This doesn't irritate me. But the R&R folks aren't involved in the Oikeos "business". I would call it a ministry if I believed it to be.
So, I stand on all that I have originally described about the R&R group. But, as I noted here in response to your other comment, if they have things going on under the covers, I don't know about that.
Makes sense. Thanks. Btw, I believe your expression, "the Oikeos 'business'" is on the mark.
Makes sense. Thanks. Btw, I believe your expression, "the Oikeos 'business'" is on the mark.
Yep. I would go with saying most churches today are a form of "religious business", and especially so for small, localized groups like The Way Nash, ie anything that calls itself a "ministry" or a fellowship and that then declares itself tax exempt.
The Way was supposedly all about "the church in the home". There's no part of that which requires legal protections or definition. People meeting to do as they believe is correct, within the laws of the land - what's to declare to the government about? "God bless America" indeed.
The Way Nash received "donations" from all over the country, from people meeting in their homes who basically felt they wished to give and support the work of a ministry they were being taught by. Big deal - right? Well, yes, since The Way had declared itself tax exempt it needed to answer to the government for those donations so as not to pay taxes on them as income. So being a tax exempt "church" actually required them to be as tied to governmental controls as if they were just licensed as a business, maybe even more so.
Without being cynical or judgmental, I think it's just obvious and logical to recognize that when a Wafer group splits off from the main mother-ship and forms their own group and gets recognized as a "tax exempt church" the primary reason is so that money can be received to support the church operations and not get taxed.
That's business. Non profit, charitable action can happen without forming a legal entity to do so. Jesus told His followers to give Caesar what he's got coming, and do the same with God. I might actually debate Him on the former, while accepting the latter, but that was His position and in many ways it makes sense. And arguably if Caesar had given a pass for traveling Rabbi's maybe He would have put in for it, being the Messiah and all though, I kind of doubt it. We do know what He said though and that He paid temple taxes. He also accepted financial support and had a close follower manage "the bag" accounts. (Who tragically but interestingly turned out to betray Him and got paid for doing so. )
In short, Jesus actually appeared to steer clear of "Imperial Entanglements" unless they came to Him for help, as did the soldier seeking help for his servant.
Edited by socks Hmmm...yeah. Okay. These are the 'droids you're looking for.
Ah yes - the business of Way splinters. We've seen so many of these start up and fizzle out, I think we should help out by posting up some "franchise guidelines" for a Way splinter.
HOW TO START YOUR Mc-Way Ministry franchise (T) (C) (R)
Common elements:
501c - because you worked hard to take all those people away from the Way with their 15% conditioned giving. You should be rewarded for it, not the government.
Board of Directors - you were subject to their petty displays of power for 30 years, now its your turn. It's just how it's done in the world. Every non profit has one so we do to. Who will be in charge? Why the person who got the revelation from God, right?
Foundational Class - with all the examples of how not to do it from the Way, you've got a better idea. And revelation. Remaking a foundational class is the primary "intellectual property" that you can claim that is different from the splinter down the road started by your Corpse brother. IP is worth tangible money. And is proof you should be president and in control. Which is the ultimate goal. You're not greedy. You're just following God's orders. It's God who wants you in that President's position.
Groupies - there has to be at least one strong set of groupies to start your cult from. You can live by them, and they will provide enough money for a meager subsistence until you can really get your YouTube channel and subscribers to your teachings going and off the ground
YouTube channel - or Vimeo / audio repository - anywhere you can point people to with a minimal amount of effort to get them to listen to your teachings. You see the teachings are like a product, which produces a return over and over, as opposed to service, which only produces one return right now. Good teachings drive revenue.
Website - if things are going to progress beyond the "groupies" stage, there has to be a central place to post teachings, itineraries and events, and to collect money.
Itineraries - the apostle Paul did it. I'm just like him spreading the Word according to that audible revelation. Bands have to go on the road to make money - can't just rely on album sales in a modern world. So do modern apostles. Hit the road, go teach a class, establish fellowships. Then you can just link them back to your website, and they can be thoroughly nourished as a Christian by your YouTube channel. And send in money
Organizational structure - why now that it's been a couple years, we need contacts in every state, and a regional leadership structure, just like the Way Tree because that's all we have learned to do by example and functionally.
There we have it. A business plan. A franchise plan. Plug in your name. Plug in your ego. All set to go. All you really need is your own "snow on the gas pumps" story.
The Mc-Way ministry thing made me think of a McDonald’s in a small town we’d pass through on the way to visit my in-laws; seems like every time I’d get a hankering for a chocolate shake the voice coming out of the order intercom would say “sorry, our shake machine is broke.” What does that have to do with the way and spinoffs - hell I don’t know - maybe I’m just trying to say all these Bozos are frustrating - when you really want something and try using the “principles “ they teach - you come to find out their more-than-abundant-life-machine is broke....actually it never worked in the first place.
Even the Oikeos Christian Network website, in defining its origin, is ambiguous.
What separates "the household of God" from "the Christian family of God?" It is not stated on his website. If its "Oikeos plus R&R"........then why not "Oikeos plus CFF?" Why not include OTHER splinter groups like Panarello, Schoenheit, Lynn, and others?
And, if it's exclusive.......then it's NOT inclusive to Christian work. So, why name it Oikeos Christian Network?
A few things start to emerge looking at all this confusion over the term "household" practically and people trying to figure it out from a cult background. One of the things to consider is that cults damage boundaries. Boundaries involve emotional intelligence and how you interact with other human beings.
So people get stuck not seeing their own blindness.
This group was started by a dozen or so former way corps who brought up a list of grievances to the current BOD of TWI. It reminded me of the 95 theses from Martin Luther, but only about 10 to 15 list items. After trying to have a group meeting with all these folks and the BOD, they were all deemed "mark and avoid" by the BOD, and told flatly they are out. So they started their own loose ministry - it began on facebook, which they still have, and published their web site.
Essentially, they just teach. They are scattered around the US, and do their thing locally, and they have a Sunday night phone call teaching, which they record and post on their web site. Quite a number of the teachings were very good.
Eventually others from the way corps left TWI and attached themselves to this group, and even more were asked to leave TWI, so they also have gravitated to R&R, as they are commonly referred to.
Except...
-Someone mentioned plans to start up some other group over a year before the big meeting.
-Someone registered the domain name "revival and restoration" several months before the big meeting.
They already had plans for a new group before they ever met with the bod. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
When R&R formed, Rico was already doing his own thing in Florida. He did give them some of his teachings for their web site, and I think he has a few posted on their facebook page also, but he already had in mind that he was to be in charge, so he was putting together his new Oikeos structure. As far as I know, no one from R&R base group is involved in Oikeos. But because the R&R base has a relationship with Rico, they join forces for these annual events. And, the first event in Florida took place prior to Rico having his established Oikeos business, so he was just a participant teacher like the others.
Now, it's very possible that under the covers they have something in the works. But until they lift those covers I won't know. I am not privy to their plannings.
Perhaps the mission definition changes depending on who defines it!
For the others, it's setting up the new group, making it look like it's NOT about obedience and tithing, then sneaking that in the back door very slowly.
For Rico, it's about making a name for himself so he can carve a piece of the RnR pie and grab some tithers later in the story.
Someone registered the domain name "revival and restoration" several months before the big meeting.
They already had plans for a new group before they ever met with the bod. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
I had heard this a couple months ago, right here. And I checked whois and found that it was true, the domain was registered prior to that big meeting in Tennessee. But I don't know what their intentions were for this domain, do you?
For the others, it's setting up the new group, making it look like it's NOT about obedience and tithing, then sneaking that in the back door very slowly.
You're speculating. It's over a year now and they have made no indication that they want money from anyone. On the contrary, they have stated specifically that they do NOT want our money, that if we want to give money we should find someone who is truly in need and give to them. That's biblical.
8 minutes ago, WordWolf said:
For Rico, it's about making a name for himself so he can carve a piece of the RnR pie and grab some tithers later in the story.
It is surely obvious that he wants to make a name for himself - he has practically said so himself. But the rest, like your other statement, is speculation. Although, Oikios does have a link to send them money, whereas the R&R web site does not. So, for this one, we'll see.
You're speculating. It's over a year now and they have made no indication that they want money from anyone. On the contrary, they have stated specifically that they do NOT want our money, that if we want to give money we should find someone who is truly in need and give to them. That's biblical.
Speculating? Okay, if that's the game, here's a little more for you to ponder...
Which of any of these people produced, provided, or in any way "manufactured" (for lack of a better word) a service (or product) outside of TWI that could (or would) have resulted in a means of income (or wealth, if you prefer) that any of them are now in a position that they are (evidently) independently wealthy?
Aside from some sort of sizeable inheritance (which, granted, some might have been the beneficiary of some caring and thoughtful parents or relative), how is it that you suppose any of them manage to live in a society (and world) that essentially runs on money? What hidden "saddle making" skills might you suppose that any of them have or utilize? Or, who (or what) is it that you suppose actually funds their present lifestyle (if not the same - or very similar to that which did - while in twi)?
how is it that you suppose any of them manage to live in a society (and world) that essentially runs on money?
Seriously?
I don't know about all of them, but I do know a couple of them personally, and I have found about other of them - I know this will be a shocker - they work. Isn't that amazing?!?!
Why do they have to be independently wealthy? Are you? I'm not, I just work.
I don't know about all of them, but I do know a couple of them personally, and I have found about other of them - I know this will be a shocker - they work. Isn't that amazing?!?!
Why do they have to be independently wealthy? Are you? I'm not, I just work.
We've been through this. It's not speculation. It's decades of experience, pattern recognition and human nature.
If they have no ambition other than working for the next few decades (when they're octogenarians), then they are either independently wealthy (as TLC suggested) or they're trying to gin up a new splinter group.
Now your lack of curiosity seems to have retreated into denialism.
We've been through this. It's not speculation. It's decades of experience, pattern recognition and human nature.
Yes, we have been through this. And it is absolutely speculation. Granted, it is speculation based on your experience with others. But those were others. That is no guarantee that these will do the same. And they haven't even given any signs that they will do the same. Hence, the speculation.
And it isn't even like they just haven't mentioned money. If that was what they did, then this speculation would be a bit less speculative. But they have flat out told people where giving is supposed to be done, based on the bible. And that is to those in need, not to these individuals or the R&R group.
If and when they start asking for money, I will gladly accept your "I told you so", but not until then.
Yes, we have been through this. And it is absolutely speculation. Granted, it is speculation based on your experience with others. But those were others. That is no guarantee that these will do the same. And they haven't even given any signs that they will do the same. Hence, the speculation.
And it isn't even like they just haven't mentioned money. If that was what they did, then this speculation would be a bit less speculative. But they have flat out told people where giving is supposed to be done, based on the bible. And that is to those in need, not to these individuals or the R&R group.
If and when they start asking for money, I will gladly accept your "I told you so", but not until then.
How quaint that whenever anyone challenges YOUR preconceived notions, they are speculating, but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word.
The issue is not whether they eventually start asking for money, but whether or not they decide to build their new splinter group. One possibility is that they could just defer to Rico, who already has a structure to facilitate collection of moo-lah for "obedience to the household of faith."
How quaint that whenever anyone challenges YOUR preconceived notions, they are speculating, but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word.
It's not my preconceived notion that is being challenged, it is yours, by me.
How would you know what my reaction is to their teachings? The only thing I have ever mentioned about them here is some of them were very good. How do you derive from that, "but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word." ?
I'm looking at my bible when they teach, I have learned how to use research materials - and not just the ones TWI pushed at us - and I have no issue at all getting back to them with a disagreement which, as I also have mentioned here, I have done. So how in the world do you make such a blatantly untrue statement as that?!
It's not my preconceived notion that is being challenged, it is yours, by me.
How would you know what my reaction is to their teachings? The only thing I have ever mentioned about them here is some of them were very good. How do you derive from that, "but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word." ?
I'm looking at my bible when they teach, I have learned how to use research materials - and not just the ones TWI pushed at us - and I have no issue at all getting back to them with a disagreement which, as I also have mentioned here, I have done. So how in the world do you make such a blatantly untrue statement as that?!
1) reading YOUR words and 2) it's awfully presumptuous of you to think that your private interpretation -- no matter how "skilled" you might be in biblical research -- is "thus saith the Lord."
Oh, and besides presumptuous, it also comes off as extremely arrogant. Especially when you don't even demonstrate reasonable levels of curiosity about organizational concepts and principles.
Oh, and besides presumptuous, it also comes off as extremely arrogant. Especially when you don't even demonstrate reasonable levels of curiosity about organizational concepts and principles.
The Mc-Way ministry thing made me think of a McDonald’s in a small town we’d pass through on the way to visit my in-laws; seems like every time I’d get a hankering for a chocolate shake the voice coming out of the order intercom would say “sorry, our shake machine is broke.” What does that have to do with the way and spinoffs - hell I don’t know - maybe I’m just trying to say all these Bozos are frustrating - when you really want something and try using the “principles “ they teach - you come to find out their more-than-abundant-life-machine is broke....actually it never worked in the first place.
The machine was broken because you didn't believe enough for a milkshake. (sarc)
Every single spinoff and splinter from twi started off saying they had the best intentions. Many of them started without asking for money, even hostile to the idea-at least openly. All of them EVENTUALLY asked for money.
However, I'm sure that decades of experience with organizations with the same origin, the same history, and the same trajectory doesn't really count, and THIS TIME we see a group that does not want and never will want your money. Furthermore, they will be the one group to be open-door, and have people WELCOME to leave whenever they want, and say in EVERY way that all Christians are equal, etc....
Every single spinoff and splinter from twi started off saying they had the best intentions. Many of them started without asking for money, even hostile to the idea-at least openly. All of them EVENTUALLY asked for money.
However, I'm sure that decades of experience with organizations with the same origin, the same history, and the same trajectory doesn't really count, and THIS TIME we see a group that does not want and never will want your money. Furthermore, they will be the one group to be open-door, and have people WELCOME to leave whenever they want, and say in EVERY way that all Christians are equal, etc....
I just read the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread, lost patience earlier with it. But I thought I'd see if anything had changed. Grief, these groups, the people, are so full of ego, and nothing about genuine humility. "I can teach you this, that - and the other." Don't we have a holy spirit to help us? Don't we have lots of other GENUINE teachers? Those who teach with words (preachers) and those who teach by example, the ones at the coalface getting their hands dirty helping the vulnerableand disadvantaged?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
69
73
83
113
Popular Days
Sep 13
36
Sep 11
29
Sep 12
22
Dec 23
21
Top Posters In This Topic
Rocky 69 posts
chockfull 73 posts
Grace Valerie Claire 83 posts
Taxidev 113 posts
Popular Days
Sep 13 2018
36 posts
Sep 11 2018
29 posts
Sep 12 2018
22 posts
Dec 23 2017
21 posts
Popular Posts
DontWorryBeHappy
Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watchi
Watered Garden
I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Rever
penguin2
I never served at any of the top levels of the Way, but I did graduate from the corpse. I did hold some leadership positions. When I finally left twi, I told God I didn't want to lead again because I
Posted Images
Taxidev
I didn't even know they had that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Makes sense. Thanks. Btw, I believe your expression, "the Oikeos 'business'" is on the mark.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Yep. I would go with saying most churches today are a form of "religious business", and especially so for small, localized groups like The Way Nash, ie anything that calls itself a "ministry" or a fellowship and that then declares itself tax exempt.
The Way was supposedly all about "the church in the home". There's no part of that which requires legal protections or definition. People meeting to do as they believe is correct, within the laws of the land - what's to declare to the government about? "God bless America" indeed.
The Way Nash received "donations" from all over the country, from people meeting in their homes who basically felt they wished to give and support the work of a ministry they were being taught by. Big deal - right? Well, yes, since The Way had declared itself tax exempt it needed to answer to the government for those donations so as not to pay taxes on them as income. So being a tax exempt "church" actually required them to be as tied to governmental controls as if they were just licensed as a business, maybe even more so.
Without being cynical or judgmental, I think it's just obvious and logical to recognize that when a Wafer group splits off from the main mother-ship and forms their own group and gets recognized as a "tax exempt church" the primary reason is so that money can be received to support the church operations and not get taxed.
That's business. Non profit, charitable action can happen without forming a legal entity to do so. Jesus told His followers to give Caesar what he's got coming, and do the same with God. I might actually debate Him on the former, while accepting the latter, but that was His position and in many ways it makes sense. And arguably if Caesar had given a pass for traveling Rabbi's maybe He would have put in for it, being the Messiah and all though, I kind of doubt it. We do know what He said though and that He paid temple taxes. He also accepted financial support and had a close follower manage "the bag" accounts. (Who tragically but interestingly turned out to betray Him and got paid for doing so. )
Edited by socksIn short, Jesus actually appeared to steer clear of "Imperial Entanglements" unless they came to Him for help, as did the soldier seeking help for his servant.
Hmmm...yeah. Okay. These are the 'droids you're looking for.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Ah yes - the business of Way splinters. We've seen so many of these start up and fizzle out, I think we should help out by posting up some "franchise guidelines" for a Way splinter.
HOW TO START YOUR Mc-Way Ministry franchise (T) (C) (R)
Common elements:
There we have it. A business plan. A franchise plan. Plug in your name. Plug in your ego. All set to go. All you really need is your own "snow on the gas pumps" story.
You can do it.
You've got McJesus.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
It's OK to have a title. It's OK to not have a title.
And it's OK to lie about the fact that to you it's not OK to not have a title.
But that's OK too, because it's really not your ego that is causing you to do that, it's audible revelation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Great posts Chockfull and Socks !
The Mc-Way ministry thing made me think of a McDonald’s in a small town we’d pass through on the way to visit my in-laws; seems like every time I’d get a hankering for a chocolate shake the voice coming out of the order intercom would say “sorry, our shake machine is broke.” What does that have to do with the way and spinoffs - hell I don’t know - maybe I’m just trying to say all these Bozos are frustrating - when you really want something and try using the “principles “ they teach - you come to find out their more-than-abundant-life-machine is broke....actually it never worked in the first place.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
A few things start to emerge looking at all this confusion over the term "household" practically and people trying to figure it out from a cult background. One of the things to consider is that cults damage boundaries. Boundaries involve emotional intelligence and how you interact with other human beings.
So people get stuck not seeing their own blindness.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Except...
-Someone mentioned plans to start up some other group over a year before the big meeting.
-Someone registered the domain name "revival and restoration" several months before the big meeting.
They already had plans for a new group before they ever met with the bod. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Perhaps the mission definition changes depending on who defines it!
For the others, it's setting up the new group, making it look like it's NOT about obedience and tithing, then sneaking that in the back door very slowly.
For Rico, it's about making a name for himself so he can carve a piece of the RnR pie and grab some tithers later in the story.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
I had heard this a couple months ago, right here. And I checked whois and found that it was true, the domain was registered prior to that big meeting in Tennessee. But I don't know what their intentions were for this domain, do you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
You're speculating. It's over a year now and they have made no indication that they want money from anyone. On the contrary, they have stated specifically that they do NOT want our money, that if we want to give money we should find someone who is truly in need and give to them. That's biblical.
It is surely obvious that he wants to make a name for himself - he has practically said so himself. But the rest, like your other statement, is speculation. Although, Oikios does have a link to send them money, whereas the R&R web site does not. So, for this one, we'll see.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TLC
Speculating? Okay, if that's the game, here's a little more for you to ponder...
Which of any of these people produced, provided, or in any way "manufactured" (for lack of a better word) a service (or product) outside of TWI that could (or would) have resulted in a means of income (or wealth, if you prefer) that any of them are now in a position that they are (evidently) independently wealthy?
Aside from some sort of sizeable inheritance (which, granted, some might have been the beneficiary of some caring and thoughtful parents or relative), how is it that you suppose any of them manage to live in a society (and world) that essentially runs on money? What hidden "saddle making" skills might you suppose that any of them have or utilize? Or, who (or what) is it that you suppose actually funds their present lifestyle (if not the same - or very similar to that which did - while in twi)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
Seriously?
I don't know about all of them, but I do know a couple of them personally, and I have found about other of them - I know this will be a shocker - they work. Isn't that amazing?!?!
Why do they have to be independently wealthy? Are you? I'm not, I just work.
Edited by Taxidevclarity
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
We've been through this. It's not speculation. It's decades of experience, pattern recognition and human nature.
If they have no ambition other than working for the next few decades (when they're octogenarians), then they are either independently wealthy (as TLC suggested) or they're trying to gin up a new splinter group.
Now your lack of curiosity seems to have retreated into denialism.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
Yes, we have been through this. And it is absolutely speculation. Granted, it is speculation based on your experience with others. But those were others. That is no guarantee that these will do the same. And they haven't even given any signs that they will do the same. Hence, the speculation.
And it isn't even like they just haven't mentioned money. If that was what they did, then this speculation would be a bit less speculative. But they have flat out told people where giving is supposed to be done, based on the bible. And that is to those in need, not to these individuals or the R&R group.
If and when they start asking for money, I will gladly accept your "I told you so", but not until then.
Edited by TaxidevAdd
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
How quaint that whenever anyone challenges YOUR preconceived notions, they are speculating, but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word.
Edited by RockyThe issue is not whether they eventually start asking for money, but whether or not they decide to build their new splinter group. One possibility is that they could just defer to Rico, who already has a structure to facilitate collection of moo-lah for "obedience to the household of faith."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
It's not my preconceived notion that is being challenged, it is yours, by me.
How would you know what my reaction is to their teachings? The only thing I have ever mentioned about them here is some of them were very good. How do you derive from that, "but when your R&R friends make a declaration (apparently) of thus saith the Lord, you take them at their word." ?
I'm looking at my bible when they teach, I have learned how to use research materials - and not just the ones TWI pushed at us - and I have no issue at all getting back to them with a disagreement which, as I also have mentioned here, I have done. So how in the world do you make such a blatantly untrue statement as that?!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
1) reading YOUR words and 2) it's awfully presumptuous of you to think that your private interpretation -- no matter how "skilled" you might be in biblical research -- is "thus saith the Lord."
Oh, and besides presumptuous, it also comes off as extremely arrogant. Especially when you don't even demonstrate reasonable levels of curiosity about organizational concepts and principles.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
The machine was broken because you didn't believe enough for a milkshake. (sarc)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Every single spinoff and splinter from twi started off saying they had the best intentions. Many of them started without asking for money, even hostile to the idea-at least openly. All of them EVENTUALLY asked for money.
However, I'm sure that decades of experience with organizations with the same origin, the same history, and the same trajectory doesn't really count, and THIS TIME we see a group that does not want and never will want your money. Furthermore, they will be the one group to be open-door, and have people WELCOME to leave whenever they want, and say in EVERY way that all Christians are equal, etc....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grace Valerie Claire
WW, and pigs will learn to fly! LMAO!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JayDee
Do any of you know any Christian denominations or organizations that DON’T ask for money? Who DON’T have a donate button or n their websites?
I’m not defending the practice. But why think it’s so unusual for any group that asks?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I just read the last 4 or 5 pages of this thread, lost patience earlier with it. But I thought I'd see if anything had changed. Grief, these groups, the people, are so full of ego, and nothing about genuine humility. "I can teach you this, that - and the other." Don't we have a holy spirit to help us? Don't we have lots of other GENUINE teachers? Those who teach with words (preachers) and those who teach by example, the ones at the coalface getting their hands dirty helping the vulnerableand disadvantaged?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.