I recently listened to an interview with Mark Biltz who was the 1st to discover the blood moon phenomena that occurred during the Jewish feast days in 2014 & 2015. In that interview he mentioned that a total solar eclipse occurred over Europe in 1914 right at the beginning of World War 1. Guess what date in 1914 that occurred? August 21st! Check out this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_August_21,_1914 Just a coincidence?
On June 8th 1918 another total solar eclipse occurred but that time over the USA. The path it took is very similar to the path of the eclipse that will occur on Monday. https://eclipsewise.com/solar/SEgmap/1901-2000/SE1918Jun08Tgmap.html In 1918 during WW1 the USA had the most casualties during that time. Another coincidence?
I don't believe this has anything to do with Rev. 12 but it seems Someone is trying to get our attention. Is a major war about to break out?
Yes, at the least I think that someone is trying to get our attention, signs are everywhere. Whether this is The Return in September or October or beyond is up for debate. I see all these things as signs from the One who created the Heavens. Perhaps the major war is the one that comes after The Return:
Revelation 13:5-18
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The anti-Christ is referred to as the Destroyer in the book of Revelation. He is one of and chief of the original fallen angels that were sent to the Abyss by God after the flood. He also has a "right hand man" sidekick who represents the god of war and commerce and is called "The False Prophet". What happens is a deadly game of war and suffering with man as the pawns and men's allegiance the goal.
II Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly
Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that... the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Enoch is mentioned a few verses later in this chapter, since he was also an end times prophet.
Jude 1:14-16
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Toexecute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage
Revelation 9:1-2,11
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit....
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Here the Bible meets Greek "mythology" there is a definite connection between the fallen angels, the nephilem, the Greek god Apollo or Apollyon, and the anti-christ.
The false prophet, deluding and deceiving the people of earth into following the antichrist.
Revelation 13:13-15
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Then, the Antichrist's and False Prophet's government form a club, unless you join and you become a member, you will be boycotted. You will not be able to buy or sell unless you bear the mark of the Beast on your hand or forehead proving membership. Funny how it sounds like the way some governments are mirroring this club mentality all of a sudden, makes you wonder what shocking thing's next. A company in Wisconsin this month has already started this process by chipping some 40 employees with their vital and bank card information under the skin with a microchip between the thumb and forefinger. The company that sells these chips is from Sweden and boasts some 3k European users already.
Revelation 13:16-18 (NIV)
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his fore-head, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the Beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the Beast, for it is a man’s number. His number is 666.
Pretty sobering. God help those people left behind.
Revelation 14:9-13
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
It will be a tough choice for those who have a family and children to support and take care of.
Revelation 6:4
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Mars, the red planet, was also a god, he was a god in the pre flood era with Apollo. He is also known as the god of War...there is a war coming.
Revelation 6:5,6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The color black and bread sold by weight in the Bible is a marker of famine. Commerce is depicted by the rider with the balances in hand. Interesting the oil and wine are spared, or protected, perhaps the great commerce of the world's wealthiest and elites will stay wealthy so as to aid the government in place. Worldwide famine will be present during the tribulation, many will die.
In mythology, Mercury is the god of War, the Roman name for him is Hermes, who also acted as a messenger between the gods and man, and in Latin the word is mercurius, where the words merchandise and merchant are derived.
For what it's worth I've had a personal experience that kinda relates to this stuff that sort of threw all my dear paradigms into a tizzy. It was after 9/11 happened, I felt like a dark cloud of confusion was spread over my head - even entertained ideas like: the rapture had already happened and I was among those left behind, or the mid-trib folks were right, or there is no God and somehow we're now in the hi-gear-to-annihilation-mode....needless to say I've tempered my viewpoint with some flexibility / adaptability - maybe I'm a little bit of a "philosophical prepper " now to go along with any contingency planning.
Regarding this topic, of late I tend to look more at what's going on in the Middle East and also in the rest of the world politically / economically , details of the "third temple" and other stuff in light of scripture alluding to future events like in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 - - and of course Revelation too - but I don't get hung up in trying to decipher all the symbolism - I try to get a feel for the back drop of unfolding events - how things will come into place politically and economically..
..folks have always played guessing games on who is the antichrist and what is the mark of the beast, how close are we to the return of Christ...I know Jesus said no one but the Father knows the hour...I mean...all that stuff is interesting but I feel some groups so fixate on these things I tend to think they're disconnected with the here and now - like they're punching a clock and can't wait for quitting time....
...(SNIP)
Having said that awhile back…and thinking of the upcoming astronomical event of September 23rd, I’m not going to make any predictions here – just stating the obvious – things have been getting dicey for a while now...if there’s anything to biblical prophecies – everything going on politically, economically, socially, etc. seems to be a protracted setup that one way or another will change the world as we know it - consider the following links:
I believe Jesus Christ will return – and that he will change how things get done in ways that we can’t even imagine – no matter how many times we’ve studied prophecy… How well do you feel you’re prepared? I’m not asking along the lines of a come-to-Jesus meeting…I’m just thinking out loud – how prepared am I if things don’t play out exactly like I thought they would. Will Christ return pre, mid, or post tribulation period? Is the interpretation of the book of Revelation to be based on Preterism, Futurism, Historicism, or Idealism…or any combination therewith…and how will the millennial period unfold? Are you absolutely sure you know the answer?
I’m not meaning to be a downer – my post is cautionary…that’s all… just saying sometimes I don’t even place any faith in certain of my pet doctrines. In times like that I lean to something…or rather someone who far outranks me…someone who has been around for a long time…and is more real than my favorite bible studies…that someone is Jesus Christ:
“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away.2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.4 I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you,5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things.But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you…7
33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”…John 16: 1-7, 33 NIV
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36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns…Matthew 24: 36-46 NIV
I hear ya T-Bone, not to mention the Hurricanes of unusual size, Harvey, Irma, & any other pending Tropical depressions, the Mexico City earthquake, and the wholesale deception of the American public in this last election that is still leading people captive ushering in what is prophecied in Revelation.
Here is a quote from Jesus Christ Himself:
Revelation 3:1-6
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I think the words for today are to watch and be ready.
I'm briefly posting an excerpt of an article with a lot of heart, I'll post more later.
It is a summation of sorts of what I've previously posted. The last 2 paragraphs are stellar.
"The rarity of the signs and the linkage should bring no question to their importance. These signs will not occur again anytime soon and one is spelled out clearly in the final book of the Bible. As Jesus said, there would be signs in the heavens, and if these are not them, then what else could we possibly be looking for? In the end there are no alternatives.
The Revelation 12 Sign of the Woman has been there in the text for all to read for nearly two thousand years. It is the only great sign mentioned in the Bible. That should be a big hint and a hint we all failed to see until very recently. It has been a neon flashing sign so big that it was missed in plain sight. The problem was that many saw this sign as a picture before Jesus was born, but no such alignment occurs then. It is also not an allegory of non-conclusive heavenly imagery to make Revelation colorful. It is a sign in the physical heavens and it is in just a few months.
The Revelation 12 Sign occurs in the “after these things” portion of Revelation, which happens after the Church passages of Chapters 2-3 or “the things which are”. This is then a future sign physically in the heavens concerning the final time. Revelation 12 is a unique part of the Book of Revelation as it comes after the seven seals and seven trumpets with the kingdoms of the world becoming Christ’s. The end of chapter 11 describes the end of the seven-year 70th Week. Chapter 12 begins another perspective of Revelation and the Sign of the Woman lays out the overall salvation plan of God from the beginning. The Woman represents Israel whose Seed is the Messiah. The Sign of the Woman on September 23, 2017 then fits with Micah 5 where Israel is given up until the Woman gives birth again.
““But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” Therefore He shall give them up, until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren shall return to the children of Israel.” Micah 5:2-3 NKJV
Notice how our Lord gives up the children of Israel until she who is in labor has given birth and then the remnant of Israel returns. This giving up period is the duration of the Church and the Church has not replaced Israel. So the question then is, what is this birth? Is it merely this Sign of Revelation 12 or is the birth that of the corporate Body of Christ when the Church is transformed at the Rapture? The time we are truly born again, as blood and flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? The child in Revelation 12:4 is taken (harpazo) to be delivered from the Dragon who brings the Antichrist. Is that not what the Rapture is about? Christ was not taken to heaven to be delivered. He gave His life for us and effectively crushed the Serpent’s head. It would seem this Sign of Revelation 12 speaks of Corporate Israel bringing forth the Corporate Body of Christ that is taken to heaven before the Nation of Israel endures the final hour.
This sign in the heavens then appropriately looks to mark this transition and transformation. September 20-23 is then a great moment to pay attention. On September 20, the alignment of the Great Pyramid speaks to the coming of our wounded Savior as the Morning Star-King on the morning before the observed day for the Feast of Trumpets—the Last Trump to which Paul referred to as the time of the Church’s gathering by resurrection. It is the opinion here the observed calendar is correct since many events and calculations have occurred according to the observed calendar. But again, we are talking merely a two day difference between the 21st and the 23rd of September. Trying to nail down the exact moment is in the end difficult to do. It would seem wise to not be so concerned over the fine details and realize that three days is still a pretty narrow focus for the transition. We can probably watch all of these days.
So it would appear the Sign of the Woman signals the soon onset of the 70th Week of Daniel. This Sign is not going to happen for at least another 1,000 years. In the end this comes down to faith and consideration of what all points to these dates. It would seem to behoove us all to take the possibilities, at least, seriously. These signs of 2017 again do not occur in a vacuum. They have support from the Lunar Tetrads and Conjunctions, as well as the progression of events in the world centered around Israel. It is the time.
We may be down to our final weeks as the Church to witness to the remainder of the world that is lost. However, the world does seem to know that all is not well and doomsday approaches. Indeed it is. The question comes down to what a person does with Jesus and the gift he offered through his death on the cross. Whatever point of history we are in, that is the question. That is the bottom line. Believing in Christ and accepting his gift of pure grace is what will deliver us. It is the only thing that can save us. We will soon see that the world cannot save itself. Scripture promises that it will soon be humanity's darkest hour. Those who believe now will be taken to be with the Lord in likely a few short months. The rest will then have to endure the coming dark hour and many will decide. Now is the time of salvation. Our Lord will soon reign over the Earth."
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16-17 NKJV
T-Bone I wanted to say that at one point in my end times studies I had to go to the scriptures to make sure we weren't going have to endure the tribulation, but then I read all the scriptures in the epistles that confirm the tribulation will not happen till there's a falling away first, there are an overwhelming number of scriptures in that vein. So many preach the opposite though partially confusing to whom it is addressed, Israel will endure the Tribulation but will be redeemed and accept the Messiah during that period, but we who have believed Christ now, will be in heaven.
I also wanted to take the time to address "no one knows" references in scripture. Watch and be sober, be ready, is quite clear in many scriptures too. Do the scriptures really say, 'no one knows'? Let's take a more indepth look at the scriptures including the greek.
"When Jesus explains the time of the end in Matthew 24 to the disciples, we have all failed to understand the intent of the passage at the time it was given. Clearly Jesus details signs that must occur at the end of the age for when he will set up his kingdom. We must remember this comes just days after Jesus presented himself as the king in the Triumphal Entry on Palm Sunday. A number of Jews were hoping Jesus would establish his kingdom right then and there. We know that did not happen, but they were still confused and did not grasp what was coming in a couple of days to fulfill Passover. Consider this famous passage of Peter who did not understand what the Christ must first do in Mark 8:31-32:
And He (Jesus) began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him.
Why did Peter not like this teaching? It was because Peter did not understand the two advents of Christ. Peter wanted the kingdom now, but that was not what was going to happen.
Consider this passage from Acts 1:6:
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Even before Jesus ascended to heaven it was hoped that Jesus would establish his kingdom. We must remember that the disciples were struggling to grasp the whirlwind of events of those weeks. Of course Jesus knew this. So then, let us go back between Palm Sunday and the Crucifixion in the Passion Week when Jesus takes the disciples aside as recorded in the Olivet Discourse and presents them many signs that will occur. Jesus explains all of what must happen, but then he says:
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. – Matthew 24:36
This is the verse everyone seems “to know” by saying “no one can know” when anyone discusses the nearness of Jesus’ return, but that is entirely wrong. The Greek word used for “knows” is εiδω and it is in the perfect active indicative. It should be rendered as “has seen” as in completed action up to that point. Jesus is communicating the time of the end to disciples who do not truly understand the outflow of events that are coming. Jesus is yet to be crucified, buried, raised, and ascended. Jesus explains that no one has seen the time of the end, because it is not occurring at that time. Jesus is not restoring the kingdom as they are hoping will be done. Jesus is trying to drive that point home. He is not intending the message for us in the future to not know and see what he clearly revealed. His message is to the disciples who do not understand. No disciple has seen what Jesus just explained because it is still in the future. No one has seen or is seeing it. That is Jesus’ intent of saying that sentence. He is saying those events are not happening now, but are still in the future.
But of that day and hour no one has seen, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. – Matthew 24:36
And so what does Jesus say to do next? He continues and tells us to watch. Here εiδω is used again and is “has seen”. Here is Jesus command to watch in Matthew 24:42:
Watch therefore, for you have not seen (or have not known) what hour your Lord is coming.
So the Church begins its life ten days after Jesus ascends to Heaven and still no one had seen of that day or hour. What then is the Church to do? Watch. We watch so that we might know. Is this consistent with other passages of Scripture? Absolutely. They are in harmony. There is no conflict whatsoever. Consider these:
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. –1 Thessalonians 5:3-6
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. –Hebrews 10:24-25
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. –Revelation 3:3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John. –Revelation 1:1
Jesus has given us Revelation and the Scriptures are clear that we watch to know. There is no excuse. It is not biblically consistent, yet it is a majority understanding that “we cannot know, so watching is really a waste of time”. Really? The Great Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12 forms in the heavens in 4 weeks! What could be more clear? The evidence is overwhelming yet the Church is largely sleeping and lost in the cares of life. Clueless. Unbelievable. However, have we not seen this before when Jesus came 2,000 years ago? People stuck in their traditions and doctrines of men? We are in crunch time and it is truly not the time be confused. God is not that author. "
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And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch! – Mark 13:37
Jesus' ministry to Israel, the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Heaven, all play a role in decerning passages when dealing with Gods covenant with the Jews, Old Testament prophecy regarding promises to Israel of a Heavenly abode and 2nd coming of the Savior, Israel's recognition of the Christ as Jesus, the apostles mission to the Jews after the Ascension, the second coming of Christ, and the grafting in of the Church after the rejection of the Jews. I believe plans got scrapped, doors closed, Paul said I go unto the Gentiles when Israel refused to accept the Messiah Jesus Christ. What was to be after Christ arose and what Israel hoped for was put in abeyance, to our benefit, we became plan B.
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Another member on this forum, Sunesis, wrote a very good post explaining this transition, here is a portion of their post:
"For a little background, I believe the Bible, as I've read it over the years, is essentially, a book of prophecy. It concerns a coming Redeemer (Christ), and a coming Kingdom on earth (the Kingdom - which for our purposes here, includes the New City Jerusalem which Abraham looked for - it will be part of this Kingdom). Ok, so:
1. The OT prophesies Messiah will come.
2. Gospels - Messiah arrives. His ministry is to the JEWS ONLY. This is important. He does miracles - which are signs to Israel. They show and prove that he is the prophesised Messiah. Also, here comes another important part:
3. Messiah/Jesus preaches what? He preaches to the Jews: The Kingdom is at hand, all is ready. Believe on me (note: in the OT, for the Kingdom to arrive, all Israel must turn to the Messiah and he will bring in the Kingdom). So - its here!
4. Jesus is rejected and killed by his people.
5. But, he has 12 Apostles who were commissioned to preach Jesus - to the Jew first.
6. Acts: Peter at pentecost says "repent - the Kingdom is at hand." The Apostles preaching was to Israel. Peter quotes Joel - a prophecy to Israel.
If you continue to read Acts, those who believed had the Holy spirit in them. They did signs and miracles.
Why? Because they were signs that the Kingdom was at hand. Signs again to Israel. They were a foretaste of what would be normal, daily life in the Kingdom walking in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The 12 Apostles were like, the last call at a bar, last chance - repent, Christ is standing on the right hand of God - the Kingdom is here. He will still return if you desire it!
So, Israel has had prophets, the Word, the Law, the King arrives, then finally - the Apostles.
After all this they say - NO.
What happens? What is God's plan for if Israel should reject their Messiah and Kingdom?
Acts 28 - Paul now begins his ministry to the Gentiles. The Kingdom is not coming. To emphasize this, the Romans come destroy the Temple, Jews are scattered.
A new administration begins. All of Pauls NT writings: Romans, Corinthians, Galations, I and II Thessalonians were written BEFORE Acts 28. The Kingdom and signs were still being done, in fact they were so common, Paul has to tell them in Corinthians - whoa dudes, here's how to handle them! At this point believing Gentiles are also "grafted" into Israel's hope.
What was Israel's Hope? The Messiah and the Kingdom. In Acts 26 Paul still says, I preach nothing but the Hope of Israel. During Acts, Gentiles were, by grace, allowed to partake of this Hope.
So, how did Paul go, from healing people, to leaving Melitius at Trophimas sick, to Timothy being sickly, to a total lack of miracles? What happened, why did they stop and he wasn't healing people anymore?
Different administration - beginning in Acts 28:26, where the prophecy for the third time is cited: hearing they will not hear, seeing they will not see, etc... I go to the Gentiles.
It was after the book of Acts, after Israel has rejected the final offer, in the prison Epistles (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, I and II Timothy, Philemon and Titus) that Paul has a revelation from God - the cherry on top.
It is: God has called a people who will people heaven. In Ephesians we are told we have Power. We do not need the "signs" for Israel anymore since the prophetic clock has stopped and Christ is now building a "new man" - a "new creation." Whose home will be in the heavenlies. The believer's hope in this day and age is: Heaven. Our hope is not the earthly Kingdom - that is Israel's.
Once the "days of the Gentiles" are fulfilled, in Revelation God will then deal again with Israel and Gentile - for the final time. This time Israel will all call upon the Lord."
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For further research on Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven here's a good reference page:
Hey T-Bone, my pleasure, thanks for reading it and commenting, if the day is not next week, at least it's got us thinking about the possibility and maybe drawing closer to Our Father and His Son...there's one more post though :)
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
I Thessalonians 5:4
I want to give some backstory to fill in the gaps of some of the history of things referred to in some key verses, and some of the upcoming events that have been discussed.
The Apostle Paul prophetically speaks of the day of The Return:
I Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
The backstory of the phrase of the "last trump"...a series of 100 trumpet/horn sounds, or blows, on Rosh Hashanah:
"The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment.
The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping.
The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing."
"The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note.
– In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed."
The blowing of the trumpet is the only actual command in the Hebrew Scriptures as to how this feast is to be observed, but the Bible does not give any reason for it. And where the Bible fails to give a reason, the rabbis felt a need to provide one.
a. In the blowing of the Shofar the Talmud gives 10 rabbinic reasons.
b. There are also three main purposes for Blowing the Shofar.
c. Rabbi Saadiah Gaon (882-942 CE) gives 10 reasons for the blowing of the Shofar, but only one will be mentioned because it is practiced today in rabbinic Judaism.
– to introduce the ten days of penitence that comes between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement.
d. The Three Meanings of the Blowing of the Trumpets:
(1) First, it was a symbol of the final regathering of Israel when the Messiah comes.
(2) Second, it was a symbol of the resurrection from the dead.
(3) Third, on this day (Feast of Trumpets) three different books will be open in Heaven. One is called the Book of Righteousness. Those who were perfectly righteous would have their names inscribed in the Book of Life and they would live another year. The second book is called the Book of the Wicked or the Book of the Dead and those whose names are inscribed in this book would die during the year. Most people are neither totally righteous nor totally wicked, so there is a third book call the Book of the In Between. Those inscribed in the third book are given ten days to repent – the ten days between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement.
(4) The Trumpet Blasts:
The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment.
The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping.
The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing.
The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note.
– In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed."
"1. Zicharon Truah: Means “memorial of triumph” or the “shout for joy.”
This phrase is found in Leviticus 23:24 and the literal meaning is “a remembrance of blowing.” The phrase shouting for you is found in Job 38:7 where all the sons of God shout for joy. Rabbinic Judaism teaches that God created the heavens and the earth on the Feast of Trumpets so it was on this occasion that the angels shouted for joy."
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It's Interesting that the Hebrew word for trumpets is actually "the blowing of Trumpets". The Hebrew words originally for Feast of Trumpets was Yom Teruah. God used trumpets when giving Moses the Law on Mt Sinai when communicating to the Children of Israel in the desert.
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall you have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. –Leviticus 23:24
"The Hebrew word for "trumpets" is not actually found in Leviticus 23:24 the Hebrew "teruah" is translated blowing of trumpets. This is a memorial to commemorate a future start of the Messianic Kingdom with the return of Messiah Yeshua. Since Yom Teruah relates to the seventh new moon it shows the perfection of Yahweh's plan for salvation through Messiah Yeshua. This is also a connection between the torah and Messiah. The blowing of the shofar was the thunder that the children of Israel heard when Moses was given the law on Mt. Sinai.
And all the people saw the thunder, and the lightning, and the noise of the trumpet (shofar), and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed themselves, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, You speak with us, and we will hear: but don't let Elohim speak with us, or we will die. And Moses said to the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, so that you don't sin.
The word "trumpet" in Exodus 20:18 is the Hebrew word "shofar" (Strong's #7782). This loud shofar blast really scared the people so much so that they asked Moses to speak with Yahweh for them. Solomon was inspired to write that the fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 9:10) Yeshua demonstrated this wisdom throughout his life by giving the glory to Yahweh. We must forsake evil and live like Yeshua! Sin should be the farthest thing from our mind. We are Yeshua's chosen if we live as he teaches."
(Regarding the day of Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah/modern Jewish New Year/aka Rosh Hashanah in the city of Jerusalem.)
"Like many other Jewish festivals, its customs center around the synagogue and home, where large festive meals are prepared for family and friends....On the Jewish new year many hours are spent in synagogues around the city, and the city’s shops close, creating a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere, an obvious contrast to regular days when Jerusalem bustles with activity.
Walk down to the Western Wall (Kotel) to see thousands of people congregating for special prayers. You may even get to hear the shofar (ram’s horn) blown, a central part of the prayer services on Rosh Hashanah....
Rosh Hashana 2017 begins the eve (sunset) of Wednesday, September 20 and ends Friday, September 22 after sunset. Check out some of the events around town during and around the holiday…"
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Explanation of dark moon or hidden moon, where no man knew the day or hour, new moon which starts the 2 day High Holy Day of Rosh Hashanah's period:
The Feast of Trumpets-Yom Teruah-Ross Hashana is the only Jewish holiday that starts on the new moon, the 1st day of the lunar month where it is a moon that is not visible, it is also called the dark moon, the hidden moon, the concealed moon, hidden from everyone. The new moon is when it is not seen, the day no one knows the day or hour.
"Because everyone was to celebrate the Feast of Trumpets and it always fell on the 1st day of the lunar month, based on the (physical) sighting of the new moon, it was known as the Feast where no one ever “knew the day or the hour” it would come. The Jews in Babylon and elsewhere were to keep it as well but it would take a day to get them the news so it was always kept for 2 days and was known as “one long day ”. It was to be a day symbolically hid from Satan so even he would not be sure of its arrival!"
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Psalm 81:4
Sound the shofar to mark the new month, time of concealment of our Festival day.
The dark moon was and is the marker to start the holiday of The Feast of Trumpets. The moon is concealed or hidden in darkness. This year the new moon starts in Jerusalem at 8:29am on Sept 20th, although the feast of Trumpets is a 2 day event by tradition, mainly because of the difficulty in surety of sighting the new moon, so the official day is Sept 21st. The new moon is a 2 day dark moon as well. Moon phases for this month in Jerusalem are here: https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/israel/jerusalem
We have the technology now to pinpoint lunar phases, in Old Testament time, weather providing, they had to physically use their eyes to find out.
You can plug in the name of the city and state you live in in the above link to see what date and hour your time zone synchronizes with the new moon in Jerusalem time, for the start of Rosh Hashana is this month.
Acts 1:11
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
According to the Jewish calendar The Feast of Trumpets begins on the first day of the 7th month, Tishrei, the first day of the lunar cycle, the new moon, the dark hiddenmoon, which also corresponds to the anniversary of the Jewish date of the creation of Adam and Eve, coincidentally.
"On November 20, 2016, an astronomical event begins that will last nine and a half months, culminating in startling concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12. While I am not an astronomer, all my research indicates that this astronomical event, in all its particulars, is unique in the history of man.
On November 20, 2016, Jupiter (the King planet) enters into the body (womb) of the constellation Virgo (the virgin). Jupiter, due its retrograde motion, will spend the next 9 ½ months within the womb of Virgo. This length of time corresponds with gestation period of a normal late-term baby.
After 9 ½ months, Jupiter exits out of the womb of Virgo. Upon Jupiter’s exit (birth), on September 23, 2017, we see the constellation Virgo with the sun rise directly behind it (the woman clothed with the sun). At the feet of Virgo, we find the moon. And upon her head we find a crown of twelve stars, formed by the usual nine stars of the constellation Leo with the addition of the planets Mercury, Venus, and Mars. That is a truly remarkable and, as far as I can determine, unique series of event with a startling degree of concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12"....
"So what was the Star of Bethlehem? As mentioned, I think there is a compelling case that the Star of Bethlehem was a series of astronomical events with significant symbolism. More detail can be seen at BethlehemStar.net, but I will attempt a brief summary.
In 3/2 B.C., there occurred a rare triple conjunction of Jupiter (the king planet, through its retrograde motion) and Regulus (the king star). The Magi likely interpreted this rare triple conjunction as a giant neon sign in the heavens blinking KING-KING-KING. This all began at the Jewish New year and all within the constellation of Leo (the lion, a symbol of the tribe of Judah). So it heavily symbolized Jewish King from the tribe of Judah, a clear indication for those familiar with the Messiah. Further, rising right behind Leo was the constellation Virgo, with the sun and the moon at her feet. After this incredible triple conjunction, Jupiter began moving westward in the sky, eventually coming into conjunction with Venus, a planet long symbolically associated with motherhood. The conjunction of the king planet and the motherhood planet was so close, that no man alive had ever seen anything like it and together it formed the brightest object in the sky.
All this symbolism of a Jewish king from Judah and a Virgin was enough to get the well-versed Magi moving to Jerusalem, but you can understand why the average citizen of Jerusalem missed it.
Jupiter continued its western movement in the sky until it finally stopped. When it stopped (as seen from Jerusalem), it stopped directly south, directly over the small village of Bethlehem, on December 25 of 2 B.C.
This may be easily seen with modern star programs that can show you the night sky on any date in history from any perspective. It is the advent of such computer programs that now allows us to not only look at the past, but to look at the skies of the future.
Given the context of all I just described, it is when we turn our gaze to the heavens of the future that once again we are treated to heavenly signs of great symbolism."
The opening verses of Revelation 12.
And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
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The Jupiter and Venus Conjunctions
The planets representing the Messiah-Jupiter/Venus-His Glory-the bright and morning star
"While much talk of the final tetrad of 2014-2015 ensued, set at the same time were the remarkable conjunctions of Jupiter and Venus. At first the rarity of these conjunctions was not fully realized. The group of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions that just occurred were in a unique class with the four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions before Christ’s birth. In 9,400 years of Solex data Jupiter-Venus conjunction of June 17, 2 BC was the closest and longest observable conjunction over that entire period. From AD 1900-2100 the closest observable conjunction of Jupiter-Venus was on August 27, 2016. These two groups of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions in 3-1 BC and AD 2014-2016 both cover the same duration of time and both have two conjunctions each in Leo. With regards to 2014-2016, the nearest set of four conjunctions occurred in 1790-1792 and will occur in 2145-2147. At TheChristmasStar.org, Jim Dodge explains this and argues that out of the 9400 years of Solex data, these two groups are unique and the placement of the 2014-2016 conjunctions is no accident. As we examine them, that should become more obvious."
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Commentary:
Those are the explanative sections above, next are the surmising sections. Who can be sure they know the date? None of us, but so much points to next week. If it's God's time to raise the dead and gather His Church, then we must prepare ourselves mentally and spiritually to present ourselves to Him.
"September 20–Wednesday: At dawn at Giza there is the alignment of Regulus-Venus at the Christ Angle above the horizon in the
east. This is the Sign of the Great Pyyramid. About two hours after this alignment, the moon will reach conjunction.
September 21–Thursday: The new moon and Feast of Trumpets according to the observed calendar.
This day of the concealed moon looks to be the day of our concealment and hiding. The day of the Harpazo/Rapture of the Church to the throne of God to be one complete ruling body with the Man-Child. This happens before the labor
of the Tribulation.
September 22–Friday: The Autumn Equinox. The potential first day without the Restrainer. All who were righteous through
believing in the work of Jesus Christ are gone and the unrighteous will now be unhindered for forming what they think will be their utopia.
September 23–Saturday: The Sabbath of Return. The Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12:1-2 fulfilled in heaven.
The woman is pictured in pain to deliver a child. This is a sign for Israel and Israel will now be the torch bearer with the Church body gone. With the disappearance of the righteous on the Feast of Trumpets and this sign, Israel will begin their return to Jesus the Messiah. From this day it is 2,576 days to the Day of Atonement 2024 on October 12th. Counting 2,520 inclusive days from November 19, 2017 will land on October 12, 2024–the Day of Atonement. 2,550 days (1290 days from the mid-point) will come to November 11, 2024 and 2,595 days (1335 days from the mid-point) will come
December 26, 2024 and Hanukkah. From September 23rd to what appears to be the beginning of the Tribulation would be 8 weeks. It was also 8 weeks from the end of the “69 weeks” of Daniel on Palm Sunday until the Conception of the Church (thanks to Scott Clarke) on Pentecost Sunday.
This is the layout according to this author of the coming week of anticipation. It is understood here that many who espouse the Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12 hold to a different view on how to place the events associated with this sign. The reality is that we all have put the events within a few days of each other. Whatever happens, we will all be paying attention to each of the days and remaining alert. While this author at this time does not see how we can make it past this coming week in September, we must be prepared for whatever may come. Our faith should hold and remain firm in the clear teaching of the Bible and act accordingly.
"The Catholic Church explicitly condemns astrology, as it does all forms of divination (CCC 2116). But signs like the Star of Bethlehem are not divination of fates ordered by the stars, but regular astronomy and symbology with the idea that the God of the universe sometimes uses His creation to communicate with man. The bible is replete with instances that make this case. Psalm 19 states:
1 …The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world…
— PSALM 19:1-4
Paul directly quotes this Psalm in Romans when making the case that the Jews had knowledge that the Messiah had come.
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they [the Jews] not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
— ROMANS 10:17-18
Paul is clearly making the case that the Jews had knowledge of the Messiah because the heavens told them so. Obviously Paul is not endorsing astrology, but indicating that God can and does sometimes use the heavens to announce His plans. There is much more that can be said on the differences between astrology and understanding heavenly signs, but suffice it for now to say that looking to the heavens for confirmation and announcement of God’s plans is legitimate within the proper context and application."
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This is speculation on my part, but I wonder if the imagery of a pregnant woman in travail of birth suddenly, with destruction and no escape, in the verse following, has anything to do with the Sign of the appearing 2 days after the Feast of Trumpets, (given the Jewish 2 day feast of trumps tradition), ushering in the travail the trials of the tribulation period of 7 years of Destruction by the Destroyer, if the Feast is to be the date of the gathering? Coincidental?
Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
Perhaps this is the main reason of the linear massing of planets around Virgo-The Virgin-the bride-Israel-as a sign of what's coming to those who are left behind? Does this explain why the occurrence in Revelation 12, an end times book given to John by Christ directly to address and expose end times occurrences specifically, speaks of this constellation of the Woman clothed with the sun with the moon at her feet 12 stars at her head as a sign to Israel, et al, after we're gone?
I Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
We see that all these things in the night & pre-dawn skies have been occurring for 9 1/2 months since November 20th, 2016, replete with Star of Bethlehem style retrograde motion of Jupiter in Virgo, all culminating on September23rd this year. Do you still think our God only uses signs in the skies for births? The one in Rev 12 is there for the first and only time in history forming today in the language of Heavenly math and science. Look up at night toward the east, and look at the stars aligning for Giza now one hour before sunrise, I saw them this morning and last nite. Do you still deny God is purposefully doing this?
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So we see last trump has a special meaning of Jewish tradition and history thru the ages, yet it appears the "Last Trump", the hidden, concealed, no one knows the day or the hour explained makes sense and is not so elusive. Paul indicates it will be incorporated into an event especially for the Church of the One Body-the Gathering of the wild olive branch. An event where the city of Jerusalem shuts down and every Jewish person will be in worship and witness the blowing of horns of shofar.
This shows that God set the standard for man according to His seasons and signs. His people, Israel, are still vitally involved with God's plan. We must not forget that we were the ones grafted in and allowed to share with Israel only because they rejected the Christ, but God in His great mercy will regain what was lost, their Heavenly City will come to pass, and so we are entwined with them eternally as they are the tree.
The scriptures have prophecied Israel will repent during the tribulation and God will restore Israel. Perhaps the plan is to use the Gathering on this Feast day as a witness to those left behind who are the good olive tree, the Children of Israel, the purpose of the planet and the ages, to whom Christ was sent to. Still think Jewish customs and dates don't apply to us? The history of man on earth has revolved around Israel since the Garden and will continue to do so until His Holy city, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth, a home for His people.
I think the word of the lord was opened, outpoured and given to this generation so we could herald it to all the world before this age ends and also to leave a body of work for those left behind who decide to believe and not succumb to the mark of the beast.
It think that maybe the purpose of the astral Sign of the Woman convergence in the skies on Sept 23rd may be a sign to those left behind who will believe, as in the verses about the 5 virgins who thought about filling their lamps with oil but didn't get around to it, and discovered their error too late.
For us, the day that everything seems to point to appears to be September 21st, the Feast of Trumpets, the High Holy Day Holiday. One reason why it appears this way to me is the verses by the Apostle Paul who prophetically speaks of the day of The Return:
I Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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From:http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html
"Three days prior to the Sign of the Woman, the heavens align as mapped by the Giza Pyramid Complex. Just before the sun dawns, the star in Orion's Belt that the Great Pyramid represents is exactly at meridian. Also at this moment of time, Regulus, the King Star of Leo is at the Christ Angle above the eastern horizon. What is the Christ Angle? It is the angle of the Great Pyramid’s ascending and descending passageways. That angle applied north of east from the Great Pyramid will bisect Bethlehem. So at dawn September 20, 2017, Regulus is at the Christ Angle, but so is the Morning Star/Venus because it is in conjunction with Regulus. Coincidentally, this occurs the morning before the Feast of Trumpets. This alignment has not been found to repeat in any year through the year 2200, which puts us well beyond a generation from seeing the return of Israel.
These signs of September 2017 are not alone. Planetary conjunctions similar to the time before Christ was born also occurred within the past few years and the calculations are stunning. This along with the tetrad of lunar eclipses occurring on the Festivals of the Lord in 2014-2015 produces a time like no other and we are in the middle of it with less than nine months before September 20-23, 2017. The alarms should be sounding in the many churches of the world, but are they hearing them? Are we telling them?"
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John 3:17-21
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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This website has great insightful articles and archives:
5. But, he has 12 Apostles who were commissioned to preach Jesus - to the Jew first.
6. Acts: Peter at pentecost says "repent - the Kingdom is at hand." The Apostles preaching was to Israel. Peter quotes Joel - a prophecy to Israel.
If you continue to read Acts, those who believed had the Holy spirit in them. They did signs and miracles.
Why? Because they were signs that the Kingdom was at hand. Signs again to Israel. They were a foretaste of what would be normal, daily life in the Kingdom walking in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The 12 Apostles were like, the last call at a bar, last chance - repent, Christ is standing on the right hand of God - the Kingdom is here. He will still return if you desire it!
So, Israel has had prophets, the Word, the Law, the King arrives, then finally - the Apostles.
After all this they say - NO.
What happens? What is God's plan for if Israel should reject their Messiah and Kingdom?
Acts 28 - Paul now begins his ministry to the Gentiles. The Kingdom is not coming. To emphasize this, the Romans come destroy the Temple, Jews are scattered.
A new administration begins. All of Pauls NT writings: Romans, Corinthians, Galations, I and II Thessalonians were written BEFORE Acts 28. The Kingdom and signs were still being done, in fact they were so common, Paul has to tell them in Corinthians - whoa dudes, here's how to handle them! At this point believing Gentiles are also "grafted" into Israel's hope.
What was Israel's Hope? The Messiah and the Kingdom. In Acts 26 Paul still says, I preach nothing but the Hope of Israel. During Acts, Gentiles were, by grace, allowed to partake of this Hope.
So, how did Paul go, from healing people, to leaving Melitius at Trophimas sick, to Timothy being sickly, to a total lack of miracles? What happened, why did they stop and he wasn't healing people anymore?
Different administration - beginning in Acts 28:26, where the prophecy for the third time is cited: hearing they will not hear, seeing they will not see, etc... I go to the Gentiles.
It was after the book of Acts, after Israel has rejected the final offer, in the prison Epistles (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, I and II Timothy, Philemon and Titus) that Paul has a revelation from God - the cherry on top.
It is: God has called a people who will people heaven. In Ephesians we are told we have Power. We do not need the "signs" for Israel anymore since the prophetic clock has stopped and Christ is now building a "new man" - a "new creation." Whose home will be in the heavenlies. The believer's hope in this day and age is: Heaven. Our hope is not the earthly Kingdom - that is Israel's.
Once the "days of the Gentiles" are fulfilled, in Revelation God will then deal again with Israel and Gentile - for the final time. This time Israel will all call upon the Lord."
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For further research on Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven here's a good reference page:
While I somewhat agree with the kingdoms link, I don't think it likely that the 12 apostles ever thought that they were commissioned (or that it was their task, however you want to say it) to "preach Jesus" to the Gentiles. Fact is, they were specifically commanded not to by Jesus himself. Well... perhaps you suppose Acts 1:8 nullified or changed that. But, take a real honest to goodness look at it, and think... did it, really? Who said or told you that this means (or meant) anything about being a witness to the Gentile (aka, dogs) of the world? Were not some of their own brethren already scattered unto the uttermost part of the earth? And, if they thought it meant (what most Christians nowadays seem to think it means) that they were to evangelize to all throughout the earth... then how does that fit or get reconciled to the plain fact that the 12 refused to leave Jerusalem in spite of the intense persecution there, that Peter had to be so strongly coerced to even darken the doorway to the house of Cornelius, or that by the time of Acts 11:19 (which some think a good 8 or 9 yearsafter Pentecost) they had not so much as blinked in that direction (much less thought about it)?
Maybe the difficulty is in our inability to relate much to or comprehend the Jewish (or Israelite, if you prefer) mindset. They were the chosen people, AND... theyknew it ! What they also knew and were well aware of was the promise of a coming Messiah, the restoration of the kingdom to Israel (where they - the 12 apostles - would oversee 12 tribes), after which Israel would fulfill its role as a kingdom of priests, to go out as evangelists and priests unto the rest of the world. This was, after all, that which was said and spoken to Israel by Moses, Isaiah, and other prophets of old. So... what was their efforts directed towards? Simply to persuade the whole of Israel to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah. After which, he would stand, and return to earth... to finish bringing to pass all that was promised aforetime.
BUT... it was not to be.
Because, even with the plain and clear sign of Jonah put before them (i.e., resurrection from the dead), the rulers of Israel (speaking for the nation, as a whole) would NOT have this man (Jesus, the Christ) to rule over them. When was this established? Acts 8, folks. Acts 8. When and where do you see the story change and God changing direction? Acts 9. What changed, exactly? Well, it started with Saul... who, after a brief spat with some not so friendly Jews in Damascus, escapes to Arabia. Mt. Sinai, perhaps. Pretty much disappears off the scene for a few years, with God telling him to get away from and stay the heck out of Jerusalem. Why...? Maybe it just took a few years to "unwind" from all the years of intense religious indoctrination that he endured as a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Whatever the reason(s), he remains separated from the 12 and the church at Jerusalem. So, when does the church of the body of Christ and "Paul's gospel" (aka, the gospel of grace) start? With Paul. (Period.) He even says it (bluntly), in 1Tim.1:15. (Look up the real meaning of "chief" if you doubt it. The verse doesn't say he was the worst sinner. He was first in line to be saved by grace, and by grace alone - and he knew it. There was simply no other way, nor any other reason whatsoever for him to be saved, when the risen Lord and Savior knocked him off his high horse.) THAT is when the real administration of grace began (not Acts 28.)
Neither VPW (and TWI), nor Bullinger, nor a lot of others ever had or got this right, and it makes one heck of a difference in understanding what is written Acts, the Pauline epistles, as well as other scripture. For all the "rightly dividing" that was talked about, we actually couldn't even get that this verse makes the point that you have to know which piece of the pie goes where and to whom it is addressed (and NOT that all the pieces are the perfectly right size or shape and evenly divided.)
To clarify a point... it was late Friday, and perhaps I didn't take enough time to note that it was the rejection of Stephen's testimony (in Acts 7) that established Israel's (as a nation) failure to accept Christ as the Messiah. With Acts 9 being the record of Saul on the road to Damascus (which was foremost in my mind as I hastened to it), it was all too easy to think of it coming so quickly after Stephen's death (and skipping Acts 8.)
Ask whatever you want. Perhaps it'll stir up some new thought or perspective on something old...
I've read a lot about the subject. I find it amazing how God is so precise and how all that got over our heads because it was "for the Jews", "Revelation is not for us"... and blah blah blah... sigh
I've read a lot about the subject. I find it amazing how God is so precise and how all that got over our heads because it was "for the Jews", "Revelation is not for us"... and blah blah blah... sigh
I'm not following what you're trying to say. How all what got "got over our heads"? And I'm not sure what you mean by quoting "Revelation is not for us"?
Yeah, (aside from what Paul wrote) I think it's written to Israel. Doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to (or don't) learn anything from it...
Perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more.
I'm not following what you're trying to say. How all what got "got over our heads"? And I'm not sure what you mean by quoting "Revelation is not for us"?
Yeah, (aside from what Paul wrote) I think it's written to Israel. Doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to (or don't) learn anything from it...
Perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more.
Sorry English not my mother tongue... The teachings, some things were off but we didn't see them really, we just believed what was said such as : needs and wants parallels... or If you don't tithe God won't bless you... Wrong... so wrong...
This ABS teaching lie is just to make money!
I wasn't directly impacted by TWI since I wasn't living in the US but I went to the Summer Camp in 84, invited by VP as other believers from different countries. I had to put up with a guy who saw I was looking to go to a building to listen to a teaching so he said he was going to take me. He opened a door, dark inside, turned around to me suddenly and jumped on me to kiss me!!! Oh boy he hard a tough time : I was a rebellious and he heard me!!! Then I had to put up with another guy, a Canadian who was our coordinator at the camp and wanted me to dress a certain way for the pictures and I said no. He told me he will have me kicked out! I said : try! I was so mad! Such abuse. But I could see his balls from his shorts during a teaching so what a hypocrit! Then I had to put up with another idiot who was our country coordinator who tried to have sex with me. I heard later he was abusive with his wife. Then the previous country coordinator that asked me to show him my naked body while I was in the bathroom. I said no. He said oh you are so religious. I said nope. He was going to get married... They had spirit of sex. But none of them touched me.
not a problem - it's why I asked for some clarification.
24 minutes ago, mamouda said:
The teachings, some things were off but we didn't see them really, we just believed what was said such as : needs and wants parallels... or If you don't tithe God won't bless you...
well, not sure how you're relating this to anything in this (or much of any other doctrinal) thread, but...
just for the record, I was at HQ in 84, and at the time...
1) I took "needs and wants parallel" as meaning "parallel with scripture" (not "needs and wants" parallel to or in alignment with each other)
2) I didn't actually hear, take or acknowledge the "tithe" as being either appropriate or applicable. Being on staff, neither was "abundant sharing" taken to mean a giving of monies - aside from the rather rare (and odd feeling) request to contribute a few dollars towards some "special occasion" gift here or there. Giving time and services? Well, that's another issue altogether, but without a doubt falling under the umbrage of "God will bless you back for it..." Probably would have been far easier just to "give money," but probably less rewarding in other ways. Nowadays, I'm not so persuaded that we really know much of the why's and wherefores of God's goodness and blessings. Seems best just to accept them as being "free" whenever we're tuned in enough to even recognize them as such...
and finally,
3) I was (along with quite a few others) quite oblivious to the numerous sexual shenanigans (and crimes) that happened in and around HQ. Sorry to hear that you experienced it as much as you apparently did. It should've never happened.
not a problem - it's why I asked for some clarification.
well, not sure how you're relating this to anything in this (or much of any other doctrinal) thread, but...
just for the record, I was at HQ in 84, and at the time...
I know many were there but we might know each other...
32 minutes ago, TLC said:
1) I took "needs and wants parallel" as meaning "parallel with scripture" (not "needs and wants" parallel to or in alignment with each other)
Oooh thank you! Took it like in alignment with each other!
2) I didn't actually hear, take or acknowledge the "tithe" as being either appropriate or applicable. Being on staff, neither was "abundant sharing" taken to mean a giving of monies - aside from the rather rare (and odd feeling) request to contribute a few dollars towards some "special occasion" gift here or there. Giving time and services? Well, that's another issue altogether, but without a doubt falling under the umbrage of "God will bless you back for it..." Probably would have been far easier just to "give money," but probably less rewarding in other ways. Nowadays, I'm not so persuaded that we really know much of the why's and wherefores of God's goodness and blessings. Seems best just to accept them as being "free" whenever we're tuned in enough to even recognize them as such...
and finally,
Oh I was told many times it was : Money money and money. And if you don't God won't bless you. I heard from Americans too
3) I was (along with quite a few others) quite oblivious to the numerous sexual shenanigans (and crimes) that happened in and around HQ. Sorry to hear that you experienced it as much as you apparently did. It should've never happened.
I survived worse but I came to HQ to prove my friends it wasn't a cult... LOL
They had spirit of sex. But none of them touched me.
Well, another explanation might be that they never learned anywhere that they needed to honor personal boundaries of other people. I hope I'm inferring correctly that you are female. And given that you've been an adult for quite a few years, you probably realize that many men are just very horny. Combine the two (lack of understanding of personal boundaries along with horniness) and it too often, in many different situations throughout the world, leads to sexual misconduct and abuse.
In TWI, the self-justifying social culture generated by selective interpretation of scriptures led many women, especially young adult women, to be subjected to such abuse.
That you successfully asserted your boundaries is a very good thing.
The power imbalance in relationships is often highly problematic. Of course, it wasn't exclusive to TWI. And it's not exclusive to religious organizations.
Just last night I heard the story of a German former Catholic nun named Doris Wagner.
Well, another explanation might be that they never learned anywhere that they needed to honor personal boundaries of other people. I hope I'm inferring correctly that you are female.
Yes I am.
And given that you've been an adult for quite a few years, you probably realize that many men are just very horny.
I was 20 at the time but I had to put up with my abusive mom, my youth in an institution for sick children for 10 years and was a guinea pig in the hands of doctors... So I had my share plus at 15 something happened to me. I became pretty much rebellious at 12 to get away from whoever wanted to control me. Besides I do what I want with my butt and cold blank being asked to kiss or anything else would have never worked with me. I think, and I don't want to be hurting anyone but the US is very puritan so men are pretty much frustrated. They don't even know how to treat a lady with respect for instance on a first date they want to kiss or go directly to bed, would date in the same time other women to test which one would be the right one... Weird behaviour!
Combine the two (lack of understanding of personal boundaries along with horniness) and it too often, in many different situations throughout the world, leads to sexual misconduct and abuse.
I agree but it includes what I wrote above added to that they could learn how to control themselves.
In TWI, the self-justifying social culture generated by selective interpretation of scriptures led many women, especially young adult women, to be subjected to such abuse.
I had to put up with shut up and obey in my country too. Overtime it became heavy in my heart. Besides always the same teachings... Boring. So fortunately somethings happened that were not the best but our Twig blew up as well as my marriage. Christians became mean to us and our country coordinator and I left. As of now, been about 10 years, I haven't put one foot in any fellowship. I tried two but left frustrated. I found one I think will be good (ex wayers) so I'll see next Sunday how it goes.
That you successfully asserted your boundaries is a very good thing.
It's funny but I've never been an idolator such as being crazy about a band or being hysterical in front of the Rolling Stones for instance... I already had my radars on all the time. So Craig... VP and Geer were not my favorite guys to talk to. And I met VPW once, Craig twice and Geer a few times... Never liked him at all. Cold as ice.
The power imbalance in relationships is often highly problematic. Of course, it wasn't exclusive to TWI. And it's not exclusive to religious organizations.
Just last night I heard the story of a German former Catholic nun named Doris Wagner.
Oh those I hate them so much!! I was raised catholic like all of us in our country and I already had my radars on... They need to be exposed!
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thor
I found this article in the link below, well presented and compelling with much background information and good arguments from the author regarding the September 23rd planetary alignments. I stro
thor
I'm interested in your opinions on what's below. Recently I stumbled across all this while looking up something about the pyramids at Giza, stars, and Jewish holidays & holy days on the inter
mamouda
Sorry English not my mother tongue... The teachings, some things were off but we didn't see them really, we just believed what was said such as : needs and wants parallels... or If you don't tithe God
Infoabsorption
I recently listened to an interview with Mark Biltz who was the 1st to discover the blood moon phenomena that occurred during the Jewish feast days in 2014 & 2015. In that interview he mentioned that a total solar eclipse occurred over Europe in 1914 right at the beginning of World War 1. Guess what date in 1914 that occurred? August 21st! Check out this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_August_21,_1914 Just a coincidence?
On June 8th 1918 another total solar eclipse occurred but that time over the USA. The path it took is very similar to the path of the eclipse that will occur on Monday. https://eclipsewise.com/solar/SEgmap/1901-2000/SE1918Jun08Tgmap.html In 1918 during WW1 the USA had the most casualties during that time. Another coincidence?
I don't believe this has anything to do with Rev. 12 but it seems Someone is trying to get our attention. Is a major war about to break out?
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thor
Yes, at the least I think that someone is trying to get our attention, signs are everywhere. Whether this is The Return in September or October or beyond is up for debate. I see all these things as signs from the One who created the Heavens. Perhaps the major war is the one that comes after The Return:
Revelation 13:5-18
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly
Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that... the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit....
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Here the Bible meets Greek "mythology" there is a definite connection between the fallen angels, the nephilem, the Greek god Apollo or Apollyon, and the anti-christ.
The false prophet, deluding and deceiving the people of earth into following the antichrist.
Revelation 13:13-15
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Then, the Antichrist's and False Prophet's government form a club, unless you join and you become a member, you will be boycotted. You will not be able to buy or sell unless you bear the mark of the Beast on your hand or forehead proving membership. Funny how it sounds like the way some governments are mirroring this club mentality all of a sudden, makes you wonder what shocking thing's next. A company in Wisconsin this month has already started this process by chipping some 40 employees with their vital and bank card information under the skin with a microchip between the thumb and forefinger. The company that sells these chips is from Sweden and boasts some 3k European users already.
Revelation 13:16-18 (NIV)
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his fore-head, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the Beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the Beast, for it is a man’s number. His number is 666.
Pretty sobering. God help those people left behind.
Revelation 14:9-13
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
It will be a tough choice for those who have a family and children to support and take care of.
Revelation 6:4
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Mars, the red planet, was also a god, he was a god in the pre flood era with Apollo. He is also known as the god of War...there is a war coming.
Revelation 6:5,6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The color black and bread sold by weight in the Bible is a marker of famine. Commerce is depicted by the rider with the balances in hand. Interesting the oil and wine are spared, or protected, perhaps the great commerce of the world's wealthiest and elites will stay wealthy so as to aid the government in place. Worldwide famine will be present during the tribulation, many will die.
In mythology, Mercury is the god of War, the Roman name for him is Hermes, who also acted as a messenger between the gods and man, and in Latin the word is mercurius, where the words merchandise and merchant are derived.
All three reigned in the pre-flood era.
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T-Bone
Having said that awhile back…and thinking of the upcoming astronomical event of September 23rd, I’m not going to make any predictions here – just stating the obvious – things have been getting dicey for a while now...if there’s anything to biblical prophecies – everything going on politically, economically, socially, etc. seems to be a protracted setup that one way or another will change the world as we know it - consider the following links:
Equifax data breach
employees have embedded chips
microchips implanted in humans
microchip implant by Wikipedia
bringing middle east tensions to a boiling point
what would war look like with North Korea
is America headed toward a new civil war
social unrest and political tension in America
the middle east powder keg
climate change
the big thaw
technology's bad effect on the environment
brief history of technology's impact on environment
I believe Jesus Christ will return – and that he will change how things get done in ways that we can’t even imagine – no matter how many times we’ve studied prophecy… How well do you feel you’re prepared? I’m not asking along the lines of a come-to-Jesus meeting…I’m just thinking out loud – how prepared am I if things don’t play out exactly like I thought they would. Will Christ return pre, mid, or post tribulation period? Is the interpretation of the book of Revelation to be based on Preterism, Futurism, Historicism, or Idealism…or any combination therewith…and how will the millennial period unfold? Are you absolutely sure you know the answer?
I’m not meaning to be a downer – my post is cautionary…that’s all… just saying sometimes I don’t even place any faith in certain of my pet doctrines. In times like that I lean to something…or rather someone who far outranks me…someone who has been around for a long time…and is more real than my favorite bible studies…that someone is Jesus Christ:
“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4 I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, 5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you…7
33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” …John 16: 1-7, 33 NIV
== == == ==
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns…Matthew 24: 36-46 NIV
Love and peace
T-Bone
Edited by T-Boneneeded more time
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thor
I hear ya T-Bone, not to mention the Hurricanes of unusual size, Harvey, Irma, & any other pending Tropical depressions, the Mexico City earthquake, and the wholesale deception of the American public in this last election that is still leading people captive ushering in what is prophecied in Revelation.
Here is a quote from Jesus Christ Himself:
Revelation 3:1-6
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I think the words for today are to watch and be ready.
I'm briefly posting an excerpt of an article with a lot of heart, I'll post more later.
It is a summation of sorts of what I've previously posted. The last 2 paragraphs are stellar.
From: http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html
"The rarity of the signs and the linkage should bring no question to their importance. These signs will not occur again anytime soon and one is spelled out clearly in the final book of the Bible. As Jesus said, there would be signs in the heavens, and if these are not them, then what else could we possibly be looking for? In the end there are no alternatives.
conclusive heavenly imagery to make Revelation colorful. It is a sign in the physical heavens and it is in just a few months.
3 or “the things which are”. This is then a future sign physically in the heavens concerning the final time. Revelation 12 is a unique part of the Book of Revelation as it comes after the seven seals and seven trumpets with the kingdoms of the world becoming Christ’s. The end of chapter 11 describes the end of the seven-year 70 th Week. Chapter 12 begins another perspective of Revelation and the Sign of the Woman lays out the overall salvation plan of God from the beginning. The Woman represents Israel whose Seed is the Messiah. The Sign of the Woman on September 23, 2017 then fits with Micah 5 where Israel is given up until the Woman gives birth again.
3 NKJV
23 is then a great moment to pay attention. On September 20, the alignment of the Great Pyramid speaks to the coming of our wounded Savior as the Morning Star-King on the morning before the observed day for the Feast of Trumpets—the Last Trump to which Paul referred to as the time of the Church’s gathering by resurrection. It is the opinion here the observed calendar is correct since many events and calculations have occurred according to the observed calendar. But again, we are talking merely a two day difference between the 21 st and the 23rd of September. Trying to nail down the exact moment is in the end difficult to do. It would seem wise to not be so concerned over the fine details and realize that three days is still a pretty narrow focus for the transition. We can probably watch all of these days.
17 NKJV
The Revelation 12 Sign of the Woman has been there in the text for all to read for nearly two thousand years. It is the only great sign mentioned in the Bible. That should be a big hint and a hint we all failed to see until very recently. It has been a neon flashing sign so big that it was missed in plain sight. The problem was that many saw this sign as a picture before Jesus was born, but no such alignment occurs then. It is also not an allegory of non-
The Revelation 12 Sign occurs in the “after these things” portion of Revelation, which happens after the Church passages of Chapters 2-
““But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” Therefore He shall give them up, until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren shall return to the children of Israel.” Micah 5:2-
Notice how our Lord gives up the children of Israel until she who is in labor has given birth and then the remnant of Israel returns. This giving up period is the duration of the Church and the Church has not replaced Israel. So the question then is, what is this birth? Is it merely this Sign of Revelation 12 or is the birth that of the corporate Body of Christ when the Church is transformed at the Rapture? The time we are truly born again, as blood and flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? The child in Revelation 12:4 is taken (harpazo) to be delivered from the Dragon who brings the Antichrist. Is that not what the Rapture is about? Christ was not taken to heaven to be delivered. He gave His life for us and effectively crushed the Serpent’s head. It would seem this Sign of Revelation 12 speaks of Corporate Israel bringing forth the Corporate Body of Christ that is taken to heaven before the Nation of Israel endures the final hour.
This sign in the heavens then appropriately looks to mark this transition and transformation. September 20-
So it would appear the Sign of the Woman signals the soon onset of the 70th Week of Daniel. This Sign is not going to happen for at least another 1,000 years. In the end this comes down to faith and consideration of what all points to these dates. It would seem to behoove us all to take the possibilities, at least, seriously. These signs of 2017 again do not occur in a vacuum. They have support from the Lunar Tetrads and Conjunctions, as well as the progression of events in the world centered around Israel. It is the time.
We may be down to our final weeks as the Church to witness to the remainder of the world that is lost. However, the world does seem to know that all is not well and doomsday approaches. Indeed it is. The question comes down to what a person does with Jesus and the gift he offered through his death on the cross. Whatever point of history we are in, that is the question. That is the bottom line. Believing in Christ and accepting his gift of pure grace is what will deliver us. It is the only thing that can save us. We will soon see that the world cannot save itself. Scripture promises that it will soon be humanity's darkest hour. Those who believe now will be taken to be with the Lord in likely a few short months. The rest will then have to endure the coming dark hour and many will decide. Now is the time of salvation. Our Lord will soon reign over the Earth."
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16-
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thor
T-Bone I wanted to say that at one point in my end times studies I had to go to the scriptures to make sure we weren't going have to endure the tribulation, but then I read all the scriptures in the epistles that confirm the tribulation will not happen till there's a falling away first, there are an overwhelming number of scriptures in that vein. So many preach the opposite though partially confusing to whom it is addressed, Israel will endure the Tribulation but will be redeemed and accept the Messiah during that period, but we who have believed Christ now, will be in heaven.
I also wanted to take the time to address "no one knows" references in scripture. Watch and be sober, be ready, is quite clear in many scriptures too. Do the scriptures really say, 'no one knows'? Let's take a more indepth look at the scriptures including the greek.
From: http://watchfortheday.org/know.html
"When Jesus explains the time of the end in Matthew 24 to the disciples, we have all failed to understand the intent of the passage at the time it was given. Clearly Jesus details signs that must occur at the end of the age for when he will set up his kingdom. We must remember this comes just days after Jesus presented himself as the king in the Triumphal Entry on Palm Sunday. A number of Jews were hoping Jesus would establish his kingdom right then and there. We know that did not happen, but they were still confused and did not grasp what was coming in a couple of days to fulfill Passover.32:
Consider this famous passage of Peter who did not understand what the Christ must first do in Mark 8:31-
And He (Jesus) began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him.
Why did Peter not like this teaching? It was because Peter did not understand the two advents of Christ. Peter wanted the kingdom now, but that was not what was going to happen.
Consider this passage from Acts 1:6:
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Even before Jesus ascended to heaven it was hoped that Jesus would establish his kingdom. We must remember that the disciples were struggling to grasp the whirlwind of events of those weeks. Of course Jesus knew this.
So then, let us go back between Palm Sunday and the Crucifixion in the Passion Week when Jesus takes the disciples aside as recorded in the Olivet Discourse and presents them many signs that will occur. Jesus explains all of what must happen, but then he says:
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. – Matthew 24:36
This is the verse everyone seems “to know” by saying “no one can know” when anyone discusses the nearness of Jesus’ return, but that is entirely wrong. The Greek word used for “knows” is εiδω and it is in the perfect active indicative. It should be rendered as “has seen” as in completed action up to that point.
Jesus is communicating the time of the end to disciples who do not truly understand the outflow of events that are coming. Jesus is yet to be crucified, buried, raised, and ascended. Jesus explains that no one has seen the time of the end, because it is not occurring at that time. Jesus is not restoring the kingdom as they are hoping will be done. Jesus is trying to drive that point home. He is not intending the message for us in the future to not know and see what he clearly revealed. His message is to the disciples who do not understand. No disciple has seen what Jesus just explained because it is still in the future. No one has seen or is seeing it. That is Jesus’ intent of saying that sentence. He is saying those events are not happening now, but are still in the future.
But of that day and hour no one has seen, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. – Matthew 24:36
And so what does Jesus say to do next? He continues and tells us to watch. Here εiδω is used again and is “has seen”. Here is Jesus command to watch in Matthew 24:42:
Watch therefore, for you have not seen (or have not known) what hour your Lord is coming.
So the Church begins its life ten days after Jesus ascends to Heaven and still no one had seen of that day or hour. What then is the Church to do? Watch. We watch so that we might know. Is this consistent with other passages of Scripture? Absolutely. They are in harmony. There is no conflict whatsoever. Consider these:
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. –1 Thessalonians 5:3-
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. –Hebrews 10:24-
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. –Revelation 3:3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John. –Revelation 1:1
Jesus has given us Revelation and the Scriptures are clear that we watch to know. There is no excuse. It is not biblically consistent, yet it is a majority understanding that “we cannot know, so watching is really a waste of time”. Really? The Great Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12 forms in the heavens in 4 weeks! What could be more clear? The evidence is overwhelming yet the Church is largely sleeping and lost in the cares of life. Clueless. Unbelievable. However, have we not seen this before when Jesus came 2,000 years ago? People stuck in their traditions and doctrines of men? We are in crunch time and it is truly not the time be confused. God is not that author. "
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And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch! – Mark 13:37
Jesus' ministry to Israel, the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Heaven, all play a role in decerning passages when dealing with Gods covenant with the Jews, Old Testament prophecy regarding promises to Israel of a Heavenly abode and 2nd coming of the Savior, Israel's recognition of the Christ as Jesus, the apostles mission to the Jews after the Ascension, the second coming of Christ, and the grafting in of the Church after the rejection of the Jews. I believe plans got scrapped, doors closed, Paul said I go unto the Gentiles when Israel refused to accept the Messiah Jesus Christ. What was to be after Christ arose and what Israel hoped for was put in abeyance, to our benefit, we became plan B.
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Another member on this forum, Sunesis, wrote a very good post explaining this transition, here is a portion of their post:
"For a little background, I believe the Bible, as I've read it over the years, is essentially, a book of prophecy. It concerns a coming Redeemer (Christ), and a coming Kingdom on earth (the Kingdom - which for our purposes here, includes the New City Jerusalem which Abraham looked for - it will be part of this Kingdom). Ok, so:
1. The OT prophesies Messiah will come.
2. Gospels - Messiah arrives. His ministry is to the JEWS ONLY. This is important. He does miracles - which are signs to Israel. They show and prove that he is the prophesised Messiah. Also, here comes another important part:
3. Messiah/Jesus preaches what? He preaches to the Jews: The Kingdom is at hand, all is ready. Believe on me (note: in the OT, for the Kingdom to arrive, all Israel must turn to the Messiah and he will bring in the Kingdom). So - its here!
4. Jesus is rejected and killed by his people.
5. But, he has 12 Apostles who were commissioned to preach Jesus - to the Jew first.
6. Acts: Peter at pentecost says "repent - the Kingdom is at hand." The Apostles preaching was to Israel. Peter quotes Joel - a prophecy to Israel.
If you continue to read Acts, those who believed had the Holy spirit in them. They did signs and miracles.
Why? Because they were signs that the Kingdom was at hand. Signs again to Israel. They were a foretaste of what would be normal, daily life in the Kingdom walking in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The 12 Apostles were like, the last call at a bar, last chance - repent, Christ is standing on the right hand of God - the Kingdom is here. He will still return if you desire it!
So, Israel has had prophets, the Word, the Law, the King arrives, then finally - the Apostles.
After all this they say - NO.
What happens? What is God's plan for if Israel should reject their Messiah and Kingdom?
Acts 28 - Paul now begins his ministry to the Gentiles. The Kingdom is not coming. To emphasize this, the Romans come destroy the Temple, Jews are scattered.
A new administration begins. All of Pauls NT writings: Romans, Corinthians, Galations, I and II Thessalonians were written BEFORE Acts 28. The Kingdom and signs were still being done, in fact they were so common, Paul has to tell them in Corinthians - whoa dudes, here's how to handle them! At this point believing Gentiles are also "grafted" into Israel's hope.
What was Israel's Hope? The Messiah and the Kingdom. In Acts 26 Paul still says, I preach nothing but the Hope of Israel. During Acts, Gentiles were, by grace, allowed to partake of this Hope.
So, how did Paul go, from healing people, to leaving Melitius at Trophimas sick, to Timothy being sickly, to a total lack of miracles? What happened, why did they stop and he wasn't healing people anymore?
Different administration - beginning in Acts 28:26, where the prophecy for the third time is cited: hearing they will not hear, seeing they will not see, etc... I go to the Gentiles.
It was after the book of Acts, after Israel has rejected the final offer, in the prison Epistles (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, I and II Timothy, Philemon and Titus) that Paul has a revelation from God - the cherry on top.
It is: God has called a people who will people heaven. In Ephesians we are told we have Power. We do not need the "signs" for Israel anymore since the prophetic clock has stopped and Christ is now building a "new man" - a "new creation." Whose home will be in the heavenlies. The believer's hope in this day and age is: Heaven. Our hope is not the earthly Kingdom - that is Israel's.
Once the "days of the Gentiles" are fulfilled, in Revelation God will then deal again with Israel and Gentile - for the final time. This time Israel will all call upon the Lord."
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For further research on Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven here's a good reference page:
http://www.kjvbible.org/thekingdoms.html
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T-Bone
Thor,
thanks for all the work you've put into your posts...lots to look into and lots to think about...thanks again !
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thor
Hey T-Bone, my pleasure, thanks for reading it and commenting, if the day is not next week, at least it's got us thinking about the possibility and maybe drawing closer to Our Father and His Son...there's one more post though :)
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thor
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
I Thessalonians 5:4
I want to give some backstory to fill in the gaps of some of the history of things referred to in some key verses, and some of the upcoming events that have been discussed.
The Apostle Paul prophetically speaks of the day of The Return:
I Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
The backstory of the phrase of the "last trump"...a series of 100 trumpet/horn sounds, or blows, on Rosh Hashanah:
From http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/
"The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment.
The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping.
The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing."
"The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note.
– In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed."
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The meaning of the shofar-blowing of Trumpets:
From: http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/
"3. The Blowing of the Shofar:
The blowing of the trumpet is the only actual command in the Hebrew Scriptures as to how this feast is to be observed, but the Bible does not give any reason for it. And where the Bible fails to give a reason, the rabbis felt a need to provide one.
a. In the blowing of the Shofar the Talmud gives 10 rabbinic reasons.
b. There are also three main purposes for Blowing the Shofar.
c. Rabbi Saadiah Gaon (882-942 CE) gives 10 reasons for the blowing of the Shofar, but only one will be mentioned because it is practiced today in rabbinic Judaism.
– to introduce the ten days of penitence that comes between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement.
d. The Three Meanings of the Blowing of the Trumpets:
(1) First, it was a symbol of the final regathering of Israel when the Messiah comes.
(2) Second, it was a symbol of the resurrection from the dead.
(3) Third, on this day (Feast of Trumpets) three different books will be open in Heaven. One is called the Book of Righteousness. Those who were perfectly righteous would have their names inscribed in the Book of Life and they would live another year. The second book is called the Book of the Wicked or the Book of the Dead and those whose names are inscribed in this book would die during the year. Most people are neither totally righteous nor totally wicked, so there is a third book call the Book of the In Between. Those inscribed in the third book are given ten days to repent – the ten days between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement.
(4) The Trumpet Blasts:
The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment.
The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping.
The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing.
The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note.
– In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed."
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From: http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/
"1. Zicharon Truah: Means “memorial of triumph” or the “shout for joy.”
This phrase is found in Leviticus 23:24 and the literal meaning is “a remembrance of blowing.” The phrase shouting for you is found in Job 38:7 where all the sons of God shout for joy. Rabbinic Judaism teaches that God created the heavens and the earth on the Feast of Trumpets so it was on this occasion that the angels shouted for joy."
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It's Interesting that the Hebrew word for trumpets is actually "the blowing of Trumpets". The Hebrew words originally for Feast of Trumpets was Yom Teruah. God used trumpets when giving Moses the Law on Mt Sinai when communicating to the Children of Israel in the desert.
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall you have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. –Leviticus 23:24
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From: http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/rosh1.html
"The Hebrew word for "trumpets" is not actually found in Leviticus 23:24 the Hebrew "teruah" is translated blowing of trumpets. This is a memorial to commemorate a future start of the Messianic Kingdom with the return of Messiah Yeshua. Since Yom Teruah relates to the seventh new moon it shows the perfection of Yahweh's plan for salvation through Messiah Yeshua. This is also a connection between the torah and Messiah. The blowing of the shofar was the thunder that the children of Israel heard when Moses was given the law on Mt. Sinai.
Exodus 20:18-20
And all the people saw the thunder, and the lightning, and the noise of the trumpet (shofar), and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed themselves, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, You speak with us, and we will hear: but don't let Elohim speak with us, or we will die. And Moses said to the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, so that you don't sin.
The word "trumpet" in Exodus 20:18 is the Hebrew word "shofar" (Strong's #7782). This loud shofar blast really scared the people so much so that they asked Moses to speak with Yahweh for them. Solomon was inspired to write that the fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 9:10) Yeshua demonstrated this wisdom throughout his life by giving the glory to Yahweh. We must forsake evil and live like Yeshua! Sin should be the farthest thing from our mind. We are Yeshua's chosen if we live as he teaches."
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From: https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/evt/jewish-new-year/
(Regarding the day of Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah/modern Jewish New Year/aka Rosh Hashanah in the city of Jerusalem.)
"Like many other Jewish festivals, its customs center around the synagogue and home, where large festive meals are prepared for family and friends....On the Jewish new year many hours are spent in synagogues around the city, and the city’s shops close, creating a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere, an obvious contrast to regular days when Jerusalem bustles with activity.
Walk down to the Western Wall (Kotel) to see thousands of people congregating for special prayers. You may even get to hear the shofar (ram’s horn) blown, a central part of the prayer services on Rosh Hashanah....
Rosh Hashana 2017 begins the eve (sunset) of Wednesday, September 20 and ends Friday, September 22 after sunset. Check out some of the events around town during and around the holiday…"
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Explanation of dark moon or hidden moon, where no man knew the day or hour, new moon which starts the 2 day High Holy Day of Rosh Hashanah's period:
The Feast of Trumpets-Yom Teruah-Ross Hashana is the only Jewish holiday that starts on the new moon, the 1st day of the lunar month where it is a moon that is not visible, it is also called the dark moon, the hidden moon, the concealed moon, hidden from everyone. The new moon is when it is not seen, the day no one knows the day or hour.
From: http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/messages/rosh_hashanah.php
"Because everyone was to celebrate the Feast of Trumpets and it always fell on the 1st day of the lunar month, based on the (physical) sighting of the new moon, it was known as the Feast where no one ever “knew the day or the hour” it would come. The Jews in Babylon and elsewhere were to keep it as well but it would take a day to get them the news so it was always kept for 2 days and was known as “one long day ”. It was to be a day symbolically hid from Satan so even he would not be sure of its arrival!"
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Psalm 81:4
Sound the shofar to mark the new month, time of concealment of our Festival day.
The dark moon was and is the marker to start the holiday of The Feast of Trumpets. The moon is concealed or hidden in darkness. This year the new moon starts in Jerusalem at 8:29am on Sept 20th, although the feast of Trumpets is a 2 day event by tradition, mainly because of the difficulty in surety of sighting the new moon, so the official day is Sept 21st. The new moon is a 2 day dark moon as well. Moon phases for this month in Jerusalem are here: https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/israel/jerusalem
You can see the 2 day dark moon on this graphic: https://stardate.org/nightsky/moon
We have the technology now to pinpoint lunar phases, in Old Testament time, weather providing, they had to physically use their eyes to find out.
You can plug in the name of the city and state you live in in the above link to see what date and hour your time zone synchronizes with the new moon in Jerusalem time, for the start of Rosh Hashana is this month.
Acts 1:11
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
According to the Jewish calendar The Feast of Trumpets begins on the first day of the 7th month, Tishrei, the first day of the lunar cycle, the new moon, the dark hidden moon, which also corresponds to the anniversary of the Jewish date of the creation of Adam and Eve, coincidentally.
For more on this subject of the new moon a great article, "Defining the New Moon" is here: http://watchfortheday.org/definingthenewmoon.html
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Retrograde Jupiter today & Bethlehem Star/Sign of the Woman 2017/Rev 12:
From: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens
"On November 20, 2016, an astronomical event begins that will last nine and a half months, culminating in startling concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12. While I am not an astronomer, all my research indicates that this astronomical event, in all its particulars, is unique in the history of man.
On November 20, 2016, Jupiter (the King planet) enters into the body (womb) of the constellation Virgo (the virgin). Jupiter, due its retrograde motion, will spend the next 9 ½ months within the womb of Virgo. This length of time corresponds with gestation period of a normal late-term baby.
After 9 ½ months, Jupiter exits out of the womb of Virgo. Upon Jupiter’s exit (birth), on September 23, 2017, we see the constellation Virgo with the sun rise directly behind it (the woman clothed with the sun). At the feet of Virgo, we find the moon. And upon her head we find a crown of twelve stars, formed by the usual nine stars of the constellation Leo with the addition of the planets Mercury, Venus, and Mars. That is a truly remarkable and, as far as I can determine, unique series of event with a startling degree of concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12"....
"So what was the Star of Bethlehem? As mentioned, I think there is a compelling case that the Star of Bethlehem was a series of astronomical events with significant symbolism. More detail can be seen at BethlehemStar.net, but I will attempt a brief summary.
In 3/2 B.C., there occurred a rare triple conjunction of Jupiter (the king planet, through its retrograde motion) and Regulus (the king star). The Magi likely interpreted this rare triple conjunction as a giant neon sign in the heavens blinking KING-KING-KING. This all began at the Jewish New year and all within the constellation of Leo (the lion, a symbol of the tribe of Judah). So it heavily symbolized Jewish King from the tribe of Judah, a clear indication for those familiar with the Messiah. Further, rising right behind Leo was the constellation Virgo, with the sun and the moon at her feet. After this incredible triple conjunction, Jupiter began moving westward in the sky, eventually coming into conjunction with Venus, a planet long symbolically associated with motherhood. The conjunction of the king planet and the motherhood planet was so close, that no man alive had ever seen anything like it and together it formed the brightest object in the sky.
All this symbolism of a Jewish king from Judah and a Virgin was enough to get the well-versed Magi moving to Jerusalem, but you can understand why the average citizen of Jerusalem missed it.
Jupiter continued its western movement in the sky until it finally stopped. When it stopped (as seen from Jerusalem), it stopped directly south, directly over the small village of Bethlehem, on December 25 of 2 B.C.
This may be easily seen with modern star programs that can show you the night sky on any date in history from any perspective. It is the advent of such computer programs that now allows us to not only look at the past, but to look at the skies of the future.
Given the context of all I just described, it is when we turn our gaze to the heavens of the future that once again we are treated to heavenly signs of great symbolism."
The opening verses of Revelation 12.
And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
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The Jupiter and Venus Conjunctions
The planets representing the Messiah-Jupiter/Venus-His Glory-the bright and morning star
From: http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html
"While much talk of the final tetrad of 2014-2015 ensued, set at the same time were the remarkable conjunctions of Jupiter and Venus. At first the rarity of these conjunctions was not fully realized. The group of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions that just occurred were in a unique class with the four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions before Christ’s birth. In 9,400 years of Solex data Jupiter-Venus conjunction of June 17, 2 BC was the closest and longest observable conjunction over that entire period. From AD 1900-2100 the closest observable conjunction of Jupiter-Venus was on August 27, 2016. These two groups of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions in 3-1 BC and AD 2014-2016 both cover the same duration of time and both have two conjunctions each in Leo. With regards to 2014-2016, the nearest set of four conjunctions occurred in 1790-1792 and will occur in 2145-2147. At TheChristmasStar.org, Jim Dodge explains this and argues that out of the 9400 years of Solex data, these two groups are unique and the placement of the 2014-2016 conjunctions is no accident. As we examine them, that should become more obvious."
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Commentary:
Those are the explanative sections above, next are the surmising sections. Who can be sure they know the date? None of us, but so much points to next week. If it's God's time to raise the dead and gather His Church, then we must prepare ourselves mentally and spiritually to present ourselves to Him.
From:
http://watchfortheday.org/definingthenewmoon.html
"September 20–Wednesday: At dawn at Giza there is the alignment of Regulus-Venus at the Christ Angle above the horizon in the
east. This is the Sign of the Great Pyyramid. About two hours after this alignment, the moon will reach conjunction.
September 21–Thursday: The new moon and Feast of Trumpets according to the observed calendar.
This day of the concealed moon looks to be the day of our concealment and hiding. The day of the Harpazo/Rapture of the Church to the throne of God to be one complete ruling body with the Man-Child. This happens before the labor
of the Tribulation.
September 22–Friday: The Autumn Equinox. The potential first day without the Restrainer. All who were righteous through
believing in the work of Jesus Christ are gone and the unrighteous will now be unhindered for forming what they think will be their utopia.
September 23–Saturday: The Sabbath of Return. The Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12:1-2 fulfilled in heaven.
The woman is pictured in pain to deliver a child. This is a sign for Israel and Israel will now be the torch bearer with the Church body gone. With the disappearance of the righteous on the Feast of Trumpets and this sign, Israel will begin their return to Jesus the Messiah. From this day it is 2,576 days to the Day of Atonement 2024 on October 12th. Counting 2,520 inclusive days from November 19, 2017 will land on October 12, 2024–the Day of Atonement. 2,550 days (1290 days from the mid-point) will come to November 11, 2024 and 2,595 days (1335 days from the mid-point) will come
December 26, 2024 and Hanukkah. From September 23rd to what appears to be the beginning of the Tribulation would be 8 weeks. It was also 8 weeks from the end of the “69 weeks” of Daniel on Palm Sunday until the Conception of the Church (thanks to Scott Clarke) on Pentecost Sunday.
This is the layout according to this author of the coming week of anticipation. It is understood here that many who espouse the Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12 hold to a different view on how to place the events associated with this sign. The reality is that we all have put the events within a few days of each other. Whatever happens, we will all be paying attention to each of the days and remaining alert. While this author at this time does not see how we can make it past this coming week in September, we must be prepared for whatever may come. Our faith should hold and remain firm in the clear teaching of the Bible and act accordingly.
Maranatha!"
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From: http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens
"The Catholic Church explicitly condemns astrology, as it does all forms of divination (CCC 2116). But signs like the Star of Bethlehem are not divination of fates ordered by the stars, but regular astronomy and symbology with the idea that the God of the universe sometimes uses His creation to communicate with man. The bible is replete with instances that make this case. Psalm 19 states:
1 …The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world…
— PSALM 19:1-4
Paul directly quotes this Psalm in Romans when making the case that the Jews had knowledge that the Messiah had come.
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they [the Jews] not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
— ROMANS 10:17-18
Paul is clearly making the case that the Jews had knowledge of the Messiah because the heavens told them so. Obviously Paul is not endorsing astrology, but indicating that God can and does sometimes use the heavens to announce His plans. There is much more that can be said on the differences between astrology and understanding heavenly signs, but suffice it for now to say that looking to the heavens for confirmation and announcement of God’s plans is legitimate within the proper context and application."
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This is speculation on my part, but I wonder if the imagery of a pregnant woman in travail of birth suddenly, with destruction and no escape, in the verse following, has anything to do with the Sign of the appearing 2 days after the Feast of Trumpets, (given the Jewish 2 day feast of trumps tradition), ushering in the travail the trials of the tribulation period of 7 years of Destruction by the Destroyer, if the Feast is to be the date of the gathering? Coincidental?
Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
Perhaps this is the main reason of the linear massing of planets around Virgo-The Virgin-the bride-Israel-as a sign of what's coming to those who are left behind? Does this explain why the occurrence in Revelation 12, an end times book given to John by Christ directly to address and expose end times occurrences specifically, speaks of this constellation of the Woman clothed with the sun with the moon at her feet 12 stars at her head as a sign to Israel, et al, after we're gone?
I Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
We see that all these things in the night & pre-dawn skies have been occurring for 9 1/2 months since November 20th, 2016, replete with Star of Bethlehem style retrograde motion of Jupiter in Virgo, all culminating on September23rd this year. Do you still think our God only uses signs in the skies for births? The one in Rev 12 is there for the first and only time in history forming today in the language of Heavenly math and science. Look up at night toward the east, and look at the stars aligning for Giza now one hour before sunrise, I saw them this morning and last nite. Do you still deny God is purposefully doing this?
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So we see last trump has a special meaning of Jewish tradition and history thru the ages, yet it appears the "Last Trump", the hidden, concealed, no one knows the day or the hour explained makes sense and is not so elusive. Paul indicates it will be incorporated into an event especially for the Church of the One Body-the Gathering of the wild olive branch. An event where the city of Jerusalem shuts down and every Jewish person will be in worship and witness the blowing of horns of shofar.
This shows that God set the standard for man according to His seasons and signs. His people, Israel, are still vitally involved with God's plan. We must not forget that we were the ones grafted in and allowed to share with Israel only because they rejected the Christ, but God in His great mercy will regain what was lost, their Heavenly City will come to pass, and so we are entwined with them eternally as they are the tree.
The scriptures have prophecied Israel will repent during the tribulation and God will restore Israel. Perhaps the plan is to use the Gathering on this Feast day as a witness to those left behind who are the good olive tree, the Children of Israel, the purpose of the planet and the ages, to whom Christ was sent to. Still think Jewish customs and dates don't apply to us? The history of man on earth has revolved around Israel since the Garden and will continue to do so until His Holy city, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth, a home for His people.
I think the word of the lord was opened, outpoured and given to this generation so we could herald it to all the world before this age ends and also to leave a body of work for those left behind who decide to believe and not succumb to the mark of the beast.
It think that maybe the purpose of the astral Sign of the Woman convergence in the skies on Sept 23rd may be a sign to those left behind who will believe, as in the verses about the 5 virgins who thought about filling their lamps with oil but didn't get around to it, and discovered their error too late.
For us, the day that everything seems to point to appears to be September 21st, the Feast of Trumpets, the High Holy Day Holiday. One reason why it appears this way to me is the verses by the Apostle Paul who prophetically speaks of the day of The Return:
I Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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From:http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html
"Three days prior to the Sign of the Woman, the heavens align as mapped by the Giza Pyramid Complex. Just before the sun dawns, the star in Orion's Belt that the Great Pyramid represents is exactly at meridian. Also at this moment of time, Regulus, the King Star of Leo is at the Christ Angle above the eastern horizon. What is the Christ Angle? It is the angle of the Great Pyramid’s ascending and descending passageways. That angle applied north of east from the Great Pyramid will bisect Bethlehem. So at dawn September 20, 2017, Regulus is at the Christ Angle, but so is the Morning Star/Venus because it is in conjunction with Regulus. Coincidentally, this occurs the morning before the Feast of Trumpets. This alignment has not been found to repeat in any year through the year 2200, which puts us well beyond a generation from seeing the return of Israel.
These signs of September 2017 are not alone. Planetary conjunctions similar to the time before Christ was born also occurred within the past few years and the calculations are stunning. This along with the tetrad of lunar eclipses occurring on the Festivals of the Lord in 2014-2015 produces a time like no other and we are in the middle of it with less than nine months before September 20-23, 2017. The alarms should be sounding in the many churches of the world, but are they hearing them? Are we telling them?"
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John 3:17-21
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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This website has great insightful articles and archives:
http://watchfortheday.org/index.html
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TLC
While I somewhat agree with the kingdoms link, I don't think it likely that the 12 apostles ever thought that they were commissioned (or that it was their task, however you want to say it) to "preach Jesus" to the Gentiles. Fact is, they were specifically commanded not to by Jesus himself. Well... perhaps you suppose Acts 1:8 nullified or changed that. But, take a real honest to goodness look at it, and think... did it, really? Who said or told you that this means (or meant) anything about being a witness to the Gentile (aka, dogs) of the world? Were not some of their own brethren already scattered unto the uttermost part of the earth? And, if they thought it meant (what most Christians nowadays seem to think it means) that they were to evangelize to all throughout the earth... then how does that fit or get reconciled to the plain fact that the 12 refused to leave Jerusalem in spite of the intense persecution there, that Peter had to be so strongly coerced to even darken the doorway to the house of Cornelius, or that by the time of Acts 11:19 (which some think a good 8 or 9 years after Pentecost) they had not so much as blinked in that direction (much less thought about it)?
Maybe the difficulty is in our inability to relate much to or comprehend the Jewish (or Israelite, if you prefer) mindset. They were the chosen people, AND... they knew it ! What they also knew and were well aware of was the promise of a coming Messiah, the restoration of the kingdom to Israel (where they - the 12 apostles - would oversee 12 tribes), after which Israel would fulfill its role as a kingdom of priests, to go out as evangelists and priests unto the rest of the world. This was, after all, that which was said and spoken to Israel by Moses, Isaiah, and other prophets of old. So... what was their efforts directed towards? Simply to persuade the whole of Israel to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah. After which, he would stand, and return to earth... to finish bringing to pass all that was promised aforetime.
BUT... it was not to be.
Because, even with the plain and clear sign of Jonah put before them (i.e., resurrection from the dead), the rulers of Israel (speaking for the nation, as a whole) would NOT have this man (Jesus, the Christ) to rule over them. When was this established? Acts 8, folks. Acts 8. When and where do you see the story change and God changing direction? Acts 9. What changed, exactly? Well, it started with Saul... who, after a brief spat with some not so friendly Jews in Damascus, escapes to Arabia. Mt. Sinai, perhaps. Pretty much disappears off the scene for a few years, with God telling him to get away from and stay the heck out of Jerusalem. Why...? Maybe it just took a few years to "unwind" from all the years of intense religious indoctrination that he endured as a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Whatever the reason(s), he remains separated from the 12 and the church at Jerusalem. So, when does the church of the body of Christ and "Paul's gospel" (aka, the gospel of grace) start? With Paul. (Period.) He even says it (bluntly), in 1Tim.1:15. (Look up the real meaning of "chief" if you doubt it. The verse doesn't say he was the worst sinner. He was first in line to be saved by grace, and by grace alone - and he knew it. There was simply no other way, nor any other reason whatsoever for him to be saved, when the risen Lord and Savior knocked him off his high horse.) THAT is when the real administration of grace began (not Acts 28.)
Neither VPW (and TWI), nor Bullinger, nor a lot of others ever had or got this right, and it makes one heck of a difference in understanding what is written Acts, the Pauline epistles, as well as other scripture. For all the "rightly dividing" that was talked about, we actually couldn't even get that this verse makes the point that you have to know which piece of the pie goes where and to whom it is addressed (and NOT that all the pieces are the perfectly right size or shape and evenly divided.)
Edited by TLCLink to comment
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TLC
To clarify a point... it was late Friday, and perhaps I didn't take enough time to note that it was the rejection of Stephen's testimony (in Acts 7) that established Israel's (as a nation) failure to accept Christ as the Messiah. With Acts 9 being the record of Saul on the road to Damascus (which was foremost in my mind as I hastened to it), it was all too easy to think of it coming so quickly after Stephen's death (and skipping Acts 8.)
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mamouda
I really enjoyed reading from you Thor and TLC. I wish there were more as of today.
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TLC
Ask whatever you want. Perhaps it'll stir up some new thought or perspective on something old...
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mamouda
I've read a lot about the subject. I find it amazing how God is so precise and how all that got over our heads because it was "for the Jews", "Revelation is not for us"... and blah blah blah... sigh
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TLC
I'm not following what you're trying to say. How all what got "got over our heads"? And I'm not sure what you mean by quoting "Revelation is not for us"?
Yeah, (aside from what Paul wrote) I think it's written to Israel. Doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to (or don't) learn anything from it...
Perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more.
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mamouda
Sorry English not my mother tongue... The teachings, some things were off but we didn't see them really, we just believed what was said such as : needs and wants parallels... or If you don't tithe God won't bless you... Wrong... so wrong...
This ABS teaching lie is just to make money!
I wasn't directly impacted by TWI since I wasn't living in the US but I went to the Summer Camp in 84, invited by VP as other believers from different countries. I had to put up with a guy who saw I was looking to go to a building to listen to a teaching so he said he was going to take me. He opened a door, dark inside, turned around to me suddenly and jumped on me to kiss me!!! Oh boy he hard a tough time : I was a rebellious and he heard me!!! Then I had to put up with another guy, a Canadian who was our coordinator at the camp and wanted me to dress a certain way for the pictures and I said no. He told me he will have me kicked out! I said : try! I was so mad! Such abuse. But I could see his balls from his shorts during a teaching so what a hypocrit! Then I had to put up with another idiot who was our country coordinator who tried to have sex with me. I heard later he was abusive with his wife. Then the previous country coordinator that asked me to show him my naked body while I was in the bathroom. I said no. He said oh you are so religious. I said nope. He was going to get married... They had spirit of sex. But none of them touched me.
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TLC
not a problem - it's why I asked for some clarification.
well, not sure how you're relating this to anything in this (or much of any other doctrinal) thread, but...
just for the record, I was at HQ in 84, and at the time...
1) I took "needs and wants parallel" as meaning "parallel with scripture" (not "needs and wants" parallel to or in alignment with each other)
2) I didn't actually hear, take or acknowledge the "tithe" as being either appropriate or applicable. Being on staff, neither was "abundant sharing" taken to mean a giving of monies - aside from the rather rare (and odd feeling) request to contribute a few dollars towards some "special occasion" gift here or there. Giving time and services? Well, that's another issue altogether, but without a doubt falling under the umbrage of "God will bless you back for it..." Probably would have been far easier just to "give money," but probably less rewarding in other ways. Nowadays, I'm not so persuaded that we really know much of the why's and wherefores of God's goodness and blessings. Seems best just to accept them as being "free" whenever we're tuned in enough to even recognize them as such...
and finally,
3) I was (along with quite a few others) quite oblivious to the numerous sexual shenanigans (and crimes) that happened in and around HQ. Sorry to hear that you experienced it as much as you apparently did. It should've never happened.
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mamouda
I know many were there but we might know each other...
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Rocky
Well, another explanation might be that they never learned anywhere that they needed to honor personal boundaries of other people. I hope I'm inferring correctly that you are female. And given that you've been an adult for quite a few years, you probably realize that many men are just very horny. Combine the two (lack of understanding of personal boundaries along with horniness) and it too often, in many different situations throughout the world, leads to sexual misconduct and abuse.
In TWI, the self-justifying social culture generated by selective interpretation of scriptures led many women, especially young adult women, to be subjected to such abuse.
That you successfully asserted your boundaries is a very good thing.
The power imbalance in relationships is often highly problematic. Of course, it wasn't exclusive to TWI. And it's not exclusive to religious organizations.
Just last night I heard the story of a German former Catholic nun named Doris Wagner.
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mamouda
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