No, George. If you read my posts more carefully you'll see I'm saying:
"Don't waste my time and yours with the facts.I've already seen them all, long before you did, and I've FINALLY made up my mind."
You seem to be a researcher. Please consider the differences: (1) seen them ALL (2) long before you did (3)and I've FINALLY made up my mind.
I can budge on the word "all" there. If someone shows me facts I am NOT yet aware of then some re-thinking can be done on my part. I have already done some of this since I wrote that in 2002. I've been at this a very long time, I was lucky to get a LOT of facts that none knew here, and I was sheltered from a lot of the BS of the Corps.
When he lost members and donations it cost a lot. It matters not if someone "owns" an organization if the major followers leave, ESPECIALLY if it's a tiny organization.
If he really had a 1942 revelation then the ministry SHOULD be about him and him giving it to us. That is NOT a democracy. It was the revelation to him that it was all about.
Now, if he didn't get a revelation in 1942 and the promised followups, THEN you all are totally right-on and I should join you.
But if it WAS a genuine revelation then you should join me.
It has NOTHING to do with VPW or his sin or his successes.
It all revolves around whether that was a genuine revelation. God can give a revelation to anyone He wants to. He does not have to follow OUR rules and principles for selecting ministers. Spectrum49's brilliant post above illustrates some of these principles we must use.
In fact I think God delights in confounding our traditions and man made religion in some of His ways. Remember Isaiah 55, that His ways are not our ways.
I see him selecting VPW as the recipient and the teacher of this revelation to confound those of us who insist on man made religion. It filters out the less devoted to truth from those who hunger for it above all man's ways and traditions and adulation.
From the benefits I have received from written PFAL, and from the providential shielding I had from ALL things Way Corps, I vote GENUINE.
Right... it's NOT a democracy, but you vote "genuine."
ROCKY: Actually (in the previous post, from the 2002 link) George Aar had said to Mike, "Basically aren't you simply saying "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up"?" And isn't it strange how Mike replied in the very next post: "NO GEORGE...Don't waste my time and yours with the facts.I've already seen them all, long before you did, and I've FINALLY made up my mind." Isn't it utterly ironic how Mike contradicted himself --- first disagreeing with George, but (in his very next breath) agreeing with exactly what George had said to him! Rather confusing, huh?
Maybe you missed my recent confession as to WHY I practiced the Art of Dodging here, and pretty well I might add, back in 2002. . It was to get my message out undeterred.
I continued this technique all the way up to about two months ago when I gave up my hard hitting distribution campaign. I'm a lot more open to considerations now, but I still maintain my position.
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." NIV
Mike, I think the scriptures are calling BULL$hit on you.
VeePee was as arrogant as they come and clearly, he eschewed wise counsel when he needed it most.
Prov 16
Arrogance aimed at religion and tradition and error was not what Solomon was talking about. I want a leader who calls the BS in religion with great conviction. Naturally to a believer in such religion that LOOKS like arrogance.
Oh sure, he could have plenty of sin arrogance at times, but not in the written teachings. It was filtered out there. God and many others helped him.
***
Prov 11
VPW had many counselors and advisors. Sometime they talked him into the right decisions and sometimes they talked him into the wrong decisions. If he happened to get a revelation on an issue, then he told them to get lost. Uncle Harry told me this is how Board of Trustee meetings went. He said they often fought like cats and dogs, but if Vic said "thus saith the Lord" they shut up.
***
Rocky, I think the reason you couldn't predict this answer I gave is because you feel you can not lower yourself to even consider what I say a little. You reveal your hand here. Try listening with understanding instead of resistance and you'll understand this better.
You have the ability to temporarily PUT yourself into my argument, yet you're afraid to. Every serious High School debate team member learns to PUT themselves into an argument they don't believe to develop a flexible debating mind. You can do this. I think you're afraid to even consider what I say.
errata:
In "Try listening with understanding instead of resistance and you'll understand this better." The phrase "listening without understanding" was changed to "listening with understanding"
If VPW expressed the kinds of things Ralph asked me about then I see them as IRRATIONAL. He wasn't Jesus Christ you know. That means flaws, even flaws you don't like. IRRATIONAL flaws.
What you see in me is forgiveness. Maybe you can learn from it.
Mike, I think people here have forgiven you a number of times. However, when people present you with facts, you give them a lot of insipid answers. Personally, I think you don't want to admit, to being wrong. I give up Mike; I don't have the patience to deal with you. Shalom!
Maybe you missed my recent confession as to WHY I practiced the Art of Dodging here, and pretty well I might add, back in 2002. . It was to get my message out undeterred.
I continued this technique all the way up to about two months ago when I gave up my hard hitting distribution campaign. I'm a lot more open to considerations now, but I still maintain my position.
Get it out incoherently, you might mean. When others pose questions for clarification (what about this; what about that; etc) if you had a coherent message, you'd be able to process the feedback and use it to build. By your own admission, you practiced dodging. How artful is subject to debate. And because you didn't and don't participate in a socratic process to make your message more meaningful, it collapses on the weight of its own hallowness because the support beams can't handle the weight.
15 minutes ago, Mike said:
Rocky, I think the reason you couldn't predict this answer I gave is because you feel you can not lower yourself to even consider what I say a little. You reveal your hand here. Try listening without understanding instead of resistance and you'll understand this better.
You have the ability to temporarily PUT yourself into my argument, yet you're afraid to. Every serious High School debate team member learns to PUT themselves into an argument they don't believe to develop a flexible debating mind. You can do this. I think you're afraid to even consider what I say.
That you think I was trying to predict your answers gives rise to your confabulation. I was not trying to predict, I was asking you to answer. Your second paragragh makes no sense. I wasn't trying to put myself into any such thing.
Carry on. Hope against hope that one day you will make sense.
Mike, I think people here have forgiven you a number of times. However, when people present you with facts, you give them a lot of insipid answers. Personally, I think you don't want to admit, to being wrong. I give up Mike; I don't have the patience to deal with you. Shalom!
That you think I was trying to predict your answers gives rise to your confabulation. I was not trying to predict, I was asking you to answer. Your second paragragh makes no sense. I wasn't trying to put myself into any such thing.
When you asked me the questions it was because you thought they would trip me up. That means you predicted I had no good answer. You prediction was wrong. I note that you did nothing here to refute my answers to the Proverbs questions.
I think you could have predicted right it if you were willing to wrap your head around my thesis, temporarily, for the logic of it. I also see other posters doing this, often.
Mike, how much alcohol must you consume to come up with this malarky?
Honest Officer! I find that nursing one beer for almost two hours on a dancefloor does not slow me down. High velocity is essential in hot Rock n Roll dancing. Right now I'm at my limit of two glasses of wine in 3 hours of typing. It slows me down in typing too.
You must not be a drinker to think my posts can be done buzzed. Any buzz kills efficiency. There are too many details to consider. I'd be nailed left and right in my posts here if I was drinking too much. No one here would feel the need to negate me if I inefficiently assaulted some of the fundamental beliefs here. I'd be ignored.
Maybe a tiny buzz is good for bedtime, but that's all. I get headaches too easily when major buzzed. It's almost 2 am now, so nighty night. :)
When you asked me the questions it was because you thought they would trip me up. That means you predicted I had no good answer. You prediction was wrong. I note that you did nothing here to refute my answers to the Proverbs questions.
I think you could have predicted right it if you were willing to wrap your head around my thesis, temporarily, for the logic of it. I also see other posters doing this, often.
Rocky, thanks for the link. I always wanted to know what "confabulation" meant! Thanks!
good night sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite.
Rocky, God bless you! My mother used to say this to me, years ago when I was a little kid! She has been dead for 16 years, but I miss her dearly. I still say this to family members, when I talk to them late at night.
No, George. If you read my posts more carefully you'll see I'm saying:
"Don't waste my time and yours with the facts.I've already seen them all, long before you did, and I've FINALLY made up my mind."
Actually, there are plenty of facts you repeatedly choose to ignore.
Many woman have written testimonials here about how Saint Vic forced himself on them.
Losing the Way is another book of facts you've chosen to ignore.
This is like a jury saying, We don't want to hear anything about the crime, just tell us what a model citizen the defendant was.
How can you make an honest decision based on half the information?
8 hours ago, Mike said:
If VPW expressed the kinds of things Ralph asked me about then I see them as IRRATIONAL. He wasn't Jesus Christ you know. That means flaws, even flaws you don't like. IRRATIONAL flaws.
What you see in me is forgiveness. Maybe you can learn from it.
So you have no trouble forgiving Saint Vic, but you have a problem forgiving everyone here.
Proof?
How many accusations have you made at the people here?
Just a few post down, you accuse ssomeone of trying to trip you up. And you know what goes on in his mind, how?
You've accused Twinky of using lawyer tricks. And you know her intent how?
Where is all that forgiveness your preaching?
8 hours ago, Mike said:
Maybe you missed my recent confession as to WHY I practiced the Art of Dodging here, and pretty well I might add, back in 2002. . It was to get my message out undeterred.
And your presidence for this is what?
For us professional question askers (lawyers, procecutors, journalist, etc.) when somebody dodges a question it usually means one of two things:
When you asked me the questions it was because you thought they would trip me up. That means you predicted I had no good answer. You prediction was wrong. I note that you did nothing here to refute my answers to the Proverbs questions.
I think you could have predicted right it if you were willing to wrap your head around my thesis, temporarily, for the logic of it. I also see other posters doing this, often.
Even you should be able to recognize that as nothing more and nothing less than you projecting onto me. Here's the formula you set forth: "When YOU _____ it was because you thought _____."
Dude, you've projected so far and so emphatically that you --- having NO basis in fact or in my words (which you didn't quote to even try to show where you came up with the notion) for claiming I was trying to predict anything that you would say.
Now, if he didn't get a revelation in 1942 and the promised followups, THEN you all are totally right-on and I should join you.
But if it WAS a genuine revelation then you should join me.
And your proof it was a genuine revelation, beyond I said it was a genuine revelation?
10 hours ago, Mike said:
t all revolves around whether that was a genuine revelation. God can give a revelation to anyone He wants to. He does not have to follow OUR rules and principles for selecting ministers. Spectrum49's brilliant post above illustrates some of these principles we must use.
And you realize of course that Spectrum 49's brilliant post would discredit Saint Vic as a MOG, don't you?
For example, when did Saint Vic ever praise someonewho wasn't doing his bidding?
Quote
In fact I think God delights in confounding our traditions and man made religion in some of His ways. Remember Isaiah 55, that His ways are not our ways.
I see him selecting VPW as the recipient and the teacher of this revelation to confound those of us who insist on man made religion. It filters out the less devoted to truth from those who hunger for it above all man's ways and traditions and adulation.
From the benefits I have received from written PFAL, and from the providential shielding I had from ALL things Way Corps, I vote GENUINE.
And after 42 years of effort resulting in failure--not to mention others testimonials on this forum of resounding failures--I'd vote PHONEY
After reading your latest verbose fairytale ramblings, I have come to the conclusion that it is fruitless to discuss anything about dictor paul, TWIt, the Bible, or piffle with you ever again. To once again quote Thomas Paine, “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” I’m happy to discuss anything else with you, share a glass of wine some time maybe......but NO MAS on anything Bible, Wierwille, TWIt, or piffle. Bette sums up how I feel about discussing any of the aforementioned “spiritual topics” with you. Never again! LOL! TY.......and......peace.
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T-Bone
Just for the record - I’ve mentioned this before - the definition for “hard hitting” as often associated with tough journalists who do their job - is uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in
Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, what are you talking about?? I think there is a lot of "good," here at the GSC. For example, if you go back, and read the threads, many people have revealed the real TWI, not the one in your i
DontWorryBeHappy
Hey Mike: Don’t flatter yourself with your fantasy that I am your “opponent” in some grand “debate”. I am NOT your opponent. I feel deep sorrow and pity for you, not opposition. I have already to
Mike
You seem to be a researcher. Please consider the differences: (1) seen them ALL (2) long before you did (3)and I've FINALLY made up my mind.
I can budge on the word "all" there. If someone shows me facts I am NOT yet aware of then some re-thinking can be done on my part. I have already done some of this since I wrote that in 2002. I've been at this a very long time, I was lucky to get a LOT of facts that none knew here, and I was sheltered from a lot of the BS of the Corps.
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Rocky
Right... it's NOT a democracy, but you vote "genuine."
Should you not at least answer the questions raised from scripture? (Proverbs 11:14 and 16:18)
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Rocky
Facts? Where did you present any facts at all about Wierwille's notions?
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Mike
Maybe you missed my recent confession as to WHY I practiced the Art of Dodging here, and pretty well I might add, back in 2002. . It was to get my message out undeterred.
I continued this technique all the way up to about two months ago when I gave up my hard hitting distribution campaign. I'm a lot more open to considerations now, but I still maintain my position.
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Mike
Prov 16
Arrogance aimed at religion and tradition and error was not what Solomon was talking about. I want a leader who calls the BS in religion with great conviction. Naturally to a believer in such religion that LOOKS like arrogance.
Oh sure, he could have plenty of sin arrogance at times, but not in the written teachings. It was filtered out there. God and many others helped him.
***
Prov 11
VPW had many counselors and advisors. Sometime they talked him into the right decisions and sometimes they talked him into the wrong decisions. If he happened to get a revelation on an issue, then he told them to get lost. Uncle Harry told me this is how Board of Trustee meetings went. He said they often fought like cats and dogs, but if Vic said "thus saith the Lord" they shut up.
***
Rocky, I think the reason you couldn't predict this answer I gave is because you feel you can not lower yourself to even consider what I say a little. You reveal your hand here. Try listening with understanding instead of resistance and you'll understand this better.
You have the ability to temporarily PUT yourself into my argument, yet you're afraid to. Every serious High School debate team member learns to PUT themselves into an argument they don't believe to develop a flexible debating mind. You can do this. I think you're afraid to even consider what I say.
errata:
In "Try listening with understanding instead of resistance and you'll understand this better." The phrase "listening without understanding" was changed to "listening with understanding"
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Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, what facts??!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, bingo!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Mike, I think people here have forgiven you a number of times. However, when people present you with facts, you give them a lot of insipid answers. Personally, I think you don't want to admit, to being wrong. I give up Mike; I don't have the patience to deal with you. Shalom!
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Rocky
Get it out incoherently, you might mean. When others pose questions for clarification (what about this; what about that; etc) if you had a coherent message, you'd be able to process the feedback and use it to build. By your own admission, you practiced dodging. How artful is subject to debate. And because you didn't and don't participate in a socratic process to make your message more meaningful, it collapses on the weight of its own hallowness because the support beams can't handle the weight.
That you think I was trying to predict your answers gives rise to your confabulation. I was not trying to predict, I was asking you to answer. Your second paragragh makes no sense. I wasn't trying to put myself into any such thing.
Carry on. Hope against hope that one day you will make sense.
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Rocky
Mike, how much alcohol must you consume to come up with this malarky?
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Rocky
good night sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite.
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Mike
Read.
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Mike
Goodbye, again.
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Mike
When you asked me the questions it was because you thought they would trip me up. That means you predicted I had no good answer. You prediction was wrong. I note that you did nothing here to refute my answers to the Proverbs questions.
I think you could have predicted right it if you were willing to wrap your head around my thesis, temporarily, for the logic of it. I also see other posters doing this, often.
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Mike
Honest Officer! I find that nursing one beer for almost two hours on a dancefloor does not slow me down. High velocity is essential in hot Rock n Roll dancing. Right now I'm at my limit of two glasses of wine in 3 hours of typing. It slows me down in typing too.
You must not be a drinker to think my posts can be done buzzed. Any buzz kills efficiency. There are too many details to consider. I'd be nailed left and right in my posts here if I was drinking too much. No one here would feel the need to negate me if I inefficiently assaulted some of the fundamental beliefs here. I'd be ignored.
Maybe a tiny buzz is good for bedtime, but that's all. I get headaches too easily when major buzzed. It's almost 2 am now, so nighty night. :)
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, thanks for the link. I always wanted to know what "confabulation" meant! Thanks!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, God bless you! My mother used to say this to me, years ago when I was a little kid! She has been dead for 16 years, but I miss her dearly. I still say this to family members, when I talk to them late at night.
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So_crates
Actually, there are plenty of facts you repeatedly choose to ignore.
Many woman have written testimonials here about how Saint Vic forced himself on them.
Losing the Way is another book of facts you've chosen to ignore.
This is like a jury saying, We don't want to hear anything about the crime, just tell us what a model citizen the defendant was.
How can you make an honest decision based on half the information?
So you have no trouble forgiving Saint Vic, but you have a problem forgiving everyone here.
Proof?
How many accusations have you made at the people here?
Just a few post down, you accuse ssomeone of trying to trip you up. And you know what goes on in his mind, how?
You've accused Twinky of using lawyer tricks. And you know her intent how?
Where is all that forgiveness your preaching?
And your presidence for this is what?
For us professional question askers (lawyers, procecutors, journalist, etc.) when somebody dodges a question it usually means one of two things:
a). They haven't thought their story through
b). They're hiding something
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waysider
You said it, not me...
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Bolshevik
google "synaptic pruning"
also google "brain plasticity"
interesting stuff
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Bolshevik
VPW stole Heefner's works? Is that why he's important?
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Rocky
Even you should be able to recognize that as nothing more and nothing less than you projecting onto me. Here's the formula you set forth: "When YOU _____ it was because you thought _____."
Dude, you've projected so far and so emphatically that you --- having NO basis in fact or in my words (which you didn't quote to even try to show where you came up with the notion) for claiming I was trying to predict anything that you would say.
That's beyond bizarre.
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So_crates
And your proof it was a genuine revelation, beyond I said it was a genuine revelation?
And you realize of course that Spectrum 49's brilliant post would discredit Saint Vic as a MOG, don't you?
For example, when did Saint Vic ever praise someonewho wasn't doing his bidding?
And after 42 years of effort resulting in failure--not to mention others testimonials on this forum of resounding failures--I'd vote PHONEY
What else you got?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Dear Mike:
After reading your latest verbose fairytale ramblings, I have come to the conclusion that it is fruitless to discuss anything about dictor paul, TWIt, the Bible, or piffle with you ever again. To once again quote Thomas Paine, “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” I’m happy to discuss anything else with you, share a glass of wine some time maybe......but NO MAS on anything Bible, Wierwille, TWIt, or piffle. Bette sums up how I feel about discussing any of the aforementioned “spiritual topics” with you. Never again! LOL! TY.......and......peace.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214804932574770&set=a.10214089284524016.1073741830.1169468755&
Edited by DontWorryBeHappySpelling
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