Strictly speaking, her renting a room to 2 lesbians who allegedly were "former" lesbians is proof of nothing in that regard.
Strictly speaking, her choosing to travel with Donna on trips and choosing to share a room with exactly 1 bed is proof of nothing- but by itself, it should be enough to raise suspicions.
However, the eyewitness account of one female poster a long time ago who walked in on them immediately "after" pretty much settles it. That completes the picture. If anyone's still questioning the situation after that, it's someone who REFUSES to consider what's before them.
Yes WW those are clear accounts that put the pieces together. Of course they hide it.
I've even heard that Rosalie did something so that some of the ladies with a more open display of their relationship at HQ did not display that any longer. One of those ladies is Donna's sister.
Rosalie is past the age where a romantic or sexual relationship is of extreme interest so it is highly unlikely now that anyone is going to catch them staying at a one bedroom B and B nowadays.
One other point is that the 2 ladies in her basement sleeping in the same bed and exchanging vow rings still are partners and Rosalie personally visits them even though they are not in the Way now. She is not known to visit even her own family.
No Rocky I'm not willing to support their lie any longer just because nobody has literally caught them in the act.
That hidden relationship is why Donna didn't get kicked out with her ex husband and why she is in a position of power now.
Oldskools accounts of how placements run further exposes this. Rosalie and Donna basically decide where they want people.
They should stop living a lie and run off like Sharon and Janet into the sunset together.
There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period.
TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul!
TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago.
TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites?
I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"
Ancient populations had an issue of population control. The opposite problem of the modern world.
An idealized person would be one that helps produce offspring. The more the better. Homosexuality does not fit the idealized view. So, practically, it would be shunned. (Eventually taken to an extreme). The group's survival is more important an individual's happiness.
A modern person doesn't need that ideal. We've got more complex solutions to complex problems.
In TWI, VPW is the ideal human being. God told VPW how to interpret what he had previously told others to write down. So there's PFAL as the magic decoder system God sent via VPW to explain himself. Again.
Wayfers are always looking backward and not forward. Because, something was better about life in the First Century. I don't know what, but, dammit, it was better.
they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD.
Translations/versions aside, so do most genuine Christians.
1 hour ago, penworks said:
TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul!
I think you're grossly overstating your case. Unless things have radically changed from years ago, they do acknowledge they were written by Paul (even as other scripture was written by men.) Your point, I suppose, is that you don't believe they were written by revelation (or by however else one might care to express or communicate divine inspiration.) Then again, at this point in your life 1Thess. 2:13 probably doesn't carry much significance or bear any weight with you either. (Please don't take this as anything but that which is intended - to draw out your personal perspective on all scripture, not just what is Pauline, nor something which is exclusive to TWI.)
There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period.
TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul!
TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago.
TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites?
I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"
Ancient populations had an issue of population control. The opposite problem of the modern world.
An idealized person would be one that helps produce offspring. The more the better. Homosexuality does not fit the idealized view. So, practically, it would be shunned. (Eventually taken to an extreme). The group's survival is more important an individual's happiness.
A modern person doesn't need that ideal. We've got more complex solutions to complex problems.
In TWI, VPW is the ideal human being. God told VPW how to interpret what he had previously told others to write down. So there's PFAL as the magic decoder system God sent via VPW to explain himself. Again.
Wayfers are always looking backward and not forward. Because, something was better about life in the First Century. I don't know what, but, dammit, it was better.
Bol, your mother didn't raise a dummy! Great post!
Translations/versions aside, so do most genuine Christians.
I think you're grossly overstating your case. Unless things have radically changed from years ago, they do acknowledge they were written by Paul (even as other scripture was written by men.) Your point, I suppose, is that you don't believe they were written by revelation (or by however else one might care to express or communicate divine inspiration.) Then again, at this point in your life 1Thess. 2:13 probably doesn't carry much significance or bear any weight with you either. (Please don't take this as anything but that which is intended - to draw out your personal perspective on all scripture, not just what is Pauline, nor something which is exclusive to TWI.)
Right, this is not exclusive to TWI, of course.
And IMO what is "inspiration" is subjective. I enjoy parts of the Bible as wisdom literature, but have many questions about a lot of other parts. There is much history of the canon that's available and interests me, but no, I no longer hold to Christianity's view that the canon we see in the KJV is the Word of God in the way TWI means it. It's been a long journey for me to reach this point ... just my personal take on the situation, not meant for everyone for sure.
My point here was that anti-gay teachings are what we should not be surprised to hear coming from folks who take the Bible as the literal Word of God. What else could they really say and stay true to their belief about Scripture?
There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period.
TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul!
TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago.
TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites?
I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"
Yes penworks I agree with your logic.
In mainstream Christianity this is known as a Fundamentalist viewpoint, regardless of how they label themselves.
The most extreme Fundamentalists are the Westboro Baptist Church well known for gay bashing holding signs protesting saying God hates America because of tolerance for homosexuality.
There are other viewpoints in mainstream Christianity than extreme fundamentalism.
Knowledge still puffs up and love still builds up.
We know a gay couple where one is a minister in a small community church. Their congregation accepts them living together and don't care. Their church is growing and has an active drama club that everyone in the community loves and participates in. The minister is also an accomplished musician and they have a great musical contribution to the local community too.
I don't think the Bible is the problem. I think people are the problem.
Yes, they do say Paul's letters were "written" by Paul (just as every other book was written down on parchment or vellum or whatever by a man) but the documents, VPW insisted, are exactly what God wanted Paul and the others to write ... God told them what to write. VPW made it very clear his position was that the men were merely the writers BUT God was the author. Which led vpw to say that therefore the Bible is God's Word. That doctrine is throughout every bit of TWI teaching I ever heard. Anyone hear differently? I will never forget VPW shouting, "Either it's God's Word or it isn't!" That doesn't seem to leave any room to disagree in wayworld.
Yes, they do say Paul's letters were "written" by Paul (just as every other book was written down on parchment or vellum or whatever by a man) but the documents, VPW insisted, are exactly what God wanted Paul and the others to write ... God told them what to write. VPW made it very clear his position was that the men were merely the writers BUT God was the author. Which led vpw to say that therefore the Bible is God's Word. That doctrine is throughout every bit of TWI teaching I ever heard. Anyone hear differently? I will never forget VPW shouting, "Either it's God's Word or it isn't!" That doesn't seem to leave any room to disagree in wayworld.
God forbid you had a different opinion than VPW. You must be possessed!
Now I'm not endorsing The Way as a sound church group but why shouldn't they educate their children for a practice which they deem unnatural and immoral? You mention that they indoctrinate their people against the homosexual agenda. But on the other hand an opposite indoctrination against normal sexual relations has been active on many fronts for a number of years. Just consider the over-representation of homosexuals on TV and the movies. What are kids picking up these days? There is incredible moral confusion on many fronts-just consider men wanting to be women and vice-versa. There is a witness as to what is normal and it is our design. God makes some of His intentions plain just through the way He made us-He stamps them on the "blueprint", the plan of our physical and emotional design. The apostle Paul calls homosexual intercourse "against nature". Our bodies really have a language of their own, that we say things to each other by what we do with them. Consider this ugly but poignant point: what does it mean when a man puts that part of himself which represents the generation of life into the cavity of decay and expulsion? Well, it simply means, "Life, be swallowed up by death."
----------------------------------------------
There's no philosophical or real doctrinal discussion in The Way International. The Bible is a prop. Nothing more.
Folks in The Way were on a witch hunt. It wasn't some side topic. They weren't so much anti-gay as looking for a reason to look for bad guys. There's an Adversary to fight. He's invisible, so, just destroy . . . everything. It was the nature of the system.
Edited by Bolshevik Adversary messing with formatting again, subpar believing
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Bolshevik
In the Totalitarian System, the individual must be broken.
Individuals are not puppets of the state, but have free will. Someone like that might do something outrageous like engage in free speech.
So, one way to break down individuals is to encourage society to live in suspicion of itself.
You know that person at Twig lately? Not very open about their sex-life, are they? Probably Homo-Posesso.
Yeah, keep an eye on them. In fact, did you see the limb-leader's wife's haircut? . . . Yeah I felt it too, heavy.
It's a spiritual competition, we walk not by sight. Vigilance is key. All 9 all the time. *slow, stern, nods in agreement*
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chockfull
Bolsh you are one of my favorite posters on this site because you are different.
You have a keen intellect and a grasp beyond us all at times.
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chockfull
Yes WW those are clear accounts that put the pieces together. Of course they hide it.
I've even heard that Rosalie did something so that some of the ladies with a more open display of their relationship at HQ did not display that any longer. One of those ladies is Donna's sister.
Rosalie is past the age where a romantic or sexual relationship is of extreme interest so it is highly unlikely now that anyone is going to catch them staying at a one bedroom B and B nowadays.
One other point is that the 2 ladies in her basement sleeping in the same bed and exchanging vow rings still are partners and Rosalie personally visits them even though they are not in the Way now. She is not known to visit even her own family.
No Rocky I'm not willing to support their lie any longer just because nobody has literally caught them in the act.
That hidden relationship is why Donna didn't get kicked out with her ex husband and why she is in a position of power now.
Oldskools accounts of how placements run further exposes this. Rosalie and Donna basically decide where they want people.
They should stop living a lie and run off like Sharon and Janet into the sunset together.
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T-Bone
Or maybe drive off a cliff like Thelma & Louise
Edited by T-BoneIntegrity and accuracy
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chockfull
LOL T-Bone.
Rocky sorry I hijacked your thread here it seems. I'm linking in an old thread for the interested....
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penworks
There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period.
TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul!
TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago.
TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites?
I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"
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Bolshevik
Ancient populations had an issue of population control. The opposite problem of the modern world.
An idealized person would be one that helps produce offspring. The more the better. Homosexuality does not fit the idealized view. So, practically, it would be shunned. (Eventually taken to an extreme). The group's survival is more important an individual's happiness.
A modern person doesn't need that ideal. We've got more complex solutions to complex problems.
In TWI, VPW is the ideal human being. God told VPW how to interpret what he had previously told others to write down. So there's PFAL as the magic decoder system God sent via VPW to explain himself. Again.
Wayfers are always looking backward and not forward. Because, something was better about life in the First Century. I don't know what, but, dammit, it was better.
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TLC
Translations/versions aside, so do most genuine Christians.
I think you're grossly overstating your case. Unless things have radically changed from years ago, they do acknowledge they were written by Paul (even as other scripture was written by men.) Your point, I suppose, is that you don't believe they were written by revelation (or by however else one might care to express or communicate divine inspiration.) Then again, at this point in your life 1Thess. 2:13 probably doesn't carry much significance or bear any weight with you either. (Please don't take this as anything but that which is intended - to draw out your personal perspective on all scripture, not just what is Pauline, nor something which is exclusive to TWI.)
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Grace Valerie Claire
Penworks, yes! We have a winner!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Bol, your mother didn't raise a dummy! Great post!
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penworks
Right, this is not exclusive to TWI, of course.
And IMO what is "inspiration" is subjective. I enjoy parts of the Bible as wisdom literature, but have many questions about a lot of other parts. There is much history of the canon that's available and interests me, but no, I no longer hold to Christianity's view that the canon we see in the KJV is the Word of God in the way TWI means it. It's been a long journey for me to reach this point ... just my personal take on the situation, not meant for everyone for sure.
My point here was that anti-gay teachings are what we should not be surprised to hear coming from folks who take the Bible as the literal Word of God. What else could they really say and stay true to their belief about Scripture?
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chockfull
Yes penworks I agree with your logic.
In mainstream Christianity this is known as a Fundamentalist viewpoint, regardless of how they label themselves.
The most extreme Fundamentalists are the Westboro Baptist Church well known for gay bashing holding signs protesting saying God hates America because of tolerance for homosexuality.
There are other viewpoints in mainstream Christianity than extreme fundamentalism.
Knowledge still puffs up and love still builds up.
We know a gay couple where one is a minister in a small community church. Their congregation accepts them living together and don't care. Their church is growing and has an active drama club that everyone in the community loves and participates in. The minister is also an accomplished musician and they have a great musical contribution to the local community too.
I don't think the Bible is the problem. I think people are the problem.
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penworks
Yes, they do say Paul's letters were "written" by Paul (just as every other book was written down on parchment or vellum or whatever by a man) but the documents, VPW insisted, are exactly what God wanted Paul and the others to write ... God told them what to write. VPW made it very clear his position was that the men were merely the writers BUT God was the author. Which led vpw to say that therefore the Bible is God's Word. That doctrine is throughout every bit of TWI teaching I ever heard. Anyone hear differently? I will never forget VPW shouting, "Either it's God's Word or it isn't!" That doesn't seem to leave any room to disagree in wayworld.
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Bolshevik
A way to draw on influence of a higher authority without needing to accept responsibility of actual authority.
It's like he found the golden goose.
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Bolshevik
Remember this song?
Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be homos . . . .
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Bolshevik
Make 'em chase women (something something) drive pickups? and curse
tune of this
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Grace Valerie Claire
God forbid you had a different opinion than VPW. You must be possessed!
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Bolshevik
From the link in the original post:
Edited by BolshevikAdversary messing with formatting again, subpar believing
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