Sky, for some reason, 2005 sticks in my mind as to the year Mrs. W died. Perhaps, I am wrong.
Grace......you might be right. As I rethink the timeline of things, I think Mrs. W died 2004 or 2005.
Here on GSC, there were extensive discussions about her care.....and how Rosalie and board members moved her to nursing home. Many thought that she should have been able to stay in her own home with 24/7 nurses and healthcare professionals around her. The discussion escalated and even J.P. got involved with writing twi a lengthy letter.....and it got posted on GSC. Then, didn't Harve Plat1g as vp in twi post a one-time response?
See? For the first time, twi acknowledged gsc with a response.......it spoke volumes.
My observations about her reluctance to write this book in my commentary are before 1995. Not sure exactly how many years it took working on that but I think it was a slow process. She spent a lot of time with Coramae Peters and Bernita Jess around that time I recall. Those 3 would all organize an annual apple pie baking thing in the BRC that was loads of fun. And tasty.
I got the impression that there wasn't a lot of contact with daughters like Karen especially. Sara was around during that time but not as involved as she is the youngest.. I did think that Coramae helped Dotsie organize all her memorabilia as she was the librarian at the time and think her and Bernita probably helped her with the book.
Funny thing - it was published 1996 - but they had printed up a signature with Mrs. W's signature on something that looks like clear packing tape. So she didn't have to sign the books actually. Mine was attached upside down in the back. But don't tell anyone in the bookstore - they would probably make them run laps. LOL.
When Mrs Wierwille really started to lose her faculties she would wander off across grounds in the middle of the night only to be found by safety or others. The last time i saw her she was wslking out behind the EOB where she took a really hard fall. I saw it happen tended to her and radioed for help. Next thing i knew she was in a nursing home. TWI excuse was legally they could not provide medical care. Perhsps thats true, but i doubt they footed any bills either. The WW family handled things from there. I dont know all the behind the scenes details and neither do i want to. I really think that lady was victimized as much as anyone else. Although im sure she lived lavish while she could.
Sky, I didn't know VPW, or Mrs. W personally, but I did hear both of them teach live. IMO, Mrs. W was a far better teacher, than VPW. The few times I saw her at the ROA, she appeared to be well-groomed, and seemed like a sweet lady. I had far more regard for her, than I did for VPW; I thought she was a class act. Whereas, I thought VPW was boring, and dressed rather dowdy.
When Mrs Wierwille really started to lose her faculties she would wander off across grounds in the middle of the night only to be found by safety or others. The last time i saw her she was wslking out behind the EOB where she took a really hard fall. I saw it happen tended to her and radioed for help. Next thing i knew she was in a nursing home. TWI excuse was legally they could not provide medical care. Perhsps thats true, but i doubt they footed any bills either. The WW family handled things from there. I dont know all the behind the scenes details and neither do i want to. I really think that lady was victimized as much as anyone else. Although im sure she lived lavish while she could.
OS, I wonder what an attorney would say about providing for her medical care. I realize she has been dead for years, but I wonder about the older people in TWI. Who is going to provide for them, when they are too old to work? From what I have read here, at the GSC, TWI doesn't take very good care of their members in their golden years. I'm only 60, but I do have some resources; not many, but enough to live on.
My observations about her reluctance to write this book in my commentary are before 1995. Not sure exactly how many years it took working on that but I think it was a slow process. She spent a lot of time with Coramae Peters and Bernita Jess around that time I recall. Those 3 would all organize an annual apple pie baking thing in the BRC that was loads of fun. And tasty.
I got the impression that there wasn't a lot of contact with daughters like Karen especially. Sara was around during that time but not as involved as she is the youngest.. I did think that Coramae helped Dotsie organize all her memorabilia as she was the librarian at the time and think her and Bernita probably helped her with the book.
Chockfull, thanks........that sounds right.
Mrs. W's fingerprints are all over this book.......
Romantic gesture of receiving vic's fraternity pin as a gesture of our engagement......p.27
About six weeks later we eloped.....Vic was twenty (I was twenty-one).........p.27
Birth of our wonderful first child, Don.......on Sunday, August 11 (1940).........p.31
Special recognition and picture of Coramae Walter..........p. 50
Details throughout like.........Mary and I were returning home from the dentist.....p.87
Leaving baby J.P. at the Fischbachs before the India itinerary...........p. 116
Details of Don and Mary feeding pigeons in Trafalgar Square in England.....p.119
Lots of details about India host and family members.........p. 128
Etc. etc........................
Sprinkled throughout this book "on Dr. Wierwille's biography"..............is a woman's touch on impacting a family.
There is NO WAY that rozilla wrote this stuff.........I mean, c'mon.....just look at her "75th Greeting Letter"
Down through the years, from time to time, my children had to draw their savings from their anticipated future education out of the bank to get the current expenses paid. It hurts my personal pride to write this to you, but it's the truth. Don't you really feel that my children should not have to do this? Don't you think I ought to take care of my family? Don't I have even this right? Through the years The Way has helped many young men and women financially through The Way Student Aid Foundation, but not one penny has been offered to my son who is now in college preparing for the ministry, nor will I ever allow my son to receive one cent. But wouldn't you say that the people whose lives have been blessed by my ministry should see to it that my children have their savings restored?
.
OMG!!
I feel so bad. I need to go tell others to give to me so I can give to VPW so that he can give back to his own children what he took.
Because if others don't give it's literally crushing the soul of the greatest giver on Earth.
Somebody, not me, must do something.
Because that's how giving works. *thumps chest with pride*
Down through the years, from time to time, my children had to draw their savings from their anticipated future education out of the bank to get the current expenses paid. It hurts my personal pride to write this to you, but it's the truth. Don't you really feel that my children should not have to do this? Don't you think I ought to take care of my family? Don't I have even this right? Through the years The Way has helped many young men and women financially through The Way Student Aid Foundation, but not one penny has been offered to my son who is now in college preparing for the ministry, nor will I ever allow my son to receive one cent. But wouldn't you say that the people whose lives have been blessed by my ministry should see to it that my children have their savings restored?
yeah, right. not one red cent... ever.
phffftttt.....
isn't it fairly common knowledge that (in vpw's own words) TWI "bought Donnie his doctorate"?
The reason for this thread is to point out the blatant lies stemming from headquarters.
Mr. Wierwille stated that he began "the way ministry" with the first broadcast of Vesper Chimes: October 3, 1942
OR
Mrs. Wierwille stated in her book that twi and "A New Headquarters" began at 649 S. Washington Street: December 19, 1957
What were the "advantages" for slick-vic to LIE about his organization's beginnings?
First and foremost, it put DISTANCE between him and B.G. Leonard's foundational class and class-based ministry....... clearly, from the timeline and content it is easy to see that vic plagiarized the class wholesale and ran with it in October 1953.
So, why wasn't the starting date in October 1953? LOL.........Now, that would have been too obvious tying it to Leonard. That's why wierwille had to reach back to the ridiculous "vesper chimes" youth broadcast to make his claim.
Young vic had a narcissistic personality disorder that needed fed with admiration and adulation. It wasn't enough just to start something new.......it had to be proclaimed best in every way. Even though it swayed many youth, most of the adult crowd shrugged and left after taking this class.
Contrived and manufactured accounting to *build his reputation*............snow on gas pumps, audible voice, black heart/white heart revelation, and the vesper chimes broadcast as anniversary date. Fabrications that fed the narcissist and his pathologies.
And, mrs. wierwille the dutiful wife stayed silent and played along with this charade.......until after he was dead.
Then, she set the record straight on the anniversary date .................at least.
yeah, right. not one red cent... ever.
phffftttt.....
isn't it fairly common knowledge that (in vpw's own words) TWI "bought Donnie his doctorate"?
Yes. Then again, vpw claimed that he'd never taken an aspirin in his life and hadn't taken a sick day in his life- and that was in private! So, small wonder he lied about money.
Do you think it was all about covering his tracks? I think it totally was about covering his tracks, but I also think, having seen his comments when he was alone- that vpw even convinced HIMSELF that all of that was connected- that he really convinced himself of his hearing voices and seeing imaginary snowstorms- and didn't really remember that without Leonard, there would have been no class at all. I think he overwrote his own memory, making it easier to lie to others because that's how he actually remembered it. This also benefited the narcissist because he was able to convince HIMSELF he was some great one, which is one thing he wanted all along!
Do you think it was all about covering his tracks? I think it totally was about covering his tracks, but I also think, having seen his comments when he was alone- that vpw even convinced HIMSELF that all of that was connected- that he really convinced himself of his hearing voices and seeing imaginary snowstorms- and didn't really remember that without Leonard, there would have been no class at all. I think he overwrote his own memory, making it easier to lie to others because that's how he actually remembered it. This also benefited the narcissist because he was able to convince HIMSELF he was some great one, which is one thing he wanted all along!
Yup...that’s the “magic of believing”....holy cow - he did practice what he preached !
Your post has got my imagination fired up now; wierwille could have used the Jason Bourne excuse - adapted to vpw - “I have all these ideas of how to interpret the Bible, how to teach the Holy Spirit field and phenomenal events - I just don’t remember how I got them.”
yeah Jason Bourne is a fictitious character with a good heart...
wierwille ...a real” character “ alright with ficticious importance in a crummy heart.
Edited by T-Bone First the book, then the movie, then comes action figures
Young vic had a narcissistic personality disorder that needed fed with admiration and adulation. It wasn't enough just to start something new.......it had to be proclaimed best in every way. Even though it swayed many youth, most of the adult crowd shrugged and left after taking this class.
2 hours ago, WordWolf said:
Do you think it was all about covering his tracks? I think it totally was about covering his tracks, but I also think, having seen his comments when he was alone- that vpw even convinced HIMSELF that all of that was connected- that he really convinced himself of his hearing voices and seeing imaginary snowstorms- and didn't really remember that without Leonard, there would have been no class at all. I think he overwrote his own memory, making it easier to lie to others because that's how he actually remembered it. This also benefited the narcissist because he was able to convince HIMSELF he was some great one, which is one thing he wanted all along!
Is one exclusive of the other? I mean, since wierwille was affected with a narcissistic personality disorder THAT was the conduit for his actions. Whether one labels it as he "convinced himself" or "believed to be some great one".........that is not exclusionary or an aside. NPR is the core element....................
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.........[according to Wikipedia]
Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
Needing constant admiration from others
Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
Is one exclusive of the other? I mean, since wierwille was affected with a narcissistic personality disorder THAT was the conduit for his actions. Whether one labels it as he "convinced himself" or "believed to be some great one".........that is not exclusionary or an aside. NPR is the core element....................
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.........[according to Wikipedia]
Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
Needing constant admiration from others
Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
Pompous and arrogant demeanor
36 minutes ago, skyrider said:
There's your............ ALL NINE ALL THE TIME
Ya know if I ever run an advanced class I am going to relegate all that to the junk table
Do you think it was all about covering his tracks? I think it totally was about covering his tracks, but I also think, having seen his comments when he was alone- that vpw even convinced HIMSELF that all of that was connected- that he really convinced himself of his hearing voices and seeing imaginary snowstorms- and didn't really remember that without Leonard, there would have been no class at all. I think he overwrote his own memory, making it easier to lie to others because that's how he actually remembered it. This also benefited the narcissist because he was able to convince HIMSELF he was some great one, which is one thing he wanted all along!
There's current literature about a prominent American politician that describes Malignant Narcissism in exquisite detail. That book ALSO (who gives a $hit about Bullinger) is an apropos character study about a cult leader most (if not all) of us at one point had fallen under the influence of. If you are interested in the title of the book, PM me... it's a Dangerous Case...
My point in mentioning this in response to WW's quoted comment is that it's likely Dictor didn't necessarily have to consciously convince himself of anything in order to come up with the delusions at issue.
On 10/25/2017 at 12:45 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:
I wish she had done this earlier and done a follow-up volume 2 going from the interaction with the Jesus People in late 60'sup to VPW going to Scotland to visit Geer(without Passing of the Patriarch crap)and I don't care if daughter Karen had to publish this independently and privately instead of American Christian Press/TWI's involement.
Victor Paul Wierwille lied about the date of The Way International's founding.
Dorothea Kipp Wierwille denied that date and told us the true date of TWI's founding.
The first Sunday of October has always been twi's celebration of their "Anniversary Weekend".......but when one reads Mrs. Wierwille's book, the anniversary was NOT in October and NOT in 1942.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Page 219 in Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, quote.....
"We began our independent undertaking by having meetings in this Washington Street home on Thursday evenings and late Sunday afternoons. The first Thursday evening fellowship was held on December 19, and the first Sunday meeting, on December 29, 1957."
So, who you going to believe? Victor Paul Wierwille or Dorothea Kipp Wierwille?
To look at the Vesper Chimes broadcast as twi's beginning when wierwille was a pastor at St. Jacob's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Payne, Ohio stretches credulity to the limit. In no way, shape or manner did victor paul wierwille have any inkling of a "class-based, independent ministry" in 1942. Wierwille was rooted in the denominational structure of the church......and by listening to Rev. Fuller's radio broadcast each week, wierwille crafted this plagiarist path to get his voice heard to a wider audience. No revelation from above. No originality. Just wierwille studying the religious landscape to up his influence.
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skyrider
What were the "advantages" for slick-vic to LIE about his organization's beginnings? First and foremost, it put DISTANCE between him and B.G. Leonard's foundational class and class-based minist
skyrider
There's your............ ALL NINE ALL THE TIME
DontWorryBeHappy
Sheesh! So much motivation by guilt and the logical fallacy of false equivalence! "MY Ministry", eh? Thanks for posting Sky! Never saw this before. Saw the resignation letter and the back-and-forth be
skyrider
Grace......you might be right. As I rethink the timeline of things, I think Mrs. W died 2004 or 2005.
Here on GSC, there were extensive discussions about her care.....and how Rosalie and board members moved her to nursing home. Many thought that she should have been able to stay in her own home with 24/7 nurses and healthcare professionals around her. The discussion escalated and even J.P. got involved with writing twi a lengthy letter.....and it got posted on GSC. Then, didn't Harve Plat1g as vp in twi post a one-time response?
See? For the first time, twi acknowledged gsc with a response.......it spoke volumes.
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OldSkool
Mrs. Wierwille passed away September of 2005. I helped dig her grave next to vic and was a pallbearer.
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chockfull
My observations about her reluctance to write this book in my commentary are before 1995. Not sure exactly how many years it took working on that but I think it was a slow process. She spent a lot of time with Coramae Peters and Bernita Jess around that time I recall. Those 3 would all organize an annual apple pie baking thing in the BRC that was loads of fun. And tasty.
I got the impression that there wasn't a lot of contact with daughters like Karen especially. Sara was around during that time but not as involved as she is the youngest.. I did think that Coramae helped Dotsie organize all her memorabilia as she was the librarian at the time and think her and Bernita probably helped her with the book.
Funny thing - it was published 1996 - but they had printed up a signature with Mrs. W's signature on something that looks like clear packing tape. So she didn't have to sign the books actually. Mine was attached upside down in the back. But don't tell anyone in the bookstore - they would probably make them run laps. LOL.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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skyrider
Yep.......September 1, 2005 ..... to be exact.
In Memorium Forum..........duh (head slap) Dorothea Kipp Wierwille
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OldSkool
When Mrs Wierwille really started to lose her faculties she would wander off across grounds in the middle of the night only to be found by safety or others. The last time i saw her she was wslking out behind the EOB where she took a really hard fall. I saw it happen tended to her and radioed for help. Next thing i knew she was in a nursing home. TWI excuse was legally they could not provide medical care. Perhsps thats true, but i doubt they footed any bills either. The WW family handled things from there. I dont know all the behind the scenes details and neither do i want to. I really think that lady was victimized as much as anyone else. Although im sure she lived lavish while she could.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I didn't know VPW, or Mrs. W personally, but I did hear both of them teach live. IMO, Mrs. W was a far better teacher, than VPW. The few times I saw her at the ROA, she appeared to be well-groomed, and seemed like a sweet lady. I had far more regard for her, than I did for VPW; I thought she was a class act. Whereas, I thought VPW was boring, and dressed rather dowdy.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, I wonder what an attorney would say about providing for her medical care. I realize she has been dead for years, but I wonder about the older people in TWI. Who is going to provide for them, when they are too old to work? From what I have read here, at the GSC, TWI doesn't take very good care of their members in their golden years. I'm only 60, but I do have some resources; not many, but enough to live on.
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skyrider
Chockfull, thanks........that sounds right.
Mrs. W's fingerprints are all over this book.......
Sprinkled throughout this book "on Dr. Wierwille's biography"..............is a woman's touch on impacting a family.
There is NO WAY that rozilla wrote this stuff.........I mean, c'mon.....just look at her "75th Greeting Letter"
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
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Bolshevik
OMG!!
I feel so bad. I need to go tell others to give to me so I can give to VPW so that he can give back to his own children what he took.
Because if others don't give it's literally crushing the soul of the greatest giver on Earth.
Somebody, not me, must do something.
Because that's how giving works. *thumps chest with pride*
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T-Bone
Yeah wierwille’s interpretation of Luke 6 = as you give I shall receive
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TLC
yeah, right. not one red cent... ever.
phffftttt.....
isn't it fairly common knowledge that (in vpw's own words) TWI "bought Donnie his doctorate"?
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skyrider
What were the "advantages" for slick-vic to LIE about his organization's beginnings?
Then, she set the record straight on the anniversary date .................at least.
.
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T-Bone
Excellent post Skyrider !
your thoughts make perfect sense to me!
a cunning way for that old plagiarist to hide his tracks!
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WordWolf
Yes. Then again, vpw claimed that he'd never taken an aspirin in his life and hadn't taken a sick day in his life- and that was in private! So, small wonder he lied about money.
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WordWolf
Do you think it was all about covering his tracks? I think it totally was about covering his tracks, but I also think, having seen his comments when he was alone- that vpw even convinced HIMSELF that all of that was connected- that he really convinced himself of his hearing voices and seeing imaginary snowstorms- and didn't really remember that without Leonard, there would have been no class at all. I think he overwrote his own memory, making it easier to lie to others because that's how he actually remembered it. This also benefited the narcissist because he was able to convince HIMSELF he was some great one, which is one thing he wanted all along!
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T-Bone
Yup...that’s the “magic of believing”....holy cow - he did practice what he preached !
remember class, believing equals perceiving
Edited by T-BoneAfter thought
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T-Bone
Ya know WordWolf
Your post has got my imagination fired up now; wierwille could have used the Jason Bourne excuse - adapted to vpw - “I have all these ideas of how to interpret the Bible, how to teach the Holy Spirit field and phenomenal events - I just don’t remember how I got them.”
yeah Jason Bourne is a fictitious character with a good heart...
wierwille ...a real” character “ alright with ficticious importance in a crummy heart.
Edited by T-BoneFirst the book, then the movie, then comes action figures
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skyrider
Is one exclusive of the other? I mean, since wierwille was affected with a narcissistic personality disorder THAT was the conduit for his actions. Whether one labels it as he "convinced himself" or "believed to be some great one".........that is not exclusionary or an aside. NPR is the core element....................
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.........[according to Wikipedia]
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skyrider
There's your............ ALL NINE ALL THE TIME
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T-Bone
Ya know if I ever run an advanced class I am going to relegate all that to the junk table
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Rocky
There's current literature about a prominent American politician that describes Malignant Narcissism in exquisite detail. That book ALSO (who gives a $hit about Bullinger) is an apropos character study about a cult leader most (if not all) of us at one point had fallen under the influence of. If you are interested in the title of the book, PM me... it's a Dangerous Case...
My point in mentioning this in response to WW's quoted comment is that it's likely Dictor didn't necessarily have to consciously convince himself of anything in order to come up with the delusions at issue.
Edited by Rockyclarification
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TLC
To a certain degree, sure, but not "all." For if he was some great (spiritual) one, God would cover for him, right? ('til He didn't.)
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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skyrider
Bump
Victor Paul Wierwille lied about the date of The Way International's founding.
Dorothea Kipp Wierwille denied that date and told us the true date of TWI's founding.
The first Sunday of October has always been twi's celebration of their "Anniversary Weekend".......but when one reads Mrs. Wierwille's book, the anniversary was NOT in October and NOT in 1942.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Page 219 in Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, quote.....
So, who you going to believe? Victor Paul Wierwille or Dorothea Kipp Wierwille?
To look at the Vesper Chimes broadcast as twi's beginning when wierwille was a pastor at St. Jacob's Evangelical and Reformed Church in Payne, Ohio stretches credulity to the limit. In no way, shape or manner did victor paul wierwille have any inkling of a "class-based, independent ministry" in 1942. Wierwille was rooted in the denominational structure of the church......and by listening to Rev. Fuller's radio broadcast each week, wierwille crafted this plagiarist path to get his voice heard to a wider audience. No revelation from above. No originality. Just wierwille studying the religious landscape to up his influence.
.
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