I was never part of the way however a "friend" i met on an internet forum introduced his material to me and told me something bad will happen if i give the material to someone else. That I would be in some trouble. That confused me but I never did give his material to any but just gave the pdf book bible tells me so to my sister to read. I don't know if it was a good decision or not but i'd hope not to regret it. I simply don't know enough about wierwille or the way or anything about his books, all I know is his stuff about the law of believing led to me having all kinds of spiritual experiences where I kept trying to believe things and this sort of led to delusions and me ending up in a psych ward because I thought I could have or do anything if I only believed enough. Obviously theres something seriously wrong with that teaching but I just find it so compelling. I wish it were true but it clearly isn't.
The thing is though I became more spiritual after reading his material, talking to God and Jesus, speaking in tongues(something i doubt i ever wouldve been able to do without his material). I mean some good came out of the bad. I just don't know the truth about wierwille but what i read so far here doesn't seem good. So its sort of a dilemma because some good did come out of the bad. And I feel closer to God now than I ever did before his material. So I really don't know.
Almost everything he wrote was lifted from uncredited sources. I can't tell you what to read and what not to read. If you like some aspects of what you read, we can certainly help you find the original sources. Personally, I'm not inclined to believe the original sources had it right either but that's just my opinion.
I was never part of the way however a "friend" i met on an internet forum introduced his material to me and told me something bad will happen if i give the material to someone else. That I would be in some trouble. That confused me but I never did give his material to any but just gave the pdf book bible tells me so to my sister to read. I don't know if it was a good decision or not but i'd hope not to regret it. I simply don't know enough about wierwille or the way or anything about his books, all I know is his stuff about the law of believing led to me having all kinds of spiritual experiences where I kept trying to believe things and this sort of led to delusions and me ending up in a psych ward because I thought I could have or do anything if I only believed enough. Obviously theres something seriously wrong with that teaching but I just find it so compelling. I wish it were true but it clearly isn't.
The thing is though I became more spiritual after reading his material, talking to God and Jesus, speaking in tongues(something i doubt i ever wouldve been able to do without his material). I mean some good came out of the bad. I just don't know the truth about wierwille but what i read so far here doesn't seem good. So its sort of a dilemma because some good did come out of the bad. And I feel closer to God now than I ever did before his material. So I really don't know.
Sounds like you're answering your own question... which is a good thing to do, since you're the one who needs to take responsibility for what you tell anyone else. Can you live with yourself if you suggest Wierwille's writings/teachings to anyone else?
Can you live with yourself if you suggest Wierwille's writings/teachings to anyone else?
Thats a tougher question than the obvious no that seems to come to mind. Part of me feels like it was worth the pain I suffered because I do feel closer to God and I do speak in tongues but on the other hand surely there has to be a better way to come closer to God and to speak in tongues than the pain that comes along with false teaching. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone suffering because they read the wrong thing so its clear the answer is no I can't recommend his stuff. Considering it led to me having a mental breakdown and such:/
Thats a tougher question than the obvious no that seems to come to mind. Part of me feels like it was worth the pain I suffered because I do feel closer to God and I do speak in tongues but on the other hand surely there has to be a better way to come closer to God and to speak in tongues than the pain that comes along with false teaching. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone suffering because they read the wrong thing so its clear the answer is no I can't recommend his stuff. Considering it led to me having a mental breakdown and such:/
I hope you've recovered well from that breakdown. It was 42 years ago when I first learned about "The Teacher" as he so boastfully called himself. As a young airman (enlisted USAF), I remember trying to believe that my eyesight would be healed if only I could believe well enough. I learned soon enough that wasn't true.
I hope you've recovered well from that breakdown. It was 42 years ago when I first learned about "The Teacher" as he so boastfully called himself. As a young airman (enlisted USAF), I remember trying to believe that my eyesight would be healed if only I could believe well enough. I learned soon enough that wasn't true.
Yeah thank God i'm fully recovered. The law of believing that he teaches is just probably the most harmful teaching in my experience that he preached.
You know, that book: "The Bible Tells Me So", the blue book ain't a bad read, regardless of the fraud who sold it to you/your friend (it's paid for). I burned/recycled all of my old Way books but if you read it and it helped you, why not let a friend read it. Sit with your friend and discuss the book and reference the Bible; all things start somewhere.
I would not give mine away, nor sell them. Wouldn't give them to a charity shop - except for one, JCOP, I think it was. I wouldn't want to inflict the misery on someone else's life that was inflicted on mine. TWI's name and address is in the books and I wouldn't want anyone contacting them.
There are much better study materials available, as books and online, and a good church can help.
All my TWI books were from the 1970's (gone now), doubt any of those addresses are still valid, besides, buyer beware. If some of the info in any of those old PFAL books can help someone, who cares (truth on the heal of the devil - if you know what that means). GSC can not police the world regarding the tentacles of TWI, sheesh. I read Capital by Karl Marx and I did not become a communist and much of Mein Kamph by Adolph Hitler and did not become a Nazi. People have minds, and sometimes those minds work.
I was never part of the way however a "friend" i met on an internet forum introduced his material to me and told me something bad will happen if i give the material to someone else. That I would be in some trouble. That confused me but I never did give his material to any but just gave the pdf book bible tells me so to my sister to read. I don't know if it was a good decision or not but i'd hope not to regret it. I simply don't know enough about wierwille or the way or anything about his books, all I know is his stuff about the law of believing led to me having all kinds of spiritual experiences where I kept trying to believe things and this sort of led to delusions and me ending up in a psych ward because I thought I could have or do anything if I only believed enough. Obviously theres something seriously wrong with that teaching but I just find it so compelling. I wish it were true but it clearly isn't.
The thing is though I became more spiritual after reading his material, talking to God and Jesus, speaking in tongues(something i doubt i ever wouldve been able to do without his material). I mean some good came out of the bad. I just don't know the truth about wierwille but what i read so far here doesn't seem good. So its sort of a dilemma because some good did come out of the bad. And I feel closer to God now than I ever did before his material. So I really don't know.
sometimes people feel closer to God after going through a traumatic experience....like the psalmist said - though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me Psalm 23:4....
I can relate to your dilemma - after being in TWI for 12 years and then leaving - I do appreciate the fact that the Power for Abundant Living class (The Bible Tells Me So was one of the books from that class) got me into reading the Bible. Well, I still enjoy reading the Bible but now enjoy the freedom of thought and choice as a Christian free from the intellectual and emotional stranglehold of a cult...with a more discerning eye I have come to realize so much of wierwille's stuff was just feel-good pablum and something to give folks false hopes....
There's a lot of good Bible study helps out there - stuff by real legitimate scholars - that you may want to check out. I have a modest library of Bible versions, reference tools, commentaries, and theological studies on shelves, computer and devices....Perhaps you already have some of this stuff too. It may be a lot more work on your part - to ferret out the meaning and application of a passage - but it will be more rewarding too! Rewarding in terms of growth, developing critical thinking skills etc...I believe there are no shortcuts to anything of real value.
Rocky said it looks like you may have figured out a lot of stuff yourself as far as where wierwille is at judging by your own experience...perhaps revisiting Matthew 7 of Jesus' call to discernment - by their fruit you shall know them - it would be worth your time...it's a tough pill to swallow but it is necessary to admit when we figure out we've been deceived. We were drawn to an attractive tree that seemed to hold so much promise. But then...eating the fruit of that tree - digesting the insidious doctrine and practice - we come to find out that tree is not so good...not good at all...don't feel ashamed - Jesus' message of discernment in Matthew 7 is to everyone ....even Christians can be deceived though they are looking for spiritual nourishment.
I know hes sort of a fraud but his material really resonated with me in a way other authors haven't. I felt joy and hope reading his book bible tells me so. I know hes a rotten person but is it okay to recommend his material to others? I know his law of believing is false and who knows what else but for just a little bit I felt in control of my life. So whats the consensus here on his material? Still okay? Or get rid of it and forget about it?
I tend to think of the books and material as pieces of a bigger machine with VPW at the hub. On their own, they're mostly nonsense. Just words out of context. How could they be understood in any useful way? Perhaps they resonate with certain types of thinking. Perhaps that's another thread topic.
ILSC, nobody will arrest you or sue you for recommending VPW's material to others.
I used to recommend his books and frequently lent out PFAL, though I had my doubts about the organization in general and didn't promote any activities, such as twigs and classes. The book was rarely ever returned to me and I would replace it from time to time. Finally, about 10 years ago, while still quite the novice in how the internet worked, I accidentally stumbled into GSC in my search for a replacement copy. Wow! were my eyes ever opened. I discovered I really didn't know anything about the workings of the organization I had inadvertently promoted.
One thing that had plagued me after I left was a sense of guilt for deserting my commitment, including the salt covenant. I was also concerned about crazy stuff, like "how safe would my family be now that I have walked away from the so-called hedge of protection?". I was concerned that I would see consequences in my health and safety because I longer abundantly shared (tithed). Lots of things ran through my mind. It's not a good place to be, mentally. This place has helped me tremendously in understanding that my concerns were misplaced.
I'm not exactly sure if that addresses the concerns expressed here but those are my immediate thoughts.
In Dr, Wierwilles defense , all of his books contain great truth. Truth is where you find it.to say he stole others ,ideas, thoughts on the subject as big as God and his word is false. Dr found truth from others and built on it. He was able to organize and present it in such a way that helped open Gods Word to people.I personally have seen in my life more miracles and blessings by, learning , applying, and living what Dr wierwille taught than 20 years in the Baptist church. Most of what I read here is pure bologna. yes it is true there are Bad people in the Way , people were hurt, bad leadership, my heart goes out to those that had there life turned up side down. But, the fault lies in looking to people instead of God, his word and common sense, I have personally confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. they ran with there tails between there legs . I have moved on and have acquired a bachelors degree in theology, and let me say , some of the studies are pure crap. I thank God what Dr Wierwille found from others. personally I don't care if you like what I say or not, you can disagree , cry, rant, claim you have the all truth and call me a liar, but I will say this one thing about this site, cowards , you should of stood up for yourself when you had the chance, IF you would have mastered his books, did the research, applied the principals, maybe all this venom, pain ,hatred, weakness, would have been avoided. We don't follow people , we study to show ourselves approved before God. God is love. Jesus Christ did come to give us the more abundant life To bad you focused on peoples flaws , and did not spend more time in the word, Again I am sorry for the pain the way caused , I am not in the way, but, what others did, to people, was wrong. but there is no religious organization that is perfect. No College degree that has all the answers. No preacher ,paster, that is perfect. Only God and his Word are. This site needs forgiveness, forgiveness of others , the way, forgiveness of our own self . then look to God and his wonderful son Our Lord and Savior , Jesus Christ. then move out and enjoy the freedom God gives. Tim lee
Were you personally involved with The Way at some point in your life?
I'm not going to "rant, cry, call you a liar or claim to have all the truth". I am, however, going to present some points that may appear to disagree with your position.
First, VPW wasn't really a "Dr.". He grossly misrepresented his credentials to give himself an appearance of authority and credibility. You can find quite a bit of cold hard factual information on this site that addresses this subject.
Second, he didn't merely "organize and present" what others had found. The truth is, he flat out plagiarized much of the material he presented, sometimes entire paragraphs, chapters, even whole books. Remember when he said God told him He would teach him the word like it hadn't been known for 2,000 years? Well, that simply can't be true if the information was already in published form, attributed to other authors. You mentioned you have a college degree. Surely, then, you must understand the importance of documenting sources.
Third, if you think people didn't "stand up for themselves" and protest misdeeds that were taking place, you have a very limited understanding of what actually took place.
There's more, of course, much more. If you feel compelled to learn a bit more about the issues I raised, we would be more than glad to engage in a civil discussion with you and direct you to any type of information you feel might help expand your understanding of what took place and the purpose of this site.
In Dr, Wierwilles defense , all of his books contain great truth. Truth is where you find it.to say he stole others ,ideas, thoughts on the subject as big as God and his word is false. Dr found truth from others and built on it. He was able to organize and present it in such a way that helped open Gods Word to people.I personally have seen in my life more miracles and blessings by, learning , applying, and living what Dr wierwille taught than 20 years in the Baptist church. Most of what I read here is pure bologna. yes it is true there are Bad people in the Way , people were hurt, bad leadership, my heart goes out to those that had there life turned up side down. But, the fault lies in looking to people instead of God, his word and common sense, I have personally confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. they ran with there tails between there legs . I have moved on and have acquired a bachelors degree in theology, and let me say , some of the studies are pure crap. I thank God what Dr Wierwille found from others. personally I don't care if you like what I say or not, you can disagree , cry, rant, claim you have the all truth and call me a liar, but I will say this one thing about this site, cowards , you should of stood up for yourself when you had the chance, IF you would have mastered his books, did the research, applied the principals, maybe all this venom, pain ,hatred, weakness, would have been avoided. We don't follow people , we study to show ourselves approved before God. God is love. Jesus Christ did come to give us the more abundant life To bad you focused on peoples flaws , and did not spend more time in the word, Again I am sorry for the pain the way caused , I am not in the way, but, what others did, to people, was wrong. but there is no religious organization that is perfect. No College degree that has all the answers. No preacher ,paster, that is perfect. Only God and his Word are. This site needs forgiveness, forgiveness of others , the way, forgiveness of our own self . then look to God and his wonderful son Our Lord and Savior , Jesus Christ. then move out and enjoy the freedom God gives. Tim lee
I disagree with much of what you posted, but I appreciate very much that you are candid about your intention to come here solely to be argumentative. Peace.
In Dr, Wierwilles defense , all of his books contain great truth. Truth is where you find it.to say he stole others ,ideas, thoughts on the subject as big as God and his word is false. Dr found truth from others and built on it. He was able to organize and present it in such a way that helped open Gods Word to people.I personally have seen in my life more miracles and blessings by, learning , applying, and living what Dr wierwille taught than 20 years in the Baptist church. Most of what I read here is pure bologna. yes it is true there are Bad people in the Way , people were hurt, bad leadership, my heart goes out to those that had there life turned up side down. But, the fault lies in looking to people instead of God, his word and common sense, I have personally confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. they ran with there tails between there legs . I have moved on and have acquired a bachelors degree in theology, and let me say , some of the studies are pure crap. I thank God what Dr Wierwille found from others. personally I don't care if you like what I say or not, you can disagree , cry, rant, claim you have the all truth and call me a liar, but I will say this one thing about this site, cowards , you should of stood up for yourself when you had the chance, IF you would have mastered his books, did the research, applied the principals, maybe all this venom, pain ,hatred, weakness, would have been avoided. We don't follow people , we study to show ourselves approved before God. God is love. Jesus Christ did come to give us the more abundant life To bad you focused on peoples flaws , and did not spend more time in the word, Again I am sorry for the pain the way caused , I am not in the way, but, what others did, to people, was wrong. but there is no religious organization that is perfect. No College degree that has all the answers. No preacher ,paster, that is perfect. Only God and his Word are. This site needs forgiveness, forgiveness of others , the way, forgiveness of our own self . then look to God and his wonderful son Our Lord and Savior , Jesus Christ. then move out and enjoy the freedom God gives. Tim lee
Welcome to Grease Spot. You wouldn’t happen to be friends with or an alternate persona of the one who started this thread would you? Seems like you’re both coming from the same place but with slightly different tactics…anyway… Just wondering… Frankly, I am incredulous of your entire post – and I do have to say a few things in response.
To master “doctor” wierwille’s books is an odd thing to say…– to master something is usually meant one has a thorough knowledge and experience in controlling, applying or using something – for example “she is a master of six languages”
….“doctor” wierwille’s books - besides being suffused with self-aggrandizement are also severely mangled material from other authors – often wierwille’s mangling of plagiarized material was his different conclusions, misapplication and a skewed re-interpretation of other people’s work…..to master that – to apply what’s in wierwille’s books is an effort in futility. I did that for 12 years.
I am very surprised…or more precisley I find it very hard to believe that anyone who has acquired a bachelor’s degree in theology (as you claim to have) from an accredited school – which I would assume adheres to academic standards and promotes intellectual honesty would unabashedly defend wierwille’s books.
Another thing that doesn’t ring true for me is that you say you confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. Perhaps you need to explore Grease Spot more…there are lots of accounts of courageous followers confronting leadership – and I want you to pay close attention to the leaderships’ response portion of the accounts – the responses are categorically and uniformly the exact opposite outcome from the supposed victories you claim to have achieved.
Concerning your charge that I still have venom, pain, weakness, hatred - you might want to review Matthew 7 on judging others and discerning true and false prophets, true and false disciples and wise and foolish builders. Maybe the shoe is on the other foot. The venom…the pain…the weakness…the hatred within wierwille’s twisted doctrine incapacitates one’s ability to see things objectively. It’s like having a plank in your own eye while you try to see the speck of sawdust in the eye of someone else (Matthew 7:3-5). Yes, you do have two eyes – but focusing on anything is extremely difficult and it’s not a clear picture because part of your vision is dominated by the plank of wierwille’s twisted doctrine. Jesus’ solution was simple yet challenging – remove the plank! I have mastered that one. Stick around here – I mean that sincerely – it is a lot of work – but worth it I assure you – it’s worth it for the peace of mind, freedom of thought and a gazillion other benefits.
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Steve Lortz
Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused! I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent th
Longhunter
I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof. His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fra
WordWolf
He sounds a great deal like the last child of one that passed through here, the one that later claimed to be his own Dad posting here to support his own posts, sockpuppet style. The "making up stuff"
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OldSkool
Its your choice what u recomnend to someone.
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JayDee
Sort of a fraud???
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ImLikeSoConfused
That is true but I'd like to hear from others on their opinion on whether or not its a good idea or not.
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ImLikeSoConfused
Like with all the scandals and accusations against him.
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ImLikeSoConfused
I was never part of the way however a "friend" i met on an internet forum introduced his material to me and told me something bad will happen if i give the material to someone else. That I would be in some trouble. That confused me but I never did give his material to any but just gave the pdf book bible tells me so to my sister to read. I don't know if it was a good decision or not but i'd hope not to regret it. I simply don't know enough about wierwille or the way or anything about his books, all I know is his stuff about the law of believing led to me having all kinds of spiritual experiences where I kept trying to believe things and this sort of led to delusions and me ending up in a psych ward because I thought I could have or do anything if I only believed enough. Obviously theres something seriously wrong with that teaching but I just find it so compelling. I wish it were true but it clearly isn't.
The thing is though I became more spiritual after reading his material, talking to God and Jesus, speaking in tongues(something i doubt i ever wouldve been able to do without his material). I mean some good came out of the bad. I just don't know the truth about wierwille but what i read so far here doesn't seem good. So its sort of a dilemma because some good did come out of the bad. And I feel closer to God now than I ever did before his material. So I really don't know.
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JayDee
You're at the right place to find out about the scandals and accusations. Just start looking around.
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waysider
Almost everything he wrote was lifted from uncredited sources. I can't tell you what to read and what not to read. If you like some aspects of what you read, we can certainly help you find the original sources. Personally, I'm not inclined to believe the original sources had it right either but that's just my opinion.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
My advice? Throw everything out and find better material for spiritual growth.
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Rocky
Sounds like you're answering your own question... which is a good thing to do, since you're the one who needs to take responsibility for what you tell anyone else. Can you live with yourself if you suggest Wierwille's writings/teachings to anyone else?
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ImLikeSoConfused
Thats a tougher question than the obvious no that seems to come to mind. Part of me feels like it was worth the pain I suffered because I do feel closer to God and I do speak in tongues but on the other hand surely there has to be a better way to come closer to God and to speak in tongues than the pain that comes along with false teaching. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone suffering because they read the wrong thing so its clear the answer is no I can't recommend his stuff. Considering it led to me having a mental breakdown and such:/
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Rocky
I hope you've recovered well from that breakdown. It was 42 years ago when I first learned about "The Teacher" as he so boastfully called himself. As a young airman (enlisted USAF), I remember trying to believe that my eyesight would be healed if only I could believe well enough. I learned soon enough that wasn't true.
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ImLikeSoConfused
Yeah thank God i'm fully recovered. The law of believing that he teaches is just probably the most harmful teaching in my experience that he preached.
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MRAP
You know, that book: "The Bible Tells Me So", the blue book ain't a bad read, regardless of the fraud who sold it to you/your friend (it's paid for). I burned/recycled all of my old Way books but if you read it and it helped you, why not let a friend read it. Sit with your friend and discuss the book and reference the Bible; all things start somewhere.
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Twinky
I would not give mine away, nor sell them. Wouldn't give them to a charity shop - except for one, JCOP, I think it was. I wouldn't want to inflict the misery on someone else's life that was inflicted on mine. TWI's name and address is in the books and I wouldn't want anyone contacting them.
There are much better study materials available, as books and online, and a good church can help.
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MRAP
All my TWI books were from the 1970's (gone now), doubt any of those addresses are still valid, besides, buyer beware. If some of the info in any of those old PFAL books can help someone, who cares (truth on the heal of the devil - if you know what that means). GSC can not police the world regarding the tentacles of TWI, sheesh. I read Capital by Karl Marx and I did not become a communist and much of Mein Kamph by Adolph Hitler and did not become a Nazi. People have minds, and sometimes those minds work.
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T-Bone
sometimes people feel closer to God after going through a traumatic experience....like the psalmist said - though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me Psalm 23:4....
I can relate to your dilemma - after being in TWI for 12 years and then leaving - I do appreciate the fact that the Power for Abundant Living class (The Bible Tells Me So was one of the books from that class) got me into reading the Bible. Well, I still enjoy reading the Bible but now enjoy the freedom of thought and choice as a Christian free from the intellectual and emotional stranglehold of a cult...with a more discerning eye I have come to realize so much of wierwille's stuff was just feel-good pablum and something to give folks false hopes....
There's a lot of good Bible study helps out there - stuff by real legitimate scholars - that you may want to check out. I have a modest library of Bible versions, reference tools, commentaries, and theological studies on shelves, computer and devices....Perhaps you already have some of this stuff too. It may be a lot more work on your part - to ferret out the meaning and application of a passage - but it will be more rewarding too! Rewarding in terms of growth, developing critical thinking skills etc...I believe there are no shortcuts to anything of real value.
Rocky said it looks like you may have figured out a lot of stuff yourself as far as where wierwille is at judging by your own experience...perhaps revisiting Matthew 7 of Jesus' call to discernment - by their fruit you shall know them - it would be worth your time...it's a tough pill to swallow but it is necessary to admit when we figure out we've been deceived. We were drawn to an attractive tree that seemed to hold so much promise. But then...eating the fruit of that tree - digesting the insidious doctrine and practice - we come to find out that tree is not so good...not good at all...don't feel ashamed - Jesus' message of discernment in Matthew 7 is to everyone ....even Christians can be deceived though they are looking for spiritual nourishment.
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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Bolshevik
I tend to think of the books and material as pieces of a bigger machine with VPW at the hub. On their own, they're mostly nonsense. Just words out of context. How could they be understood in any useful way? Perhaps they resonate with certain types of thinking. Perhaps that's another thread topic.
ILSC, nobody will arrest you or sue you for recommending VPW's material to others.
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waysider
Bit of a side note here.
I used to recommend his books and frequently lent out PFAL, though I had my doubts about the organization in general and didn't promote any activities, such as twigs and classes. The book was rarely ever returned to me and I would replace it from time to time. Finally, about 10 years ago, while still quite the novice in how the internet worked, I accidentally stumbled into GSC in my search for a replacement copy. Wow! were my eyes ever opened. I discovered I really didn't know anything about the workings of the organization I had inadvertently promoted.
One thing that had plagued me after I left was a sense of guilt for deserting my commitment, including the salt covenant. I was also concerned about crazy stuff, like "how safe would my family be now that I have walked away from the so-called hedge of protection?". I was concerned that I would see consequences in my health and safety because I longer abundantly shared (tithed). Lots of things ran through my mind. It's not a good place to be, mentally. This place has helped me tremendously in understanding that my concerns were misplaced.
I'm not exactly sure if that addresses the concerns expressed here but those are my immediate thoughts.
Edited by waysiderspelling
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Seth R.
I'm sure Hitler's speeches would seem compelling to someone who didn't know who he was...
The fact that you attribute those books to your vacation in the nut hut doesn't speak for itself?
Do yourself a favor, don't spread that disease it comes with guilt later in life. Pitch them in the dust bin and don't look back.
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Longhunter
VPW's books may be a comfort, but that doesn't mean any of it is true.
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timlee
In Dr, Wierwilles defense , all of his books contain great truth. Truth is where you find it.to say he stole others ,ideas, thoughts on the subject as big as God and his word is false. Dr found truth from others and built on it. He was able to organize and present it in such a way that helped open Gods Word to people.I personally have seen in my life more miracles and blessings by, learning , applying, and living what Dr wierwille taught than 20 years in the Baptist church. Most of what I read here is pure bologna. yes it is true there are Bad people in the Way , people were hurt, bad leadership, my heart goes out to those that had there life turned up side down. But, the fault lies in looking to people instead of God, his word and common sense, I have personally confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. they ran with there tails between there legs . I have moved on and have acquired a bachelors degree in theology, and let me say , some of the studies are pure crap. I thank God what Dr Wierwille found from others. personally I don't care if you like what I say or not, you can disagree , cry, rant, claim you have the all truth and call me a liar, but I will say this one thing about this site, cowards , you should of stood up for yourself when you had the chance, IF you would have mastered his books, did the research, applied the principals, maybe all this venom, pain ,hatred, weakness, would have been avoided. We don't follow people , we study to show ourselves approved before God. God is love. Jesus Christ did come to give us the more abundant life To bad you focused on peoples flaws , and did not spend more time in the word, Again I am sorry for the pain the way caused , I am not in the way, but, what others did, to people, was wrong. but there is no religious organization that is perfect. No College degree that has all the answers. No preacher ,paster, that is perfect. Only God and his Word are. This site needs forgiveness, forgiveness of others , the way, forgiveness of our own self . then look to God and his wonderful son Our Lord and Savior , Jesus Christ. then move out and enjoy the freedom God gives. Tim lee
Edited by timleewrong spelling.
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waysider
Greetings, timlee.
It's always nice to welcome newcomers to GSC.
Were you personally involved with The Way at some point in your life?
I'm not going to "rant, cry, call you a liar or claim to have all the truth". I am, however, going to present some points that may appear to disagree with your position.
First, VPW wasn't really a "Dr.". He grossly misrepresented his credentials to give himself an appearance of authority and credibility. You can find quite a bit of cold hard factual information on this site that addresses this subject.
Second, he didn't merely "organize and present" what others had found. The truth is, he flat out plagiarized much of the material he presented, sometimes entire paragraphs, chapters, even whole books. Remember when he said God told him He would teach him the word like it hadn't been known for 2,000 years? Well, that simply can't be true if the information was already in published form, attributed to other authors. You mentioned you have a college degree. Surely, then, you must understand the importance of documenting sources.
Third, if you think people didn't "stand up for themselves" and protest misdeeds that were taking place, you have a very limited understanding of what actually took place.
There's more, of course, much more. If you feel compelled to learn a bit more about the issues I raised, we would be more than glad to engage in a civil discussion with you and direct you to any type of information you feel might help expand your understanding of what took place and the purpose of this site.
I bid you peace
waysider
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Rocky
I disagree with much of what you posted, but I appreciate very much that you are candid about your intention to come here solely to be argumentative. Peace.
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T-Bone
Welcome to Grease Spot. You wouldn’t happen to be friends with or an alternate persona of the one who started this thread would you? Seems like you’re both coming from the same place but with slightly different tactics…anyway… Just wondering… Frankly, I am incredulous of your entire post – and I do have to say a few things in response.
To master “doctor” wierwille’s books is an odd thing to say…– to master something is usually meant one has a thorough knowledge and experience in controlling, applying or using something – for example “she is a master of six languages”
to master something
….“doctor” wierwille’s books - besides being suffused with self-aggrandizement are also severely mangled material from other authors – often wierwille’s mangling of plagiarized material was his different conclusions, misapplication and a skewed re-interpretation of other people’s work…..to master that – to apply what’s in wierwille’s books is an effort in futility. I did that for 12 years.
I am very surprised…or more precisley I find it very hard to believe that anyone who has acquired a bachelor’s degree in theology (as you claim to have) from an accredited school – which I would assume adheres to academic standards and promotes intellectual honesty would unabashedly defend wierwille’s books.
Another thing that doesn’t ring true for me is that you say you confronted many way leadership and backed them down every time. Perhaps you need to explore Grease Spot more…there are lots of accounts of courageous followers confronting leadership – and I want you to pay close attention to the leaderships’ response portion of the accounts – the responses are categorically and uniformly the exact opposite outcome from the supposed victories you claim to have achieved.
Concerning your charge that I still have venom, pain, weakness, hatred - you might want to review Matthew 7 on judging others and discerning true and false prophets, true and false disciples and wise and foolish builders. Maybe the shoe is on the other foot. The venom…the pain…the weakness…the hatred within wierwille’s twisted doctrine incapacitates one’s ability to see things objectively. It’s like having a plank in your own eye while you try to see the speck of sawdust in the eye of someone else (Matthew 7:3-5). Yes, you do have two eyes – but focusing on anything is extremely difficult and it’s not a clear picture because part of your vision is dominated by the plank of wierwille’s twisted doctrine. Jesus’ solution was simple yet challenging – remove the plank! I have mastered that one. Stick around here – I mean that sincerely – it is a lot of work – but worth it I assure you – it’s worth it for the peace of mind, freedom of thought and a gazillion other benefits.
Love and peace
T-Bone
Edited by T-Boneclarity
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