I don't recall hearing the term "mental consent" outside of TWI. That is why I thought it might be considered Wayspeak, which I try to avoid here in order to keep the peace. Maybe it is a term used outside of the way, I just don't remember having heard it anywhere else.
I think you are right. Once something is in our minds, it's pretty much there. Still, God does talk about renewed mind, so there is something there to consider.
In this dualistic world of ours getting rid of darkness would also get rid of light. In a sense, our human brains are nothing more than contrast registering machines. If everything in this world was white, we wouldn't see anything. If there were only one audio tone we wouldn't hear anything. If there was only one constant temperature, we wouldn't feel anything. Our minds need contrast to register anything from the outside world. That is why we really can't grasp God. He is one, but our minds need two. I wonder what it will be like to shed that duality and truly see all members of Christ's body as one and not me, you, T-Bone, Wordwolfe etc. Even DWBH and I will be as one. Hope that doesn't bum him out too much! I doubt it. He'll be fine with it when the time comes.
Something like hunger. The drive to seek food. One of the multitude of processes that drive our thinking, it's there from the beginning. Not "put" there. Any number of systems can compete for "dominance" at any moment. It's why the mind can be thought of as a committee. Intuition being "decision" of the committee. (no just contrast machines)
In twi the renewed mind was a way of replacing thoughts with someone else's. To come to conclusions based on those thoughts. I would not agree the Bible's reference to the renewed mind and what was done in twi was the same.
If one is going to plagiarize the plagiarizer, then that one ought to at least have the "alacrity of mind" to do so accurately, or, at the very least, correctly. Along with the inordinate number of baseless wierwillean platitudes, and the complete lack of any evidence, scriptural or otherwise, some post their regurgitated Wierwille-ized unbiblical disinformation as if it as true as Einstein's General Theory of Relativity! Then, when completely incredulous and demonstrably ignorant statements regarding "chemical imbalances" and treating them with man-made chemicals are proffered as if they carry even a featherweight of educated relevance, the complete imbecility of these unprovable, platitudinal, OPINIONS becomes horrifically blatant.
The dictor paul term "mental ASSENT" has been erroneously quoted or referenced as "mental consent". Sorry.....but it's just as much mental masturbatory BS as the original term dictor paul invented. What is demonstrated to me by such mindless, reflexive "intellectual" crutches, used habitually without critical thought to "prove" non-existent "biblical principles", exhibits a complete intellectual laziness accompanied by a total lack of critical review and objective counterpoint. You can take the vegetable out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the vegetable. LOL!
My recommendation to the intellectually challenged wierwille apologists, is to first, get an identity other than the one dic manufactured for you in TWIt. And, secondly, stop choosing to stay stuck on stupid for the rest of your life. It is insulting to any ex-Wayfer to be lectured by any other ex-wayfers on how much we need to continue to delude ourselves and others with the ridiculously outdated and disproven "teachings and research" of dictor paul. He was a deranged, perverted, malignant, paranoid narcissist. Get over those FACTS, accept them, and then you may begin to uncork your cranium from dic's rectum. TTFN.
...., T-Bone, Wordwolfe etc. Even DWBH and I will be as one. Hope that doesn't bum him out too much! I doubt it. He'll be fine with it when the time comes.
Do the math
2 hours ago, rrobs said:
Where did quadruplex come up? Beyond mystifying to me.
The dictor paul term "mental ASSENT" has been erroneously quoted or referenced as "mental consent". Sorry.....but it's just as much mental masturbatory BS as the original term dictor paul invented. What is demonstrated to me by such mindless, reflexive "intellectual" crutches, used habitually without critical thought to "prove" non-existent "biblical principles", exhibits a complete intellectual laziness accompanied by a total lack of critical review and objective counterpoint. You can take the vegetable out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the vegetable. LOL!
. . .
total lol
ASSENT
Thank you for clarifying. Make a lot more sense. More ego inflating.
Something like hunger. The drive to seek food. One of the multitude of processes that drive our thinking, it's there from the beginning. Not "put" there. Any number of systems can compete for "dominance" at any moment. It's why the mind can be thought of as a committee. Intuition being "decision" of the committee. (no just contrast machines)
In twi the renewed mind was a way of replacing thoughts with someone else's. To come to conclusions based on those thoughts. I would not agree the Bible's reference to the renewed mind and what was done in twi was the same.
Every system is still composed of dualities. The committee can only think of "this" or "that" when making decisions. The universe was (became, whatever) without form and void. Effectively there was nothing for a mind like ours to grasp onto. Then God made light and darkness. From there the rest came. In Taoism (as cosmology, not philosophy or religion) the state before the material universe was called tao. It also formless, therefore effectively there was nothing to see, hear, smell, etc. It was without form and void. Then the tao "moved" and yin and yang separated. The one became two. It then says that the two became three and the three became 10,000 things which was an idiom meaning infinity. So man registers the yin and the yang and makes some conclusion about the myriad things that compose our "reality."
White is yang, black is yin. My mind registers the amount of yang/white and yin/black and then it can see the sky (light, yang) as a separate thing as the ground (black, yin). But if there was no white then there would be no black. Your mind could not make a determination in that case as to where the sky started and where the earth started. In other words, there would be no horizon to see.
That is what taoism says about our reality. I'm not asking you to believe this. I'm not even saying I believe it, but there are some interesting parallels there with the Bible. Both Eastern thought, so maybe no surprise.
If one is going to plagiarize the plagiarizer, then that one ought to at least have the "alacrity of mind" to do so accurately, or, at the very least, correctly. Along with the inordinate number of baseless wierwillean platitudes, and the complete lack of any evidence, scriptural or otherwise, some post their regurgitated Wierwille-ized unbiblical disinformation as if it as true as Einstein's General Theory of Relativity! Then, when completely incredulous and demonstrably ignorant statements regarding "chemical imbalances" and treating them with man-made chemicals are proffered as if they carry even a featherweight of educated relevance, the complete imbecility of these unprovable, platitudinal, OPINIONS becomes horrifically blatant.
The dictor paul term "mental ASSENT" has been erroneously quoted or referenced as "mental consent". Sorry.....but it's just as much mental masturbatory BS as the original term dictor paul invented. What is demonstrated to me by such mindless, reflexive "intellectual" crutches, used habitually without critical thought to "prove" non-existent "biblical principles", exhibits a complete intellectual laziness accompanied by a total lack of critical review and objective counterpoint. You can take the vegetable out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the vegetable. LOL!
My recommendation to the intellectually challenged wierwille apologists, is to first, get an identity other than the one dic manufactured for you in TWIt. And, secondly, stop choosing to stay stuck on stupid for the rest of your life. It is insulting to any ex-Wayfer to be lectured by any other ex-wayfers on how much we need to continue to delude ourselves and others with the ridiculously outdated and disproven "teachings and research" of dictor paul. He was a deranged, perverted, malignant, paranoid narcissist. Get over those FACTS, accept them, and then you may begin to uncork your cranium from dic's rectum. TTFN.
Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac, you might consider this
Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac, you might consider this
It's kind of a stretch to suggest that a MOOC on Global (anything, let alone...) Diplomacy relates at all to a discussion on an obscure cult escapees' forum about the role of the Bible in societal mental health. Btw, "Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac..." does boil down to name calling.
If one is going to plagiarize the plagiarizer, then that one ought to at least have the "alacrity of mind" to do so accurately, or, at the very least, correctly. Along with the inordinate number of baseless wierwillean platitudes, and the complete lack of any evidence, scriptural or otherwise, some post their regurgitated Wierwille-ized unbiblical disinformation as if it as true as Einstein's General Theory of Relativity! Then, when completely incredulous and demonstrably ignorant statements regarding "chemical imbalances" and treating them with man-made chemicals are proffered as if they carry even a featherweight of educated relevance, the complete imbecility of these unprovable, platitudinal, OPINIONS becomes horrifically blatant.
The dictor paul term "mental ASSENT" has been erroneously quoted or referenced as "mental consent". Sorry.....but it's just as much mental masturbatory BS as the original term dictor paul invented. What is demonstrated to me by such mindless, reflexive "intellectual" crutches, used habitually without critical thought to "prove" non-existent "biblical principles", exhibits a complete intellectual laziness accompanied by a total lack of critical review and objective counterpoint. You can take the vegetable out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the vegetable. LOL!
My recommendation to the intellectually challenged wierwille apologists, is to first, get an identity other than the one dic manufactured for you in TWIt. And, secondly, stop choosing to stay stuck on stupid for the rest of your life. It is insulting to any ex-Wayfer to be lectured by any other ex-wayfers on how much we need to continue to delude ourselves and others with the ridiculously outdated and disproven "teachings and research" of dictor paul. He was a deranged, perverted, malignant, paranoid narcissist. Get over those FACTS, accept them, and then you may begin to uncork your cranium from dic's rectum. TTFN.
Don’t Worry,
great post and thanks for addressing the error; I’m reminded of the movie Multiplicity - a sci-fi comedy with Michael Keaton feeling overwhelmed in life volunteers to be cloned. Michael likes the advantages of having two of him to handle life - so he clones the clone - but with each cloning there is a degradation of quality in the latest edition of himself.
but copying wierwille’s theology is not funny - because the “original “ is not benign . Using wierwille’s theology is more like a sci-fi / horror movie like Alien or Species - where an already insidious “lifeform” is experimented with or mutates.
Every system is still composed of dualities. The committee can only think of "this" or "that" when making decisions. The universe was (became, whatever) without form and void. Effectively there was nothing for a mind like ours to grasp onto. Then God made light and darkness. From there the rest came. In Taoism (as cosmology, not philosophy or religion) the state before the material universe was called tao. It also formless, therefore effectively there was nothing to see, hear, smell, etc. It was without form and void. Then the tao "moved" and yin and yang separated. The one became two. It then says that the two became three and the three became 10,000 things which was an idiom meaning infinity. So man registers the yin and the yang and makes some conclusion about the myriad things that compose our "reality."
White is yang, black is yin. My mind registers the amount of yang/white and yin/black and then it can see the sky (light, yang) as a separate thing as the ground (black, yin). But if there was no white then there would be no black. Your mind could not make a determination in that case as to where the sky started and where the earth started. In other words, there would be no horizon to see.
That is what taoism says about our reality. I'm not asking you to believe this. I'm not even saying I believe it, but there are some interesting parallels there with the Bible. Both Eastern thought, so maybe no surprise.
I'm not sure I agree with your first few sentences. I think there's some interesting ideas in there though.
Again you've reduced everything to a duality. Three seems to fit better, as a simplification. IMO.
Even the yin and yang has an interface. The third.
Thanks, DWBH, I didn't realize my information on chemical imbalances is so antiquated. I really need to spend some time getting better informed and up to date.
Anyhow, the point I was attempting to make is that the TWI method of "in go the good thoughts/out go the bad" is much too simplistic to address the complexity of an issue as enigmatic as mental illness.
Thanks, DWBH, I didn't realize my information on chemical imbalances is so antiquated. I really need to spend some time getting better informed and up to date.
Anyhow, the point I was attempting to make is that the TWI method of "in go the good thoughts/out go the bad" is much too simplistic to address the complexity of an issue as enigmatic as mental illness.
Yeah some of that is so laughable if it weren’t for the fact that TWI’s method might tend to make matters worse for someone with mental illness....makes me think of that old SNL skit with Steve Martin as Theodoric of York who’s cure for everything was a little blood-letting.
i did not mean to be so "verbally" condescending as I perhaps was, in my statements regarding the "chemical imbalances" you referred to. It just happens to be a Nusing Certification I used daily for years.....Nursing Pharmacology.....and, there are not only many misconceptions about medication selection and administration in times past, but, the incredible advances made in the last 20 years in medical and technological research have produced amazing and reproduceable results at a rate almost as fast as the high-tech industry itself! This makes the number of treatment modalities expand geometrically, and new medications as well as new categories of medications are popping up like crazy. This is why I am so disheartened by "Big Pharma". They are sitting on a lot of great new treatments just to squeeze out every last possible dollar they can IMO.
The implications and prognosis for future beneficial use of new medications discovered with the latest technological aids and the brightest research minds, are enormous. The understanding of biology, physiology, and electrochemistry at the quantum level literally has made "all things possible"! Imagine 3D printing of human organs developed from the patient's very own individual genome allowing for transplants with absolutely no risk of rejection! This has already taken place at the animal level.....mice, pigs, sheep. The understanding of biochemical interaction at the quantum level has made the understanding of "chemical imbalances" far more detailed and holistic. Medications are now being designed from the patient's own genome and antigens genetically specific by it. Cancer chemotherapeutic agents are now being produced on an individual basis for each patient. Results are showing wonderful results and promising new treatment modalities. The knowledge is expanding exponentially every year. So, it is an extremely hopeful and exciting time not only for development of medications and treatments for the physiological killers like cancers and retroviruses, but also for the tormentors of the soul like psychiatric and social anxiety disorders. Sorry for the pedantic lecture, but I did not want to offend you in any way, so I tried to explain myself fully. Love ya bruddah!
We have nurses in our family. At family gatherings, they inevitably wind up in a huddle, deeply engrossed in shop talk. You would think I would listen in and learn a thing or two. Nope. I've learned to tune it out after 35 years.
i did not mean to be so "verbally" condescending as I perhaps was, in my statements regarding the "chemical imbalances" you referred to. It just happens to be a Nusing Certification I used daily for years.....Nursing Pharmacology.....and, there are not only many misconceptions about medication selection and administration in times past, but, the incredible advances made in the last 20 years in medical and technological research have produced amazing and reproduceable results at a rate almost as fast as the high-tech industry itself! This makes the number of treatment modalities expand geometrically, and new medications as well as new categories of medications are popping up like crazy. This is why I am so disheartened by "Big Pharma". They are sitting on a lot of great new treatments just to squeeze out every last possible dollar they can IMO.
The implications and prognosis for future beneficial use of new medications discovered with the latest technological aids and the brightest research minds, are enormous. The understanding of biology, physiology, and electrochemistry at the quantum level literally has made "all things possible"! Imagine 3D printing of human organs developed from the patient's very own individual genome allowing for transplants with absolutely no risk of rejection! This has already taken place at the animal level.....mice, pigs, sheep. The understanding of biochemical interaction at the quantum level has made the understanding of "chemical imbalances" far more detailed and holistic. Medications are now being designed from the patient's own genome and antigens genetically specific by it. Cancer chemotherapeutic agents are now being produced on an individual basis for each patient. Results are showing wonderful results and promising new treatment modalities. The knowledge is expanding exponentially every year. So, it is an extremely hopeful and exciting time not only for development of medications and treatments for the physiological killers like cancers and retroviruses, but also for the tormentors of the soul like psychiatric and social anxiety disorders. Sorry for the pedantic lecture, but I did not want to offend you in any way, so I tried to explain myself fully. Love ya bruddah!
36 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs
Not to say you are wrong, but that's a lot of dead people because drugs apparently don't always work. The shooters in this article are ones whose drug information was available. I'd be surprised if many other shooters weren't also on psychiatric drugs. But I don't have any actual facts on that (too lazy and not that important to me), so don't quote me.
36 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs
Not to say you are wrong, but that's a lot of dead people because drugs apparently don't always work. The shooters in this article are ones whose drug information was available. I'd be surprised if many other shooters weren't also on psychiatric drugs. But I don't have any actual facts on that (too lazy and not that important to me), so don't quote me.
I’m not saying you’ve made a rush to judgment – but the opening paragraph of the article in your link ( school shootings ) makes me think there’s a lot more to it:
“Fact: At least 36 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs”
It says those acts committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs. An operative word in their fact being “withdrawing” (which was even italicized in the article) – suggests to me that perhaps in some cases the prescribed drugs were working until the individual stopped taking them or in some way deviated from the physicians directives. I think a lot more info and details are needed – which even this article suggests at the end by giving a link to a related article:
“Fact: Despite 27 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.”
I’m not a medical professional or anything that qualifies me to address this topic – but my curious mind wants to look at the bigger picture – like maybe what are the contributing factors to acts of violence committed by individuals with known mental health issues - and who knows... if warranted, sometimes federal investigations do broaden the scope of their systematic examination. Perhaps it would clarify issues related to the side effects of certain drugs but also issues related to a patient who stops taking the prescription or not following directives or a doctor's regimen, what are the current treatments for specific mental health issues and how effective are they... and I'm sure there's a lot of other things to consider - - because people are complex as well as each being a unique individual.
not only that...but if the pace of advancements / improvements in the medical world are anything like in other technical fields - things are changing all the time.
Robson......how dumb do you think we are??? You sir, are a moron, imo.
"How CCHR Was Established: CCHR was co-founded as an independent mental health watchdog in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus Dr. Thomas Szasz at a time when patients were being warehoused in institutions, abused, stripped of their constitutional, civil and human rights, and left without recourse."
So, use one destructive fascist cult to validate the beliefs of another??? The "Church" of Scientology doesn't "have any actual facts" about ANYTHING with any hint of science or evidence to back up L. Ron Hubbard's personal hatred for ALL things "psychiatric" or "psychological". Of all the "beaucoup hits" you pick the most abjectly insane one of them all. Zero clinical evidence. No clinical trial results. No clinical test results. No peer review. Just Scientologist propaganda. They're just as "lazy" as YOU as far as thinking "actual facts" matter in medical science, since their entire field was "born in a seance" according to your moggie dictor paul. That is why the evidence overwhelmingly points to you being an uneducated, misguided, and biased moron to post something from CCHR as presenting anything of any veracity containing "actual facts" regarding fields they blatantly disdain, discount, disrespect, despise, and literally HATE. Dude! What drugs are YOU on??
Robson......how dumb do you think we are??? You sir, are a moron, imo.
"How CCHR Was Established: CCHR was co-founded as an independent mental health watchdog in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus Dr. Thomas Szasz at a time when patients were being warehoused in institutions, abused, stripped of their constitutional, civil and human rights, and left without recourse."
So, use one destructive fascist cult to validate the beliefs of another??? The "Church" of Scientology doesn't "have any actual facts" about ANYTHING with any hint of science or evidence to back up L. Ron Hubbard's personal hatred for ALL things "psychiatric" or "psychological". Of all the "beaucoup hits" you pick the most abjectly insane one of them all. Zero clinical evidence. No clinical trial results. No clinical test results. No peer review. Just Scientologist propaganda. They're just as "lazy" as YOU as far as thinking "actual facts" matter in medical science, since their entire field was "born in a seance" according to your moggie dictor paul. That is why the evidence overwhelmingly points to you being an uneducated, misguided, and biased moron to post something from CCHR as presenting anything of any veracity containing "actual facts" regarding fields they blatantly disdain, discount, disrespect, despise, and literally HATE. Dude! What drugs are YOU on??
In Going Clear, on pages 180 – 182, author Lawrence Wright gets into how Scientologist founder Hubbard became fascinated with mind control – so much so, that some former Scientologists refer to a pamphlet that Hubbard supposedly wrote called “Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics” – as a codex for Hubbard’s grand scheme - and that “there is an eerie mirroring of the techniques described in the pamphlet and some Scientology practices, especially those put into effect in the RFP.” The RFP is Scientology’s Rehabilitation Project Force
“Coincidentally” there’s been a few discussions here on Grease Spot that get into the similarities of the methods of Scientology and The Way International… “Great” cult-leaders think alike, I guess…wierwille liked to disparage psychiatry and such related fields…
I remember on more than one occasion he’d talk along the lines of having a sound mind according to “the word” versus how the world defines sanity…he’d brag about how he wouldn’t be able to pass a psychological evaluation test because the world’s standards for a sound mind differ from that of “The Word's" standards.... Yeah - i gotta admit I would agree with him knowing what I know now – I’ll bet he never could have passed a psychological evaluation test – with all the issues he had.
I've been out of the discussion for a while, but I've a few things to say now.
First of all, reducing EVERYTHING to dualities and polarizing them is bad. There are many issues where the extremes are wrong and the truth is in the middle. We've touched on a few here.
Concerning the twi approach to Psychology and Psychiatry, there's at least 2 problems with it. One, inadequate preparation for even basic first aid. They had a person have some sort of episode, and the response was neither "give medical attention" nor "get him to the hospital and let THEM give medical attention." This was never corrected with a medical contingency for when hundreds of people lived on grounds. The second thing was that all the actual "psychology" the did was neither TRAINED nor COMPREHENSIVE. It was the result of READING A SINGLE BOOK- Jay Adams' "Competent to Counsel", and that was the entirety of their preparation. Now, his "nouthetic" technique, IMHO, would work well for certain people, less well for certain other people, and horrendously for everyone with an actual physical problem. Counseling someone for a chemical imbalance is like counseling someone for a broken arm. Now, if they're given the right chemicals, THEN some counseling might be of great use. However, treating them without the medication is as effective as treating ANYTHING and leaving out the necessary medication. twi's method is lazy, ineffective, and criminally negligent.
It is true that the other extreme is equally bad- just dumping chemicals on people and sending them off. Many people seem to have had that as well- given medication and no counseling alongside the medication. That can be as bad as no medication alongside the counseling. However, the answer is neither "stop giving medication" nor "stop counseling", but use both in harmony.
Scientology denigrates Psychiatry even more than twi does-because more Psychiatry means more people who can't be fleeced by their groups- and Scientology masks itself as a psychological treatment program among other things. According to Scientology, it would be a benefit to get ALL the psychiatric patients OFF drugs. I've known some nice Christians who WERE on psychiatric medications, and you'd never guess it to know from them. I know what they'd say about dropping the medication. True-if they were healed, they wouldn't need the drugs any more. So, don't like them taking drugs? Heal them. Don't expect Scientologists to do it, either. They don't believe in faith healing.
As to solving everyone's problems with enough Bible verses, I'd have to disagree.
James 2:15-16 (NASB) 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, [o]be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
I think the answer is plain-that sometimes actions are called for. (If you're unsure, James 2 goes into that pretty clearly.)
Good post WordWolf – and if I might add some info I’ve come across over the years – cognitive behavioral therapy
which is guided by empirical research, it focuses in on the patient developing personal coping strategies for solving certain problems and in changing harmful patterns in thoughts, beliefs and attitudes. I think it could be helpful in conjunction with medicine and professional counseling - maybe almost like homework for the patient
Cognitive behavioral therapy is listed as an evidence based practice which I also find fascinating in that evidence based practice takes a three pronged approach for improving a person’s mental health looking at : the best available research on treatments, clinical expertise to diagnose each patient’s unique health status – as well as their individual risks and benefits of possible treatments, and lastly the patient’s preferences and values…I like that – since it’s not a cookie-cutter approach, reducing complex issues to a handful of stereotypes or just throwing a bunch of pat answers at folks.
By the way I think a little cognitive therapy might help some folks get out of the TWI mindset – I read a good book a few years ago along those lines – Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David Burns
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T-Bone
Twinky, your post got me thinking a little more on dystopian societies… and by the way The Handmaid's Tale sounds so interesting – I keep telling myself I’ll have a lot more time to catch up o
Beguiled
I am a sociologist/professor/researcher and your argument is definitely "null and void." I know what the peer reviewed research and paradigms say about every major social problem. We can discuss them
Bolshevik
You can't think of other factors that affect quality of life? (and of a society? how is that measured?) You can't think of other sources of thought? You think reactions to words are comp
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rrobs
Interesting article about news and our discussion. I just picked one from Google ("bad news and stress"). There are many more.
Stress and Bad News
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rrobs
Where did quadruplex come up? Beyond mystifying to me.
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Bolshevik
Something like hunger. The drive to seek food. One of the multitude of processes that drive our thinking, it's there from the beginning. Not "put" there. Any number of systems can compete for "dominance" at any moment. It's why the mind can be thought of as a committee. Intuition being "decision" of the committee. (no just contrast machines)
In twi the renewed mind was a way of replacing thoughts with someone else's. To come to conclusions based on those thoughts. I would not agree the Bible's reference to the renewed mind and what was done in twi was the same.
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DontWorryBeHappy
If one is going to plagiarize the plagiarizer, then that one ought to at least have the "alacrity of mind" to do so accurately, or, at the very least, correctly. Along with the inordinate number of baseless wierwillean platitudes, and the complete lack of any evidence, scriptural or otherwise, some post their regurgitated Wierwille-ized unbiblical disinformation as if it as true as Einstein's General Theory of Relativity! Then, when completely incredulous and demonstrably ignorant statements regarding "chemical imbalances" and treating them with man-made chemicals are proffered as if they carry even a featherweight of educated relevance, the complete imbecility of these unprovable, platitudinal, OPINIONS becomes horrifically blatant.
The dictor paul term "mental ASSENT" has been erroneously quoted or referenced as "mental consent". Sorry.....but it's just as much mental masturbatory BS as the original term dictor paul invented. What is demonstrated to me by such mindless, reflexive "intellectual" crutches, used habitually without critical thought to "prove" non-existent "biblical principles", exhibits a complete intellectual laziness accompanied by a total lack of critical review and objective counterpoint. You can take the vegetable out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the vegetable. LOL!
My recommendation to the intellectually challenged wierwille apologists, is to first, get an identity other than the one dic manufactured for you in TWIt. And, secondly, stop choosing to stay stuck on stupid for the rest of your life. It is insulting to any ex-Wayfer to be lectured by any other ex-wayfers on how much we need to continue to delude ourselves and others with the ridiculously outdated and disproven "teachings and research" of dictor paul. He was a deranged, perverted, malignant, paranoid narcissist. Get over those FACTS, accept them, and then you may begin to uncork your cranium from dic's rectum. TTFN.
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T-Bone
Do the math
Beyond Mystifying indeed
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Bolshevik
total lol
ASSENT
Thank you for clarifying. Make a lot more sense. More ego inflating.
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rrobs
Every system is still composed of dualities. The committee can only think of "this" or "that" when making decisions. The universe was (became, whatever) without form and void. Effectively there was nothing for a mind like ours to grasp onto. Then God made light and darkness. From there the rest came. In Taoism (as cosmology, not philosophy or religion) the state before the material universe was called tao. It also formless, therefore effectively there was nothing to see, hear, smell, etc. It was without form and void. Then the tao "moved" and yin and yang separated. The one became two. It then says that the two became three and the three became 10,000 things which was an idiom meaning infinity. So man registers the yin and the yang and makes some conclusion about the myriad things that compose our "reality."
White is yang, black is yin. My mind registers the amount of yang/white and yin/black and then it can see the sky (light, yang) as a separate thing as the ground (black, yin). But if there was no white then there would be no black. Your mind could not make a determination in that case as to where the sky started and where the earth started. In other words, there would be no horizon to see.
That is what taoism says about our reality. I'm not asking you to believe this. I'm not even saying I believe it, but there are some interesting parallels there with the Bible. Both Eastern thought, so maybe no surprise.
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rrobs
OK. Here we go:
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1........=1
Mystifying is a good word for it.
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rrobs
Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac, you might consider this
Edited by rrobsContent
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Rocky
It's kind of a stretch to suggest that a MOOC on Global (anything, let alone...) Diplomacy relates at all to a discussion on an obscure cult escapees' forum about the role of the Bible in societal mental health. Btw, "Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac..." does boil down to name calling.
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T-Bone
Don’t Worry,
great post and thanks for addressing the error; I’m reminded of the movie Multiplicity - a sci-fi comedy with Michael Keaton feeling overwhelmed in life volunteers to be cloned. Michael likes the advantages of having two of him to handle life - so he clones the clone - but with each cloning there is a degradation of quality in the latest edition of himself.
but copying wierwille’s theology is not funny - because the “original “ is not benign . Using wierwille’s theology is more like a sci-fi / horror movie like Alien or Species - where an already insidious “lifeform” is experimented with or mutates.
Edited by T-BoneNeeded more time
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Bolshevik
I'm not sure I agree with your first few sentences. I think there's some interesting ideas in there though.
Again you've reduced everything to a duality. Three seems to fit better, as a simplification. IMO.
Even the yin and yang has an interface. The third.
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waysider
Thanks, DWBH, I didn't realize my information on chemical imbalances is so antiquated. I really need to spend some time getting better informed and up to date.
Anyhow, the point I was attempting to make is that the TWI method of "in go the good thoughts/out go the bad" is much too simplistic to address the complexity of an issue as enigmatic as mental illness.
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T-Bone
Yeah some of that is so laughable if it weren’t for the fact that TWI’s method might tend to make matters worse for someone with mental illness....makes me think of that old SNL skit with Steve Martin as Theodoric of York who’s cure for everything was a little blood-letting.
Edited by T-BoneClarity
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi Waysider!
i did not mean to be so "verbally" condescending as I perhaps was, in my statements regarding the "chemical imbalances" you referred to. It just happens to be a Nusing Certification I used daily for years.....Nursing Pharmacology.....and, there are not only many misconceptions about medication selection and administration in times past, but, the incredible advances made in the last 20 years in medical and technological research have produced amazing and reproduceable results at a rate almost as fast as the high-tech industry itself! This makes the number of treatment modalities expand geometrically, and new medications as well as new categories of medications are popping up like crazy. This is why I am so disheartened by "Big Pharma". They are sitting on a lot of great new treatments just to squeeze out every last possible dollar they can IMO.
The implications and prognosis for future beneficial use of new medications discovered with the latest technological aids and the brightest research minds, are enormous. The understanding of biology, physiology, and electrochemistry at the quantum level literally has made "all things possible"! Imagine 3D printing of human organs developed from the patient's very own individual genome allowing for transplants with absolutely no risk of rejection! This has already taken place at the animal level.....mice, pigs, sheep. The understanding of biochemical interaction at the quantum level has made the understanding of "chemical imbalances" far more detailed and holistic. Medications are now being designed from the patient's own genome and antigens genetically specific by it. Cancer chemotherapeutic agents are now being produced on an individual basis for each patient. Results are showing wonderful results and promising new treatment modalities. The knowledge is expanding exponentially every year. So, it is an extremely hopeful and exciting time not only for development of medications and treatments for the physiological killers like cancers and retroviruses, but also for the tormentors of the soul like psychiatric and social anxiety disorders. Sorry for the pedantic lecture, but I did not want to offend you in any way, so I tried to explain myself fully. Love ya bruddah!
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waysider
We have nurses in our family. At family gatherings, they inevitably wind up in a huddle, deeply engrossed in shop talk. You would think I would listen in and learn a thing or two. Nope. I've learned to tune it out after 35 years.
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DontWorryBeHappy
LOL waysider! LOL!
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rrobs
I googled, "shooters on psychotropics." Beaucoup hits. Here's just one: headline from https://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
36 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs
Not to say you are wrong, but that's a lot of dead people because drugs apparently don't always work. The shooters in this article are ones whose drug information was available. I'd be surprised if many other shooters weren't also on psychiatric drugs. But I don't have any actual facts on that (too lazy and not that important to me), so don't quote me.
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T-Bone
I’m not saying you’ve made a rush to judgment – but the opening paragraph of the article in your link ( school shootings ) makes me think there’s a lot more to it:
“Fact: At least 36 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs”
It says those acts committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs. An operative word in their fact being “withdrawing” (which was even italicized in the article) – suggests to me that perhaps in some cases the prescribed drugs were working until the individual stopped taking them or in some way deviated from the physicians directives. I think a lot more info and details are needed – which even this article suggests at the end by giving a link to a related article:
(aurora colorado tragedy )
The first fact at the top of this article says:
“Fact: Despite 27 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.”
I’m not a medical professional or anything that qualifies me to address this topic – but my curious mind wants to look at the bigger picture – like maybe what are the contributing factors to acts of violence committed by individuals with known mental health issues - and who knows... if warranted, sometimes federal investigations do broaden the scope of their systematic examination. Perhaps it would clarify issues related to the side effects of certain drugs but also issues related to a patient who stops taking the prescription or not following directives or a doctor's regimen, what are the current treatments for specific mental health issues and how effective are they... and I'm sure there's a lot of other things to consider - - because people are complex as well as each being a unique individual.
not only that...but if the pace of advancements / improvements in the medical world are anything like in other technical fields - things are changing all the time.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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DontWorryBeHappy
Robson......how dumb do you think we are??? You sir, are a moron, imo.
"How CCHR Was Established: CCHR was co-founded as an independent mental health watchdog in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus Dr. Thomas Szasz at a time when patients were being warehoused in institutions, abused, stripped of their constitutional, civil and human rights, and left without recourse."
So, use one destructive fascist cult to validate the beliefs of another??? The "Church" of Scientology doesn't "have any actual facts" about ANYTHING with any hint of science or evidence to back up L. Ron Hubbard's personal hatred for ALL things "psychiatric" or "psychological". Of all the "beaucoup hits" you pick the most abjectly insane one of them all. Zero clinical evidence. No clinical trial results. No clinical test results. No peer review. Just Scientologist propaganda. They're just as "lazy" as YOU as far as thinking "actual facts" matter in medical science, since their entire field was "born in a seance" according to your moggie dictor paul. That is why the evidence overwhelmingly points to you being an uneducated, misguided, and biased moron to post something from CCHR as presenting anything of any veracity containing "actual facts" regarding fields they blatantly disdain, discount, disrespect, despise, and literally HATE. Dude! What drugs are YOU on??
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T-Bone
Good catch, Don’t Worry -
…and seeing that CCHR was established by the church of Scientology
really does put those articles in a different light ! I’ve read a few very revealing books on Scientology…most notably
Inside Scientology and
Going Clear
that make quite a few references to Scientology’s campaign against psychiatry / psychology. See also Wikipedia’s article
Scientology and Psychiatry
In Going Clear, on pages 180 – 182, author Lawrence Wright gets into how Scientologist founder Hubbard became fascinated with mind control – so much so, that some former Scientologists refer to a pamphlet that Hubbard supposedly wrote called “Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics” – as a codex for Hubbard’s grand scheme - and that “there is an eerie mirroring of the techniques described in the pamphlet and some Scientology practices, especially those put into effect in the RFP.” The RFP is Scientology’s Rehabilitation Project Force
“Coincidentally” there’s been a few discussions here on Grease Spot that get into the similarities of the methods of Scientology and The Way International… “Great” cult-leaders think alike, I guess…wierwille liked to disparage psychiatry and such related fields…
I remember on more than one occasion he’d talk along the lines of having a sound mind according to “the word” versus how the world defines sanity…he’d brag about how he wouldn’t be able to pass a psychological evaluation test because the world’s standards for a sound mind differ from that of “The Word's" standards.... Yeah - i gotta admit I would agree with him knowing what I know now – I’ll bet he never could have passed a psychological evaluation test – with all the issues he had.
Edited by T-Boneneeded more time
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WordWolf
I've been out of the discussion for a while, but I've a few things to say now.
First of all, reducing EVERYTHING to dualities and polarizing them is bad. There are many issues where the extremes are wrong and the truth is in the middle. We've touched on a few here.
Concerning the twi approach to Psychology and Psychiatry, there's at least 2 problems with it. One, inadequate preparation for even basic first aid. They had a person have some sort of episode, and the response was neither "give medical attention" nor "get him to the hospital and let THEM give medical attention." This was never corrected with a medical contingency for when hundreds of people lived on grounds. The second thing was that all the actual "psychology" the did was neither TRAINED nor COMPREHENSIVE. It was the result of READING A SINGLE BOOK- Jay Adams' "Competent to Counsel", and that was the entirety of their preparation. Now, his "nouthetic" technique, IMHO, would work well for certain people, less well for certain other people, and horrendously for everyone with an actual physical problem. Counseling someone for a chemical imbalance is like counseling someone for a broken arm. Now, if they're given the right chemicals, THEN some counseling might be of great use. However, treating them without the medication is as effective as treating ANYTHING and leaving out the necessary medication. twi's method is lazy, ineffective, and criminally negligent.
It is true that the other extreme is equally bad- just dumping chemicals on people and sending them off. Many people seem to have had that as well- given medication and no counseling alongside the medication. That can be as bad as no medication alongside the counseling. However, the answer is neither "stop giving medication" nor "stop counseling", but use both in harmony.
Scientology denigrates Psychiatry even more than twi does-because more Psychiatry means more people who can't be fleeced by their groups- and Scientology masks itself as a psychological treatment program among other things. According to Scientology, it would be a benefit to get ALL the psychiatric patients OFF drugs. I've known some nice Christians who WERE on psychiatric medications, and you'd never guess it to know from them. I know what they'd say about dropping the medication. True-if they were healed, they wouldn't need the drugs any more. So, don't like them taking drugs? Heal them. Don't expect Scientologists to do it, either. They don't believe in faith healing.
As to solving everyone's problems with enough Bible verses, I'd have to disagree.
James 2:15-16 (NASB) 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, [o]be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
I think the answer is plain-that sometimes actions are called for. (If you're unsure, James 2 goes into that pretty clearly.)
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T-Bone
Good post WordWolf – and if I might add some info I’ve come across over the years – cognitive behavioral therapy
which is guided by empirical research, it focuses in on the patient developing personal coping strategies for solving certain problems and in changing harmful patterns in thoughts, beliefs and attitudes. I think it could be helpful in conjunction with medicine and professional counseling - maybe almost like homework for the patient
Cognitive behavioral therapy is listed as an evidence based practice which I also find fascinating in that evidence based practice takes a three pronged approach for improving a person’s mental health looking at : the best available research on treatments, clinical expertise to diagnose each patient’s unique health status – as well as their individual risks and benefits of possible treatments, and lastly the patient’s preferences and values…I like that – since it’s not a cookie-cutter approach, reducing complex issues to a handful of stereotypes or just throwing a bunch of pat answers at folks.
By the way I think a little cognitive therapy might help some folks get out of the TWI mindset
– I read a good book a few years ago along those lines – Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David Burns
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Bolshevik
Would all this cognitive therapy and drug treatments have worked in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World? Would Bible verses?
Or does the protagonist still hang from the rafters in the end?
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