Thanks, Grace. I appreciate your concern, and I am being careful. I'm not personally involved with them, I just listen to the teachings on Sundays, just as I listen to teachings from others.
Taxi, thank God for small blessings! Taxi, VPW died in May of 1985; I remember his death quite well. If he was alive today, he would probably be in jail, for all the S--t, he did. I hope he is in the hottest place in Hell that he can be, and I hope he is is miserable.
…I’ve found from my experience with a cult, the more involved you get with the group the more they sink their claws into you; it’s called organizational entanglement.
I think that’s why the mass exodus after the passing of a turd paper came out was comprised mostly of a lot of corps. We were the deeply committed and involved ones who experienced firsthand the “wear and tear” of the cult’s life-sucking machinations…I imagine for a long time prior, there were a variety of reasons to leave building up in the hearts of many – and perhaps the aftermath of the turd paper – which I think was the first truly big challenge to the power structure of TWI - was merely the tipping point in many folks’ minds - finally deciding to actually leave TWI…
…while at the same time you had most of the faithful followers down at the local fellowship level scratching their heads wondering what the hell was going on – “how come all these corps people tripped out?”; corps were like a buffer zone, that insulated the lower levels from a lot of those life-sucking machinations…often softening any “mandates” issued from HQ, being a good sales rep for whatever HQ was “selling”, absorbing the costs (time and resources) of keeping classes and events operational and generally doing this with a good attitude because we thought we were serving God and the one true ministry…yeah, just sucking it up in the daily grind as long as that feel-good-pablum gets doled out to the masses and they keep that money rolling in to HQ.
...so anyway...if you happen to get more involved with them let me know of your experience.
T Bone, another excellent post!! You are so right; in 1986, when the POTP paper came out, I didn't understand most of the paper. However, I do remember he made a lot of accusations, without giving giving any prove of what he spoke about. I throught the paper was a lot of Donkey Dung.
I think it would have been helpful to all of us out there if something had been communicated. The BOD certainly wasn't going to do it, so we were left to our imaginations every time.
Which is why I kept those in my corps assignment area abreast of all developments - any official words from HQ and more importantly of anything I could find out on my own (talking to clergy, other corps and even what I was reevaluating in TWI teachings)
- i did this even after I officially resigned from my post and continued to visit all the fellowships in my area; I imagine a lot of corps that left did something along those lines so it didn’t leave folks in the dark with only the Board of Trustees stupefying communications to the masses.
From what I've learned here about the lot of them, I may just remain at arm's length, and just enjoy my local fellowship, and maybe get involved in some community aid program here in my area. I know I have my own ministry, as do all of us, and I don't need anyone to give me direction on that - I get that from God. And there are more than enough resources that if I have a question about scripture, I'm positive I can get it clarified.
Yes I too have a ministry - and it seems to be ever-evolving...
A few of the objectives of my ministry pertinent to this discussion are:
Expose the insidious nature of TWI’s doctrine and practice
Help those who want to understand the nature of the mental blindness caused by TWI’s indoctrination (see Matthew 6:22 & 23).
Inspire and encourage others to continually develop critical thinking skills
Appreciate the viewpoints and input of others, no matter how different they may be from my own
Continue to develop empathy with others (as one of the ways I can live the 2nd great commandment love thy neighbor as thyself).
Their web site is very simple, so I'm supposing, based on personal experience, that it costs them $120 / yr for that, plus another $12 for the domain name. Between the 12 or so that signed that last letter, I think they can handle that.
As for anything else they do, I don't know of any public discussion. I only know they haven't ask us out in the ether for any money. That's good enough for me.
I do know that when they have an event, they divide the cost of the venue among those attending. I just found out today that a few of them are running classes, and they are free.
That's all I know regarding the money, Rocky.
So they restrict access to the website which contains links to their teachings to those that join them on a FB group?
Why not expose such research revelations that Steve Longley had to the world like being likeminded with Christ? Yes that is a revelation coming out of the Way cult, but not for the vast majority of Christians on the earth who don't actually remove Christ's presence and replace him with "the Word" meaning a scripture commentary by a dictator.
Perhaps those without Way-specific indoctrination might not find them impressive? Or they want to track who watches them?
I mean the revelation or what not that Rosalie closed the research department is really only an outward declaration finally of what was going on all along. The fewer they have in research, the less can call into question Wierwille's shoddy research, and the less control will wander away from those who whitewash Wierwille's image and tend to the millions left post-mortem from his global flim-flam artistry.
Undertow details the pettiness of Wierwille's research team in his heyday. In his decline it got worse. Many egos with many fingers in the pie. Under LCM, it was further demolished - the Okie hated the words GMIR for instance. Dumb down the research, and present it with lots of pictures like the remake of the PLAF class - mix up the order add in some drama, you know. WAP 1. Research department then consisted of notes on toilet paper passed between LCM and Wayne Clapp. Wayne made it farther in school.
So Wayne was excommunicated by Rosie for being an absentminded babysitter, and went off with other maltreated to form CFFM. After Corpse slaves were forced to teach WAP 1a, they remade WAP 2 with Steve Longley, John Rupp, and David Chavoustie. David Chavoustie at this time was the new research department. Part time. Since then it closed.
So now the Way is an Ex-Research, Teaching, and Limited Fellowship ministry, depending on your financial debt status.
You are correct, I'm not really interested in digging deeper into this group. I'm just watching them, and listening to what they teach. As for beneath the surface, I really don't care what's beneath the surface. When it rises to the surface, then I'll care. Until then, I'll just watch and listen.
You have already explained why you would think I'm too close to them to be objective? Please point me to that, because I don't remember anything like that in anything you've posted.
No further need to discuss it, since you don't seem to care whether or not what people here have clearly shown to be the case with the R&R group. However, you have been uniquely situated to explore the issue.
That's how TWI handled it. But R&R doesn't actually have "leaders". And "mark and avoid" isn't a title, it's something an individual does with regard to another individual that is causing division on the Word. I think they did a teaching on that, or maybe it was in my local fellowship - I lose track.
Since you lack curiosity about what is really going on with R&R, why should anyone take anything you say about them seriously?
So they restrict access to the website which contains links to their teachings to those that join them on a FB group?
Why not expose such research revelations that Steve Longley had to the world like being likeminded with Christ?
I suggested opening it up, like other web sites. So far, it's a no go.
BTW: there was a conference in Florida over the Labor Day weekend. In case you're interested in hearing what they were teaching, here is a free link to all of it. Just click the little speaker icon and it will open a new window with the whole weekend of recordings.
Since you lack curiosity about what is really going on with R&R, why should anyone take anything you say about them seriously?
I find that to be a pretty snotty statement. But if that's how you feel about it, feel free to not read what I share about them. Many here have expressed interest in what I do know about them.
I find that to be a pretty snotty statement. But if that's how you feel about it, feel free to not read what I share about them. Many here have expressed interest in what I do know about them.
Oh, I'll read it. And let you know what I think about it.
Bottom line is that your lack of curiosity hinders your ability to find out what's really going on. That saddens me.
I suggested opening it up, like other web sites. So far, it's a no go.
BTW: there was a conference in Florida over the Labor Day weekend. In case you're interested in hearing what they were teaching, here is a free link to all of it. Just click the little speaker icon and it will open a new window with the whole weekend of recordings.
So, is the R&R group the actual Oikeos Christian Network?
If so, its bylaws (of the nonprofit corporation) provide answers to key questions about which you have specifically expressed no interest in learning.
It is a 501 (c) 3 corporation. That means that they ARE interested in your money, whether they have said so or not so far.
The preamble/corporate governance specifies three teams, a leadership team, an oversight team and a finance team.
"Networking is for support and shared benefit aided by website, periodic meetings, courses, ministering visits, or any other activity deemed appropriate by the three teams." That's the last sentence of the preamble. Those activities cost money. That money will have to come from someplace.
That you seem to have had no clue about the purpose of the organization, reflects a dramatic level of naivete. I'll refrain from guessing about whether or not it is accompanied by disingenuous intent.
"Section. 3 Powers. The Corporation shall have the following powers:
"To receive and maintain a fund or funds and personal property, and to use and apply the whole or any part of the income therefrom and the principal thereof for the purposes set forth in Article IV, Section 1, above."
So, Taxi, it didn't take me much time at all to discover things that really anyone might want to know about the group, and what people contemplating involvement or association with them SHOULD probably want to know.
"Section 5. Compensation. The Oversight Team with input from the Finance Team shall determine by majority vote when to begin paying salaries and the amount of the salaries for the three Officers. The Officers may begin to be salaried one at a time or all at once depending on the Corporation’s financial resources. All voting members of the Team shall serve without compensation except that they shall be allowed reasonable advancement or reimbursement of expenses incurred in the performance of their duties."
"Section 2. Duties. The Finance Team shall have custody of corporate funds. They shall work with the Secretary/Treasurer to keep or require to be kept full and accurate accounts of receipts and disbursements and shall deposit or require to be deposited all corporate monies and other valuable effects in the name and to the credit of the Corporation in the depository or depositories of the Corporation and shall render an account of the transactions and of the financial condition of the Corporation to the Leadership Team upon request. The Leadership Team shall submit a proposed budget to the Finance Team semi-annually for review. The Finance Team shall review the budget to ensure the proposed expenditures promote the mission of the Corporation and approve the budget or provide revisions to the Leadership Team. If the Leadership Team in its discretion determines that monies are needed for a specific purpose outside of the budget or in addition to the semi-annual budget, the Leadership Team shall present the purpose of the monies to the Finance Team. The Finance Team shall have full discretion on the approval or disapproval of those funds."
"Section 3. Reports. Each year after the annual meeting the Leadership Team shall make the Corporation’s Balance Sheet and Revenue and Expense Statement open for public review. If audited financial reports are available, then the audited balance sheet and revenue and expense statement will be used."
The expression, "if audited financial reports are available," unless superceded elsewhere in the bylaws, implies that they don't expect to have audited financial reports. That very simply makes financial mischief all but certain.
"Section 8. Gifts. The Leadership Team may accept on behalf of the Corporation any contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the general purpose or for any special Purpose of the Corporation."
The rest of the article on fiscal management seems sound and feasible.
Article XIV. Giving
"Section 1. Standard. II Corinthians 9:7: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
"This scripture is the basis of the Corporation’s teaching on giving. Network fellowships will not collect participants’ giving to be sent directly to the Corporation. Network fellowships can instruct participants as to how to give directly to the Corporation."
The end of the bylaws says that they were adopted on 8 August 2018.
So, Taxi, do you see how easy that was? Just read, copy and paste (I only pasted some parts thereof).
So, is the R&R group the actual Oikeos Christian Network?
No, Oikeos is Rico Magnelli.
22 minutes ago, Rocky said:
That you seem to have had no clue about the purpose of the organization, reflects a dramatic level of naivete. I'll refrain from guessing about whether or not it is accompanied by disingenuous intent.
That I actually have no clue about Oikeos is due to the fact that I just found out about it. So you can keep all your insulting comments about my intentions, or lack thereof, in your pocket and sit on them.
And you can also stop playing analyst with me - you don't know me, and you don't know my intentions about anything. Just because something is important to you doesn't mean AT ALL that it should be important to me.
I suggested opening it up, like other web sites. So far, it's a no go.
BTW: there was a conference in Florida over the Labor Day weekend. In case you're interested in hearing what they were teaching, here is a free link to all of it. Just click the little speaker icon and it will open a new window with the whole weekend of recordings.
Looking at it now. Actually this looks like where the R and R group is going. When you look at the media links this is basically looking like Rico has teamed up with the group on video and they have a new ministry complete with a BOD, officers, and salaries.
Looking at their doctrine they basically changed one small thing about the household of God consisting of all Christians yet they are functioning in the exact same fashion the Way does except with elections.
They accept donations and pay salaries.
This is absolutely everything we have said about this group and more.
That I actually have no clue about Oikeos is due to the fact that I just found out about it. (SNIP)
I wouldn’t trust Rico…his specialty was in covering up the abuse by TWI leadership…quoting from an old article on empirenet “TWI public relations head and associate Corps coordinator Rico Magnelli held a news conference in which TWI dismissed the lawsuit as false and without basis.” This is in reference to the Allens’ case – “Lawsuit Charges TWI Leadership With Fraud, Sexual Abuse” ...
…of course that’s old news…but it appears another old can of worms has just been inadvertently reopened…
Edited by T-Bone some problems are due to our people picker being busted
When you look at the media links this is basically looking like Rico has teamed up with the group on video and they have a new ministry complete with a BOD, officers, and salaries.
Not really. Rico participates in things with R&R, but Oikeos is his own ballgame. This is fairly new also, from what I understand. He had done a few teachings with R&R, but I haven't heard from him in at least 6 months.
So, Rico might be following TWI structure, but he's doing that on his own.
So, is the R&R group the actual Oikeos Christian Network?
If so, its bylaws (of the nonprofit corporation) provide answers to key questions about which you have specifically expressed no interest in learning.
It is a 501 (c) 3 corporation. That means that they ARE interested in your money, whether they have said so or not so far.
The preamble/corporate governance specifies three teams, a leadership team, an oversight team and a finance team.
"Networking is for support and shared benefit aided by website, periodic meetings, courses, ministering visits, or any other activity deemed appropriate by the three teams." That's the last sentence of the preamble. Those activities cost money. That money will have to come from someplace.
That you seem to have had no clue about the purpose of the organization, reflects a dramatic level of naivete. I'll refrain from guessing about whether or not it is accompanied by disingenuous intent.
"Section. 3 Powers. The Corporation shall have the following powers:
"To receive and maintain a fund or funds and personal property, and to use and apply the whole or any part of the income therefrom and the principal thereof for the purposes set forth in Article IV, Section 1, above."
So, Taxi, it didn't take me much time at all to discover things that really anyone might want to know about the group, and what people contemplating involvement or association with them SHOULD probably want to know.
"Section 5. Compensation. The Oversight Team with input from the Finance Team shall determine by majority vote when to begin paying salaries and the amount of the salaries for the three Officers. The Officers may begin to be salaried one at a time or all at once depending on the Corporation’s financial resources. All voting members of the Team shall serve without compensation except that they shall be allowed reasonable advancement or reimbursement of expenses incurred in the performance of their duties."
"Section 2. Duties. The Finance Team shall have custody of corporate funds. They shall work with the Secretary/Treasurer to keep or require to be kept full and accurate accounts of receipts and disbursements and shall deposit or require to be deposited all corporate monies and other valuable effects in the name and to the credit of the Corporation in the depository or depositories of the Corporation and shall render an account of the transactions and of the financial condition of the Corporation to the Leadership Team upon request. The Leadership Team shall submit a proposed budget to the Finance Team semi-annually for review. The Finance Team shall review the budget to ensure the proposed expenditures promote the mission of the Corporation and approve the budget or provide revisions to the Leadership Team. If the Leadership Team in its discretion determines that monies are needed for a specific purpose outside of the budget or in addition to the semi-annual budget, the Leadership Team shall present the purpose of the monies to the Finance Team. The Finance Team shall have full discretion on the approval or disapproval of those funds."
"Section 3. Reports. Each year after the annual meeting the Leadership Team shall make the Corporation’s Balance Sheet and Revenue and Expense Statement open for public review. If audited financial reports are available, then the audited balance sheet and revenue and expense statement will be used."
The expression, "if audited financial reports are available," unless superceded elsewhere in the bylaws, implies that they don't expect to have audited financial reports. That very simply makes financial mischief all but certain.
"Section 8. Gifts. The Leadership Team may accept on behalf of the Corporation any contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the general purpose or for any special Purpose of the Corporation."
The rest of the article on fiscal management seems sound and feasible.
Article XIV. Giving
"Section 1. Standard. II Corinthians 9:7: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
"This scripture is the basis of the Corporation’s teaching on giving. Network fellowships will not collect participants’ giving to be sent directly to the Corporation. Network fellowships can instruct participants as to how to give directly to the Corporation."
The end of the bylaws says that they were adopted on 8 August 2018.
So, Taxi, do you see how easy that was? Just read, copy and paste (I only pasted some parts thereof).
Rocky, simple to you, but not to me! But thanks for the information; I didn't know all this.
I don't know that Rico was actually "part of" the R&R group. I get the impression that, while he did participate with them, he was always running on his own track since being ousted from TWI. He made it very clear early on that he was supposed to be in charge.
Not really. Rico participates in things with R&R, but Oikeos is his own ballgame. This is fairly new also, from what I understand. He had done a few teachings with R&R, but I haven't heard from him in at least 6 months.
So, Rico might be following TWI structure, but he's doing that on his own.
So Rico has developed 2 classes. His 2018 and 2019 calendar show him traveling around the countryside teaching these 2 classes. The places he is going to teach these classes at least to me look like they are the physical locations where the R & R "board of directors" live.
He has a huge ego that will not permit sharing the spotlight with others. This is most directly evidenced by his actions leaving the Way. He got revelation from God according to his story to go in and confront Rosalie and tell her that she was to step down and that he Rico was to be President, according to God. According to Rosalie, he was a security risk by that statement who she had removed from the premises and kicked him out of the Way.
The R&R "BOD" shows not much initiative. They pass around a weekly teaching calendar, control only who teaches, are not driving towards a theme. Rico shows more leadership. He actually developed content that is different than the Way. He had an annual conference on "Hope". He has his own subgroup of leaders there it looks like, other people I know with less prominent names than the R&R "BOD".
But here is the rub. This is all for filthy lucre. How can I say that? Look at the ego, the lust for power. Rico couldn't stomach being a "yes ma'am" for decades he finally lost it and blew up. Now post Way what is he doing? Integrating with the rest of the body of Christ, or magnifying his ego to produce his own intellectual property, start up a 501c organization, put together bylaws, institute a board of directors of wihch he will be President?
It is not enough to say that the household of God teaching by the Way is anti-Christ. Why? Because you have to actually live it too. That is where the power lies. If you say the household of God includes all Christians, but your manner of living and leadership says by your fruits that it does not, then you are at fault. Even more extreme is the lust to be at the top position answering only to God. Just like Rosalie; Just like Craig. Just like Victor Paul Wierwille. Your mentors.
This is truly what I think the scripture means in I Timothy 1:19 when it speaks of:
holding faith and a good conscience, which some, having cast away, have caused a shipwreck concerning the faith,
That is from the Berean Literal Bible translation.
I take both words faith there to mean the "family faith" or a figure of speech metonymy representing the collective body of Christ on earth today.
The actions of these groups fulfill these scriptures. Christians, who are according to the extended figure, traveling across the high seas of life in a large boat. Together. In the same boat. The actions of some who abandon concerns for the entire body of Christ, and the greater good of the ship, cast off in a lifeboat gathering whoever they can touch close to them. They abandon their good conscience, cast it away along with their concerns for the greater good of the body. They cause themselves and those around them a shipwreck. Where they end up after the shipwreck is as castaways. On an island. With a bandleader.
Now to this point I have been serious. But fair warning. That is going to change.
I'll entitle the following "observations from the peanut gallery" and it will include humor. Why? Because life is better with humor LOL.
But Skipper, it was only supposed to be a 3 hour tour. Shut up Gilligan
Can we audition for Jeff Probst "Survivor" series on television after this with our built skillsets?
How many episodes have I watched of Gilligan's Island involving failed attempts to get off the island once you are on? Hmmmm
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watchi
Watered Garden
I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Rever
penguin2
I never served at any of the top levels of the Way, but I did graduate from the corpse. I did hold some leadership positions. When I finally left twi, I told God I didn't want to lead again because I
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, thank God for small blessings! Taxi, VPW died in May of 1985; I remember his death quite well. If he was alive today, he would probably be in jail, for all the S--t, he did. I hope he is in the hottest place in Hell that he can be, and I hope he is is miserable.
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Grace Valerie Claire
T Bone, another excellent post!! You are so right; in 1986, when the POTP paper came out, I didn't understand most of the paper. However, I do remember he made a lot of accusations, without giving giving any prove of what he spoke about. I throught the paper was a lot of Donkey Dung.
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T-Bone
Which is why I kept those in my corps assignment area abreast of all developments - any official words from HQ and more importantly of anything I could find out on my own (talking to clergy, other corps and even what I was reevaluating in TWI teachings)
- i did this even after I officially resigned from my post and continued to visit all the fellowships in my area; I imagine a lot of corps that left did something along those lines so it didn’t leave folks in the dark with only the Board of Trustees stupefying communications to the masses.
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T-Bone
Yes I too have a ministry - and it seems to be ever-evolving...
A few of the objectives of my ministry pertinent to this discussion are:
Expose the insidious nature of TWI’s doctrine and practice
Help those who want to understand the nature of the mental blindness caused by TWI’s indoctrination (see Matthew 6:22 & 23).
Inspire and encourage others to continually develop critical thinking skills
Appreciate the viewpoints and input of others, no matter how different they may be from my own
Continue to develop empathy with others (as one of the ways I can live the 2nd great commandment love thy neighbor as thyself).
Edited by T-BoneClarity
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chockfull
So they restrict access to the website which contains links to their teachings to those that join them on a FB group?
Why not expose such research revelations that Steve Longley had to the world like being likeminded with Christ? Yes that is a revelation coming out of the Way cult, but not for the vast majority of Christians on the earth who don't actually remove Christ's presence and replace him with "the Word" meaning a scripture commentary by a dictator.
Perhaps those without Way-specific indoctrination might not find them impressive? Or they want to track who watches them?
I mean the revelation or what not that Rosalie closed the research department is really only an outward declaration finally of what was going on all along. The fewer they have in research, the less can call into question Wierwille's shoddy research, and the less control will wander away from those who whitewash Wierwille's image and tend to the millions left post-mortem from his global flim-flam artistry.
Undertow details the pettiness of Wierwille's research team in his heyday. In his decline it got worse. Many egos with many fingers in the pie. Under LCM, it was further demolished - the Okie hated the words GMIR for instance. Dumb down the research, and present it with lots of pictures like the remake of the PLAF class - mix up the order add in some drama, you know. WAP 1. Research department then consisted of notes on toilet paper passed between LCM and Wayne Clapp. Wayne made it farther in school.
So Wayne was excommunicated by Rosie for being an absentminded babysitter, and went off with other maltreated to form CFFM. After Corpse slaves were forced to teach WAP 1a, they remade WAP 2 with Steve Longley, John Rupp, and David Chavoustie. David Chavoustie at this time was the new research department. Part time. Since then it closed.
So now the Way is an Ex-Research, Teaching, and Limited Fellowship ministry, depending on your financial debt status.
Born Again To Serve, part 2. LOL.
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Rocky
No further need to discuss it, since you don't seem to care whether or not what people here have clearly shown to be the case with the R&R group. However, you have been uniquely situated to explore the issue.
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Rocky
Since you lack curiosity about what is really going on with R&R, why should anyone take anything you say about them seriously?
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Taxidev
I suggested opening it up, like other web sites. So far, it's a no go.
BTW: there was a conference in Florida over the Labor Day weekend. In case you're interested in hearing what they were teaching, here is a free link to all of it. Just click the little speaker icon and it will open a new window with the whole weekend of recordings.
https://oikeos.org/sermon/opening-of-the-hope-conference-r-magnelli/
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Taxidev
I find that to be a pretty snotty statement. But if that's how you feel about it, feel free to not read what I share about them. Many here have expressed interest in what I do know about them.
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Rocky
Oh, I'll read it. And let you know what I think about it.
Bottom line is that your lack of curiosity hinders your ability to find out what's really going on. That saddens me.
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Rocky
So, is the R&R group the actual Oikeos Christian Network?
If so, its bylaws (of the nonprofit corporation) provide answers to key questions about which you have specifically expressed no interest in learning.
It is a 501 (c) 3 corporation. That means that they ARE interested in your money, whether they have said so or not so far.
The preamble/corporate governance specifies three teams, a leadership team, an oversight team and a finance team.
"Networking is for support and shared benefit aided by website, periodic meetings, courses, ministering visits, or any other activity deemed appropriate by the three teams." That's the last sentence of the preamble. Those activities cost money. That money will have to come from someplace.
That you seem to have had no clue about the purpose of the organization, reflects a dramatic level of naivete. I'll refrain from guessing about whether or not it is accompanied by disingenuous intent.
"Section. 3 Powers. The Corporation shall have the following powers:
"To receive and maintain a fund or funds and personal property, and to use and apply the whole or any part of the income therefrom and the principal thereof for the purposes set forth in Article IV, Section 1, above."
So, Taxi, it didn't take me much time at all to discover things that really anyone might want to know about the group, and what people contemplating involvement or association with them SHOULD probably want to know.
"Section 5. Compensation. The Oversight Team with input from the Finance Team shall determine by majority vote when to begin paying salaries and the amount of the salaries for the three Officers. The Officers may begin to be salaried one at a time or all at once depending on the Corporation’s financial resources. All voting members of the Team shall serve without compensation except that they shall be allowed reasonable advancement or reimbursement of expenses incurred in the performance of their duties."
"Section 2. Duties. The Finance Team shall have custody of corporate funds. They shall work with the Secretary/Treasurer to keep or require to be kept full and accurate accounts of receipts and disbursements and shall deposit or require to be deposited all corporate monies and other valuable effects in the name and to the credit of the Corporation in the depository or depositories of the Corporation and shall render an account of the transactions and of the financial condition of the Corporation to the Leadership Team upon request. The Leadership Team shall submit a proposed budget to the Finance Team semi-annually for review. The Finance Team shall review the budget to ensure the proposed expenditures promote the mission of the Corporation and approve the budget or provide revisions to the Leadership Team. If the Leadership Team in its discretion determines that monies are needed for a specific purpose outside of the budget or in addition to the semi-annual budget, the Leadership Team shall present the purpose of the monies to the Finance Team. The Finance Team shall have full discretion on the approval or disapproval of those funds."
"Section 3. Reports. Each year after the annual meeting the Leadership Team shall make the Corporation’s Balance Sheet and Revenue and Expense Statement open for public review. If audited financial reports are available, then the audited balance sheet and revenue and expense statement will be used."
The expression, "if audited financial reports are available," unless superceded elsewhere in the bylaws, implies that they don't expect to have audited financial reports. That very simply makes financial mischief all but certain.
"Section 8. Gifts. The Leadership Team may accept on behalf of the Corporation any contribution, gift, bequest, or devise for the general purpose or for any special Purpose of the Corporation."
The rest of the article on fiscal management seems sound and feasible.
Article XIV. Giving
"Section 1. Standard. II Corinthians 9:7: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
"This scripture is the basis of the Corporation’s teaching on giving. Network fellowships will not collect participants’ giving to be sent directly to the Corporation. Network fellowships can instruct participants as to how to give directly to the Corporation."
The end of the bylaws says that they were adopted on 8 August 2018.
So, Taxi, do you see how easy that was? Just read, copy and paste (I only pasted some parts thereof).
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Rocky
OIKEOS' courses
Haven't seen anything on their website yet about the cost to attend the courses.
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Taxidev
No, Oikeos is Rico Magnelli.
That I actually have no clue about Oikeos is due to the fact that I just found out about it. So you can keep all your insulting comments about my intentions, or lack thereof, in your pocket and sit on them.
And you can also stop playing analyst with me - you don't know me, and you don't know my intentions about anything. Just because something is important to you doesn't mean AT ALL that it should be important to me.
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Taxidev
Well, maybe you haven't dug deep enough. Is that because you don't care enough to look deeper? Surely that must mean something...
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chockfull
Looking at it now. Actually this looks like where the R and R group is going. When you look at the media links this is basically looking like Rico has teamed up with the group on video and they have a new ministry complete with a BOD, officers, and salaries.
Looking at their doctrine they basically changed one small thing about the household of God consisting of all Christians yet they are functioning in the exact same fashion the Way does except with elections.
They accept donations and pay salaries.
This is absolutely everything we have said about this group and more.
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T-Bone
I wouldn’t trust Rico…his specialty was in covering up the abuse by TWI leadership…quoting from an old article on empirenet “TWI public relations head and associate Corps coordinator Rico Magnelli held a news conference in which TWI dismissed the lawsuit as false and without basis.” This is in reference to the Allens’ case – “Lawsuit Charges TWI Leadership With Fraud, Sexual Abuse” ...
…of course that’s old news…but it appears another old can of worms has just been inadvertently reopened…
Edited by T-Bonesome problems are due to our people picker being busted
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, why would I pay for a Bilical Class, when churches offer them for free?
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Taxidev
Not really. Rico participates in things with R&R, but Oikeos is his own ballgame. This is fairly new also, from what I understand. He had done a few teachings with R&R, but I haven't heard from him in at least 6 months.
So, Rico might be following TWI structure, but he's doing that on his own.
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Taxidev
I agree. He definitely wants to be in charge. I believe that's why he's moved away from R&R and started his own thing.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, simple to you, but not to me! But thanks for the information; I didn't know all this.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, there is a splinter group from R&R already? I imagine there will be more splinter groups from it, in the near future.
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Taxidev
I don't know that Rico was actually "part of" the R&R group. I get the impression that, while he did participate with them, he was always running on his own track since being ousted from TWI. He made it very clear early on that he was supposed to be in charge.
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chockfull
So Rico has developed 2 classes. His 2018 and 2019 calendar show him traveling around the countryside teaching these 2 classes. The places he is going to teach these classes at least to me look like they are the physical locations where the R & R "board of directors" live.
He has a huge ego that will not permit sharing the spotlight with others. This is most directly evidenced by his actions leaving the Way. He got revelation from God according to his story to go in and confront Rosalie and tell her that she was to step down and that he Rico was to be President, according to God. According to Rosalie, he was a security risk by that statement who she had removed from the premises and kicked him out of the Way.
The R&R "BOD" shows not much initiative. They pass around a weekly teaching calendar, control only who teaches, are not driving towards a theme. Rico shows more leadership. He actually developed content that is different than the Way. He had an annual conference on "Hope". He has his own subgroup of leaders there it looks like, other people I know with less prominent names than the R&R "BOD".
But here is the rub. This is all for filthy lucre. How can I say that? Look at the ego, the lust for power. Rico couldn't stomach being a "yes ma'am" for decades he finally lost it and blew up. Now post Way what is he doing? Integrating with the rest of the body of Christ, or magnifying his ego to produce his own intellectual property, start up a 501c organization, put together bylaws, institute a board of directors of wihch he will be President?
It is not enough to say that the household of God teaching by the Way is anti-Christ. Why? Because you have to actually live it too. That is where the power lies. If you say the household of God includes all Christians, but your manner of living and leadership says by your fruits that it does not, then you are at fault. Even more extreme is the lust to be at the top position answering only to God. Just like Rosalie; Just like Craig. Just like Victor Paul Wierwille. Your mentors.
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chockfull
This is truly what I think the scripture means in I Timothy 1:19 when it speaks of:
holding faith and a good conscience, which some, having cast away, have caused a shipwreck concerning the faith,
That is from the Berean Literal Bible translation.
I take both words faith there to mean the "family faith" or a figure of speech metonymy representing the collective body of Christ on earth today.
The actions of these groups fulfill these scriptures. Christians, who are according to the extended figure, traveling across the high seas of life in a large boat. Together. In the same boat. The actions of some who abandon concerns for the entire body of Christ, and the greater good of the ship, cast off in a lifeboat gathering whoever they can touch close to them. They abandon their good conscience, cast it away along with their concerns for the greater good of the body. They cause themselves and those around them a shipwreck. Where they end up after the shipwreck is as castaways. On an island. With a bandleader.
Now to this point I have been serious. But fair warning. That is going to change.
I'll entitle the following "observations from the peanut gallery" and it will include humor. Why? Because life is better with humor LOL.
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