Perhaps I've been under a mistaken impression. I've always thought that "the orange book" refers to PFAL.
Anyway, it has me wondering. If someone does write the book on Wierwille's legacy, what color will it be? Will Christ be carrying it in his left hand when he returns?
Perhaps I've been under a mistaken impression. I've always thought that "the orange book" refers to PFAL.
Anyway, it has me wondering. If someone does write the book on Wierwille's legacy, what color will it be? Will Christ be carrying it in his left hand when he returns?
Well, the pfal book is given away at classes and other events. When i was around it wasnt really mentioned very much at all. Instead, the collaterals were the books recommended as vital in ones development as a wayfer.
Perhaps I've been under a mistaken impression. I've always thought that "the orange book" refers to PFAL.
Anyway, it has me wondering. If someone does write the book on Wierwille's legacy, what color will it be? Will Christ be carrying it in his left hand when he returns?
Yes - and maybe he’s carrying it over to the burn pile (I Corinthians 3:11-15)
The ecumenical council held in France is known as The Council of Lyon.
I was joking. I thought there was not one in France. The 1st edition of JCNG has a mistake to that effect, and I was making light of it. Or I thought I was. It's been many years since I thought about that error in the printing. It was fixed in the 2nd edition, of course.
Perhaps I've been under a mistaken impression. I've always thought that "the orange book" refers to PFAL.
Yes, I agree......."the orange book" referred to the PFAL BOOK.
But you know, waysider.........that is so '70-ish thinking.
As we moved into the '80s, the collateral books were given and/or sold to the students and grads........BUT "the orange book" was shelved. At least, from what I remember......volumes 1-5 were there to supplement the pfal class, but "the orange book" was not sold/distributed to the masses. Vaguely, I seem to recall that this decision was made to keep grads from lending this book to friends, family and co-workers.......and THEN, they felt like they didn't need to take the pfal class, because they'd read the book.
..............and, yes........"The Word's Way" book was burnt-orange with a vertical brown ban near the binder. This brown ban was on all volumes 1-5.
And.......If I'm wrong about this.......then shoot me. It's been like forever since I thought about this........
Mike, have you ever thought about looking at how..........
...........be honest, Mike - do you still believe the Bible interprets itself? wierwille made such a big deal over that in PFAL - "the Bible is of no private interpretation" remember? Truthfully now - do you still believe the Bible interprets itself? What verse or verses in the Bible support that premise?
love and peace
T-Bone
Thank you for that, T-Bone.
I felt the heart in it, as a real discussion flows, well before the “love and peace” close. I will read it again soon, and work on a response. It’s Christmas Eve here, and there are also other reasons why I can’t do that now.
I did notice a question about Mrs. Wierwille’s book. I found it interesting that so many want me to read that. What most of you don’t realize is that I worked with Miney Shroyer alone in a room making tapes for a little over 2 years. She was a contemporary of both Vic and Dotsie. I heard FAR more from her about ministry history than could ever fit into Mrs. Wierwille’s book.
She was honest in her reports to me. She was troubled by several things in ministry history, and in some directions it was moving then (1976-78). I’ve posted MUCH here on this topic, and repeated many of her stories.
My impression is that most posters here look to Mrs. Wierwille’s book for only ONE reason: to find contradictions in VPW’s recollections of his own history. I COULD CARE LESSabout this issue.
I never expected VPW to be perfect in ANY capacity except what he and his publishing team (grads with pneuma hagion) shipped in print on paper. That is what God supervised and got right.
EVERYTHING else I the ministry was human and flawed in greater and in lesser degrees.
***
Every human poster here, if subject to the same degree of scrutiny VPW gets, would produce on-and-off over a span of decades, an autobiography that was riddled with contradictions and mistakes.
I’ve learned, over a 40 year span, to make my primary focus: that output that is in book and magazine form. All else is secondary.
I’m saving a lot of things for my old age. Which some tell me is not far away.
When that finally happens I plan to catch up on organizing my stamp collection, learning Spanish, and reading Mrs. Wierwille’s book. Add to that Uncle Harry’s book. He was my buddy at HQ. He made up for Vic’s occasional harshness and bulldoggery.
I was the first grad to handle Uncle Harry’s book. He handed it to me in the Tape Duplicating Department one day on 4 cassette tapes and said, “These are the only copies that exist. Don’t screw it up!”He trusted me.
***
Another thing:I’ve learned in this world of instant communication that if I call someone on the phone and they DON’T pick up, there are about one hundred OTHER reasons for the non-pickup that I haven’t thought of.
I usually latch onto the reason with the most emotional impact, and think it’s the only possible reason. Then I remember. Oh yeah! The Hidden Hundred reasons!Mustn’t forget them.
The same courtesy should be afforded me as to why I haven’t read Mrs. Wierwille’s book.
I mentioned that I only had it on Xerox copies. That’s very difficult to read these days. I sometimes have “bad eye” days and really need to blow text up on my computer for reading.There was a flurry of posts last week here that I also STILL have not read. It was on a bad eye day. I spend a lot of time in my Ophthalmologist’s office these years.
How many posters here might have picked up on these 3 reasons for my serious neglect of ministry history? If y’all could remember that Hidden Hundred, it makes life easier for everyone.
I hate it when someone does not pick up their phone, but I hate it more when I spin off into the “wrong reason blues.”
Now, T-Bone, I’m making a copy of your post for my word processor to blow it up, and will a make a paper note to read it after the holiday.
P.S. I think tomorrow is my 15th anniversary here.
The PFAL book is what brought me here. I used to lend it out all the time but it never seemed to come back. Thus, I would seek out replacements.I came here to see how I could get a replacement. Belle kindly offered to gift me her copy but by that time I had rad a bit of this site's contents and decided to decline the offer.
Clearly, you haven't read Charlene Edge's personal history. She worked for several years in Dictor's "research" department. Dictor very much was insistent on his own private interpretation holding sway.
Actually I have approached her in private chat. It was a few years ago. I also haven't heard Chris Skedule's radio story. I knew her in the Groovey Rye Christian days. Time is short. Life is short. I have priorities that are different from most posters here.
I'd like to talk to her more as well as Karen Martin. We did talk some 10 years ago. I call HQ every 5 years and would love to talk to Rosalie. I knew her a tiny bit back then too. I loved her Southern drawl. Got through 10 years or so ago, and had a great half hour talk with Harvey Platig.
I've posted here that many of VPW's other editors and I, by cosmic coincidence, were close friends. I also talked MUCH with Walter about these things for years, up until 1999.
LONG before I ever dreamed that the collaterals were God-breathed I was fascinated with the mechanics of their production and the other people that were involved. I see it as a masterpiece project, God-supervised, with many spirit filled players, and spanning centuries. Vic was just one such player, a key one, but there were many others that were totally needed.
We see remnants of Paul's publishing team in the first verses of both Thessalonian Epistles, and also in the conclusion of II Timothy.
I felt the heart in it, as a real discussion flows, well before the “love and peace” close. I will read it again soon, and work on a response. It’s Christmas Eve here, and there are also other reasons why I can’t do that now....(SNIP)
...Now, T-Bone, I’m making a copy of your post for my word processor to blow it up, and will a make a paper note to read it after the holiday.
P.S. I think tomorrow is my 15th anniversary here.
Merry Christmas to all!
Hey Mike,
Don’t bother looking at my drivel…I’m so sorry for giving you such grief all the time…I have some issues obviously – I guess I don’t know when to throttle it back… and by nature I’m an a$$hole anyway…not making excuses – just giving you reasons.... I’ll work on being a nicer person – I promise. Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Mike, you keep rationalizing what vpw said of himself and ministry history as if it were a trivial matter for a man of God (a clergyman no less, and a supposed Dr.) to lie about things on the grand scale he did. Given his assumed position (not to mention delusions of grandeur) he had the highest responsibility to represent himself, twi, and cite his sources accurately. I have limited experience in the publishing industry where ive helped edit various secular publications (copy/developmental) and reference checking was always extremely important. So how much higher the quality should be devoted to biblically based publications in all aspects?
Yet rationalization is nothing new, in fact vpw, and lcm were grand masters at it. Lcm said he had a consensual affair. But how much higher the responsibility of a supposed man of God to keep and protect himself by the highest standards of conduct in avoiding such evils....yet...upon closer inspection he had a track record as a sexual predator complete with help from a certain procuress in arrainging sexual situations. But when the Allen lawsuit broke i cant tell you how many times i rationalized his behavior away as if it were a small matter compared to all the good he accomplished. And of course i compared his ordeal to David and Bathsheeba. It took years of smelling salts to wake from rhe cult stupor i was in! I had to read the court documents for myself to truly understand the egregious nature of Martindale's affairs...anyway.
Mike, you keep rationalizing what vpw said of himself and ministry history as if it were a trivial matter for a man of God (a clergyman no less, and a supposed Dr.) to lie about things on the grand scale he did. Given his assumed position (not to mention delusions of grandeur) he had the highest responsibility to represent himself, twi, and cite his sources accurately.
In the early days of the ministry the books were small simple booklets for farmers and small town folks, not for scholars.
In those days, one of the ways VPW would cite his sources was to invite them to HQ to speak. He also sold their books in the bookstore. He also mentioned them on SNS tapes.
In 1965 he did a half hour explanation on a SNS tape (transcript available) of his early years and how he got what he got. He admits to NOT having gotten divine dictation, but that he had to do a lot of 5-senses work first to sort it all out.
As the ministry grew, in 1972 he formally published his admission on not originating MOST of his material, and being guided by God MOSTLY in the area of collecting the right stuff and putting it together properly.
If in 1971, I ha d stumbled into a twig with booklets and Blue Books stuffed with citations I’d have balked at embracing them. I could care less about citations when in that state.
As the ministry grew MUCH more we see JCNG having citations in 1976. In the later years many big books had big citations. Last, in 1985 he quotes a HUGE block of Kenyon and cites him.
***
In the arenas of the publishing market and academic institutions plagiarism is a big deal. Not trivial.
Plagiarism upsets the whole applecart there, but in God’s family plagiarism is a non-issue. It’s stupid to think of citing sources when ministering to God’s people.
When the ministry was small it would have been stupid to get all academic and cite sources formally. As the ministry grew SO large in the 70s, some consideration had to be given to the publishing market and academic institutions and it was, as I cited above.
Yet rationalization is nothing new, in fact vpw, and lcm were grand masters at it. Lcm said he had a consensual affair. But how much higher the responsibility of a supposed man of God to keep and protect himself by the highest standards of conduct in avoiding such evils....yet...
Again, I can agree a lot here.
I think of the damage that David did and all the people who were hurt for years over Uriah’s death. I think of the damage Paul did by taking his Nostalgia Vacation directly against God’s will. I think of the damage done in our ministry that so greatly bothers you, and it bothers me too. It bothered me back then that not all was right in this area. I was totally innocent, but I heard rumors at times.
In David’s case, in Paul’s case, and in VPW’s case there’s just nothing left to do but take Jerry Garcia’s advice and SMILE, SMILE, SMILE.
When the Grateful Dead’s manager ran off and stole all the band’s money Jerry said he’s gone, let’s get it on and pick up the pieces. He wrote the song “He’s Gone” to commemorate this sad event. It makes light of the hurt, and in doing so becomes a near joyous sounding song. It’s funny and when I hear it I smile, smile, smile.
I see the damage David did to Uriah’s relatives and can hardly imagine how they forgive him. Probably most did not. So sorry.
Paul could have done SO MUCH more if he hadn’t gone to Jerusalem.
VPW said and wrote he wished he were the man he knew to be. I wish he were too.
In spite of all this sadness, there is joy in picking up the pieces and moving on. The one thing that went totally right, God's Word was put into book and magazine form and in our native tongue can be joyous to us again as we come back to PFAL.
I've mentioned a SNS tape from 1965 a few times here, and it occurred to me it is spot on with the thread's topic. This is how VPW cited his sources in 1965:
Excerpt from SNS Tape #214 Selling Plurality: Acts 4:34
(sometimes called "Light Began to Dawn")
I remember the time when we began working this Word of God, and light began to dawn on it. That, as we got more and more light, we got less and less people. Because the background of this ministry has a great deal more in it than most of you people know today who have just come into this ministry in the last five to ten years. Because you can come into a beautiful auditorium like this--and by the way, we laid a new sidewalk for ya' this week. Did you notice it? Now it can snow 'cause you can all get in with dry feet and clean feet and so forth.
Well, Doc--he formed it up good and Bob and he poured it and Rueben helped and a couple ladies to help and, boy, everybody worked--to get 'er done. But, how'd I get on sidewalks, what were we talking about? Okay, what were we talkin' about, Thelma? Oh, yes--you see all of this and you walk into a comfortable building that's air conditioned in summer and heated occasionally in winter, and all of these other wonderful things we have here, and you say, "Boy, isn't this something?"
But, in order to make available what's here tonight, there's some of us who have had to stand through thick and thin; through a lot of talk, a lot of persecution, a lot of bickering and a lot of laughing. And at times we have had to take a stand when even our best friends moved away. I remember the day when there were no more than two or three people would come to a Bible study on Wednesday or Thursday night in the week. And I suppose today, if we only had two or three people, we--we'd think the world came to an end. But I remember those days, and here in the auditorium again tonight--I don't know if you people knew I was gonna teach on this, that's why you all came, huh?
But here sit the Kupps from Convoy, Ohio, the Permins from Ft. Wayne, Indiana, the Ira Joneses from Van Wert, Ohio; three couples who have stuck with us down through the years. And boy, this is something. I don't know if you people realize how it blesses my heart on a Sunday night or any night of the week, when I'm teaching or something is open here at the headquarters to help everybody--and you see people like the Joneses, the Permins and the Kupps. They drive in here every Sunday night from Convoy, from Ft.Wayne, from Van Wert--almost every Sunday. Once in a while Eldo has to take an evening off to go fishin' and ah, Herman has to do something, Jones have to take a little trip out to fish. In the Jones family, Mrs. Jones fishes, Mr. Jones just drives the car. Ah, in the Kupp family it's the opposite, Eldo drives the car, he does the fishin' and Grace just rides along.
So, I could tell ya' lots about a lot of these people--but it's all good--it's all good. Ah, Eldo just brought me a hunting knife tonight, I lost the one he gave me last year, so he brought me a new one tonight. Ah is it sharp? It--aha! Yeah--he said he got me a wet stone it was--it oughta be sharp 'cause he-he sharpens knives over there in Convoy--among other things. He-he's worked at ah, you work at Goodyear didn't you--no, not ah--Harvester. I get St. Mary's and Fort Wayne mixed, but he-he's worked at Harvester for how many years? Thirty-six years, and when he started working there--what'd they used to pay an hour down there--when you started? Fifty-two cents an hour, and he's been there thirty-six years and ah, has a wonderful job. And I think they like him but they're gonna retire him some of these times, and then he--of course he'll be able to ah, come to The Way more often than he's even doin' now.
But people like the Kupps and the Permins and the Joneses, when I teach here on Sunday night, many times the things that I teach, they may have heard a dozen times. They may have been in on the first services when some of this stuff began to brew within my soul and I used to teach this thing in Van Wert. And as this ministry began to grow, the knowledge of God's Word began to grow in my heart, I shared it with people. And most of the people that I've shared it with, we still have wonderful friends, they have a good feeling towards you; they're thankful that they knew you and they're thankful for what's going on. But to stand with the ministry, except to be thankful--that's better than havin' stand the other way, for which I'm grateful, they--they don't do anything concrete for the ministry, like these people do. Occasionally they come, but not systematically.
And as I look back over the years, to think how this ministry really started, it began at a place that's almost impossible for people to realize. Because when they look at the ministry, or they look at my life, here in the local community and every other place, they simply say, "Well, why didn't he stay where he was?" "Why didn't he stay in the denomination?" "Why didn't he move it?" "Can't a man work there?" There's a lot of answers and a lot of things to be discussed in that category. But it began because of the hunger in my heart for a knowledge of God's Word--that's where it began. I had read commentaries upon commentaries, I had read books upon books, and yet, I could not understand the Word--I couldn't put the Bible together. There were things that did not fit, and what one person said about a certain verse of scripture, another equally intelligent person contradicted what that person said.
And when I went into the ministry in Nineteen Hundred and Forty One (1941), in Payne Ohio--and perhaps the finest people that we still have left from Payne, Ohio are Mr. and Mrs. Cleon White, who come here occasionally from Van Wert. But Cleon White was the man who met us at the time when we first went to Payne, Ohio. And we took that little church there and, it was in Nineteen Hundred and Forty One that we started out there. But by Nineteen Hundred and Forty Two, I realized that the things that I had learned in the seminaries were wonderful; I enjoyed the--the--the mental gymnastics of the theological seminaries; I enjoyed the keenness of the Theologians; I enjoyed all of these things. But, what I learned there wasn't good in practice--it did not work with the people who had a need. For those people who came to church every Sunday and who bought the bricks in that place, and who wouldn't go away if the Devil himself preached there, they still hold on to the church, they came every Sunday anyway. I knew--I-I saw this the first year. They'd come no matter what you taught in that place, they'd come because they got their money in the bricks or in the boards or in the sidewalks and therefore they hold on to it no matter what's taught. But, the first year in my ministry there, I found out that when there was real need, not among that group, but among the others who occasionally came to the church--or some who never "disgraced the place" as they called it, with their presence--I couldn't help 'em. And this began to bother me.
Why was it that a man could go through four years of college and about five years of seminary, at that time; have a bachelors of arts, a bachelor of divinity, a masters of theology and all of my work finished for a PHD with the exception of about seven credits--being out there in the ministry and not being able to get the job done? I saw my farmers out there farm, they got the corn crop, they got the wheat, they got the oats, they got the corn, but inside of the church, I couldn't see any results. Oh, it was nice to have the chicken dinners and the little family affairs you go to, you know, and the women's guild that--men's brotherhood, all of that, but no real results. And I got sort of sick in my heart, and I began praying that God would show me how this Word was put together--because all I did was what the average person still does; he just reads a verse of scripture and then reads a commentary on it and preaches what the commentary says. Or he gets an idea of what it means but never able to fit the scripture from Genesis to Revelation. And I had read so many books and saw so much contradiction that it was impossible for me to be able to teach the Word.
I remember one meeting of the Evangelical and Reformed ministers in the early days of my ministry. This is about six--seven months after I was in the ministry. I was asked to speak to this group, meeting up North. And I spoke to them what I believed was the truth of God's Word, and that is that "The least a Christian could do was to tithe." And being a young minister in the church, those ministers almost laughed me out of the meeting. They said, "Well, Wierwille, are you that stupid that you think that we, as Christian ministers, should still tithe?" And I said, "Yes, don't you?" And they said, "No, we don't tithe." One minister in that whole group tithed--and Anna Shwere you'd know who it was if I named him. He was in that meeting--only one, and he said--he said, "Well, I've tithed ever since I've been a Christian." But all the rest of 'em said, "No, we don't give our tithes." And that shook me, it hurt me, because I thought, certainly the ministers, if they were going to head up the congregation would do as much or more than they would ask their people to do. That was shock number one, and it was a dandy--it didn't leave me--it left me numb and never got me back to my senses for about four weeks, I just couldn't imagine.
And so, all of this stuff began to build. And so finally, as I kept praying, I just said to the Father, I said "Father, teach me the Word--teach me the Word." And one night, something happened, which to me is the greatest thing I don't--I see only one experience that perhaps is greater than this in the Bible, and that's the Apostle Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Outside of that, I see nothing in the Word that equals how God revealed Himself to me and talked to me and told me as plain as day: "That if I would study the Word, He would teach me the Word like He had not been able to teach it to anybody since the first generation." And of course at that time I thought, "Now that's a dandy!" "Boy, if I learned this Word of God, everybody'll listen to me, the whole church will be blessed. My denomination will grow by leaps and bounds because we'll have the Word of God."
And I thought that was terrific! But during the process of that revelation--and I can't tell it all to you because we're already closing off; but during the process of it, I said: "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me?" Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it and I couldn't understand it--couldn't get it to fit. It happened to be bright sunshine like today--like it's been today and yesterday--what we people refer to, I guess as "Indian Summer"--beautiful day. And the sun was shining brightly; it was in the Fall of the year--gorgeous! And there wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, Well, if--if it'll just snow--right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you." But, you see I'd never had much experience with God talking to me, and this business of He saying to me, just as audibly as I'm speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me.
I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before, you know. Ah, my ears were perhaps clogged up, since that time I've heard a lot of things--from Him. But, then I said, "Lord, if this is really true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes--must not have been over three seconds, and I was sitting in front of the window looking East, the sun was--ah, West. The sun was in the West and there wasn't a cloud in the sky 'cause I could see the whole area. I closed my eyes when God said to me that He would teach me the Word if I'd teach it. And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes and it was pitch--almost pitch black outside and the snow was falling so thick, I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office and I cried like a baby, because I guess it was about my time to cry, because I'd grown up but didn't know the Word.
And from that day on and He'd promised to teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart, from time to time--all along, to learn this Word. One of the reasons there are sections of the Word perhaps that I--I don't know, because I do too much cement pouring and a few other items that have to be done and that have to be taken care of. But I am absolutely confident that there is no portion of God's Word that God would not teach me and unfold to me if I studied the Word to show myself approved unto Him by rightly dividing it.
And that began the ministry that has cost me, sense-knowledge, more than anybody will ever realize--except those of us who've gone through it. It gives ya' a whole set of new friends. It caused people, heads of my denomination, through various times when I appeared teaching, like in India, even to write letters against me that I was not a member of the denomination at all--and I'd been born in the lousy place. Isn't that something? And I have them on file--have them in my files, you ought to see 'em, I got a sheet this big.
These are prices you pay. Then you say, well, why don't I reciprocate? Because, people, you can't fight and work the Word too. You can't be fighting all the time and trying to defend yourself against the unbelievers, because the unbelievers are many more than the believers. And we've got only one job to do, as far as my life is concerned, and that is to teach the Word. Whether anybody believes it or not, that's not my responsibility. But to teach it is my responsibility, because He said He'd teach me the Word if I would do one thing--teach it.
Now in order to teach it, I have to study the Word; and when I study it, He shows it to me, then I can teach it. I think a lot of you people know these Bible students that are in here tonight, and we have among our people gathered here tonight, like almost every Sunday night, some of the finest Bible students in the world today. We have Bible students in here to whom no theologian in the entire world can hold a candle when it comes to the rightly dividing and the understanding of God's Word. I think every person in here knows that they can work the Word and they do work it. They get wonderful light and they contribute a great deal to The Way ministry and the light that's taught out of The Way ministry. But when these people bring their light on the Word to me and I have the opportunity to hear it--it doesn't take me but one reading or one hearing and I can, usually, without working it too far, I can pick out the error or pick the good that they bring and fit it right in.
But this is what God raised me to and when He gave me that revelation, and that was a real phenomena or phenomenon. From that day on--this was in Payne, Ohio where this happened, light began to dawn. But you can't learn the whole Word in one night. Therefore, you study the Word--you study it. I suppose I read Genesis chapter one through eleven a thousand times. I don't know how many times you've read it, but I imagine a thousand times is a low number that I have read Genesis, chapter one through eleven. Because I was taught that Genesis one through eleven had at least four or five different authors--you know, the J-P-D documents, this kind of stuff. I'd been taught all of this.
And so I'd read the Word; I'd read it--I'd read it. Then I'd work, start looking--start working, and as we began working this Word of God, is when light began to dawn. And wonderful things that God did for us, He brought men and women across our paths who came just at the right time to help us in our light--men who had gone so far, but no further. But God brought these men so that we could go further because these men brought light. Men like Rufus Mosely; men like E. Stanley Jones; men like Albert Cliff; men like Star Daley; God brought all of these men and others--many of them, across our pathways, just at the right time to add to this revelation and enable us to walk on the Word and understand it.
Perhaps the greatest one to move in the category of what I learned here in Acts four and five, to start the greatness of this thing, was a woman by the name of Rosalind Rinker. Some of you people were--will know her today because she was here in Lima, Ohio less than a year ago--or a year and a half ago. Ah, she travels and works with a woman named Jeanie Price. Jeanie Price is quite an author--writes books that are published by Zondervan, if I remember correctly. Rosalind Rinker had been on the mission field in Korea, if I remember correctly--someplace out East. Korea doesn't sound right to me, I've forgotten now where she was. Where? Was it China? I think you're right.
And a lady by the name of Aletta Yacob had come through from Africa and stopped on her way back to the United States in China. And, this woman, Aletta Yacob, had been filled with the spirit in Africa, and had been operating manifestations of the spirit and things were booming. You know, light was dawning, and people were getting saved and other things happening in Africa that were just beginning to swell--the thing. So she stopped in China, and had a series of evangelistic meetings there and all she allowed to come--or all they allowed to come, were the missionaries, their wives and their children. And they had oodles of conversions among the missionaries, their wives and their children. One of those women who got converted, was Rosalind Rinker who'd been on the mission field for sixteen years--before.
By the way, Aletta Yacob left China, started back home and her ship was bombed in the Pacific and she lost her life. But Rosalind Rinker came back from the mission field and I was doing a monthly piece of writing for a magazine out of Indiana. Remember the name of the magazine? In Butler, Indiana--I forget the title of the magazine; I used to be a regular contributing editor toward it, each week--each month. Pardon? No, it wasn't Christian Advocate. I forget the name of it. But anyways, it was the Higgley Press at Butler, Indiana--it's still there by the way. Ah--Pardon? No, that was Bloomfield--I was with that too, that was Dr. Bloomfield. Ahm, I was in Butler, Indiana at the Higgley Press with my article and talking to the boss, Mr. Higgley, and when we walked back through the building, he introduced me to this woman, Rosalind Rinker. And, we got acquainted just in a brief period of time and somehow or other, it gelled within my heart to say to her "Well, why don't you come over to our house and spend a week?" And she said, "Well, I'll just do it." And that was a surprise to me because the average person who had a depth of religion usually said to me, "Well, I'll pray about it." Ah, that was the usual attitude that I'd run into, by this time. But, you know, if they had any depth of spirituality, like the boys that graduate from Moody, Wheaton and the rest of them, they would always say to me, "We have gotta take time out and pray about it."
But this woman, had found something out there under Aletta Yacob. She had tapped something and she knew that when somebody said to her do so-in-so, if the time was right, it was God's will for her to walk in. So I said to her, "Would you like to come for a week or so with us?" and she said, "Yes, I will." I said, "When will you come?" She said "I'll be there Saturday or Sunday" I forget what. Lo and behold, here she came. You know what we did? When she came, I wanted her to speak to our church group, but she had no interest in that. She said, "I want to talk to you." And we sat down in that same office where I'd had this revelation from the Lord; she began dealing with me in the Word. And, "Boy," I thought to myself, "how can a woman have this much knowledge of the Word?" And she told me she had learned all of this within the last six--seven months!
And she took me--that had been through all these colleges and seminaries and had almost my work for my doctors degree finished--she just takes me and winds me around her finger with the knowledge of God's Word--I didn't know any of God's Word compared to her. I'd quote her some theologian, she said "That don't mean anything to me. What does the Word say?" And she pinned me down, and she took me into the Word, and showed me that it was the Word that counted and not what a theologian said or what a man said but what does the Word say? And she kept backing me up against the wall--whole week long. Just, night after night, day after day, that's all she did.
So, one evening, after everybody else had gone to bed, she and I went into the church and we knelt at the pulpit chairs up in front, and we prayed together, and that was the second great night of my life. When, during the course of that week-end, she told me that God was showing her that He had something very special for me to do, and that I should teach the Word. I forget what this all is about, but it's on the flyleaf of our class on Power For Abundant Living. It is she who made that statement that's on that cover, you know, that red-green-yellow thing that we give out for the classes on Power For Abundant Living. Her statement that she--this isn't the exact words but the essence of it--of what she said is on that sheet. And that greatness of God substantiating to her, what He had already told me, corroborated something in my heart. And that just blessed my soul.
This sent us on a quest, and of course, one of the reasons I'm headed for this story in here tonight is because, she took me through this fourth chapter. She didn't understand it as fully as I understand it now. But she understood enough of the fourth and the fifth chapter of Acts that she made me sit up and pay attention and know that God's Word was more in here than what I was doing or asking my people to do.
But in order to complete something here that God would have me to say now; was at--many years later, along towards forty-six, forty-seven--forty-eight, forty-nine--those years when I was so hungry for God's Word. I used to run anyplace where there was knowledge on God's Word. If I heard of a meeting in--in Arkansas where they were having a meeting along the line of God's Word, I'd jump a plane or take a train to go there.
And I had a wonderful group of Elders in the church in Van Wert at that time. All I would do is call the head Elder and tell him, "I won't be there on Sunday, I've asked Reverend so-in-so to come." Many a time I did this on Thursday night or Friday of the week, and tell him I wouldn't be there on Sunday morning. How would you have enjoyed to been a member of my congregation? You'd never know who your preacher might be next Sunday morning. I was off and runnin' again.
But there was a hunger in my heart and God said He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, but I had to study, I had to work. And revelation begins--this is why I know this so well--revelation begins where the senses cease. What you can know by your senses, God expects you to know. He expects you to study the work that have already been worked out. Men like Bulinger; men like Stevie Ginsberg; God expected me to work those men and countless others. But, He taught me how to get the error out when there was any. And out of that process He taught me then, what was truth. And when there was no way of knowing it, and I'd researched to my fullest ability--tried to find out, then, if there is no other way, He showed it to me by direct revelation. Time and time again, He'd take the scripture and make it this big. I'm reading along in a verse and all at once there it is, two words, this big, for instance. Well, you have to be stupid to miss it, you know.
So I began running, and people, I literally ran all over. I finally started making some trips abroad. I was very much interested in missions, foreign mission--very much. So I started to make some trips to Central America, to see for myself first hand just exactly what was happening on the mission field. And when I got out to the mission field, I found it so surprisingly revolting to me that I couldn't tell it--I couldn't tell it. When I got back to the United States, I couldn't tell it, all I could do is show pretty pictures of the buildings and the nice banana plantations. But they had no more light on the mission field than I had back in the states. Well how could they have, we graduated from the same theological seminaries came out of the same denomination. How could we have any more light there than I had back home, but at that time I didn't know that--right.
So I began questing in all of these fields. And every time I quested, God showed me light--brought people around. And that's why, as the Word began to move, when great truths--like today I teach the four crucified with Jesus. You know we got people in the class--nobody in the class believes it, when I start it, nobody. 'Cause they've all seen the picture of two crucified with Jesus, nobody believes it--unless one of The Way grads has been to 'em before the class, that's all. But if they have never sat under the ministry that we represent or where our ministry has reached out, they're--they're--they're shocked at this thing, they just don't believe it. And yet, within one half hour--to forty-five minutes, every person in the class believes it, sometimes as high as eighteen different denominations, men and women of great difference in ages and mental ability. And yet every one of them sees the truth of God's Word, they stand put on it.
And I remember when I first taught this, when people heard about it, I got letters back. I was a heretic. Oh, and they said such nice things about me, all of this stuff. I was lying, I was trying to tear the Bible apart. Well, what would you do? All I did was kept on working. And as I learned something, I would teach it. When I learned a little more of it, I'd teach it. And that's how we grew. That's why this ministry is among us tonight--not because, primarily of who I am, but because, primarily of what the Word represents in our day and our age. That's right. And therefore, when I knew the Word, I have never backed down on the Word of God--never--that I could remember. If I did, somebody oughta--boot me. I have stood up against my friends at times and said, "You are wrong, that's not what the Word says." I have seen people turn the other way and walk the other way, after I have told them this. But I have never backed down on the Word, and this is one reason why it has cost me so much. Because, at times, sense knowledge wise, it'd be a lot easier to back down on the Word than it is to say to someone, "This is God's Word."
Right in this section where we're dealing tonight--where we're going to be dealing, as we get winding this thing up after a bit--right in here is where many people go the other way. It's just like Jesus; they didn't follow him any longer because something else happened. So it is here. But the greatness of this ministry lays in the hearts of our people who mean business for God, and if you're concerned about the accuracy of the Word. We have no axe to grind with any denomination or any group of people. We have only one Word and that's the greatness of God's Word. And, ladies and gentlemen, if we are heretics because we rightly divide the Word, I'd rather be a heretic with the Lord than be alright being dead wrong--or somethin'--I don't know how we figured that one. That's right. I'd rather be right with the Lord than with the whole bunch of you in here tonight. And I'm sure you'd rather be right with the Lord than with the whole bunch in here tonight.
And the Word has to have the preeminence. And that's why you people, some of you in here again tonight--like every Sunday night, come from distant places to be in here--travel, many of you, hundreds of miles to be in here on a Sunday night for the teaching ministry. Some of you don't travel quite that far, New Bremen; New Knoxville--a few other places. You're close in but some of the rest of 'em travel a lot farther. The thing that has to live is the greatness of the Word, and this has to continue to live within you and you have to walk on it.
There are very few people who can stand the pressure of time. You maybe walk on the ministry one month and the second month something gets to ya'--then it's over with. If you stay a year, somebody oughta give ya' a medal. If you can stay two years, I don't know what ya' oughta to have. But if you can stay as long as the Kupps and the Permins and the Jones's and some of the rest of ya, God must have somethin' real special in store for you. That's all I can say. Because there's hardly anybody that can stick through the pressure of the thing. Because, as all of you people know, once you start teaching the Word--in your community--really setting down the Word of God as it's accurately written, and making people say, "This is what the Word says, and not what you think or I think, or what Johnny Jumpup thinks, or Snowball Pete or Henry Boloko, but this is what the Word says," the people are gonna say "Hey, what's the matter with you? That's not the way I've been taught." Huh, huh, huh! What's the difference how you've been taught? Is it the accuracy of God's Word? When people come up with that argument, "Well that's not the way I've been taught," then you say to them, "Well, why don't you just--still dress in the same old dress Great Grandma dressed in, then?" "Why don't you still farm the same way you farmed fifty years ago, if that's the way you've been brought up." It's a wonderful thing how we can move ahead in everything else, but no person has a right to move on the Word of God--you've got to stay within the confines. It must be a "trip" isn't it? It surely is a trip.
The greatest thing in the world, God's Word, we oughta walk on it. We oughta learn more tomorrow than we know tonight--day after that we oughta know more than we know tomorrow. We oughta keep growing in God's Word. One of the reasons this ministry stands today, yet, is because I have stood for the Word whenever the Word was known to me. And it has been no disgrace to me at times to say; "I don't know the Word." But when I've known it and I've stood on it, I have stayed put--and that's why it lives. This ministry would die within one month's time if we didn't stand. Somebody's got to stand.
Now, this week, when we go to Minnesota again, to teach--you know what the problems will be. Be like in all the scriptures, some believe, some said we'll hear you again, some disbelieve. So what? The right that we have to teach it and the right for our people to learn it and then the people to stand, that's the greatness of it. Well, that's a little background. Father says, "That's it."--so we go on.
And so I’d read the Word; I’d read it––I’d read it. Then I’d work, start looking––start working, and as we began working this Word of God, is when light began to dawn. And wonderful things that God did for us, He brought men and women across our paths who came just at the right time to help us in our light––men who had gone so far, but no further. But God brought these men so that we could go further because these men brought light. Men like Rufus Mosely; men like E. Stanley Jones; men like Albert Cliff; men like Star Daley; God brought all of these men and others––many of them, across our pathways, just at the right time to add to this revelation and enable us to walk on the Word and understand it.
But there was a hunger in my heart and God said He’d teach me the Word if I’d teach it, but I had to study, I had to work. And revelation begins––this is why I know this so well––revelation begins where the senses cease. What you can know by your senses, God expects you to know. He expects you to study the work that have already been worked out. Men like Bulinger; men like Stevie Ginsberg; God expected me to work those men and countless others. But, He taught me how to get the error out when there was any. And out of that process He taught me then, what was truth. And when there was no way of knowing it, and I’d researched to my fullest ability––tried to find out, then, if there is no other way, He showed it to me by direct revelation. Time and time again, He’d take the scripture and make it this big. I’m reading along in a verse and all at once there it is, two words, this big, for instance. Well, you have to be stupid to miss it, you know.
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skyrider
Those of us who exited twi, AND have now done extensive background research on the cult (as opposed to being carried away by youthful groupthink and peer pressure).....maintain strong convictions of t
T-Bone
After thinking about one poster’s recent attempt at revising history...or was it creative writing....I dunno - whatever the he11 you want to call his perspective on PFAL ‘77 - - I thought I’d give it
skyrider
Thanks guys….. life is good, all is well. It’s good to see GSC continuing to sound the alarm as we move into the 2023 new year. Even though twi tries to guilt advanced class grads and corps to *
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Twinky
An no, I'm not trying to launch off into Doctrinal.
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waysider
The orange book is Power For Abundant Living.
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Twinky
PFAL, yes, but isn't one of the collaterals also orange?
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OldSkool
Yeah, The Word's Way is orange.
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waysider
Perhaps I've been under a mistaken impression. I've always thought that "the orange book" refers to PFAL.
Anyway, it has me wondering. If someone does write the book on Wierwille's legacy, what color will it be? Will Christ be carrying it in his left hand when he returns?
Edited by waysidersperling
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So_crates
What color? Bull brown
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OldSkool
Well, the pfal book is given away at classes and other events. When i was around it wasnt really mentioned very much at all. Instead, the collaterals were the books recommended as vital in ones development as a wayfer.
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T-Bone
Yes - and maybe he’s carrying it over to the burn pile (I Corinthians 3:11-15)
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Mike
I was joking. I thought there was not one in France. The 1st edition of JCNG has a mistake to that effect, and I was making light of it. Or I thought I was. It's been many years since I thought about that error in the printing. It was fixed in the 2nd edition, of course.
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waysider
What's that you say? There was an error?
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skyrider
Yes, I agree......."the orange book" referred to the PFAL BOOK.
But you know, waysider.........that is so '70-ish thinking.
As we moved into the '80s, the collateral books were given and/or sold to the students and grads........BUT "the orange book" was shelved. At least, from what I remember......volumes 1-5 were there to supplement the pfal class, but "the orange book" was not sold/distributed to the masses. Vaguely, I seem to recall that this decision was made to keep grads from lending this book to friends, family and co-workers.......and THEN, they felt like they didn't need to take the pfal class, because they'd read the book.
..............and, yes........"The Word's Way" book was burnt-orange with a vertical brown ban near the binder. This brown ban was on all volumes 1-5.
And.......If I'm wrong about this.......then shoot me. It's been like forever since I thought about this........
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JayDee
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Mike
Thank you for that, T-Bone.
I felt the heart in it, as a real discussion flows, well before the “love and peace” close. I will read it again soon, and work on a response. It’s Christmas Eve here, and there are also other reasons why I can’t do that now.
I did notice a question about Mrs. Wierwille’s book. I found it interesting that so many want me to read that. What most of you don’t realize is that I worked with Miney Shroyer alone in a room making tapes for a little over 2 years. She was a contemporary of both Vic and Dotsie. I heard FAR more from her about ministry history than could ever fit into Mrs. Wierwille’s book.
She was honest in her reports to me. She was troubled by several things in ministry history, and in some directions it was moving then (1976-78). I’ve posted MUCH here on this topic, and repeated many of her stories.
My impression is that most posters here look to Mrs. Wierwille’s book for only ONE reason: to find contradictions in VPW’s recollections of his own history. I COULD CARE LESS about this issue.
I never expected VPW to be perfect in ANY capacity except what he and his publishing team (grads with pneuma hagion) shipped in print on paper. That is what God supervised and got right.
EVERYTHING else I the ministry was human and flawed in greater and in lesser degrees.
***
Every human poster here, if subject to the same degree of scrutiny VPW gets, would produce on-and-off over a span of decades, an autobiography that was riddled with contradictions and mistakes.
I’ve learned, over a 40 year span, to make my primary focus: that output that is in book and magazine form. All else is secondary.
I’m saving a lot of things for my old age. Which some tell me is not far away.
When that finally happens I plan to catch up on organizing my stamp collection, learning Spanish, and reading Mrs. Wierwille’s book. Add to that Uncle Harry’s book. He was my buddy at HQ. He made up for Vic’s occasional harshness and bulldoggery.
I was the first grad to handle Uncle Harry’s book. He handed it to me in the Tape Duplicating Department one day on 4 cassette tapes and said, “These are the only copies that exist. Don’t screw it up!” He trusted me.
***
Another thing: I’ve learned in this world of instant communication that if I call someone on the phone and they DON’T pick up, there are about one hundred OTHER reasons for the non-pickup that I haven’t thought of.
I usually latch onto the reason with the most emotional impact, and think it’s the only possible reason. Then I remember. Oh yeah! The Hidden Hundred reasons! Mustn’t forget them.
The same courtesy should be afforded me as to why I haven’t read Mrs. Wierwille’s book.
I mentioned that I only had it on Xerox copies. That’s very difficult to read these days. I sometimes have “bad eye” days and really need to blow text up on my computer for reading. There was a flurry of posts last week here that I also STILL have not read. It was on a bad eye day. I spend a lot of time in my Ophthalmologist’s office these years.
How many posters here might have picked up on these 3 reasons for my serious neglect of ministry history? If y’all could remember that Hidden Hundred, it makes life easier for everyone.
I hate it when someone does not pick up their phone, but I hate it more when I spin off into the “wrong reason blues.”
Now, T-Bone, I’m making a copy of your post for my word processor to blow it up, and will a make a paper note to read it after the holiday.
P.S. I think tomorrow is my 15th anniversary here.
Merry Christmas to all!
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waysider
The PFAL book is what brought me here. I used to lend it out all the time but it never seemed to come back. Thus, I would seek out replacements.I came here to see how I could get a replacement. Belle kindly offered to gift me her copy but by that time I had rad a bit of this site's contents and decided to decline the offer.
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Mike
Actually I have approached her in private chat. It was a few years ago. I also haven't heard Chris Skedule's radio story. I knew her in the Groovey Rye Christian days. Time is short. Life is short. I have priorities that are different from most posters here.
I'd like to talk to her more as well as Karen Martin. We did talk some 10 years ago. I call HQ every 5 years and would love to talk to Rosalie. I knew her a tiny bit back then too. I loved her Southern drawl. Got through 10 years or so ago, and had a great half hour talk with Harvey Platig.
I've posted here that many of VPW's other editors and I, by cosmic coincidence, were close friends. I also talked MUCH with Walter about these things for years, up until 1999.
LONG before I ever dreamed that the collaterals were God-breathed I was fascinated with the mechanics of their production and the other people that were involved. I see it as a masterpiece project, God-supervised, with many spirit filled players, and spanning centuries. Vic was just one such player, a key one, but there were many others that were totally needed.
We see remnants of Paul's publishing team in the first verses of both Thessalonian Epistles, and also in the conclusion of II Timothy.
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Mike
Yes. Don't you remember what we were taught about things like that?
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waysider
Was it or was it not an actual error in PFAL? A simple yes or no would be sufficient.
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Mike
It sounds like you don't remember what we were taught about these kinds of things.
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So_crates
I think they're trying to get at how does something that's God-breathe have errors?
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waysider
Refresh my memory.
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T-Bone
Hey Mike,
Don’t bother looking at my drivel…I’m so sorry for giving you such grief all the time…I have some issues obviously – I guess I don’t know when to throttle it back… and by nature I’m an a$$hole anyway…not making excuses – just giving you reasons.... I’ll work on being a nicer person – I promise. Merry Christmas and happy new year!
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OldSkool
Mike, you keep rationalizing what vpw said of himself and ministry history as if it were a trivial matter for a man of God (a clergyman no less, and a supposed Dr.) to lie about things on the grand scale he did. Given his assumed position (not to mention delusions of grandeur) he had the highest responsibility to represent himself, twi, and cite his sources accurately. I have limited experience in the publishing industry where ive helped edit various secular publications (copy/developmental) and reference checking was always extremely important. So how much higher the quality should be devoted to biblically based publications in all aspects?
Yet rationalization is nothing new, in fact vpw, and lcm were grand masters at it. Lcm said he had a consensual affair. But how much higher the responsibility of a supposed man of God to keep and protect himself by the highest standards of conduct in avoiding such evils....yet...upon closer inspection he had a track record as a sexual predator complete with help from a certain procuress in arrainging sexual situations. But when the Allen lawsuit broke i cant tell you how many times i rationalized his behavior away as if it were a small matter compared to all the good he accomplished. And of course i compared his ordeal to David and Bathsheeba. It took years of smelling salts to wake from rhe cult stupor i was in! I had to read the court documents for myself to truly understand the egregious nature of Martindale's affairs...anyway.
God Bless and Merry Christmas!
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Mike
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Mike
I've mentioned a SNS tape from 1965 a few times here, and it occurred to me it is spot on with the thread's topic. This is how VPW cited his sources in 1965:
Excerpt from SNS Tape #214 Selling Plurality: Acts 4:34
(sometimes called "Light Began to Dawn")
I remember the time when we began working this Word of God, and light began to dawn on it. That, as we got more and more light, we got less and less people. Because the background of this ministry has a great deal more in it than most of you people know today who have just come into this ministry in the last five to ten years. Because you can come into a beautiful auditorium like this--and by the way, we laid a new sidewalk for ya' this week. Did you notice it? Now it can snow 'cause you can all get in with dry feet and clean feet and so forth.
Well, Doc--he formed it up good and Bob and he poured it and Rueben helped and a couple ladies to help and, boy, everybody worked--to get 'er done. But, how'd I get on sidewalks, what were we talking about? Okay, what were we talkin' about, Thelma? Oh, yes--you see all of this and you walk into a comfortable building that's air conditioned in summer and heated occasionally in winter, and all of these other wonderful things we have here, and you say, "Boy, isn't this something?"
But, in order to make available what's here tonight, there's some of us who have had to stand through thick and thin; through a lot of talk, a lot of persecution, a lot of bickering and a lot of laughing. And at times we have had to take a stand when even our best friends moved away. I remember the day when there were no more than two or three people would come to a Bible study on Wednesday or Thursday night in the week. And I suppose today, if we only had two or three people, we--we'd think the world came to an end. But I remember those days, and here in the auditorium again tonight--I don't know if you people knew I was gonna teach on this, that's why you all came, huh?
But here sit the Kupps from Convoy,Ohio , the Permins from Ft. Wayne , Indiana , the Ira Joneses from Van Wert , Ohio Ft. Wayne
So, I could tell ya' lots about a lot of these people--but it's all good--it's all good. Ah, Eldo just brought me a hunting knife tonight, I lost the one he gave me last year, so he brought me a new one tonight. Ah is it sharp? It--aha! Yeah--he said he got me a wet stone it was--it oughta be sharp 'cause he-he sharpens knives over there in Convoy--among other things. He-he's worked at ah, you work at Goodyear didn't you--no, not ah--Harvester. I get St. Mary's andFort Wayne
But people like the Kupps and the Permins and the Joneses, when I teach here on Sunday night, many times the things that I teach, they may have heard a dozen times. They may have been in on the first services when some of this stuff began to brew within my soul and I used to teach this thing in Van Wert. And as this ministry began to grow, the knowledge of God's Word began to grow in my heart, I shared it with people. And most of the people that I've shared it with, we still have wonderful friends, they have a good feeling towards you; they're thankful that they knew you and they're thankful for what's going on. But to stand with the ministry, except to be thankful--that's better than havin' stand the other way, for which I'm grateful, they--they don't do anything concrete for the ministry, like these people do. Occasionally they come, but not systematically.
And as I look back over the years, to think how this ministry really started, it began at a place that's almost impossible for people to realize. Because when they look at the ministry, or they look at my life, here in the local community and every other place, they simply say, "Well, why didn't he stay where he was?" "Why didn't he stay in the denomination?" "Why didn't he move it?" "Can't a man work there?" There's a lot of answers and a lot of things to be discussed in that category. But it began because of the hunger in my heart for a knowledge of God's Word--that's where it began. I had read commentaries upon commentaries, I had read books upon books, and yet, I could not understand the Word--I couldn't put the Bible together. There were things that did not fit, and what one person said about a certain verse of scripture, another equally intelligent person contradicted what that person said.
And when I went into the ministry in Nineteen Hundred and Forty One (1941), in PayneOhio --and perhaps the finest people that we still have left from Payne , Ohio Payne , Ohio
Why was it that a man could go through four years of college and about five years of seminary, at that time; have a bachelors of arts, a bachelor of divinity, a masters of theology and all of my work finished for a PHD with the exception of about seven credits--being out there in the ministry and not being able to get the job done? I saw my farmers out there farm, they got the corn crop, they got the wheat, they got the oats, they got the corn, but inside of the church, I couldn't see any results. Oh, it was nice to have the chicken dinners and the little family affairs you go to, you know, and the women's guild that--men's brotherhood, all of that, but no real results. And I got sort of sick in my heart, and I began praying that God would show me how this Word was put together--because all I did was what the average person still does; he just reads a verse of scripture and then reads a commentary on it and preaches what the commentary says. Or he gets an idea of what it means but never able to fit the scripture from Genesis to Revelation. And I had read so many books and saw so much contradiction that it was impossible for me to be able to teach the Word.
I remember one meeting of the Evangelical and Reformed ministers in the early days of my ministry. This is about six--seven months after I was in the ministry. I was asked to speak to this group, meeting up North. And I spoke to them what I believed was the truth of God's Word, and that is that "The least a Christian could do was to tithe." And being a young minister in the church, those ministers almost laughed me out of the meeting. They said, "Well, Wierwille, are you that stupid that you think that we, as Christian ministers, should still tithe?" And I said, "Yes, don't you?" And they said, "No, we don't tithe." One minister in that whole group tithed--and Anna Shwere you'd know who it was if I named him. He was in that meeting--only one, and he said--he said, "Well, I've tithed ever since I've been a Christian." But all the rest of 'em said, "No, we don't give our tithes." And that shook me, it hurt me, because I thought, certainly the ministers, if they were going to head up the congregation would do as much or more than they would ask their people to do. That was shock number one, and it was a dandy--it didn't leave me--it left me numb and never got me back to my senses for about four weeks, I just couldn't imagine.
And so, all of this stuff began to build. And so finally, as I kept praying, I just said to the Father, I said "Father, teach me the Word--teach me the Word." And one night, something happened, which to me is the greatest thing I don't--I see only one experience that perhaps is greater than this in the Bible, and that's the Apostle Paul's experience on the road toDamascus
And I thought that was terrific! But during the process of that revelation--and I can't tell it all to you because we're already closing off; but during the process of it, I said: "Father, how will I know that this is You and that You'll really teach it to me?" Because I had worked the Word in commentaries and the rest of it and I couldn't understand it--couldn't get it to fit. It happened to be bright sunshine like today--like it's been today and yesterday--what we people refer to, I guess as "Indian Summer"--beautiful day. And the sun was shining brightly; it was in the Fall of the year--gorgeous! And there wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, Well, if--if it'll just snow--right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you." But, you see I'd never had much experience with God talking to me, and this business of He saying to me, just as audibly as I'm speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me.
I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before, you know. Ah, my ears were perhaps clogged up, since that time I've heard a lot of things--from Him. But, then I said, "Lord, if this is really true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes--must not have been over three seconds, and I was sitting in front of the window looking East, the sun was--ah, West. The sun was in the West and there wasn't a cloud in the sky 'cause I could see the whole area. I closed my eyes when God said to me that He would teach me the Word if I'd teach it. And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes and it was pitch--almost pitch black outside and the snow was falling so thick, I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office and I cried like a baby, because I guess it was about my time to cry, because I'd grown up but didn't know the Word.
And from that day on and He'd promised to teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart, from time to time--all along, to learn this Word. One of the reasons there are sections of the Word perhaps that I--I don't know, because I do too much cement pouring and a few other items that have to be done and that have to be taken care of. But I am absolutely confident that there is no portion of God's Word that God would not teach me and unfold to me if I studied the Word to show myself approved unto Him by rightly dividing it.
And that began the ministry that has cost me, sense-knowledge, more than anybody will ever realize--except those of us who've gone through it. It gives ya' a whole set of new friends. It caused people, heads of my denomination, through various times when I appeared teaching, like inIndia
These are prices you pay. Then you say, well, why don't I reciprocate? Because, people, you can't fight and work the Word too. You can't be fighting all the time and trying to defend yourself against the unbelievers, because the unbelievers are many more than the believers. And we've got only one job to do, as far as my life is concerned, and that is to teach the Word. Whether anybody believes it or not, that's not my responsibility. But to teach it is my responsibility, because He said He'd teach me the Word if I would do one thing--teach it.
Now in order to teach it, I have to study the Word; and when I study it, He shows it to me, then I can teach it. I think a lot of you people know these Bible students that are in here tonight, and we have among our people gathered here tonight, like almost every Sunday night, some of the finest Bible students in the world today. We have Bible students in here to whom no theologian in the entire world can hold a candle when it comes to the rightly dividing and the understanding of God's Word. I think every person in here knows that they can work the Word and they do work it. They get wonderful light and they contribute a great deal to The Way ministry and the light that's taught out of The Way ministry. But when these people bring their light on the Word to me and I have the opportunity to hear it--it doesn't take me but one reading or one hearing and I can, usually, without working it too far, I can pick out the error or pick the good that they bring and fit it right in.
But this is what God raised me to and when He gave me that revelation, and that was a real phenomena or phenomenon. From that day on--this was inPayne , Ohio
And so I'd read the Word; I'd read it--I'd read it. Then I'd work, start looking--start working, and as we began working this Word of God, is when light began to dawn. And wonderful things that God did for us, He brought men and women across our paths who came just at the right time to help us in our light--men who had gone so far, but no further. But God brought these men so that we could go further because these men brought light. Men like Rufus Mosely; men like E. Stanley Jones; men like Albert Cliff; men like Star Daley; God brought all of these men and others--many of them, across our pathways, just at the right time to add to this revelation and enable us to walk on the Word and understand it.
Perhaps the greatest one to move in the category of what I learned here in Acts four and five, to start the greatness of this thing, was a woman by the name of Rosalind Rinker. Some of you people were--will know her today because she was here inLima , Ohio Korea Korea China
And a lady by the name of Aletta Yacob had come through from Africa and stopped on her way back to theUnited States in China Africa , and had been operating manifestations of the spirit and things were booming. You know, light was dawning, and people were getting saved and other things happening in Africa that were just beginning to swell--the thing. So she stopped in China
By the way, Aletta Yacob leftChina Indiana Butler , Indiana Butler , Indiana Bloomfield Butler , Indiana
But this woman, had found something out there under Aletta Yacob. She had tapped something and she knew that when somebody said to her do so-in-so, if the time was right, it was God's will for her to walk in. So I said to her, "Would you like to come for a week or so with us?" and she said, "Yes, I will." I said, "When will you come?" She said "I'll be there Saturday or Sunday" I forget what. Lo and behold, here she came. You know what we did? When she came, I wanted her to speak to our church group, but she had no interest in that. She said, "I want to talk to you." And we sat down in that same office where I'd had this revelation from the Lord; she began dealing with me in the Word. And, "Boy," I thought to myself, "how can a woman have this much knowledge of the Word?" And she told me she had learned all of this within the last six--seven months!
And she took me--that had been through all these colleges and seminaries and had almost my work for my doctors degree finished--she just takes me and winds me around her finger with the knowledge of God's Word--I didn't know any of God's Word compared to her. I'd quote her some theologian, she said "That don't mean anything to me. What does the Word say?" And she pinned me down, and she took me into the Word, and showed me that it was the Word that counted and not what a theologian said or what a man said but what does the Word say? And she kept backing me up against the wall--whole week long. Just, night after night, day after day, that's all she did.
So, one evening, after everybody else had gone to bed, she and I went into the church and we knelt at the pulpit chairs up in front, and we prayed together, and that was the second great night of my life. When, during the course of that week-end, she told me that God was showing her that He had something very special for me to do, and that I should teach the Word. I forget what this all is about, but it's on the flyleaf of our class on Power For Abundant Living. It is she who made that statement that's on that cover, you know, that red-green-yellow thing that we give out for the classes on Power For Abundant Living. Her statement that she--this isn't the exact words but the essence of it--of what she said is on that sheet. And that greatness of God substantiating to her, what He had already told me, corroborated something in my heart. And that just blessed my soul.
This sent us on a quest, and of course, one of the reasons I'm headed for this story in here tonight is because, she took me through this fourth chapter. She didn't understand it as fully as I understand it now. But she understood enough of the fourth and the fifth chapter of Acts that she made me sit up and pay attention and know that God's Word was more in here than what I was doing or asking my people to do.
But in order to complete something here that God would have me to say now; was at--many years later, along towards forty-six, forty-seven--forty-eight, forty-nine--those years when I was so hungry for God's Word. I used to run anyplace where there was knowledge on God's Word. If I heard of a meeting in--inArkansas
And I had a wonderful group of Elders in the church in Van Wert at that time. All I would do is call the head Elder and tell him, "I won't be there on Sunday, I've asked Reverend so-in-so to come." Many a time I did this on Thursday night or Friday of the week, and tell him I wouldn't be there on Sunday morning. How would you have enjoyed to been a member of my congregation? You'd never know who your preacher might be next Sunday morning. I was off and runnin' again.
But there was a hunger in my heart and God said He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, but I had to study, I had to work. And revelation begins--this is why I know this so well--revelation begins where the senses cease. What you can know by your senses, God expects you to know. He expects you to study the work that have already been worked out. Men like Bulinger; men like Stevie Ginsberg; God expected me to work those men and countless others. But, He taught me how to get the error out when there was any. And out of that process He taught me then, what was truth. And when there was no way of knowing it, and I'd researched to my fullest ability--tried to find out, then, if there is no other way, He showed it to me by direct revelation. Time and time again, He'd take the scripture and make it this big. I'm reading along in a verse and all at once there it is, two words, this big, for instance. Well, you have to be stupid to miss it, you know.
So I began running, and people, I literally ran all over. I finally started making some trips abroad. I was very much interested in missions, foreign mission--very much. So I started to make some trips toCentral America , to see for myself first hand just exactly what was happening on the mission field. And when I got out to the mission field, I found it so surprisingly revolting to me that I couldn't tell it--I couldn't tell it. When I got back to the United States
So I began questing in all of these fields. And every time I quested, God showed me light--brought people around. And that's why, as the Word began to move, when great truths--like today I teach the four crucified with Jesus. You know we got people in the class--nobody in the class believes it, when I start it, nobody. 'Cause they've all seen the picture of two crucified with Jesus, nobody believes it--unless one of The Way grads has been to 'em before the class, that's all. But if they have never sat under the ministry that we represent or where our ministry has reached out, they're--they're--they're shocked at this thing, they just don't believe it. And yet, within one half hour--to forty-five minutes, every person in the class believes it, sometimes as high as eighteen different denominations, men and women of great difference in ages and mental ability. And yet every one of them sees the truth of God's Word, they stand put on it.
And I remember when I first taught this, when people heard about it, I got letters back. I was a heretic. Oh, and they said such nice things about me, all of this stuff. I was lying, I was trying to tear the Bible apart. Well, what would you do? All I did was kept on working. And as I learned something, I would teach it. When I learned a little more of it, I'd teach it. And that's how we grew. That's why this ministry is among us tonight--not because, primarily of who I am, but because, primarily of what the Word represents in our day and our age. That's right. And therefore, when I knew the Word, I have never backed down on the Word of God--never--that I could remember. If I did, somebody oughta--boot me. I have stood up against my friends at times and said, "You are wrong, that's not what the Word says." I have seen people turn the other way and walk the other way, after I have told them this. But I have never backed down on the Word, and this is one reason why it has cost me so much. Because, at times, sense knowledge wise, it'd be a lot easier to back down on the Word than it is to say to someone, "This is God's Word."
Right in this section where we're dealing tonight--where we're going to be dealing, as we get winding this thing up after a bit--right in here is where many people go the other way. It's just like Jesus; they didn't follow him any longer because something else happened. So it is here. But the greatness of this ministry lays in the hearts of our people who mean business for God, and if you're concerned about the accuracy of the Word. We have no axe to grind with any denomination or any group of people. We have only one Word and that's the greatness of God's Word. And, ladies and gentlemen, if we are heretics because we rightly divide the Word, I'd rather be a heretic with the Lord than be alright being dead wrong--or somethin'--I don't know how we figured that one. That's right. I'd rather be right with the Lord than with the whole bunch of you in here tonight. And I'm sure you'd rather be right with the Lord than with the whole bunch in here tonight.
And the Word has to have the preeminence. And that's why you people, some of you in here again tonight--like every Sunday night, come from distant places to be in here--travel, many of you, hundreds of miles to be in here on a Sunday night for the teaching ministry. Some of you don't travel quite that far, New Bremen; New Knoxville--a few other places. You're close in but some of the rest of 'em travel a lot farther. The thing that has to live is the greatness of the Word, and this has to continue to live within you and you have to walk on it.
There are very few people who can stand the pressure of time. You maybe walk on the ministry one month and the second month something gets to ya'--then it's over with. If you stay a year, somebody oughta give ya' a medal. If you can stay two years, I don't know what ya' oughta to have. But if you can stay as long as the Kupps and the Permins and the Jones's and some of the rest of ya, God must have somethin' real special in store for you. That's all I can say. Because there's hardly anybody that can stick through the pressure of the thing. Because, as all of you people know, once you start teaching the Word--in your community--really setting down the Word of God as it's accurately written, and making people say, "This is what the Word says, and not what you think or I think, or what Johnny Jumpup thinks, or Snowball Pete or Henry Boloko, but this is what the Word says," the people are gonna say "Hey, what's the matter with you? That's not the way I've been taught." Huh, huh, huh! What's the difference how you've been taught? Is it the accuracy of God's Word? When people come up with that argument, "Well that's not the way I've been taught," then you say to them, "Well, why don't you just--still dress in the same old dress Great Grandma dressed in, then?" "Why don't you still farm the same way you farmed fifty years ago, if that's the way you've been brought up." It's a wonderful thing how we can move ahead in everything else, but no person has a right to move on the Word of God--you've got to stay within the confines. It must be a "trip" isn't it? It surely is a trip.
The greatest thing in the world, God's Word, we oughta walk on it. We oughta learn more tomorrow than we know tonight--day after that we oughta know more than we know tomorrow. We oughta keep growing in God's Word. One of the reasons this ministry stands today, yet, is because I have stood for the Word whenever the Word was known to me. And it has been no disgrace to me at times to say; "I don't know the Word." But when I've known it and I've stood on it, I have stayed put--and that's why it lives. This ministry would die within one month's time if we didn't stand. Somebody's got to stand.
Now, this week, when we go toMinnesota
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Here are some pertinent passages from the above:
And so I’d read the Word; I’d read it––I’d read it. Then I’d work, start looking––start working, and as we began working this Word of God, is when light began to dawn. And wonderful things that God did for us, He brought men and women across our paths who came just at the right time to help us in our light––men who had gone so far, but no further. But God brought these men so that we could go further because these men brought light. Men like Rufus Mosely; men like E. Stanley Jones; men like Albert Cliff; men like Star Daley; God brought all of these men and others––many of them, across our pathways, just at the right time to add to this revelation and enable us to walk on the Word and understand it.
But there was a hunger in my heart and God said He’d teach me the Word if I’d teach it, but I had to study, I had to work. And revelation begins––this is why I know this so well––revelation begins where the senses cease. What you can know by your senses, God expects you to know. He expects you to study the work that have already been worked out. Men like Bulinger; men like Stevie Ginsberg; God expected me to work those men and countless others. But, He taught me how to get the error out when there was any. And out of that process He taught me then, what was truth. And when there was no way of knowing it, and I’d researched to my fullest ability––tried to find out, then, if there is no other way, He showed it to me by direct revelation. Time and time again, He’d take the scripture and make it this big. I’m reading along in a verse and all at once there it is, two words, this big, for instance. Well, you have to be stupid to miss it, you know.
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