Twinky, I think a lot of former Way people would read it; I for one would. I nominate Sky, and DWBH to write it, along with RAF to edit it. Raf has excellent writing skills, as do Sky, and DWBH. Also Sky, and DWBH know a lot of the S--t that happened when VPW was alive. Just a thought.
Could someone elaborate on this? I had no idea there was an attempt to re-film PFAL.
Oh yeah - my wife and I went to it - PFAL '77...hey, Grease Spotters, was it at Ball State U or was that Advanced Class '79 ? we've been to both live classes...yeah and I think "the teacher" was drunk at both of them most of the time we were in session.
As for writing a sequel to Born To Serve, Karen would be the logical choice, but I doubt TWI would publish it, she might have to self publish the material but I suspect she would sanitise it.
PFAL 77 was ar Ball State. Advanced Class had 1 session open to Foundational and Intermediate grads at Athens, Ohio which I attended
37 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:
Piffle 77 was at Ball State, and AC '79 was st The University of Ohio, Athens, OH. Private college, not connected with OSU.
Thanks Thomas & Don’t Worry,
Don’t know if it’s that I’m just getting older or it’s the way I deal with the PTSD of surviving a cult but I have a hard time remembering a lot of details like that....either way - maybe it’s a blessing anyway.
Here, let me help get the ball rolling..............on Volume II
1977.....................Attempt to re-film pfal at PFAL '77........failed
7 hours ago, Infoabsorption said:
Could someone elaborate on this? I had no idea there was an attempt to re-film PFAL.
Infoabsorption.............PFAL '77 was promoted as this "see Dr. Wierwille teach pfal LIVE."
This was the 10th anniversary of wierwille's "skinny-tie" class and many at hq believed that it was time to re-film pfal for marketing purposes and posterity. With new cameras to aid in best quality, the students were given instructions on dress code, being quiet......and when to applaud. Camera shots panned the audience at this class in Ball State University, Muncie Indiana and were to be included in this new class.
Every effort was made to ensure that Dr. Wierwille's "new foundational class" would be top quality. At age 60, many thought that this would be the last time wierwille would step up to the plate and teach this class live.
But when the class ended and the final product was taken back to hq and examined........it had several flaws in it. Also, the material, stories and "spontaneity of jokes" came off flat......definitely, didn't surpass the '67 class. From what I had heard......that was the gist of things. So, the '67 class was going to have to keep plugging along.......skinny tie and all. Others might be able to give you more details.
And, of course..................it was all hushed over. I mean, who wants to admit that "the man of gawd" failed to deliver a better product.
And, for a helluva lot more money too, Skyrider! They worked on that thing for over a year. Putting Rosie and Bob Winegarner in charge of the entire project is what sunk way Prod. Up until that point, Ted Ferrell was the Director of Way Prod nominally, but honestly, for the rest of us, the real "head" of Way Prod in the opinion of those of us in the cast, was Ken McCaw. Ken was a talented musician AND composer. He played several instruments (piano, bass, guitar, drums, plus more), read music and was able to score sheet music. He was our age, and he was respected because of his talent, ability, and, the fact that he was a genuinely nice person, made it an informal, yet very tight working arrangement.
But, once Rosie and Bob got dictor's ear, and kissed his ass long enough, through the garbage like the Victims (victors), and Braindead (Branded), High Country Caravan, and the other smarmy Oak Ridge Boys-Bill Gaither-Mills Brothers castor oil quality acts in the minds of those of us in the original Joyful Noise and Way Prod casts, way Prod was dead. Then, they sent them all on the field in 1977-1978.....THE very year that they killed way Prod with Rosie and Bob W. So, with all of the original way Prod/Joyful Noise cast out on the field, Rosie and Bobbie consolidated the creative and economic control of Way Prod for good with dictor's enthusiastic, self-serving "blessing". As soon as Piffle 77 was done, they were assigned to "put together" AC '79! And, the original cast and heart and soul of way prod/Joyful Noise was done. Finnegan briefly brought some independence and creativity back to way Prod when they brought JN back to HQ to do the Take A Shit Caravans. That was 1978-79. Later, when the Trunk was transferred to the third guy, the concept grew into the Outreach Weeks and Takit etc., beginning in the early spring of 1980. But, even during the Outreach Weeks, Rosie and Bobbie were responsible for the Saturday Night Concert and the Broadway-style show, "Arnie's Story", starring Joe Fair as Arnie and a number of HQ based actors and performers who came into the Outreach Cities on Fridays to prepare for the Saturday night productions. So, even though Takit and I were a self-contained unit on the way Prod coach, those Saturdays sometimes saw friction between what we "field" personnel wanted to do based on our entire week there, and what the HQ mucketty-mucks thought was "the best way to communicate Dr.Wierwille's heart". Sometimes the friction turned into outright animosity between myself and Rosie-Bob. And, dictor paul artfully played both ends against each other to enjoy his power to manipulate all of his keedz.
The bottom line is, beginning with Piffle '77, way Prod and everything in TWIt became ALL ABOUT DIC. That's what it was always all about, but PFAL '77 made it okay to do that publically without reserve, shame, or guilt. Now you may get an idea why I fought so hard to have my interim corpse assignment changed by VP himself.
It was the first time any corpse had an Interim year. My assignment was Way Productions/Joyful Noise, HQ. And THAT was the last place I wanted to be!! So, I immediately went over to vic's place after the announcement meeting at the SNS, and told him I could not stay at HQ. I wanted to "move the woid" on the field. So, my second assignment was Twig Coordinator, Asheville, NC. When Doug Emerson, limb dick of NC on his way into the First Special Corpse (Family Corpse 1), heard that he was getting Interim corpse to Western NC, he named it the Western Area and I became the 1st Western Area coordinator based out of Charlotte, instead of Asheville. That is when I officially left Way Prod. IMO, just in time!!..................peace.
Could someone elaborate on this? I had no idea there was an attempt to re-film PFAL.
Yes - - it was originally advertised and promoted as a re-filming for a "new and improved with a modern look to it" class for us to peddle to the masses. I also was there (I almost put the word "also" after the word "there" instead of "I", but caught myself in time in order to be correct according to Bullinger and the proper placement of the word "also"), and it was evident after just the first few minutes of session 1 - - that things were not going as planned. Docvic tried to recite all the lines verbatim from the original class, and he failed completely.
The folks who were all attending PFAL 77, were staying in student dorms there on campus. We were all put into twigs according to our housing assignments and once the disaster of Day 1/ Session 1 of the event took place, it didn't take long at all for our twig leader to tell us that "things had changed" and that this class was no longer a re-filming to make over the class for all to see - - but that it was "just for us". I look back on that nowadays and think B as in B and S as in S - - but back then I bought the story hook, line, and sinker, even after seeing Docvic's PAINFUL attempt trying to "teach" that first day. My memory isn't as good as it was 30 years ago, but that there is what I remember of the "re-making" of PFAL in '77.
P.S. - - In each of our dorm rooms there was a Jade plant for us to take home, along with a 35th anniversary commemorative plate. The Jade plant supposedly signifies longevity. Well -- I brought mine home after the class, and it died long ago (just like my affiliation with twi). But I do still have the 35th anniversary plate.
Does anyone want it??
Yes - - it was originally advertised and promoted as a re-filming for a "new and improved with a modern look to it" class for us to peddle to the masses. I also was there (I almost put the word "also" after the word "there" instead of "I", but caught myself in time in order to be correct according to Bullinger and the proper placement of the word "also"), and it was evident after just the first few minutes of session 1 - - that things were not going as planned. Docvic tried to recite all the lines verbatim from the original class, and he failed completely.
The folks who were all attending PFAL 77, were staying in student dorms there on campus. We were all put into twigs according to our housing assignments and once the disaster of Day 1/ Session 1 of the event took place, it didn't take long at all for our twig leader to tell us that "things had changed" and that this class was no longer a re-filming to make over the class for all to see - - but that it was "just for us". I look back on that nowadays and think B as in B and S as in S - - but back then I bought the story hook, line, and sinker, even after seeing Docvic's PAINFUL attempt trying to "teach" that first day. My memory isn't as good as it was 30 years ago, but that there is what I remember of the "re-making" of PFAL in '77.
P.S. - - In each of our dorm rooms there was a Jade plant for us to take home, along with a 35th anniversary commemorative plate. The Jade plant supposedly signifies longevity. Well -- I brought mine home after the class, and it died long ago (just like my affiliation with twi). But I do still have the 35th anniversary plate.
Does anyone want it??
Now that you mention it........I do remember that.
"Things had changed" and this class was *just for us*..............TRANSLATION: Wierwille was not able to teach a LIVE CLASS. He didn't have a grasp of the scripture and materials that he had long plagiarized thru the years, nor did he function well under pressure. With cameras and lights and students in the room, wierwille couldn't have his Drambuie and drink it too. So, when wierwille eliminated the pressure of re-filming this LIVE for generations to come all the a/v pressures, camera angles and class parameters were diminished ...........and vpw could then, again, sip his Drambuie-coffee while sitting at his desk "teaching the class."
And further ......by 1977, things were a'changing in twi...........THAT'S FOR SURE.
Now that you mention it........I do remember that.
"Things had changed" and this class was *just for us*..............TRANSLATION: Wierwille was not able to teach a LIVE CLASS. He didn't have a grasp of the scripture and materials that he had long plagiarized thru the years, nor did he function well under pressure. With cameras and lights and students in the room, wierwille couldn't have his Drambuie and drink it too. So, when wierwille eliminated the pressure of re-filming this LIVE for generations to come all the a/v pressures, camera angles and class parameters were diminished ...........and vpw could then, again, sip his Drambuie-coffee while sitting at his desk "teaching the class."
And further ......by 1977, things were a'changing in twi...........THAT'S FOR SURE.
good point Skyrider
and that reminds me of one PFAL ‘77 session when he was going over one of his wooden phrases “things equal to the same thing are equal to each other” - when suddenly “rev” Bob M jumps up in the balcony (we were seated near him) - cups his hands around his mouth megaphone-style and yells “the transitive property of equality”...I can’t remember the reaction of wierwille on stage because I was awe struck - or maybe aghast - that someone in the class would call out while “doctor” was teaching.
This goes to show you the students knew the material better than the “teacher” - if you want to call him that...he11, he couldn’t even be a substitute teacher...he would be the last resort if you’re short handed on substitute teachers - so you get the doofus who makes copies in the admin’s office figuring maybe he’ll at least be able to parrot some of the material that he copied and wing it to fill in the rest.
Now that you mention it........I do remember that.
"Things had changed" and this class was *just for us*..............TRANSLATION: Wierwille was not able to teach a LIVE CLASS. He didn't have a grasp of the scripture and materials that he had long plagiarized thru the years, nor did he function well under pressure. With cameras and lights and students in the room, wierwille couldn't have his Drambuie and drink it too. So, when wierwille eliminated the pressure of re-filming this LIVE for generations to come all the a/v pressures, camera angles and class parameters were diminished ...........and vpw could then, again, sip his Drambuie-coffee while sitting at his desk "teaching the class."
And further ......by 1977, things were a'changing in twi...........THAT'S FOR SURE.
David, and Sky, thanks for the information. Sky, it never dawned on me, that teaching a "live class" would be so hard for VPW. Gee, wasn't he "The Teacher?" Teachers teach "live classes" for years, and years. Most of the teachers I had were happy (I hope!) When I asked questions. I used to ask a lot of thoughtful(to me anyway) questions in various classes I took. Can you imagine someone asking VPW a question about the Bible?? He might not have been able to answer it; God forbid should he have said "I don't know?" I would have thought that VPW would have known that he wasn't capable of teaching a real class, and not pretended otherwise. Perhaps he realized during the filming of that class in 1977, that many students would see through his facade, and know that he ran a bogus Ministry, if he continued to film a live class.
Why doesn't rozilla write volume II of the wierwille legacy?
She knows the cunning art of deception
She oversaw way publications for years
She knows "vp's heart" behind way productions
What else does she have to do all day?
Sky, I would think she might be forced to look deeply into her heart, and be forced to admit to herself that she has been living a sinful life for decades. She might be forced to examine her life, and realize that she is a total fraud. Wow! For her, that might be truly unbearable; she might not be capable of such a process.
Sky, I would think she might be forced to look deeply into her heart, and be forced to admit to herself that she has been living a sinful life for decades. She might be forced to examine her life, and realize that she is a total fraud. Wow! For her, that might be truly unbearable; she might not be capable of such a process.
Nice thought... but I doubt she'd ever do any of those things... short of a very major and meaningful to her "significant emotional event."
Nice thought... but I doubt she'd ever do any of those things... short of a very major and meaningful to her "significant emotional event."
Rocky, I think you are right; she probably won't do those things. But, speaking only for myself; I have had to look deeply into my heart, and I did not like what was there. I was willing to change what was there; not for me, but for God. Rosie may be willing to bulls$$t others, but she can't bulls$$t God. God will one day judge all of us for our actions, in this world. I want to go to God with as clean a slate as Humanly possible.
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skyrider
Those of us who exited twi, AND have now done extensive background research on the cult (as opposed to being carried away by youthful groupthink and peer pressure).....maintain strong convictions of t
T-Bone
After thinking about one poster’s recent attempt at revising history...or was it creative writing....I dunno - whatever the he11 you want to call his perspective on PFAL ‘77 - - I thought I’d give it
skyrider
Thanks guys….. life is good, all is well. It’s good to see GSC continuing to sound the alarm as we move into the 2023 new year. Even though twi tries to guilt advanced class grads and corps to *
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T-Bone
If I wrote it there’d be a lot of folks who would probably think i plagiarized II Peter chapter 2.
II Peter 2
Edited by T-BoneFrom the hit series “House of Green Cards”
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skyrider
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skyrider
Why doesn't rozilla write volume II of the wierwille legacy?
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skyrider
It Is Already Written...............by the blood, sweat, and tears of GreaseSpotters
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T-Bone
I bet she spends most of her day rolling in the dough !!!!!
Edited by T-Boneme-yowser bowser
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skyrider
Here, let me help get the ball rolling..............on Volume II
40.....er, 25 yrs as twi prezThere ...........THAT WAS EASY
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Twinky
Who cares who'd write it?
Who the h311 would read it?
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Infoabsorption
Could someone elaborate on this? I had no idea there was an attempt to re-film PFAL.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, I think a lot of former Way people would read it; I for one would. I nominate Sky, and DWBH to write it, along with RAF to edit it. Raf has excellent writing skills, as do Sky, and DWBH. Also Sky, and DWBH know a lot of the S--t that happened when VPW was alive. Just a thought.
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T-Bone
Oh yeah - my wife and I went to it - PFAL '77...hey, Grease Spotters, was it at Ball State U or was that Advanced Class '79 ? we've been to both live classes...yeah and I think "the teacher" was drunk at both of them most of the time we were in session.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
PFAL 77 was ar Ball State. Advanced Class had 1 session open to Foundational and Intermediate grads at Athens, Ohio which I attended
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DontWorryBeHappy
Piffle 77 was at Ball State, and AC '79 was st The University of Ohio, Athens, OH. Private college, not connected with OSU.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
As for writing a sequel to Born To Serve, Karen would be the logical choice, but I doubt TWI would publish it, she might have to self publish the material but I suspect she would sanitise it.
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T-Bone
Thanks Thomas & Don’t Worry,
Don’t know if it’s that I’m just getting older or it’s the way I deal with the PTSD of surviving a cult
but I have a hard time remembering a lot of details like that....either way - maybe it’s a blessing anyway. 
Edited by T-Bone“Accuracy “
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skyrider
Infoabsorption.............PFAL '77 was promoted as this "see Dr. Wierwille teach pfal LIVE."
This was the 10th anniversary of wierwille's "skinny-tie" class and many at hq believed that it was time to re-film pfal for marketing purposes and posterity. With new cameras to aid in best quality, the students were given instructions on dress code, being quiet......and when to applaud. Camera shots panned the audience at this class in Ball State University, Muncie Indiana and were to be included in this new class.
Every effort was made to ensure that Dr. Wierwille's "new foundational class" would be top quality. At age 60, many thought that this would be the last time wierwille would step up to the plate and teach this class live.
But when the class ended and the final product was taken back to hq and examined........it had several flaws in it. Also, the material, stories and "spontaneity of jokes" came off flat......definitely, didn't surpass the '67 class. From what I had heard......that was the gist of things. So, the '67 class was going to have to keep plugging along.......skinny tie and all. Others might be able to give you more details.
And, of course..................it was all hushed over. I mean, who wants to admit that "the man of gawd" failed to deliver a better product.
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DontWorryBeHappy
And, for a helluva lot more money too, Skyrider! They worked on that thing for over a year. Putting Rosie and Bob Winegarner in charge of the entire project is what sunk way Prod. Up until that point, Ted Ferrell was the Director of Way Prod nominally, but honestly, for the rest of us, the real "head" of Way Prod in the opinion of those of us in the cast, was Ken McCaw. Ken was a talented musician AND composer. He played several instruments (piano, bass, guitar, drums, plus more), read music and was able to score sheet music. He was our age, and he was respected because of his talent, ability, and, the fact that he was a genuinely nice person, made it an informal, yet very tight working arrangement.
But, once Rosie and Bob got dictor's ear, and kissed his ass long enough, through the garbage like the Victims (victors), and Braindead (Branded), High Country Caravan, and the other smarmy Oak Ridge Boys-Bill Gaither-Mills Brothers castor oil quality acts in the minds of those of us in the original Joyful Noise and Way Prod casts, way Prod was dead. Then, they sent them all on the field in 1977-1978.....THE very year that they killed way Prod with Rosie and Bob W. So, with all of the original way Prod/Joyful Noise cast out on the field, Rosie and Bobbie consolidated the creative and economic control of Way Prod for good with dictor's enthusiastic, self-serving "blessing". As soon as Piffle 77 was done, they were assigned to "put together" AC '79! And, the original cast and heart and soul of way prod/Joyful Noise was done. Finnegan briefly brought some independence and creativity back to way Prod when they brought JN back to HQ to do the Take A Shit Caravans. That was 1978-79. Later, when the Trunk was transferred to the third guy, the concept grew into the Outreach Weeks and Takit etc., beginning in the early spring of 1980. But, even during the Outreach Weeks, Rosie and Bobbie were responsible for the Saturday Night Concert and the Broadway-style show, "Arnie's Story", starring Joe Fair as Arnie and a number of HQ based actors and performers who came into the Outreach Cities on Fridays to prepare for the Saturday night productions. So, even though Takit and I were a self-contained unit on the way Prod coach, those Saturdays sometimes saw friction between what we "field" personnel wanted to do based on our entire week there, and what the HQ mucketty-mucks thought was "the best way to communicate Dr.Wierwille's heart". Sometimes the friction turned into outright animosity between myself and Rosie-Bob. And, dictor paul artfully played both ends against each other to enjoy his power to manipulate all of his keedz.
The bottom line is, beginning with Piffle '77, way Prod and everything in TWIt became ALL ABOUT DIC. That's what it was always all about, but PFAL '77 made it okay to do that publically without reserve, shame, or guilt. Now you may get an idea why I fought so hard to have my interim corpse assignment changed by VP himself.
It was the first time any corpse had an Interim year. My assignment was Way Productions/Joyful Noise, HQ. And THAT was the last place I wanted to be!! So, I immediately went over to vic's place after the announcement meeting at the SNS, and told him I could not stay at HQ. I wanted to "move the woid" on the field. So, my second assignment was Twig Coordinator, Asheville, NC. When Doug Emerson, limb dick of NC on his way into the First Special Corpse (Family Corpse 1), heard that he was getting Interim corpse to Western NC, he named it the Western Area and I became the 1st Western Area coordinator based out of Charlotte, instead of Asheville. That is when I officially left Way Prod. IMO, just in time!!..................peace.
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dmiller
Yes - - it was originally advertised and promoted as a re-filming for a "new and improved with a modern look to it" class for us to peddle to the masses. I also was there (I almost put the word "also" after the word "there" instead of "I", but caught myself in time in order to be correct according to Bullinger and the proper placement of the word "also"), and it was evident after just the first few minutes of session 1 - - that things were not going as planned. Docvic tried to recite all the lines verbatim from the original class, and he failed completely.
Edited by dmillerThe folks who were all attending PFAL 77, were staying in student dorms there on campus. We were all put into twigs according to our housing assignments and once the disaster of Day 1/ Session 1 of the event took place, it didn't take long at all for our twig leader to tell us that "things had changed" and that this class was no longer a re-filming to make over the class for all to see - - but that it was "just for us". I look back on that nowadays and think B as in B and S as in S - - but back then I bought the story hook, line, and sinker, even after seeing Docvic's PAINFUL attempt trying to "teach" that first day. My memory isn't as good as it was 30 years ago, but that there is what I remember of the "re-making" of PFAL in '77.
P.S. - - In each of our dorm rooms there was a Jade plant for us to take home, along with a 35th anniversary commemorative plate. The Jade plant supposedly signifies longevity. Well -- I brought mine home after the class, and it died long ago (just like my affiliation with twi). But I do still have the 35th anniversary plate.
Does anyone want it??
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skyrider
Now that you mention it........I do remember that.
"Things had changed" and this class was *just for us*..............TRANSLATION: Wierwille was not able to teach a LIVE CLASS. He didn't have a grasp of the scripture and materials that he had long plagiarized thru the years, nor did he function well under pressure. With cameras and lights and students in the room, wierwille couldn't have his Drambuie and drink it too. So, when wierwille eliminated the pressure of re-filming this LIVE for generations to come all the a/v pressures, camera angles and class parameters were diminished ...........and vpw could then, again, sip his Drambuie-coffee while sitting at his desk "teaching the class."
And further ......by 1977, things were a'changing in twi...........THAT'S FOR SURE.
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T-Bone
good point Skyrider
and that reminds me of one PFAL ‘77 session when he was going over one of his wooden phrases “things equal to the same thing are equal to each other” - when suddenly “rev” Bob M jumps up in the balcony (we were seated near him) - cups his hands around his mouth megaphone-style and yells “the transitive property of equality”...I can’t remember the reaction of wierwille on stage because I was awe struck - or maybe aghast
- that someone in the class would call out while “doctor” was teaching.
This goes to show you the students knew the material better than the “teacher” - if you want to call him that...he11, he couldn’t even be a substitute teacher...he would be the last resort if you’re short handed on substitute teachers - so you get the doofus who makes copies in the admin’s office figuring maybe he’ll at least be able to parrot some of the material that he copied and wing it to fill in the rest.
Formatting
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Grace Valerie Claire
David, and Sky, thanks for the information. Sky, it never dawned on me, that teaching a "live class" would be so hard for VPW. Gee, wasn't he "The Teacher?" Teachers teach "live classes" for years, and years. Most of the teachers I had were happy (I hope!) When I asked questions. I used to ask a lot of thoughtful(to me anyway) questions in various classes I took. Can you imagine someone asking VPW a question about the Bible?? He might not have been able to answer it; God forbid should he have said "I don't know?" I would have thought that VPW would have known that he wasn't capable of teaching a real class, and not pretended otherwise. Perhaps he realized during the filming of that class in 1977, that many students would see through his facade, and know that he ran a bogus Ministry, if he continued to film a live class.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I would think she might be forced to look deeply into her heart, and be forced to admit to herself that she has been living a sinful life for decades. She might be forced to examine her life, and realize that she is a total fraud. Wow! For her, that might be truly unbearable; she might not be capable of such a process.
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Rocky
Nice thought... but I doubt she'd ever do any of those things... short of a very major and meaningful to her "significant emotional event."
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, I think you are right; she probably won't do those things. But, speaking only for myself; I have had to look deeply into my heart, and I did not like what was there. I was willing to change what was there; not for me, but for God. Rosie may be willing to bulls$$t others, but she can't bulls$$t God. God will one day judge all of us for our actions, in this world. I want to go to God with as clean a slate as Humanly possible.
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krys
I believe Rocky is correct. I do not think the woman has the ability to recognize any sinful practice in her own life.
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