Here we go again. Another rodeo at GSC........another troll hiding in the shadows of inference and innuendo. Notice this person NEVER gives any information or substantiating facts about their own life, but follows around a poster trying to sow discord.
Gawd..........thru the years, we've seen lots of these. Most often, there is a wierwille-apologist nostalgia underneath the cloak. Perhaps, TLC would like to share what *really* is behind his posts and why he comes here? Or.......watch folks, another side-diversion coming in 3-2-1...........
Follows around a poster (i.e., you?) trying to sow discord? You seem to think rather highly of yourself, sky, that such could be the case.
I'd actually thought you might let go of some of that chip on your shoulder after telling so much of your story here, sky. Seems maybe I got it wrong, though. Just about a year ago I wrote that "the Rev. label seemed to change people, but not for the better." Your response was to ask if I knew anything about you, and whether I always used such broad strokes in my judgments. My statement was actually based on general observations made from years ago while in TWI, from a time before you had your label, and wasn't put forth as being judgmental on anybody. I just couldn't think of any clear or specific exceptions to the statement (although, there may be some.) Having said that, and now realizing that yes, I did know you back then when you were on staff at HQ, and nothing I've read from you here puts you in the camp of being one of those exceptions.
If you suppose me to be some sort of "weirwille-apologist nostalgia underneath the cloak," how is it that I so easily recognize (and have stated, and have acknowledged) the train wreck effect that he and "the ministry" had on so many? Solely because I've steered clear of recounting much of the BS we've dealt with in times past? Why the big push for it? It no longer troubles me, and I've moved on. I'd think there would be more intrigue with the how to move on part. Seems maybe I got it wrong, though.
Nope. Not my job. If someone is bent on reading or taking what I said the wrong way, so be it. Same goes for you (and anybody else.) I didn't make a mistake when I wrote what I wrote, and it seems I may not have any better way to say it if there's no effort on your part to see or think about it from a different perspective.
Sounds like you may not grasp basic communication concepts. You haven't objectively demonstrated that you didn't make a mistake when you wrote what you wrote. Until you get an acknowledgement from your intended audience that he/she/they understood the message as you intended to send it, you have no way to know if you made such a mistake or not.
Sounds like you may not grasp basic communication concepts. You haven't objectively demonstrated that you didn't make a mistake when you wrote what you wrote. Until you get an acknowledgement from your intended audience that he/she/they understood the message as you intended to send it, you have no way to know if you made such a mistake or not.
TLC from my perception you spend a great deal more time defending your honor than you do on your original content posts. Like one paragraph sharing how you feel, and sometimes that can come off both vague and like you are judging others unlike you but I don't think that is your intent. Then someone feels criticized by what is at best a vague statement, and an argument ensues. Then you'll write 8 posts in defense of your vague honor.
Can you spend a little more time developing your original concept, about how seeing the vastness of life helped you overcome the hurts of the past and made them seem small or something? I kind of thought that was where you were going prior to the dust-up. That path to recovery is fine as well, just don't be critical of those who feel telling their stories helps them recover and make sense of things. I feel that way. Actually I feel I need different things at different times to recover, and if someone wants to judge me that's their issue.
I don't think you are a wierwille apologist and you've posted around here for longer than a drive-by.
Nope. Not my job. If someone is bent on reading or taking what I said the wrong way, so be it. Same goes for you (and anybody else.) I didn't make a mistake when I wrote what I wrote, and it seems I may not have any better way to say it if there's no effort on your part to see or think about it from a different perspective.
I think it's a bit unfair to say I'm not willing to look at it from another perspective. I did, after all, suggest you present one.
Preach all you want…and I’ll chime in too. It’s scary how vp’s traits like being callous, mean-spirited, berating and accusing people - rubbed off on some folks. Oh the communicable "wonders" of the way corps training program.
Reminds me of something his star pupil LCM said one corps night (consider this a follow up note to my previous post). At the time I didn’t even write it down but it surfaced in my memory years later as a mean and ugly blast from the past …after our daughter was born. LCM was on some rant of the moment about Special Olympics and he referred to the athletes as freaks of nature…..those were his exact words.
Back to your mention of the Women’s March; they had a big one here yesterday…We would like to have gone to it but couldn’t because of work and other commitments.
How dare he day something like that about Spec Ed kids?? I think LCM was a " freak of nature! ". That POS!
As hinted at by the word "dual" within it, duality refers to having two parts, often with opposite meanings, like the duality of good and evil.
If there are two sides to a coin, metaphorically speaking, there's a duality. Peace and war, love and hate, up and down, and black and white are dualities. Another term for a duality is a dichotomy. Duality has technical meanings in geometry and physics. In geometry, duality refers to how points and planes have interchangeable roles in projective geometry. In physics, duality is the property of matter and electromagnetic radiation to be understood best through wave theory or particle theory.
------
This is truth.
As always Skyrider, you make very good points.
I would venture to say that most of us here at GSC hold that there IS a dichotomy between good and evil.
What did Jesus have to say about this particular duality (the one that Skyrider noted in starting this thread)? Forsaking family...
It occurs to me that it raises very intriguing issues especially given that most of us -- even those of us who are now 60+ years old -- were lured into this particular cult when we were of an age that typically sees individuals first establishing their adult lives apart from their parents.
It is quite easy for some of us to look back on our lives lived over the last 40 years or so and recognize/acknowledge the truth of Skyrider's original post for this thread.
It's easy for me to see how Wierwille (and those who figured after he kicked the bucket that they could capitalize on what he started) exploited Jesus' words to cement a dependency that would allow them to make their livings off of the labor of their followers. Forsaking earthly family fosters emotional dependence on the cult, does it not? After all, humans are social animals. We all crave a sense of belonging.
Heck, some -- especially those who have for decades exploited mass media (televangelists) -- or even Mega-church pastors to become (filthy) rich.
I wonder, how many millions of dollars does TWI have socked away for rainy days at present? No wonder Wierwille/TWI hammered on the duality of one's personal/family life.
Money, honey was what TWI wanted from its followers, that and control of their lives.
I thought of a few things on the duality of life – and thanks, Rocky for the link on duality.
My former ministry-mindset would NOT accommodate a duality – rather it focused on supposed dichotomies…conditioned for either-or thinking only. Which is an interesting tangent - it's a false dilemma (see link below) – when only two choices are presented – yet more exist- the type of thinking vp promoted tended to eliminate options and through deception and fallacies one was more or less “forced” to choose his way – because all other options according to him were insane, devilish, worldly, off the word, blah blah blah.
excuse the digression – but I thought it sort of goes with the duality thing.
We were taught that any financial hardships, failures, health issues, etc. were always our fault, we weren’t believing enough, we weren’t putting the word first, we weren’t abundant sharing enough, we weren’t speaking in tongues enough, blah blah blah. What was it with this insane obsession we could manipulate reality – if we would just knuckle down and do all those release-the-genie-in-the-bottle techniques.
We were not encouraged to embrace all of life (take the good with the bad) – but rather to ignore whatever aspects did not fit with TWI’s paradigm. If your spouse…friend…(whoever – you fill in the blank) doesn’t agree with what TWI says is “the word” – then they can take a hike. If you can’t think “the word” at your job – then get a new job.
I think embracing all of life is more realistic – to accept the duality of life - if I want to “own” all the good fortune that comes my way then I think it’s only fitting I should also “own” the unfortunate things that so often comes with the territory. I am so blessed – I am still so crazy about my wife Tonto – she is my inspiration. The odd thing about it is – if I hadn’t been in TWI and gone WOW I never would have met her….yes…it’s true…I married my WOW sister. Scandalous indeed!
However – this worked out pretty good – more than anything else or anyone else – she has been the most helpful to me with my ongoing “project” of unpacking/sorting/analyzing/dealing with the mental baggage of a lifetime (not just TWI stuff)…hopefully I’m becoming a better person or less of an a$$hole…six of one half a dozen of the other…ahhhh there’s that duality of life again…I’m a better person and less of an a$$hole.
Two years after we left TWI our daughter was born…with Down Syndrome. Again I am so thankful we had left TWI – I don’t think I would have handled parenthood properly if I was still in TWI. My concerns would probably have been more centered around myself – what is the matter with my believing? What will other believers think of me? Fortunately for my daughter, when I left TWI I had nothing BUT MY FAMILY to be concerned with. I’ve heard it said people with disabilities often draw out the best in others. I think that is true. Sometimes when we go somewhere like on a vacation or family outing I find myself wondering if I were her what would make this thing we’re doing more enjoyable. I’m really into developing empathy.
Tonto and I have been together for over 40 years. Through thick and thin….WOW, Family Corps….we’ve survived a cult dammit! Through financial hardships, ups and downs in our separate career paths, health issues, car wrecks, helped our son pursue a contractor trade, raising our daughter with a disability. There’s no way we’re giving up on each other now after all we’ve invested in our life together.
Wow T-Bone!! Great post! I am so happy that some good came out of your time with TWI. Some of us can say that our time spent in TWI, was great, while others wish they had never heard of it. I learned a lot from my time in TWI, but I paid a high price for it. I think if I had known 40 years ago, what I know about TWI, I would never have gotten involved with it.
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TLC
Follows around a poster (i.e., you?) trying to sow discord? You seem to think rather highly of yourself, sky, that such could be the case.
I'd actually thought you might let go of some of that chip on your shoulder after telling so much of your story here, sky. Seems maybe I got it wrong, though. Just about a year ago I wrote that "the Rev. label seemed to change people, but not for the better." Your response was to ask if I knew anything about you, and whether I always used such broad strokes in my judgments. My statement was actually based on general observations made from years ago while in TWI, from a time before you had your label, and wasn't put forth as being judgmental on anybody. I just couldn't think of any clear or specific exceptions to the statement (although, there may be some.) Having said that, and now realizing that yes, I did know you back then when you were on staff at HQ, and nothing I've read from you here puts you in the camp of being one of those exceptions.
If you suppose me to be some sort of "weirwille-apologist nostalgia underneath the cloak," how is it that I so easily recognize (and have stated, and have acknowledged) the train wreck effect that he and "the ministry" had on so many? Solely because I've steered clear of recounting much of the BS we've dealt with in times past? Why the big push for it? It no longer troubles me, and I've moved on. I'd think there would be more intrigue with the how to move on part. Seems maybe I got it wrong, though.
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Rocky
Sounds like you may not grasp basic communication concepts. You haven't objectively demonstrated that you didn't make a mistake when you wrote what you wrote. Until you get an acknowledgement from your intended audience that he/she/they understood the message as you intended to send it, you have no way to know if you made such a mistake or not.
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chockfull
TLC from my perception you spend a great deal more time defending your honor than you do on your original content posts. Like one paragraph sharing how you feel, and sometimes that can come off both vague and like you are judging others unlike you but I don't think that is your intent. Then someone feels criticized by what is at best a vague statement, and an argument ensues. Then you'll write 8 posts in defense of your vague honor.
Can you spend a little more time developing your original concept, about how seeing the vastness of life helped you overcome the hurts of the past and made them seem small or something? I kind of thought that was where you were going prior to the dust-up. That path to recovery is fine as well, just don't be critical of those who feel telling their stories helps them recover and make sense of things. I feel that way. Actually I feel I need different things at different times to recover, and if someone wants to judge me that's their issue.
I don't think you are a wierwille apologist and you've posted around here for longer than a drive-by.
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waysider
I think it's a bit unfair to say I'm not willing to look at it from another perspective. I did, after all, suggest you present one.
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Grace Valerie Claire
How dare he day something like that about Spec Ed kids?? I think LCM was a " freak of nature! ". That POS!
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outandabout
I remember LCM ranting about "Jerry's Kids" and how it was wrong to care about them because they weren't what God intended kids to be.
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Grace Valerie Claire
He was a POS!! What a loser! He might have felt differently if one of his kids, had been a Special Needs Child!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Money, honey was what TWI wanted from its followers, that and control of their lives.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Wow T-Bone!! Great post! I am so happy that some good came out of your time with TWI. Some of us can say that our time spent in TWI, was great, while others wish they had never heard of it. I learned a lot from my time in TWI, but I paid a high price for it. I think if I had known 40 years ago, what I know about TWI, I would never have gotten involved with it.
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