not sure if The Way International could make the shift, Chockfull,
from what I remember when I was in TWI I Think many folks accepted that limited form of communication in most situations – whether it was a class format, fellowship teaching, one-on-one counseling…whatever. It was often a one way street - - with the flow of traffic being subliminally directed to give deference to the TWI-mindset……it wasn’t just some jargon folks used as if there was an official way-speak lexicon - - actually, I think it was more along the lines of a cunningly mandated collective consciousness…whether we realized it or not we were led to think, speak and act a certain way as TWI hierarchy set the example. As the dynamics of group-think tends to go – we follow the flow - - an artificial collective consciousness, if you will.
Two-way communication was often stymied by the simple things:
- Listening to a teaching tape does not allow students to ask the teacher questions. Also having students hold their questions until the end of the class is a good way to have students forget about the importance or context of their question.
- Answering a question with a question avoids an exchange of information.
- Pat answers are a quick, evasive, and oversimplified attempt to resolve problems...such as: just renew your mind…why don’t you do a word study of “forgiveness”…you really should take the blah blah class – it would really help you in your walk.
- People were never encouraged to speak freely - i.e. say how you really feel or think about something - rather always frame your ideas and even personal issues in a positive TWI-centric format.
== == == ==
I tend to think that the only reason TWI hierarchy has ever had an ear to the ground was so that they could have a heads-up on talk and trends that would threaten their reins of control...It was never about catering to the needs of the "customers" but about securing the needs of the hierarchy.
not sure if The Way International could make the shift, Chockfull,
Can a tiger change it's stripes? That's kind of what it would take. Do you actually think that all of those people that have spent multiple decades climbing a hierarchy of positions are going to change and give it all up?
Can a tiger change it's stripes? That's kind of what it would take. Do you actually think that all of those people that have spent multiple decades climbing a hierarchy of positions are going to change and give it all up?
from what I remember when I was in TWI I Think many folks accepted that limited form of communication in most situations – whether it was a class format, fellowship teaching, one-on-one counseling…whatever. It was often a one way street - - with the flow of traffic being subliminally directed to give deference to the TWI-mindset……it wasn’t just some jargon folks used as if there was an official way-speak lexicon - - actually, I think it was more along the lines of a cunningly mandated collective consciousness…whether we realized it or not we were led to think, speak and act a certain way as TWI hierarchy set the example. As the dynamics of group-think tends to go – we follow the flow - - an artificial collective consciousness, if you will.
Two-way communication was often stymied by the simple things:
- Listening to a teaching tape does not allow students to ask the teacher questions. Also having students hold their questions until the end of the class is a good way to have students forget about the importance or context of their question.
- Answering a question with a question avoids an exchange of information.
- Pat answers are a quick, evasive, and oversimplified attempt to resolve problems...such as: just renew your mind…why don’t you do a word study of “forgiveness”…you really should take the blah blah class – it would really help you in your walk.
- People were never encouraged to speak freely - i.e. say how you really feel or think about something - rather always frame your ideas and even personal issues in a positive TWI-centric format.
== == == ==
I tend to think that the only reason TWI hierarchy has ever had an ear to the ground was so that they could have a heads-up on talk and trends that would threaten their reins of control...It was never about catering to the needs of the "customers" but about securing the needs of the hierarchy.
Yes we definitely became brainwashed to accept the one-way communication as the norm. That is a collective consciousness. Frame every conversation with where it sits with respect to the "higher powers". Which that section in scripture is the one teaching leaders to be less Machiavellian a-holes, not for them to use to mandate flock behavior.
From my perspective the only way TWI hierarchy ever has an ear to the ground is because it is attached to their head which they have buried in the sand of their own egos.
i mean like they are just so far off with the "let the class do the work" mentality it's not funny. That is every bit as lazy from a management perspective as the plagarist who first stole the class outline.
Can a tiger change it's stripes? That's kind of what it would take. Do you actually think that all of those people that have spent multiple decades climbing a hierarchy of positions are going to change and give it all up?
Sure it could happen.
Hey I'm being positive for the holidays.
Tigers can't change their stripes (and leopards can't change their spots) because it's in their DNA.
Chockful, your OP reminded me of the Socratic method. From the Foundation for Critical Thinking:
"The oldest, and still the most powerful, teaching tactic for fostering critical thinking is Socratic teaching. In Socratic teaching we focus on giving students questions, not answers. We model an inquiring, probing mind by continually probing into the subject with questions. Fortunately, the abilities we gain by focusing on the elements of reasoning in a disciplined and self-assessing way, and the logical relationships that result from such disciplined thought, prepare us for Socratic questioning."
TWIt wouldn't know critical thinking if it bit the organization on the a$$. Dictor eschewed critical thinking in "his corps."
On the subject of pat answers, it's disgraceful for so-called leaders to rely on them like twi mandates/mandated. They are sloppy, lazy, and don't help people as much as silence people. But, it started from the top.
pfal: vpw quoted the question "If God is All-Powerful, can He make a rock so big he can't lift it?" His answer in the class-which he had time to prepare, was "God is All-Knowing. He wouldn't DO a stupid thing like that." That's a pat answer and doesn't address the question. Maybe 2 years in (3 tops), I phrased my answer to that question.
"God is Spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). So, the error is in thinking God has a body to lift with in the first place."
Raf followed up by addressing how the question supposes 2 numbers with the value of infinity, with one number supposedly of a greater value of infinity. That's MATHEMATICALLY impossible, so the question makes no sense since it doesn't even work on paper.
We were teenagers with little twi background and we had better answers than vpw. He was lazy and preferred pat answers. We were not and we did not.
Tigers can't change their stripes (and leopards can't change their spots) because it's in their DNA.
Chockful, your OP reminded me of the Socratic method. From the Foundation for Critical Thinking:
"The oldest, and still the most powerful, teaching tactic for fostering critical thinking is Socratic teaching. In Socratic teaching we focus on giving students questions, not answers. We model an inquiring, probing mind by continually probing into the subject with questions. Fortunately, the abilities we gain by focusing on the elements of reasoning in a disciplined and self-assessing way, and the logical relationships that result from such disciplined thought, prepare us for Socratic questioning."
TWIt wouldn't know critical thinking if it bit the organization on the a$$. Dictor eschewed critical thinking in "his corps."
Rocky you are too kind. I appreciate a good discussion. I'm sure Socrates did too. Before the hemlock.
Tigers can't change their stripes (and leopards can't change their spots) because it's in their DNA.
Chockful, your OP reminded me of the Socratic method. From the Foundation for Critical Thinking:
"The oldest, and still the most powerful, teaching tactic for fostering critical thinking is Socratic teaching. In Socratic teaching we focus on giving students questions, not answers. We model an inquiring, probing mind by continually probing into the subject with questions. Fortunately, the abilities we gain by focusing on the elements of reasoning in a disciplined and self-assessing way, and the logical relationships that result from such disciplined thought, prepare us for Socratic questioning."
TWIt wouldn't know critical thinking if it bit the organization on the a$$. Dictor eschewed critical thinking in "his corps."
Totally agree........corps "training" was regurgitated drivel and straight-up indoctrination, no thinking minds need apply.
And.......that's why I never visited that corps site. Why would I want to hang with indoctrinated sycophants in this exclusive club? Yeah, it was an exclusive club alright........exclusively brain dead of any critical thinking skills and acting accordingly.
Totally agree........corps "training" was regurgitated drivel and straight-up indoctrination, no thinking minds need apply.
And.......that's why I never visited that corps site. Why would I want to hang with indoctrinated sycophants in this exclusive club? Yeah, it was an exclusive club alright........exclusively brain dead of any critical thinking skills and acting accordingly.
John Rupp being a shiny example of your points when he proudly said to me "Im not a yes man, I'm a Yes Maam. When Rosalie asks me to do something i just say Yes Maam!"
The Way is a cult. Expect it to behave like anything else and you'll be disappointed.
Way, once a cult, always a cult? I don't think TWI will ever stop being a cult, because there is no incentive to change. The leaders are sitting on top of millions of dollars, which they can draw from, and they do. Why would the leaders want change; it would not be in their best interests. There is no interest, like self-interest.
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T-Bone
not sure if The Way International could make the shift, Chockfull,
from what I remember when I was in TWI I Think many folks accepted that limited form of communication in most situations – whether it was a class format, fellowship teaching, one-on-one counseling…whatever. It was often a one way street - - with the flow of traffic being subliminally directed to give deference to the TWI-mindset……it wasn’t just some jargon folks used as if there was an official way-speak lexicon - - actually, I think it was more along the lines of a cunningly mandated collective consciousness…whether we realized it or not we were led to think, speak and act a certain way as TWI hierarchy set the example. As the dynamics of group-think tends to go – we follow the flow - - an artificial collective consciousness, if you will.
Two-way communication was often stymied by the simple things:
- Listening to a teaching tape does not allow students to ask the teacher questions. Also having students hold their questions until the end of the class is a good way to have students forget about the importance or context of their question.
- Answering a question with a question avoids an exchange of information.
- Pat answers are a quick, evasive, and oversimplified attempt to resolve problems...such as: just renew your mind…why don’t you do a word study of “forgiveness”…you really should take the blah blah class – it would really help you in your walk.
- People were never encouraged to speak freely - i.e. say how you really feel or think about something - rather always frame your ideas and even personal issues in a positive TWI-centric format.
== == == ==
I tend to think that the only reason TWI hierarchy has ever had an ear to the ground was so that they could have a heads-up on talk and trends that would threaten their reins of control...It was never about catering to the needs of the "customers" but about securing the needs of the hierarchy.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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waysider
The Way is a cult. Expect it to behave like anything else and you'll be disappointed.
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chockfull
Can a tiger change it's stripes? That's kind of what it would take. Do you actually think that all of those people that have spent multiple decades climbing a hierarchy of positions are going to change and give it all up?
Sure it could happen.
Hey I'm being positive for the holidays.
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OldSkool
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chockfull
Look, in support of my positive viewpoint, OldSkool has produced an artist's depiction of the Board of Directors at the return of Christ.
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chockfull
Yes we definitely became brainwashed to accept the one-way communication as the norm. That is a collective consciousness. Frame every conversation with where it sits with respect to the "higher powers". Which that section in scripture is the one teaching leaders to be less Machiavellian a-holes, not for them to use to mandate flock behavior.
From my perspective the only way TWI hierarchy ever has an ear to the ground is because it is attached to their head which they have buried in the sand of their own egos.
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chockfull
i mean like they are just so far off with the "let the class do the work" mentality it's not funny. That is every bit as lazy from a management perspective as the plagarist who first stole the class outline.
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OldSkool
Roflmao!!
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Rocky
Tigers can't change their stripes (and leopards can't change their spots) because it's in their DNA.
Chockful, your OP reminded me of the Socratic method. From the Foundation for Critical Thinking:
"The oldest, and still the most powerful, teaching tactic for fostering critical thinking is Socratic teaching. In Socratic teaching we focus on giving students questions, not answers. We model an inquiring, probing mind by continually probing into the subject with questions. Fortunately, the abilities we gain by focusing on the elements of reasoning in a disciplined and self-assessing way, and the logical relationships that result from such disciplined thought, prepare us for Socratic questioning."
TWIt wouldn't know critical thinking if it bit the organization on the a$$. Dictor eschewed critical thinking in "his corps."
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WordWolf
On the subject of pat answers, it's disgraceful for so-called leaders to rely on them like twi mandates/mandated. They are sloppy, lazy, and don't help people as much as silence people. But, it started from the top.
pfal: vpw quoted the question "If God is All-Powerful, can He make a rock so big he can't lift it?" His answer in the class-which he had time to prepare, was "God is All-Knowing. He wouldn't DO a stupid thing like that." That's a pat answer and doesn't address the question. Maybe 2 years in (3 tops), I phrased my answer to that question.
"God is Spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). So, the error is in thinking God has a body to lift with in the first place."
Raf followed up by addressing how the question supposes 2 numbers with the value of infinity, with one number supposedly of a greater value of infinity. That's MATHEMATICALLY impossible, so the question makes no sense since it doesn't even work on paper.
We were teenagers with little twi background and we had better answers than vpw. He was lazy and preferred pat answers. We were not and we did not.
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T-Bone
Cool story, WordWolf…teens versus the LAZY boy which could stand for the Little Ambition Zealous Yellowbelly, vpw.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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chockfull
Rocky you are too kind. I appreciate a good discussion. I'm sure Socrates did too. Before the hemlock.
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skyrider
Totally agree........corps "training" was regurgitated drivel and straight-up indoctrination, no thinking minds need apply.
And.......that's why I never visited that corps site. Why would I want to hang with indoctrinated sycophants in this exclusive club? Yeah, it was an exclusive club alright........exclusively brain dead of any critical thinking skills and acting accordingly.
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OldSkool
John Rupp being a shiny example of your points when he proudly said to me "Im not a yes man, I'm a Yes Maam. When Rosalie asks me to do something i just say Yes Maam!"
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Twit and snowflake
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T-Bone
Sounds like a Disney movie
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
yeah, VPW as Walt Disney, NOT!
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T-Bone
Yeah but vpw was a little Goofy and he ran a mickey mouse operation
Edited by T-Bonedetails
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, once a cult, always a cult? I don't think TWI will ever stop being a cult, because there is no incentive to change. The leaders are sitting on top of millions of dollars, which they can draw from, and they do. Why would the leaders want change; it would not be in their best interests. There is no interest, like self-interest.
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Grace Valerie Claire
T-Bone,
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