Cool - I figured you'd fill in more facts. Not so sure about misstated when many details have a ? in back of them.
So yes, the timeline on this I have straight now. Geer's Poop paper was 1986 Corpse Fellowship. Everyone was kind of staggering around after that. By 9 months later, you guys had already assimilated that letter, sent it out, then Geer responded with his assessment tape and since loyboy and coward were pretty much under his spell then, you guys all got booted.
After that, the BOT's were still under his spell for another year, then they separated from Geer in 1988, and after that loyboy went on the attack. The loyalty letter was sent out 1988 summer and others who may have even quoted your letter saying "I stand with God and on the Word, not for or against anyone" got booted too.
I didn't mean to offend you criticizing the writing of the paper. I never was a fan of the jallyroll writing style. His books always got on my nerves too. Like a too happy clown or something. That timeframe everyone was under what is termed "the Fog Years". Plenty of threads on that here at GS. Everyone was depressed, didn't know what to do or where to go or what was true. That's why it was termed "the Fog Years".
So in the midst of all that fog is where this letter arose. You guys were confronting the BOT on being "off the Word".
But here's the rub. Myself and most of everyone else had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE that there was a perverted sexual swinger's club that was running the ministry at the time. So when the language was toned down perhaps from your original thoughts and intent, we didn't know about dictor's perversions. I honestly never knew about any of them until Waydale and GSC, other than what I was told by the party line in the Way after you guys left.
Like I say, I was a young mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed bull....
Anyhoo, that's what the Who says "Talkin' Bout My Generation".
I think accurately the fact that you guys sent out 7000 copies of that letter probably was a major contributor to the 4/5 Exodus from the Way that happened during that timeframe.
I was the frigging remnant.
Chock, excellent summation!! I didn't know how evil TWI was, until I came here. But, I know many of the people here at the GSC, witnessed for themselves, the evilness of TWI; they know what they are talking about.
So yes, the timeline on this I have straight now. Geer's Poop paper was 1986 Corpse Fellowship. Everyone was kind of staggering around after that. By 9 months later, you guys had already assimilated that letter, sent it out, then Geer responded with his assessment tape and since loyboy and coward were pretty much under his spell then, you guys all got booted.
After that, the BOT's were still under his spell for another year, then they separated from Geer in 1988, and after that loyboy went on the attack. The loyalty letter was sent out 1988 summer and others who may have even quoted your letter saying "I stand with God and on the Word, not for or against anyone" got booted too.
Thanks chockfull. You did not offend me at all, bro! I'm just a real picky fella when it comes to TWIt'n'Vic history. I know you meant no offense.
POP was first read by the BOTs at WIBAP in Nashville, last weekend in March, 1986. Geer's instructions to them were to read it, then sign it to acknowledge they had read the entire thing. Then, they were to show it to me, as a "witness"'that they had indeed read it. I had no plans to attend WIBAP that year. However, I received a phone call from Howard the Tuesday before, telling me that they had booked my flights and a room in Nashville, and gave me a teaching slot. Little did I know what the real reason was!
On the Saturday evening of WIBAP, da Forehead came to my door and handed me the only copy of POP there was in the USA, asked me to read it, and then get back to them immediately. Do not show it to, or discuss it with ANYONE. The original copy had the signatures of all 3 BOTS on the cover page with a short note from each. I remember them vividly because they were in 3 different colors of ink. Da Forehead blue, Don black, and Howard red. On Sunday as I was leaving, Howard told me that I'd be receiving further instructions from Geer, and plan on being at HQ in April, probably for at least 3 weeks!
In April, 1986, Geer read POP at a specially called leaders' meeting which included all the limp and region coords, all the Campus coordinators and staff from every root locale, and all the corpse and staff at HQ. Immediately after reading it, Geer announced the addition of Townsend and Caballero to the BOTs, and then revealed who was to be in the yuk twig and why. He said that the members of that twig and their reason for being in it, were dictated to him by dictor himself. From that day on, I was at HQ, while my family was in MA. I went back to MA in late July, 1986 to make the move to HQ. Then I was at HQ until 12/14/1986, when we left. During that time, the yuk twig met 2-3 hours a day, EVERY single day. Some times the meetings lasted 12-14 hours! They often featured telexes from geer in Scotland with "instructions by revelation" on what we were supposed to be doing. During that time my "assignment" was Corpse Director (replacing da Forehead), In-Rez corpse coord at HQ, and "oversight" of the US Trunk as "necessary". Duke Clarke was the trunk coord at the time.
The Fog Years began in April, 1985, and "ended" with the November 1988 or 89 letter from geer to the BOTs separating himself from the BOTs because of their "refusal to do the word and live the corpse principles", and refusing to change. That's here in the archives too. That preceded the "loyalty oath letter" in the beginning of the following March, either 1989 or 90. That's also here in the archives so we can check the dates.
I was not booted. I resigned from everything after 10 days under "house arrest" in my trailer at HQ. All our belongings were stored and locked in the warehouse part of the OSC, to be shipped to us at a later date. Robert Belt resigned from the Southwest Region and TX limb at the end of December 1986.Tom Reahard came to my house from AZ on the weekend of 2/7-9/1987, because he was the Area Coord in Phoenix, AZ, and heard his limp and region coord, Dave Standage, announce that I was "born again of the wrong seed" and that's why I left the minus-try. Tom and I had become close friends in NY while he was at Cornell. He married Lori's best friend from Elmont, NY (Long Island), Barbara Paciano, and took the AC in Rye, NY, in March, 1972 with us. Lori and I went into the 4th corpse, and Tom and Barbara went into the 5th corpse after he graduated from Cornell. Tom grilled me all weekend and I showed him everything I had.....B.G.'s syllabus, Stiles' book side by side with RTHST, copies of the letters from the E&R church elders firing him with the reasons for it, notes and tapes from the yuk twig, etc. Tom also bought us furniture for the house since we had none. LOL!
Tom returned to AZ & he resigned immediately. He called Pat Lynn (The Lynn's were limp coords in D.C.) and told her all about our weekend and told her she had to go to my house ASAP to hear what I had to say. Pat came the very next weekend, Valentine's Day weekend, and we had quite the time. That is when I had the joy of watching true, authentic repentance on her part, tearful, painful acceptance of the truth and the facts. She ended that weekend telling me, "You HAVE to get to John! If not, I'm leaving!"
So arrangements were made by Rob Shipley (5th corpse) in MD, who got a large limp meeting with D.C. together, at which Pat, and Sue Pierce were in attendance. That was on Feb 21, 1987. John and Pat were still "full-time". So, I stayed at the D.C. limp home with Sue Pierce and that's when Sue and Pat came up with the idea of the letter. Pat called Tom, and he arranged and paid for the travel, rooms, and food at the local Holiday Inn in Alexandria, VA, where we spent a total of 5 days together, 3 of them writing the letter. That was 2/27/1987. After the Geer tape of 3/26/87, Howard went to the D.C. limp home on April Fool's Day, 1987, and fired John and Pat and everyone else who worked there. John and Pat were the only ones in the group who were fired. The rest of us resigned our positions, in December, '86, and February, '87.
So, that's the chronology of the fawg years. The only things we need to lock in, are the dates of the Geer November letter which preceded the following March's loyalty oath letter. As I said, they're both in the archives here at GSC, so we'll be able to find them fairly easily. Thanks for reading, and.................peace.
Thanks chockfull. You did not offend me at all, bro! I'm just a real picky fella when it comes to TWIt'n'Vic history. I know you meant no offense.
POP was first read by the BOTs at WIBAP in Nashville, last weekend in March, 1986. Geer's instructions to them were to read it, then sign it to acknowledge they had read the entire thing. Then, they were to show it to me, as a "witness"'that they had indeed read it. I had no plans to attend WIBAP that year. However, I received a phone call from Howard the Tuesday before, telling me that they had booked my flights and a room in Nashville, and gave me a teaching slot. Little did I know what the real reason was!
On the Saturday evening of WIBAP, da Forehead came to my door and handed me the only copy of POP there was in the USA, asked me to read it, and then get back to them immediately. Do not show it to, or discuss it with ANYONE. The original copy had the signatures of all 3 BOTS on the cover page with a short note from each. I remember them vividly because they were in 3 different colors of ink. Da Forehead blue, Don black, and Howard red. On Sunday as I was leaving, Howard told me that I'd be receiving further instructions from Geer, and plan on being at HQ in April, probably for at least 3 weeks!
In April, 1986, Geer read POP at a specially called leaders' meeting which included all the limp and region coords, all the Campus coordinators and staff from every root locale, and all the corpse and staff at HQ. Immediately after reading it, Geer announced the addition of Townsend and Caballero to the BOTs, and then revealed who was to be in the yuk twig and why. He said that the members of that twig and their reason for being in it, were dictated to him by dictor himself. From that day on, I was at HQ, while my family was in MA. I went back to MA in late July, 1986 to make the move to HQ. Then I was at HQ until 12/14/1986, when we left. During that time, the yuk twig met 2-3 hours a day, EVERY single day. Some times the meetings lasted 12-14 hours! They often featured telexes from geer in Scotland with "instructions by revelation" on what we were supposed to be doing. During that time my "assignment" was Corpse Director (replacing da Forehead), In-Rez corpse coord at HQ, and "oversight" of the US Trunk as "necessary". Duke Clarke was the trunk coord at the time.
The Fog Years began in April, 1985, and "ended" with the November 1988 or 89 letter from geer to the BOTs separating himself from the BOTs because of their "refusal to do the word and live the corpse principles", and refusing to change. That's here in the archives too. That preceded the "loyalty oath letter" in the beginning of the following March, either 1989 or 90. That's also here in the archives so we can check the dates.
I was not booted. I resigned from everything after 10 days under "house arrest" in my trailer at HQ. All our belongings were stored and locked in the warehouse part of the OSC, to be shipped to us at a later date. Robert Belt resigned from the Southwest Region and TX limb at the end of December 1986.Tom Reahard came to my house from AZ on the weekend of 2/7-9/1987, because he was the Area Coord in Phoenix, AZ, and heard his limp and region coord, Dave Standage, announce that I was "born again of the wrong seed" and that's why I left the minus-try. Tom and I had become close friends in NY while he was at Cornell. He married Lori's best friend from Elmont, NY (Long Island), Barbara Paciano, and took the AC in Rye, NY, in March, 1972 with us. Lori and I went into the 4th corpse, and Tom and Barbara went into the 5th corpse after he graduated from Cornell. Tom grilled me all weekend and I showed him everything I had.....B.G.'s syllabus, Stiles' book side by side with RTHST, copies of the letters from the E&R church elders firing him with the reasons for it, notes and tapes from the yuk twig, etc. Tom also bought us furniture for the house since we had none. LOL!
Tom returned to AZ & he resigned immediately. He called Pat Lynn (The Lynn's were limp coords in D.C.) and told her all about our weekend and told her she had to go to my house ASAP to hear what I had to say. Pat came the very next weekend, Valentine's Day weekend, and we had quite the time. That is when I had the joy of watching true, authentic repentance on her part, tearful, painful acceptance of the truth and the facts. She ended that weekend telling me, "You HAVE to get to John! If not, I'm leaving!"
So arrangements were made by Rob Shipley (5th corpse) in MD, who got a large limp meeting with D.C. together, at which Pat, and Sue Pierce were in attendance. That was on Feb 21, 1987. John and Pat were still "full-time". So, I stayed at the D.C. limp home with Sue Pierce and that's when Sue and Pat came up with the idea of the letter. Pat called Tom, and he arranged and paid for the travel, rooms, and food at the local Holiday Inn in Alexandria, VA, where we spent a total of 5 days together, 3 of them writing the letter. That was 2/27/1987. After the Geer tape of 3/26/87, Howard went to the D.C. limp home on April Fool's Day, 1987, and fired John and Pat and everyone else who worked there. John and Pat were the only ones in the group who were fired. The rest of us resigned our positions, in December, '86, and February, '87.
So, that's the chronology of the fawg years. The only things we need to lock in, are the dates of the Geer November letter which preceded the following March's loyalty oath letter. As I said, they're both in the archives here at GSC, so we'll be able to find them fairly easily. Thanks for reading, and.................peace.
DWBH, wow!! It always amazes me how much you know about the inner workings of TWI. Again, thanks for all the information. But I am so happy to hear that Pat Lynn, had a complete change of heart. I remember when she, and John were the Limb Leaders of New York, back in the early 1980's. I thought she was very special person, and I really enjoyed her teachings. I hope that she is doing well, wherever she is.
She's doing quite well, Grace. She has a fabulous relationship with her daughter and her family. She's still speaking out and she's an activist. She's a terrific lady imho.
She's doing quite well, Grace. She has a fabulous relationship with her daughter and her family. She's still speaking out and she's an activist. She's a terrific lady imho.
DWBH, that's wonderful!! I always liked Pat; I thought she was down-to-earth, and a real person. I am glad life is treating her well.
Tom and I had become close friends in NY while he was at Cornell. He married Lori's best friend from Elmont, NY (Long Island), Barbara Paciano, and took the AC in Rye, NY, in March, 1972 with us. Lori and I went into the 4th corpse, and Tom and Barbara went into the 5th corpse after he graduated from Cornell. Tom grilled me all weekend and I showed him everything I had.....B.G.'s syllabus, Stiles' book side by side with RTHST, copies of the letters from the E&R church elders firing him with the reasons for it, notes and tapes from the yuk twig, etc. Tom also bought us furniture for the house since we had none. LOL!
Tom returned to AZ & he resigned immediately. He called Pat Lynn (The Lynn's were limp coords in D.C.) and told her all about our weekend and told her she had to go to my house ASAP to hear what I had to say. Pat came the very next weekend, Valentine's Day weekend, and we had quite the time. That is when I had the joy of watching true, authentic repentance on her part, tearful, painful acceptance of the truth and the facts. She ended that weekend telling me, "You HAVE to get to John! If not, I'm leaving!"
So arrangements were made by Rob Shipley (5th corpse) in MD, who got a large limp meeting with D.C. together, at which Pat, and Sue Pierce were in attendance. That was on Feb 21, 1987. John and Pat were still "full-time". So, I stayed at the D.C. limp home with Sue Pierce and that's when Sue and Pat came up with the idea of the letter. Pat called Tom, and he arranged and paid for the travel, rooms, and food at the local Holiday Inn in Alexandria, VA, where we spent a total of 5 days together, 3 of them writing the letter. That was 2/27/1987. After the Geer tape of 3/26/87, Howard went to the D.C. limp home on April Fool's Day, 1987, and fired John and Pat and everyone else who worked there. John and Pat were the only ones in the group who were fired. The rest of us resigned our positions, in December, '86, and February, '87.
So, that's the chronology of the fawg years. The only things we need to lock in, are the dates of the Geer November letter which preceded the following March's loyalty oath letter. As I said, they're both in the archives here at GSC, so we'll be able to find them fairly easily. Thanks for reading, and.................peace.
, after we signed it, I stood up at the table and pulled jally up by his shirt collar, pulling his face directly up to mine, and said with great seriousness: "You better not .... us on this John!", then let him go. Well, Jally DID .... every one of us who signed that letter including his own wife.
The Scorpion And The Frog
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.”
The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?”
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, excellent summation!! I didn't know how evil TWI was, until I came here. But, I know many of the people here at the GSC, witnessed for themselves, the evilness of TWI; they know what they are talking about.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Thanks chockfull. You did not offend me at all, bro! I'm just a real picky fella when it comes to TWIt'n'Vic history. I know you meant no offense.
POP was first read by the BOTs at WIBAP in Nashville, last weekend in March, 1986. Geer's instructions to them were to read it, then sign it to acknowledge they had read the entire thing. Then, they were to show it to me, as a "witness"'that they had indeed read it. I had no plans to attend WIBAP that year. However, I received a phone call from Howard the Tuesday before, telling me that they had booked my flights and a room in Nashville, and gave me a teaching slot. Little did I know what the real reason was!
On the Saturday evening of WIBAP, da Forehead came to my door and handed me the only copy of POP there was in the USA, asked me to read it, and then get back to them immediately. Do not show it to, or discuss it with ANYONE. The original copy had the signatures of all 3 BOTS on the cover page with a short note from each. I remember them vividly because they were in 3 different colors of ink. Da Forehead blue, Don black, and Howard red. On Sunday as I was leaving, Howard told me that I'd be receiving further instructions from Geer, and plan on being at HQ in April, probably for at least 3 weeks!
In April, 1986, Geer read POP at a specially called leaders' meeting which included all the limp and region coords, all the Campus coordinators and staff from every root locale, and all the corpse and staff at HQ. Immediately after reading it, Geer announced the addition of Townsend and Caballero to the BOTs, and then revealed who was to be in the yuk twig and why. He said that the members of that twig and their reason for being in it, were dictated to him by dictor himself. From that day on, I was at HQ, while my family was in MA. I went back to MA in late July, 1986 to make the move to HQ. Then I was at HQ until 12/14/1986, when we left. During that time, the yuk twig met 2-3 hours a day, EVERY single day. Some times the meetings lasted 12-14 hours! They often featured telexes from geer in Scotland with "instructions by revelation" on what we were supposed to be doing. During that time my "assignment" was Corpse Director (replacing da Forehead), In-Rez corpse coord at HQ, and "oversight" of the US Trunk as "necessary". Duke Clarke was the trunk coord at the time.
The Fog Years began in April, 1985, and "ended" with the November 1988 or 89 letter from geer to the BOTs separating himself from the BOTs because of their "refusal to do the word and live the corpse principles", and refusing to change. That's here in the archives too. That preceded the "loyalty oath letter" in the beginning of the following March, either 1989 or 90. That's also here in the archives so we can check the dates.
I was not booted. I resigned from everything after 10 days under "house arrest" in my trailer at HQ. All our belongings were stored and locked in the warehouse part of the OSC, to be shipped to us at a later date. Robert Belt resigned from the Southwest Region and TX limb at the end of December 1986.Tom Reahard came to my house from AZ on the weekend of 2/7-9/1987, because he was the Area Coord in Phoenix, AZ, and heard his limp and region coord, Dave Standage, announce that I was "born again of the wrong seed" and that's why I left the minus-try. Tom and I had become close friends in NY while he was at Cornell. He married Lori's best friend from Elmont, NY (Long Island), Barbara Paciano, and took the AC in Rye, NY, in March, 1972 with us. Lori and I went into the 4th corpse, and Tom and Barbara went into the 5th corpse after he graduated from Cornell. Tom grilled me all weekend and I showed him everything I had.....B.G.'s syllabus, Stiles' book side by side with RTHST, copies of the letters from the E&R church elders firing him with the reasons for it, notes and tapes from the yuk twig, etc. Tom also bought us furniture for the house since we had none. LOL!
Tom returned to AZ & he resigned immediately. He called Pat Lynn (The Lynn's were limp coords in D.C.) and told her all about our weekend and told her she had to go to my house ASAP to hear what I had to say. Pat came the very next weekend, Valentine's Day weekend, and we had quite the time. That is when I had the joy of watching true, authentic repentance on her part, tearful, painful acceptance of the truth and the facts. She ended that weekend telling me, "You HAVE to get to John! If not, I'm leaving!"
So arrangements were made by Rob Shipley (5th corpse) in MD, who got a large limp meeting with D.C. together, at which Pat, and Sue Pierce were in attendance. That was on Feb 21, 1987. John and Pat were still "full-time". So, I stayed at the D.C. limp home with Sue Pierce and that's when Sue and Pat came up with the idea of the letter. Pat called Tom, and he arranged and paid for the travel, rooms, and food at the local Holiday Inn in Alexandria, VA, where we spent a total of 5 days together, 3 of them writing the letter. That was 2/27/1987. After the Geer tape of 3/26/87, Howard went to the D.C. limp home on April Fool's Day, 1987, and fired John and Pat and everyone else who worked there. John and Pat were the only ones in the group who were fired. The rest of us resigned our positions, in December, '86, and February, '87.
So, that's the chronology of the fawg years. The only things we need to lock in, are the dates of the Geer November letter which preceded the following March's loyalty oath letter. As I said, they're both in the archives here at GSC, so we'll be able to find them fairly easily. Thanks for reading, and.................peace.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, wow!! It always amazes me how much you know about the inner workings of TWI. Again, thanks for all the information. But I am so happy to hear that Pat Lynn, had a complete change of heart. I remember when she, and John were the Limb Leaders of New York, back in the early 1980's. I thought she was very special person, and I really enjoyed her teachings. I hope that she is doing well, wherever she is.
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DontWorryBeHappy
She's doing quite well, Grace. She has a fabulous relationship with her daughter and her family. She's still speaking out and she's an activist. She's a terrific lady imho.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, that's wonderful!! I always liked Pat; I thought she was down-to-earth, and a real person. I am glad life is treating her well.
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Rocky
Btw, Tom R is not still married to Barbara.
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So_crates
Thank you, WordWolf, for articulating what I was asking in the Exit Stage Left thread more throughly.
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So_crates
The Scorpion And The Frog
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.”
The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?”
Replies the scorpion: “It’s my nature…”
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