I remember that there were "blab sessions" at least once every meeting. It was supposed to get the new students to release a bit....you remember. receive, retain, release?
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
do new "members" ever get any of the PFAL books ? Do grads ever give newbies an illustrious history lesson of the founder & first prez?
sorry to ask such very simple questions...guess I'm getting more curious in my old age - of how a cult goes to phase 2 - passing the baton to the next leader and keeping the "troops" in line, and how to keep folks excited about "the word"...just want to get a better idea of what was taught & practiced after I left.
...like Chockfull sharing about the whitewashing and damage control...this makes me think - at least with WAP2, it was geared more toward being in control of the morale...again since I only know PFAL and such I can't compare the two - but from what I remember PFAL and even the Advanced Class were mainly for puffing you up with special knowledge that no other group had...whereas what I gather so far - it sounds like WAP2 was more of a corrective measure...but I dunno...I'm just grabbing at straws here and would appreciate anything else folks would like to share.
Also, Chockfull, if someone didn't complete the WAP class(es), did that become the leader's fault (because the leader didn't "undershepherd" well enough?
I recall pressure to get people signed up to run classes, more pressure to keep people who'd started the class, and then of course if the people didn't stick around... I recall LCM shrieking about poor undershepherding - that was when PFAL was being run. I was gone before WAP was introduced.
Also, Chockfull, if someone didn't complete the WAP class(es), did that become the leader's fault (because the leader didn't "undershepherd" well enough?
I recall pressure to get people signed up to run classes, more pressure to keep people who'd started the class, and then of course if the people didn't stick around... I recall LCM shrieking about poor undershepherding - that was when PFAL was being run. I was gone before WAP was introduced.
Twinky, I also remember all the pressure put on us to run classes; I got so sick of it!! Finally, I sort of withdrew, and just lived my life. I didn't understand why we were under the gun to run classes; now I think it was because TWI was motivated so motivated by money. The more classes run, the more grads, thus more money for TWI. I always felt that TWI was more concerned about money, than moving The Word. No wonder so many people left right after taking the class; I wish I had.
Twinky, I also remember all the pressure put on us to run classes; I got so sick of it!! Finally, I sort of withdrew, and just lived my life. I didn't understand why we were under the gun to run classes; now I think it was because TWI was motivated so motivated by money. The more classes run, the more grads, thus more money for TWI. I always felt that TWI was more concerned about money, than moving The Word. No wonder so many people left right after taking the class; I wish I had.
Just my opinion here.
Although The Way made money on every class they ran, it was short term. The real goal was to build a following of people who would give them 10, 15, 20% of every paycheck, time after time after time. They knew the drop-out rate for class grads would be incredibly high. That's why the push to recruit was so aggressive. From a sales and marketing point of view, it's simple math. It was never about "bringing people to the Lord" or however else you choose to phrase it. We were unpaid sales reps, working for 0% commission.
Although The Way made money on every class they ran, it was short term. The real goal was to build a following of people who would give them 10, 15, 20% of every paycheck, time after time after time. They knew the drop-out rate for class grads would be incredibly high. That's why the push to recruit was so aggressive. From a sales and marketing point of view, it's simple math. It was never about "bringing people to the Lord" or however else you choose to phrase it. We were unpaid sales reps, working for 0% commission.
Way, yes!! You are so right! TWI did want to build a following of people willing to give them them money every month from their paycheck. How could I have forgotten that??!! Thanks for your post.
I’m just curious if anyone here has taken both PFAL and WAP and wouldn’t mind sharing a brief (or long - I don’t care) analysis of what differences and similarities there are between the two.
I left in ‘86 so all I know about is PFAL.
....as an aside - I’m also curious if LCM plagiarized from any sources other than what wierwille used.
This thread has got right off topic, so I'm just posting the starter post to remind people what the thread's about.
It would be interesting to know what differences there are - and what still remain.
(SNIP)...From the perspective of taking PFAL, running PFAL, taking WAP, running WAP, teaching WAP, taking WAP 2, running WAP 2...(SNIP)
By the time you were running WAP classes – what place did the PFAL class hold for newcomers?
if we could jump back in time – and I was a newcomer at your fellowship (let’s say I’ve been attending your fellowship for about a month) – and I’m excited about what you’ve shared at fellowships and keep asking you if there’s a way I could know all that neat stuff like you – what would you tell me? What would be the next step for me getting more involved with The Way International?
Would I have to take PFAL first? Or does WAP now serve the same purpose as what PFAL did?
= = = = = =
In WAP does LCM make any references to PFAL or wierwille?
Does WAP cover the same topics as PFAL- like “the word of God is the will of God”, how we got the Bible, the Bible interprets itself, battle of the senses, the law of believing, speaking in tongues, etc.?
In your opinion, does WAP come across as being an obvious derivative of PFAL or as something inspired by PFAL but updated for a new generation?
my questions are really open to anyone - I just quoted Chockfull's part about running / teaching WAP classes, so I could focus a line of specific questions - just trying to get an idea of what was the "official authorized" route for newcomers.
Also, Chockfull, if someone didn't complete the WAP class(es), did that become the leader's fault (because the leader didn't "undershepherd" well enough?
I recall pressure to get people signed up to run classes, more pressure to keep people who'd started the class, and then of course if the people didn't stick around... I recall LCM shrieking about poor undershepherding - that was when PFAL was being run. I was gone before WAP was introduced.
well the first step was now to require all the PLAF grads to take WAP so they were the first classes. then their kids. if you string that out long enough eventually maybe a new person or two would show up. I recall the manifestation part in WAP was in a private group not in a bedlam in front of class.
as to your question, in the Way, $h1t always flowed downhill. so it could be the leader's fault, or it could be the sheeple's fault for not 'undershepherding' well enough. or the weak link in the chain somewhere, wherever a sycophant wanted to target.
as far as pressure to run classes there was always that, and varying standards for what you needed.
Although The Way made money on every class they ran, it was short term. The real goal was to build a following of people who would give them 10, 15, 20% of every paycheck, time after time after time. They knew the drop-out rate for class grads would be incredibly high. That's why the push to recruit was so aggressive. From a sales and marketing point of view, it's simple math. It was never about "bringing people to the Lord" or however else you choose to phrase it. We were unpaid sales reps, working for 0% commission.
waysider,
now you know the Way would never re$ort to looking at thing$ from a financial per$pective. And Ro$alie would never per$onally do $omething like per$onally call a large contributor or anything like that.
kind of more like in addition to being a $ale$ rep, you paid for the privilege to attend by being on the cla$$ crew.... can you $ay $$$$$lave labor?
money for nothing and being $creamed at by d1cks for free.
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
do new "members" ever get any of the PFAL books ? Do grads ever give newbies an illustrious history lesson of the founder & first prez?
sorry to ask such very simple questions...guess I'm getting more curious in my old age - of how a cult goes to phase 2 - passing the baton to the next leader and keeping the "troops" in line, and how to keep folks excited about "the word"...just want to get a better idea of what was taught & practiced after I left.
...like Chockfull sharing about the whitewashing and damage control...this makes me think - at least with WAP2, it was geared more toward being in control of the morale...again since I only know PFAL and such I can't compare the two - but from what I remember PFAL and even the Advanced Class were mainly for puffing you up with special knowledge that no other group had...whereas what I gather so far - it sounds like WAP2 was more of a corrective measure...but I dunno...I'm just grabbing at straws here and would appreciate anything else folks would like to share.
once again thanks for your input
oh dear lord baby jesus on a pogo stick....
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
same ole bs. love bombing, pressure grads to come up with relatives friends work associates, same ole witnessing tactics dating etc.
do they take WAP first?
no WAP first, WAP was replaced by first remove athlete of the dooface harem name and make corpse teach from same syllabus, then keep syllabus and have more yes-men teach more segments so if one left they could replace them easier. They did that with INT and ADV classes too. This is WAP 2. Then the whole cycle starts over again with "new grads" being all the same old grads but a new class. Just like Scientology where they would redo a section of LRH teachings and make everyone re-buy.
passing baton indicates a race. this is more like wizard of oz where ugly troll behind mask dictates things. troops are kept in line by Nazi Germany like tactics - threat of shunning, but lying about it. defame those that speak up,
excited about 'the word' ?????????
yes the scientology-like excitement just oozes out of every pore of this group. I mean you see the video ridiculed on the Soup, right? that was exciting.
I remember that there were "blab sessions" at least once every meeting. It was supposed to get the new students to release a bit....you remember. receive, retain, release?
yes I do remember this. it makes me release a little vomit in my own mouth.
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
same ole bs. love bombing, pressure grads to come up with relatives friends work associates, same ole witnessing tactics dating etc.
do they take WAP first?
no WAP first, WAP was replaced by first remove athlete of the dooface harem name and make corpse teach from same syllabus, then keep syllabus and have more yes-men teach more segments so if one left they could replace them easier. They did that with INT and ADV classes too. This is WAP 2. Then the whole cycle starts over again with "new grads" being all the same old grads but a new class. Just like Scientology where they would redo a section of LRH teachings and make everyone re-buy.
passing baton indicates a race. this is more like wizard of oz where ugly troll behind mask dictates things. troops are kept in line by Nazi Germany like tactics - threat of shunning, but lying about it. defame those that speak up,
excited about 'the word' ?????????
yes the scientology-like excitement just oozes out of every pore of this group. I mean you see the video ridiculed on the Soup, right? that was exciting.
yaaaaahhhhh !!!! that's the ticket ! thanks, Chockfull - with this post and your others - and what folks have said so far - this is great !
besides satisfying my curiosity and plotting the virulent evolution of wierwille's stuff - another reason I started this thread was so that I could better relate to those still in TWI...I know one of the purposes of Grease Spot is to tell the other side of the story - - I'm just wanting to know how to make my personal "saga" relevant to TWI folks.
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
same ole bs. love bombing, pressure grads to come up with relatives friends work associates, same ole witnessing tactics dating etc.
do they take WAP first?
no WAP first, WAP was replaced by first remove athlete of the dooface harem name and make corpse teach from same syllabus, then keep syllabus and have more yes-men teach more segments so if one left they could replace them easier. They did that with INT and ADV classes too. This is WAP 2. Then the whole cycle starts over again with "new grads" being all the same old grads but a new class. Just like Scientology where they would redo a section of LRH teachings and make everyone re-buy.
passing baton indicates a race. this is more like wizard of oz where ugly troll behind mask dictates things. troops are kept in line by Nazi Germany like tactics - threat of shunning, but lying about it. defame those that speak up,
excited about 'the word' ?????????
yes the scientology-like excitement just oozes out of every pore of this group. I mean you see the video ridiculed on the Soup, right? that was exciting.
More yes-men teach segments: Two Advantages
As you noted, if one exits twi......only certain sections need to be redone.
But the bigger advantage............since rozilla is not adept at teaching (that's an understatement!) having several people teach the fnc/int/adv classes, it removes the "adulation factor to THE TEACHER" diffusing its effect. Whereas, now......everyone knows that the one who orders the policies and mandates, i.e. the administrative side, is where the adulation spotlight and power levers reside.
NO LONGER does the cult need a charismatic leader at the helm...........although, it's good to have him nearby in the grave where he surpassed sainthood and is lauded as mog-status with all the gift ministries, including sexual predation and a plagiarist drunk.
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chockfull
Hmmmmmmmmm......
From the perspective of taking PFAL, running PFAL, taking WAP, running WAP, teaching WAP, taking WAP 2, running WAP 2, my feedback is......
Mostly different layers of whitewash, same snowstorm.
LCM was all about Michaelangelo's work on Creation - with the snake in female form. Methinks personification.
WAP 2 is about damage control. More teachers, more replaceable segments, same BS. Removed sections about homophobia. Same basic syllabus as WAP.
Stepford Wives intros to sessions. This also reinforces idea of replaceability for dissenters.
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krys
I remember that there were "blab sessions" at least once every meeting. It was supposed to get the new students to release a bit....you remember. receive, retain, release?
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T-Bone
anks for sharing Chockfull and Krys
interesting...I did not know there was a WAP2
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
do new "members" ever get any of the PFAL books ? Do grads ever give newbies an illustrious history lesson of the founder & first prez?
sorry to ask such very simple questions...guess I'm getting more curious in my old age - of how a cult goes to phase 2 - passing the baton to the next leader and keeping the "troops" in line, and how to keep folks excited about "the word"...just want to get a better idea of what was taught & practiced after I left.
...like Chockfull sharing about the whitewashing and damage control...this makes me think - at least with WAP2, it was geared more toward being in control of the morale...again since I only know PFAL and such I can't compare the two - but from what I remember PFAL and even the Advanced Class were mainly for puffing you up with special knowledge that no other group had...whereas what I gather so far - it sounds like WAP2 was more of a corrective measure...but I dunno...I'm just grabbing at straws here and would appreciate anything else folks would like to share.
once again thanks for your input
Edited by T-Bonestream of conscienciousness
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Twinky
Also, Chockfull, if someone didn't complete the WAP class(es), did that become the leader's fault (because the leader didn't "undershepherd" well enough?
I recall pressure to get people signed up to run classes, more pressure to keep people who'd started the class, and then of course if the people didn't stick around... I recall LCM shrieking about poor undershepherding - that was when PFAL was being run. I was gone before WAP was introduced.
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Bolshevik
Newbies. AKA children.
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waysider
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, I also remember all the pressure put on us to run classes; I got so sick of it!! Finally, I sort of withdrew, and just lived my life. I didn't understand why we were under the gun to run classes; now I think it was because TWI was motivated so motivated by money. The more classes run, the more grads, thus more money for TWI. I always felt that TWI was more concerned about money, than moving The Word. No wonder so many people left right after taking the class; I wish I had.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I wonder how many of these kids stayed around after finishing the class; I bet a lot of them left before they became adults.
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waysider
Just my opinion here.
Although The Way made money on every class they ran, it was short term. The real goal was to build a following of people who would give them 10, 15, 20% of every paycheck, time after time after time. They knew the drop-out rate for class grads would be incredibly high. That's why the push to recruit was so aggressive. From a sales and marketing point of view, it's simple math. It was never about "bringing people to the Lord" or however else you choose to phrase it. We were unpaid sales reps, working for 0% commission.
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Bolshevik
I left.
But because TWI uses The Bible, it can employ the Christians to do their dirty work. Eph 6:1 folks. Cute way to increase your numbers.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, yes!! You are so right! TWI did want to build a following of people willing to give them them money every month from their paycheck. How could I have forgotten that??!! Thanks for your post.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Bol, for sure!!
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Twinky
This thread has got right off topic, so I'm just posting the starter post to remind people what the thread's about.
It would be interesting to know what differences there are - and what still remain.
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Bolshevik
I don't remember VPW yelling in his class.
LCM would begin to and catch himself once he got heated. Everyone would laugh and nod.
So I would say the tone felt different.
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T-Bone
By the time you were running WAP classes – what place did the PFAL class hold for newcomers?
if we could jump back in time – and I was a newcomer at your fellowship (let’s say I’ve been attending your fellowship for about a month) – and I’m excited about what you’ve shared at fellowships and keep asking you if there’s a way I could know all that neat stuff like you – what would you tell me? What would be the next step for me getting more involved with The Way International?
Would I have to take PFAL first? Or does WAP now serve the same purpose as what PFAL did?
= = = = = =
In WAP does LCM make any references to PFAL or wierwille?
Does WAP cover the same topics as PFAL- like “the word of God is the will of God”, how we got the Bible, the Bible interprets itself, battle of the senses, the law of believing, speaking in tongues, etc.?
In your opinion, does WAP come across as being an obvious derivative of PFAL or as something inspired by PFAL but updated for a new generation?
my questions are really open to anyone - I just quoted Chockfull's part about running / teaching WAP classes, so I could focus a line of specific questions - just trying to get an idea of what was the "official authorized" route for newcomers.
Edited by T-Bonefine tuning
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skyrider
PFAL and WAP.....what's the difference?
I seriously doubt that the narcissist wierwille ever gave it a thought that "his class" would go on a back burner. EVER.
Edited by skyridertypos
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Bolshevik
I seem to remember WAP having more prerequisites than PFAL. A minimum number of fellowships to attend and maybe SIT prior to the class?
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chockfull
well the first step was now to require all the PLAF grads to take WAP so they were the first classes. then their kids. if you string that out long enough eventually maybe a new person or two would show up. I recall the manifestation part in WAP was in a private group not in a bedlam in front of class.
as to your question, in the Way, $h1t always flowed downhill. so it could be the leader's fault, or it could be the sheeple's fault for not 'undershepherding' well enough. or the weak link in the chain somewhere, wherever a sycophant wanted to target.
as far as pressure to run classes there was always that, and varying standards for what you needed.
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chockfull
waysider,
now you know the Way would never re$ort to looking at thing$ from a financial per$pective. And Ro$alie would never per$onally do $omething like per$onally call a large contributor or anything like that.
kind of more like in addition to being a $ale$ rep, you paid for the privilege to attend by being on the cla$$ crew.... can you $ay $$$$$lave labor?
money for nothing and being $creamed at by d1cks for free.
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chockfull
oh dear lord baby jesus on a pogo stick....
so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first?
same ole bs. love bombing, pressure grads to come up with relatives friends work associates, same ole witnessing tactics dating etc.
do they take WAP first?
no WAP first, WAP was replaced by first remove athlete of the dooface harem name and make corpse teach from same syllabus, then keep syllabus and have more yes-men teach more segments so if one left they could replace them easier. They did that with INT and ADV classes too. This is WAP 2. Then the whole cycle starts over again with "new grads" being all the same old grads but a new class. Just like Scientology where they would redo a section of LRH teachings and make everyone re-buy.
passing baton indicates a race. this is more like wizard of oz where ugly troll behind mask dictates things. troops are kept in line by Nazi Germany like tactics - threat of shunning, but lying about it. defame those that speak up,
excited about 'the word' ?????????
yes the scientology-like excitement just oozes out of every pore of this group. I mean you see the video ridiculed on the Soup, right? that was exciting.
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chockfull
yes I do remember this. it makes me release a little vomit in my own mouth.
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T-Bone
yaaaaahhhhh !!!! that's the ticket ! thanks, Chockfull - with this post and your others - and what folks have said so far - this is great !
besides satisfying my curiosity and plotting the virulent evolution of wierwille's stuff - another reason I started this thread was so that I could better relate to those still in TWI...I know one of the purposes of Grease Spot is to tell the other side of the story - - I'm just wanting to know how to make my personal "saga"
relevant to TWI folks.
Edited by T-Boneoh the drama of the "saga"
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skyrider
More yes-men teach segments: Two Advantages
NO LONGER does the cult need a charismatic leader at the helm...........although, it's good to have him nearby in the grave where he surpassed sainthood and is lauded as mog-status with all the gift ministries, including sexual predation and a plagiarist drunk.
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Twinky
I think, after all this time, I really don't care any more. What does WAP stand for anyway - Waste of Abundance and Personality?
Find a decent church, get to know the people there, and see what they DO, not just what they say.
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