I mean most of the reporting women have moved on in their careers as well as their personal lives, they have gone forward, done the best they could with their situation - situations like Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, and many many others are sufacing and starting a conversation.
I think there is an interesting conversation to be had on parallels between this movement and us in the Way. People are being called to account. People are facing reaping what they sow. People are facing their own karma so to speak.
I've been "out" for a long time so I can't speak to the current state of affairs. When I was "in", though, sexual misconduct was rampant. To think otherwise is delusional.
I mean most of the reporting women have moved on in their careers as well as their personal lives, they have gone forward, done the best they could with their situation - situations like Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, and many many others are sufacing and starting a conversation.
I think there is an interesting conversation to be had on parallels between this movement and us in the Way. People are being called to account. People are facing reaping what they sow. People are facing their own karma so to speak.
What do you thinK?
Chock, I understand being held accountable for my actions. However, I also think that some times people lie, for a variety of reasons. If the men you mentioned are guilty, of sexual exploitation, they should be punished. However, perhaps not all the men mentioned are guilty. If I remember correctly, Senator Joe McCarthy, and other members of Congress, accused people of being Communists, back in the late 1940's, and early 1950' s. It was considered a Witch Hunt. Many people, lost their jobs, and had their lives ruined, because of unfounded rumors. I am not saying that the men accused are innocent, nor am I saying they are guilty. I am saying, that I don't know. I believe that all the men accused, should have their day in court.
Chock, I understand being held accountable for my actions. However, I also think that some times people lie, for a variety of reasons. If the men you mentioned are guilty, of sexual exploitation, they should be punished. However, perhaps not all the men mentioned are guilty. If I remember correctly, Senator Joe McCarthy, and other members of Congress, accused people of being Communists, back in the late 1940's, and early 1950' s. It was considered a Witch Hunt. Many people, lost their jobs, and had their lives ruined, because of unfounded rumors. I am not saying that the men accused are innocent, nor am I saying they are guilty. I am saying, that I don't know. I believe that all the men accused, should have their day in court.
With the Way, the original perpetrator died before facing charges, and the inheriting perpetrator faced no criminal charges but several civil lawsuits which led to his political ouster. He never faced a court date - the Way avoided it and paid millions to avoid the bad publicity. So no days in court. Unless you count depositions.
With the Way, the original perpetrator died before facing charges, and the inheriting perpetrator faced no criminal charges but several civil lawsuits which led to his political ouster. He never faced a court date - the Way avoided it and paid millions to avoid the bad publicity. So no days in court. Unless you count depositions.
Sometimes the day in court is just a nice idea.
Chock, you are right in that LCM never faced criminal charges. True, TWI paid millions to avoid negative publicly. However, I think perhaps LCM is in a prison of his own making. He was forced out of the Presidency of TWI, he was forced to admit to an affair, his marriage ended, his reputation suffered. I personally have no sympathy for him; he hurt many people in TWI. Perhaps he got what he deserved, perhaps he didn't.
My take on the #MeToo movement as it relates to TWIt ministry is that we -- here at GSC have been ahead of the curve for years. Recognizing the problem of authority figures sexually exploiting women because they believed they were entitled to do so.
It may also give us a leg up on calling the offenders out in politics, sports and entertainment because we have been reflecting on and examining the issues of power relationships for a couple of decades -- if you consider it as far back as trancechat.
People criticize us here at the 'Spot. We're deluded, we've lost our salt, we're dwelling on the past, we just need to get over it, we should move on and do something positive with our lives, we are devil possessed.
In other words, we are kind of like the victim side of the #MeToo movement.
What do you think?
I don't see a direct correlation. The #MeToo movement, while possibly starting as a just cause, has turned into a political farce. I have heard many of the claims of sexual improprieties, and many of them are just utter nonsense. Where is the impropriety when a man asks a woman for a date? Or compliments how she looks? Or just watches her as she walks by? Is that harassment? .....
However, I have not seen anything here regarding TWI that has not already been brought to light by many. Yes, there may be a few who's egos were bruised so they are more vehement in what they say, but there's no denying these things took place.
So, I think comparing GSC with #MeToo does you an injustice. That's just my perception as a newbie here.
Rachael Denhollander was the first woman to publicly accuse former USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar of sexual abuse. As she worked to find justice for herself and the doctor’s other victims, Denhollander began to turn a critical eye on a community that she depended on dearly for support ― her church.
Denhollander, an evangelical Christian, saw that Biblical teachings about grace and repentance were being weaponized against victims, pressuring them into offering an easy forgiveness to their abusers. At the same time, churches lacked accountability structures that treated victims with compassion and respect.
It soon became clear to her that when it comes to properly caring for survivors of sexual abuse, the church has a long way to go ― and experts HuffPost spoke to agree.
“Church is one of the least safe places to acknowledge abuse because the way it is counseled is, more often than not, damaging to the victim,” said Denhollander, who now works as a lawyer in Kentucky. “There is an abhorrent lack of knowledge for the damage and devastation that sexual assault brings. It is with deep regret that I say the church is one of the worst places to go for help.” (continued)
As far as I'm concerned, Ms Denhollander is a righteous warrior. Her insight obviously applies to what took place during Wierwille's reign of error (and terror).
It's about church history and contemporary conduct. It also relates directly to Wierwille's sense of entitlement and inability of the cult to recognize the ramifications of its practice in the lives of victims.
I did not cite any politicians or suggest any need for legislation.
While politics has to do with people, and this is about people, it's most definitely NOT about suggesting public policy remedies to a most obvious problem.
Also, we know that Wierwille's first successor was confronted in court, with not necessarily fulfilling or completely satisfying outcomes for victims of sexual assault in the cult.
But thanks, Raf, for defining (sort of) a boundary for the discussion.
I'm not saying it's been crossed. But that's a mighty fine line. Proceed with caution. :)
Raf, thank God people are finally able to speak out about Sexual Abuse. It's about damn time!! However, I think it is one thing to accuse a person of Sexual Abuse, and another thing to prove it. It seems to me, many men nowdays, are being accused of Sexual Misconduct, but are they are guilty of it? Perhaps some are, but what about the ones who are innocent? Personally, I would be very, very careful about accusing someone, male or female, about Sexual Abuse. False accusations could ruin someone's life. However, the victims of Sexual Abuse, should have some form of justice, so that they can begin the healing process. For many victims, the healing process will take years, and years for them to process, and they will be left with shattered lives.
Well, here in Australia #metoo has begun to morph into women hating on women ! examples, attempts to ban cheerleaders, boxing round placard bearing girls in bikinis, formula one grid girls etc....appears to be more motivated by that green eyed monster ? I thought 'feminism' was about a womans right to choose ?...as a side note...I wonder if women were hit on by handsome men like Chris Hemsworth, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, would they be complaining ??
Six years ago today, I lifted my three sleepy children into their car seats, hastily threw our belongings into trash bags, and shut the door on my abuser forever.
I had 1,041 miles to drive. I weighed 105 pounds. I had no job and no home. I was scared to death.
But I knew the exhilaration of freedom the minute I pointed my wheels south and stepped on that gas pedal.
I was done sleeping with my keys and wallet hidden under my pillow. I was done trying to protect little eyes and ears from witnessing his anger. I was done with years of systematic abuse hollowing me into a shell of a person.
The times that I tried to leave, and the things that he had done to me to stop me from leaving. For years afterword, my hands involuntarily shook when I said it out loud.
Funny, 2 days ago, this past Thursday, on ABC-TV's all-female national tv show "The View", 2 of the female co-hosts admitted and detailed live on air how they STALKED the men who became their HUSBANDS!! And they laughed and laughed about it!!!
That episode of the show is located at the ABC-TV website here:
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chockfull
I mean most of the reporting women have moved on in their careers as well as their personal lives, they have gone forward, done the best they could with their situation - situations like Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, and many many others are sufacing and starting a conversation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/10/the-movement-of-metoo/542979/
This is a cool little piece on it .
I think there is an interesting conversation to be had on parallels between this movement and us in the Way. People are being called to account. People are facing reaping what they sow. People are facing their own karma so to speak.
What do you thinK?
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waysider
I've been "out" for a long time so I can't speak to the current state of affairs. When I was "in", though, sexual misconduct was rampant. To think otherwise is delusional.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, I understand being held accountable for my actions. However, I also think that some times people lie, for a variety of reasons. If the men you mentioned are guilty, of sexual exploitation, they should be punished. However, perhaps not all the men mentioned are guilty. If I remember correctly, Senator Joe McCarthy, and other members of Congress, accused people of being Communists, back in the late 1940's, and early 1950' s. It was considered a Witch Hunt. Many people, lost their jobs, and had their lives ruined, because of unfounded rumors. I am not saying that the men accused are innocent, nor am I saying they are guilty. I am saying, that I don't know. I believe that all the men accused, should have their day in court.
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chockfull
With the Way, the original perpetrator died before facing charges, and the inheriting perpetrator faced no criminal charges but several civil lawsuits which led to his political ouster. He never faced a court date - the Way avoided it and paid millions to avoid the bad publicity. So no days in court. Unless you count depositions.
Sometimes the day in court is just a nice idea.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, you are right in that LCM never faced criminal charges. True, TWI paid millions to avoid negative publicly. However, I think perhaps LCM is in a prison of his own making. He was forced out of the Presidency of TWI, he was forced to admit to an affair, his marriage ended, his reputation suffered. I personally have no sympathy for him; he hurt many people in TWI. Perhaps he got what he deserved, perhaps he didn't.
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Rocky
My take on the #MeToo movement as it relates to TWIt ministry is that we -- here at GSC have been ahead of the curve for years. Recognizing the problem of authority figures sexually exploiting women because they believed they were entitled to do so.
It may also give us a leg up on calling the offenders out in politics, sports and entertainment because we have been reflecting on and examining the issues of power relationships for a couple of decades -- if you consider it as far back as trancechat.
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Bolshevik
http://www.sciencealert.com/this-is-what-power-does-to-your-brain-and-your-body
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Taxidev
I don't see a direct correlation. The #MeToo movement, while possibly starting as a just cause, has turned into a political farce. I have heard many of the claims of sexual improprieties, and many of them are just utter nonsense. Where is the impropriety when a man asks a woman for a date? Or compliments how she looks? Or just watches her as she walks by? Is that harassment? .....
However, I have not seen anything here regarding TWI that has not already been brought to light by many. Yes, there may be a few who's egos were bruised so they are more vehement in what they say, but there's no denying these things took place.
So, I think comparing GSC with #MeToo does you an injustice. That's just my perception as a newbie here.
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Rocky
Rachael Denhollander was the first woman to publicly accuse former USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar of sexual abuse. As she worked to find justice for herself and the doctor’s other victims, Denhollander began to turn a critical eye on a community that she depended on dearly for support ― her church.
Denhollander, an evangelical Christian, saw that Biblical teachings about grace and repentance were being weaponized against victims, pressuring them into offering an easy forgiveness to their abusers. At the same time, churches lacked accountability structures that treated victims with compassion and respect.
It soon became clear to her that when it comes to properly caring for survivors of sexual abuse, the church has a long way to go ― and experts HuffPost spoke to agree.
Denhollander opened up about her disappointment with the American evangelical church in an interview Wednesday with Christianity Today’s Morgan Lee.
“Church is one of the least safe places to acknowledge abuse because the way it is counseled is, more often than not, damaging to the victim,” said Denhollander, who now works as a lawyer in Kentucky. “There is an abhorrent lack of knowledge for the damage and devastation that sexual assault brings. It is with deep regret that I say the church is one of the worst places to go for help.” (continued)
As far as I'm concerned, Ms Denhollander is a righteous warrior. Her insight obviously applies to what took place during Wierwille's reign of error (and terror).
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Raf
Valid, interesting discussion.
____________________________
Politics.
I'm not saying it's been crossed. But that's a mighty fine line. Proceed with caution. :)
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Rocky
It's about church history and contemporary conduct. It also relates directly to Wierwille's sense of entitlement and inability of the cult to recognize the ramifications of its practice in the lives of victims.
I did not cite any politicians or suggest any need for legislation.
While politics has to do with people, and this is about people, it's most definitely NOT about suggesting public policy remedies to a most obvious problem.
Also, we know that Wierwille's first successor was confronted in court, with not necessarily fulfilling or completely satisfying outcomes for victims of sexual assault in the cult.
But thanks, Raf, for defining (sort of) a boundary for the discussion.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Raf, thank God people are finally able to speak out about Sexual Abuse. It's about damn time!! However, I think it is one thing to accuse a person of Sexual Abuse, and another thing to prove it. It seems to me, many men nowdays, are being accused of Sexual Misconduct, but are they are guilty of it? Perhaps some are, but what about the ones who are innocent? Personally, I would be very, very careful about accusing someone, male or female, about Sexual Abuse. False accusations could ruin someone's life. However, the victims of Sexual Abuse, should have some form of justice, so that they can begin the healing process. For many victims, the healing process will take years, and years for them to process, and they will be left with shattered lives.
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Allan
Well, here in Australia #metoo has begun to morph into women hating on women ! examples, attempts to ban cheerleaders, boxing round placard bearing girls in bikinis, formula one grid girls etc....appears to be more motivated by that green eyed monster ? I thought 'feminism' was about a womans right to choose ?...as a side note...I wonder if women were hit on by handsome men like Chris Hemsworth, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, would they be complaining ??
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Rocky
Deconstructing Fundamentalism
Independence Day
Six years ago today, I lifted my three sleepy children into their car seats, hastily threw our belongings into trash bags, and shut the door on my abuser forever.
I had 1,041 miles to drive. I weighed 105 pounds. I had no job and no home. I was scared to death.
But I knew the exhilaration of freedom the minute I pointed my wheels south and stepped on that gas pedal.
I was done sleeping with my keys and wallet hidden under my pillow. I was done trying to protect little eyes and ears from witnessing his anger. I was done with years of systematic abuse hollowing me into a shell of a person.
The times that I tried to leave, and the things that he had done to me to stop me from leaving. For years afterword, my hands involuntarily shook when I said it out loud.
Me too. Me f**king too. (more)
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Twinky
That looks like a good blog, Rocky.
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GoldStar
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