Again, arguing with such disjointed, delusional, self-defined illogic and garbage-in/garbage-out incoherence, is like "administering medicine to the dead". As long as there is a response, Mike will continue to drag out every last ounce of his insane self-delusion, make up new words and phrases with meanings known only to Mike and a dead drunk serial rapist and Nazi rotting in some waterlogged shrine in OH. That is why I try not to post on any thread Mike craps on. However, sometimes his insane diatribe and abject .... become unbearable to the point of comment. By now, we should ALL know better than to try and engage Mike in rational, factual, non-delusional dialogue regarding ANYTHING of seriousness or social value. At least we give this whacko an audience. Hopefully, that will help avoid a true psychotic break so folks in San Diego won't have to deal with yet another lunatic scaring their city.
Okay! Nuff said by me. Mike, I'm thankful you are not a violent or maleficent man. But, your insanity becomes more annoying with every self-absorbed, self-deluded paragraph you post here. Carry on as you must. Hopefully, the rest of us will tire of your foolishness and let you babble in the corner somewhere behind the counter. Blabber on MacDuff!.......peace.
I don't believe that those 22 occult statements (occult means hidden) constitute anything even approaching "evidence" that they were God-breathed.
I agree. They are not evidence that PFAL is God-breathed.
They are only evidence of two simple facts:
(1) that VPW did document his belief that written PFAL is God-breathed. This amounts to recognizing that my thesis is not something I came up with, but was something VPW was stating for decades before he died.
I did not originate my thesis. I got it on a verbal tip and from the 22 passages that I am posting.
(2) that in many clever mechanisms these 22 statements were temporarily hidden from our sight back then. None of us saw this God-breathed PFAL thesis coming, but it was in the books and tapes for decades under our noses.
I agree. They are not evidence that PFAL is God-breathed.
They are only evidence of two simple facts:
(1) that VPW did document his belief that written PFAL is God-breathed. This amounts to recognizing that my thesis is not something I came up with, but was something VPW was stating for decades before he died.
I did not originate my thesis. I got it on a verbal tip and from the 22 passages that I am posting.
(2) that in many clever mechanisms these 22 statements were temporarily hidden from our sight back then. None of us saw this God-breathed PFAL thesis coming, but it was in the books and tapes for decades under our noses.
I emphatically disagree with your characterization. Yes, the 22 passages were hidden but only because you've misunderstood what Dictor was saying.
I liken your cockamamie interpretation of Dictor's dictum(s) to what an old friend told me in October 2016. He predicted the outcome of a certain election and declared that said outcome would usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth. I told him then that I thought that notion was overwhelmingly absurd.
Your interpretation of the passages you've posted thus far is overwhelmingly absurd. Further, I can't see how any of the rest of them could possibly be anything but absurd.
Personally, I don't care where you obtained your "verbal tip."
Your interpretation of the passages you've posted thus far is overwhelmingly absurd. Further, I can't see how any of the rest of them could possibly be anything but absurd.
When I look at my thesis from my best guess approximation of what it must look like from your position... I can't blame you at all.
I can agree it is absurd from your perspective.
***
From my position, even if I'm wrong in my thesis, I still have a story that is awesome, bigger than me, inspiring me to grow in all capacities, helping me build great love for God and others.... In other words, all the things that cooked when simple twigs and simple branches ran simple classes and had simple bookstores are now cooking for me, except the large influx of people. I refer back to my posting J.S.'s comments on how I'd do well in life, even if I focused ONLY on written PFAL.
Then, if I'm not wrong in my thesis, then much better than a placebo-effect pacifier, the power of God is there again o augment all my efforts, as I grow again.
***
Either way, I decided at age 50 that I would end my searching for the ultimate truths and I would focus the rest of my life on DOING the truths I had found so far, knowing that I truly did search with all my might non-stop for many years.
At age 50 I decided it was time to stop any more searching and knuckle down and live it with all my might, whatever God had delivered to me by that date. That was shortly after I had come back to PFAL, because I noticed some (and later a lot) of things I had missed in it. I felt safe with written PFAL, having a relative 10 year vacation from it, and a total 10 year vacation from TWI. All my previous associations of it were positive. I ran into negatives, but they were all administrative and mostly Corps related.
***
So, it's not absurd at all to me. To me it's a positive and stable belief system, like the one we had cooking on the field here and there in the early 70s before TWI took them over with supervision, like with Way Corps and stuff.
***
The only difference between my belief system now and then is this: what I research.
Before I'd mostly research in the KJV for what I needed in life and I'd check up on whether VPW's teachings were right.
Now I mostly research PFAL for what I need in life. Period. I have no more need to check up on whether VPW's teachings are right.
Can you see how my thesis is not at all absurd FROM MY POSITION?
I have documented HOW he hid them for each of the 7 posted so far.
**You too can see the hidden passages in PLAF. Get the Saint Vic decoder ring, only $19.99.
Quote
***
In a nutshell: when I tell any grad (not just here) that VPW said PFAL was God-breathed they say I'm crazy, and that I pulled that idea out of my hat or some orifice.
**I knew somone who thought there were secret messages in his morning Alphabets. One day, he claimed his cereal was haunted because it was saying,"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO." Long story short: He was eating Cheerios.
Quote
When I tell people of the 22 "thus saith the Lord" statements of VPW they say they don't believe me. That's because VPW actually HID them in there. They are hidden in plain sight.
**All were hidden like a bad report card. Say, you think they were hidden because God give Saint Vic all "F"s?
Quote
If no body knows what I am talking about when I say VPW stated 22 times that PFAL is God-breathed then that means the 22 statements were hidden from them.
They were hidden from me until someone showed me a few in 1998. Which is odd, because I knew about 2 of the 3 sledgehammers, yet didn't connect the dots.
**Sledgehammers? More like rubber cartoon mallets.
I even toyed with AUDIO pfal being God-breathed, but it NEVER occurred to me to think written PFAL.
**I'll save you a lot of work. Play PLAF backwards and it says, "If your hearing this, your playing the tape wrong."
But seriously, folks....
Mike wrote:
Can you see how my thesis is not at all absurd FROM MY POSITION?
No, but I can see that the quality of the output really is determined by the quality of the input.
Either way, I decided at age 50 that I would end my searching for the ultimate truths and I would focus the rest of my life on DOING the truths I had found so far, knowing that I truly did search with all my might non-stop for many years.
At age 50 I decided it was time to stop any more searching and knuckle down and live it with all my might, whatever God had delivered to me by that date. That was shortly after I had come back to PFAL, because I noticed some (and later a lot) of things I had missed in it. I felt safe with written PFAL, having a relative 10 year vacation from it, and a total 10 year vacation from TWI. All my previous associations of it were positive. I ran into negatives, but they were all administrative and mostly Corps related.
***
So, it's not absurd at all to me. To me it's a positive and stable belief system, like the one we had cooking on the field here and there in the early 70s before TWI took them over with supervision, like with Way Corps and stuff.
***
The only difference between my belief system now and then is this: what I research.
Before I'd mostly research in the KJV for what I needed in life and I'd check up on whether VPW's teachings were right.
Now I mostly research PFAL for what I need in life. Period. I have no more need to check up on whether VPW's teachings are right.
Can you see how my thesis is not at all absurd FROM MY POSITION?
Mike, I do feel sorry for you. I am very glad that PFAL delivered you from the sin-bondage of the RC church and showed you much greater truths about who God is, and his desires for his people. I'm very glad. Not just for you, but for all those other people who learned a lot of stuff that their churches, RC or otherwise, hadn't taught them. Myself included! If you paid attention to the posts all over GSC, you would see many people saying, Glad I got in, glad I got out. Presumably they are "glad" for similar reasons.
However, what any goodBible teacher should do is always point you in the direction of Jesus Christ, his accomplishments, and through him to God, the creator of our entire universe. It's hard enough to fathom Jesus; it's impossible to get a full comprehension of God - and not even a smidgeon of comprehension outside of Jesus, and what is written about him in the OT and in the gospels and in the epistles. Glory must go to God, and to Jesus.
The bad Bible teacher constantly draws attention to him/herself, and replaces Jesus as the focal point through which we must pass. The RC church usurped this function by installing a "Pope" [Father] and imposing mini-popes (ministers, also called Father). We don't need these people: but they may serve as guides, teachers, those who help us on our way.
Your "thesis" is absurd because you haven't learned to see Jesus, to see God (in your heart) because a man has interposed himself in the Sonlight. That man casts a very long shadow in your life.
There are better Bible versions than what you call KJV, actually AV; my preference is for Holman Christian Standard Bible (very readable); others prefer NIV (I don't like it); others RSV. There is a choice available! But the central themes are the same (despite your argument to the contrary).
You will not find deliverance, salvation, peace of heart, or "what you need in life" in the writings of a man, and especially not in the writings of a man whose lifestyle was so perverse. If he couldn't convince himself of how to live life - why on earth should he be able to convince anyone else? To the extent that you do find "what you need in life" in PFAL written material, have you thought why? It's because the scriptures that are quoted are satisfying that need.
I am sorry for you, because you are trying so hard and apparently expending so much effort to find the right path. But you are looking in completely the wrong place. Can't you see the Lord himself holding out his arms ready to welcome you? Waving and saying, "Here! I'm over here, come this way!"
I am sorry for you, because you are trying so hard and apparently expending so much effort to find the right path. But you are looking in completely the wrong place. Can't you see the Lord himself holding out his arms ready to welcome you? Waving and saying, "Here! I'm over here, come this way!"
It reminds me of the story of the guy on his hands and knees on his front lawn. A passerby approaches him and asks if he's okay.
"I'm fine," he says, "I'm just looking for the keys to my car."
After them both searching for an hour, the passerby asks, "Are you sure they're here?"
"I lost them in the house," the guy confesses.
"Lost them in the house?!!" the passerby asks. "Then why are you looking for them here?"
It reminds me of the story of the guy on his hands and knees on his front lawn. A passerby approaches him and asks if he's okay.
"I'm fine," he says, "I'm just looking for the keys to my car."
After them both searching for an hour, the passerby asks, "Are you sure they're here?"
"I lost them in the house," the guy confesses.
"Lost them in the house?!!" the passerby asks. "Then why are you looking for them here?"
"The light's better out here."
Socrates,
This was Einstein's favorite joke. It's very much related (though not obviously) to the famous question: If a tree falls in a forest containing no people, does it make a sound?
Both are famous because a hundred years ago the nucleus of atoms was looking like it was defying the logic that gets twisted in the joke and the question. In other words, the absurdity that they illustrate was found to ACTUALLY HAPPEN in super small places like an atom's nucleus.
I've been pondering the two of them since my Freshman Physics year in 1968. But I do not think I'm bringing that absurdity up to the large scales of human life.
So, I respectfully disagree with this association of yours.
This was Einstein's favorite joke. It's very much related (though not obviously) to the famous question: If a tree falls in a forest containing no people, does it make a sound?
Both are famous because a hundred years ago the nucleus of atoms was looking like it was defying the logic that gets twisted in the joke and the question. In other words, the absurdity that they illustrate was found to ACTUALLY HAPPEN in super small places like an atom's nucleus.
I've been pondering the two of them since my Freshman Physics year in 1968. But I do not think I'm bringing that absurdity up to the large scales of human life.
So, I respectfully disagree with this association of yours.
For someone who decries that people need to get back to purity and simplicity, you sure know how to complicate things.
You'll notice I posted part of Twinky's post. Why?
What was that quote's theme?
Searching for things in the wrong place.
So what do you think the point of my post was?
Searching for things in the wrong place.
If your complicating something as simple as those two post, I have to wonder how much your getting away from that simplicity and purity you claim you've found in PLAF.
That Dictor claimed that what he was speaking was God-breathed is irrelevant. We can see what you're talking about.
Ok. Good. Thank you. I have successfully proved one tiny point here. Tiny points will add up.
My point here starts with the fact that EVERYONE tells me (on first hearing it) that he NEVER claimed that, and that my thesis causes him to turn in his grave. I've heard that a dozen times.
It profoundly illustrates the fact that ALL of us had a limited absorption and understanding of the material he taught us. That's why he started gradually telling us to MASTER the collaterals in 1979, and stepped it up to be his total message at the very end.
We ALL missed it, that VPW claimed to have God-breathed teaching IN WRITING!
How many other things did we miss?
I don't believe that those 22 occult statements (occult means hidden) constitute anything even approaching "evidence" that they were God-breathed.
.I AGREE! I have agreed to this. They prove some 2 other things else; tiny things.. They prove HE THOUGHT AND SAID he had it, and they prove we did not hear or understand him here.
If you're going to make a convincing case that anything he spoke or wrote (or had anyone else write) was God-breathed, you're going to have to do it without reliance on his narcissistic pronouncements.
.I firmly believe God is the only one Who can make a convincing case for that. When we come back to PFAL and honestly work it for the truths we need, not for apparent errors, then GOD will prove it to us.
Wouldn't you agree this would be the only kind proof possible?
In the first century, when God-breathed texts were a lot more abundant than they were in 1942, how would anyone ever get a proof that any one text was that pure? Same method: meekness and God does the proving.
If you think there is any way we can have proved to us that the ancient scriptures were God-breathed back then, I'd like to see that proof. What do YOU use for proof that something is your guide in life? What is bigger than you? I get to ask questions too.
For someone who decries that people need to get back to purity and simplicity, you sure know how to complicate things.
You'll notice I posted part of Twinky's post. Why?
What was that quote's theme?
Searching for things in the wrong place.
Oh Wow! This is so cosmic. I was searching in the wrong place for Twinky's post.
I got very confused by the flurry of posting this morning, and didn't notice a page change. I now see a bunch other posts I totally missed.
I did see Twinky's post earlier and actually liked it. I could see she got a few fine points, while disagreeing of course, but at least we communicated a little more. I will find it later, and read the other posts.
But today is a busy, busy day at work, and tonight is the Deadest night of the week in San Diego.
There's a wonderful Grateful Dead cover band that has played here every Monday night till 2am for the past 26 years! The Deadheads here are nice gentle people, the lost tribe of the hippies, and their children, and their grandchildren. The whole group reminds me MUCH of the hippie Way Ministry of 1972. It's like a secret dance club; secret because it's on Mondays. I'll be missing for a while.
This was Einstein's favorite joke. It's very much related (though not obviously) to the famous question: If a tree falls in a forest containing no people, does it make a sound?
Both are famous because a hundred years ago the nucleus of atoms was looking like it was defying the logic that gets twisted in the joke and the question. In other words, the absurdity that they illustrate was found to ACTUALLY HAPPEN in super small places like an atom's nucleus.
I've been pondering the two of them since my Freshman Physics year in 1968. But I do not think I'm bringing that absurdity up to the large scales of human life.
So, I respectfully disagree with this association of yours.
This situation reminds me of another story:
The Pope and an atheist were arguing.
The Pope finally got irritated and told the atheist: "Your just like a blindfolded man in a black room at night searching for a black cat that isn't there."
The atheist responded: "We're more alike than you think. You too are like a blindfolded man in a black room at night searching for a black cat that isn't there. The difference between us is you found it."
From my position, even if I'm wrong in my thesis, I still have a story that is awesome, bigger than me, inspiring me to grow in all capacities, helping me build great love for God and others.... In other words, all the things that cooked when simple twigs and simple branches ran simple classes and had simple bookstores are now cooking for me, except the large influx of people. I refer back to my posting J.S.'s comments on how I'd do well in life, even if I focused ONLY on written PFAL.
Then, if I'm not wrong in my thesis, then much better than a placebo-effect pacifier, the power of God is there again o augment all my efforts, as I grow again.
***
hmmm....
Frankly, I haven't followed much of this thread, as too much of it seems to ramble off into never, never land. But that paragraph was quite a slap in the face, given how many times "me, my[self], and I" appears in it. Because if and when you actually awaken to it... it seems that was, is, and always will be a real issue with "PFAL." It primarily appeals to, and so generously fertilizes the inherently selfish nature (which we all were born into, thanks to the first man, Adam.) John 10:10 was written to (and for) the nation of Israel. It was not given to (nor written for) Gentiles. Does PFAL contain keys that can help oneself live a more abundant life? Sure, I think so. Does that alone make or mean that it is the best for knowing or learning about God or the Lord Jesus Christ (much less mean that it is, "God breathed")?
Why so much concern for and the many thoughts about "me" (i.e., you or me) growing? You don't see or recognize the "growth" of Ephesians 4 being that of Christ?
Ok. Good. Thank you. I have successfully proved one tiny point here. Tiny points will add up.
My point here starts with the fact that EVERYONE tells me (on first hearing it) that he NEVER claimed that, and that my thesis causes him to turn in his grave. I've heard that a dozen times.
Apparently, I still wasn't clear... or you just can't or won't see my point. NO, you didn't prove even one tiny point. I could see that YOU were claiming what you said you were claiming. That doesn't mean I believe your claim, or acknowledge its veracity. Even IF Dictor was trying to claim, in an occult fashion, that he WAS proclaiming something that was direct insight from the Creator of heaven and earth I believe it was nothing more than a narcissistic proclamation. My view fits entirely within what Twinky explained about who gets the glory.
Sorry, I'm done taking your (quasi-intellectual bull$hit for) bait.
Why so much concern for and the many thoughts about "me" (i.e., you or me) growing? You don't see or recognize the "growth" of Ephesians 4 being that of Christ?
By your own admission, you have not seen the many times I'm being asked to talk about about LITTLE OLD "me."
When I say "I'm growing" and the context is spiritual, then the "I" you see in that quote, to the best of MY ability as the Christ in him, Mike. Now that you have that translation you can resume your mode of "thinketh no evil" and we can resume our talk about "Christ formed in the SOUL."
By your own admission, you have not seen the many times I'm being asked to talk about about LITTLE OLD "me."
When I say "I'm growing" and the context is spiritual, then the "I" you see in that quote, to the best of MY ability as the Christ in him, Mike. Now that you have that translation you can resume your mode of "thinketh no evil" and we can resume our talk about "Christ formed in the SOUL."
Shall we put it to a vote? Go back over the 20 pages of this thread and tally the times God or Jesus Christ are mentioned and compare that to the times you say "I".
You'll see the "I"s easily have it.
So, this tread is about little old you, not God nor Jesus Christ.
Here are a few examples off the top of my head:
I disagree. Not the bible disagrees
I don't accept those as errors. Not the bible says....
Read the paper I wrote on....Not this is what the bible or God wrote
I'm trying to make my writing Mike-lite. Not quoting from the bible
As you can see, not all of the above examples can be taken in a spiritual context.
By your own admission, you have not seen the many times I'm being asked to talk about about LITTLE OLD "me."
When I say "I'm growing" and the context is spiritual, then the "I" you see in that quote, to the best of MY ability as the Christ in him, Mike. Now that you have that translation you can resume your mode of "thinketh no evil" and we can resume our talk about "Christ formed in the SOUL."
Perhaps if you weren't as focused on yourself as you evidently are, you might not have so easily missed or overlooked the meat (and heart) of my post (identifying "a real issue with PFAL.")
Furthermore, your rather sarcastic (and plainly evident) insinuation that my thoughts were evil in what I wrote previously is... well, let's just call it "unappreciated."
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DontWorryBeHappy
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."........Thomas Paine.
penworks
Here's an idea: we each drop out of this topic and go read a book.
DontWorryBeHappy
Can anyone tell me dictor paul's scriptural position on the word "Covfefe"? What is the true meaning of that word?? Mike's textual criticism, and use of the basic dictor "keys to research", is as made
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Rocky
Sigh... yeah, you're right.
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Mike
I agree. They are not evidence that PFAL is God-breathed.
They are only evidence of two simple facts:
(1) that VPW did document his belief that written PFAL is God-breathed. This amounts to recognizing that my thesis is not something I came up with, but was something VPW was stating for decades before he died.
I did not originate my thesis. I got it on a verbal tip and from the 22 passages that I am posting.
(2) that in many clever mechanisms these 22 statements were temporarily hidden from our sight back then. None of us saw this God-breathed PFAL thesis coming, but it was in the books and tapes for decades under our noses.
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Rocky
I emphatically disagree with your characterization. Yes, the 22 passages were hidden but only because you've misunderstood what Dictor was saying.
I liken your cockamamie interpretation of Dictor's dictum(s) to what an old friend told me in October 2016. He predicted the outcome of a certain election and declared that said outcome would usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth. I told him then that I thought that notion was overwhelmingly absurd.
Your interpretation of the passages you've posted thus far is overwhelmingly absurd. Further, I can't see how any of the rest of them could possibly be anything but absurd.
Personally, I don't care where you obtained your "verbal tip."
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Mike
When I look at my thesis from my best guess approximation of what it must look like from your position... I can't blame you at all.
I can agree it is absurd from your perspective.
***
From my position, even if I'm wrong in my thesis, I still have a story that is awesome, bigger than me, inspiring me to grow in all capacities, helping me build great love for God and others.... In other words, all the things that cooked when simple twigs and simple branches ran simple classes and had simple bookstores are now cooking for me, except the large influx of people. I refer back to my posting J.S.'s comments on how I'd do well in life, even if I focused ONLY on written PFAL.
Then, if I'm not wrong in my thesis, then much better than a placebo-effect pacifier, the power of God is there again o augment all my efforts, as I grow again.
***
Either way, I decided at age 50 that I would end my searching for the ultimate truths and I would focus the rest of my life on DOING the truths I had found so far, knowing that I truly did search with all my might non-stop for many years.
At age 50 I decided it was time to stop any more searching and knuckle down and live it with all my might, whatever God had delivered to me by that date. That was shortly after I had come back to PFAL, because I noticed some (and later a lot) of things I had missed in it. I felt safe with written PFAL, having a relative 10 year vacation from it, and a total 10 year vacation from TWI. All my previous associations of it were positive. I ran into negatives, but they were all administrative and mostly Corps related.
***
So, it's not absurd at all to me. To me it's a positive and stable belief system, like the one we had cooking on the field here and there in the early 70s before TWI took them over with supervision, like with Way Corps and stuff.
***
The only difference between my belief system now and then is this: what I research.
Before I'd mostly research in the KJV for what I needed in life and I'd check up on whether VPW's teachings were right.
Now I mostly research PFAL for what I need in life. Period. I have no more need to check up on whether VPW's teachings are right.
Can you see how my thesis is not at all absurd FROM MY POSITION?
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So_crates
**You too can see the hidden passages in PLAF. Get the Saint Vic decoder ring, only $19.99.
**I knew somone who thought there were secret messages in his morning Alphabets. One day, he claimed his cereal was haunted because it was saying,"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO." Long story short: He was eating Cheerios.
**All were hidden like a bad report card. Say, you think they were hidden because God give Saint Vic all "F"s?
**I'll save you a lot of work. Play PLAF backwards and it says, "If your hearing this, your playing the tape wrong."
But seriously, folks....
Mike wrote:
Can you see how my thesis is not at all absurd FROM MY POSITION?
No, but I can see that the quality of the output really is determined by the quality of the input.
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Twinky
Mike, I do feel sorry for you. I am very glad that PFAL delivered you from the sin-bondage of the RC church and showed you much greater truths about who God is, and his desires for his people. I'm very glad. Not just for you, but for all those other people who learned a lot of stuff that their churches, RC or otherwise, hadn't taught them. Myself included! If you paid attention to the posts all over GSC, you would see many people saying, Glad I got in, glad I got out. Presumably they are "glad" for similar reasons.
However, what any good Bible teacher should do is always point you in the direction of Jesus Christ, his accomplishments, and through him to God, the creator of our entire universe. It's hard enough to fathom Jesus; it's impossible to get a full comprehension of God - and not even a smidgeon of comprehension outside of Jesus, and what is written about him in the OT and in the gospels and in the epistles. Glory must go to God, and to Jesus.
The bad Bible teacher constantly draws attention to him/herself, and replaces Jesus as the focal point through which we must pass. The RC church usurped this function by installing a "Pope" [Father] and imposing mini-popes (ministers, also called Father). We don't need these people: but they may serve as guides, teachers, those who help us on our way.
Your "thesis" is absurd because you haven't learned to see Jesus, to see God (in your heart) because a man has interposed himself in the Sonlight. That man casts a very long shadow in your life.
There are better Bible versions than what you call KJV, actually AV; my preference is for Holman Christian Standard Bible (very readable); others prefer NIV (I don't like it); others RSV. There is a choice available! But the central themes are the same (despite your argument to the contrary).
You will not find deliverance, salvation, peace of heart, or "what you need in life" in the writings of a man, and especially not in the writings of a man whose lifestyle was so perverse. If he couldn't convince himself of how to live life - why on earth should he be able to convince anyone else? To the extent that you do find "what you need in life" in PFAL written material, have you thought why? It's because the scriptures that are quoted are satisfying that need.
I am sorry for you, because you are trying so hard and apparently expending so much effort to find the right path. But you are looking in completely the wrong place. Can't you see the Lord himself holding out his arms ready to welcome you? Waving and saying, "Here! I'm over here, come this way!"
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So_crates
It reminds me of the story of the guy on his hands and knees on his front lawn. A passerby approaches him and asks if he's okay.
"I'm fine," he says, "I'm just looking for the keys to my car."
After them both searching for an hour, the passerby asks, "Are you sure they're here?"
"I lost them in the house," the guy confesses.
"Lost them in the house?!!" the passerby asks. "Then why are you looking for them here?"
"The light's better out here."
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Mike
Socrates,
This was Einstein's favorite joke. It's very much related (though not obviously) to the famous question: If a tree falls in a forest containing no people, does it make a sound?
Both are famous because a hundred years ago the nucleus of atoms was looking like it was defying the logic that gets twisted in the joke and the question. In other words, the absurdity that they illustrate was found to ACTUALLY HAPPEN in super small places like an atom's nucleus.
I've been pondering the two of them since my Freshman Physics year in 1968. But I do not think I'm bringing that absurdity up to the large scales of human life.
So, I respectfully disagree with this association of yours.
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So_crates
For someone who decries that people need to get back to purity and simplicity, you sure know how to complicate things.
You'll notice I posted part of Twinky's post. Why?
What was that quote's theme?
Searching for things in the wrong place.
So what do you think the point of my post was?
Searching for things in the wrong place.
If your complicating something as simple as those two post, I have to wonder how much your getting away from that simplicity and purity you claim you've found in PLAF.
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Mike
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waysider
Quick question, Mike. Forgive me if it seems off-topic.
What tangible benefits have you gleaned from PFAL?
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Mike
Oh Wow! This is so cosmic. I was searching in the wrong place for Twinky's post.
I got very confused by the flurry of posting this morning, and didn't notice a page change. I now see a bunch other posts I totally missed.
I did see Twinky's post earlier and actually liked it. I could see she got a few fine points, while disagreeing of course, but at least we communicated a little more. I will find it later, and read the other posts.
But today is a busy, busy day at work, and tonight is the Deadest night of the week in San Diego.
There's a wonderful Grateful Dead cover band that has played here every Monday night till 2am for the past 26 years! The Deadheads here are nice gentle people, the lost tribe of the hippies, and their children, and their grandchildren. The whole group reminds me MUCH of the hippie Way Ministry of 1972. It's like a secret dance club; secret because it's on Mondays. I'll be missing for a while.
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So_crates
This situation reminds me of another story:
The Pope and an atheist were arguing.
The Pope finally got irritated and told the atheist: "Your just like a blindfolded man in a black room at night searching for a black cat that isn't there."
The atheist responded: "We're more alike than you think. You too are like a blindfolded man in a black room at night searching for a black cat that isn't there. The difference between us is you found it."
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Mike
I've heard that it's a dangerous Russian hacker cogno-meme, and that it self replicates after the third repetition. Be careful with it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, good question!
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Twinky
That was what my ONE THING thread was about. Which Mike successfully derailed until it got locked.
I don't believe there is ONE THING or indeed ANY thing.
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Raf
And it's a perfectly fair game question HERE. ;)
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Bolshevik
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TLC
hmmm....
Frankly, I haven't followed much of this thread, as too much of it seems to ramble off into never, never land. But that paragraph was quite a slap in the face, given how many times "me, my[self], and I" appears in it. Because if and when you actually awaken to it... it seems that was, is, and always will be a real issue with "PFAL." It primarily appeals to, and so generously fertilizes the inherently selfish nature (which we all were born into, thanks to the first man, Adam.) John 10:10 was written to (and for) the nation of Israel. It was not given to (nor written for) Gentiles. Does PFAL contain keys that can help oneself live a more abundant life? Sure, I think so. Does that alone make or mean that it is the best for knowing or learning about God or the Lord Jesus Christ (much less mean that it is, "God breathed")?
Why so much concern for and the many thoughts about "me" (i.e., you or me) growing? You don't see or recognize the "growth" of Ephesians 4 being that of Christ?
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Rocky
Apparently, I still wasn't clear... or you just can't or won't see my point. NO, you didn't prove even one tiny point. I could see that YOU were claiming what you said you were claiming. That doesn't mean I believe your claim, or acknowledge its veracity. Even IF Dictor was trying to claim, in an occult fashion, that he WAS proclaiming something that was direct insight from the Creator of heaven and earth I believe it was nothing more than a narcissistic proclamation. My view fits entirely within what Twinky explained about who gets the glory.
Edited by RockySorry, I'm done taking your (quasi-intellectual bull$hit for) bait.
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Mike
By your own admission, you have not seen the many times I'm being asked to talk about about LITTLE OLD "me."
When I say "I'm growing" and the context is spiritual, then the "I" you see in that quote, to the best of MY ability as the Christ in him, Mike. Now that you have that translation you can resume your mode of "thinketh no evil" and we can resume our talk about "Christ formed in the SOUL."
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So_crates
Shall we put it to a vote? Go back over the 20 pages of this thread and tally the times God or Jesus Christ are mentioned and compare that to the times you say "I".
You'll see the "I"s easily have it.
So, this tread is about little old you, not God nor Jesus Christ.
Here are a few examples off the top of my head:
As you can see, not all of the above examples can be taken in a spiritual context.
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TLC
Perhaps if you weren't as focused on yourself as you evidently are, you might not have so easily missed or overlooked the meat (and heart) of my post (identifying "a real issue with PFAL.")
Furthermore, your rather sarcastic (and plainly evident) insinuation that my thoughts were evil in what I wrote previously is... well, let's just call it "unappreciated."
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Mike
Whenever my posting causes a great amount of attention being focused on me,
then I know my posting is hitting a nerve.
When the message gets too difficult to deal with,
attack the messenger.
It's the standard ploy.
I prefer to focus on my message and not me.
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