watching the Patrick H video by the link Thor posted did nothing for me…besides the video link that Bolshevik posted there’s lots of info online that talk about ancient builders’ methods for such projects – one article even made some comment along the lines of saying some “documentary” type shows often come from someone who knows more about how to get a sensational program on NOVA rather than having any expertise in building technology.
. . . .
Well the Koch brothers do have their own interests
Not meaning to imply the video I posted is absolutely how ancient pyramid building was done. It does open up possibilities, IMO.
With so many possibilities that can be posited, there's numerous explanations and ways of connecting everything, that fit like a hand in a glove.
For what purpose is one chosen over all others? What does Heron's view ultimately accomplish? (is it just for fun?)
T-Bone, I concur, the pyramid conclusion is hard to swallow as well as some other points he writes about. There's a lot of end times passages in scripture that have no obvious answers and some that we can surmise we know the answer, but who knows, it's like seeing thru a glass darkly. Maybe we'll know after the Lord returns and that might have to be sufficient.
T-Bone, I concur, the pyramid conclusion is hard to swallow as well as some other points he writes about. There's a lot of end times passages in scripture that have no obvious answers and some that we can surmise we know the answer, but who knows, it's like seeing thru a glass darkly. Maybe we'll know after the Lord returns and that might have to be sufficient.
I agree Thor....all this stuff is interesting though...like I said I have one of his books...like a lot of things - I can get into stuff as long as I can pick and choose what makes sense to me and I'm not expected to buy the whole package.
I'm not one to flat out reject an entire work just because I'm not satisfied with one or two points.
Another thing I don’t agree with is Heron’s suggestion that Isaiah 19 is speaking of the pyramids of Egypt. Besides the passage probably being prophetic - temple design in the Old Testament does not incorporate pyramid shapes.
If I understand correctly, Isaiah was written approximately 2,000 years after the pyramids were built.
If I understand correctly, Isaiah was written approximately 2,000 years after the pyramids were built.
I haven’t thought about the timeline on that, Waysider - but that makes sense to me…another reason to consider it prophetic…and looking at a few commentaries on Isaiah 19, I get the same gist…
19 In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord near its border.20 It will become a sign and a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the Lord because of oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Champion, and He will deliver them.Isaiah 19:19, 20 NASB
Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on The Old Testament, Volume 7, Isaiah, page 365 says the fulfilment of this prophecy – would be something built by the Jews for the Jews…(that also makes me think of what went into building the original temple in I Kings 5 & following by King Solomon…according to God’s specs with its cosmological and royal symbolism to teach his people the absolute sovereignty of the Lord over his creation and his special relationship as Lord over Israel – but I digress – sorry ).
The Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary Volume 1: Old Testament, on page 1077 also says the final fulfillment of this passage has not yet come. Regarding the pillar situated on the border of Egypt, this commentary suggests that symbolizes the claiming of the land for the true and living God…I should add a note from The Zondervan NIV Study Bible (page 1061) that ties in to this – it says the reference appears to be to a conversion to the Lord of a significant number of Egyptians! And along a similar vein The New Bible Commentary: Revised on page 602 says there will be (referring to sometime in the future) holy ground where all was once profane.
== == == == ==
ok, now a different train of thought on a couple of posts by Thor ...
On 7/13/2017 at 3:56 PM, thor said:
...
The Feast of Trumpets starts on sunset of 20th of September 2017 and is sandwiched between the solar eclipse but before the alignment of planets. Explanation of Feast of Trumpets aka Rosh Hashana:
An interesting fact is that on the 9th of Av, which is the annual Jewish Holiday named Tish'a B'Av, both of the recorded Jerusalem Temples on the Temple Mount have been destroyed on that exact date-hundreds of years apart. A third Temple, which will be built upon the Temple Mount during The Tribulation period, is also prophesied in scripture to be destroyed near the end of The Tribulation period. Scriptures indicate there are 2 one thousand two hundred and three score periods (42 months), marking the double 3 1/2 year periods or 2,520 days, marking as some believe, the 7 year Tribulation period. For example, seven years from now Tish'a B'Av in 2024 occurs on August 13, but starts at sunset the day prior (as most/all Jewish holidays do too) on August 12th 2024.
7 hours ago, thor said:
T-Bone, I concur, the pyramid conclusion is hard to swallow as well as some other points he writes about. There's a lot of end times passages in scripture that have no obvious answers and some that we can surmise we know the answer, but who knows, it's like seeing thru a glass darkly.Maybe we'll know after the Lord returns and that might have to be sufficient.
Hey Thor, I haven’t said anything about your first post – but now putting all this pyramid stuff aside for a moment – your mention of the total eclipses in 2017 and 2024 really caught my attention…I know zilch about astronomy or the Bible and astronomical references therein but I try to keep an open mind – with critical thinking engaged, of course…and my mind mulls over what you said....and my faith says what if…yes…what if something really big does happen around the time of the September 2017 eclipse. Yowzer!...we shall see...
If I understand correctly, Isaiah was written approximately 2,000 years after the pyramids were built.
Waysider, now I understand what you meant by this, I should have asked for clarification :)
10 hours ago, T-Bone said:
I should add a note from The Zondervan NIV Study Bible (page 1061) that ties in to this – it says the reference appears to be to a conversion to the Lord of a significant number of Egyptians! And along a similar vein The New Bible Commentary: Revised on page 602 says there will be (referring to sometime in the future) holy ground where all was once profane.
Isaiah 19:23
In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
T-Bone, yes, the prophetic verse about the Jews, the Egyptians, and the Assyrians worshiping the true God together, definitely future prophecy. Makes sense, holy ground which was once profane. Hmmm. Maybe That's what's meant by the altar, pillar and sign in Egypt too. You know there may have been a rough stone altar/temple built by Abraham originally in Jerusalem. Maybe it will be something like that, or maybe bigger to serve as a sign.
In my understanding of the scriptures, Luke 21 (and other books), describe the reason the Jews had to abandon Jerusalem and get driven into Egypt along with others. It happens 3 1/2 years after the Tribulation, when the antichrist (Nephilim?) takes over the rebuilt 3rd Temple in Jerusalem, stops the Jews from performing offerings or sacrifices, declares he is god, war breaks out by the King of the North with assorted Arab countries and makes a drive into Jerusalem attacking. Jerusalem is partly destroyed, 1/3 of Jews killed, and the remainder Jews scatter to the mountains or wilderness, and told not to come back to Jerusalem by God. Those Jews who don't leave will be asked to worship the antichrist or get thrown into prison, or die for following the true God.
At some point the Euphrates dries up enabling large transport and crossings, and the King of the East with 20 million soldiers drives from the eastern flank toward Jerusalem. Interesting side note, china is already making agreements with other countries to start building superhighways beyond their borders linking china with the Middle East and Europe. Interesting stuff.
10 hours ago, T-Bone said:
your mention of the total eclipses in 2017 and 2024 really caught my attention…I know zilch about astronomy or the Bible and astronomical references therein but I try to keep an open mind – with critical thinking engaged, of course…and my mind mulls over what you said....and my faith says what if…yes…what if something really big does happen around the time of the September 2017 eclipse. Yowzer!...we shall see...
We shall! We might not know the exact hour or day, but perhaps the months. I think it's ok to contemplate it and even search out knowledge and clues from scripture about it, and it's fun too. It actually makes me draw closer to God, and realize that time in earth is short, so do what we can to draw close to Him and to our families, loved ones and reach out to those who haven't heard.
T-Bone, how useful/helpful are the 2 Reference books you listed, the Zondervan commentary and Keli & Delitzsch Commentary? I don't own these, should I add them to my library, and as a bonus they're not too expensive on Amazon Kindle or used?
Then I don't see what or why you think Israel is either being favored or being prepared for anything (however you care to think of it.)
Well, there's probably several reasons, but what follows here is probably the best I can think of. For starters, keep in mind that Daniel (and the other prophets of old) didn't have a complete picture or understanding of what was to come. Dan. 12:8; 1Pet.1:11,12. From a distance of many hundreds of miles (years, in the case of these prophets) away, it would be impossible to see a valley between the mountain peaks (one behind the other.) Furthermore, were it (i.e., a valley, or a large gap between the distant mountains) clearly seen and prophesied beforehand, then Israel's rejection of their Messiah would be set in stone... which, I don't think necessarily was. (However, I also believe that God knew they would.) In other words, the door was left open for Israel to accept Jesus Christ (as the Messiah) at his first coming. But they refused. Not only before the crucifixion, but also after his resurrection and ascension (see Acts 7, especially verse 56, when Christ stood up, as if ready to return.) Even after his resurrection, had Israel as a nation not rejected him (as they so plainly did, as evidenced in the killing of Stephen), I believe it would have set the stage for Christ's eminent return to earth (I.e., within seven years), to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. Therefore, the offer that God had made and promised to Israel was indeed valid. And, in short... it was Israel's failure to believe (even after he was raised from the dead) that lead to Saul's conversion, and his being sent forth as the (not "an") apostle to the Gentiles that blew open the door to the gospel of the grace of God, and the great valley of time between the second and third temples that you've asked about.
What are your views on the return of Christ?
I see the Book of Daniel as fulfilled. The prophecies given to Daniel point to the end of the Law age. That is why in Matt. 24 Christ made a reference to The Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place(Dan.9) in reply to the disciples questions about the temple being destroyed and the end of the world(Gr. aiōnos) meaning "age" not the Greek word kosmos. So at 70 AD the end of age of the Law was finalized with the destruction of the sanctuary(temple). 30AD - 70AD was a transition period. God gave Israel an approx. 40 year window to change it's ways. The disciples connected the destruction of the temple to Christ's coming(parousia) and the end of the age. They heard Jesus speak of the destruction of the temple and his coming before but during that conversation recorded in Matt. 24 the disciples wanted more detail.
Now getting to your question on my views of the return of Christ. Us Preterists disagree on this just as much as futurists disagree. I'm a rarity when it comes to Partial Preterism. Most Partial Preterists are post-millennial meaning Christ returns in final judgement at the end of the millennium and during that return the resurrections and judgements occur. I believe there are 2 comings or returns which includes a resurrection with each coming. 1 at the beginning of the millennium and 1 at the end. The 1st one occurred during the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD. In Matthew 24:30 you get a glimpse of that. In Daniel 12 verses 1&2 a resurrection occurs at a time of great distress of Daniel's people(66-70AD). In Daniel 7:9-10 thrones are set in place and thousands and thousands stand before the Lord and the court was seated etc. Judgement was pronounced in favor of the holy people and they possessed the kingdom at the timethe11th horn(Titus) of the 4th beast(Rome) oppresses the holy people(Israel) for a time, times, and half a time(31/2 years). The beginning of the Roman attack on Israel to the destruction of Jerusalem from 66-70AD was 3 1/2 years.
Looking at Rev. 20 Satan is seized and bound for a thousand years. John then describes thrones and describes the souls of the martyrs of the Beast(pre-70AD Rome). They came to life and reign with Christ for 1000 years. There is a lot written in the history books about the martyrs of Rome during this time period. Now look at Rev 20 verse 5: 5 "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection." The 1st resurrection occurred during the time of great distress of Israel where the temple is destroyed(70AD). I don't see any of this as future. In Revelation 1:1 within the prologue John states: " 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."
In our future(Rev. 20:7-15)
Satan is released for a short while
Gog & Magog
Forces of evil surrounding the camp of God's people
Fire coming down out of heaven(Christ's return in final judgement)
Satan thrown into the lake of fire(where the Beast and False prophet already are...these fallen angles were judged at 70AD)
Great White Throne Judgement (2nd resurrection)
New Heavens & Earth(Rev. 21)
"Then I don't see what or why you think Israel is either being favored or being prepared for anything (however you care to think of it.)"
I believe modern day Israel will ultimately believe on Christ and be saved. Also Gog & Magog.
huh? Universalist ? I didn't mean that every singe Jew now alive will believe. I was speaking(or writing) in general terms. Apparently there are some orthodox Jews in Israel coming around and accepting Christ. I've heard a few stories along those lines.
T-Bone, how useful/helpful are the 2 Reference books you listed, the Zondervan commentary and Keli & Delitzsch Commentary? I don't own these, should I add them to my library, and as a bonus they're not too expensive on Amazon Kindle or used?
well, Thor both are quite useful; note my Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary is an abridged 2 volume set...single volume commentaries are great for getting right to the main point or just getting an overview or a feel for a particular book or chapter of the Bible.
Keil & Delitzsch commentary is very detailed and will often give a little more background than an abridged commentary; for instance, on the same page (365) that I referred to in my post about Isaiah 19: 19 & 20, K&D said those verses are what Onias IV appealed to, when he sought permission of Ptolemaeus Philometor to build a temple of Jehovah in Egypt; he built such a temple to the northeast of Memphis (Elvis has left the building…no, not that Memphis); the temple was unlike the temple of Jerusalem- being built in the form of a castle, and stood for more than 200 years – from 160 BC to AD 71…well, maybe that's too much extraneous or unnecessary info for some folks but I enjoy reading about things like that; but it is jammed packed with pertinent details on the language, root words, texts, historical context, textual context, as well as cross references too.
I have more hardback editions than eBooks - personal preference I guess - if I'm working with multiple commentaries for me it's easier with real books - like my previous post...I've got links to the ones you asked about - and I added another that I enjoy on my Kindle app -- the Moody Bible Commentary - btw I find it easier to read commentaries and anything technical on an iPad with a Kindle app than on my Kindle... i do read a lot of fiction and non-fiction like history stuff on my Kindle - but it there's a lot of pictures or charts, graphs, etc. I use my iPad.
huh? Universalist ? I didn't mean that every singe Jew now alive will believe. I was speaking(or writing) in general terms.
Then the "generality" surrounding your reference to Gog and Magog also being saved makes no sense. In other words, I haven't yet been able to figure out how or who (and why) you think (anyone) is going to be saved, much less see what you think being "saved" actually means.
Wow, T-Bone, great response! Thanks for the suggestions! You know, I've never owned a commentary and have shied away from them in the past, but lately I'm appreciating the input of scholars who've really worked and studied the scriptures. I'm realizing those who have gone before me can really flesh out those hard to understand passages.
I'm with you on the iPad vs kindle, I tend to favor using the kindle app on both iPad and iPhone although I often also have a hard copy too in addition to the digital, and I get audiobook additions for driving across town or longer trips. I really enjoy using the word search option of kindle books for key word searches, very useful especially if I forget where in the book to look for what I want.
Thanks again, I'm going to check them out on Amazon.
Then the "generality" surrounding your reference to Gog and Magog also being saved makes no sense. In other words, I haven't yet been able to figure out how or who (and why) you think (anyone) is going to be saved, much less see what you think being "saved" actually means.
Sometimes when I'm in a hurry I don't write in such a way that would make my replies clearer to the reader.
Your question to me was this: " Then I don't see what or why you think Israel is either being favored or being prepared for anything (however you care to think of it.)"
I believe Gog & Magog to be a future event which is one of the things Israel may be prepared for. It had nothing to do with my 1st sentence about Israel being "saved". I guess I'm old school where being saved to me simply refers to the new birth, born again, etc.
On 7/25/2017 at 3:01 PM, Infoabsorption said:
1 at the beginning of the millennium and 1 at the end. The 1st one occurred during the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD.
If you suppose that we are currently living in "the millennium," and if:
On 7/25/2017 at 3:01 PM, Infoabsorption said:
In our future(Rev. 20:7-15)
Satan is released for a short while
Gog & Magog
Forces of evil surrounding the camp of God's people
Fire coming down out of heaven(Christ's return in final judgement)
Satan thrown into the lake of fire(where the Beast and False prophet already are...these fallen angles were judged at 70AD)
Great White Throne Judgement (2nd resurrection)
New Heavens & Earth(Rev. 21)
...then exactly when do you think the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and a little child shall lead them, or when will the wolf and the lamb feed together, and the lion eat straw like the bullock? Or when shall the days of His people be as the days of a tree?
4 hours ago, Infoabsorption said:
TLC, are you a lawyer by trade?
not hardly... but given you're the second in a week to suggest I could be, why do you ask?
Wow, T-Bone, great response! Thanks for the suggestions! You know, I've never owned a commentary and have shied away from them in the past, but lately I'm appreciating the input of scholars who've really worked and studied the scriptures. I'm realizing those who have gone before me can really flesh out those hard to understand passages.
I'm with you on the iPad vs kindle, I tend to favor using the kindle app on both iPad and iPhone although I often also have a hard copy too in addition to the digital, and I get audiobook additions for driving across town or longer trips. I really enjoy using the word search option of kindle books for key word searches, very useful especially if I forget where in the book to look for what I want.
Thanks again, I'm going to check them out on Amazon.
you're welcome Thor !!!!
hey, judging by your thought-provoking posts I believe you already know this - but for the sake of the wider audience (although I'm preaching to the choir at Grease Spot - uhmmmm - so maybe folks still in TWI or offshoots- anyway...) i just wanted to add something to what i said previously: any commentaries, systematic theologies, or Bible studies may prove to be helpful - ya know, checking out multiple viewpoints can be helpful for expanding one's horizon -
but as a Christian and student of the Bible I try to adhere to the directive in I Thessalonians 5: 21 - prove all things hold fast to that which is good....i take that to mean that not only should i compare scripture reference with other scripture....but also see if it makes sense to me - intellectually... and morally, i guess....even then who knows for sure if there's even a definitive answer on some things - like the interpretation of the book of Revelation.
so needless to say i don't agree with everything i read - but exercise my freedom to pick and choose what i think seems right.
T-Bone, I hear ya, I feel the same way. Some things in some of the books or internet pages I've read havent seemed correct or not fully taught-not complete, so I've often sought out more information to see if what was taught is wonky and/or also to look at it deeper. It's also the reason why I've not invested in commentaries in the past, since that is someone else's opinion on scripture too. But, wrestling with some difficult scriptures, especially those which have both foretold a past event and are still foretelling an end times event, they really seem to need scholarly insight to help decipher and flesh out what meanings are involved. Plus commentaries seem to be a huge timesaver since searching scriptures and sources can be quite slow moving.
There is so much that is still undiscovered or unanswered or not understood about God and the scriptures, but that's also another function of this forum here. In essence, a board of review is here waiting for anyone to share their ideas and get input or to seek answers and get input, good or bad, it's all fair game.
If you suppose that we are currently living in "the millennium," and if:
...then exactly when do you think the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and a little child shall lead them, or when will the wolf and the lamb feed together, and the lion eat straw like the bullock? Or when shall the days of His people be as the days of a tree?
not hardly... but given you're the second in a week to suggest I could be, why do you ask?
If the phrase "1000 years" was written somewhere within Isaiah chapters 11 & 65 I would say you have a good case.
Isaiah 65:17 states: “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. The time period of Isaiah 65:17 appears to be the "new heavens & earth" not the 1000 years.
I remember years ago reading about Jewish symbolism that Lambs symbolize Israelites and Wolves symbolize Gentiles. I think the old testament prophecies in some cases have been taken literally which has distorted the original meaning. I could go on and on so to make a long story short I'm not convinced that Isaiah 11 is referring to the 1000 years. If it is that wouldn't change my beliefs because I don't see the 1000(symbolic number) year reign as happening here on earth. I believe that the kingdom began during the destruction of Jerusalem & Temple(70AD) where a mass resurrection occurred(1st resurrection of Rev. 20) and the Saints took possession of the Kingdom (Dan. 7). Christ returned in the 66-70AD time period in the clouds above Jerusalem which was a judgement coming as well. Hopefully I have the time to post the verses in the new testament where the apostles were expecting a soon return of Christ in their lifetime and no they weren't intentionally deceived by God.
I found this great explaination of The Feast of Tabernacles or Sukkot, which also happens in the fall every year, either at the end of September or in October. The week long celebration starts this year on October 5, 2017. I should have included it in the first post on this thread as a source for Jewish holidays coming up this fall.
"The festivals reflect the agricultural economy of Ancient Israel. The Feast of Tabernacles was also called the “feast of ingathering,” because it was a time of thanksgiving for the autumn harvest and of prayers for abundant rain to prepare the soil for the next harvest. It marked the end of the harvest and the start of a new season, foreshadowing the spiritual harvest at the end of the age which will take us into the season of joy at the renewal of all things.
Every male in Israel had to appear before the LORD, bringing with them their tithes and freewill offerings for the upkeep of the Temple and the Priesthood who performed the sacrificial rituals on behalf of the whole nation. No Israelite was to appear empty-handed before the LORD! They were to give in proportion to the blessing that they had received from the LORD. (Dt. 16:17) The people appeared before the Lord waving the lulav in one hand and carrying the etrog (citrus fruit) in the other, the lulav as a reminder of their sojourning in the desert, the etrog representing the fruitfulness of the land which the Lord had given them. The spiritual application of these things in the life of the believer is readily apparent. We have been appointed to bear fruit that will last. Jesus told his disciples, “This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples” (Jn.15:8).
As believers we celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles looking both forward and backward. We look back with thankful hearts to our deliverance from bondage to sin, but are conscious that the harvest has not yet been fully gathered in. We also look ahead in eager anticipation to the joyous celebration that will accompany the final ingathering of the harvest.
Jesus said, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field” (Matthew 9:37-38).
There is a beautiful allusion to the ‘feast of ingathering’ in the book of Revelation. The multitude of worshipers before the throne is pictured carrying palm branches and singing a song reminiscent of the great Hosanna.
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches (lulav) in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb” (Revelation 7: 9-10).
Further on in the passage it is said that the One who sits upon the throne “will spread his tent over them” and, “lead them to springs of living water.” Herein are represented all of the great themes of the feast of Tabernacles.
THE “SUKKAH” – OUR TEMPORARY DWELLING
The people were instructed to leave the security of their permanent dwellings and to live in booths made from leafy branches and palm fronds for seven days. This was to remind them that when they sojourned through the desert, living in booths, the Lord led and sustained them for forty years. The Lord is our strength and our refuge."
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There's more background on the website, it's interesting how this is an Jewish celebration feast and also a remembrance, but also applies the the Body of Christ as the harvest of sorts.
This link below also is concerning Jewish celebrations and holy days, it gives a good descriptions of the major ones:
On 7/27/2017 at 7:58 PM, Infoabsorption said:
If it is that wouldn't change my beliefs because I don't see the 1000(symbolic number) year reign as happening here on earth.
Well, evidently there can comes a point where very little, if anything, results in any change of what someone believes. Seems a shame, though, when someone promoting their position as "scriptural" would so easily cast other scriptural evidence or reasoning aside.
Here https://www.preteristarchive.com/lloyd-dale-a-different-preterist-perspective-2002/ is the closest thing I could find to my position regarding the millennium. This should clear up some confusion since my position differs slightly from the typical partial preterist position. Also Lloyd Dale is much more articulate than myself in explaining this position to non-preterists.
It's actually not that your view on the matter that's unclear to me. You see the millennial kingdom as "in progress now," and I don't. And at this point, evidently there isn't much that's going to ever change your mind about that. So, we'll end up (at best) agreeing to disagree.
I found this article in the link below, well presented and compelling with much background information and good arguments from the author regarding the September 23rd planetary alignments.
I strongly encourage you to read the whole article on this webpage and not just the excerpts I print here. Bear in mind this article is an interpretation from a viewpoint, take it for what it is. I don't agree with everything written but feel overall there's some great end times information. This individual has done so much more research and had much more time than I in the subject matter and in my opinion, has put together a well written dialogue.
Let us not forget that two of the greatest days in all Christendom have occurred on Jewish feast days-the day of Christ's sacrifice for us- The Passover, and the day of Pentecost. I believe Jewish holy days are still of some significance to God and relevant as we, the Church of the One Body, are the wild olive tree being grafted into Israel's own olive tree, as Israel is once again in the future, grafted back in to the tree we share together.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
The author states, "These very seasons, namely the last days, were not only foreknown but they were planned. The appointed time which is taking place in September 2017 is the Feast of Trumpets."
"The Feast of Trumpets is one of only 3 Jewish Feasts that has yet to be fulfilled. Jesus was crucified on Passover, buried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, resurrected on First Fruits, and The Holy Spirit descended on Pentecost. The three feasts left to be fulfilled are the Feast of Trumpets, the Feast of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. We know that the Feast of Atonement is the day of judgment and the Feast of Tabernacles is when Jesus takes His throne in the Millennial Kingdom. This leaves the Feast of Trumpets, the appointed time yet to be fulfilled, the feast shrouded in mystery."
Again, I highly suggest you read the whole article but here are excerpts below to hopefully "wet your appetite" to read it:
"The information I’ve been covering may be exhausting but it is by no means exhaustive. My hope is to wet your appetite and encourage you to begin study in prophecy and pay attention to the signs in the heavens. Anytime I tell a believer about the Virgo 2017 sign one of two responses follow. Either “no man knows the day or the hour” or “I don’t believe in astrology”. To the first I say “could we know the week?” and to the second I say “I don’t either but I believe in a God that made the heavens for signs and seasons”. The church tends to get caught in two extremes, date setting without looking at God’s calendar or turning a blind eye to God’s magnificence on display in the heavens. By taking the time to look at biblical prophecy through a Jewish lens, God’s calendar and the signs in the heavens you cannot help but worship the Creator not bound by time,The Alpha and Omega, The beginning and the end, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Taking the meaning of each star and planet covered above through all cultures for : Regulus, Venus, Mars, Mercury, Sun, Spica, Jupiter, and the moon the message is clear.
When we put it together we have this:
The King, The Lion of Judah, The Morningstar of Love, The Coming War, The Written Word, The One Who Breathed Life Into Being and Light Into Darkness, Is Gathering the Wheat, The King Is Arriving As Lightning With Grace For His Virgin." "
"The heavens during Jesus' first coming :
What takes place in the heavens is directly linked to God’s plan of redemption. Each star has a meaning in the fulfillment of His divine order. It is helpful to understand that Jupiter is known as the “King Planet”, Regulus is the “King Star”, Leo represents the Lion of Judah and Virgo is the Virgin or Mary. Remember, the heavens declare the glory of God and these representations in the heavens are not far fetched applications nor are they limited to a Christian perspective.
On September 11, 3 B.C. there is a unique collaboration of events in the heavens. Jupiter (King Planet) encircles Regulus (King Star) three times all while in the constellation Leo (Lion of Judah). Jupiter passes Regulus every 10-20 years but the rare quality of this event is that on this occasion it encircles it not once but three times on the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, The Feast of Trumpets.
On June 17th, 2 B.C. exactly 40 weeks (the typical human gestation period) Jupiter is positioned directly over Jerusalem in the heart of Leo (The Lion of Judah).
On December 25th, 2 B.C after moving 15 months without stop Jupiter enters retrograde motion directly above Bethlehem. If you take this all into account we have Jesus being conceived September 11, 3 B.C. (Feast of Trumpets), 9 months later He is born with the King Planet directly above Jerusalem while in the heart of Leo (Lion of Judah). Six months later we have the star of Bethlehem or King Planet directly above the town of Bethlehem. If you are honest with yourself you cannot conclude these are coincidences.
If you believe this to be far fetched I implore you to download www.stellarium.org and check for yourself. You don’t have to work for NASA, even an elementary familiarity of astronomy can reveal a remarkable glimpse into His sovereign order.
The humanists are using technology in an attempt to become God. We should employ the same technology to reveal the One True God who knows the end from the beginning. More information can be found at www.bethlehemstar.net as well."
"Genesis 6:3: And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. This could represent 120 jubilee years. In Leviticus 25 a jubilee year occurs every 50 years; 120X50 = 6,000 years."
"According to www.torahcalendar.com (they've calculated the lunar cycles (God's true calendar) for the last 6,000 years using advanced technology)) the year 6,000 began October 5th 2014 and ends on 15th September 2015."
"The Great Sign in Heaven of Revelation 12
a great sign appeared in heaven a woman clothed with the Sun and the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of twelve stars and she was with child and she cried out being inlabor and in pain to give birth.
Jesus called such events fearful sights and great signs from heaven. The great sign from heaven will be the largest sign that has ever heralded a prophetic event. We are on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. It is three in the morning on September 23rd 2017. The first constellation and the great sign is rising above the horizon. This is Leo, the constellation of the Royal lion. When the dawn breaks, we will see that leo is worn as a crown of royalty by the Virgin princess. The lion forms the appropriate crown for her because she is of the house of David. The Lion of the tribe of Judah. Significantly, this is the highest well-managed of all the nations. This means the Virgin is also born of the lineage of the high scepter of the seat of Adam and her belly is the second Adam the savior of the world on this fateful day. The Virgin is clothed in the sun and the moon is at her feet. Sunlight floods the sky. The prophecy clearly states that the great sign is to appear in the heaven. High Noon approaches ,then on this special day the Sun turns as black assackcloth and the stars quickly fill the sky. Just like on the day of the crucifixion it will remain dark for an incredible three hours.
We stop the motion, zoom in, we fill the screen with our two constellations to better see how the constellations are formed. We generate blue lines between their stars, then we turn off the constellation artwork leaving us with the lines of each constellation. We first turn our attention to the constellation of Leo and Leo the alpha or brightest star is Regulus. The regal kingstar. Eight additional bright stars are used to form the constellation, but this leaves us three stars short of the 12 stars prophesied to crown the Virgin on this special day. 3 wandering stars are in rare formation within the boundaries of Leo. They are Venus Mars and Mercury. This gives us the prophesied 12 stars to form the crown. Now we move to virgo. Her left hip is formed of the alpha star named spica which means the seed. Her right hip is formed by the Zeta star, which name means the branch. On this day the Virgin is to give birth to the king planet between these two stars. Jupiter the King planet images the rescuing power of our Messiah. Because of this planet's gravitational strength it takes countless hits or impacts for us from many of the dangerous objects that cross into the inner solar system.
Also, the King planet has just spent nine months in the belly of the Virgin reinforcing the prophetic imagery of the scripture. To illustrate this wonder we will now run the clock backward for a year. Notice that the King planet stops and turns around twice in retrograde motion while in the belly of the Virgin. In turn the moon flies by along the ecliptic every month. This action by the moon will give us a means to mark the passing of the months. We stop our backward motion. We now change into forward motion. We pause the motion as Jupiter enters the belly of the Virgin. Now count the times that the moon flies by as Jupiter is in the Virgin's belly. Are you ready?
123456789, and in just under 10 months we arrive back at our faithful september 23rd 2017. Now we will recap the prophetic imagery in the great sign. First we have Virgo the virgin princess imaging the Virgin Mary. Second the Virgin is clothed in the Sun imaging the life-giving spirit of God. Third the crescent moon is at her feet heralding this day as the Jewish feast of trumpets. Fourth on this day the Virgin also has a special crown of twelve stars representing the lineage of the high throne of the nation of Israel. Fifth the virgin gives birth to the Crown Prince the Messiah. Sixth the crown prince has just spent a long nine months in her womb, the time of human gestation. Seven so we can see this wonder, a special heavenly event causes the sky to fall dart for three hours in the middle of the day the combination of all seven of these independent actions into a great sign brings to life the exact imagery of the prophecy.
However if this sign were to occur repeatedly in the course of the travels of the planets then how could we interpret it as a significant event? How often does this configuration occur in the heavens? The answer. It occurs only this one time. At no other time is the Virgin clothed in the Sun with the moon at her feet while she is wearing a crown of twelve stars at the same time she gives birth. We have found no astronomy program that shows this configuration occurring at any other time throughout history from the days of Adam, 6,000 years in the past, until the end of the millennial reign 1,000 years into our future. Yet this wonder was described in detail in Revelation chapter 12 nearly 2,000 years ago. The astounding fulfillment of this great prophecy is like a clarion blast of God's trumpet broadcasting to all that the sign is a magnificent herald of end times events. Furthermore, its appearance is to occur on the exact day the Lord indicating a plan he laid out before he created the heavens....It is also the 70 year anniversary of the UN resolution allowing for Israel to be recognized as a state. It is 70 years from 1947 to the rebirth of Israel."
Luke 21:25 There will be signs in the sun moon and stars...
Jesus said this. Then is it OK to look for them? The answer is Yes!
I found this article in the link below, well presented and compelling with much background information and good arguments from the author regarding the September 23rd planetary alignments.
I strongly encourage you to read the whole article on this webpage and not just the excerpts I print here. Bear in mind this article is an interpretation from a viewpoint, take it for what it is. I don't agree with everything written but feel overall there's some great end times information. This individual has done so much more research and had much more time than I in the subject matter and in my opinion, has put together a well written dialogue.
Let us not forget that two of the greatest days in all Christendom have occurred on Jewish feast days-the day of Christ's sacrifice for us- The Passover, and the day of Pentecost. I believe Jewish holy days are still of some significance to God and relevant as we, the Church of the One Body, are the wild olive tree being grafted into Israel's own olive tree, as Israel is once again in the future, grafted back in to the tree we share together.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
The author states, "These very seasons, namely the last days, were not only foreknown but they were planned. The appointed time which is taking place in September 2017 is the Feast of Trumpets."....
(SNIP)
...Luke 21:25 There will be signs in the sun moon and stars...
Jesus said this. Then is it OK to look for them? The answer is Yes!
some very interesting stuff there Thor....thanks for sharing all that - especially that link - - a one time astronomical event ! lots of stuff to think about.
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thor
I found this article in the link below, well presented and compelling with much background information and good arguments from the author regarding the September 23rd planetary alignments. I stro
thor
I'm interested in your opinions on what's below. Recently I stumbled across all this while looking up something about the pyramids at Giza, stars, and Jewish holidays & holy days on the inter
mamouda
Sorry English not my mother tongue... The teachings, some things were off but we didn't see them really, we just believed what was said such as : needs and wants parallels... or If you don't tithe God
Bolshevik
Well the Koch brothers do have their own interests
Not meaning to imply the video I posted is absolutely how ancient pyramid building was done. It does open up possibilities, IMO.
With so many possibilities that can be posited, there's numerous explanations and ways of connecting everything, that fit like a hand in a glove.
For what purpose is one chosen over all others? What does Heron's view ultimately accomplish? (is it just for fun?)
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thor
T-Bone, I concur, the pyramid conclusion is hard to swallow as well as some other points he writes about. There's a lot of end times passages in scripture that have no obvious answers and some that we can surmise we know the answer, but who knows, it's like seeing thru a glass darkly. Maybe we'll know after the Lord returns and that might have to be sufficient.
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T-Bone
I agree Thor....all this stuff is interesting though...like I said I have one of his books...like a lot of things - I can get into stuff as long as I can pick and choose what makes sense to me and I'm not expected to buy the whole package.
I'm not one to flat out reject an entire work just because I'm not satisfied with one or two points.
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waysider
If I understand correctly, Isaiah was written approximately 2,000 years after the pyramids were built.
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T-Bone
I haven’t thought about the timeline on that, Waysider - but that makes sense to me…another reason to consider it prophetic…and looking at a few commentaries on Isaiah 19, I get the same gist…
19 In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord near its border. 20 It will become a sign and a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the Lord because of oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Champion, and He will deliver them. Isaiah 19:19, 20 NASB
Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on The Old Testament, Volume 7, Isaiah, page 365 says the fulfilment of this prophecy – would be something built by the Jews for the Jews…(that also makes me think of what went into building the original temple in I Kings 5 & following by King Solomon…according to God’s specs with its cosmological and royal symbolism to teach his people the absolute sovereignty of the Lord over his creation and his special relationship as Lord over Israel – but I digress – sorry ).
The Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary Volume 1: Old Testament, on page 1077 also says the final fulfillment of this passage has not yet come. Regarding the pillar situated on the border of Egypt, this commentary suggests that symbolizes the claiming of the land for the true and living God…I should add a note from The Zondervan NIV Study Bible (page 1061) that ties in to this – it says the reference appears to be to a conversion to the Lord of a significant number of Egyptians! And along a similar vein The New Bible Commentary: Revised on page 602 says there will be (referring to sometime in the future) holy ground where all was once profane.
== == == == ==
ok, now a different train of thought on a couple of posts by Thor ...
Hey Thor, I haven’t said anything about your first post – but now putting all this pyramid stuff aside for a moment – your mention of the total eclipses in 2017 and 2024 really caught my attention…I know zilch about astronomy or the Bible and astronomical references therein but I try to keep an open mind – with critical thinking engaged, of course…and my mind mulls over what you said....and my faith says what if…yes…what if something really big does happen around the time of the September 2017 eclipse. Yowzer!...we shall see...
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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thor
Waysider, now I understand what you meant by this, I should have asked for clarification :)
Isaiah 19:23
In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
T-Bone, yes, the prophetic verse about the Jews, the Egyptians, and the Assyrians worshiping the true God together, definitely future prophecy. Makes sense, holy ground which was once profane. Hmmm. Maybe That's what's meant by the altar, pillar and sign in Egypt too. You know there may have been a rough stone altar/temple built by Abraham originally in Jerusalem. Maybe it will be something like that, or maybe bigger to serve as a sign.
In my understanding of the scriptures, Luke 21 (and other books), describe the reason the Jews had to abandon Jerusalem and get driven into Egypt along with others. It happens 3 1/2 years after the Tribulation, when the antichrist (Nephilim?) takes over the rebuilt 3rd Temple in Jerusalem, stops the Jews from performing offerings or sacrifices, declares he is god, war breaks out by the King of the North with assorted Arab countries and makes a drive into Jerusalem attacking. Jerusalem is partly destroyed, 1/3 of Jews killed, and the remainder Jews scatter to the mountains or wilderness, and told not to come back to Jerusalem by God. Those Jews who don't leave will be asked to worship the antichrist or get thrown into prison, or die for following the true God.
At some point the Euphrates dries up enabling large transport and crossings, and the King of the East with 20 million soldiers drives from the eastern flank toward Jerusalem. Interesting side note, china is already making agreements with other countries to start building superhighways beyond their borders linking china with the Middle East and Europe. Interesting stuff.
We shall! We might not know the exact hour or day, but perhaps the months. I think it's ok to contemplate it and even search out knowledge and clues from scripture about it, and it's fun too. It actually makes me draw closer to God, and realize that time in earth is short, so do what we can to draw close to Him and to our families, loved ones and reach out to those who haven't heard.
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thor
T-Bone, how useful/helpful are the 2 Reference books you listed, the Zondervan commentary and Keli & Delitzsch Commentary? I don't own these, should I add them to my library, and as a bonus they're not too expensive on Amazon Kindle or used?
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Infoabsorption
I see the Book of Daniel as fulfilled. The prophecies given to Daniel point to the end of the Law age. That is why in Matt. 24 Christ made a reference to The Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place(Dan.9) in reply to the disciples questions about the temple being destroyed and the end of the world(Gr. aiōnos) meaning "age" not the Greek word kosmos. So at 70 AD the end of age of the Law was finalized with the destruction of the sanctuary(temple). 30AD - 70AD was a transition period. God gave Israel an approx. 40 year window to change it's ways. The disciples connected the destruction of the temple to Christ's coming(parousia) and the end of the age. They heard Jesus speak of the destruction of the temple and his coming before but during that conversation recorded in Matt. 24 the disciples wanted more detail.
Now getting to your question on my views of the return of Christ. Us Preterists disagree on this just as much as futurists disagree. I'm a rarity when it comes to Partial Preterism. Most Partial Preterists are post-millennial meaning Christ returns in final judgement at the end of the millennium and during that return the resurrections and judgements occur. I believe there are 2 comings or returns which includes a resurrection with each coming. 1 at the beginning of the millennium and 1 at the end. The 1st one occurred during the time of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD. In Matthew 24:30 you get a glimpse of that. In Daniel 12 verses 1&2 a resurrection occurs at a time of great distress of Daniel's people(66-70AD). In Daniel 7:9-10 thrones are set in place and thousands and thousands stand before the Lord and the court was seated etc. Judgement was pronounced in favor of the holy people and they possessed the kingdom at the time the 11th horn(Titus) of the 4th beast(Rome) oppresses the holy people(Israel) for a time, times, and half a time(31/2 years). The beginning of the Roman attack on Israel to the destruction of Jerusalem from 66-70AD was 3 1/2 years.
Looking at Rev. 20 Satan is seized and bound for a thousand years. John then describes thrones and describes the souls of the martyrs of the Beast(pre-70AD Rome). They came to life and reign with Christ for 1000 years. There is a lot written in the history books about the martyrs of Rome during this time period. Now look at Rev 20 verse 5: 5 "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection." The 1st resurrection occurred during the time of great distress of Israel where the temple is destroyed(70AD). I don't see any of this as future. In Revelation 1:1 within the prologue John states: " 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."
In our future(Rev. 20:7-15)
Satan is released for a short while
Gog & Magog
Forces of evil surrounding the camp of God's people
Fire coming down out of heaven(Christ's return in final judgement)
Satan thrown into the lake of fire(where the Beast and False prophet already are...these fallen angles were judged at 70AD)
Great White Throne Judgement (2nd resurrection)
New Heavens & Earth(Rev. 21)
"Then I don't see what or why you think Israel is either being favored or being prepared for anything (however you care to think of it.)"
I believe modern day Israel will ultimately believe on Christ and be saved. Also Gog & Magog.
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TLC
Then you're a Universalist?
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Infoabsorption
huh? Universalist ? I didn't mean that every singe Jew now alive will believe. I was speaking(or writing) in general terms. Apparently there are some orthodox Jews in Israel coming around and accepting Christ. I've heard a few stories along those lines.
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T-Bone
well, Thor both are quite useful; note my Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary is an abridged 2 volume set...single volume commentaries are great for getting right to the main point or just getting an overview or a feel for a particular book or chapter of the Bible.
Keil & Delitzsch commentary is very detailed and will often give a little more background than an abridged commentary; for instance, on the same page (365) that I referred to in my post about Isaiah 19: 19 & 20, K&D said those verses are what Onias IV appealed to, when he sought permission of Ptolemaeus Philometor to build a temple of Jehovah in Egypt; he built such a temple to the northeast of Memphis (Elvis has left the building…no, not that Memphis
); the temple was unlike the temple of Jerusalem - being built in the form of a castle, and stood for more than 200 years – from 160 BC to AD 71…well, maybe that's too much extraneous or unnecessary info for some folks but I enjoy reading about things like that; but it is jammed packed with pertinent details on the language, root words, texts, historical context, textual context, as well as cross references too.
I have more hardback editions than eBooks - personal preference I guess - if I'm working with multiple commentaries for me it's easier with real books
- like my previous post...I've got links to the ones you asked about - and I added another that I enjoy on my Kindle app -- the Moody Bible Commentary - btw I find it easier to read commentaries and anything technical on an iPad with a Kindle app than on my Kindle... i do read a lot of fiction and non-fiction like history stuff on my Kindle - but it there's a lot of pictures or charts, graphs, etc. I use my iPad.
Keil & Delitzsch hardbacks with CD
Kindle edition of Keil & Delitzsch
Zondervan NIV Comm. Vol 1
Zondervan NIV Comm. Vol 2
Moody Bible Commentary Kindle edition
Edited by T-Bonebonus features of DVD
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TLC
Then the "generality" surrounding your reference to Gog and Magog also being saved makes no sense. In other words, I haven't yet been able to figure out how or who (and why) you think (anyone) is going to be saved, much less see what you think being "saved" actually means.
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thor
Wow, T-Bone, great response! Thanks for the suggestions! You know, I've never owned a commentary and have shied away from them in the past, but lately I'm appreciating the input of scholars who've really worked and studied the scriptures. I'm realizing those who have gone before me can really flesh out those hard to understand passages.
I'm with you on the iPad vs kindle, I tend to favor using the kindle app on both iPad and iPhone although I often also have a hard copy too in addition to the digital, and I get audiobook additions for driving across town or longer trips. I really enjoy using the word search option of kindle books for key word searches, very useful especially if I forget where in the book to look for what I want.
Thanks again, I'm going to check them out on Amazon.
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Infoabsorption
Sometimes when I'm in a hurry I don't write in such a way that would make my replies clearer to the reader.
Your question to me was this: " Then I don't see what or why you think Israel is either being favored or being prepared for anything (however you care to think of it.)"
I believe Gog & Magog to be a future event which is one of the things Israel may be prepared for. It had nothing to do with my 1st sentence about Israel being "saved". I guess I'm old school where being saved to me simply refers to the new birth, born again, etc.
TLC, are you a lawyer by trade?
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TLC
If you suppose that we are currently living in "the millennium," and if:
...then exactly when do you think the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and a little child shall lead them, or when will the wolf and the lamb feed together, and the lion eat straw like the bullock? Or when shall the days of His people be as the days of a tree?
not hardly... but given you're the second in a week to suggest I could be, why do you ask?
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T-Bone
you're welcome Thor !!!!
hey, judging by your thought-provoking posts I believe you already know this - but for the sake of the wider audience (although I'm preaching to the choir at Grease Spot - uhmmmm - so maybe folks still in TWI or offshoots- anyway...) i just wanted to add something to what i said previously: any commentaries, systematic theologies, or Bible studies may prove to be helpful - ya know, checking out multiple viewpoints can be helpful for expanding one's horizon -
but as a Christian and student of the Bible I try to adhere to the directive in I Thessalonians 5: 21 - prove all things hold fast to that which is good....i take that to mean that not only should i compare scripture reference with other scripture....but also see if it makes sense to me - intellectually... and morally, i guess....even then who knows for sure if there's even a definitive answer on some things - like the interpretation of the book of Revelation.
so needless to say i don't agree with everything i read - but exercise my freedom to pick and choose what i think seems right.
Edited by T-Boneneeded more time
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thor
T-Bone, I hear ya, I feel the same way. Some things in some of the books or internet pages I've read havent seemed correct or not fully taught-not complete, so I've often sought out more information to see if what was taught is wonky and/or also to look at it deeper. It's also the reason why I've not invested in commentaries in the past, since that is someone else's opinion on scripture too. But, wrestling with some difficult scriptures, especially those which have both foretold a past event and are still foretelling an end times event, they really seem to need scholarly insight to help decipher and flesh out what meanings are involved. Plus commentaries seem to be a huge timesaver since searching scriptures and sources can be quite slow moving.
There is so much that is still undiscovered or unanswered or not understood about God and the scriptures, but that's also another function of this forum here. In essence, a board of review is here waiting for anyone to share their ideas and get input or to seek answers and get input, good or bad, it's all fair game.
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Infoabsorption
If the phrase "1000 years" was written somewhere within Isaiah chapters 11 & 65 I would say you have a good case.
Isaiah 65:17 states: “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. The time period of Isaiah 65:17 appears to be the "new heavens & earth" not the 1000 years.
I remember years ago reading about Jewish symbolism that Lambs symbolize Israelites and Wolves symbolize Gentiles. I think the old testament prophecies in some cases have been taken literally which has distorted the original meaning. I could go on and on so to make a long story short I'm not convinced that Isaiah 11 is referring to the 1000 years. If it is that wouldn't change my beliefs because I don't see the 1000(symbolic number) year reign as happening here on earth. I believe that the kingdom began during the destruction of Jerusalem & Temple(70AD) where a mass resurrection occurred(1st resurrection of Rev. 20) and the Saints took possession of the Kingdom (Dan. 7). Christ returned in the 66-70AD time period in the clouds above Jerusalem which was a judgement coming as well. Hopefully I have the time to post the verses in the new testament where the apostles were expecting a soon return of Christ in their lifetime and no they weren't intentionally deceived by God.
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thor
I found this great explaination of The Feast of Tabernacles or Sukkot, which also happens in the fall every year, either at the end of September or in October. The week long celebration starts this year on October 5, 2017. I should have included it in the first post on this thread as a source for Jewish holidays coming up this fall.
Below is a excerpt from this website:
http://www.messianicgoodnews.org/the-feast-of-tabernacles-sukkot/
"INGATHERING OF THE HARVEST"
"The festivals reflect the agricultural economy of Ancient Israel. The Feast of Tabernacles was also called the “feast of ingathering,” because it was a time of thanksgiving for the autumn harvest and of prayers for abundant rain to prepare the soil for the next harvest. It marked the end of the harvest and the start of a new season, foreshadowing the spiritual harvest at the end of the age which will take us into the season of joy at the renewal of all things.
Every male in Israel had to appear before the LORD, bringing with them their tithes and freewill offerings for the upkeep of the Temple and the Priesthood who performed the sacrificial rituals on behalf of the whole nation. No Israelite was to appear empty-handed before the LORD! They were to give in proportion to the blessing that they had received from the LORD. (Dt. 16:17) The people appeared before the Lord waving the lulav in one hand and carrying the etrog (citrus fruit) in the other, the lulav as a reminder of their sojourning in the desert, the etrog representing the fruitfulness of the land which the Lord had given them. The spiritual application of these things in the life of the believer is readily apparent. We have been appointed to bear fruit that will last. Jesus told his disciples, “This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples” (Jn.15:8).
As believers we celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles looking both forward and backward. We look back with thankful hearts to our deliverance from bondage to sin, but are conscious that the harvest has not yet been fully gathered in. We also look ahead in eager anticipation to the joyous celebration that will accompany the final ingathering of the harvest.
Jesus said, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field” (Matthew 9:37-38).
There is a beautiful allusion to the ‘feast of ingathering’ in the book of Revelation. The multitude of worshipers before the throne is pictured carrying palm branches and singing a song reminiscent of the great Hosanna.
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches (lulav) in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb” (Revelation 7: 9-10).
Further on in the passage it is said that the One who sits upon the throne “will spread his tent over them” and, “lead them to springs of living water.” Herein are represented all of the great themes of the feast of Tabernacles.
THE “SUKKAH” – OUR TEMPORARY DWELLING
The people were instructed to leave the security of their permanent dwellings and to live in booths made from leafy branches and palm fronds for seven days. This was to remind them that when they sojourned through the desert, living in booths, the Lord led and sustained them for forty years. The Lord is our strength and our refuge."
-----
There's more background on the website, it's interesting how this is an Jewish celebration feast and also a remembrance, but also applies the the Body of Christ as the harvest of sorts.
This link below also is concerning Jewish celebrations and holy days, it gives a good descriptions of the major ones:
http://biblelight.net/feasts.htm
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TLC
Well, evidently there can comes a point where very little, if anything, results in any change of what someone believes. Seems a shame, though, when someone promoting their position as "scriptural" would so easily cast other scriptural evidence or reasoning aside.
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Infoabsorption
TLC,
Here https://www.preteristarchive.com/lloyd-dale-a-different-preterist-perspective-2002/ is the closest thing I could find to my position regarding the millennium. This should clear up some confusion since my position differs slightly from the typical partial preterist position. Also Lloyd Dale is much more articulate than myself in explaining this position to non-preterists.
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TLC
It's actually not that your view on the matter that's unclear to me. You see the millennial kingdom as "in progress now," and I don't. And at this point, evidently there isn't much that's going to ever change your mind about that. So, we'll end up (at best) agreeing to disagree.
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thor
I found this article in the link below, well presented and compelling with much background information and good arguments from the author regarding the September 23rd planetary alignments.
I strongly encourage you to read the whole article on this webpage and not just the excerpts I print here. Bear in mind this article is an interpretation from a viewpoint, take it for what it is. I don't agree with everything written but feel overall there's some great end times information. This individual has done so much more research and had much more time than I in the subject matter and in my opinion, has put together a well written dialogue.
http://www.heavenlysign2017.com/supporting-data.html
Let us not forget that two of the greatest days in all Christendom have occurred on Jewish feast days-the day of Christ's sacrifice for us- The Passover, and the day of Pentecost. I believe Jewish holy days are still of some significance to God and relevant as we, the Church of the One Body, are the wild olive tree being grafted into Israel's own olive tree, as Israel is once again in the future, grafted back in to the tree we share together.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
The author states, "These very seasons, namely the last days, were not only foreknown but they were planned. The appointed time which is taking place in September 2017 is the Feast of Trumpets."
"The Feast of Trumpets is one of only 3 Jewish Feasts that has yet to be fulfilled. Jesus was crucified on Passover, buried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, resurrected on First Fruits, and The Holy Spirit descended on Pentecost. The three feasts left to be fulfilled are the Feast of Trumpets, the Feast of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. We know that the Feast of Atonement is the day of judgment and the Feast of Tabernacles is when Jesus takes His throne in the Millennial Kingdom. This leaves the Feast of Trumpets, the appointed time yet to be fulfilled, the feast shrouded in mystery."
Again, I highly suggest you read the whole article but here are excerpts below to hopefully "wet your appetite" to read it:
"The information I’ve been covering may be exhausting but it is by no means exhaustive. My hope is to wet your appetite and encourage you to begin study in prophecy and pay attention to the signs in the heavens. Anytime I tell a believer about the Virgo 2017 sign one of two responses follow. Either “no man knows the day or the hour” or “I don’t believe in astrology”. To the first I say “could we know the week?” and to the second I say “I don’t either but I believe in a God that made the heavens for signs and seasons”. The church tends to get caught in two extremes, date setting without looking at God’s calendar or turning a blind eye to God’s magnificence on display in the heavens. By taking the time to look at biblical prophecy through a Jewish lens, God’s calendar and the signs in the heavens you cannot help but worship the Creator not bound by time,The Alpha and Omega, The beginning and the end, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Taking the meaning of each star and planet covered above through all cultures for : Regulus, Venus, Mars, Mercury, Sun, Spica, Jupiter, and the moon the message is clear.
When we put it together we have this:
The King, The Lion of Judah, The Morningstar of Love, The Coming War, The Written Word, The One Who Breathed Life Into Being and Light Into Darkness, Is Gathering the Wheat, The King Is Arriving As Lightning With Grace For His Virgin." "
"The heavens during Jesus' first coming :
What takes place in the heavens is directly linked to God’s plan of redemption. Each star has a meaning in the fulfillment of His divine order. It is helpful to understand that Jupiter is known as the “King Planet”, Regulus is the “King Star”, Leo represents the Lion of Judah and Virgo is the Virgin or Mary. Remember, the heavens declare the glory of God and these representations in the heavens are not far fetched applications nor are they limited to a Christian perspective.
On September 11, 3 B.C. there is a unique collaboration of events in the heavens. Jupiter (King Planet) encircles Regulus (King Star) three times all while in the constellation Leo (Lion of Judah). Jupiter passes Regulus every 10-20 years but the rare quality of this event is that on this occasion it encircles it not once but three times on the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, The Feast of Trumpets.
On June 17th, 2 B.C. exactly 40 weeks (the typical human gestation period) Jupiter is positioned directly over Jerusalem in the heart of Leo (The Lion of Judah).
On December 25th, 2 B.C after moving 15 months without stop Jupiter enters retrograde motion directly above Bethlehem. If you take this all into account we have Jesus being conceived September 11, 3 B.C. (Feast of Trumpets), 9 months later He is born with the King Planet directly above Jerusalem while in the heart of Leo (Lion of Judah). Six months later we have the star of Bethlehem or King Planet directly above the town of Bethlehem. If you are honest with yourself you cannot conclude these are coincidences.
If you believe this to be far fetched I implore you to download www.stellarium.org and check for yourself. You don’t have to work for NASA, even an elementary familiarity of astronomy can reveal a remarkable glimpse into His sovereign order.
The humanists are using technology in an attempt to become God. We should employ the same technology to reveal the One True God who knows the end from the beginning. More information can be found at www.bethlehemstar.net as well."
"Genesis 6:3: And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. This could represent 120 jubilee years. In Leviticus 25 a jubilee year occurs every 50 years; 120X50 = 6,000 years."
"According to www.torahcalendar.com (they've calculated the lunar cycles (God's true calendar) for the last 6,000 years using advanced technology)) the year 6,000 began October 5th 2014 and ends on 15th September 2015."
"The Great Sign in Heaven of Revelation 12
a great sign appeared in heaven a woman clothed with the Sun and the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of twelve stars and she was with child and she cried out being inlabor and in pain to give birth.
Jesus called such events fearful sights and great signs from heaven. The great sign from heaven will be the largest sign that has ever heralded a prophetic event. We are on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. It is three in the morning on September 23rd 2017. The first constellation and the great sign is rising above the horizon. This is Leo, the constellation of the Royal lion. When the dawn breaks, we will see that leo is worn as a crown of royalty by the Virgin princess. The lion forms the appropriate crown for her because she is of the house of David. The Lion of the tribe of Judah. Significantly, this is the highest well-managed of all the nations. This means the Virgin is also born of the lineage of the high scepter of the seat of Adam and her belly is the second Adam the savior of the world on this fateful day. The Virgin is clothed in the sun and the moon is at her feet. Sunlight floods the sky. The prophecy clearly states that the great sign is to appear in the heaven. High Noon approaches ,then on this special day the Sun turns as black assackcloth and the stars quickly fill the sky. Just like on the day of the crucifixion it will remain dark for an incredible three hours.
We stop the motion, zoom in, we fill the screen with our two constellations to better see how the constellations are formed. We generate blue lines between their stars, then we turn off the constellation artwork leaving us with the lines of each constellation. We first turn our attention to the constellation of Leo and Leo the alpha or brightest star is Regulus. The regal kingstar. Eight additional bright stars are used to form the constellation, but this leaves us three stars short of the 12 stars prophesied to crown the Virgin on this special day. 3 wandering stars are in rare formation within the boundaries of Leo. They are Venus Mars and Mercury. This gives us the prophesied 12 stars to form the crown. Now we move to virgo. Her left hip is formed of the alpha star named spica which means the seed. Her right hip is formed by the Zeta star, which name means the branch. On this day the Virgin is to give birth to the king planet between these two stars. Jupiter the King planet images the rescuing power of our Messiah. Because of this planet's gravitational strength it takes countless hits or impacts for us from many of the dangerous objects that cross into the inner solar system.
Also, the King planet has just spent nine months in the belly of the Virgin reinforcing the prophetic imagery of the scripture. To illustrate this wonder we will now run the clock backward for a year. Notice that the King planet stops and turns around twice in retrograde motion while in the belly of the Virgin. In turn the moon flies by along the ecliptic every month. This action by the moon will give us a means to mark the passing of the months. We stop our backward motion. We now change into forward motion. We pause the motion as Jupiter enters the belly of the Virgin. Now count the times that the moon flies by as Jupiter is in the Virgin's belly. Are you ready?
123456789, and in just under 10 months we arrive back at our faithful september 23rd 2017. Now we will recap the prophetic imagery in the great sign. First we have Virgo the virgin princess imaging the Virgin Mary. Second the Virgin is clothed in the Sun imaging the life-giving spirit of God. Third the crescent moon is at her feet heralding this day as the Jewish feast of trumpets. Fourth on this day the Virgin also has a special crown of twelve stars representing the lineage of the high throne of the nation of Israel. Fifth the virgin gives birth to the Crown Prince the Messiah. Sixth the crown prince has just spent a long nine months in her womb, the time of human gestation. Seven so we can see this wonder, a special heavenly event causes the sky to fall dart for three hours in the middle of the day the combination of all seven of these independent actions into a great sign brings to life the exact imagery of the prophecy.
However if this sign were to occur repeatedly in the course of the travels of the planets then how could we interpret it as a significant event? How often does this configuration occur in the heavens? The answer. It occurs only this one time. At no other time is the Virgin clothed in the Sun with the moon at her feet while she is wearing a crown of twelve stars at the same time she gives birth. We have found no astronomy program that shows this configuration occurring at any other time throughout history from the days of Adam, 6,000 years in the past, until the end of the millennial reign 1,000 years into our future. Yet this wonder was described in detail in Revelation chapter 12 nearly 2,000 years ago. The astounding fulfillment of this great prophecy is like a clarion blast of God's trumpet broadcasting to all that the sign is a magnificent herald of end times events. Furthermore, its appearance is to occur on the exact day the Lord indicating a plan he laid out before he created the heavens....It is also the 70 year anniversary of the UN resolution allowing for Israel to be recognized as a state. It is 70 years from 1947 to the rebirth of Israel."
Luke 21:25 There will be signs in the sun moon and stars...
Jesus said this. Then is it OK to look for them? The answer is Yes!
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T-Bone
some very interesting stuff there Thor....thanks for sharing all that - especially that link - - a one time astronomical event ! lots of stuff to think about.
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