Ewwwwww! Bolshevik! You gotta give a warning and a barfbag before posting something like that! The 6th Church of The Plagiarist carries on! How freaking noble. LOL! Just what the world needs. One more self-deluded, self-obsessed, and self-appointed "biblical scholar", pedantic "teacher", "carrier of the light" sent by gawd to be "a gift from Him to you!"......LOL! Boy am I glad gawd made this succession thing so easy! Who knew???
new here...read some posts off an on over the last few years but finally decided to sign up. I lost all my friends when the ministry fell apart, everyone seemed to stop talking to each other. That was a long time ago, now it seems a lifetime ago, yet in many instances, it seems like yesterday. I still have yet to reconnect on a meaningful level with some of those folks who were like family to me.
I was just a young teen when I first got involved with TWI, took the classes and ran fellowships over the years. God blessed my life in numerous ways. I'm so thankful to have had the opportunity to take the PFAL series of classes that changed my life. The loss of the support system (classes, fellowships, the way tree) was monumental. My spiritual family became like my bio family. Not something I wanted to deal with. Never thought that would happen, but it did
As of late, my online participation has renewed my interested in finding a copy of the foundational PFAL class. I've been hearing about a copy of the class on dvd. I'd like to get a copy of it for my personal use. While I don't want to go into the issue of copyright and such, my thinking is: getting back to God's Word that was taught in that class that set me free.
Anyone who can help me get a copy of PFAL, your help would be so appreciated.
Hi, Touch of Spice and welcome to Grease Spot!
I like to reformat posts for clarity - and so...
== == == =
Touch of Spice:
I lost all my friends when the ministry fell apart, everyone seemed to stop talking to each other. .. I still have yet to reconnect on a meaningful level with some of those folks who were like family to me.
== == ==
T-Bone:
You mentioned some things of interest to me in your post and I was wondering if you could elaborate. What year are you referring to when the ministry fell apart? You mentioned losing all your friends then – does that mean everyone you knew went in a different direction, all believed one way and you believed another, they left TWI and you did not?
== == ==
Touch of Spice:
As of late, my online participation has renewed my interested in finding a copy of the foundational PFAL class. I've been hearing about a copy of the class on dvd. I'd like to get a copy of it for my personal use.
== == ==
T-Bone:
How much online participation are you talking about? This is your first post. Were you registered as someone else before?
Like Waysider, I too am curious as to what Grease Spot posts or threads you have read over the last few years; besides being curious – I am also mystified that oddly enough you would seek a copy of the PFAL class from a website community that is predominantly opposed to PFAL, anything still associated with the support system of TWI, and not too keen on offshoots and splinter groups either…
However - folks here can often be very helpful in pointing one in a direction that may be more suitable to your taste – as Bolshevik did in a previous post.
Not sure I'm doing this correctly, so please forgive my lack of computer expertise
...year I left 1988....actually left the country....and when I returned to the US, I moved to a different location, but it seemed that everyone I knew disappeared (speaking of the folks in the area where I lived before I left the country). Over the years, I've reconnected with a few folks who are doing their own thing.
I've been on here many times...as a visitor, I never created an account or signed in other than this account --touchofspice....I hope that answers your question.
Topics that I read....What happened with Martindale and TWI...part of the reason I left when I left the country was because of Martindale's blustering....read more about it on this website clarified some things for me that I had heard through the grapevine. I also read/saw the fax sent by Howard Allen (if memory serves me) telling some f9olks they were not welcome at headquarters. I was curious what happened after I left. Before leaving I saw a large number of people leaving. I heard about some folks getting fired, etc.
I am very surprised at some of the posts I've read, apparently, my experiences with TWI are very different from many of the folks on here. And I don't understand some of the reasons why people stayed--based on their experiences and how they were treated. Another reason I left because of the back biting....things that I saw were definitely contrary to what I believe God Word wanted for his people.
As I lost most of my research library when moving, I was looking for resources, including the PFAL if it was available, however, I have no desire to break the law. Yes, it may seem odd to post here as so many are opposed to TWI. I still believe in God and I still do as much as I can--researching the Word on my own. As it's my understanding that TWI doesn't use PFAL anymore...that's the reason I asked about it.
Hope I've answered your questions....short on time here, but I will return when I have more time
...I am very surprised at some of the posts I've read, apparently, my experiences with TWI are very different from many of the folks on here. And I don't understand some of the reasons why people stayed--based on their experiences and how they were treated. Another reason I left because of the back biting....things that I saw were definitely contrary to what I believe God Word wanted for his people.
As I lost most of my research library when moving, I was looking for resources, including the PFAL if it was available, however, I have no desire to break the law. Yes, it may seem odd to post here as so many are opposed to TWI. I still believe in God and I still do as much as I can--researching the Word on my own. As it's my understanding that TWI doesn't use PFAL anymore...that's the reason I asked about it.
Hope I've answered your questions....short on time here, but I will return when I have more time
be well
Yes – thanks for your quick and informative reply to my questions, Touch of Spice.
As far as your experiences with TWI being very different from many of the folks here on Grease Spot – all I can say is from my own little pet theory – concerning one’s TWI experience: usually the more involved / committed one became – the more that individual was exploited.
The degree to which a TWI follower was used and abused to a greater extent was commensurate with how much the person was wholeheartedly dedicated to The Way International. No matter what one’s level of commitment and involvement was – it seems a fairly common mindset adopted by many was that doing anything for TWI was the same as doing it for God. And along the same vein of thought anything said in PFAL, in TWI teachings and magazines was considered to be on par with the Holy Bible.
Again, I must emphasize this is just my opinion so take it for what it’s worth.
To spell this out in practical terms, a person could remain just a member of a Twig Fellowship for years and not experience or hear of any of the awful things you’ve read about on Grease Spot. That’s because of certain "unwritten policies" put in place like the Lockbox as well as certain people in TWI’s chain of command that serve as a buffer to prevent knowledge of things incompatible with a supposedly Christian organization from reaching your average TWI follower.
I was in TWI for 12 years, and had just finished 2 years of in-residence way corps training when I left. I left because whatever critical thinking skills I had - that had laid dormant for so long were suddenly charged into use (like an emergency resuscitation or something) by first Chris G reading Passing of A Patriarch, then afterwards leadership vying for power, and a dark and depressing malaise that seemed to swallow up everyone. And when I say that my critical thinking skills were charged into use - it's like a sub-zero cold day - you're outside - your ears are uncovered - someone sneaks up behind you and flicks your earlobe - - damn that hurts !!!! fyi - unraveling all this mess is a very painful experience - you have to deal with shock, denial and a bunch of other "negative" things. But it's worth it in the long run - oh, it's so worth it. the freedom, the ability to think what you want, the rush of reality that splashes in your face!
After leaving, I continued to read the Bible, acquired a modest library of books on theology and biblical languages – from which I came to the conclusion that there were lots of issues with PFAL and the doctrine and practices of TWI.
Noting your tendency to research, as a fellow Christian I would encourage you to keep up that habit and to always work on sharpening your critical thinking skills. I hope you continue to visit Grease Spot also.
I’ve listed some books below – by former TWI followers – that might be of interest to you. Note especially Undertow – the author goes by the name Penworks when posting on Grease Spot – she was in TWI’s research department – and if you’re not afraid of getting your bubble burst on TWI’s “the Word” – you ought to put Undertow on the top of your reading list – it will blow your mind !
Love and peace – may you have many enlightening experiences on your journey
new here...read some posts off an on over the last few years but finally decided to sign up. I lost all my friends when the ministry fell apart, everyone seemed to stop talking to each other. That was a long time ago, now it seems a lifetime ago, yet in many instances, it seems like yesterday. I still have yet to reconnect on a meaningful level with some of those folks who were like family to me.
I was just a young teen when I first got involved with TWI, took the classes and ran fellowships over the years. God blessed my life in numerous ways. I'm so thankful to have had the opportunity to take the PFAL series of classes that changed my life. The loss of the support system (classes, fellowships, the way tree) was monumental. My spiritual family became like my bio family. Not something I wanted to deal with. Never thought that would happen, but it did
As of late, my online participation has renewed my interested in finding a copy of the foundational PFAL class. I've been hearing about a copy of the class on dvd. I'd like to get a copy of it for my personal use. While I don't want to go into the issue of copyright and such, my thinking is: getting back to God's Word that was taught in that class that set me free.
Anyone who can help me get a copy of PFAL, your help would be so appreciated.
Hi touchofspice,
Welcome to the 'spot and have a Cafe on the house:
I actually went and did a search on eBay for PFAL.
You can buy orange books ranging from an average of about $15 all the way up to one enterprising individual selling his for $74. I saw an Advanced Class syllabus from the '80s for sale. But I didn't see any tapes.
I also checked out YouTube, and searched for PFAL there. Wow. Somebody uploaded a bunch of PFAL class video there - MrBrianmovies - on YouTube - search for him, and you'll find a bunch of PFAL video.
While I'm not in the same place you are, I wanted to help. Best of wishes.
Ewwwwww! Bolshevik! You gotta give a warning and a barfbag before posting something like that! The 6th Church of The Plagiarist carries on! How freaking noble. LOL! Just what the world needs. One more self-deluded, self-obsessed, and self-appointed "biblical scholar", pedantic "teacher", "carrier of the light" sent by gawd to be "a gift from Him to you!"......LOL! Boy am I glad gawd made this succession thing so easy! Who knew???
Yes – thanks for your quick and informative reply to my questions, Touch of Spice.
As far as your experiences with TWI being very different from many of the folks here on Grease Spot – all I can say is from my own little pet theory – concerning one’s TWI experience: usually the more involved / committed one became – the more that individual was exploited.
The degree to which a TWI follower was used and abused to a greater extent was commensurate with how much the person was wholeheartedly dedicated to The Way International. No matter what one’s level of commitment and involvement was – it seems a fairly common mindset adopted by many was that doing anything for TWI was the same as doing it for God. And along the same vein of thought anything said in PFAL, in TWI teachings and magazines was considered to be on par with the Holy Bible.
Again, I must emphasize this is just my opinion so take it for what it’s worth.
To spell this out in practical terms, a person could remain just a member of a Twig Fellowship for years and not experience or hear of any of the awful things you’ve read about on Grease Spot. That’s because of certain "unwritten policies" put in place like the Lockbox as well as certain people in TWI’s chain of command that serve as a buffer to prevent knowledge of things incompatible with a supposedly Christian organization from reaching your average TWI follower.
I was in TWI for 12 years, and had just finished 2 years of in-residence way corps training when I left. I left because whatever critical thinking skills I had - that had laid dormant for so long were suddenly charged into use (like an emergency resuscitation or something) by first Chris G reading Passing of A Patriarch, then afterwards leadership vying for power, and a dark and depressing malaise that seemed to swallow up everyone. And when I say that my critical thinking skills were charged into use - it's like a sub-zero cold day - you're outside - your ears are uncovered - someone sneaks up behind you and flicks your earlobe - - damn that hurts !!!! fyi - unraveling all this mess is a very painful experience - you have to deal with shock, denial and a bunch of other "negative" things. But it's worth it in the long run - oh, it's so worth it. the freedom, the ability to think what you want, the rush of reality that splashes in your face!
After leaving, I continued to read the Bible, acquired a modest library of books on theology and biblical languages – from which I came to the conclusion that there were lots of issues with PFAL and the doctrine and practices of TWI.
Noting your tendency to research, as a fellow Christian I would encourage you to keep up that habit and to always work on sharpening your critical thinking skills. I hope you continue to visit Grease Spot also.
I’ve listed some books below – by former TWI followers – that might be of interest to you. Note especially Undertow – the author goes by the name Penworks when posting on Grease Spot – she was in TWI’s research department – and if you’re not afraid of getting your bubble burst on TWI’s “the Word” – you ought to put Undertow on the top of your reading list – it will blow your mind !
Love and peace – may you have many enlightening experiences on your journey
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JayDee
Uh, I have a question touchofspice. Are you really "out" of the way cult?
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waysider
You mention you've read some posts here over the years. May I ask what subjects they involved?
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Bolshevik
PFAL is piracy. http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/rec_geerclone.htm
You could subscribe to these guys:
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DontWorryBeHappy
Ewwwwww! Bolshevik! You gotta give a warning and a barfbag before posting something like that! The 6th Church of The Plagiarist carries on! How freaking noble. LOL! Just what the world needs. One more self-deluded, self-obsessed, and self-appointed "biblical scholar", pedantic "teacher", "carrier of the light" sent by gawd to be "a gift from Him to you!"......LOL! Boy am I glad gawd made this succession thing so easy! Who knew???
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T-Bone
Hi, Touch of Spice and welcome to Grease Spot!
I like to reformat posts for clarity - and so...
== == == =
Touch of Spice:
I lost all my friends when the ministry fell apart, everyone seemed to stop talking to each other. .. I still have yet to reconnect on a meaningful level with some of those folks who were like family to me.
== == ==
T-Bone:
You mentioned some things of interest to me in your post and I was wondering if you could elaborate. What year are you referring to when the ministry fell apart? You mentioned losing all your friends then – does that mean everyone you knew went in a different direction, all believed one way and you believed another, they left TWI and you did not?
== == ==
Touch of Spice:
As of late, my online participation has renewed my interested in finding a copy of the foundational PFAL class. I've been hearing about a copy of the class on dvd. I'd like to get a copy of it for my personal use.
== == ==
T-Bone:
How much online participation are you talking about? This is your first post. Were you registered as someone else before?
Like Waysider, I too am curious as to what Grease Spot posts or threads you have read over the last few years; besides being curious – I am also mystified that oddly enough you would seek a copy of the PFAL class from a website community that is predominantly opposed to PFAL, anything still associated with the support system of TWI, and not too keen on offshoots and splinter groups either…
However - folks here can often be very helpful in pointing one in a direction that may be more suitable to your taste – as Bolshevik did in a previous post.
Love and peace,
Hope you find what you’re looking for
T-Bone
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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touchofspice
Not sure I'm doing this correctly, so please forgive my lack of computer expertise
...year I left 1988....actually left the country....and when I returned to the US, I moved to a different location, but it seemed that everyone I knew disappeared (speaking of the folks in the area where I lived before I left the country). Over the years, I've reconnected with a few folks who are doing their own thing.
I've been on here many times...as a visitor, I never created an account or signed in other than this account --touchofspice....I hope that answers your question.
Topics that I read....What happened with Martindale and TWI...part of the reason I left when I left the country was because of Martindale's blustering....read more about it on this website clarified some things for me that I had heard through the grapevine. I also read/saw the fax sent by Howard Allen (if memory serves me) telling some f9olks they were not welcome at headquarters. I was curious what happened after I left. Before leaving I saw a large number of people leaving. I heard about some folks getting fired, etc.
I am very surprised at some of the posts I've read, apparently, my experiences with TWI are very different from many of the folks on here. And I don't understand some of the reasons why people stayed--based on their experiences and how they were treated. Another reason I left because of the back biting....things that I saw were definitely contrary to what I believe God Word wanted for his people.
As I lost most of my research library when moving, I was looking for resources, including the PFAL if it was available, however, I have no desire to break the law. Yes, it may seem odd to post here as so many are opposed to TWI. I still believe in God and I still do as much as I can--researching the Word on my own. As it's my understanding that TWI doesn't use PFAL anymore...that's the reason I asked about it.
Hope I've answered your questions....short on time here, but I will return when I have more time
be well
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T-Bone
Yes – thanks for your quick and informative reply to my questions, Touch of Spice.
As far as your experiences with TWI being very different from many of the folks here on Grease Spot – all I can say is from my own little pet theory – concerning one’s TWI experience: usually the more involved / committed one became – the more that individual was exploited.
The degree to which a TWI follower was used and abused to a greater extent was commensurate with how much the person was wholeheartedly dedicated to The Way International. No matter what one’s level of commitment and involvement was – it seems a fairly common mindset adopted by many was that doing anything for TWI was the same as doing it for God. And along the same vein of thought anything said in PFAL, in TWI teachings and magazines was considered to be on par with the Holy Bible.
Again, I must emphasize this is just my opinion so take it for what it’s worth.
To spell this out in practical terms, a person could remain just a member of a Twig Fellowship for years and not experience or hear of any of the awful things you’ve read about on Grease Spot. That’s because of certain "unwritten policies" put in place like the Lockbox as well as certain people in TWI’s chain of command that serve as a buffer to prevent knowledge of things incompatible with a supposedly Christian organization from reaching your average TWI follower.
I was in TWI for 12 years, and had just finished 2 years of in-residence way corps training when I left. I left because whatever critical thinking skills I had - that had laid dormant for so long were suddenly charged into use (like an emergency resuscitation or something) by first Chris G reading Passing of A Patriarch, then afterwards leadership vying for power, and a dark and depressing malaise that seemed to swallow up everyone. And when I say that my critical thinking skills were charged into use - it's like a sub-zero cold day - you're outside - your ears are uncovered - someone sneaks up behind you and flicks your earlobe - - damn that hurts !!!! fyi - unraveling all this mess is a very painful experience - you have to deal with shock, denial and a bunch of other "negative" things. But it's worth it in the long run - oh, it's so worth it. the freedom, the ability to think what you want, the rush of reality that splashes in your face!
After leaving, I continued to read the Bible, acquired a modest library of books on theology and biblical languages – from which I came to the conclusion that there were lots of issues with PFAL and the doctrine and practices of TWI.
Noting your tendency to research, as a fellow Christian I would encourage you to keep up that habit and to always work on sharpening your critical thinking skills. I hope you continue to visit Grease Spot also.
I’ve listed some books below – by former TWI followers – that might be of interest to you. Note especially Undertow – the author goes by the name Penworks when posting on Grease Spot – she was in TWI’s research department – and if you’re not afraid of getting your bubble burst on TWI’s “the Word” – you ought to put Undertow on the top of your reading list – it will blow your mind !
Love and peace – may you have many enlightening experiences on your journey
T-Bone
Undertow
Losing the Way
The Cult That Snapped
Edited by T-Boneneeded more time
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chockfull
Hi touchofspice,
Welcome to the 'spot and have a Cafe on the house:
I actually went and did a search on eBay for PFAL.
You can buy orange books ranging from an average of about $15 all the way up to one enterprising individual selling his for $74. I saw an Advanced Class syllabus from the '80s for sale. But I didn't see any tapes.
I also checked out YouTube, and searched for PFAL there. Wow. Somebody uploaded a bunch of PFAL class video there - MrBrianmovies - on YouTube - search for him, and you'll find a bunch of PFAL video.
While I'm not in the same place you are, I wanted to help. Best of wishes.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Pardon me, but it also sounds to me, that you are still in.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Honey, tell us how you really feel!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
T-Bone,
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