You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.
You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.
Au contraire. Why would it make sense that God would inspire a "God-breathed work" in PFAL, but with the guy most trying to train up what he did to produce it God would ignore that guy and not inspire him? Why? Does God respect persons? Also, the Loy produced a book himself on Acts. Based upon VP's teachings on the 8 great statements in the book of Acts. Was that "God-breathed"? Why or why not? Now that piece is "God-breathed"? Or not because he plagiarized it from VP and it wasn't in the "original"?
You see when God is at work all the little things fall in line and make sense. When delusions are at work, there are all these pesky questions left over.
You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.
No, you need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have about my judgement. After those are cleared up you'll be in a better position to see your line of logic.
No, you need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have about my judgement. After those are cleared up you'll be in a better position to see your line of logic.
I can buy that.
I can make mistakes in how I take in what you write. Please do clear up any I may manifest to you.
Actually, when I said that to chockful an hour ago, I was a bit sloppy in my addressing.
Some of you HAVE allowed me to clear up several minor misconceptions lately. I can’t remember who, and I’m sorry for that.
So, So_crates, I may owe you the same apology that I may owe chockfull.
I’m slowly getting to know who is who and who said what, but it’s complicated.
Au contraire. Why would it make sense that God would inspire a "God-breathed work" in PFAL, but with the guy most trying to train up what he did to produce itGod would ignore that guy and not inspire him? Why? Does God respect persons?
I can't understand the highlighted text. Could you expand it a little?
Also, the Loy produced a book himself on Acts. Based upon VP's teachings on the 8 great statements in the book of Acts. Was that "God-breathed"? Why or why not?
Loy book NOT God-breathed. That job was given to VPW, and it was completed. We can use written PFAL to "rule" on the Loy book's merits or lack thereof.
There are some writings of VPW that are NOT God-breathed.
He states this on page 83 of the PFAL book, and in the film class. I have not gotten to the point of knowing exactly which ones. That's complicated, and I just don't know ... yet. What I have committed to is core "writings that came with the class" to paraphrase VPW in his last teaching.
Now that piece is "God-breathed"? Or not because he plagiarized it from VP and it wasn't in the "original"?
You see when God is at work all the little things fall in line and make sense. When delusions are at work, there are all these pesky questions left over.
During times of good change, all sorts of confusions can creep in. I suggest some new methods for dealing with pesky problems. Sometimes pesky problems prevail for those who focus on them too much. Such focus would be the opposite imbalance of whitewashing, wouldn't it?
Let's pretend your right. Once again we arrive at that pesky problem: How do we know which writings are God-breathe and which are not?
I have a paper folder file on this topic that I add scraps of paper to whenever I have an idea on it or see some passage that sheds light.
This folder was started about 15 years ago. If you have anything to add, I'm open to suggestions. This is a relatively unworked subject on my desk so far.
You're right. It is a pesky problem. I used to intensely study, back in the 70s, this exact same problem as it came up in the first century. There were a lot of fights for 400 years as to which books should be or not be included in the Canon. My paper folder on this topic is 2 and 1/2 inches thick.
I have a paper folder file on this topic that I add scraps of paper to whenever I have an idea on it or see some passage that sheds light.
This folder was started about 15 years ago. If you have anything to add, I'm open to suggestions. This is a relatively unworked subject on my desk so far.
You're right. It is a pesky problem. I used to intensely study, back in the 70s, this exact same problem as it came up in the first century. There were a lot of fights for 400 years as to which books should be or not be included in the Canon. My paper folder on this topic is 2 and 1/2 inches thick.
So then you admit there's no way of knowing whether PLAF is God-breathe or not.
Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you. You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth. You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place.
37The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form.38You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent.39You pore over PFAL because you think you have eternal life in it, yet it's the scriptures that testify about Me.40And you are not willing to come to Me through the scriptures, so that you may have life.
I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding. I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily? Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible? They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features. They're free to download. There are other programs available. You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions. In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.
So then you admit there's no way of knowing whether PLAF is God-breathe or not.
No. I'm being honest with you in saying I don't know it all.
I'm settled on some of the books and magazine articles. There are some booklets I'm not sure of. Also, the the Preface to ADAN is by Karen Martin. Don't fully know about that either. Interestingly, there is a huge quote of Kenyon in OMSW.
I mentioned that I was very interested in the similar subject when it occurred in the early centuries. I am very interested in how all this works. I study it a lot. I make mistakes and there are gaps in my knowledge.
... I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding. I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily? Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible? They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features. They're free to download. There are other programs available. You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions. In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.
Twinky,
Thank you for your concern and the heart I felt in your post.
I spent many years studying my KJV and many other versions. My Cambridge wide margin is stuffed with happy notes. I go to it at times for extended readings and context, but not as much as my earlier years. I still get much exposure to verses and passages as they appear in PFAL.
The love of God comes through in those pages to me. I'm not worried about missing needed info that only my KJV or other versions have. We ALL miss many portions of our Bibles, and we all must rely on God that we find portions of His Word we NEED the most in these remaining years.
There's no way my simply coming back to Bible versions will cover all that is needed. There's just too much info there that needs too much filtering. A lifetime can't cover it all.
Written PFAL is simple and easy to read, and needs not constant textual corrections, and frequent augmentation like Orientalisms and Figures of Speech.
... by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.
When I was a twig leader one teaching I would do was to take about 3 verses and have a tall stack of Bible versions to my side. I’d read each verse in every Bible (using bookmarks) and show how much the agreed on most things. The Bibles in that stack belonged to me and I still have them.
The problem I have with the Bibles is much more in their translations than in the ancient texts. I do think IN PRINCIPLE they are tattered remnants, but I know there is much agreement there also. This is a subtle subject, but the translation issue is not. The opportunities the adversary had over 2000 years to subtly infiltrate academic institutions are immense.
Here we have another extended subject, though. We will have to come back to this sometime.
Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you. You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth. You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place.
Do you believe Mike has any idea WHY he might be thusly committed? I'm not even sure Mike knows.
Ephesians 4:14... Mike, your writing (at GSC) suggests you emulate the pinball. Unless you take the time to emulate the Pinball Wizard, you'll never accomplish your claimed goal.
On 11/11/2017 at 5:00 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:
David, and Sky, thanks for the information. Sky, it never dawned on me, that teaching a "live class" would be so hard for VPW. Gee, wasn't he "The Teacher?" Teachers teach "live classes" for years, and years. Most of the teachers I had were happy (I hope!) When I asked questions. I used to ask a lot of thoughtful(to me anyway) questions in various classes I took. Can you imagine someone asking VPW a question about the Bible?? He might not have been able to answer it; God forbid should he have said "I don't know?" I would have thought that VPW would have known that he wasn't capable of teaching a real class, and not pretended otherwise. Perhaps he realized during the filming of that class in 1977, that many students would see through his facade, and know that he ran a bogus Ministry, if he continued to film a live class.
Why didn't Walter Cummins teach the class instead of VPW? Wierdwillies arrogance would not allow him
You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.
Mike, I know this question isn't directed to me, but I am still going to butt in. There are only three things I "need" to do: I need to pay, my Income Taxes. I need to die. I will let you find-out for yourself, what the third one is.
Wow. This 2017-2019 thread... is virtually word for word on the new late 2022 threads "Wierwille's Doctorate" and "Dr's Last Teaching."
Everybody just says the same thing. I re-read the first 7 pages (of 24) on this thread - nothing new for or from anybody. You could say we're all consistent in what we now think.
Wow. This 2017-2019 thread... is virtually word for word on the new late 2022 threads "Wierwille's Doctorate" and "Dr's Last Teaching."
Everybody just says the same thing. I re-read the first 7 pages (of 24) on this thread - nothing new for or from anybody. You could say we're all consistent in what we now think.
Wow. This 2017-2019 thread... is virtually word for word on the new late 2022 threads "Wierwille's Doctorate" and "Dr's Last Teaching."
Everybody just says the same thing. I re-read the first 7 pages (of 24) on this thread - nothing new for or from anybody. You could say we're all consistent in what we now think.
Twinky, your observation fits in with what I posted to Rocky today on the "Wierwille's doctorate" thread about traffic in recent years reflecting a boredom related traffic decline, due to waning novelty in posting topics.
Nearly everything has been said, as far as I can see, except for new possible inroads to cooperation starting with TWI-4.
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Mike
You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.
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chockfull
Au contraire. Why would it make sense that God would inspire a "God-breathed work" in PFAL, but with the guy most trying to train up what he did to produce it God would ignore that guy and not inspire him? Why? Does God respect persons? Also, the Loy produced a book himself on Acts. Based upon VP's teachings on the 8 great statements in the book of Acts. Was that "God-breathed"? Why or why not? Now that piece is "God-breathed"? Or not because he plagiarized it from VP and it wasn't in the "original"?
You see when God is at work all the little things fall in line and make sense. When delusions are at work, there are all these pesky questions left over.
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So_crates
No, you need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have about my judgement. After those are cleared up you'll be in a better position to see your line of logic.
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Mike
I can buy that.
I can make mistakes in how I take in what you write. Please do clear up any I may manifest to you.
Actually, when I said that to chockful an hour ago, I was a bit sloppy in my addressing.
Some of you HAVE allowed me to clear up several minor misconceptions lately. I can’t remember who, and I’m sorry for that.
So, So_crates, I may owe you the same apology that I may owe chockfull.
I’m slowly getting to know who is who and who said what, but it’s complicated.
ptions.
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Mike
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So_crates
Let's pretend your right. Once again we arrive at that pesky problem: How do we know which writings are God-breathe and which are not?
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Mike
I have a paper folder file on this topic that I add scraps of paper to whenever I have an idea on it or see some passage that sheds light.
This folder was started about 15 years ago. If you have anything to add, I'm open to suggestions. This is a relatively unworked subject on my desk so far.
You're right. It is a pesky problem. I used to intensely study, back in the 70s, this exact same problem as it came up in the first century. There were a lot of fights for 400 years as to which books should be or not be included in the Canon. My paper folder on this topic is 2 and 1/2 inches thick.
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So_crates
So then you admit there's no way of knowing whether PLAF is God-breathe or not.
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Twinky
Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you. You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth. You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place.
or in your case:
37The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form. 38You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent. 39You pore over PFAL because you think you have eternal life in it, yet it's the scriptures that testify about Me. 40And you are not willing to come to Me through the scriptures, so that you may have life.
I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding. I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily? Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible? They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features. They're free to download. There are other programs available. You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions. In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.
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Mike
No. I'm being honest with you in saying I don't know it all.
I'm settled on some of the books and magazine articles. There are some booklets I'm not sure of. Also, the the Preface to ADAN is by Karen Martin. Don't fully know about that either. Interestingly, there is a huge quote of Kenyon in OMSW.
I mentioned that I was very interested in the similar subject when it occurred in the early centuries. I am very interested in how all this works. I study it a lot. I make mistakes and there are gaps in my knowledge.
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Mike
Twinky,
Thank you for your concern and the heart I felt in your post.
I spent many years studying my KJV and many other versions. My Cambridge wide margin is stuffed with happy notes. I go to it at times for extended readings and context, but not as much as my earlier years. I still get much exposure to verses and passages as they appear in PFAL.
The love of God comes through in those pages to me. I'm not worried about missing needed info that only my KJV or other versions have. We ALL miss many portions of our Bibles, and we all must rely on God that we find portions of His Word we NEED the most in these remaining years.
There's no way my simply coming back to Bible versions will cover all that is needed. There's just too much info there that needs too much filtering. A lifetime can't cover it all.
Written PFAL is simple and easy to read, and needs not constant textual corrections, and frequent augmentation like Orientalisms and Figures of Speech.
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Mike
When I was a twig leader one teaching I would do was to take about 3 verses and have a tall stack of Bible versions to my side. I’d read each verse in every Bible (using bookmarks) and show how much the agreed on most things. The Bibles in that stack belonged to me and I still have them.
The problem I have with the Bibles is much more in their translations than in the ancient texts. I do think IN PRINCIPLE they are tattered remnants, but I know there is much agreement there also. This is a subtle subject, but the translation issue is not. The opportunities the adversary had over 2000 years to subtly infiltrate academic institutions are immense.
Here we have another extended subject, though. We will have to come back to this sometime.Link to comment
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Rocky
Do you believe Mike has any idea WHY he might be thusly committed? I'm not even sure Mike knows.
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Rocky
Edited by RockyEphesians 4:14... Mike, your writing (at GSC) suggests you emulate the pinball. Unless you take the time to emulate the Pinball Wizard, you'll never accomplish your claimed goal.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Why didn't Walter Cummins teach the class instead of VPW? Wierdwillies arrogance would not allow him
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Grace Valerie Claire
Thomas, I think you are right; VPW was arrogant as Hell.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, I know this question isn't directed to me, but I am still going to butt in. There are only three things I "need" to do: I need to pay, my Income Taxes. I need to die. I will let you find-out for yourself, what the third one is.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, he probably doesn't know either.
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Twinky
Wow. This 2017-2019 thread... is virtually word for word on the new late 2022 threads "Wierwille's Doctorate" and "Dr's Last Teaching."
Everybody just says the same thing. I re-read the first 7 pages (of 24) on this thread - nothing new for or from anybody. You could say we're all consistent in what we now think.
Edited by TwinkyAdd names of threads.
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Bolshevik
I'm sure there's a name for this phenomenon.
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Mike
Twinky, your observation fits in with what I posted to Rocky today on the "Wierwille's doctorate" thread about traffic in recent years reflecting a boredom related traffic decline, due to waning novelty in posting topics.
Nearly everything has been said, as far as I can see, except for new possible inroads to cooperation starting with TWI-4.
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Bolshevik
Will fine point pens be replaced by some sort of hyperlinks on ebooks?
How do I virtue signal my spirituality without rewriting a whole book in the margins?
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Mike
...by posting on GreaseSpot?
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Bolshevik
Grease is an oil?
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