So, I listened to the first couple of seconds of a few of the recorded teachings.
Nothing very interesting.
Not only not very interesting but listening to the sis-in-law Mary Strickland sharing about 'happy endings' and remembering when we left twi her words to us "your neighbours now know what horrible people you are" (after a letter she wrote us was sent to them) and 'prophesying "our kids would grow up to be homos" because we were leaving twi...smacks of hypocrisy. We got our happy ending, wonder about hers ?
Not only not very interesting but listening to the sis-in-law Mary Strickland sharing about 'happy endings' and remembering when we left twi her words to us "your neighbours now know what horrible people you are" (after a letter she wrote us was sent to them) and 'prophesying "our kids would grow up to be homos" because we were leaving twi...smacks of hypocrisy. We got our happy ending, wonder about hers ?
Allan, she did what??!! You and your wife made the right decision for you. Perhaps she was jealous of you; you had the moxie to leave, and she didn't. I wonder how her life turned-out; she sounds like an unhappy person.
Allan, she did what??!! You and your wife made the right decision for you. Perhaps she was jealous of you; you had the moxie to leave, and she didn't. I wonder how her life turned-out; she sounds like an unhappy person.
So, I listened to the first couple of seconds of a few of the recorded teachings.
Nothing very interesting.
Uninteresting in a very specific way, for that matter. There's a common style for ex-twi. It can be done in a canned, artificial way, or in an interested, involved way. The latter is how people teach who actually care about who they're teaching and why. The former is how people in twi or ex-twi teach when they feel they're more important than the people they're supposedly teaching. It's accompanied by "phoning it in" in every way, with no remarkable insights marring the plastic teaching.
In other words, this isn't even a GOOD ex-twi clone.
Okay, so I took an alka seltzer to enable me to listen to all of it...TBH I didn't need to even read between the lines...a leopard usually doesn't change it's spots ! "enjoys one on ones", "exhort, encourage"...left out the 'rebuke' part..interestingly still not wanting to get really honest with herself and her God...all smileys and full of advice...until one says "o.k. I gotta go now "...growing up I had a little sister that would have friends over and have fun girly stuff. When her friends wanted to go home my sister would start trying to beat them up !! lol, funny the 'imagery' God gives.
Gimme the sermon I heard in church last Sunday, any time.
I really think that many of these people at R&R started out with a desire to love God, but got sidetracked along the way, fell into the ego tramp, and now they're climbing the greasy pedestal.
Mary likes to hang about and talk to people, especially newbies. Is that because it gives her the opportunity to show off her supposed knowledge?
It'd be nice if one or some of them spoke about the six months or year or more that they had spent volunteering daily (or at least weekly) at a shelter for homeless people, or for battered wives, or helping drug addicts, prostitutes, child laborers, and such like. You know, the ones with no money and a hard attitude to life. The ones who call "do-gooder" hypocrisy for what it is. Some place these teachers get their hands dirty in the sh-t of life. Fab opportunities to see people really turn their lives around; it's a very slow process.
Gimme the sermon I heard in church last Sunday, any time.
I really think that many of these people at R&R started out with a desire to love God, but got sidetracked along the way, fell into the ego tramp, and now they're climbing the greasy pedestal.
Mary likes to hang about and talk to people, especially newbies. Is that because it gives her the opportunity to show off her supposed knowledge?
It'd be nice if one or some of them spoke about the six months or year or more that they had spent volunteering daily (or at least weekly) at a shelter for homeless people, or for battered wives, or helping drug addicts, prostitutes, child laborers, and such like. You know, the ones with no money and a hard attitude to life. The ones who call "do-gooder" hypocrisy for what it is. Some place these teachers get their hands dirty in the sh-t of life. Fab opportunities to see people really turn their lives around; it's a very slow process.
That's fairly common in twi and in ex-twi communities, though. You might hear criticisms of people who volunteer and help others, but exhortations to help them are not nearly as common. They exist, but not in every group, and not all the time. The rank-and-file may already have more impressive track records on that sort of thing.
When I was in college, I was in a service organization, and logged some 40 hours of community service, etc per semester (sometimes more.) After a few years of me doing that, the ex-twi group at the time discussed, at the leadership level, the idea that it's good to do that sort of thing. Shocking for all the twi-trained people. For me, the mention from a local leader that this sort of thing was good was in the "and the water was actually wet?" category. I agreed, mentioned I had a few YEARS of experience with that sort of thing, and offered to advise them and pass information if he needed any. He was polite, but his face was easy to read. You'd think I was offering to perform a necessary surgery for him in a garage or something. The idea that I might have actually gotten experience and training they lacked and needed, and got it from a secular source, that was either shocking, repugnant, or shockingly repugnant.
That's fairly common in twi and in ex-twi communities, though. You might hear criticisms of people who volunteer and help others, but exhortations to help them are not nearly as common. They exist, but not in every group, and not all the time. The rank-and-file may already have more impressive track records on that sort of thing.
When I was in college, I was in a service organization, and logged some 40 hours of community service, etc per semester (sometimes more.) After a few years of me doing that, the ex-twi group at the time discussed, at the leadership level, the idea that it's good to do that sort of thing. Shocking for all the twi-trained people. For me, the mention from a local leader that this sort of thing was good was in the "and the water was actually wet?" category. I agreed, mentioned I had a few YEARS of experience with that sort of thing, and offered to advise them and pass information if he needed any. He was polite, but his face was easy to read. You'd think I was offering to perform a necessary surgery for him in a garage or something. The idea that I might have actually gotten experience and training they lacked and needed, and got it from a secular source, that was either shocking, repugnant, or shockingly repugnant.
WW, I think your post shows offers good insight into the heart of TWI; it claimed to be a Godly organization, but it wasn't. Years ago, I felt TWi wanted all of my money, and time. When I finally made this break through in my head, I realized I was right; and eventually left.
Some of the teachings have audio right on the page. However, for Rico, it gives a phone number and access code. Did you listen to his teaching on Obedience to the Household of Faith?
WTF do you think that might be about?
I really don't care what Rico's teaching is about. He is not R&R. In fact, I don't really care much about the R&R teachings, either.
Groups run by former TWI leaders seem to hide in plain sight, at least as far as the general public goes. Whenever I give presentations about Undertow, there is usually someone in the audience who asks about what shape TWI is in today. I inform them about the succession of presidents, the sale of properties, the decline of loyalists. BUT I also let them know about spinoff groups that perpetuate Way-style doctrines, teachings, meetings, behaviors, while most of the time NOT mentioning their origins in Wierwielle's outfit.
Signs of that origin would be catch phrases like "the accuracy of the Word," which is something fabricated by VPW, or rather stolen by him from other fundamentalist Christian writers. Most audiences have never heard of Bullinger, etc., so the challenge is to encourage folks who are more than casually interested to acquaint themselves with fundamentalism, not only cults. The ideology of cults varies. The Bible-based cults can seem legit at first, but research on them may tell a different story.
Reactions to this news of TWI spinoffs range between disgust and nervousness. I recommend people ask probing questions about the origin of any group recruiter who approaches them and ask about finances and what checks are in place on the power of the leader, and for the name of the person who ordained him or her, etc.
All the above is just my two cents ... Why do I still care about all this? Like most posters here at GSC, I don't like to see people betrayed like I was.
IMHO, the offshoots and their hypocritical, lying “leaders” are WORSE than dictor paul’s and da forehead’s AND Rosie the riveter’s TWIt personality cult. Why? Because every single one of them has accepted WHOLEHEARTEDLY the entire anti-Christ doctrine, practice and agenda of dictor paul’s Aryan Nazi religious CULT! EVERY SINGLE ONE, for 50 years now!! They are committed, dedicated, and totally reprobate with cauterized consciences. They are Pharisaical fundamentalists, false, and diabolically EVIL ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. Woe to them! Morons!
IMHO, the offshoots and their hypocritical, lying “leaders” are WORSE than dictor paul’s and da forehead’s AND Rosie the riveter’s TWIt personality cult. Why? Because every single one of them has accepted WHOLEHEARTEDLY the entire anti-Christ doctrine, practice and agenda of dictor paul’s Aryan Nazi religious CULT! EVERY SINGLE ONE, for 50 years now!! They are committed, dedicated, and totally reprobate with cauterized consciences. They are Pharisaical fundamentalists, false, and diabolically EVIL ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. Woe to them! Morons!
WOW ! Could not capture the words and essence any better than this !!
Maybe they are not yet, but don't be surprised if they are actually doing that and you just haven't heard about it. They may be keeping it secret and not making it publickly known.
Maybe they are not yet, but don't be surprised if they are actually doing that and you just haven't heard about it. They may be keeping it secret and not making it publickly known.
I agree, these people will not do this without expecting some kind of financial gain. One cannot seperate them from $$
On 4/10/2019 at 4:39 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:
Maybe they are not yet, but don't be surprised if they are actually doing that and you just haven't heard about it. They may be keeping it secret and not making it publickly known.
Not making it publicly known would be a strange way to try to get money from people. Don't you think?
Not making it publicly known would be a strange way to try to get money from people. Don't you think?
Not making it PUBLICKLY known means the public at large (you, me...) don't hear about it. They can still do things and keep from announcing them to the entire world wide web.
I knew some people who- legally- agreed to follow required standards- PUBLICKLY- and PRIVATELY showed no interest whatsoever in following them. Their rule was not to tell the authorities and not to get caught. No, I never joined THEIR organization.
It's the same way JAL no longer "officially"/PUBLICKLY shills for Momentus (or whatever the new, secret names changed to, I forget) , but when communicating PRIVATELY with people, he's been caught trying to get them to sign up. Repeatedly. I mean, vpw never PUBLICKLY announced he was going to drug and rape and molest women. Does that mean he didn't do it?
Interesting. I just found this, recently posted on a FB page set up by some ex-TWI folk. It's Vern Edwards's letter responding to the letter sent by the R&R folk that they sent complaining about the then BoD:
Vern Edwards letter
Dear Household Fellowship Coordinators,
As you are probably aware, the Placement Meetings have been taking place this week (thank you for your prayers!). And you may or may not be aware that there has been another group that is actively working in opposition to the Board of Directors and ministry leadership. This group has been led by Bob & Dottie Moynihan, Phil and Sue Shelton, and Ed and Jacque Horney. As of yesterday at the Placement Meetings, these individuals have been dropped from active Way Corps and are considered “mark and avoid”. This decision was made by the mutual agreement of Directors, the Officers, and the President’s Cabinet for the individuals’ divisive actions. Many efforts have been graciously extended to these individuals over the better part of a year, but to no avail.
Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
In Philippians there is a verse that is very appropriate to this subject.
Philippians 2:3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory….
Gleaning from both Bullinger’s and Thayer’s Lexicons, we find that strife is defined as “canvassing” or “factiousness”. From an English dictionary, canvassing is “to travel around an area asking people for something such as opinions, or votes”. A faction is defined as “a dissenting minority within a larger group.”
This faction is canvassing, persuading disciples to support their cause through fair words and good speeches (Romans 16:8). The individuals above have initiated a Facebook meeting called “Revival and Restoration Livestream Q&A.” Just to make it clear, this is NOT a ministry backed event. It should be very obvious by the very nature of the FB page. It is a mess of confusion, contention, arguing, and division; anything but decent and in order. When one person stands up for the ministry, they are instantly attacked. Today I see that most comments in support of the ministry have been taken down leaving only the comments of those who are agreeing with the Revival and Restoration group. On the FB page, several encourage others to listen to the Livestream event, after all, what harm is there in that? There is plenty of harm. What harm is there in fiery darts? What harm is there in dissenting words? What harm was there in Eve listening to the serpent? Paul confronted those who spoke words designed to divide and discredit, who sowed seeds of discord.
2 Corinthians 12:20: For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults.
Personally, I will not subject myself to any part of this meeting. My efforts will be put to glorifying God, moving His Word, and promoting unity of the spirit. If you have not read chapter 7, of Just the Way it Was, I would strongly encourage you to do so. This stuff is not new, but has historically been whipped up anytime there has been a transfer of leadership in The Way. Dr. Wierwille wrote the following in The New Dynamic Church, chapter 13, “Why Division?”.
“May God deliver us as the Church from being contentious and difficult, from maligning our brethren, from bickering and quarrelsomeness, from dividing the Body of Christ by our lack of enlightenment. There is too much division outside the Church; our solidarity is imperative to give us strength to move forward in spite of the opposition. May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be a part of the problem and become part of the answer. May we as members of Christ’s Body become so filled with love that we may be teachable and have our hearts opened to God’s Holy Word. And may we receive of Him and carry the blessings to all we meet, that they may see us and know we are His.”
The greatest thing we can do is to bring spiritual light to the dark world in which we live. Be the Christian in the room. Invite people to fellowship. Teach them what you know.
Acts 26:18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We have a strong ministry with a bright future. If any of you feel you need to talk, please call. My number is 315-638-2382. I am not into arguing or debating, but am keenly focused on spiritual truth and can perhaps shed light on any genuine concerns or questions you may have.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watchi
Watered Garden
I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Rever
penguin2
I never served at any of the top levels of the Way, but I did graduate from the corpse. I did hold some leadership positions. When I finally left twi, I told God I didn't want to lead again because I
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Allan
Not only not very interesting but listening to the sis-in-law Mary Strickland sharing about 'happy endings' and remembering when we left twi her words to us "your neighbours now know what horrible people you are" (after a letter she wrote us was sent to them) and 'prophesying "our kids would grow up to be homos" because we were leaving twi...smacks of hypocrisy. We got our happy ending, wonder about hers ?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Allan, she did what??!! You and your wife made the right decision for you. Perhaps she was jealous of you; you had the moxie to leave, and she didn't. I wonder how her life turned-out; she sounds like an unhappy person.
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Rocky
Read between the lines of her 20 minutes speech.
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WordWolf
Uninteresting in a very specific way, for that matter. There's a common style for ex-twi. It can be done in a canned, artificial way, or in an interested, involved way. The latter is how people teach who actually care about who they're teaching and why. The former is how people in twi or ex-twi teach when they feel they're more important than the people they're supposedly teaching. It's accompanied by "phoning it in" in every way, with no remarkable insights marring the plastic teaching.
In other words, this isn't even a GOOD ex-twi clone.
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Allan
Okay, so I took an alka seltzer to enable me to listen to all of it...TBH I didn't need to even read between the lines...a leopard usually doesn't change it's spots ! "enjoys one on ones", "exhort, encourage"...left out the 'rebuke' part..interestingly still not wanting to get really honest with herself and her God...all smileys and full of advice...until one says "o.k. I gotta go now "...growing up I had a little sister that would have friends over and have fun girly stuff. When her friends wanted to go home my sister would start trying to beat them up !! lol, funny the 'imagery' God gives.
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Twinky
Gimme the sermon I heard in church last Sunday, any time.
I really think that many of these people at R&R started out with a desire to love God, but got sidetracked along the way, fell into the ego tramp, and now they're climbing the greasy pedestal.
Mary likes to hang about and talk to people, especially newbies. Is that because it gives her the opportunity to show off her supposed knowledge?
It'd be nice if one or some of them spoke about the six months or year or more that they had spent volunteering daily (or at least weekly) at a shelter for homeless people, or for battered wives, or helping drug addicts, prostitutes, child laborers, and such like. You know, the ones with no money and a hard attitude to life. The ones who call "do-gooder" hypocrisy for what it is. Some place these teachers get their hands dirty in the sh-t of life. Fab opportunities to see people really turn their lives around; it's a very slow process.
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WordWolf
That's fairly common in twi and in ex-twi communities, though. You might hear criticisms of people who volunteer and help others, but exhortations to help them are not nearly as common. They exist, but not in every group, and not all the time. The rank-and-file may already have more impressive track records on that sort of thing.
When I was in college, I was in a service organization, and logged some 40 hours of community service, etc per semester (sometimes more.) After a few years of me doing that, the ex-twi group at the time discussed, at the leadership level, the idea that it's good to do that sort of thing. Shocking for all the twi-trained people. For me, the mention from a local leader that this sort of thing was good was in the "and the water was actually wet?" category. I agreed, mentioned I had a few YEARS of experience with that sort of thing, and offered to advise them and pass information if he needed any. He was polite, but his face was easy to read. You'd think I was offering to perform a necessary surgery for him in a garage or something. The idea that I might have actually gotten experience and training they lacked and needed, and got it from a secular source, that was either shocking, repugnant, or shockingly repugnant.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, I think your post shows offers good insight into the heart of TWI; it claimed to be a Godly organization, but it wasn't. Years ago, I felt TWi wanted all of my money, and time. When I finally made this break through in my head, I realized I was right; and eventually left.
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Taxidev
I really don't care what Rico's teaching is about. He is not R&R. In fact, I don't really care much about the R&R teachings, either.
Edited by TaxidevMore info
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penguin2
Don't you love all those Reverends on the R&R page? Leave the group that ordained them and keep the title?
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Taxidev
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Right?!?! How absurd.
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Taxidev
Please, enlighten me.
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Rocky
Already did. Were you paying attention?
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Taxidev
I guess not. Would you be more specific? Where are they asking for money?
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Rocky
You have to be ready, willing, and able to read between the lines. Oh, and I'm curious, have they denounced Rico and his business model?
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penworks
Groups run by former TWI leaders seem to hide in plain sight, at least as far as the general public goes. Whenever I give presentations about Undertow, there is usually someone in the audience who asks about what shape TWI is in today. I inform them about the succession of presidents, the sale of properties, the decline of loyalists. BUT I also let them know about spinoff groups that perpetuate Way-style doctrines, teachings, meetings, behaviors, while most of the time NOT mentioning their origins in Wierwielle's outfit.
Signs of that origin would be catch phrases like "the accuracy of the Word," which is something fabricated by VPW, or rather stolen by him from other fundamentalist Christian writers. Most audiences have never heard of Bullinger, etc., so the challenge is to encourage folks who are more than casually interested to acquaint themselves with fundamentalism, not only cults. The ideology of cults varies. The Bible-based cults can seem legit at first, but research on them may tell a different story.
Reactions to this news of TWI spinoffs range between disgust and nervousness. I recommend people ask probing questions about the origin of any group recruiter who approaches them and ask about finances and what checks are in place on the power of the leader, and for the name of the person who ordained him or her, etc.
All the above is just my two cents ... Why do I still care about all this? Like most posters here at GSC, I don't like to see people betrayed like I was.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Excellent post, Penworks! TY!
IMHO, the offshoots and their hypocritical, lying “leaders” are WORSE than dictor paul’s and da forehead’s AND Rosie the riveter’s TWIt personality cult. Why? Because every single one of them has accepted WHOLEHEARTEDLY the entire anti-Christ doctrine, practice and agenda of dictor paul’s Aryan Nazi religious CULT! EVERY SINGLE ONE, for 50 years now!! They are committed, dedicated, and totally reprobate with cauterized consciences. They are Pharisaical fundamentalists, false, and diabolically EVIL ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. Woe to them! Morons!
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Allan
WOW ! Could not capture the words and essence any better than this !!
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Taxidev
So then, they aren't.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Maybe they are not yet, but don't be surprised if they are actually doing that and you just haven't heard about it. They may be keeping it secret and not making it publickly known.
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Allan
I agree, these people will not do this without expecting some kind of financial gain. One cannot seperate them from $$
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Taxidev
Not making it publicly known would be a strange way to try to get money from people. Don't you think?
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WordWolf
Not making it PUBLICKLY known means the public at large (you, me...) don't hear about it. They can still do things and keep from announcing them to the entire world wide web.
I knew some people who- legally- agreed to follow required standards- PUBLICKLY- and PRIVATELY showed no interest whatsoever in following them. Their rule was not to tell the authorities and not to get caught. No, I never joined THEIR organization.
It's the same way JAL no longer "officially"/PUBLICKLY shills for Momentus (or whatever the new, secret names changed to, I forget) , but when communicating PRIVATELY with people, he's been caught trying to get them to sign up. Repeatedly. I mean, vpw never PUBLICKLY announced he was going to drug and rape and molest women. Does that mean he didn't do it?
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Twinky
Interesting. I just found this, recently posted on a FB page set up by some ex-TWI folk. It's Vern Edwards's letter responding to the letter sent by the R&R folk that they sent complaining about the then BoD:
Vern Edwards letter
Dear Household Fellowship Coordinators,
As you are probably aware, the Placement Meetings have been taking place this week (thank you for your prayers!). And you may or may not be aware that there has been another group that is actively working in opposition to the Board of Directors and ministry leadership. This group has been led by Bob & Dottie Moynihan, Phil and Sue Shelton, and Ed and Jacque Horney. As of yesterday at the Placement Meetings, these individuals have been dropped from active Way Corps and are considered “mark and avoid”. This decision was made by the mutual agreement of Directors, the Officers, and the President’s Cabinet for the individuals’ divisive actions. Many efforts have been graciously extended to these individuals over the better part of a year, but to no avail.
Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
In Philippians there is a verse that is very appropriate to this subject.
Philippians 2:3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory….
Gleaning from both Bullinger’s and Thayer’s Lexicons, we find that strife is defined as “canvassing” or “factiousness”. From an English dictionary, canvassing is “to travel around an area asking people for something such as opinions, or votes”. A faction is defined as “a dissenting minority within a larger group.”
This faction is canvassing, persuading disciples to support their cause through fair words and good speeches (Romans 16:8). The individuals above have initiated a Facebook meeting called “Revival and Restoration Livestream Q&A.” Just to make it clear, this is NOT a ministry backed event. It should be very obvious by the very nature of the FB page. It is a mess of confusion, contention, arguing, and division; anything but decent and in order. When one person stands up for the ministry, they are instantly attacked. Today I see that most comments in support of the ministry have been taken down leaving only the comments of those who are agreeing with the Revival and Restoration group. On the FB page, several encourage others to listen to the Livestream event, after all, what harm is there in that? There is plenty of harm. What harm is there in fiery darts? What harm is there in dissenting words? What harm was there in Eve listening to the serpent? Paul confronted those who spoke words designed to divide and discredit, who sowed seeds of discord.
2 Corinthians 12:20: For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults.
Personally, I will not subject myself to any part of this meeting. My efforts will be put to glorifying God, moving His Word, and promoting unity of the spirit. If you have not read chapter 7, of Just the Way it Was, I would strongly encourage you to do so. This stuff is not new, but has historically been whipped up anytime there has been a transfer of leadership in The Way. Dr. Wierwille wrote the following in The New Dynamic Church, chapter 13, “Why Division?”.
“May God deliver us as the Church from being contentious and difficult, from maligning our brethren, from bickering and quarrelsomeness, from dividing the Body of Christ by our lack of enlightenment. There is too much division outside the Church; our solidarity is imperative to give us strength to move forward in spite of the opposition. May the Father in heaven, for the sake of the only begotten Son, bless us with such an abundance that we may cease to be a part of the problem and become part of the answer. May we as members of Christ’s Body become so filled with love that we may be teachable and have our hearts opened to God’s Holy Word. And may we receive of Him and carry the blessings to all we meet, that they may see us and know we are His.”
The greatest thing we can do is to bring spiritual light to the dark world in which we live. Be the Christian in the room. Invite people to fellowship. Teach them what you know.
Acts 26:18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We have a strong ministry with a bright future. If any of you feel you need to talk, please call. My number is 315-638-2382. I am not into arguing or debating, but am keenly focused on spiritual truth and can perhaps shed light on any genuine concerns or questions you may have.
Standing steadfast,
Vern Edwards
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