Is PLAF theopneustos, god-breathed?

[Mike]

9 minutes ago, Rocky said:

.......

Rocky, I apologize.

Please scroll up one hour for more details.

I am sorry. I thought it through, finally.

[Rocky]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

Rocky, I apologize.

Please scroll up one hour for more details.

I am sorry. I thought it through, finally.

Got it. Thanks.

[Mike]

 

 

An Apology

 

 

About an hour ago I implemented my decision to apologize and stop posting. 

I started with a long letter  of apology to So_crates, and then followed with shorter apologies to others. I’m re-writing the letter to So_crates below for all to consider, so that this decision is not well buried.

Please allow me to apologize to others here for the way I have been. After a week of soul searching I have come to realize that the main reason I returned to post here was NOSTALGIA.  I just miss grads and grad talk.

Part of that nostalgia kick has been reading up on posters stories and other threads by the current frequent posters. In doing so I’ve come across lots of emotional reminders of the problems that happened at TWI. Most of those problems hit me much lighter than the others whose stories I was reading.

In general, I’ve come to realize that my nostalgia thrills are not worth it, seeing the commotion and stir that my posting has been. I really thought that after a  10 or 12 year hiatus, things may have calmed down. They did not;  some ways they are worse.

Some of the problems posters recounted that hit me hardest were in how families were disrupted.  It reminded me of hurt grads, close friends of mine, of long ago who got ground up in the ministry machinery. I had forgotten their pain.

 ***

I think I was wrong in posting, seeing my topic causes grief. Grief causing was not my intention. I now feel it’s my moral duty to stop posting my message.  I honestly thought the hostilities would calm down after a month of my recent posting. I was wrong. I honestly thought the hostilities would be GONE after my being gone for 10 years. I was wrong.  

***

 I see better now the lingering hurt of TWI that still bothers MOST people here. I should have seen how something that I consider good news is not so good an association for me to bring up over and over here. I owe apologies to all here, and I have sorrow for what I’ve done. This has been going on and off in my head for a week now, and it’s not been letting up, but getting worse. 

I want to learn from this. I will stick around for a little (like a few days), hoping for a means to make some kind of token amends. Possibly, if I offer to answer questions (best of my ability) that may help, but I also can’t see anyone losing any sleep if I just split immediately.

I will stick around long enough to try and clean up any issues, if possible. My usual style and agenda for using questions as mechanisms for getting my message out is in the trash can. Instead of dodging questions that may interrupt my message flow and/or be useful later, I’ll just try my best to answer them.  I have no plan, but to stop posting my message.

Maybe if I stick around a tiny bit people can get some closure on this episode.  

I’m sorry I didn’t read all those personal stories first, before I started posting.

 Peace.

 

[waysider]

Thank you, Mike.

[Twinky]

I think we might be seeing a bit of meekness and humility from Mike, and, dare I say it, some beginnings of empathy.  Very good. 

Peace, Mike.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Thank for your apologies Mike. Your self-awareness is encouraging. Apologies accepted, and...............peace.

[T-Bone]

i appreciate that, Mike !

 

love & peace

T-Bone

[JayDee]

Apology accepted Mike. 

[So_crates]

14 hours ago, Mike said:

An Apology

About an hour ago I implemented my decision to apologize and stop posting. 

I started with a long letter  of apology to So_crates, and then followed with shorter apologies to others. I’m re-writing the letter to So_crates below for all to consider, so that this decision is not well buried.

Don't worry about it, Mike.

It's not that big a deal.

14 hours ago, Mike said:

I see better now the lingering hurt of TWI that still bothers MOST people here.

Of course there's a lot of hurt here. There alway will be

"Comfort is in heaven

"We are on earth

"Here lives crosses, cares, and grief."

Edited January 28, 2018 by So_crates

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

21 hours ago, Rocky said:

You are such a troll. Just yesterday you claimed to recognize the need to get a life.

The highlighted sentence in the quote above further underscores your acknowledged inability to communicate.

Unless you can motivate people to be interested in your words, you are nothing but a troll.

You did a double post. Does that mean it must be true?

[Rocky]

35 minutes ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

You did a double post. Does that mean it must be true?

What mattered was that Mike got the point. He apologized. If that's the end of it, I'll be satisfied.

[waysider]

4 minutes ago, Rocky said:

What mattered was that Mike got the point. He apologized. If that's the end of it, I'll be satisfied.

Works for  me.

 

[Mike]

Thanks much, folks. 

I know I missed a few specific people, but when I have some time

I'll search the thread for any glaring omissions on my part.

[Mike]

I'm doing a lot of reading here lately, and a question popped up.

Is there a way to "LIKE" a post or a thread here as in FaceBook?

It looks like there is, but how does it work?

[Raf]

There's a little heart at the bottom right of each post. I think you can click the heart and the "up" arrow that appears. But I don't think it shows that YOU liked it. Just that it was liked. Could have been anyone (except the person who posted it).

 

[Mike]

Thanks. That's cool.

[Twinky]

Well done, Mike, at long last you got a "reputation" or "like" vote.  Well, a couple  of votes, actually.

[WordWolf]

It figures. The fun has to happen while I'm out of town.  

Mike, nobody's kicking you off the board.  You're even invited to play in the games in the "Movies, Music..." forum.  (Just try to follow the rules, such as they are.) 

I think most people here won't begrudge nostalgia, so long as it's phrased a bit diplomatically- and, more to the point, subjectively.  (I have some fond memories of time in twi, but I acknowledge that my experiences certainly weren't universal.) 

I'll honor the bilateral ceasefire and not get into things all over again. I will, however, point out that you're attributing hostility SOLELY to people who are reacting to nostalgia.  Most of the reactions are people disagreeing with you, not people just reacting.

 

 

[Mike]

3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

I'll honor the bilateral ceasefire and not get into things all over again. I will, however, point out that you're attributing hostility SOLELY to people who are reacting to nostalgia.  Most of the reactions are people disagreeing with you, not people just reacting.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Word Wolf. 

I can deal with the debate and even hostility. I think I reacted and decided most on the grief I saw on other threads, more than (perceived) hostility. It was the many families broken up that broke me up. I didn't realize how lucky I was in how little the craziness affected me.

I remember the other forums from long ago and may visit them. Right now I'm more into reading and finding out what's happened in the past ten years, plus lots of the old nostalgia from the 70s.

Maybe I'll see you around the block or two.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

Thanks for the welcome, Word Wolf. 

I can deal with the debate and even hostility. I think I reacted and decided most on the grief I saw on other threads, more than (perceived) hostility. It was the many families broken up that broke me up. I didn't realize how lucky I was in how little the craziness affected me.

I remember the other forums from long ago and may visit them. Right now I'm more into reading and finding out what's happened in the past ten years, plus lots of the old nostalgia from the 70s.

Maybe I'll see you around the block or two.

Mike, I too feel very fortunate that TWI effected me very little.  But, I know that many people in TWI were badly hurt by their experiences in the cult.  I feel for them, and their families.

[Mike]

7 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Mike, I too feel very fortunate that TWI effected me very little.  But, I know that many people in TWI were badly hurt by their experiences in the cult.  I feel for them, and their families.

Hi Grace Valerie Claire,

 

It’s a little difficult for me to respond without cranking back up my usual agenda as promised, but I’ll try.

 

I think of the two major responses to TWI (happy and unhappy) the happy variety tends to be quiet and dispersed. From my own poking around I think the numbers are enormous. Most are only moderately happy, and almost none are as happy as me and a few others.

I have two VERY close High School friends who took PFAL, one with me in 1972 and one a few years later.  Both liked the class, spoke in tongues, and felt set free of RC prisons. But both were unimpressed with the extreme youthfulness of the leadership (it was sometimes ridiculous) and their learning leadership skills (sometimes very slowly).

Both of my relatively happy friends drifted off from twig fellowships, but not from me. Over the years I have observed that their “happiness” has remained constant. They still appreciate what they learned, even though it is fading radically after 45 years. I can often rekindle some by a phone call.

I’ve also noticed that some very isolated twigs and branches with low numbers of people and large number of miles, tended to do better year after year. Not a whole lot of spiritual action is going on there (except some degrees of happiness), so there are less soap operas.  These were the kinds of twigs that stayed in TWI after the first explosions in 1986.

Then there’s the other side, the unhappy side. I saw very little damage ever done to new people. Recent grads were usually well protected. It’s when grads started moving up the power structure of TWI that you start seeing all sorts of soap operas develop. Look into training programs and all hell breaks loose.

My take on it is that wherever there was more of the positive spiritual action you also had negative spiritual actions taking place.  Working at HQ was stifling and crazy for its subtly of soap operas, at least the kinds I saw. It was a subtle struggle there, while on the field it was wonderful working with new people.

 

***

 

I have developed this theory on intense action attracting BOTH spiritual forces and in great entanglement a little further, but need to stop soon.

Here is a hint:

I think the whenever God opens a large spiritual door to permit a large intervention in physical matters, that same door permits the adversary to operate at a higher degree. Knowing this, God’s wisdom keeps most doors pretty shut tight for our protection.

An example of a major door being shut would be the flaming sword blocking the entrance to Paradise in Genesis. It was for protection.

Another example is Paul on the road to Damascus. The open door allowed someone to blind Paul. This blindness was against God’s will, and was fixed soon.

Another example is Naaman’s healing.  A wonderful breakthrough, and a flow of healing power through the open door. And what happened to Geheza, the assistant of the prophet?  That same open door took him down real bad. Some were happy about that open door; some very unhappy.

This theory is only in the development stages. I call it “Double Doors.”  I’m brainstorming it a little here.

 

 

 

 

 

[skyrider]

13 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Both of my relatively happy friends drifted off from twig fellowships, but not from me. Over the years I have observed that their “happiness” has remained constant. They still appreciate what they learned, even though it is fading radically after 45 years. I can often rekindle some by a phone call.

.....

Check out thread, "Short stay, good memories"..................in fact, I'll bump it for you.

[Mike]

42 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Check out thread, "Short stay, good memories"..................in fact, I'll bump it for you.

Thanks.

 Lots of data, lots of old 70s nostalgia, even a little 12 year old GreaseSpot nostalgia for me.

[Mike]

7 hours ago, skyrider said:

Check out thread, "Short stay, good memories"..................in fact, I'll bump it for you.

Holy SMOKES!  That thread is like bizarrely similar to my own observations.

I'm only half way through reading, so I don't know if you have some plot twist to surprise me, but so far it reads exactly like what I've been saying about the multitudes of grads out there being blessed.

And it lines up with my observations of how it was NOT a blessing as one moved up the structure.  The "when you got in," and the "where you got in," and "when out" ..... all that stuff I totally agree.

I was only half conscious of how I was dodging the darts. A lot was luck. A lot I learned in hindsight. 

When on HQ staff I felt totally insulted by some Corps (especially interim) who were so into the class distinctions. I was relegated to the non-Corps caste. It noticeably hampered me socially. However, I found GREAT comradely at HQ in non-Corps staff, especially the old timers.

Now I look back and see that, with all the bureaucratic stickiness I had endure at HQ, the non-Corps staff made it a totally worthwhile education for me. It wasn't perfect, but it was a good couple of years. I had to get out, though. There was no question about that; just where to?

With my WOW year I waited for 11 years before going out, and it was well planned.  I was pretty expert at dodging over-commitments that the system encouraged, so for all it's hair pulling for other various normal reasons, my WOW year was a total success.

Not so many of those who had good memories, and were far removed from Corps, broadcast their experiences effectively to the Corps, especially nowadays.

I'll keep reading to see how the thread ends.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mike

[Grace Valerie Claire]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

Hi Grace Valerie Claire,

 

 

 

It’s a little difficult for me to respond without cranking back up my usual agenda as promised, but I’ll try.

 

 

 

I think of the two major responses to TWI (happy and unhappy) the happy variety tends to be quiet and dispersed. From my own poking around I think the numbers are enormous. Most are only moderately happy, and almost none are as happy as me and a few others.

I have two VERY close High School friends who took PFAL, one with me in 1972 and one a few years later.  Both liked the class, spoke in tongues, and felt set free of RC prisons. But both were unimpressed with the extreme youthfulness of the leadership (it was sometimes ridiculous) and their learning leadership skills (sometimes very slowly).

Both of my relatively happy friends drifted off from twig fellowships, but not from me. Over the years I have observed that their “happiness” has remained constant. They still appreciate what they learned, even though it is fading radically after 45 years. I can often rekindle some by a phone call.

I’ve also noticed that some very isolated twigs and branches with low numbers of people and large number of miles, tended to do better year after year. Not a whole lot of spiritual action is going on there (except some degrees of happiness), so there are less soap operas.  These were the kinds of twigs that stayed in TWI after the first explosions in 1986.

Then there’s the other side, the unhappy side. I saw very little damage ever done to new people. Recent grads were usually well protected. It’s when grads started moving up the power structure of TWI that you start seeing all sorts of soap operas develop. Look into training programs and all hell breaks loose.

My take on it is that wherever there was more of the positive spiritual action you also had negative spiritual actions taking place.  Working at HQ was stifling and crazy for its subtly of soap operas, at least the kinds I saw. It was a subtle struggle there, while on the field it was wonderful working with new people.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

I have developed this theory on intense action attracting BOTH spiritual forces and in great entanglement a little further, but need to stop soon.

Here is a hint:

I think the whenever God opens a large spiritual door to permit a large intervention in physical matters, that same door permits the adversary to operate at a higher degree. Knowing this, God’s wisdom keeps most doors pretty shut tight for our protection.

An example of a major door being shut would be the flaming sword blocking the entrance to Paradise in Genesis. It was for protection.

Another example is Paul on the road to Damascus. The open door allowed someone to blind Paul. This blindness was against God’s will, and was fixed soon.

Another example is Naaman’s healing.  A wonderful breakthrough, and a flow of healing power through the open door. And what happened to Geheza, the assistant of the prophet?  That same open door took him down real bad. Some were happy about that open door; some very unhappy.

This theory is only in the development stages. I call it “Double Doors.”  I’m brainstorming it a little here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike, I think Abraham Lincoln was right: we can be as happy as we choose to be.