The books were only one part of a complex indoctrination process. You can't just read the collateral books from PFAL and think you'll understand what it was like to be in The Way. Personally, I think much of the content is quite sophomoric in the way it's presented, especially "the blue book" (The Bible Tells Me So).
That’s a good point about the indoctrination process; that doesn’t occur with the casual reader….which is another thing that makes me wonder about the credibility of some who come to Grease Spot, making like they’re an outsider – not affiliated with TWI in any way, shape or form – and yet as crazy as this sounds, they rave about the merit of wierwille’s books.
Like the person – earlier on this thread who claimed to have a degree in theology – yet deemed some of what they learned in that degreed program was crap compared to wierwille’s books. And on top of that implying they had mastered wierwille’s works - to the point they could reprove TWI leadership who deviated from wierwille’s great “truths”….. By the way – most of the folks that I remember using terms like “mastering PFAL” (wierwille’s books and class) were in the Way Corps. I used terms like that myself when I was in the Way Corps program. I’m not saying that is the only context where phrases like that were used – just saying that even at the highest level of supposedly academic achievement in TWI, “mastering PFAL” was the gold standard of “truth” - - uhm….wierwille’s version of truth that is.
I tend to think with such a tenacious grip on wierwille’s stuff from a supposed outsider- that might be a red flag that they are not being upfront with us - but rather indeed they have been indoctrinated through some level of involvement with TWI.
On a side note – Waysider, thanks for the link to the Waydale repost – glanced through some of it – and will definitely read it in its entirety later – great stuff on applying critical thinking as you wade through wierwille’s mishmash.
The books were only one part of a complex indoctrination process. You can't just read the collateral books.....<snip>
Right you are, waysider..........systematic indoctrination.
Wierwille set the "complex indoctrination process" in motion:
The collateral books were NOT available for purchase.
The collateral books, generally, were NOT to be found in libraries.
The collateral books were methodically and systematically issued in tandem with those who took the pfal class.
Wierwille had a process, a systematic outlay, for newbies.......guarded by controls. Not just the information (collaterals).......but the BUILD-UP PROCESS of "receiving holy spirit and speaking in tongues" in session 12 and accrediting it all to wierwille's pfal class. Praise be to wierwille.......NOT.
.......and now, twi is consumed by indoctrinated corps who run errands for the "spiritual elite" (cough, cough) at hq. Any serious scrutiny or consideration of wierwille as some type of "man of gawd" is flawed six ways from sunday.......perpetrated by a ruse..
Soooo........If the books were so great, why weren't people encouraged to or even allowed to purchase them without the formality of a prescribed dosage plan?
I would not give mine away, nor sell them. Wouldn't give them to a charity shop - except for one, JCOP, I think it was. I wouldn't want to inflict the misery on someone else's life that was inflicted on mine. TWI's name and address is in the books and I wouldn't want anyone contacting them.
There are much better study materials available, as books and online, and a good church can help.
I'm just saying this again in case anybody missed it.
I just wouldn't want to do anything that might lead someone into the clutches of TWI. Nothing that might lead others to danger. Nothing to put a stumbling block in some innocent seeker's way.
I might recommend the books that were plagiarised - stuff by Stiles, Bullinger, etc.
There is also good modern literature, very readable, by (for example) John Stott that doesn't come with invisible sticky strings attached. A good Christian bookshop should be able to offer advice.
The books were only one part of a complex indoctrination process. You can't just read the collateral books from PFAL and think you'll understand what it was like to be in The Way. Personally, I think much of the content is quite sophomoric in the way it's presented, especially "the blue book" (The Bible Tells Me So).
That link definitely clears up some potential dangerous thinking that that book could give a person. And does a good job of saying what is good about it and the things that are clearly incorrect. Definitely will bookmark that link for future reference. Definitely an example of keeping the good and getting rid of the bad that I was trying to convey with earlier posts.
I also find it interesting the person who made that critique of the blue book became an atheist. Because he clearly knows the word pretty good, if anyone has a link to him going in depth about his reasoning for becoming an atheist I would like to see it. But I definitely think he cleared up the good and bad with the book pretty well. Even if he eventually lost his faith somehow.
.......and now, twi is consumed by indoctrinated corps who run errands for the "spiritual elite" (cough, cough) at hq. Any serious scrutiny or consideration of wierwille as some type of "man of gawd" is flawed six ways from sunday.......perpetrated by a ruse..
You know, the one thing worse than the "cult of GSC" is the paranoid delusional cult of anti-GSC that seems to think it's got some profound insight into our groupthink. You're being ridiculous, especially those of you who have never had a post altered or deleted, yet you think all we do is identify cliques and punish dissenters. I PERSONALLY MADE SURE SOME OF YOU COULD REGISTER ON THIS SITE when it was closed to new registrations, and not once did I subject ANYONE to a litmus test for what you believed. If i wanted to keep you out, i could have. Easily. If i wanted to shut you up, i could have, easily.
You know, the post that got people so riled up here WAS reported. It was reviewed. It has not been removed. But you self-righteous know-it-alls who have GSC all figured out seem to know that you know that you know we're going to rally around our favored clique at the expense of dissent.
Stuff it. I'm sick of it. You are demonstrably wrong and I am SICK of your judgmental attitude. People are going to disagree. People are going to fail to get along. Get over it.
You're all welcome here. And you're welcome to second guess "cliques." And you're welcome to second guess moderators. And I am free to tell you that your assessment in that regard is full of s***. I'm doing so now.
Good to see where the sudden interest in my deconversion originated.
For what it's worth, even if I were still a Christian, I don't know that I would stand by everything I wrote in the Blue Book thread. I do stand by the process and sentiment, which is,a healthy way to approach any such material.
I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC.
There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played.
One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc.
If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim.
I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC.
There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played.
One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc.
If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim.
All of the above is pretty darn true. Here's my take:
"The Devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart." Shakespeare, William: "The Merchant of Venice," Act 1 Scene 3.
In Dr, Wierwilles defense , all of his books contain great truth. Truth is where you find it.to say he stole others ,ideas, thoughts on the subject as big as God and his word is false. Dr found truth from others and built on it.
I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof.
His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fraudulent or a century out dated, although none of that is surprising since his credentials were artificial and he didn't allow review of his work and he didn't cite his sources. He was a phony though and through.
I have read a book about Wierwille's type of rhetoric that, if you want to really enlighten people about Wierwille, you could recommend: Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism by Michelle Goldberg. 2007.
Recently someone mentioned it on my blog post series, Fundamentalist Fridays.
From Goldberg's book, we can learn a lot about Wierwille's teachings which still influence today's version of The Way:
Pg. 53, "It [the Christian Nationalist movement that conflates Christianity with patriotism] was happening in the churches, especially megachurches, temples of religious nationalism where millions of Americans gather every week for exultant sermons that mingle evangelical Christianity, self-help, and right-wing politics. ..."
Wierwille did the same thing. Mingled those three ingredients. I offer this information just In case you don't realize what you would be recommending to others ...
That is true but I'd like to hear from others on their opinion on whether or not its a good idea or not.
Since you asked; I would never recommend any TWI book to anyone!!! Not in this lifetime. I think VPW was a POS who copied almost everything he said or wrote. However, if his books gave you hope, and joy, it is your right to recommend them to whomever you wish too.
On 2/6/2017 at 11:33 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:
My advice? Throw everything out and find better material for spiritual growth.
Thomas, I agree with you. I find reading Psalms quite calming, but Proverbs are also quite nice. I know you can go to the Internet, and get help in finding great reading material for your walk with God.
Soooo........If the books were so great, why weren't people encouraged to or even allowed to purchase them without the formality of a prescribed dosage plan?
(I love the smell of rhetoric in the morning.)
Waysider, I thought the PFAL books were boring as hell! I thought they were poorly-written, and hated reading them. I got rid of mine years ago, and couldn't wait to unload them.
Hello Folks!It’s been a long time since I posted here; like 10 years maybe? Every now and then I come here just to see what’s happening, and I saw this thread the other day.
I’d like to answer ImLikeSoConfused’s original question here in a roundabout way.
Instead of giving my answer, I’ll give the answer John S from CES gave me some 13 years ago by telephone.Actually he gave this same answer TWICE, in two phone conversations, separated by at least one year.
Setting the context, John S had done the paper on adultery that had shaken up the ministry in 1985 or 86. If ANYONE had the ability to sense if ANY danger was lurking within Dr’s books, then SURELY he would be on the short list.
I had called to discuss with him with my commitment to not only read Dr’s books, but to master them, and them exclusively. He told me in both conversations that he strongly disagreed with me, and he gave me lots of reasons why I should not focus so strongly on Dr’s books. They were very thorough and very civil conversations.
TWICE in those conversations he had to admit and said so out loud, that if I read only Dr’s books, and disciplined my life to what is within them, I would do well.
I’ve been doing pretty well these past ten years. How are all of you folks doing?
if I read only Dr’s books, and disciplined my life to what is within them, I would do well.
According to what (or who's) standard?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
I’ve been doing pretty well these past ten years.
Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining or expounding a bit on what, exactly, you mean by "pretty well." Is it more of a comparison to others you see, know or hear about in the news? Or maybe you take it to mean something else...
I’ve been doing pretty well these past ten years. How are all of you folks doing?
Im doing great. I attribute that to not believing a lot of what wierwille copied into "his" books from other authors. His works are loaded with error.
I did my rounds through the offshoots when i first left twi. All of them are based on wierwilles stolen material. Of course Shoenheit has a vested interested in telling u you would do well with wierwilles books since his own cult is based on wierwille.
TWICE in those conversations he had to admit and said so out loud, that if I read only Dr’s books, and disciplined my life to what is within them, I would do well.
He wasn't a "Dr." you know that right? Why would anyone want to master the writings of a plagerizer and discipline their life accordingly?
Hello Folks!It’s been a long time since I posted here; like 10 years maybe? Every now and then I come here just to see what’s happening, and I saw this thread the other day.
I’d like to answer ImLikeSoConfused’s original question here in a roundabout way.
Instead of giving my answer, I’ll give the answer John S from CES gave me some 13 years ago by telephone.Actually he gave this same answer TWICE, in two phone conversations, separated by at least one year.
Setting the context, John S had done the paper on adultery that had shaken up the ministry in 1985 or 86. If ANYONE had the ability to sense if ANY danger was lurking within Dr’s books, then SURELY he would be on the short list.
I had called to discuss with him with my commitment to not only read Dr’s books, but to master them, and them exclusively. He told me in both conversations that he strongly disagreed with me, and he gave me lots of reasons why I should not focus so strongly on Dr’s books. They were very thorough and very civil conversations.
TWICE in those conversations he had to admit and said so out loud, that if I read only Dr’s books, and disciplined my life to what is within them, I would do well.
I’ve been doing pretty well these past ten years. How are all of you folks doing?
Hi Mike!! I stopped reading VPW's books years ago. I thought they were poorly-written, and full of dreck. My life is so much better now than it was when I was in Way World. However if VPW's books worked for you, that's great. But they didn't work for the majority of us here at the GSC!
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Steve Lortz
Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused! I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent th
Longhunter
I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof. His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fra
WordWolf
He sounds a great deal like the last child of one that passed through here, the one that later claimed to be his own Dad posting here to support his own posts, sockpuppet style. The "making up stuff"
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Bolshevik
This book is not about The Way. But it does explain the logic behind much of The Way's materials, IMO.
BOOK LINK
You may even find it useful.
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T-Bone
That’s a good point about the indoctrination process; that doesn’t occur with the casual reader….which is another thing that makes me wonder about the credibility of some who come to Grease Spot, making like they’re an outsider – not affiliated with TWI in any way, shape or form – and yet as crazy as this sounds, they rave about the merit of wierwille’s books.
Like the person – earlier on this thread who claimed to have a degree in theology – yet deemed some of what they learned in that degreed program was crap compared to wierwille’s books. And on top of that implying they had mastered wierwille’s works - to the point they could reprove TWI leadership who deviated from wierwille’s great “truths”….. By the way – most of the folks that I remember using terms like “mastering PFAL” (wierwille’s books and class) were in the Way Corps. I used terms like that myself when I was in the Way Corps program. I’m not saying that is the only context where phrases like that were used – just saying that even at the highest level of supposedly academic achievement in TWI, “mastering PFAL” was the gold standard of “truth” - - uhm….wierwille’s version of truth that is.
I tend to think with such a tenacious grip on wierwille’s stuff from a supposed outsider- that might be a red flag that they are not being upfront with us - but rather indeed they have been indoctrinated through some level of involvement with TWI.
On a side note – Waysider, thanks for the link to the Waydale repost – glanced through some of it – and will definitely read it in its entirety later – great stuff on applying critical thinking as you wade through wierwille’s mishmash.
Edited by T-Boneclarity & empasis !
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skyrider
Right you are, waysider..........systematic indoctrination.
Wierwille set the "complex indoctrination process" in motion:
Wierwille had a process, a systematic outlay, for newbies.......guarded by controls. Not just the information (collaterals).......but the BUILD-UP PROCESS of "receiving holy spirit and speaking in tongues" in session 12 and accrediting it all to wierwille's pfal class. Praise be to wierwille.......NOT.
The Game of Incrementalism
Twi Plunders Individual Sovereignty
Corps Program: "Mission Creep"
.......and now, twi is consumed by indoctrinated corps who run errands for the "spiritual elite" (cough, cough) at hq. Any serious scrutiny or consideration of wierwille as some type of "man of gawd" is flawed six ways from sunday.......perpetrated by a ruse..
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waysider
Soooo........If the books were so great, why weren't people encouraged to or even allowed to purchase them without the formality of a prescribed dosage plan?
(I love the smell of rhetoric in the morning.)
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Twinky
I'm just saying this again in case anybody missed it.
I just wouldn't want to do anything that might lead someone into the clutches of TWI. Nothing that might lead others to danger. Nothing to put a stumbling block in some innocent seeker's way.
I might recommend the books that were plagiarised - stuff by Stiles, Bullinger, etc.
There is also good modern literature, very readable, by (for example) John Stott that doesn't come with invisible sticky strings attached. A good Christian bookshop should be able to offer advice.
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ImLikeSoConfused
That link definitely clears up some potential dangerous thinking that that book could give a person. And does a good job of saying what is good about it and the things that are clearly incorrect. Definitely will bookmark that link for future reference. Definitely an example of keeping the good and getting rid of the bad that I was trying to convey with earlier posts.
I also find it interesting the person who made that critique of the blue book became an atheist. Because he clearly knows the word pretty good, if anyone has a link to him going in depth about his reasoning for becoming an atheist I would like to see it. But I definitely think he cleared up the good and bad with the book pretty well. Even if he eventually lost his faith somehow.
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waysider
LINK
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ImLikeSoConfused
Interesting read.
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Rocky
Brilliant analysis in that linked thread.
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Raf
You know, the one thing worse than the "cult of GSC" is the paranoid delusional cult of anti-GSC that seems to think it's got some profound insight into our groupthink. You're being ridiculous, especially those of you who have never had a post altered or deleted, yet you think all we do is identify cliques and punish dissenters. I PERSONALLY MADE SURE SOME OF YOU COULD REGISTER ON THIS SITE when it was closed to new registrations, and not once did I subject ANYONE to a litmus test for what you believed. If i wanted to keep you out, i could have. Easily. If i wanted to shut you up, i could have, easily.
You know, the post that got people so riled up here WAS reported. It was reviewed. It has not been removed. But you self-righteous know-it-alls who have GSC all figured out seem to know that you know that you know we're going to rally around our favored clique at the expense of dissent.
Stuff it. I'm sick of it. You are demonstrably wrong and I am SICK of your judgmental attitude. People are going to disagree. People are going to fail to get along. Get over it.
You're all welcome here. And you're welcome to second guess "cliques." And you're welcome to second guess moderators. And I am free to tell you that your assessment in that regard is full of s***. I'm doing so now.
Please wear only if the shoe fits.
End rant.
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Raf
Good to see where the sudden interest in my deconversion originated.
For what it's worth, even if I were still a Christian, I don't know that I would stand by everything I wrote in the Blue Book thread. I do stand by the process and sentiment, which is,a healthy way to approach any such material.
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Steve Lortz
Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused!
I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC.
There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played.
One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc.
If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim.
Love,
Steve
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Rocky
Very nicely put.
btw, Steve, glad you're healing up.
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Watered Garden
All of the above is pretty darn true. Here's my take:
"The Devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart." Shakespeare, William: "The Merchant of Venice," Act 1 Scene 3.
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Longhunter
I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof.
Edited by LonghunterHis theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fraudulent or a century out dated, although none of that is surprising since his credentials were artificial and he didn't allow review of his work and he didn't cite his sources. He was a phony though and through.
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penworks
I have read a book about Wierwille's type of rhetoric that, if you want to really enlighten people about Wierwille, you could recommend: Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism by Michelle Goldberg. 2007.
Recently someone mentioned it on my blog post series, Fundamentalist Fridays.
From Goldberg's book, we can learn a lot about Wierwille's teachings which still influence today's version of The Way:
Pg. 53, "It [the Christian Nationalist movement that conflates Christianity with patriotism] was happening in the churches, especially megachurches, temples of religious nationalism where millions of Americans gather every week for exultant sermons that mingle evangelical Christianity, self-help, and right-wing politics. ..."
Wierwille did the same thing. Mingled those three ingredients. I offer this information just In case you don't realize what you would be recommending to others ...
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Grace Valerie Claire
Since you asked; I would never recommend any TWI book to anyone!!! Not in this lifetime. I think VPW was a POS who copied almost everything he said or wrote. However, if his books gave you hope, and joy, it is your right to recommend them to whomever you wish too.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Thomas, I agree with you. I find reading Psalms quite calming, but Proverbs are also quite nice. I know you can go to the Internet, and get help in finding great reading material for your walk with God.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Waysider, I thought the PFAL books were boring as hell! I thought they were poorly-written, and hated reading them. I got rid of mine years ago, and couldn't wait to unload them.
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Mike
Hello Folks! It’s been a long time since I posted here; like 10 years maybe? Every now and then I come here just to see what’s happening, and I saw this thread the other day.
I’d like to answer ImLikeSoConfused’s original question here in a roundabout way.
Instead of giving my answer, I’ll give the answer John S from CES gave me some 13 years ago by telephone. Actually he gave this same answer TWICE, in two phone conversations, separated by at least one year.
Setting the context, John S had done the paper on adultery that had shaken up the ministry in 1985 or 86. If ANYONE had the ability to sense if ANY danger was lurking within Dr’s books, then SURELY he would be on the short list.
I had called to discuss with him with my commitment to not only read Dr’s books, but to master them, and them exclusively. He told me in both conversations that he strongly disagreed with me, and he gave me lots of reasons why I should not focus so strongly on Dr’s books. They were very thorough and very civil conversations.
TWICE in those conversations he had to admit and said so out loud, that if I read only Dr’s books, and disciplined my life to what is within them, I would do well.
I’ve been doing pretty well these past ten years. How are all of you folks doing?
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TLC
According to what (or who's) standard?
Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining or expounding a bit on what, exactly, you mean by "pretty well." Is it more of a comparison to others you see, know or hear about in the news? Or maybe you take it to mean something else...
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OldSkool
Im doing great. I attribute that to not believing a lot of what wierwille copied into "his" books from other authors. His works are loaded with error.
I did my rounds through the offshoots when i first left twi. All of them are based on wierwilles stolen material. Of course Shoenheit has a vested interested in telling u you would do well with wierwilles books since his own cult is based on wierwille.
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JayDee
He wasn't a "Dr." you know that right? Why would anyone want to master the writings of a plagerizer and discipline their life accordingly?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Hi Mike!! I stopped reading VPW's books years ago. I thought they were poorly-written, and full of dreck. My life is so much better now than it was when I was in Way World. However if VPW's books worked for you, that's great. But they didn't work for the majority of us here at the GSC!
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