Jackie H@rney "We don't want to burn any bridges. As far as... There's been people that have been cranky with us... But we love you. And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here. We are not going anywhere. We are not going to stop ministering...
"And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise).
No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.
"Moving the Word" simply means selling the cult's products and services.
With sleight of hand, wierwille instituted buzzwords, clichés and phrases that fueled the engine of the cult machinery. The splinter groups will NEVER get it right, because they start with the premise that wierwille's "foundation" was solid........and therefore, keep the foundation that wierwille devised. Yet, it was built on cult-sand........and will never stand in the presence of God.
Imo, the whole cult experience was skewed and twisted. When you read the gospels and how Jesus loved and comforted, you see The Great Shepherd of the sheep. He cared for them, and their burdens and wounds....and fought off the wolves. Others are hirelings.....only looking out for themselves and self-opportunities. Could someone show me where, in the gospels, Jesus instructed us to go "move the word?" Sure, preach the word unto all the nations.......but "move the word?" And, we all know the implication from wierwille's cult was..........to run pfal classes.
And, it's going to be very interesting to see how these EX-corps coordinators proceed forward. They were the drill sergeants of the way corps program. If corps were not obedient, these leaders who go ballistic yelling in a nanosecond. With these three corps coordinator couples in this offshoot......it's like having 6 John Lynns in one room!
I'm interested to see their progress. I think Jesus summed it up pretty well in his parable about broken wineskins.
If you start with a plagiarized product amassed by a drunken narcissist with a swinger club, then put it into broken wineskins, what do you think you are going to have left after?
If you start with a plagiarized product amassed by a drunken narcissist with a swinger club, then put it into broken wineskins, what do you think you are going to have left after?
I think Jesus summed it up pretty well in his parable about broken wineskins.
This could very well be true about them. But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?
I am also interested to see their progress, and I will. Consider me naive, I understand, but I am willing to give them a chance. Naive, maybe, but I'm not a fool - I have none of them on a pedestal, especially after all that DWBH shared about his personal experiences with them, for which I am incredibly grateful. He understandably doesn't trust them one bit, and I believe his assessment of them is correct, but I also believe they have the ability to turn around completely.
It's been about a year already that I have been watching them. Based on all the crap they have lived, I am willing to give them more time.
This could very well be true about them. But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?
I am also interested to see their progress, and I will. Consider me naive, I understand, but I am willing to give them a chance. Naive, maybe, but I'm not a fool - I have none of them on a pedestal, especially after all that DWBH shared about his personal experiences with them, for which I am incredibly grateful. He understandably doesn't trust them one bit, and I believe his assessment of them is correct, but I also believe they have the ability to turn around completely.
It's been about a year already that I have been watching them. Based on all the crap they have lived, I am willing to give them more time.
Yeah, a year already................how much time is enough time?
Don't the scriptures give us indications of 40 days [trial and testing]?.......or 3 months after the Road to Damascus [for Paul]?
Sorry, but.......one year is plenty of time........AFTER WHICH, sources say they'd been contemplating leaving the twit-cult for 4 years. Sheesh. I think the whole thing smells to high heaven and the Lord is having NONE OF IT.
Yeah, a year already................how much time is enough time?
Don't the scriptures give us indications of 40 days [trial and testing]?.......or 3 months after the Road to Damascus [for Paul]?
Sorry, but.......one year is plenty of time........AFTER WHICH, sources say they'd been contemplating leaving the twit-cult for 4 years. Sheesh. I think the whole thing smells to high heaven and the Lord is having NONE OF IT.
Sky, personally I would not give them five minutes of my time. I wonder when they will turn on each other, and break-up.
Imo, the whole cult experience was skewed and twisted. When you read the gospels and how Jesus loved and comforted, you see The Great Shepherd of the sheep. He cared for them, and their burdens and wounds....and fought off the wolves.
Loved. Comforted. Cared for. Fought off.
Not quite what we received: "tough love" - discomfort - lack of care - and infighting.
Others are hirelings.....only looking out for themselves and self-opportunities.
I am not sure that they know what it is, to love and care for the "flock" in a sacrificial manner.
This could very well be true about them. But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?
I am also interested to see their progress, and I will. Consider me naive, I understand, but I am willing to give them a chance. Naive, maybe, but I'm not a fool - I have none of them on a pedestal, especially after all that DWBH shared about his personal experiences with them, for which I am incredibly grateful. He understandably doesn't trust them one bit, and I believe his assessment of them is correct, but I also believe they have the ability to turn around completely.
It's been about a year already that I have been watching them. Based on all the crap they have lived, I am willing to give them more time.
"Having them on a pedestal" isn't necessarily the only criterion for foolishness in this scenario.
"Having them on a pedestal" isn't necessarily the only criterion for foolishness in this scenario.
Agreed. But I'm still enjoying the teachings. And if that's all I ever get from them, then that's no different than many other sources I have found over the years.
Really? You're so generous. How long did it take many people to recover from what VPW or LCM did to them? Could they have needed more than a year?
Interesting questions you ask... but they might not be related to the issue at hand. You're on a trajectory that seems incongruous with recovering from TWI.
Really? You're so generous. How long did it take many people to recover from what VPW or LCM did to them? Could they have needed more than a year?
Totally incongruous, the one with the other.
Those who are recovering from what vpw/lcm did
Those who are self-appointingthemselves as leaders over another splinter group
Admittedly, you claim that there are people recovering from what vpw or lcm did to them. Don't Moneyhands, Forts, Horneys, Sheldons, and others fall into that category? Moneyhands has been a part of the twit-cult since 1969......and the Forts, since like 1972. Wouldn't they need to have some "recover time" to figure things out? Instead, they are jumping head-long into the water and "teaching the word to others" ........albeit, skewed doctrine.
Apples and oranges, Taxidev. One is not the same as the other.
Even though I held many leadership positions [State, Country Coordinator and clergy]........I haven't started any splinter group. LOL. These guys are opportunists and I have been generous in my assessment. There is plenty more that I could say about them.
You obviously have "a dog in this fight"........and come to their defense time and again. You claim to have this absolute integrity for the Word, yet you fail to see the wolves in sheep's clothing, the deceivers, and the prideful. You might want to read those scriptures that tell us to eschew every appearance of evil. These guys were the campus leaders when wierwille/martindale parked their motor coaches out back [or used cabin 12 in Camp Gunnison] and had girls escorted to them late at night. Yet, they still give adulation to wierwille !!! And now, they start their own splinter group............the blind leading the blind and falling in the ditch.
Yes, that's true. Several of them have made that clear. But I know quite a few people who have never been in any leadership position at all in TWI that feel the same way.
While I had no insight into any of those things that took place in the past, I did find early on some flaws in what VPW propounded, actual contradictions. When I raised those points they were dismissed with just a repetition of what was in his books. That should have been the red flag for me to walk away, but having never experienced a cult, and still appreciative of the teachings in my local twig, I kept on. But it was already obvious to me that I did NOT want to go in the corps.
1 hour ago, skyrider said:
You obviously have "a dog in this fight"........and come to their defense time and again.
My grandmother used to call me thickheaded. I cannot refute that. I still have high hopes for them. What may seem to be coming to their defense is only my expression of those high hopes. I am more willing than most to give people time and space to change.
But I am convinced of everything you all have shared with me about these folks, and have personally seen only an inkling of it in action - the response to an email to them. And that response was disappointing. So, no, I have no dog in the fight, I will walk away from them when I am convinced they are false.
So, no, I have no dog in the fight, I will walk away from them when I am convinced they are false.
Hopefully the brick $h!t house won’t land to hard on you.
I wonder how many eyewitnesses to the multitude of crimes against members of the body of Christ it’s going to take to convince you the r&r folks are not legit? Or are you waiting for a personal assault?
I wonder how many eyewitnesses to the multitude of crimes against members of the body of Christ it’s going to take to convince you the r&r folks are not legit? Or are you waiting for a personal assault?
As I have already stated, I believe they weren't legit, but whether they are now remains to be seen. I won't need a personal assault, I am keeping them at arm's length. Close enough to watch.
As I have already stated, I believe they weren't legit, but whether they are now remains to be seen. I won't need a personal assault, I am keeping them at arm's length. Close enough to watch.
Best of wishes on your journey. Finding who to connect to, how, and the boundaries in relationships are the most difficult post-Way.
Jackie H@rney "We don't want to burn any bridges. As far as... There's been people that have been cranky with us... But we love you. And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here. We are not going anywhere. We are not going to stop ministering... Because the gifts and the callings of God are without repentance. And we are not going to be bitter. We are not going to be starting a website about how bad everything is. We are going to be moving the Word. That's our life."
Wow. What a contradiction to their response to the email of issues that was sent to them on April 27, 2018, from this thread. I would have thought, based on what she said and they, almost all, were nodding in agreement - only the 2 on the far right were not - that their response would have been better. Actions really do speak louder than words, and their actions are belying their words.
Yes, that's true. Several of them have made that clear. But I know quite a few people who have never been in any leadership position at all in TWI that feel the same way.
While I had no insight into any of those things that took place in the past, I did find early on some flaws in what VPW propounded, actual contradictions. When I raised those points they were dismissed with just a repetition of what was in his books. That should have been the red flag for me to walk away, but having never experienced a cult, and still appreciative of the teachings in my local twig, I kept on. But it was already obvious to me that I did NOT want to go in the corps.
My grandmother used to call me thickheaded. I cannot refute that. I still have high hopes for them. What may seem to be coming to their defense is only my expression of those high hopes. I am more willing than most to give people time and space to change.
But I am convinced of everything you all have shared with me about these folks, and have personally seen only an inkling of it in action - the response to an email to them. And that response was disappointing. So, no, I have no dog in the fight, I will walk away from them when I am convinced they are false.
Taxi, I think they are false, but what the hay, it's your time, you are investing. Please remember one thing: you have been warned.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watchi
Watered Garden
I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Rever
penguin2
I never served at any of the top levels of the Way, but I did graduate from the corpse. I did hold some leadership positions. When I finally left twi, I told God I didn't want to lead again because I
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Twinky
Blessedputrid be the fruit!Link to comment
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Twinky
"And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise).
No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.
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Infoabsorption
"Moving the Word" simply means selling the cult's products and services.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Info, that was true years ago. But I think Chock is right; it was a stupid cult idea. Personally, I got sick of hearing it.
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skyrider
With sleight of hand, wierwille instituted buzzwords, clichés and phrases that fueled the engine of the cult machinery. The splinter groups will NEVER get it right, because they start with the premise that wierwille's "foundation" was solid........and therefore, keep the foundation that wierwille devised. Yet, it was built on cult-sand........and will never stand in the presence of God.
Imo, the whole cult experience was skewed and twisted. When you read the gospels and how Jesus loved and comforted, you see The Great Shepherd of the sheep. He cared for them, and their burdens and wounds....and fought off the wolves. Others are hirelings.....only looking out for themselves and self-opportunities. Could someone show me where, in the gospels, Jesus instructed us to go "move the word?" Sure, preach the word unto all the nations.......but "move the word?" And, we all know the implication from wierwille's cult was..........to run pfal classes.
And, it's going to be very interesting to see how these EX-corps coordinators proceed forward. They were the drill sergeants of the way corps program. If corps were not obedient, these leaders who go ballistic yelling in a nanosecond. With these three corps coordinator couples in this offshoot......it's like having 6 John Lynns in one room!
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chockfull
I'm interested to see their progress. I think Jesus summed it up pretty well in his parable about broken wineskins.
If you start with a plagiarized product amassed by a drunken narcissist with a swinger club, then put it into broken wineskins, what do you think you are going to have left after?
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waysider
A real bad hangover?
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Taxidev
This could very well be true about them. But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?
I am also interested to see their progress, and I will. Consider me naive, I understand, but I am willing to give them a chance. Naive, maybe, but I'm not a fool - I have none of them on a pedestal, especially after all that DWBH shared about his personal experiences with them, for which I am incredibly grateful. He understandably doesn't trust them one bit, and I believe his assessment of them is correct, but I also believe they have the ability to turn around completely.
It's been about a year already that I have been watching them. Based on all the crap they have lived, I am willing to give them more time.
Edited by Taxidevclarification
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skyrider
Yeah, a year already................how much time is enough time?
Don't the scriptures give us indications of 40 days [trial and testing]?.......or 3 months after the Road to Damascus [for Paul]?
Sorry, but.......one year is plenty of time........AFTER WHICH, sources say they'd been contemplating leaving the twit-cult for 4 years. Sheesh. I think the whole thing smells to high heaven and the Lord is having NONE OF IT.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, personally I would not give them five minutes of my time. I wonder when they will turn on each other, and break-up.
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Twinky
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Rocky
"Having them on a pedestal" isn't necessarily the only criterion for foolishness in this scenario.
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Taxidev
Agreed. But I'm still enjoying the teachings. And if that's all I ever get from them, then that's no different than many other sources I have found over the years.
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Taxidev
Really? You're so generous. How long did it take many people to recover from what VPW or LCM did to them? Could they have needed more than a year?
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Rocky
Interesting questions you ask... but they might not be related to the issue at hand. You're on a trajectory that seems incongruous with recovering from TWI.
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skyrider
Totally incongruous, the one with the other.
Admittedly, you claim that there are people recovering from what vpw or lcm did to them. Don't Moneyhands, Forts, Horneys, Sheldons, and others fall into that category? Moneyhands has been a part of the twit-cult since 1969......and the Forts, since like 1972. Wouldn't they need to have some "recover time" to figure things out? Instead, they are jumping head-long into the water and "teaching the word to others" ........albeit, skewed doctrine.
Apples and oranges, Taxidev. One is not the same as the other.
Even though I held many leadership positions [State, Country Coordinator and clergy]........I haven't started any splinter group. LOL. These guys are opportunists and I have been generous in my assessment. There is plenty more that I could say about them.
You obviously have "a dog in this fight"........and come to their defense time and again. You claim to have this absolute integrity for the Word, yet you fail to see the wolves in sheep's clothing, the deceivers, and the prideful. You might want to read those scriptures that tell us to eschew every appearance of evil. These guys were the campus leaders when wierwille/martindale parked their motor coaches out back [or used cabin 12 in Camp Gunnison] and had girls escorted to them late at night. Yet, they still give adulation to wierwille !!! And now, they start their own splinter group............the blind leading the blind and falling in the ditch.
;
Edited by skyridertypo
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Taxidev
Yes, that's true. Several of them have made that clear. But I know quite a few people who have never been in any leadership position at all in TWI that feel the same way.
While I had no insight into any of those things that took place in the past, I did find early on some flaws in what VPW propounded, actual contradictions. When I raised those points they were dismissed with just a repetition of what was in his books. That should have been the red flag for me to walk away, but having never experienced a cult, and still appreciative of the teachings in my local twig, I kept on. But it was already obvious to me that I did NOT want to go in the corps.
My grandmother used to call me thickheaded. I cannot refute that. I still have high hopes for them. What may seem to be coming to their defense is only my expression of those high hopes. I am more willing than most to give people time and space to change.
But I am convinced of everything you all have shared with me about these folks, and have personally seen only an inkling of it in action - the response to an email to them. And that response was disappointing. So, no, I have no dog in the fight, I will walk away from them when I am convinced they are false.
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JayDee
Hopefully the brick $h!t house won’t land to hard on you.
I wonder how many eyewitnesses to the multitude of crimes against members of the body of Christ it’s going to take to convince you the r&r folks are not legit? Or are you waiting for a personal assault?
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Taxidev
As I have already stated, I believe they weren't legit, but whether they are now remains to be seen. I won't need a personal assault, I am keeping them at arm's length. Close enough to watch.
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chockfull
Best of wishes on your journey. Finding who to connect to, how, and the boundaries in relationships are the most difficult post-Way.
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Taxidev
Thank you. This is exactly why, right now, I am at arm's length with everyone regarding God and His Word.
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GeorgeStGeorge
What a delightful phrase to coin! I'm going to see if "Greasespot Gems" is still a thread.
George
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Taxidev
Wow. What a contradiction to their response to the email of issues that was sent to them on April 27, 2018, from this thread. I would have thought, based on what she said and they, almost all, were nodding in agreement - only the 2 on the far right were not - that their response would have been better. Actions really do speak louder than words, and their actions are belying their words.
My confidence in them is weakening.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, I think they are false, but what the hay, it's your time, you are investing. Please remember one thing: you have been warned.
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