1989: On March 8, 1989 martindale and trustees officially declared "independence day at the way" and separated from chris geer. Cool. A couple additions and clarifications to your timeline. Honing in on more accuracy every iteration. :) Shortly after this date martindale sends out a loyalty letter to all active Corps demanding that they state their loyalty of who they stand with. 50% of 17th corps does not return in-residence after their interim year. This was the loyalty purge.
1990/91: martindale continues vehement opposition to geer and splinter group defectors. He teaches from Galatians....a two-tape series known as Galatians I and II, but later titled Leadership Tapes I & II. First released to corps, then all adv class grads. Later--if attending adv class, these were required prerequisites. Advanced Class Specials were held in Indianapolis [1990 & 91].....short drive for hq-personnel and support from Rome City & Indianapolis corps.
The Advanced Class Specials I remember were definitely preparations for filming the live DTA class. Why am I thinking that one of those was not in Indianapolis but in Dallas for GWIB that year? At any rate one of the live audience films was used for a class until the final DTA class production. As with every new class coming out, Corps is required to take first with mandatory participation and "old wineskin" purges for any not 100% gung ho. The DTA class was filmed with new production cameras at HQ in the auditorium in 1992. There was a live audience for this, but they were all silent. It was too hard for Loytoy to teach to a camera with no audience at that point. He overcame the need for a live audience filming the WAP class - there was no audience for that.
1992/93: Martindale taught live adv class at rome city.....mandatory requirement for all active corps and adv class grads to attend. This was a purge. Martindale was stepping forward to purge the old advanced class grads (wierwille allegiance) from the ranks. New syllabus, new nametag. New, improved Twi II. Rise and Expansion book was released in '93 and martindale was gaining confidence, once again. By the fall of 1993 (or Feb/Mar 1994).....all limb coordinators were to teach an R&E weekend (fri/sat/sun) seminar in their respective limbs.
1994/95: A series of purges, like waves slapping the rocky shores of an inlet bay........1) new adv class purge, 2) debt purge, 3) homo purge, 4) word over world purge, 5) full-time corps purge, 6) into the promised land purge, 7) wap class purge, 8) etc. Before the full-blown "1995 roa homo infiltration proclamation".....several corps and staff were caught "in the act" in homosexual relations: girl/girl and guy/guy. On corps nights, martindale called out these corps/staff and trashed their names across the airwaves.....giving them the bum's rush. The 1995 roa was first full-throated, open-exposure of this "whole ministry homo infiltration problem." And, as I've stated earlier....it gave martindale cover to cancel all future rock of ages......when corps went full-time after 1995 roa.
May 1994 "Get Out of Debt" Letter in Corps Document Files
July 1994 "War on Homosexuals" Letter from martindale
July 1994 "Dumping of Spouse Corps" Letter from martindale
All old twi-music tapes and teaching tapes from defector leaders are anathema. Need to be suspicious of anyone in twi who listens to this stuff and/or harbors attitudes for "old wineskins." Start confronting. If need be, bring 2-3 witnesses. If still unsuccessful, bring them to group confrontation. Purge the old-wineskin nostalgia.
1995: From September-December, these four months seemed like one year. The paper blizzard of faxes, mandates, updates, etc. was cranking up. The trustees and trunk office were totally ill-prepared for the onslaught. When martindale instigated the all-corps full-time policy coupled with wierwille's (illegal) need-basis staff-policy....the paper blizzard had major headwinds. The job description of field corps was not yet written. The trunk personnel were scrambling, caught between martindale pontificating and real-life corps situations. EVERY CORPS ACTION had to examined under the microscope of being a productive/unproductive, necessary/unnecessary, etc......with money, money, money at the basis of ever scrutinizing decision. Bottom line: How much did martindale trust corps leadership to wisely steward twi's funds?
This was the birthplace of "Vision and Direction - the Oxymoron". On my list of thread topics to start :) The Way has never trusted Corps leadership with funds. The fund limit approval levels for Petty Cash expenditures were $100 at the Limb level, $300 at the Region level, $500 at the Trunk level, then needs BOT approval. Can't even rent a hall for a meeting without the dummies involved. Unless it's the library or fire station - free. Another way to control expenses - increase the red tape necessary to approve them.
The full-time corps revelation....er, experiment [August 1995--October 1998] was a pivotal episode of martindale's tenure. A whole chapter could be written on its implementation, adaptation, regulation, subordination and institutionalization. The pillar that wierwille constructed, the needs-basis policy.....had a MAJOR CRACK going down thru the center of it. On the field, what constitutes a need? Every time a corps person decided to drive his/her car for witnessing.....that was an expense. Extra air conditioning at limb/branch home for meetings/classes.....higher expense. Your teenage kid needs braces......that's a need, right? The list is endless.
What all this full-time corps policy exposed was........twi hierarchy was/is a non-factor unless they SUCK OFF THE ABS FOR EVERYTHING. A small minority at headquarters governs,....er, manipulates the followers to separate them year-after-year from their hard-earned money. The spiritual mandates are nothing but a ruse.
1996: Martindale records The Way of Abundance and Power class (WAP).....the foundational class. Red syllabus. Later, a systematic running of these new classes for every active follower. If one didn't take this new class, he was not considered to be involved with twi.....pfal was old wineskin. With every new class, the pattern was: Corps takes it first - they are all full-time anyway so they are tasked with martindale mandates. Limb coordinators run the classes. then they run it for grads. Then they run it for new students. With each running of the class offers the opportunity for more "old wineskin" purging at every level.
1997: Martindale records The Way of Abundance and Power intermediate class. Same pattern....everyone in twi must take it to update status and involvement. Systematically run throughout the usa.
1997 "Gift Policy for Corps" Letter from hq
March 1997 "Dangers of Bribery" Letter from martindale
September 1997 "Vision and Direction" Policy
1998: Martindale records The Way of Abundance and Power advanced class. The series is complete. Big fanfare and celebration for martindale teaching this series and completing the work. This wap-series is the new standard in twi. Each limb had to structure 4 separate weekends to run this adv class on the field. Major work and involvement......trunk/region/limb. Dress code. Break out groups to absorb info. Class picture. Thank you card sent to martindale.
Then, in June at headquarters.......the sexcapade that involved in-residence corps and martindale ensued at the advanced class. Sexual favors at 1998 Adv Class
Nothing can encapsulate this era without spotlighting the martindale's "revelation" claim.......that all active field corps be full-time ministers, salaried by twi. Those 36-months (3 years).......seemed like every month martindale had us chasing something else, much like a cat is trying to chase down a darting laser beam from a small flashlight.
The paper blizzard....as I've often referred to, was the faxes, memos, updates, reports, guidelines, policies, and the reporting back to limb/region/trunk respectively. Listed below is a sample of that:
.......all the corps were inundated with reporting back to twi leadership. I tend to believe that the trunk office issued this paper blizzard to appease martinfail's screaming episodes and micromanaged leadership style. Quite obvious to me.....martinfail didn't trust the corps to do their ministerial duties.
The paperwork was multi-faceted. Branch guys reported to the limb, the limb to region, the region to trunk, the trunk to bot. The following are some of the reports that I recall:
--Time-Analysis Report....each week, this report was a projected schedule of the corps person's week detailing 6am - 11pm in 30-minute time slots. After about one year, lcm instructed region & limb guys to scrutinize these reports and strongly recommend changes (each week).
--Witnessing Report....each week, this report was a detailed analysis of how many in your area went witnessing, the number of contacts, the number of follow-ups, the number who attended fellowships as a result, the number who signed up for WAP, etc.
--Petty Cash Report....each branch, limb and region were allocated a level of petty cash. Branch corps, generally, consisted of two or three fellowships and didn't utilze petty cash reports except for times when lcm designated 8 consecutive public/formal branch meetings during the videotaping of WAP. All expenses over $100 had to be cleared by the region guy. The region guy could spend up to $300 before the trunk got involved.
--Yearly Budget Reports....this report had to be cleared through twi's personnel department. With some 600+ corps/families on payroll, this was a monumental task to sort thru the "needs" of every corps family, every situation. Some parents had a child in a musical instrument class, or a karate class, or a voice lessons class, etc. Martindale blasted the corps on a corps meeting for spending "excess money" on their children.
--[Note: Pet policies, gift-giving policies, pregnancy policies, traveling policies, cable tv policies, etc......these came into play as the mountain of corps expenses soared far beyond anything martindale had foreseen.]
--Monthly Progress Report....(whatever it was called??) detailed each branch's progress on class sign-ups (fnd, int, ac, etc). Month after month, it seemed like there were always goose eggs (zeros) in the blanks.
--Trunk Faxes.....reporting back on specific policies or corps meeting assignments was common. The corps were responsible to listen to lcm's sts tape on tuesday or early wednesday each week BEFORE the corps phone hookup. Trunk faxes were common and demanded a quick response. Sometimes, corps would be up until midnight to meet the fax deadline.
--Greetings Faxed to Trunk....as the paper-insantiy escalated, the corps seemed to be competing as to who could send in the most heartfelt greeting for twi's anniversary, for thanksgiving, for twi's holiday party, for the new year's, etc.
--Thank You Cards.....it became mandatory for each branch, each area to send a unique, handmade, personalized card to lcm after each WAP class. Every student was to sign the card and detail what blessed them specifically in the class.
Those who had bigger branches, bigger limbs, bigger regions had MORE paperwork to do. It wasn't any secret why MANY region couples had no kids. No time.
There were more reports, but I think you get the gist of it. I know lots of people criticize their corps leadership, but from one who was in the midst of this paper blizzard.....it was one hell of a ride!
Last night, I watched the 3rd episode of Leah Remini's six-part documentary of scientology. Time and again, she and others attempt to explain the steps and process of how one is indoctrinated into a cult. Leah spent 35 years in that totalitarian cult-world and wants to unravel....and WARN.....others from falling captive to their trappings. Along with "the good" that is taught.......the trappings are set to hinder you from escape.
The following link delves into the trappings and the purges:
The martindale-led era was inundated with a series of purges. I seriously doubt that there's been a complete listing of the purge-onslaughts......
the loyalty purge
the Galatian tapes
martindale adv class purge
the homo purge
unproductive/harassing/evil purge
the debt purge
corps spouse purge
full-time corps purge
bridge to the promise land purge
word is over the world purge
new wap-class series purge
prevailing word purge
Along the way......if you failed to measure up and were "purged from the ranks" you would be assigned to a probationary period. If you repented of your failings/sins, and obeyed the systematic monitoring of your leadership......then, after a designated period of time, would be reinstated. Martindale and his lieutenants had the power to confront, slander, smear any corps person that, they felt, needed reprimanding......it made for good corps night smear-fests. Thru the years, several region men were confronted and "had their ears notched" by martindale.......before prostrating themselves before him and allowed back into the camp.
Just like scientology, twi was utilizing the same tactics.
As a limb coordinator, my daily schedule started around 5:30am. Endeavoring to spend an hour in the scriptures and prayer to start my day was my routine. Most often, I would simply read and meditate on those scriptures that, I believed, were touchstones to love, compassion, and giving to others. No......I didn't follow any study script or anal "lift list" prayer listing from twi.......I despised the creeping micromanagement even during the wierwille era.
But........getting faxes at 2 o'clock in the morning was the beginning of the end, for me. No empathy. No concern from the spiritual honchos.
Insanity on steroids........
On 12/13/2016 at 7:33 PM, skyrider said:
Yeah.......2am faxes belching out mandates from hq.
Think about that for a minute.......faxes going off in the middle of the night and jolted out of bed. After a few times, I expressed my anguish "what-the-hell-are-they-thinking" disapproval in an acceptable tone to my region coordinator. He said.......the trunk office was so overwhelmed throughout the day that the receptionist/bless patrol/dispatch personnel [who had lots of down-time in the wee hours of the morning] were tasked with sending out these faxes to the limbs.
In other words.....NO ONE AT HQ gave a fricckin' concern about our lives, our schedule, our sleep, our wives/children sleeping. Twi hq was dead, spiritually, morally, ethically.......DEAD. The trunk personnel were dead to me. They did NOT have an ounce of concern that this "might" be an inconvenience? An annoyance?
Assuming that the tables were turned and a fax machine was near martindale's bedroom in 1996......what if I sent a belching fax to Rev. L. Craig Martindale at 2 o'clock in the morning? Wanna bet that heads would have rolled for THAT BONEHEADED DECISION?
Those of you numbnuts who were at the trunk.....fort, rupp, staley, idiots......had the cognition brainwaves of a bag of hammers.
Anyone who is interested in exploring the martindale era......should spend 4 hours reading thru the document files. Paul All3n, on Waydale, was on an 18-hour a day mission to "crash and burn" twi and martindale......hence, way-dale. All of these letters, policies and mandates were at his fingertips.......he was the point of the spear that was thrust into the belly of the beast.
If you read these documents.......
WARNING: The words cannot be unread......the visual imagery cannot be unseen.
It took Paul All3n and Waydale to blow the lid off martindale's predatory world. Even the 1998 advanced class sexcapade did NOT inflict enough damage to stop or disrupt martindale's sexual predation. Not Rosalie. Not Donna. Not John Reynolds. Not John Linder. Not Wayne Cl-app. Seemingly, everyone (that knew secrets) at the top-tier levels of twi was turning a blind eye to martindale's roaming sexual appetite.
.....ugh, computer/power freeze. Lost most of post.
It took Paul All3n and Waydale to blow the lid off martindale's predatory world. Even the 1998 advanced class sexcapade did NOT inflict enough damage to stop or disrupt martindale's sexual predation. Not Rosalie. Not Donna. Not John Reynolds. Not John Linder. Not Wayne Cl-app. Seemingly, everyone (that knew secrets) at the top-tier levels of twi was turning a blind eye to martindale's roaming sexual appetite.
The sex and "adultery" was STILL deeply rooted at the way international..........until All3n/Waydale and lawsuits.
There are plenty of places to start, but I think I'll begin with that particular event. It is pretty easy to fill in the history when and where it's needed.
It was common practice to bring the Corps in at an advanced class to assist with a number of things, particularly the branch meetings. The particular people mentioned by Skyrider were my kids, my son and his wife.....and another man. This other man was also married, but unlike my kids, he had children so it was decided he would go to hq and his wife would stay at Gunnison with the children.
My DIL (daughter-in-law) had been in loy's stable for quite some time by this point in time - - and apparently he'd called for her several times already during the week or 10 days that they had been at hq. The other man - - a Corp buddy-brother had gotten wind of my DIL's special "calling" and apparently approached her also for "relief" as he had been without his own wife for 10 days or so....and....it was up to her to "take care of the man (men) of god" donchaknow! Something happened and they were caught. My son blew his stack! She was serving everybody but him, and he was outraged because he knew it was just plain wrong.
These 3 parties were brought together into loy's office together with Rev. wc and head of safety....Mr. Linder. (Hello mister linder ). There was a revolver on loy's desk and mister linder ( ) opened his jacket coat to reveal his loaded shoulder holster.
There were many things said...but my son told me that he grew sicker and sicker (in his spiritual gut) and needed to set things to rights. So according to him, he pounded his own fist down on loy's desk and "ripped him a new one".
Rev wc was shocked and saddened. He called loy out because several years prior to this incident, loy had apparently promised him (Rev wc) that these sexploits had ended and would be no more....but obviously it wasn't so. My son grew sicker....now realizing for the first time that everything he had gotten wind of previously was totally true.
Even after all this - - loy begged them to stay.....he offered to change their interim assignment from Way Disciple to remaining at HQ to coordinate the Way Disciple program. My DIL begged my son to agree so they could stay (and she could remain Most Favored Female) but this required that my son give up his exclusive claim on his own wife and "join in" claiming for himself any one of the upper echelon women for himself. Obviously my son said "No" and then there was nothing to be done.
They were dismissed to their quarters to pack their belongings and escorted by Safety (with a pistol on the front seat of the car) to the nearest airport (I don't remember anymore which one it was) and put up in a motel nearby until the following morning's flight home (to New Jersey)
The other young man was put on a Greyhound bus and sent local back to Gunnison. They could have sent him express for the bulk of the distance but decided not to because this way they bought themselves plenty of time to get to his wife, squirrel her away to CO limb hdq where they could fill her head with all kinds of untruths so that they could retain her (and their children) in "the program".
I like the topical threads that span time. They are interesting to read all in a package.
I'll fill in some detail too from my perspective more over time.
One of my greatest fears during that time: thermal.........facsimile.............paper. It was a nightmare. You couldn't work with it. It didn't fit into notebooks. It curled up. After a year it faded to be unrecognizable. It was just very very troublesome. They didn't have the all-in-ones like today - receive a fax, just print it out on normal paper. Well, the Regions did. And our buddy B1ll. But those fax machines were much more expensive than the $40 models the Corps had to pick up from Sams club to be approved for petty cash or sometimes not.
We would travel to Kinkos regularly just to reprint the stupid f'ing memos on thermal facsimile paper to normal printer paper. Hey but you can log that as office time.
And also, since the "corporate culture" from the top was being set at 110 decibels, he/she who were most spiritual as good little growing sycophants would imitate that. You didn't get your fax response back in on time? Scream. Your memo you got has a red line across it and is cut off halfway through? Your fault for running out of paper. Scream.
I kind of wonder how I tolerated all that. I guess I just kind of developed an insensitivity to volume. I related it to a tough coach I had growing up as a kid who took us places we wouldn't have gone ourselves, and thus could tune a good deal of it out. I remember in-residence one lady screaming at me at the top of her lungs, a Corpse Coord. wife. I remember it was really hard for me to focus on the words she was saying. It was so much easier just to be entertained by the different shades of red and purple her face was turning. that is definitely red. now, it's taking on a magenta hue. it's definitely purple now. i really hope we don't progress to the blue stage, because then I would really be fearful of the poor woman collapsing on the floor for lack of oxygen.
The paper blizzard....as I've often referred to, was the faxes, memos, updates, reports, guidelines, policies, and the reporting back to limb/region/trunk respectively. Listed below is a sample of that:
.......all the corps were inundated with reporting back to twi leadership. I tend to believe that the trunk office issued this paper blizzard to appease martindale's screaming episodes and micromanaged leadership style. Quite obvious to me.....martindale didn't trust the corps to do their ministerial duties.
Reporting back became one of martindale's constant-drumbeat mandates during those 1993---> corps meetings. When leadership gave a directive, an order......then, follow-up and report back, damnit. The heavy-handed oppression was coupled with micromanagement submission. Why?
Reporting back kept the corps in subservient obedience......closely tethered.
Authoritarian leaders have a pathological need for control.
Martindale did NOT trust the corps to lead and/or serve.
All 5 corps principles are slick-sales marketing.
Strong leaders know how to select and train apprentices......and successful leaders delegate.
During my 24-year tenure in twi, the corps program is not a leadership program.......it's a followship program. Wierwille instilled a "training program" that was the antithesis of his tweaked corps poem. The corps program was suffocating, stifling, oppressive and ensnaring. Gag me that that ".....deeply springing powers of a believer" crap. Sheesh. After watching that latest scientology episode......I'd say that twi was its first cousin.
Twi never was a tree.....it was a pyramid. And, wierwille was buried in the tomb of rats.
Defining Moments in Time: I grew up on a wheat farm six miles from a small, rural town. Our farm house was small and my three brothers and I slept in the basement with concrete floors.......and the winters were bitterly cold. But life was good. My kindergarten class was in a country schoolhouse four miles northeast and grades k-8 numbered around 32 students. Yes, a country school house......and I chuckle to myself, "How old ARE you?" And, no......I didn't walk to school, barefoot. (haha) I still have a framed picture of those 32 students, with my three older brothers, from that little country schoolhouse. The next year my parents made the decision that we would start going to the public school in town, because the school bus drove right by our house each morning and studies, along with team sports, would help expand our growth.
Besides the wheat farming, we had corn and alfalfa to irrigate. I was nine years old when my dad thought I was ready to drive the tractor in the field, alone. The fact of the matter was largely due to size not age; when one foot could reach the clutch and the other foot the brake, I was "ready." But hey, I didn't mind.....it made me feel needed and raised my status with my older brothers. The irrigation of the corn and alfalfa took on whole different aspects to manage. For a number of years, we had some cattle and hundreds of sheep. I learned a lot about sheep that embedded deep impressions when, years later, I delved into the scriptures.
Life on the farm was a load of challenges and plenty of hard work, but it opened up whole chapters of fond memories of wholesome living. Along with school activities and team sports (football, basketball, golf and track), we were involved in 4-H and I snagged several blue/purple ribbons for my black angus heifers. As farm kids go, we had our share of B-B guns and birdshot to ward off pesky sparrows and vermin attempting to nestle into many of the outbuildings. The first weekend of November each year marked the opening season for pheasant hunting......and, for years, we had relatives who came from out-of-state to join us. Later in life, my dad and one brother spent ten years of time, effort and investment raising 1,000 pheasant and 1,000 quail chicks, each year, [and 80 acres to habitat preservation] and turned them loose in the county....all on his own dime, anonymously.
Growing up, we lived 22 miles from the largest lake in the state......so there was water skiing and fishing to be had. Of course, farm work was definitely six days a week, so this wasn't like weekend after weekend. There was work to be done......and my dad started his day, every day, at 4:30am. He did not look favorably on us boys if we were still in bed after 6am......"sleeping in" [anything after 6am] was cause for a stern look. Thinking back on those memories, I recall that phrase....."Tough times make for tough men." I suppose there is some truth to it.
With all our diligence and hard work, more prosperity followed......and years later, when all three brothers were off to college and beyond, I traded in my 350 Honda motorcycle for a new 900 Kawasaki [4 carburetors, 112mph in 1/4 mile]. Fast times.....and lots of high school dating. My senior year, our football team was #1 in the state in class C division football. An undefeated season. I played starting halfback on offense and defense. Life was good and fun and memorable. In the spring, I decided to go out for track....even though I'd been on the traveling golf squad my junior year. My track coach was thrilled, my golf coach shrugged. Amongst several events.....100 low-hurdles, 220 yd dash, long jump.....I found a place in the mile relay [each of the 4 guys runs a lap, 440 yards]. We broke the school record three times.....and came in 2nd in the state finals [a school record that held for 28 years].
The following year, I headed off to college......to major in business administration. I really enjoyed the marketing classes my second year, but also had this growing interest for spiritual/biblical truths.......and then, months later, a guy with a nametag who told me he was a "wow-ambassador." Two months later I took pfal.......and repeated pfal class twice more. After the spring semester ended, I dropped out of college........to go WOW.
In many way, my recruitment was similar to Charlene's account in Undertow.......change the names, locations, dates......but the recruitment tactics and deceptive marketing of pfal/twi was the same. I was led to believe in "biblical research" and that by God's grace, I could walk circumspectly with that Christ-within spirit. So much of twi's ploy has a basis of truth.......but the "bait and switch" is hidden from view. Systematic and subtle indoctrination. I, too, could write a book......but it would have much of the same content, same guilt/shame/fear cult tactics, warnings from family/friends, conscious and subconscious red-flag warnings, and escaping from deceptive cult.
One of the things that I've always contemplated is.......leaving twi is like jumping off a moving train. You know, at some point, that you don't want to go to that destination [an idolatrous end]. You want off.....but you also have a wife and kids in tow. Yeah, I'm ready......are you? Uh oh, the wife is not sure......now what? You can't voice your plans to jump, because others on the train will tell their supervisors....and confrontation will mount from all sides. All those inter-personal relationships.....your "friends" and co-workers, your wife's, your children (activities/friends/school)........when do you jump? Where is there a "soft landing?" Who will be hurt? How will life change?
Whenever wierwille would boast about twi/pfal.......it often, stirred up memories of my sports background. Whenever someone was inserted into a game, or hogged the ball and spotlight in a basketball game.....we had this term glory-grabber
Guess I've always had deeper roots and feel that my rural background defines who I am.........not some cult.
It was a detour, yes........but finding my way back to who I really am was there all along.
When to Jump: By the Fall of 1993, martindale was back in charge of the train and throttling it forward. Not sure about the first corps night when martindale went ballistic on "homos in the corps and on staff"......but I think it was around Feb-Apr 1994 when the sh!t hit the fan. Martindale was naming names on corps night and giving specifics on where these individuals were "caught, doing the act." And, then.....martindale wrote that July 1994 which gave license for GENUINE SPIRITUAL SUSPICION.
"I taught recently here at Headquarters when we dismissed two people--one a Staff person and one a Corps person--that deep down in their heart they really wish that they could be homo again; but because the Word is so clear in the household, that spirit won't push them quite that far. That is why I've told our people here at International that no longer can we function on Dr. Wierwille's older standard that he told us Corps leadership years ago--that if we caught someone in the act, then it would be immediate dismissal--we can no longer wait for that kind of thing because the homo spirits in our midst are so subtle. Any GENUINE SPIRITUAL SUSPICION should be pursued by you.......[July 1994 letter]"
What about corps principle #1.....you know, that acquiring an in-depth spiritual perception? Martindale was NOW overruling wierwille's foundational corps principles (cough, cough) with a spiritual upgrade, Genuine Spiritual Suspicion. Really? Suspicion is now in the category of "walking by the spirit of God?" I was not buying it. The following month, at the roa......the northwest region coordinator pulled me aside and told me that an intermediate class grad was moving into my state, but be wary because thought the guy was, possibly, a homo. I challenged him on his assessment.....the conversation got testy.....and he abruptly said, "Well...he's coming to your state so he's your problem now." And, several months later.....the guy showed no signs, no desire of homo involvement or whatever. Gawd, the way martindale handled this whole subject was bizarre and asinine.
"I remember years ago Dr. Wierwille saying that if Dav1d Cra1ey had really taken a stand on homosexuality in his book (The Hope of Glory: In Search of the Light), we would not be having the rampant epidemic of homosexuality on the college campuses and in our country today."
At the time, I strongly refuted wierwille's accusation (in this letter)......and considered it bogus ever since. Why was wierwille NEVER held responsible for anything? Blame, blame, blame.......always deflecting "spiritual" responsibility. Always the corps' fault. What a bunch of bullsh!t.
Dav1d Cra1ey was my research advisor.....assisting me on my research paper. Don't know where he ever ended up, but I had nothing but admiration for his assistance and compassioned concern. I think he was the editor-in-chief over The Way Magazine at the time.
When it came to homosexuality, there actually were only a small number that would qualify. Most of this was spearheaded by J@net Myr@cle. Her "genuine spritual suspicion" along with a few others is what most others in the general population would term "gaydar". This indicates the propensity of a person to detect others with the same sex orientation because the person themselves has a same sex sexual orientation. Nowadays they have charts that help to explain all this sexual orientation and attraction stuff. I'm not sure I understand it all, but I like the fact that it preserves individual respect and identity.
The rest of what you had is more of what you would term "Imitated Redneck Okie Spiritual Suspicion" (IROSS) - accuracy level - way below 50%
What about stories of some of our Corps grads who had been delivered from that lifestyle when getting into the Word? They would never again experience life without IROSS. Many left just due to feeling ostracized due to persecution and false accusation.
Dav1d Cra1ey was my research advisor.....assisting me on my research paper. Don't know where he ever ended up, but I had nothing but admiration for his assistance and compassioned concern. I think he was the editor-in-chief over The Way Magazine at the time.
I understand he's on FB. He and I share 17 mutual friends.
I understand he's on FB. He and I share 17 mutual friends.
Thanks, Rocky......good to hear.
When I submitted my first draft to Dav1d Cra1ey......he wrote on the top of the page, "Unusually well written."
My research paper.......The Perfection of the Lord: Lovingkindness, Judgment and Righteousness
Jer. 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
Okay, I tried to ignore that comment. But it bugs the hell out of me. In other words, there's a huge amount of cognitive dissonance associated with the phrase, "Returned to former lifestyle." Also, who gives a crap what you've heard?
In instances like this, I immediately go, in my mind, to I Corinthians 2:11:
"For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
Be clear TLC, you aren't what bugs me. The statement you made bugs me.
First, neither you nor I are qualified to judge Craley about this or any other matter that would assume any knowledge of what goes on in his heart or mind.
Second, "former lifestyle" might seem like an innocuous phrase, but it smacks of judgment. Rather than get into a doctrinal p1ssing contest, I'll just say that I believe Wierwille's understanding of homosexuality, homosexual people AND what the bottom line of what the bible has to say about the subject was incomplete.
As far as we know, Craley may have decided that to his own self he must be true. It's not something we are qualified to assess, whether it be Cra1ey, Myrac1e or even RFR.
The rest of what you had is more of what you would term "Imitated Redneck Okie Spiritual Suspicion" (IROSS) - accuracy level - way below 50%
Chockfull.......yeah, all that "suspicion jargon" was totally whacked. To me, that stuff reinforced my suspicion of martindale and stooges at headquarters......realizing that this mumbo-jumbo was adding to the lexicon of insanity. Yep, that July 1994 letter only solidified my resolve to "jump off this moving train".........thankfully, being 900 miles from hq-insanity gave me enough leeway from the constant monitoring. Sure, they could send out those faxes......but the trunk was dead to me, and I was standing out on a limb. Holy crap. LOL
Those two years, 1994 and 1995.......I scheduled our annual limb meeting at a nearby lake. Since we had two guys in the state who had access to ski boats, we took advantage of this opportunity to break from the indoor/usher/seated setting. I envisioned the whole day as "fellowship" -- fun, laughter, children with parents having fun, beach volleyball, water skiing, grilling out, and just living life.....not twi's warped version of it. Of course, I sorta had to fudge my report back to the region guy......but I was in no mood to explain to him my style of "self-governing" in my state.
Screw 'em.....if they were to find out. I was at the point where I really didn't care. If they pushed me off the train, so be it......I was planning to jump anyways. Although I preferred to exit on my terms.....my mind was set. It was only a matter of time.
That whole "genuine spiritual suspicion" crap never computed to my brain cells. Clearly, there was NO biblical basis for it. How do you justify "suspicion?" Is it a manifestation? Should it be added to the other fruit of the spirit......love, joy, peace, longsuffering, suspicion (ppffffttt).
"I remember years ago Dr. Wierwille saying that if Dav1d Cra1ey had really taken a stand on homosexuality in his book (The Hope of Glory: In Search of the Light), we would not be having the rampant epidemic of homosexuality on the college campuses and in our country today."
The depth of grandiose-stupidity in THAT ONE STATEMENT........should have cancelled wierwille's mog-card and stopped his entrance into spiritual pontificating. OMG.....why the man just opened his mouth and removed all doubt.
It was THIS type of stuff that sounded like fingers on a chalkboard.......eeeeek.
One man writing a book......would have CHANGED the whole country???? Heck, wierwille spent a lifetime and is an unknown. Rather than laud his efforts and his Lifelines........many of us, here at Greasespot Café, could easily put together wierwille's WTF-Lines.
Yes, between the vicster and da forehead, these guys truly missed their calling. I mean they should have been the head of the Westboro Baptist church denomination, with all that hate.
Rocky one of the things I struggle with talking about this period of time is all that hate against those who have a little different makeup with respect to identity and attraction. Whatever answers people think they are getting from scriptures on this topic, I guarantee you that God is not hate. Just the opposite, and the idea you are "loving" somebody by taking a stand and hating them for their own good is disingenuous at best and sheer hypocrisy at worst. From my perspective, if Cra1ey did return to his former lifestyle whatever that is (and I have no knowledge of what it is), found love and support and recovered from the insidious cult that is the Way, more power to him.
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higherground30
Skyrider Thank you very much for sharing these hardhitting personal life stories. Im ready to give my background in the next couple of days in the new member area Oh and btw Happy new year
skyrider
The Pregnancy Policy What kind of board of directors legislates pregnancy policy to their employees? Forget diving into all the details......what gives them the right to insert when a couple s
potato
skyrider, thanks for sharing all of this. 1989 was the year TWI sucked me in, although I'd taken PFAL in 1985. I was advanced class grad twice over by mid-90s, and the later 90s were such a nightmare.
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skyrider
Updates added to timeline
1989: On March 8, 1989 martindale and trustees officially declared "independence day at the way" and separated from chris geer. Cool. A couple additions and clarifications to your timeline. Honing in on more accuracy every iteration. :) Shortly after this date martindale sends out a loyalty letter to all active Corps demanding that they state their loyalty of who they stand with. 50% of 17th corps does not return in-residence after their interim year. This was the loyalty purge.
The Advanced Class Specials I remember were definitely preparations for filming the live DTA class. Why am I thinking that one of those was not in Indianapolis but in Dallas for GWIB that year? At any rate one of the live audience films was used for a class until the final DTA class production. As with every new class coming out, Corps is required to take first with mandatory participation and "old wineskin" purges for any not 100% gung ho. The DTA class was filmed with new production cameras at HQ in the auditorium in 1992. There was a live audience for this, but they were all silent. It was too hard for Loytoy to teach to a camera with no audience at that point. He overcame the need for a live audience filming the WAP class - there was no audience for that.
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skyrider
Nothing can encapsulate this era without spotlighting the martindale's "revelation" claim.......that all active field corps be full-time ministers, salaried by twi. Those 36-months (3 years).......seemed like every month martindale had us chasing something else, much like a cat is trying to chase down a darting laser beam from a small flashlight.
The paper blizzard....as I've often referred to, was the faxes, memos, updates, reports, guidelines, policies, and the reporting back to limb/region/trunk respectively. Listed below is a sample of that:
1995 full-time corps "revelation"
.......all the corps were inundated with reporting back to twi leadership. I tend to believe that the trunk office issued this paper blizzard to appease martinfail's screaming episodes and micromanaged leadership style. Quite obvious to me.....martinfail didn't trust the corps to do their ministerial duties.
The paperwork was multi-faceted. Branch guys reported to the limb, the limb to region, the region to trunk, the trunk to bot. The following are some of the reports that I recall:
--Time-Analysis Report....each week, this report was a projected schedule of the corps person's week detailing 6am - 11pm in 30-minute time slots. After about one year, lcm instructed region & limb guys to scrutinize these reports and strongly recommend changes (each week).
--Witnessing Report....each week, this report was a detailed analysis of how many in your area went witnessing, the number of contacts, the number of follow-ups, the number who attended fellowships as a result, the number who signed up for WAP, etc.
--Petty Cash Report....each branch, limb and region were allocated a level of petty cash. Branch corps, generally, consisted of two or three fellowships and didn't utilze petty cash reports except for times when lcm designated 8 consecutive public/formal branch meetings during the videotaping of WAP. All expenses over $100 had to be cleared by the region guy. The region guy could spend up to $300 before the trunk got involved.
--Yearly Budget Reports....this report had to be cleared through twi's personnel department. With some 600+ corps/families on payroll, this was a monumental task to sort thru the "needs" of every corps family, every situation. Some parents had a child in a musical instrument class, or a karate class, or a voice lessons class, etc. Martindale blasted the corps on a corps meeting for spending "excess money" on their children.
--[Note: Pet policies, gift-giving policies, pregnancy policies, traveling policies, cable tv policies, etc......these came into play as the mountain of corps expenses soared far beyond anything martindale had foreseen.]
--Monthly Progress Report....(whatever it was called??) detailed each branch's progress on class sign-ups (fnd, int, ac, etc). Month after month, it seemed like there were always goose eggs (zeros) in the blanks.
--Trunk Faxes.....reporting back on specific policies or corps meeting assignments was common. The corps were responsible to listen to lcm's sts tape on tuesday or early wednesday each week BEFORE the corps phone hookup. Trunk faxes were common and demanded a quick response. Sometimes, corps would be up until midnight to meet the fax deadline.
--Greetings Faxed to Trunk....as the paper-insantiy escalated, the corps seemed to be competing as to who could send in the most heartfelt greeting for twi's anniversary, for thanksgiving, for twi's holiday party, for the new year's, etc.
--Thank You Cards.....it became mandatory for each branch, each area to send a unique, handmade, personalized card to lcm after each WAP class. Every student was to sign the card and detail what blessed them specifically in the class.
Those who had bigger branches, bigger limbs, bigger regions had MORE paperwork to do. It wasn't any secret why MANY region couples had no kids. No time.
There were more reports, but I think you get the gist of it. I know lots of people criticize their corps leadership, but from one who was in the midst of this paper blizzard.....it was one hell of a ride!
.
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skyrider
Last night, I watched the 3rd episode of Leah Remini's six-part documentary of scientology. Time and again, she and others attempt to explain the steps and process of how one is indoctrinated into a cult. Leah spent 35 years in that totalitarian cult-world and wants to unravel....and WARN.....others from falling captive to their trappings. Along with "the good" that is taught.......the trappings are set to hinder you from escape.
The following link delves into the trappings and the purges:
A Series of Purges
The martindale-led era was inundated with a series of purges. I seriously doubt that there's been a complete listing of the purge-onslaughts......
Along the way......if you failed to measure up and were "purged from the ranks" you would be assigned to a probationary period. If you repented of your failings/sins, and obeyed the systematic monitoring of your leadership......then, after a designated period of time, would be reinstated. Martindale and his lieutenants had the power to confront, slander, smear any corps person that, they felt, needed reprimanding......it made for good corps night smear-fests. Thru the years, several region men were confronted and "had their ears notched" by martindale.......before prostrating themselves before him and allowed back into the camp.
Just like scientology, twi was utilizing the same tactics.
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skyrider
As a limb coordinator, my daily schedule started around 5:30am. Endeavoring to spend an hour in the scriptures and prayer to start my day was my routine. Most often, I would simply read and meditate on those scriptures that, I believed, were touchstones to love, compassion, and giving to others. No......I didn't follow any study script or anal "lift list" prayer listing from twi.......I despised the creeping micromanagement even during the wierwille era.
But........getting faxes at 2 o'clock in the morning was the beginning of the end, for me. No empathy. No concern from the spiritual honchos.
Insanity on steroids........
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skyrider
Anyone who is interested in exploring the martindale era......should spend 4 hours reading thru the document files. Paul All3n, on Waydale, was on an 18-hour a day mission to "crash and burn" twi and martindale......hence, way-dale. All of these letters, policies and mandates were at his fingertips.......he was the point of the spear that was thrust into the belly of the beast.
If you read these documents.......
WARNING: The words cannot be unread......the visual imagery cannot be unseen.
Document Files
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skyrider
It took Paul All3n and Waydale to blow the lid off martindale's predatory world. Even the 1998 advanced class sexcapade did NOT inflict enough damage to stop or disrupt martindale's sexual predation. Not Rosalie. Not Donna. Not John Reynolds. Not John Linder. Not Wayne Cl-app. Seemingly, everyone (that knew secrets) at the top-tier levels of twi was turning a blind eye to martindale's roaming sexual appetite.
.....ugh, computer/power freeze. Lost most of post.
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skyrider
Edit....
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skyrider
It took Paul All3n and Waydale to blow the lid off martindale's predatory world. Even the 1998 advanced class sexcapade did NOT inflict enough damage to stop or disrupt martindale's sexual predation. Not Rosalie. Not Donna. Not John Reynolds. Not John Linder. Not Wayne Cl-app. Seemingly, everyone (that knew secrets) at the top-tier levels of twi was turning a blind eye to martindale's roaming sexual appetite.
The sex and "adultery" was STILL deeply rooted at the way international..........until All3n/Waydale and lawsuits.
BUT.......the 1998 advanced class sex scandal helped to open the doors for my exit.
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chockfull
I like the topical threads that span time. They are interesting to read all in a package.
I'll fill in some detail too from my perspective more over time.
One of my greatest fears during that time: thermal.........facsimile.............paper. It was a nightmare. You couldn't work with it. It didn't fit into notebooks. It curled up. After a year it faded to be unrecognizable. It was just very very troublesome. They didn't have the all-in-ones like today - receive a fax, just print it out on normal paper. Well, the Regions did. And our buddy B1ll. But those fax machines were much more expensive than the $40 models the Corps had to pick up from Sams club to be approved for petty cash or sometimes not.
We would travel to Kinkos regularly just to reprint the stupid f'ing memos on thermal facsimile paper to normal printer paper. Hey but you can log that as office time.
And also, since the "corporate culture" from the top was being set at 110 decibels, he/she who were most spiritual as good little growing sycophants would imitate that. You didn't get your fax response back in on time? Scream. Your memo you got has a red line across it and is cut off halfway through? Your fault for running out of paper. Scream.
I kind of wonder how I tolerated all that. I guess I just kind of developed an insensitivity to volume. I related it to a tough coach I had growing up as a kid who took us places we wouldn't have gone ourselves, and thus could tune a good deal of it out. I remember in-residence one lady screaming at me at the top of her lungs, a Corpse Coord. wife. I remember it was really hard for me to focus on the words she was saying. It was so much easier just to be entertained by the different shades of red and purple her face was turning. that is definitely red. now, it's taking on a magenta hue. it's definitely purple now. i really hope we don't progress to the blue stage, because then I would really be fearful of the poor woman collapsing on the floor for lack of oxygen.
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chockfull
One time, I counted all the faxes going in and out one weekend. There were 99.
It reminded me of this video which I watched to avoid becoming depressed:
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outandabout
Wow that's nuts. I'm glad I got out in 1988. Interesting though.
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skyrider
Reporting back became one of martindale's constant-drumbeat mandates during those 1993---> corps meetings. When leadership gave a directive, an order......then, follow-up and report back, damnit. The heavy-handed oppression was coupled with micromanagement submission. Why?
Strong leaders know how to select and train apprentices......and successful leaders delegate.
During my 24-year tenure in twi, the corps program is not a leadership program.......it's a followship program. Wierwille instilled a "training program" that was the antithesis of his tweaked corps poem. The corps program was suffocating, stifling, oppressive and ensnaring. Gag me that that ".....deeply springing powers of a believer" crap. Sheesh. After watching that latest scientology episode......I'd say that twi was its first cousin.
Twi never was a tree.....it was a pyramid. And, wierwille was buried in the tomb of rats.
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skyrider
Defining Moments in Time: I grew up on a wheat farm six miles from a small, rural town. Our farm house was small and my three brothers and I slept in the basement with concrete floors.......and the winters were bitterly cold. But life was good. My kindergarten class was in a country schoolhouse four miles northeast and grades k-8 numbered around 32 students. Yes, a country school house......and I chuckle to myself, "How old ARE you?" And, no......I didn't walk to school, barefoot. (haha) I still have a framed picture of those 32 students, with my three older brothers, from that little country schoolhouse. The next year my parents made the decision that we would start going to the public school in town, because the school bus drove right by our house each morning and studies, along with team sports, would help expand our growth.
Besides the wheat farming, we had corn and alfalfa to irrigate. I was nine years old when my dad thought I was ready to drive the tractor in the field, alone. The fact of the matter was largely due to size not age; when one foot could reach the clutch and the other foot the brake, I was "ready." But hey, I didn't mind.....it made me feel needed and raised my status with my older brothers. The irrigation of the corn and alfalfa took on whole different aspects to manage. For a number of years, we had some cattle and hundreds of sheep. I learned a lot about sheep that embedded deep impressions when, years later, I delved into the scriptures.
Life on the farm was a load of challenges and plenty of hard work, but it opened up whole chapters of fond memories of wholesome living. Along with school activities and team sports (football, basketball, golf and track), we were involved in 4-H and I snagged several blue/purple ribbons for my black angus heifers. As farm kids go, we had our share of B-B guns and birdshot to ward off pesky sparrows and vermin attempting to nestle into many of the outbuildings. The first weekend of November each year marked the opening season for pheasant hunting......and, for years, we had relatives who came from out-of-state to join us. Later in life, my dad and one brother spent ten years of time, effort and investment raising 1,000 pheasant and 1,000 quail chicks, each year, [and 80 acres to habitat preservation] and turned them loose in the county....all on his own dime, anonymously.
Growing up, we lived 22 miles from the largest lake in the state......so there was water skiing and fishing to be had. Of course, farm work was definitely six days a week, so this wasn't like weekend after weekend. There was work to be done......and my dad started his day, every day, at 4:30am. He did not look favorably on us boys if we were still in bed after 6am......"sleeping in" [anything after 6am] was cause for a stern look. Thinking back on those memories, I recall that phrase....."Tough times make for tough men." I suppose there is some truth to it.
With all our diligence and hard work, more prosperity followed......and years later, when all three brothers were off to college and beyond, I traded in my 350 Honda motorcycle for a new 900 Kawasaki [4 carburetors, 112mph in 1/4 mile]. Fast times.....and lots of high school dating. My senior year, our football team was #1 in the state in class C division football. An undefeated season. I played starting halfback on offense and defense. Life was good and fun and memorable. In the spring, I decided to go out for track....even though I'd been on the traveling golf squad my junior year. My track coach was thrilled, my golf coach shrugged. Amongst several events.....100 low-hurdles, 220 yd dash, long jump.....I found a place in the mile relay [each of the 4 guys runs a lap, 440 yards]. We broke the school record three times.....and came in 2nd in the state finals [a school record that held for 28 years].
The following year, I headed off to college......to major in business administration. I really enjoyed the marketing classes my second year, but also had this growing interest for spiritual/biblical truths.......and then, months later, a guy with a nametag who told me he was a "wow-ambassador." Two months later I took pfal.......and repeated pfal class twice more. After the spring semester ended, I dropped out of college........to go WOW.
In many way, my recruitment was similar to Charlene's account in Undertow.......change the names, locations, dates......but the recruitment tactics and deceptive marketing of pfal/twi was the same. I was led to believe in "biblical research" and that by God's grace, I could walk circumspectly with that Christ-within spirit. So much of twi's ploy has a basis of truth.......but the "bait and switch" is hidden from view. Systematic and subtle indoctrination. I, too, could write a book......but it would have much of the same content, same guilt/shame/fear cult tactics, warnings from family/friends, conscious and subconscious red-flag warnings, and escaping from deceptive cult.
One of the things that I've always contemplated is.......leaving twi is like jumping off a moving train. You know, at some point, that you don't want to go to that destination [an idolatrous end]. You want off.....but you also have a wife and kids in tow. Yeah, I'm ready......are you? Uh oh, the wife is not sure......now what? You can't voice your plans to jump, because others on the train will tell their supervisors....and confrontation will mount from all sides. All those inter-personal relationships.....your "friends" and co-workers, your wife's, your children (activities/friends/school)........when do you jump? Where is there a "soft landing?" Who will be hurt? How will life change?
Maybe, I'll write a book entitled, "Just Jump"
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skyrider
Life was good BEFORE twi.......
Whenever wierwille would boast about twi/pfal.......it often, stirred up memories of my sports background. Whenever someone was inserted into a game, or hogged the ball and spotlight in a basketball game.....we had this term glory-grabber
Guess I've always had deeper roots and feel that my rural background defines who I am.........not some cult.
It was a detour, yes........but finding my way back to who I really am was there all along.
.
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Lanikaigal
One of MANY great lines in your posts! Thanks. : )
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skyrider
When to Jump: By the Fall of 1993, martindale was back in charge of the train and throttling it forward. Not sure about the first corps night when martindale went ballistic on "homos in the corps and on staff"......but I think it was around Feb-Apr 1994 when the sh!t hit the fan. Martindale was naming names on corps night and giving specifics on where these individuals were "caught, doing the act." And, then.....martindale wrote that July 1994 which gave license for GENUINE SPIRITUAL SUSPICION.
What about corps principle #1.....you know, that acquiring an in-depth spiritual perception? Martindale was NOW overruling wierwille's foundational corps principles (cough, cough) with a spiritual upgrade, Genuine Spiritual Suspicion. Really? Suspicion is now in the category of "walking by the spirit of God?" I was not buying it. The following month, at the roa......the northwest region coordinator pulled me aside and told me that an intermediate class grad was moving into my state, but be wary because thought the guy was, possibly, a homo. I challenged him on his assessment.....the conversation got testy.....and he abruptly said, "Well...he's coming to your state so he's your problem now." And, several months later.....the guy showed no signs, no desire of homo involvement or whatever. Gawd, the way martindale handled this whole subject was bizarre and asinine.
At the time, I strongly refuted wierwille's accusation (in this letter)......and considered it bogus ever since. Why was wierwille NEVER held responsible for anything? Blame, blame, blame.......always deflecting "spiritual" responsibility. Always the corps' fault. What a bunch of bullsh!t.
Dav1d Cra1ey was my research advisor.....assisting me on my research paper. Don't know where he ever ended up, but I had nothing but admiration for his assistance and compassioned concern. I think he was the editor-in-chief over The Way Magazine at the time.
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chockfull
Genuine Spiritual Suspicion
When it came to homosexuality, there actually were only a small number that would qualify. Most of this was spearheaded by J@net Myr@cle. Her "genuine spritual suspicion" along with a few others is what most others in the general population would term "gaydar". This indicates the propensity of a person to detect others with the same sex orientation because the person themselves has a same sex sexual orientation. Nowadays they have charts that help to explain all this sexual orientation and attraction stuff. I'm not sure I understand it all, but I like the fact that it preserves individual respect and identity.
The rest of what you had is more of what you would term "Imitated Redneck Okie Spiritual Suspicion" (IROSS) - accuracy level - way below 50%
What about stories of some of our Corps grads who had been delivered from that lifestyle when getting into the Word? They would never again experience life without IROSS. Many left just due to feeling ostracized due to persecution and false accusation.
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TLC
Returned to former lifestyle, from what I heard.
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Rocky
I understand he's on FB. He and I share 17 mutual friends.
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skyrider
Thanks, Rocky......good to hear.
When I submitted my first draft to Dav1d Cra1ey......he wrote on the top of the page, "Unusually well written."
My research paper.......The Perfection of the Lord: Lovingkindness, Judgment and Righteousness
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Rocky
Okay, I tried to ignore that comment. But it bugs the hell out of me. In other words, there's a huge amount of cognitive dissonance associated with the phrase, "Returned to former lifestyle." Also, who gives a crap what you've heard?
In instances like this, I immediately go, in my mind, to I Corinthians 2:11:
"For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
Be clear TLC, you aren't what bugs me. The statement you made bugs me.
First, neither you nor I are qualified to judge Craley about this or any other matter that would assume any knowledge of what goes on in his heart or mind.
Second, "former lifestyle" might seem like an innocuous phrase, but it smacks of judgment. Rather than get into a doctrinal p1ssing contest, I'll just say that I believe Wierwille's understanding of homosexuality, homosexual people AND what the bottom line of what the bible has to say about the subject was incomplete.
As far as we know, Craley may have decided that to his own self he must be true. It's not something we are qualified to assess, whether it be Cra1ey, Myrac1e or even RFR.
We have plenty of other reasons to scorn RFR.
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skyrider
Chockfull.......yeah, all that "suspicion jargon" was totally whacked. To me, that stuff reinforced my suspicion of martindale and stooges at headquarters......realizing that this mumbo-jumbo was adding to the lexicon of insanity. Yep, that July 1994 letter only solidified my resolve to "jump off this moving train".........thankfully, being 900 miles from hq-insanity gave me enough leeway from the constant monitoring. Sure, they could send out those faxes......but the trunk was dead to me, and I was standing out on a limb. Holy crap. LOL
Those two years, 1994 and 1995.......I scheduled our annual limb meeting at a nearby lake. Since we had two guys in the state who had access to ski boats, we took advantage of this opportunity to break from the indoor/usher/seated setting. I envisioned the whole day as "fellowship" -- fun, laughter, children with parents having fun, beach volleyball, water skiing, grilling out, and just living life.....not twi's warped version of it. Of course, I sorta had to fudge my report back to the region guy......but I was in no mood to explain to him my style of "self-governing" in my state.
Screw 'em.....if they were to find out. I was at the point where I really didn't care. If they pushed me off the train, so be it......I was planning to jump anyways. Although I preferred to exit on my terms.....my mind was set. It was only a matter of time.
That whole "genuine spiritual suspicion" crap never computed to my brain cells. Clearly, there was NO biblical basis for it. How do you justify "suspicion?" Is it a manifestation? Should it be added to the other fruit of the spirit......love, joy, peace, longsuffering, suspicion (ppffffttt).
Insanity on steroids was being injected.......
.
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skyrider
The depth of grandiose-stupidity in THAT ONE STATEMENT........should have cancelled wierwille's mog-card and stopped his entrance into spiritual pontificating. OMG.....why the man just opened his mouth and removed all doubt.
It was THIS type of stuff that sounded like fingers on a chalkboard.......eeeeek.
One man writing a book......would have CHANGED the whole country???? Heck, wierwille spent a lifetime and is an unknown. Rather than laud his efforts and his Lifelines........many of us, here at Greasespot Café, could easily put together wierwille's WTF-Lines.
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chockfull
Yes, between the vicster and da forehead, these guys truly missed their calling. I mean they should have been the head of the Westboro Baptist church denomination, with all that hate.
Rocky one of the things I struggle with talking about this period of time is all that hate against those who have a little different makeup with respect to identity and attraction. Whatever answers people think they are getting from scriptures on this topic, I guarantee you that God is not hate. Just the opposite, and the idea you are "loving" somebody by taking a stand and hating them for their own good is disingenuous at best and sheer hypocrisy at worst. From my perspective, if Cra1ey did return to his former lifestyle whatever that is (and I have no knowledge of what it is), found love and support and recovered from the insidious cult that is the Way, more power to him.
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