Wierwille, who was supposed to be a Dr., should have known better. All the excuses in the world doesnt make Wierwilles actions acceptable, he stole his ideas and presented them as his own.
Mind u, im not saying the content vpw stole was wrong, harmful, or totally inaccurate. Im simply saying that he was a plagiarist, amongst many othet things.
OldSkool,
Which of these following three arenas of thought and activity do you think your link and your mindset are coming from in making such proclamations?
Book Market.....Academic University.....Family of God
I usually use plagiarism for #2 the “academy” and copyright infringement for #1 the market.
Notice #3 is a little different in this post. Same theme, though. New details.
IF it is the case that I’m right and Dr did get these revelations to “put it all together” then the REAL ownership of the intellectual property is God.
I’ll say it again a little differently. IF it’s the case that God gave a revelation (or two or ten) to some of Dr’s sources, then it’s perfectly right and proper for God, the owner of the idea, to tell Dr to go to Styles and use this, this, this, and this, but not that, and not that.
Did you know that in at least one place Dr said that one or another of his sources had received a revelation from God? I can look it up if anyone’s interested.
Why did none of Dr’s sources sue him for copyright infringement? Maybe because they too knew the true ownership of the ideas.
How many brand new ideas does that make for this post. I don’t mean “brand new” in the sense that I just originated them. No sir! That would be plagiarism or something like it. :)
What I mean by new is how many of these ideas I’m throwing out are new to you folks? They are worth more than a knee jerk rejection. Please take a month or so to think about them before tossing them off. I took years to ponder them.
...Why did none of Dr’s sources sue him for copyright infringement? Maybe because they too knew the true ownership of the ideas.
Probably because vp chose to hide his plagiarism in obscurity - so the rightful owners of the intellectual property never found out - I did mention earlier that's probably why vp's books were only sold to a closed market - i.e. Students of PFAL
Probably because vp chose to hide his plagiarism in obscurity - so the rightful owners of the intellectual property never found out - I did mention earlier that's probably why vp's books were only sold to a closed market - i.e. Students of PFAL
ADAN was originally farmed out to Devon Adair publishing.
Plus, the filming of the class was an investment in non obscurity. BTW, it's the 50th anniversary of it's filming.
ADAN was originally farmed out to Devon Adair publishing.
Plus, the filming of the class was an investment in non obscurity. BTW, it's the 50th anniversary of it's filming.
Publishing and filming are not the same thing as marketing - or in other words - what audience is it released to... the open market or some two bit obscure cult following
Publishing and filming is not the same thing as marketing - or in other words - what audience is it released to... the open market or some two bit obscure cult following
In the 50s Dr was making all kinds of waves in his church, making a lot of enemies. It's hard to imagine no one told Kenyon and the others that VPW was using those texts. In 1962 they started gearing up for a much larger non-obscure ministry. They filmed the PFAL class in Black and White. It had hand drawn charts and Dr's camera skills were terrible. I don't know how many segments were made, but I saw one. It was laughable. YET, they (many collaborators and financial contributors) kept pressing and got it all together. That 1967 color video still impresses me today. Obscurity was not at all in the plan. The audience was widened still by the Life and Time Magazine articles.
VPW taught nobody goes beyond what they are taught
VPW taught the concept of revelation from God
VPW's source for the concept of revelation from God was revelation from God
But VPW hadn't learned how to receive revelation from God
So Abra Cadabra snow on the gas pumps. VPW suddenly gets it.
As did everyone who believed.
God can teach a man how to receive revelation by starting with phenomena.
He did that for the temple boy (Elija?) who kept waking up the sleeping prophet thinking the prophet had called him, all the while it was God calling him. The boy heard phenomena from God, and it initiated a successful teaching in how the boy could receive revelation.
We must know how to operate the manifestations, including the revelation manifestations. But phenomena is something that is of God's doing.
Nice, try, though. I like logical thinking.
PS - Moses and burning bush. Paul on road to Damascus, etc.
I screwed something up and can't get rid of the "Mike said:" stamp.
Anyway, putting the plagiarism, phony credentials and illicit behavior on the back burner for the moment, I'm proposing a simple question.
Supposing the contents of PFAL are really divinely inspired, why do you suppose God chose to include so many items that have been proven to be demonstrably inaccurate?
In the 50s Dr was making all kinds of waves in his church, making a lot of enemies. It's hard to imagine no one told Kenyon and the others that VPW was using those texts. In 1962 they started gearing up for a much larger non-obscure ministry. They filmed the PFAL class in Black and White. It had hand drawn charts and Dr's camera skills were terrible. I don't know how many segments were made, but I saw one. It was laughable. YET, they (many collaborators and financial contributors) kept pressing and got it all together. That 1967 color video still impresses me today. Obscurity was not at all in the plan. The audience was widened still by the Life and Time Magazine articles.
I'm sure vp's adultery did make some waves in his old church
and all the production details, collaborators, financial backers etc still does not justify plagiarism- in fact, I would think that might make all involved as accessories to the crime - but I guess the copyright lawyers should hash all that out
ha those old articles ! vp craved recognition as long as it was positive; but geez whiz - what if it became common knowledge he hijacked the Jesus movement too- the lying thieving weasel he stole that too!
You wrote: "... items that have been proven to be demonstrably inaccurate..."
Proven by whom and proven how?
I have found that most approaches here were started with a pre-determined outcome in mind. That is a fundamental point of method I would (and have) refuse to knowledge as an honest start.
I use a point of method that is the opposite, very much like we were taught to approach the problems and inaccuracies that are found in all the ancient manuscripts. How research is conducted within PFAL should be the same IMO. So, like the original scriptures, the inaccuracies are illusions that can be worked out with patience, time, and guidance. When I find an apparent error in PFAL I take my time and it usually goes away in a fairly short time. Some are slower.
God can teach a man how to receive revelation by starting with phenomena.
He did that for the temple boy (Elija?) who kept waking up the sleeping prophet thinking the prophet had called him, all the while it was God calling him. The boy heard phenomena from God, and it initiated a successful teaching in how the boy could receive revelation.
We must know how to operate the manifestations, including the revelation manifestations. But phenomena is something that is of God's doing.
Nice, try, though. I like logical thinking.
PS - Moses and burning bush. Paul on road to Damascus, etc.
It says phenomena in the verse right were it is written or is this from scripture build up? Cite your source please.
I was thinking of his trip to India and the article he wrote in protest. He also made waves when Donnie was hurt in an accident and possibly broke his back. Peopel were freaked out about that healing and actually angry. He was not obscure kin the Bible Belt.
Nope. I used a dictionary. Your use of the word phenomena is ubiquitous.
My use of it is from the Advanced Class. I was just passing along one of the uncontested items of that class. At lease, I never heard of any controversy with it. What I posted was vanilla AC material.
My use of it is from the Advanced Class. I was just passing along one of the uncontested items of that class. At lease, I never heard of any controversy with it. What I posted was vanilla AC material.
Got it. I need to take a class to learn and understand a new language. Then I am allowed refute your claim?
Got it. I need to take a class to learn and understand a new language. Then I am allowed refute your claim?
You can do it now. I was simply trying to clarify better for you what I had intended to say. I was answering the little logic dilemma you had posed. I just don't see any logical inconsistency in what Dr taught about him receiving revelation kind of from scratch. God taught him. No problem for me.
I was thinking of his trip to India and the article he wrote in protest. He also made waves when Donnie was hurt in an accident and possibly broke his back. Peopel were freaked out about that healing and actually angry. He was not obscure kin the Bible Belt.
You can believe whatever fairytales you want about super-plagiarist vp; keep in mind a lot of other folks have taken off the vp-blinders and have realized he is more like kinfolk to false prophets
My use of it is from the Advanced Class. I was just passing along one of the uncontested items of that class. At lease, I never heard of any controversy with it. What I posted was vanilla AC material.
You do know the definition used in the Advanced Class were plagiarized, don't you? Even if they hadn't been, it would be a circular argument using the Advanced Class to prove its own validity.
You can do it now. I was simply trying to clarify better for you what I had intended to say. I was answering the little logic dilemma you had posed. I just don't see any logical inconsistency in what Dr taught about him receiving revelation kind of from scratch. God taught him. No problem for me.
A dangerous psychopath does not need to be logically inconsistent to be wrong.
VPW built a consistant world. Consistant as long as you choose to stay in it.
I do not believe you have sufficiently answered why you trust VPW, or why it is acceptable for anyone to do so.
There are factual errors in PFAL, quite a few of them. These are not matters of opinion. Your opinion and my opinion can be different. Facts, on the other hand, stand on their own, without anyone's blessing or damnation. Why, if the PFAL material is divinely inspired, does it contain legitimate, factual error? You needn't respond. The question is rhetorical.
You can do it now. I was simply trying to clarify better for you what I had intended to say. I was answering the little logic dilemma you had posed. I just don't see any logical inconsistency in what Dr taught about him receiving revelation kind of from scratch. God taught him. No problem for me.
Being that you have such a flagrant disregard for the laws against plagiarism- I guess I shouldn't be surprised you have your own laws of logic too.
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Mike
OldSkool,
Which of these following three arenas of thought and activity do you think your link and your mindset are coming from in making such proclamations?
Book Market.....Academic University.....Family of God
I usually use plagiarism for #2 the “academy” and copyright infringement for #1 the market.
Notice #3 is a little different in this post. Same theme, though. New details.
IF it is the case that I’m right and Dr did get these revelations to “put it all together” then the REAL ownership of the intellectual property is God.
I’ll say it again a little differently. IF it’s the case that God gave a revelation (or two or ten) to some of Dr’s sources, then it’s perfectly right and proper for God, the owner of the idea, to tell Dr to go to Styles and use this, this, this, and this, but not that, and not that.
Did you know that in at least one place Dr said that one or another of his sources had received a revelation from God? I can look it up if anyone’s interested.
Why did none of Dr’s sources sue him for copyright infringement? Maybe because they too knew the true ownership of the ideas.
How many brand new ideas does that make for this post. I don’t mean “brand new” in the sense that I just originated them. No sir! That would be plagiarism or something like it. :)
What I mean by new is how many of these ideas I’m throwing out are new to you folks? They are worth more than a knee jerk rejection. Please take a month or so to think about them before tossing them off. I took years to ponder them.
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Mike
Oh yeah! Covfefe!
Isn’t that the new Russian cogno-hypnosis meme that starts self replicating after the third repetition?
... Be careful with it.
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T-Bone
Probably because vp chose to hide his plagiarism in obscurity - so the rightful owners of the intellectual property never found out - I did mention earlier that's probably why vp's books were only sold to a closed market - i.e. Students of PFAL
Edited by T-BoneTypos
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Mike
ADAN was originally farmed out to Devon Adair publishing.
Plus, the filming of the class was an investment in non obscurity. BTW, it's the 50th anniversary of it's filming.
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T-Bone
Publishing and filming are not the same thing as marketing - or in other words - what audience is it released to... the open market or some two bit obscure cult following
Edited by T-BoneTypos
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Mike
In the 50s Dr was making all kinds of waves in his church, making a lot of enemies. It's hard to imagine no one told Kenyon and the others that VPW was using those texts. In 1962 they started gearing up for a much larger non-obscure ministry. They filmed the PFAL class in Black and White. It had hand drawn charts and Dr's camera skills were terrible. I don't know how many segments were made, but I saw one. It was laughable. YET, they (many collaborators and financial contributors) kept pressing and got it all together. That 1967 color video still impresses me today. Obscurity was not at all in the plan. The audience was widened still by the Life and Time Magazine articles.
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Bolshevik
VPW taught nobody goes beyond what they are taught
VPW taught the concept of revelation from God
VPW's source for the concept of revelation from God was revelation from God
But VPW hadn't learned how to receive revelation from God
So Abra Cadabra snow on the gas pumps. VPW suddenly gets it.
As did everyone who believed.
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Share on other sites
Mike
God can teach a man how to receive revelation by starting with phenomena.
He did that for the temple boy (Elija?) who kept waking up the sleeping prophet thinking the prophet had called him, all the while it was God calling him. The boy heard phenomena from God, and it initiated a successful teaching in how the boy could receive revelation.
We must know how to operate the manifestations, including the revelation manifestations. But phenomena is something that is of God's doing.
Nice, try, though. I like logical thinking.
PS - Moses and burning bush. Paul on road to Damascus, etc.
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waysider
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Mike
It's glitch city and we're all plagiarizing each other!
(I'm having similar Quote button problems.)
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T-Bone
I'm sure vp's adultery did make some waves in his old church
and all the production details, collaborators, financial backers etc still does not justify plagiarism- in fact, I would think that might make all involved as accessories to the crime - but I guess the copyright lawyers should hash all that out
ha those old articles ! vp craved recognition as long as it was positive; but geez whiz - what if it became common knowledge he hijacked the Jesus movement too- the lying thieving weasel he stole that too!
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Mike
waysider,
You wrote: "... items that have been proven to be demonstrably inaccurate..."
Proven by whom and proven how?
I have found that most approaches here were started with a pre-determined outcome in mind. That is a fundamental point of method I would (and have) refuse to knowledge as an honest start.
I use a point of method that is the opposite, very much like we were taught to approach the problems and inaccuracies that are found in all the ancient manuscripts. How research is conducted within PFAL should be the same IMO. So, like the original scriptures, the inaccuracies are illusions that can be worked out with patience, time, and guidance. When I find an apparent error in PFAL I take my time and it usually goes away in a fairly short time. Some are slower.
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Bolshevik
It says phenomena in the verse right were it is written or is this from scripture build up? Cite your source please.
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Mike
I was thinking of his trip to India and the article he wrote in protest. He also made waves when Donnie was hurt in an accident and possibly broke his back. Peopel were freaked out about that healing and actually angry. He was not obscure kin the Bible Belt.
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Mike
Trying to get me thrown into the Doctrinal Forum?
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Bolshevik
Nope. I used a dictionary. Your use of the word phenomena is ubiquitous.
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Mike
My use of it is from the Advanced Class. I was just passing along one of the uncontested items of that class. At lease, I never heard of any controversy with it. What I posted was vanilla AC material.
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Bolshevik
Got it. I need to take a class to learn and understand a new language. Then I am allowed refute your claim?
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Mike
You can do it now. I was simply trying to clarify better for you what I had intended to say. I was answering the little logic dilemma you had posed. I just don't see any logical inconsistency in what Dr taught about him receiving revelation kind of from scratch. God taught him. No problem for me.
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T-Bone
You can believe whatever fairytales you want about super-plagiarist vp; keep in mind a lot of other folks have taken off the vp-blinders and have realized he is more like kinfolk to false prophets
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waysider
You do know the definition used in the Advanced Class were plagiarized, don't you? Even if they hadn't been, it would be a circular argument using the Advanced Class to prove its own validity.
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Bolshevik
A dangerous psychopath does not need to be logically inconsistent to be wrong.
VPW built a consistant world. Consistant as long as you choose to stay in it.
I do not believe you have sufficiently answered why you trust VPW, or why it is acceptable for anyone to do so.
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waysider
There are factual errors in PFAL, quite a few of them. These are not matters of opinion. Your opinion and my opinion can be different. Facts, on the other hand, stand on their own, without anyone's blessing or damnation. Why, if the PFAL material is divinely inspired, does it contain legitimate, factual error? You needn't respond. The question is rhetorical.
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T-Bone
Being that you have such a flagrant disregard for the laws against plagiarism- I guess I shouldn't be surprised you have your own laws of logic too.
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