Please tell us more about your assertions that "With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. " and how that relates to your opening statement of "The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind."
Since a society is composed of people, then the quality of life of each individual goes into the overall quality of life of the whole. If everybody is blessed you end up with a blessed society. If everybody is depressed you end up with a depressed society. That is how the first statement relates to the second statement. Hope that helps.
So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do.
You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer.
And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.
So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do.
You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer.
And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.
Pretty sure Jesus' main message was to believe God. Good luck trying to emulate his life. You won't be able to. Remember, he never sinned. Unless you can say that you've never sinned, you have already failed in your efforts to emulate him.
I did answer your question by inviting you to come visit me and see for yourself. But if you can't do that I'll just say that to the best of my ability I keep God's word central in my thoughts. What good does that do society?
Deut 30:19,
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
The world as a whole chooses death. You (assuming you are born again) and I can choose life and we do that by believing the scriptures and acting on them.
Whatever light of the word shines in my heart (and yours) shines through the darkness of this world. If nobody believed the word, the world would be a dark place indeed. But fortunately, each community has some people who believe and act on God's word and that makes that community and the world as a whole a little less dark. To put it more succinctly,
Matt 5:14-15,
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
You might find a more receptive audience if you had more to offer than a rehashed version of PFAL 101. We all heard this stuff, over and over, too many times to possibly count. My advise? Read a book or two... get a hobby... volunteer at a local charity...Just do SOMETHING other than trying to make PFAL work. Because, quite frankly, it doesn't.
You might find a more receptive audience if you had more to offer than a rehashed version of PFAL 101. We all heard this stuff, over and over, too many times to possibly count. My advise? Read a book or two... get a hobby... volunteer at a local charity...Just do SOMETHING other than trying to make PFAL work. Because, quite frankly, it doesn't.
I just finished reading A Tale of Two Cities for the second time. I have two hobbies, electronics and kung fu. I'm a volunteer fire fighter. So now go back and read all my stuff. You should be more receptive now that you know I have secular side also. No?
As far as PFAL, I don't think I've said anything that countless others haven't said way before VP. I believe that the prevailing sentiment at GSC is that VP plagiarized everything. So just pretend that my sources comes from BW (Before Wierwille). I've been using the Bible as my source, not PFAL. Maybe that will make it all more palatable?
The world does not, nor ever has, revolved around VP or TWI. I really think that many at GSC are more influenced by TWI than I am. It's as though VP and TWI shapes your every thought. You just can't seem to forget. I know there are reasons for that, and I'm truly sorry for any pain and suffering they may have caused you, but it' is nonetheless a mistake to paint everybody else with the same brush. Some people have indeed gotten over it and yet still believe the word. Why is that so hard to understand?
The funny part is that I sincerely did not realize I was posting in this forum. I've been posting in the doctrine section all along and that is where I meant to post this one. I just made a simple mistake. No big deal. "What must I do to be saved?"
I was attempting to respond to you, rrobs, unlike others here who have jumped on you.
My headache from banged head, and I, are now going away for the weekend. Have fun not responding to others.
From you: So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs?
I might be dense, but that looks more like jumping than responding. In any case, I tried to answer you as honestly and graciously as I could. If I missed the mark, please excuse my ignorance. Have a nice getaway this weekend!
I posted this same paper on two other Christian forums. Totally different response from that of GSC. All very positive. I even got a "trophy" on one site. Yeah me! That tells me it's not the content, but the one writing the content. Any other explanations?
I posted this same paper on two other Christian forums. Totally different response from that of GSC. All very positive. I even got a "trophy" on one site. Yeah me! That tells me it's not the content, but the one writing the content. Any other explanations?
The statements I made need no clarification. Excuse me for saying it, but "they say what they mean, and they mean what they say," but that is really the best way I can put it. There are two kinds of people, those who believe what I said and those who don't. I do, others don't. Not much more to say about it.
That's a completely backward understanding of the process of communication. It is the listener/reader who determines whether or not to ask for clarification, not the speaker/writer.
Your statement is also fairly characterized as a cop out... and another bogus claim made with ZERO support.
Martin Luther, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Oral Roberts, E. W. Bullinger, and many others said the same thing way (not The Way ) before VP arrived. In any case, it is up to each individual to believe or not to believe. Most don't. So what?
So, really all you want to do here is claim a position of moral superiority without justifying that position with any legitimate argument? Awfully lazy.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Again, that's not a statement of how you arrived at your conclusion. In fact it's not a statement of anything that YOU arrived at.
At least explain YOUR reasoning for taking that particular verse and defaulting to it. All you did was state a default position written by someone else. You gave no explanation.
I understand that form your perspective EVERYTHING I say is dubious. The effect wears out with overuse. That's not meant to be some kind of universal truth. It's just my observation. Not really having any kind of meaningful discussion with you, it's hard to really say.
The only reason you're not engaged in "any kind of meaningful discussion" is because you seem averse to having your claims challenged and my asking you to at least give YOUR explanation rather than defaulting to someone else's words.
As far as PFAL, I don't think I've said anything that countless others haven't said way before VP. I believe that the prevailing sentiment at GSC is that VP plagiarized everything. A LOT.
Yet, you still don't seem inclined to provide ANY documentation of what, where or when those countless others said what you believe.
Yet, you still don't seem inclined to provide ANY documentation of what, where or when those countless others said what you believe.
I thought I'd save you the time in looking for things that Luther, Wycliffe, etc said and give you a few quotes that would back up what I said in the post. Then I had an epiphany. Those guys are no more nor no less of a man than myself. As far as I can tell, you take the things I said as false. Fine. So why would you change your mind if they said the same things? So why bother with church history at all?
So let's confine our discussion to what the word says. If you don't want to do that I understand. But if you do, please tell me from the word where anything I said is not aligned with that word. I'm not saying I got divine relation in that post, so maybe I'm missing something. If so, please tell me from the word. No Bullinger, pope, deacon, sociology professor, PHD, or any human source at all; just chapter and verse.
The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind. Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves. That is basic to life. Someone telling you they love you fills your mind with positive thoughts. Should that same person tell you they hate you, your mind tends towards more negative thoughts.
The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life.
To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food.
Matt 4:4,
But he (Jesus) answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The devil had just asked Jesus, after having fasted for 40 days, to change the rocks into bread. Jesus could have thought, “Hey, that sounds like a great idea. I’m starving!” That would have ended the whole plan of redemption. Instead, he thought about something God said in his word. Matthew 4:4 is a quote from Deuteronomy 8:3 which Jesus undoubtedly thought about without ceasing. That and the entire Old Testament which he knew like the back of his hand. His mind was filled with thoughts from God’s word instead of man’s insane ideas of this life. Jesus rose from the dead, which is he exact opposite of the horror that daily fills the TV and computer monitors by the alphabet news agencies of this world.
To think about the word you must study it for yourself. The yourself part is key. Your Pastor, Priest, Imam, or Rabbi can give you ideas on what the scriptures say, but you must absolutely read and study them for yourself to make sure the things others tell you are true or not. That is the only way you can fill your mind with the thoughts of God which will enhance society rather than tearing it to pieces. There is not a law, policy, or practice that man can make that will have the desired results.
2Pet 1:3,
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole.
1 hour ago, rrobs said:
I thought I'd save you the time in looking for things that Luther, Wycliffe, etc said and give you a few quotes that would back up what I said in the post. Then I had an epiphany. Those guys are no more nor no less of a man than myself. As far as I can tell, you take the things I said as false. Fine. So why would you change your mind if they said the same things? So why bother with church history at all?
So let's confine our discussion to what the word says. If you don't want to do that I understand. But if you do, please tell me from the word where anything I said is not aligned with that word. I'm not saying I got divine relation in that post, so maybe I'm missing something. If so, please tell me from the word. No Bullinger, pope, deacon, sociology professor, PHD, or any human source at all; just chapter and verse.
So…using your own criteria of chapter and verse – let us proceed…
...I’ll just limit it to a few select points since it appears your first post does exhibit such a flagrant disregard for documentation (citing chapter and verse) – which in turn leaves my line of inquiry rather repetitive…
== == == ==
rrobs:
The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == ==
rrobs:
Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == ==
rrobs:
That is basic to life.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == == ==
rrobs:
The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions (this is referencing the entire above paragraph).
== == == ==
rrobs:
To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.
== == == =
rrobs:
It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.
I thought I'd save you the time in looking for things that Luther, Wycliffe, etc said and give you a few quotes that would back up what I said in the post. Then I had an epiphany. Those guys are no more nor no less of a man than myself. As far as I can tell, you take the things I said as false. Fine. So why would you change your mind if they said the same things? So why bother with church history at all?
So let's confine our discussion to what the word says. If you don't want to do that I understand. But if you do, please tell me from the word where anything I said is not aligned with that word. I'm not saying I got divine relation in that post, so maybe I'm missing something. If so, please tell me from the word. No Bullinger, pope, deacon, sociology professor, PHD, or any human source at all; just chapter and verse.
Nothing in any internet forum discussion suggests the reader is responsible for looking up anything to support the writer's claim(s).
You only saved yourself the time associated with making an actual argument worth any one's consideration.
Let's not "confine the discussion to what the word [not capitalized] says." You haven't established that The Word (if that is, indeed, what you are referring to) is the authority for what the Creator of Heaven and Earth actually means.
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T-Bone
Twinky, your post got me thinking a little more on dystopian societies… and by the way The Handmaid's Tale sounds so interesting – I keep telling myself I’ll have a lot more time to catch up o
Beguiled
I am a sociologist/professor/researcher and your argument is definitely "null and void." I know what the peer reviewed research and paradigms say about every major social problem. We can discuss them
Bolshevik
You can't think of other factors that affect quality of life? (and of a society? how is that measured?) You can't think of other sources of thought? You think reactions to words are comp
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rrobs
Since a society is composed of people, then the quality of life of each individual goes into the overall quality of life of the whole. If everybody is blessed you end up with a blessed society. If everybody is depressed you end up with a depressed society. That is how the first statement relates to the second statement. Hope that helps.
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Twinky
What I said, rrobs, was this:
So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do.
You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer.
And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.
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rrobs
Pretty sure Jesus' main message was to believe God. Good luck trying to emulate his life. You won't be able to. Remember, he never sinned. Unless you can say that you've never sinned, you have already failed in your efforts to emulate him.
I did answer your question by inviting you to come visit me and see for yourself. But if you can't do that I'll just say that to the best of my ability I keep God's word central in my thoughts. What good does that do society?
Deut 30:19,
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
The world as a whole chooses death. You (assuming you are born again) and I can choose life and we do that by believing the scriptures and acting on them.
Whatever light of the word shines in my heart (and yours) shines through the darkness of this world. If nobody believed the word, the world would be a dark place indeed. But fortunately, each community has some people who believe and act on God's word and that makes that community and the world as a whole a little less dark. To put it more succinctly,
Matt 5:14-15,
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
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Twinky
Banging my head on a stone wall here.
I was attempting to respond to you, rrobs, unlike others here who have jumped on you.
My headache from banged head, and I, are now going away for the weekend. Have fun not responding to others.
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waysider
rrobs
You might find a more receptive audience if you had more to offer than a rehashed version of PFAL 101. We all heard this stuff, over and over, too many times to possibly count. My advise? Read a book or two... get a hobby... volunteer at a local charity...Just do SOMETHING other than trying to make PFAL work. Because, quite frankly, it doesn't.
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Bolshevik
Maybe this would be a good time to mention how serotonin levels in lobsters relates to where the abstracted concept of god comes from?
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rrobs
I just finished reading A Tale of Two Cities for the second time. I have two hobbies, electronics and kung fu. I'm a volunteer fire fighter. So now go back and read all my stuff. You should be more receptive now that you know I have secular side also. No?
As far as PFAL, I don't think I've said anything that countless others haven't said way before VP. I believe that the prevailing sentiment at GSC is that VP plagiarized everything. So just pretend that my sources comes from BW (Before Wierwille). I've been using the Bible as my source, not PFAL. Maybe that will make it all more palatable?
The world does not, nor ever has, revolved around VP or TWI. I really think that many at GSC are more influenced by TWI than I am. It's as though VP and TWI shapes your every thought. You just can't seem to forget. I know there are reasons for that, and I'm truly sorry for any pain and suffering they may have caused you, but it' is nonetheless a mistake to paint everybody else with the same brush. Some people have indeed gotten over it and yet still believe the word. Why is that so hard to understand?
The funny part is that I sincerely did not realize I was posting in this forum. I've been posting in the doctrine section all along and that is where I meant to post this one. I just made a simple mistake. No big deal. "What must I do to be saved?"
Edited by rrobsspelling
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rrobs
From you: So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs?
I might be dense, but that looks more like jumping than responding. In any case, I tried to answer you as honestly and graciously as I could. If I missed the mark, please excuse my ignorance. Have a nice getaway this weekend!
Edited by rrobsContent
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rrobs
No, it wouldn't. Better to wait until it's all over.
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rrobs
I posted this same paper on two other Christian forums. Totally different response from that of GSC. All very positive. I even got a "trophy" on one site. Yeah me! That tells me it's not the content, but the one writing the content. Any other explanations?
Edited by rrobsspelling
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waysider
rrobs
All you're doing is reformatting the basic framework of PFAL materials. Do you not realize that's what you're doing?
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Bolshevik
Participation trophy?
Sarcasm?
Redirection?
Boredom?
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Rocky
That's a completely backward understanding of the process of communication. It is the listener/reader who determines whether or not to ask for clarification, not the speaker/writer.
Your statement is also fairly characterized as a cop out... and another bogus claim made with ZERO support.
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Rocky
So, really all you want to do here is claim a position of moral superiority without justifying that position with any legitimate argument? Awfully lazy.
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Rocky
Again, that's not a statement of how you arrived at your conclusion. In fact it's not a statement of anything that YOU arrived at.
At least explain YOUR reasoning for taking that particular verse and defaulting to it. All you did was state a default position written by someone else. You gave no explanation.
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Rocky
The only reason you're not engaged in "any kind of meaningful discussion" is because you seem averse to having your claims challenged and my asking you to at least give YOUR explanation rather than defaulting to someone else's words.
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Rocky
Yet, you still don't seem inclined to provide ANY documentation of what, where or when those countless others said what you believe.
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Rocky
Unfortunately, it appears he does not realize that's what he's doing.
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rrobs
Any basic church history book has all you want to know.
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rrobs
I thought I'd save you the time in looking for things that Luther, Wycliffe, etc said and give you a few quotes that would back up what I said in the post. Then I had an epiphany. Those guys are no more nor no less of a man than myself. As far as I can tell, you take the things I said as false. Fine. So why would you change your mind if they said the same things? So why bother with church history at all?
So let's confine our discussion to what the word says. If you don't want to do that I understand. But if you do, please tell me from the word where anything I said is not aligned with that word. I'm not saying I got divine relation in that post, so maybe I'm missing something. If so, please tell me from the word. No Bullinger, pope, deacon, sociology professor, PHD, or any human source at all; just chapter and verse.
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rrobs
It's a virtual trophy I guess. Still, I got one and you didn't. But don't worry, you'll still get by.
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T-Bone
So…using your own criteria of chapter and verse – let us proceed…
...I’ll just limit it to a few select points since it appears your first post does exhibit such a flagrant disregard for documentation (citing chapter and verse) – which in turn leaves my line of inquiry rather repetitive…
== == == ==
rrobs:
The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == ==
rrobs:
Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == ==
rrobs:
That is basic to life.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion.
== == == ==
rrobs:
The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions (this is referencing the entire above paragraph).
== == == ==
rrobs:
To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.
== == == =
rrobs:
It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole.
T-Bone:
Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.
Edited by T-Boneclarity and formatting
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Rocky
And what on this website suggests that ANY one here has ANY such book?
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Rocky
Nothing in any internet forum discussion suggests the reader is responsible for looking up anything to support the writer's claim(s).
Edited by RockyYou only saved yourself the time associated with making an actual argument worth any one's consideration.
Let's not "confine the discussion to what the word [not capitalized] says." You haven't established that The Word (if that is, indeed, what you are referring to) is the authority for what the Creator of Heaven and Earth actually means.
punctuation
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