusion and can only with you tell the truth now.
It was one story with 20 something hippy children. However, as people like you say started getting married and popping out little ones who needed them to have a steady job, they started dropping off like flies.
Wierwille wanted his free love 60s exploitive Jesus movement to continue well beyond the boundaries of logic, marriage, family, employment, and community. Well beyond the ability of his own even aging body to respond to it.
That's the foundation of your Way ministry right there, new people. That's what is behind the "Timothy" statue in the auditorium lobby and the foundational class you are sitting through right now.
Even though there has been time and a lot of whitewash applied.
That was the thing. There were genuine Christians doing things, young and naive. vpw went and convinced them he was some great one and turned them into his recruiting arm. After that, he expected them to be his property for life. Otherwise, he'd have expected they'd all have to take care of their families as time passed (it's in the Bible, folks!) His absence of such thinking indicated he expected them to subordinate their entire lives to twi and whatever he wanted.
That was the thing. There were genuine Christians doing things, young and naive. vpw went and convinced them he was some great one and turned them into his recruiting arm. After that, he expected them to be his property for life. Otherwise, he'd have expected they'd all have to take care of their families as time passed (it's in the Bible, folks!) His absence of such thinking indicated he expected them to subordinate their entire lives to twi and whatever he wanted.
Yes.......in my opinion, there were genuine Christians, young and old, intermingled and serving in wierwille's minus-try. There were dozens of older staff at hq serving in positions of support services who'd come from surrounding denominational churches. And, remember.......in the early 70s, singing all those songs, "Yes, it is Jesus" and "My Jesus, I love thee" and "How Great Thou Art"......etc. etc.
By 1977, 1978...........the Blue Song Book was replaced. Teachings became more "us versus them" and "crowns at the bema."
~~~~~~~~~
Regarding wierwille "expecting others to be his property for life" or his "absence of such thinking".........may not have even surfaced in his mind.
From all indications short of having wierwille clinically diagnosed of Narcissistic Personality Disorder........his life displayed all the symptoms. For example, those with npd have these associated features:
People with NPD tend to exaggerate their skills and accomplishments as well as their level of intimacy with people they consider to be high-status. Their sense of superiority may cause them to monopolize conversations[9] and to become impatient or disdainful when others talk about themselves.[6] In the course of a conversation, they may purposefully or unknowingly disparage or devalue the other person by overemphasizing their own success. When they are aware that their statements have hurt someone else, they tend to react with contempt and to view it as a sign of weakness.[6] When their own ego is wounded by a real or perceived criticism, their anger can be disproportionate to the situation,[9] but typically, their actions and responses are deliberate and calculated.[6] Despite occasional flare-ups of insecurity, their self-image is primarily stable (i.e., overinflated).[6]
Whether purposefully expecting the corps to subordinate their entire lives......OR......unknowingly disparage corps and others, wierwille was a narcissist to the core.
In biblical terms, wierwille was a false teacher, a deceiver.
Yes.......in my opinion, there were genuine Christians, young and old, intermingled and serving in wierwille's minus-try. There were dozens of older staff at hq serving in positions of support services who'd come from surrounding denominational churches. And, remember.......in the early 70s, singing all those songs, "Yes, it is Jesus" and "My Jesus, I love thee" and "How Great Thou Art"......etc. etc.
By 1977, 1978...........the Blue Song Book was replaced. Teachings became more "us versus them" and "crowns at the bema."
~~~~~~~~~
Regarding wierwille "expecting others to be his property for life" or his "absence of such thinking".........may not have even surfaced in his mind.
From all indications short of having wierwille clinically diagnosed of Narcissistic Personality Disorder........his life displayed all the symptoms. For example, those with npd have these associated features:
People with NPD tend to exaggerate their skills and accomplishments as well as their level of intimacy with people they consider to be high-status. Their sense of superiority may cause them to monopolize conversations[9] and to become impatient or disdainful when others talk about themselves.[6] In the course of a conversation, they may purposefully or unknowingly disparage or devalue the other person by overemphasizing their own success. When they are aware that their statements have hurt someone else, they tend to react with contempt and to view it as a sign of weakness.[6] When their own ego is wounded by a real or perceived criticism, their anger can be disproportionate to the situation,[9] but typically, their actions and responses are deliberate and calculated.[6] Despite occasional flare-ups of insecurity, their self-image is primarily stable (i.e., overinflated).[6]
Whether purposefully expecting the corps to subordinate their entire lives......OR......unknowingly disparage corps and others, wierwille was a narcissist to the core.
In biblical terms, wierwille was a false teacher, a deceiver.
In modern terms, wierwille was a narcissist.
I think we're saying the same thing using different reasons. His narcissism was the reason he expected to own them for life. To a narcissist, they're not people, they're THINGS. Once he acquired the THINGS (the Christians), he expected he owned them for life- and was angry they wanted to live lives of their own, sooner or later.
One corps grad in Vancouver, British Columbia was struggling with financial burdens and trying to keep pace with attending yearly corps week/roa. She had this amazing, genuine heart to serve others.......giving thanks to her lord and savior, Jesus Christ......to be there for others.
So, when it came to my attention that she needed $4,000 for dental work........I addressed this matter at our next executive meeting. [Yes, in Canada......we had a three-member executive board to discuss business and financial decisions. Each year, The Way of Canada paid an audit firm to do a thorough, in-depth yearly audit of our books. Thus, we were tasked with submitting official *meeting minutes* from our executive board to the audit firm.]
Without hesitation, we authorized this $4,000 payment/gift to enable this wonderful corps grad to get the best dental care available. And, if she needed more......that was absolutely available. And, it brought great joy to our hearts to see her beautiful smile once again.
June Marie Casey...........one of the finest disciples of Christ I ever knew.
.............Sadly, she died in a car accident about 17 years later or so [2003 or 2004].
Sky, how wonderful for The Way of Canada, to pay for someone's teeth to be fixed. If only, TWI had done similar things for its followers in the USA. Never did I know of anyone being helped by TWI, not once.
Sky, how wonderful for The Way of Canada, to pay for someone's teeth to be fixed. If only, TWI had done similar things for its followers in the USA. Never did I know of anyone being helped by TWI, not once.
It just occurred to me that the organization's practices with regard to doing good things for people in need stands in violation/contrast to its proclaimed belief in "giving = receiving." If the organization truly believed that axiom, perhaps over the last several decades it wouldn't have been quite so tightfisted about helping the unfortunate.
It just occurred to me that the organization's practices with regard to doing good things for people in need stands in violation/contrast to its proclaimed belief in "giving = receiving." If the organization truly believed that axiom, perhaps over the last several decades it wouldn't have been quite so tightfisted about helping the unfortunate.
Oh, but Rocky, surely you understand that the general membership (aka peons) give (physically) in this world, and the same receive spiritually. Only "spiritually."
All that ABS goes to helping people in need. You know, like the trustees and higher-ups who have devoted their lives to service of said peons, those who've given up jobs that they could have held at Fortune 500 companies, and such like.
It just occurred to me that the organization's practices with regard to doing good things for people in need stands in violation/contrast to its proclaimed belief in "giving = receiving." If the organization truly believed that axiom, perhaps over the last several decades it wouldn't have been quite so tightfisted about helping the unfortunate.
Point taken.....
.....but need to clarify that axiom "giving = receiving."
On a number of occasions, that proclaimed belief "giving = receiving" was taught. It even was taught/proclaimed by martindale and townsend......possibly, others. I remember, this was clarified and a couple of weeks passed by..........and Rev. L0nnell Johns0n took this false teaching head-on at a Sunday service and taught Giving and Receiving.
The reason why this was so vivid to me.........is because some people in the corps started skewing "giving = receiving" in terms of planting (i.e.....when you plant a kernel of corn you get corn, or if you plant a grain of wheat, you get wheat). Thus to say.....when you give (plant), you then receive (reap). Equating that planting a kernel of corn......you reap back what you sow, another kernel. That is NOT true.
Giving = Receiving.....NOT.
Having grown up on a farm......I knew that was just crazy talk. When you plant a kernel of corn..............you, generally, get two ears of corn per stalk. In other words, you get 800 kernels per ear of corn.......or 1,600 kernels. Planting a grain of wheat yields even exponentially more in return.
Think about it in terms of Malachi 3:10............Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pouryououtablessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
So, bring in 1/10th of your crop to the storehouse........and the Lord of hosts will pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it!
Now THAT.....is receiving FAR MORE IN ABUNDANCE/BLESSING.....than what one was giving.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Imagine........if twi wouldn't have been so tightfisted (and doctrinally skewed) in helping others.........
......what could have been the exponential help to others?
......what could have been the exponential numbers of faithful followers?
......what could have been the exponential wealth to administer to those in need? [rather than hoarding a measly 67 Million for themselves...ppfffft]
I’ve often thought about TWI’s giving = receiving principle that they pushed...perhaps with the expectation they often suggested i think it may have been more along the lines of giving to get - so then it’s really not giving but trading - a barter system.
It really was "giving to get" - not giving out of a thankful heart because of the bounty of God's provision for each one of us - giving just for the pleasure of giving and helping others.
Right now, I would very much like to give - to get! Give away half the contents of my home, so that I can get some space!! Where has all this stuff come from? There really is no room enough to receive all that's in the house. Charity shop, here I come. (Wine collection excluded.)
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skyrider
THIS WAS WIERWILLE'S ALL NINE ALL THE TIME......
Wierwille was a narcissist.......
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Twinky
I'm glad I never suffered under Pontius Wierwille. I suffered under the reign of the Dancing Prez. Burdens? My lord, when I hear what some of the early Corps got up to, I wonder how on earth you had the liberty.
Practically every minute of in rez time in the 90s was buttoned down very tightly. LCM was twice the child of hell, as it were. As in this statement, by Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
"Woe to you, Phariseeical President, VPW, hypocrite, because you travel around on sea and land to make one President; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourself."
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skyrider
So many failures by veepee.............
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Zero Corps program........[check]
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Instilled "Lock-Box" teaching as a Principled Pillar.........[check]
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Built on a Foundation of Unaccountability to Anyone.........[check]
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Tried to Update Teaching/Filming of foundational class at PFAL '77........[check]
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No Accreditation at The Way College of Emporia...........[check]
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Lauding Camp Gunnison as Premier Vacation Spot and Restaurant for Way Believers...........[check]
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Sent out corps letters as stop-gap of hemorrhaging corps grads.............[check]
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The Sno-Way.......an all-terrain vehicle attempt-built by Grumelot and another Family Corps guy......[check]
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Putting Mantle on Martindale as 2nd prez...............hahahahahahaha.............[check]
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Word in Culture........Fine Arts House, "Cultural Center," High Country Caravan, etc........splat....[check]
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The Victors Quartet..................nothing like killing off youthful zeal..........LOL.......[check]
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Athlete of the Spirit terminology......---> AOS Production.........oops......[check]
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Corps Exploitation and Labor at corps wk/roa.........not sustainable........[check]
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Pharisaic Example of "Desiring to be Seen & Served".................[check]
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NO demonstrating God's Power to the people.......NONE............[check]
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Flaunting Smoking/Drinking at late night corps mtgs..............[check]
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Used Motor Coach for Sexual Predation..............[check]
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Wrecked Twig-Hopper in Ontario and silenced all to secrecy.......[check]
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Lies and Cover-up of Cause of Death.....CANCER...........[check]
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Mystique of "man of god"...........like dust in the wind........[check]
Edited by skyridertypos
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skyrider
One corps grad in Vancouver, British Columbia was struggling with financial burdens and trying to keep pace with attending yearly corps week/roa. She had this amazing, genuine heart to serve others.......giving thanks to her lord and savior, Jesus Christ......to be there for others.
So, when it came to my attention that she needed $4,000 for dental work........I addressed this matter at our next executive meeting. [Yes, in Canada......we had a three-member executive board to discuss business and financial decisions. Each year, The Way of Canada paid an audit firm to do a thorough, in-depth yearly audit of our books. Thus, we were tasked with submitting official *meeting minutes* from our executive board to the audit firm.]
Without hesitation, we authorized this $4,000 payment/gift to enable this wonderful corps grad to get the best dental care available. And, if she needed more......that was absolutely available. And, it brought great joy to our hearts to see her beautiful smile once again.
June Marie Casey...........one of the finest disciples of Christ I ever knew.
.............Sadly, she died in a car accident about 17 years later or so [2003 or 2004].
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chockfull
The Way of Canada is a financial loophole like all International Outreach. All monies there are managed locally - Canada, Democratic Republic of Congo, South America, etc. I suspect this is because of tax code scrutiny on VP where he didn't want to have to deal with international giving or something.
Because of this good-hearted people were able to help others in other countries than the US. This was not possible in the United States.
Money in the United States for expenses worked on a strict approval level. If I remember correctly, state coordinators could approve up to $100, Region coordinators to $300, and Trunk Office to $500. Anything more required Board of Dummies signatures. Any request of this type of nature would have been squashed by the state level, and definitely by the region level. They are reluctant to spend money even on meeting spaces, driving people to go with free options. Basically a leech on society. I remember the trunk office not even approving normal type expenses.
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skyrider
Yes, Chockfull......The Way of Canada was/is registered as a non-profit entity under Canadian governance. All monies (donations/gifts/tithes) stayed in Canada and were documented and all expenses coded under strict restraints in formal ledger and end-of-year accounting. Then, The Way of Canada submitted these records to a yearly audit by a reputable accounting firm. As I remember, the fee of $5,000 for annual audit was deemed a prudent investment to keep The Way of Canada in good standing with governing officials.
In retelling this experience and situation in Canada, I am reminded of the "giving and receiving" that I experienced during those three years in Canada. Quite honestly, it seemed like we used way magazines, teaching tapes and yearly themes from twi as a guideline rather than dogma. From Moncton, New Brunswick to Vancouver, British Columbia........there were pockets of believers who didn't care a whit about what was happening at twi's headquarters. The language barriers, the subcultures and demographics of Toronto and Montreal, most notably....... added a vast array of challenges and "liberties," for sure.
As you stated above, the Board of Dummies were heavy-handed in exploiting the people........and therefore, limb/region guys didn't have the opportunity that I had. Perhaps, if I'd "run it up the flagpole" all the way to Howard Allen, who oversaw I.O. ..........he might have shot it down. But.......I didn't ask him.
I believed that I was walking with God.......and allocating the $4,000 for dental work to a corps grad in need was what I did.
Again......I was trying to walk in his steps [Luke 4:18].
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DontWorryBeHappy
When I graduated from the corpse (4th), my assignment was VP of the Way of MI and State WOW Coordinator. I had 20 WOW families in 10 different cities, each pair coordinated by Interim 6th corpse. There were only 6 interim corpse college WOWS, who coordinated College WOW wayhomes at MSU, Uof MI, and Ferris State College, and University of Detroit. Of those 20 WOW families, 2 were in Detroit city, and there were 2 families in the Detroit suburbs of Livonia, Warren, Dearborn, and an interim family corpse couple with a group of 3 twigs in the City. I lived just north of the city in Berkeley, MI. I had an interim corpse WOW meeting for all the interim corpse WOWS once a month in my apt in Berkley. They were fabulous, and we all became very close friends. Word got out, and then all the rest of the corpses in the state wanted to come too. So, after a buncha hoohey from Ken Brown, turd corpse LC, it was opened to any corpse who wanted to attend.
At the second one of those monthly meetings, we decided we'd do a weekly SNS for the Detroit Area. We started on Anniversary Sunday, 1976, with about 80 people, including all the WOWS & corpse. At the December meeting, we had over 350, and never looked back!
When I first got involved with TWIt, in Long Island and Rye, NY in 1970, when we used to pass the horns at fellowships (not called "Twigs yet!), both Steve Heefner (LC) and Steve Perez each used to say before passing the horn, "If you are in serious need of $, take out whatever will help you get through tonight and tomorrow." We had petty cash for ministry expenses, and ALL the ABS was kept in the local branches and areas until all the bills were paid, our meager "salaries" fluctuated with the ABS, which many times meant that our total weekly salary was $10-20. However, whenever there was an emergent need among the fellowships, ABS was used to pay Dr./Hospital bills, buy food or clothing for homeless folks who came to fellowship, pay for refreshments and food at classes and Sunday night meetings every week, etc. Sometimes we even gave people the $45 "donation" so they could take the class and repay when they got back on their feet. Those decisions were made at the Branch and Area levels. At the end of the month, whatever was left over, we sent to the Limb in Rye. Those amounts rose dramatically from month to month, and the same was done by Heefner for the whole Limb every month. How much we sent was determined by how much came in, and since we emptied the bank accounts every month, that was a lot of moolah, and everybody was happy, except dictor. When he saw the amount of $ coming in from just NY, he wanted it all for himself. So, with the help of none other than Christopher Geer, dictor and coward Allen, fired Heefner and the limb staff he brought with him from CA, during the Advanced Class in Rye in March of 1972. Boob and Doody MoneyHands came in with Gary Frederick to take over the limb, close all branch and area bank accounts in the state other than the Limb, and change over to blue forms and the way tree structure. Perez quit, and all the rest of us fulltimers (2 of us, Ed Goebel and myself) quit and got jobs. The Way of Long Island was broken into just the Nassau and Suffolk branches, Brooklyn/Queens became a separate area, and the Bronx branch was run by a guy named Steffen Emerick. I ran the Bklyn/Queens area, and refused to take any salary. I ran it the way I was taught by Heefner and Perez, and it boomed. I NEVER told Moynihan what I was doing. I just gathered the blue forms and cash from the branches and deposited them all directly into the one Limb account. Since the area was booming, I never got any complaints.
So, getting back to MI, when we started the weekly Sunday Area meetings, I had all this abundant sharing to send to the limb, checks and cash. I kept a couple of hundred dollars cash in my apt. and used it as the needs arose among the corpse and their WOWS. For example, the interim family corpse couple had 2 young daughters living in the heart of Detroit the summer after the Cobo riots. Well, mommy got pregnant again, which meant they could not re-enter the corpse. So, to help them out, I paid their medical bills from the delivery and their rent for 3 months, from that ABS stash I kept. Sometimes, WOWS couldn't pay their rent or buy decent food, so i'd pay it from my stash. I even paid for a WOW apprentice corpse to have an abortion when her corpse leader got her pregnant, so she could go into the corpse as planned. To me, THIS was the PUREST and most Christ-like use of ABS for ANYTHING!! I still feel that way.
Well.....Bo Reahard was the Trunk guy and the Midwest region guy too. So, he came for a visit in March, and I had him teach at the Detroit SNS. When we got back to my apt, he watched me prepare The ABS to send to the limb. I took out my $200 cash, and zipped up the remaining cash, checks, and coins into a bank pouch with the blue form to take to the limb. Bo wanted to know what the cash was for, and I told him. He asked me if Ken Brown knew about this. I said "No, why? I didn't think i needed to tell him." Well he calls Ken Brown and then rips me a new one for "stealing the ABS"! I called his bullshit, bullshit, and he said he was gonna tell dictor when he got back to HQ. I said, "Good! Tell him to call me and tell me I'm stealing his ABS!"
Well, I get a phone call 2 days later from dictor himself! He's got Bo in his office "so he can hear this too". Then he says: "Son, you're right and Bo is full-of-shit like you told him! THAT IS the best use of our ABS and you just go right ahead and keep on doing the right thing, OK?? OK BO??". Then, in harmony comes 2 "yessirs"!! LOL! Then he puts Bo on the phone! Bo says, "You were right. I'm sorry for falsely accusing you. When I hang up, I'm calling Ken Brown to tell him the same thing." I said "thanks Bo, I love ya!"
Throughout my entire time in TWIt, at every level of the verkackte Way tree I served in, I did exactly the same thing! And NO ONE, not even Coward or Ding Dong ever said another word to me. There are people still living because of that, who would have been dead, maimed, or arrested. I never used any of those monies for any personal needs or purchases for anybody. I distributed to each as there was need. AND, IT WORKED!
i watched dictor and da Forehead take baskets and baskets of ABS from various large meetings and stuff it all in brown shopping bags and take it onto the coach never to be seen again. I watched them splurge on themselves and their corpse girls.....gifts, booze, drugs, bribes, and "contributions to their lockboxes"! I confronted da Forehead several times, and accomplished NOTHING. That one time on the phone with dictor and Bo was the ONLY time I ever talked about it with dictor.
So, what Skyrider was doing was absolutely "right-on" as far as dictor and Howard were concerned. Even though it could never have been done under da forehead's reign here in the USA, Skyrider being in Canada and having a pair.....did the right thing. If only there were more who had the guts to do the right thing, which, as usual, meant going against HQ and the board of terrorists, perhaps fewer people would have endured life-altering hurts and pains. We'll never know. Thanks for reading!.........peace.
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skyrider
Damn straight, DWBH......................you rock !!
THAT is what leadership looks like......and should have been taught and detailed in corps training. LOVE in all of its manifestations helping others.......caring for the weak and vulnerable, ministering to the wounded souls, fighting against those who ravage the flock, leading them to "still waters and green pastures," replenishing their souls with righteous nutrition, etc. etc. In essence, to follow in the steps of Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd.
In Canada, from March 1984 - April 1987.........my wife and I embraced our duties of ministering/oversight of the Canadian brethren with every fiber of our beings. We deemed it an honor and privilege of a lifetime to serve them. The only reason that our tenure was 3 years......was because our work visas had expired and the Canadian government officials would not extend them. The country coordinators before us were Americans, Danny and Rhonda Stephenson, [3 years]........and then, we had 3 years. The visa/immigration/custom officers terminated our visa status at the end of March 1987.........and then, Randy and Diane Ginn [Canadian birthright citizen] assumed the duties.
Here at GreaseSpot Café.........we document the multi-layered fabric of micro-management, legalism and abuse on countless threads. BUT..........THERE WAS A TIME AND PLACE when those things were not so. Canada, for a number of years, was young, vibrant, sharing, loving........without the tentacles of spiritual overlords and mandates. Each year, we had a "Western Canadian Advance" and "Eastern Canadian Advance" that were like a 3-day family gathering of hugs, fun, laughter, prayer/healing, outdoor games, short vibrant evening teachings, and capped the Saturday night with a two-hour songs/talent/skit night. Nearly everyone got involved......and lots of us stayed up till 2am hanging out together, because we just didn't want to go to bed. Love saturated these wonderful times. We had corps and believers in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Windsor, London, Toronto, Mississauga, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City and other small hamlets ......most notably around Ontario.
During our tenure, the outreach and ABS grew near 300%.........as we stayed valiant for the truth.
In confidence, I had many corps and believers tell me that our "Canadian Advances" were far superior to the rock of ages in ohio.
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outandabout
As for the three weeks off- If you had to quit your job to go to Corps Week and The Rock, how were you supposed to get another job when you went home that gave you three weeks off? And then you'd have to quit THAT job the next year if they didn't give you 3 weeks and be right back in the same situation. And that would just make it harder and harder every year because your job history sucked after never spending a decent amount of time at a job as a loyal employee. People at the top and at HQ had no clue and they were the ones telling us what to do!
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skyrider
ANYONE with common-sense management skills, proper discernment and empathy for others........COULD SEE that this "high-speed train" was going to derail.
The demands and restraints put upon the corps by wierwille was IN-YOUR-FACE EXPLOITATION.
There was NO WAY this was going to continue.......and each year, more and more corps drifted away. Understandably !!
Wierwille was a narcissistic bully.........with NO compassion or christian character. NONE.
The cult was DIVIDING families............the cult was ANTI-family.
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chockfull
It was one story with 20 something hippy children. However, as people like you say started getting married and popping out little ones who needed them to have a steady job, they started dropping off like flies.
Wierwille wanted his free love 60s exploitive Jesus movement to continue well beyond the boundaries of logic, marriage, family, employment, and community. Well beyond the ability of his own even aging body to respond to it.
That's the foundation of your Way ministry right there, new people. That's what is behind the "Timothy" statue in the auditorium lobby and the foundational class you are sitting through right now.
Even though there has been time and a lot of whitewash applied.
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chockfull
I totally remember a WOW year where this happened. I was in manufacturing. I was laid off on a mandatory company shutdown over 2 weeks in July. Then in August for Corpse Week / ROA I was back working on a no vacation mandatory policy. I had to quit to attend CF/ROA.
Not only this, I remember the distinct privilege of being reamed out because I only volunteered for a 4 hour shift at the ROA on a few days. During the only vacation I would have that year or any other year. How nice. The person reaming worked in the Way of the USA tent where he "worked 14 hour days". Funny every time I would stop by there were about 3 nice looking girls assigned to run to get him food. He was mostly lounging sitting down. And he got to BS with his friends and occasionally counsel someone to step up their haircuts to get their WOW money together. Also, he took his multi-week Way earned staff vacation every year. That was the stomping ground of one of the current Board of Directors.
Good times.
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chockfull
I wanted to thank you for your heart and work in doing what was right in your time and ongoing into today. I agree with your conclusion and can only with you tell the truth now.
Peace brothers.
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WordWolf
That was the thing. There were genuine Christians doing things, young and naive. vpw went and convinced them he was some great one and turned them into his recruiting arm. After that, he expected them to be his property for life. Otherwise, he'd have expected they'd all have to take care of their families as time passed (it's in the Bible, folks!) His absence of such thinking indicated he expected them to subordinate their entire lives to twi and whatever he wanted.
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skyrider
Yes.......in my opinion, there were genuine Christians, young and old, intermingled and serving in wierwille's minus-try. There were dozens of older staff at hq serving in positions of support services who'd come from surrounding denominational churches. And, remember.......in the early 70s, singing all those songs, "Yes, it is Jesus" and "My Jesus, I love thee" and "How Great Thou Art"......etc. etc.
By 1977, 1978...........the Blue Song Book was replaced. Teachings became more "us versus them" and "crowns at the bema."
~~~~~~~~~
Regarding wierwille "expecting others to be his property for life" or his "absence of such thinking".........may not have even surfaced in his mind.
From all indications short of having wierwille clinically diagnosed of Narcissistic Personality Disorder........his life displayed all the symptoms. For example, those with npd have these associated features:
Whether purposefully expecting the corps to subordinate their entire lives......OR......unknowingly disparage corps and others, wierwille was a narcissist to the core.
In biblical terms, wierwille was a false teacher, a deceiver.
In modern terms, wierwille was a narcissist.
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skyrider
Wierwille
proof.......er, spoofLink to comment
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WordWolf
I think we're saying the same thing using different reasons. His narcissism was the reason he expected to own them for life. To a narcissist, they're not people, they're THINGS. Once he acquired the THINGS (the Christians), he expected he owned them for life- and was angry they wanted to live lives of their own, sooner or later.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, how wonderful for The Way of Canada, to pay for someone's teeth to be fixed. If only, TWI had done similar things for its followers in the USA. Never did I know of anyone being helped by TWI, not once.
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Rocky
It just occurred to me that the organization's practices with regard to doing good things for people in need stands in violation/contrast to its proclaimed belief in "giving = receiving." If the organization truly believed that axiom, perhaps over the last several decades it wouldn't have been quite so tightfisted about helping the unfortunate.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky,
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Twinky
Oh, but Rocky, surely you understand that the general membership (aka peons) give (physically) in this world, and the same receive spiritually. Only "spiritually."
All that ABS goes to helping people in need. You know, like the trustees and higher-ups who have devoted their lives to service of said peons, those who've given up jobs that they could have held at Fortune 500 companies, and such like.
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skyrider
Point taken.....
.....but need to clarify that axiom "giving = receiving."
On a number of occasions, that proclaimed belief "giving = receiving" was taught. It even was taught/proclaimed by martindale and townsend......possibly, others. I remember, this was clarified and a couple of weeks passed by..........and Rev. L0nnell Johns0n took this false teaching head-on at a Sunday service and taught Giving and Receiving.
The reason why this was so vivid to me.........is because some people in the corps started skewing "giving = receiving" in terms of planting (i.e.....when you plant a kernel of corn you get corn, or if you plant a grain of wheat, you get wheat). Thus to say.....when you give (plant), you then receive (reap). Equating that planting a kernel of corn......you reap back what you sow, another kernel. That is NOT true.
Giving = Receiving.....NOT.
Having grown up on a farm......I knew that was just crazy talk. When you plant a kernel of corn..............you, generally, get two ears of corn per stalk. In other words, you get 800 kernels per ear of corn.......or 1,600 kernels. Planting a grain of wheat yields even exponentially more in return.
Think about it in terms of Malachi 3:10............Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
So, bring in 1/10th of your crop to the storehouse........and the Lord of hosts will pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it!
Now THAT.....is receiving FAR MORE IN ABUNDANCE/BLESSING.....than what one was giving.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Imagine........if twi wouldn't have been so tightfisted (and doctrinally skewed) in helping others.........
......what could have been the exponential help to others?
......what could have been the exponential numbers of faithful followers?
......what could have been the exponential wealth to administer to those in need? [rather than hoarding a measly 67 Million for themselves...ppfffft]
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T-Bone
I’ve often thought about TWI’s giving = receiving principle that they pushed...perhaps with the expectation they often suggested i think it may have been more along the lines of giving to get - so then it’s really not giving but trading - a barter system.
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Twinky
It really was "giving to get" - not giving out of a thankful heart because of the bounty of God's provision for each one of us - giving just for the pleasure of giving and helping others.
Right now, I would very much like to give - to get! Give away half the contents of my home, so that I can get some space!! Where has all this stuff come from? There really is no room enough to receive all that's in the house. Charity shop, here I come. (Wine collection excluded.)
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